eric shin seki is gone. what took so long. thanks for getting up with us this saturday morning. the last full day of may. it's been a busy 24 hours of news. we want to get to as much of it as we can. we're going to begin with the unscheduled appearance president obama made. it came right after he met with eric shinseki. >> a few minutes ago secretary

shinseki offered me his resignation. i accepted it. he has worked hard to identify the problems with access to care, but as he told me had morning, the v.a. needs new leadership to address them. he does not want to be a distraction because his priority is to fix the problem and make sure our vets are getting the care they need. >> speculation on thursday had been that his time was running short. at that day's briefing, jay carney deflected questions about whether he still had the president's support. one day earlier than that on wednesday, preliminary report from the v.a.'s watchdog confirm ed the abuses taking place in phoenix where officials cooked the books to were only about three weeks instead of three months. the report also said that investigators were seeing similar problems at other v.a. hospitals all across the country. in a speech yesterday morning,

secretary shinseki said he started the process of firing top management and apologized to fell row veterans for the problems of the agency. within a few hours, he would be gone from his job. which mean it is will be up to someone else to try to fix decades of mismanagement that plagued veterans care in this country. problems that bush administration wasn't able to fix. you get the idea. this is a long-term problem. want to welcome this morning's panel sam stein, mike paska, host of hang up and listen at slate joy williams. and i just found out before the show that sam is a former student of mike's. this may or may not violate the ethics code. >> i owe him everything. you can have my pastry.

>> he taught you radio. >> which is why i'm not in radio. >> so let's look at this v.a. situation to start. there's a lot to talk about here. i guess i'm interested in what does this -- talk about the politics of this. it was a political question in terms of shinseki. then the red state democrats started peeling off. and president obama gave in. there are reports that suggest surprise, surprise, mr. obama didn't appreciate the pressure he was feeling to do this this. this was not a decision he wanted to make. it reminds me of the fall when the health care website came out and there was calls to get rid of kathleen sebelius. did this reveal anything about the president and his leadership style, his strategy, the fact it did take awhile to get to this point. did we learn anything about

president obama? >> i think what we learned, using the example you said for the health care rollout, he has real confidence in the people he picked. and he wants to standby them, he's loyal to them and while there may be problems, mismanagement issues, he's hesitant to just blame it all on them. because ultimately he's the person who picked them to lead. so it reveals a little bit about his loyalty to his team and allowing them to make huge mistakes. but also wanting to standby them and not be pressured by what is political motives to have someone falter. >> they have a disdain for the culture, the hair on fire, the quick reactionary culture of washington, d.c. the way when you talk to any of these aids on background, the way they describe it is the president wants to be thorough, he wants to think it through.

and that that is a better way to handle the situation. the problem with that is you end up allowing behavior to go unpunished. and i think in this case, there was a need pr accountability. the president got up there and was talking about these incredible problems at the v.a. with the computer system after he said shinseki was resign iin. the problems were there six years ago. so clearly the president should probably be more involved at that level. and i think his cool demeanor got him in trouble. >> a lot of the coverage about this, the coverage was will shinseki stay or go and the subset was does it even make a difference? at the same time, there is something to be said for when something like this happens, people look to the president to

take action to do something, and in some ways that's what the cabinets exist for. something big depose wrong, you make a statement by firing them. >> if you have an an executive branch and administer veterans affairs, it needs to be administered well. that's the biggest difference. he first of all looks at health care as part of his agenda and that defines him. what's going on with the veterans affairs, that's something that should be done, but it's not a defining agenda item. he looks at other scandals like the irs. who are the victim there is? some republicans claiming they weren't given tax exempt status. they feel a lot of sympathy for the veterans. i did notice your introyou used three proper names. carney, shinseki and obama. sometimes people have to go because the president needs to forge on. >> this is a managerial

exercise. i don't know what good it would have done on day three they said shinseki is gone. you still have to have a plan to reform the v.a. because if he's gone, it doesn't fix the problem. >> i wondered all week was obama making it clear, wouldn't be the worse thing if you said i want to leave. shinseki, i'm looking at this friday morning, how does he think he's possibly going to survive this? the one thing i come back to is how he got into the administration in the first place. if you remember in mid-august, when iraq is falling apart and people look back at his predictions about the troop levels and said he was not listened to. and so it became into office,

you kbot to find a place in the administration for him. he's very smart many iraq. what they had him do didn't have anything to do with policymaking. he may not have been cut out for this from the beginning. >> in talking about agencies and the policies we have across this country that have been broken for a long time and what is required to fix them may not just be a great manager. it's a combination of things. it's congress doing what they are supposed to do, highlighting the issue, changing antiquated systems. there are all of those things that need to go into fixing a system like the v.a. system. what he neglected to do is be that spokesperson or at least the administration didn't allow him to be that spokesperson to continue the service had he had already given before in talking about that we weren't ready and

doing the warning. if he would have been the administrator that was continuing to sound the alarm in the administration, letting him sort of run with that, i think it would have been a little different. >> i think it's difficult. when you listen to secretary gates, who will criticize the administration. he said he's complimented shinseki and it's a hard culture to get anything to change. it's a huge irony that one of the reasons he was dealing with this influx is because he wasn't listened to for the iraq war. i don't think it was even just rewarding a hero. he was a very competent person. i think it is quite possible even if he made mistakes in the optics, didn't get that right, but it is possible that this is way too big a left for even one heroic individual. >> the question now is who replaces him and we'll find out. you alluded to this. after shin seki, president obam

was not done. he was back in the briefing room and made more news. >> you haven't seen me enough today. one of jay's favorite lines is i have no personnel announcements at this time. but i do, and it's bittersweet. it involves one of my closest friends here in washington. in april jay came to me in the oval office and said he was thinking about moving on and i was not thrilled to say the least. but jay has had to wrestle with this decision for quite some time. >> no word what he plans to do next. josh ernest will take his place at the podium. every time there's a resignation at the white house, we look for the dark story in the corner, this is what really was, this seems on the surface like it was time to leave. i always look at jay carney and

i remember and i think of the mclaughlin group. i could never get my head around the idea this guy was giving official statements. it was a strange thing. the thing i saw, maybe we'll put this out there, but slate wrote this in response to yesterday's news about jay carney stepping down. jay carney's retiring, let's not replace him. his argument is basically u designed to stand in front of a room and not give the press answers to the questions you're asking. call this department. call that department. these things have become shows. i have never really heard anything that meaningful from jay carney. is it a valuable job? >> we have this debate probably every two months on whether or not the briefing itself is using. clearly you need a president secretary, but is the briefing

itself a useful exercise. it is a show in some respects. what you end up having is the front row, which is the tv personalities, they will all go in there and ask the same question because they need to feed the news of the day. you get the same question, basically the same answers. >> they are looking for the 15-second quote. >> however, and this is to reward the people in the back of the room, which i am one of them, there are a lot of people who have sort of off kilter questions, who want to talk about topics that aren't the news of the day. and that's a valuable outlet to have for people. >> do they get valuable answers from him? >> you aren't guaranteed the answers. it's up to you to try to figure out how to get the best information you can. we would be worse off if we didn't at least have an hour of the day to at least try. it's still viable to have the

briefing even though it's been a kir us is. >> i agree with my colleague. you can accomplish that privately one-on-one outside the television camera. >> that's what they used to do. >> it used to be done, but it wasn't on tv but the problem is they have an easier avenue of evasion which is they don't return your calls. >> and what we're seeing is not evasion. >> at least you have the chance to televise it. >> that goes to accountability, but wouldn't that also disenfranchise a number of outlets and the folks in the become of the room, the individuals that would not be able to build up that access. >> everyone kowtows to the television. jay carney made two mistakes, taking the job and doing it well. we as taxpayers pay a guy to not answer questions that we need answered. i know that press isn't elected,

but they serve a purpose to try to get answers and we put this guy out there and jay is doing what he is paid to do. he's just giving nonanswers, evasions, he just quotes all the nonanswers he gave on the shinseki thing. ridiculous nonanswers. >> in some respects, the nonanswers and evasion of the shinseki story became a story in its own right. when the president said he was sticking by shinseki last week and jay came to the briefing room and was pressed on whether the president stood by his words and jay could not answer that question. that became a story in a weird way. it showed that the administration had moved a little on shinseki. in fact, it came the next day. >> my brief stint in washington as a reporter, i did not play well with press secretaries. when i see a story like this, i am sympathetic. i wrote something she didn't like, they argued with me for 20

minutes. i wouldn't give in. they said give me your editor's number. i'll give you my parent's number too. that did not help. we have a few more thins to go over. we'll be right back. ll get it te with priority mail flat rate shipping. our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service.

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back at critics of how she handl handled attack in benghazi. politico received a copy and nbc news received its authenticity. those that exploit this tragedy over and over as a political tool minimize the sacrifice of those who served our country. i will not be part of the political slug fest on the backs of americans. hillary clinton didn't want to wait one day longer before starting to answer her republican critics on the matter

of benghazi. so nbc news confirmed that as part of this rollout of the book and specifically this chapter in it, kiki mclean has been tasked by team clinton. and former national security spokesman is apparently involved in this as well. so this is a -- we talk about these memoirs being a mid-career memoir. they are a little more cautious. this looks like a story they need to have down, it's very politically sensitive story. you're getting a glimpse here. >> no matter if she runs or not, this continued to be a part offer her legacy whether it's

arguing over on whether she did the best job, this is part of her legacy. so to write this book, we would be talking about the omission of it if there wasn't. and that would be the big conspiracy and other networks would go on for years. >> karl rove would have his theories. >> what i liked most, and i'm biassed in terms of my support for her, in that there's a difference between unanswered question and unlistened to answers. and the fact there was a panel, we did an investigation, i adopted all these reforms and yet this is not what we're talking about. there's still this conspiracy theory in the air. >> it's funny because the republicans on the committee are prone to be like we have this many unanswered questions. when they list the questions, you can go back and find that the answers already exist. so the big question i want to

ask secretary clinton is why are we in benghazi in the first place? we checked the transcript of clinton's testimony and they had asked her the question and answered it. >> you had google. >> they might not have liked the answer, but it's there. the other funny thing i want to throw in here is there's a fox news host who was tweeting about the v.a. scandal and this has been going on in six years. how come we missed this? because you have been obsessing about benghazi. we in the media choose what scandals we want to cover and one could argue that the amount of time and oxygen spent on benghazi and the little amount of time spent on the v.a. scandal as it was happening in realtime is showing our priorities. >> fox news apparently one of the interviews hillary clinton is going to be giving is to fox news. i don't mean to direct attention

to another network, but i want to keep an eye on that. donald sterling's lawsuit is not going to get that far. it was reported that he's suing the nba for a billion dollars. he filed a suit one day after former ceo steve balmer agreed to buy the team for $2 billion in negotiations with sterling's wife shelly. donald sterling was deemed mentally incapacitied. it means that any damages donald sterling might win would be paid if i the family trust, not the nba. mike, maybe you can translate. i was a little confused. shelly sterling got her husband declared mentally ine competent. >> if she gets the $2 billion.

all the legal experts, he doesn't seem to have a great case. but let's take a step back and consider a couple things. that the reason that they are able to sell the team is he's mentally incapacitied. so that's prompted the sale of the team. >> from a legal standpoint, wouldn't that be part of the lawsuit? saying these were illegally recorded. >> this criminal court it would matter. so this is the thing. what he's doing is he's going against a set of franchisees and e he signed away so many rights to own this team, to get this profit on investment. and i think the big message here, a good one is that the nba won't stand for this. another message is if you say something deeply racist, maybe if the lehman brothers had had

said that, maybe the company would still exist. it seems like a weird reward system. he's got more money than god. although his tax bill, he could pass it to his heirs would be half a billion of the trust. >> that's the other interesting thing. it sounds like a difference in how this is ultimately framed legally. if this is something that happened under duress, he would be exempt from the capital gains taxes. still a guy who in 1981 bought the team for $12 million. $2 billion, that's an incredible return on investment. does he deserve anything like that? thanks to the panel. other stuff to get to. we'll see you throughout the show. more news ahead this morning including michelle obama's new stand with congress. first how hcastration might

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there are many reasons why a state legislator and veteran is way ahead three days before the primary in iowa. but this has to be by far the biggest one. >> i'm joni erns. i know how to cut pork. >> mother, soldier, conservative. >> the latest poll shows ernst at 34%, but the real opponent on tuesday may be the number 35. if the winner of that primary doesn't hit that threshold, then the race will be thrown to what will be a wild state convention. the iowa race has serious ramifications in the battle for senate control. it's been held by tom harkin who is retiring this year. this is a wide open race. the first one like it in iowa

for decades. it swung hard to the gop in the 2010 midterms when terry branstad. the magic number for republicans is six nationally, that's the number of democratic seeds they need to pick up. if they pick off this iowa race, their path is going to become a lot easier. but will nominating joni make it harder? we'll take a look at this. >> joni will take aim at was wasteful spending and once she sets her sights on obamacare she's going to unload. >> that follow-up ad to the hog castration ad is the kind the tea party base eats up. it's no wonder she's rocketed to the top. but democrats who are poised to

nominate bruce brayly on tuesday will come across to general election as too extreme. sort of the way ken buck did when they lost senate races that the party should have won in 2012 and 2010. we got a preview of what the fall race will look like when republican candidates held their final debate and ernst had this to say. >> you wouldn't change the ad or the timing of it or anything? >> no. this unfortunate accident happened after the ad, but it does highlight that i want to get rid of repeal and obamacare and shows i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment. >> democrats were quick to point out that characterization of the shooting as an accident. it should also be pointed out she said it was a tragedy.

but that is a perfect demonstration. that back and forth of how democrats hope to cast their race this fall. she has unlikely allies on the republican side. the chamber of commerce is behind her. she has the packing of not just sarah palin but also mitt romney. yet we were able to get a producer to ask mitt romney why he thinks joni has been able to get sarah palin, the tea party and republican establishment all on the same side. >> we republicans are all the challengers, if you will, and we have different views about how to go after the big palace in washington, if you will. some tonight go over the front door, some through the windows. we have different approaches, but we're all battling against the establishment of barack obama and the democratic party. sarah palin and i, i think, line up on most issues, if not all issues. >> so could this end up being that 2014 race that continues the story line we saw in 2010

and 2012 where the gop ends up with a candidate that's so far out that there costs them their opportunity to take back the senate. with us we have a political columnist with the des moines register. i don't know about you. i'm having flashbacks to an earlier time of my life of mitt romney in iowa. but let me ask you this. i'm going to say something here that i'm going to make any political media consultant happy. we're hearing about the media constaultants in campaigns. they make a fortune off the percentages and really it's the grass roots stuff that matters. i look at this race in iowa from afar and i see joni who has come out of nowhere and is poised potential potentially to win this thing on tuesday. it's the ads. it's the hog ad. it's the gun ad. these things viscerally spoke to the tea party base. without those ads, she could have door to door campaigned for

five years and not win this thing. >> i don't think it's just the ads. when you look at the field of candidates, they have all come out of nowhere. there wasn't a single person in the republican race that -- i had heard of them, but most of the people in iowa hadn't heard of these people a year ago. this kind of ad introduces joni in a aleway that was attractive to the tea party, very attractive to the base of the republican party, which is who she needs to convince in this primary. joni stands to be the first woman that iowa has ever sent to washington. if she e gets past bruce in the fall. she really needed to define herself in a way in particular for the republican base that would be seen as tough and especially tough on conservative republican issues. and these ads really did that. >> so the second part of the story is what works in the

republican primaries, what works for the tea party does not necessarily u translate into working in the general election. so when i see an ad like that with the gun, her positions like iowa has gay marriage and she says she's for traditional marriage, defunding obamacare, right down the line i say is there a possibility here that this is a candidate who, as we saw in colorado, sharon engel, is this a candidate who could fit that mold? that many october we look up and republicans are saying we take back the senate. we're on the cusp in iowa. she says something that's so far out there that it cost them this race. >> i think that is certainly the situation in iowa we have had a party that's been splintered. the argument going on in the primary. the orgt we saw in the presidential primary in 2012

we're seeing that now. what candidate has the best chance in the fall. we need to have pro-life conservatives, people who will be champions for conservative values and it's that kind of candidate who will present the best contrast. others say we need somebody focused on fiscal policiepolici fixing on washington debt and deficit. those are the problems. and so then they point back to mitt romney who say it didn't work in 2012 and we nominated a candidate like that. so that's continuing to play out in iowa. now joni does have legislative experience. she's a state senator. she's the only candidate in the race who has the legislative experience. i think she can draw on that in the general election. and she also talks about herself as being a mother and a soldier. that's been a consistent refrain on the campaign trail. she will spend a lot more time on those types of attribute when is she's running against bruce. but those ads don't go away.

there are republicans who have raised concerns about how is she going to be able to transition to talk to suburban moms and other people who are maybe not going to be too impressed by the pistol-packing, hog castrating joni. >> there's the potential liability. i want to ask about her democratic opponent. republicans have touted what they call the 47% video. you have mitt romney out there, 47%. bruce who might be running against her was at a fundraiser with trial lawyers. did not know he was being taped and mocking chuck grassley who would take over the ju dish committee. he says you might have a farmer from iowa who never went to law school serve as the next chair of the committee. he's take an lot of heat for this because this is a farm state. is that something that you think is going to haunt him in the fall or something that's in the

spring and is done? >> no, it's absolutely going to keep haunting bruce in the fall. he has apologized for that and said that he and chuck grassley have a great relationship and he really didn't mean to disparage farmers. there was another problem that it highlighted his trial lawyer background and also it showed him kind of snickering to special interests behind the backs of iowans who sent him to washington. so he has -- he recognizes that was a really bad image for him and he has apologized for that, but it's not going to stop the republican candidates and special interest groups from bringing that back over and over again. that's one of the reasons why joni may appeal to republicans. she does have a true farm background. some of her more recent ads with the hog castration grew up walking beans that even a city

girl like me has done. so those are the kinds of things that she's going to emphasize into the fall. >> congratulations, we just set the basic cable record for references to hog castration in one segment. my thanks to you for joining us. we'll be checking back in. my interview with the congressional candidate with more life experience than any other. let's say he would qualify for a birthday shoutout. the other big primary is the biggest scandal of the 2014 campaign season. the most bizarre one, that's next. ♪

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people knew beforehand about the images of rose cochran that were taken on easter sunday. the district attorney left open the possibility that more people could be charged. people other than clayton kelly, the blogger arrested for the break in. he's a supporter of cochran's challenger, chris mcdaniel. it's a fact that came to light as soon as he was arrested. and when several other mcdaniel supporters were arrested and accused of conspiracy, the campaign sought to use the episode to tarnish mcdaniel. >> it just gets worst. now his friends charged with felonies. the mcdaniel scandal spreads. had enough? >> mcdaniel has repeatedly denied any role in all of this and pointed out that the campaign knew about kelly and the photographs for two weeks before going to authorities. and this week mcdaniel released a new ad firing back. >> you have probably seen the negative attack ads.

newspapers called them shameless, i called them outrageo outrageous, but nobody said change in washington, d.c. was going to be easy. >> there's no doubt this has been a huge distraction. senator cochran's team sees this as a ticket to victory. the tea party has swung and missed a lot this primary season. cochran is the last incumbent. the money has poured into the state from tea party groups opposing cochran. in a new poll shows mcdaniel leading by only 5 points. mcdaniel pulls this off on tuesday it could cause headaches for national republicans, especially with the nursing home story still unfolding. already the chairman of the committee bankrolls in key senate races refused to say if that committee will back mcdaniel as the party's nominee. do they have one final major upset? here to talk about it we have

dave weigel, he's been reporting on all of this from mississippi this week. don't be fooled by the new orleans saints helmet behind him. dave, let me start with had. i know polling is not always reliable in mississippi and the polling that's out there is not always from the most reputable polling sources. there are the numbers that came out yesterday and we have seen similar numbers over the last few weeks. 45-40, cochran over mcdaniel. 89% of people have heard about the scandal. so basically it's out there. i'm looking at this and i'm saying the cochran people think it's the thing that's going to cause the backlash that saves th thim him. i'm not sure the voters are buying this at all. >> it might have broke in a bit too early for it to swing the race. it's saturated and voters are aware of it, but when i was talking to voters at campaign stops for both candidates, it's

seen as sort of an embarrassing side show, which it technically is that's not their votes. it was hard to find somebody who really thought chris mcdaniel was behind this. if he has been on the air least since october, his reputation was not bad going into the scandal. even e though it's never a good situation to be in when a campaign ad can slap a big arrested sign on a photo of you shaking somebody's hand. i didn't find many people who said that was going to factor that into their vote. that reveals that they think they can lose. >> what about the flip side? we have been trying to figure out what exactly politically speaking would the motive have been? what were they trying to prove? as best i can come up with, it it seems it's a theme of cochran, 42-year veteran abandoned mississippi and he's even abandoned his bedridden wife and there's hipts about an

aid. just in talking to people down there, is that something that people are talking about? is this resinating in a way? >> the aspect of him being in washington too long resinates more than anything. what they are trying to bring up was a rumor that i think more passionate activists wanted out there. cochran, his wife has been in the nursing home pr more than a decade. there was an effort to nudge that into the conversation. what is this guy doing with an ek executive stapt, who is around his age. she's welcomed along. but there were media outlets that were running stories about how cochran uses an apartment that she owns in washington when he's living there, that he doesn't spend enough time in mississippi. >> are they trying to say he's

cheating on his wife? let me ask you about the other sort of approach. i saw this in your article as well. this is a guy, 42 years in washington, this is a guy with a lot of clout who delivered a lot of money for the state of mississippi and the state relies on federal money. you'd never know that from some of the rhetoric that politicians like to use. i've seen this before. it was all about the money he brought to massachusetts. does that mean anything in a mississippi republican primary with cochran saying i got you this project, i got you this on the water, does it mean anything? >> the problem is who is the voter who is passionate about that is the republican primary voter. who the voter that associates cochran with a role in the senate that can move money back. somebody who remembers what he did in 2005 after hurricane katrina certainly. but someone who reasons he might

get more power. you're asking for a certain sort of transactional knowledge of politics and there's going to be some of that. i don't think he's going to poll less than 40%. how many of the republican voters in a place like mississippi fairly new to the party. they were always conservative. they jumped in now. how many of them really care about that? he's in a better position than richard lugar was, but so many think just because he's been there for this long and because the state hasn't completely turned around, why should they reward a guy who is going to bring more money to the state? why shouldn't they replace him with somebody who is more combative against barack obama? why not give it to a fighter instead of someone who brings money but doesn't make their money better. >> i feel like i have seen this story line before. when they start running on experience and that's trouble. we have to slip a break in.

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at&t is building you a better network. there are more states voting in primaries than in any other day this year. we talked about iowa and mississippi. we have sam stein back joined by joy williams. joy, i'll start with you. we're talking about mississippi in the last segment. my hunch is cochran might lose this thing on tuesday. are you surprised? the whole story of the season has been the tea party keeps losing. >> it's a possibility certainly. and it's a possibility if his campaign can't continue to focus on their base and make sure they turn people out for a midterm election. so there's a strong possibility that he may lose but then we step out of the general election. truth be told, i don't really

follow republican primaries that much. >> this is one democrats are keeping a bit of an eye on because they see a chance if mcdaniel wins on tuesday. >> but in terms of the democrats being able to support across the way, he's not with the movement. >> democrat strategist, do you look at her and say ken buck, all these tea party candidates who have blown winnable races. when you look at joni ernst, how do you size her up? >> she shows the power of advertising. she had the two most iconic ads. one was the hog castration. one was shooting the obamacare law. they also showed the downside. you go shooting legislation when there's massive gun violence that causes headaches.

the one thing that makes me think she might have a difficult time is her debate performance. we were talking about in this debate, she said two contradictory things. i believe the shat should have a right to define marriage as they want and two i believe the federal government should outlaw gay marriage. there's a lack of polish there that's sort of been obscured by the great ads. >> states have the rights to break. i want to get dave back in. tuesday, i'll go out on. a limb. i say mcdaniel wins on tuesday. what do you think? >> i think he can narrowly pull it off. there are other people in the race you need to correct 50%. there's a possibility it's a 49-49 and it's a run-off. >> we want it. >> it's amazing. we saw the story break two weeks ago. we thought that was it. this guy is still in it and this

tea party could be causing real havoc. we'll check in with the panel later. lots more ahead this morning. we'll talk to a candidate running for congress who worked on social security back in the roosevelt administration. he's running this year. stay with us. scover card. hey! so i'm looking at my bill, and my fico® credit score's on here. we give you your fico® score each month for free! awesomesauce! wow! the only person i know that says that is...lisa? julie?! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. but they don't yet know we're a family. we're right where you need us. at the next job, next adventure or at the next exit helping you explore super destinations and do everything under the sun.

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in the numbers game, should age ever be one of them? that's next. ri (laughs) it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with wholesome ingredients and irresistible taste, no wonder it's the only one cats ask for by name.

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that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ tuesday's primary run-off in texas tackled the first in 2014. republican congressman ralph hall was beat out. he wasn't just any incumbent. at 91 he's the oldest sitting member in the history of the u.s. house of representatives, a factor that became a major factor in the race. >> do you think age is a fair issue here? >> sure it is. i think that's something that

the voters are concerned about. it's certainly something that we haven't focused on with respect to our campaign. i talked about his tenure and the fact he's been there too long. but voters raise that issue and it's fair for them to consider. >> it wasn't just in that one race in texas. age was the subject of this pointed attack of hillary clinton from karl rove on monday. >> we are 20 years past the point at which bill clinton was elected president. in american politics there's a sense you want to be new, you don't want to be too familiar, you want to be fresh, you don't want to be something that's old and stale. >> with age comes experience. hillary clinton would be the second oldest president ever inaugurated if she runs and wins in 2016. she would also bring to the table two terms in the white house, senator from new york, secretary of state, pretty

impressive resume. clinton made experience the center piece of her 2008 campaign and ended up losing to a man who was a state legislator just a few years earlier. a poll found more than a third of voters say they would be less likely to vote for a candidate if that candidate is in their 70s. americans have only elected one president ever who was older than 70. that was in 1984 when ronald reagan sought a second term at the age of 73. that first presidential debate americans were alarmed when reagan seemed confused and lost for words, suddenly age became the issue in that race. but in the next debate, he diffuses the fears with one of the sharpest lines in presidential debate history. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.

>> when even your opponent is laughing, you know you got a line off. he had no problem coasting to a landslide, but age continues to be a factor. when he jokes about their age, did 72-year-old john mccain and bob dole ran for president. there is one candidate who is embracing his advanced age at 101 years old, joe newman is making a run as a write-in candidate. his campaign website asks at what age does a person no longer have a concern for society? at what age does a person no longer have a responsibility to act when acting may help? he's running as progovernment independent who wants to expand medicare and raise the minimum wage. his program was called social security. joining us to discuss the campaign whether age should be a factor is joe newman.

here at the table is l. joy williams and mike peska. joe, i will start with you. we introduce you by saying you worked on the rollout of social security and yet here we are 75 years later and social security is still obviously a very sensitive political topic in had country. i imagine you have more institutional experience with this issue. you have a perspective that nobody in american politics has. >> well, i wouldn't say i'm the only one, but i have been with them long enough to recognize the importance of it and why it is necessary for us to think deeply on ways and methods that we're going to be able to prolong it and make it available for the people who are much younger than i am. and that they are not going to be concerned there won't be social security when they get here because it is an important

factor. >> so let me just ask you the simple question, 101 years old and you seem in great shape. why at 101 years old decide to run for congress? what's behind the campaign? >> you're disappointed with what's going on and feel if you can make a change, you should. and number one, they say that name recognition will bring a lot of attention and we thought that perhaps that i'm 101 can still walk and chew gum at the same time and have ideas and think about solutions that i might have something to offer. and the question is not am i the greatest person, but do i think i'm better than what is there now or can i offer better solutions. or solutions that are not being

offered. >> let me ask you this. you're running for congress. this would apply to any older candidate running for congress where when you're in congress one of the most important things in terms of being effective is seniority. it's racking up time, it's climbing the ranks on the committee, maybe being able to chair a committee or get a real position of influence. it really only comes with time. it's just the way the system is structured. what would you say to a voter who looks at not just you but any older congressional candidate and says, i like that person, i personally have no problem with their age, that's not an issue, but i worry that because of their age, they are not going to be able to get the seniority they need to get to be good at this job. >> are you interested in solutions? are you interested in somebody that's going to look at the problem, think about it, talk with others and say how do we get to a solution? and if that older person is

going to be able to contribute something towards a solution to the problem, would you prefer that person or would you discard them because he's old and you feel he has nothing to add? this is what you have to determine as a voter. which person is going to help resolve the problem that our society is facing. >> i want to bring the panel in here and just to talk about how we in politics talk and think about age when it comes to candidates. i want to play this. this was in 2008. this is a web video that a democratic strategist put together attacking john mccain. this is how one democrat thought to go after john mccain. >> john mccain is older than fm radio. >> john mccain is older than the golden gate bridge. >> and the lincoln tunnel. >> mccain is older than the periodic table of elements. all right, not really, but he is older than plutonium.

>> i have seen variations of this about old celebrities. bob dole, letterman drived him nuts with old age jokes. is this fair? >> i think in the texas race, it it wasn't an age issue, it was a tea party issue. that was also 19,000 to 21,000 was the vote. it was a low turn out. in each individual race, there was an individual story. but in general, i think if anything, average or median age is 60 and the house is just under 60. and we are an ageing population. so when reagan was elected as a 73-year-old in 1984, america is a lot older. but still you talk about the school lunch program. how many congressmen have school age kids?

i do think we are a little too old when it comes to our congress and we have age limits, but there are lower limits, you have to have at least 25 and 30 to be a senator. >> joy, let me ask you this. we have a couple polling bits. are you less likely to support a candidate many their 70s? in 2007, democrats, 60%, republicans, 42%, the context there is mccain looked like he was going to be the nominee. they asked the question a few weeks ago. democrats, 44%, republicans, 32%. i don't know when you look at voters expressing that, what do you suspect they are saying? is there concern about the faculties in their 70s? or is it more that's somebody who had their turn. we don't want somebody who is entrenched. somebody that's been around that

long, 42 years is long enough. what is driving that? >> we can't look at these poll numbers in a vacuum. like you mentioned in reviewing them, they are connected to what was going on at the time. so who were the candidates, what were the issues at the time. so if you're going to use age, in tying it to something, it's been too long. so we need new ideas instead of saying he's just old. so it's great for comedy perspective to talk about john mccain during the race that he was older than this or older than dirt. it's funny, but you still have to tie it to something. so it wasn't just he's old, it was he's not only old, but he is stuck in this old tradition of politics or old way of doing things.

>> i just want to get joe newman in quickly. joe, just final question to you. are you enjoying this? are you having fun campaigning? do you like being a candidate? are you having fun? >> yes, i'm having fun and in response to what was said, that's the truth. i repeat are we looking for solutions? if we have an old person who is thinking young, isn't that better than a young better who is thinking old? >> i've spent most of my life being a young person thinking old. i get your point. i appreciate you taking the time this morning. my thanks to joe newman. lots of news still ahead. including she's done the 40-yard dash, all in an effort to get american kids to move more and eat healthier at school. michelle obama's toughest challenge yet. she's taking on congress.

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you might recall the usda called the ketchup packets as a vegetable. only e three years ago they declared pizza to be a vegetable. they asked the tomato paste be considered a vegetable which is how i used to make the argument. my entire diet is probably due for an overhaul by michelle obama. she is why congress was trying to get that pizza provision passed in the first place. republicans in congress were fighting back against o proposal to make school lunches healthier. it's one of the signature issues

that the first lady championed while in office. it's an effort that showed signs of success. in february the center for disease control released a study that showed it made a sharp decline in the past decade. getting kids to eat better and move more. a cause that's brought her under near constant attack from critics in congress trying to roll back nutrition standards in schools. legislation that would allow more sodium than what served kids every day and fewer fruits and vegetables that's been passed out of committee and take up the bill. michelle isn't going to -- you don't have been v to be a nutritionist to know counting pizza. she plans to campaign against the legislation as part of her let's move initiative. it's not just congress. some schools involved are pushing back too. students don't want to eat the healthy food. the fruits and vegetables just

get tossed in the trash and fruits and vegetables only wiepd up overflowing the trash bins. the first lady has been an advocate. up until now she's steered clear. what will we see in the coming weeks as she fights back against congress trying to gut the program she feels most passionate about? here to talk about it we have host of "top chef" who has traveled and worked with the first lady as part of the campaign. he's the chef and owner of restaurants in new york. he's also executive chef and was on the move to school task force. joy williams is still with us. i will start up in boston. a couple things i want to get the expert chefs to respond to. the arguments the schools are

making. we put him on the trays and the kids don't eat them. they have a slice of pizza and throw the fruits and vegetables in the tray. how valid is that argument in your mind? >> 90% of the schools are doing well with the new nutrition standards. they have also had four years to actually look at the new bill and start to implement some of the changes. i find it somewhat of a funny argument. i have children and they would happily play video games all day and not go to school at aum. we have to be the adults. we have to tell our children what to eat and teach them good nutrition. if we start early and we start getting kids used to eating vegetables at an early age, those habits will stay with them for the rest of their lives. so i don't think we should allow children to make those kinds of decisions. >> what about the idea of

parents making the call? one of the objections is i'm the parent. i'm going to decide what my kid eats. i don't need the government saying this is the only meal you can have. anything to that argument? >> a lot of the kids in america, they rely on the school lunch program. it's the best meal of the day. why should we be throwing the fast food at them. why not give them a healthy lunch and it helps them during the day. >> what do you think? in my elementary, middle school experience, it's not very healthy. what do you think they should be presented with many their school lunch? >> wellness in the school is where we work in the school

cafeterias. we offer salad bars too. >> here's what i meant. i'm an idiot. healthy protein, chicken? >> it could be chicken, a vegetarian chili, something like that. but if we're going to put out these ham burgers that have a lot of fillers in them. when i read the ingredients on some of the stuff that's put into the school cafeterias in the past, you can go to a mcdonalds and it's very similar. you want to be able to give the kids something that has just nutritious, real food and start cooking again. >> is there a role for a meet me in the middle thing where you can have the slice of pizza but also the stewed peas?

>> what's really at stake here. we want to reward people who give them money. this is a struggle to make sure that big food stays in the cafeteria. that's all this is. once this program gets fully impleme implemented. it can't be rule rolled back. this is his way of starting to peel back at this program and completely gut it. when asked if he wanted to repeal the program, his response was not with this bill. that's very telling. that's what's going on here. this isn't about giving the kids whole grains or if pizza is a vegetable. >> i completely agree.

this has nothing to do with what is best for the students that we're providing services for. we're not making policy about what's best for the child. we're doing it off of political gain. if government is providing resources and money to be able to provide food, we need to make sure collectively that it is wholesome and nutritious. that's not to say we can't have those things, but we need to make sure there's a baseline and we're not just continuing the problem of contributing to obesity in children. >> they were saying pizza can be there, i would trade my ice cream for a second slice of piz pizza. we have to squeeze a break in. i have a couple more questions. i'm trying to figure this out.

a point that tom raised. stick around. we'll get to it after this. we grow new beginnings, and better endings. grand gestures, happier happy hours. so let's gro something greater with miracle-gro. what will you grow?

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my parade of food ignorance continues and i'm trying to learn. tom was making this point in the last segment about the financial interests that these big food manufacturers and makers processed foods. the financial interest they have in schools selling their products. when we talk about the healthy stuff with the whole grains, if schools are going to rely on that, where is it coming from? >> the meat comes from u.s. commodities. so there's money that goes to buy commodities. they could give more money to the kmcommodities so they could get better protein. they have to deal with those commodities and send it to a processer to cheapen the food and we're back to that again.

i think a lot of that food is coming from some of the big corporations. but i think what's happening now is they want to bring back vending machines into the schools, which have been taken out that provides soda and junk food and chips and things and so in a lot of schools that i have seen where the kids will be getting a free lunch, it will be a fast food chain inside the school and the kids are going to that. that money is going to school. if they are saying that the schools are getting money, how can we take away the money for the schools. why can't the government invest in the schools? we're talking about getting -- it's an obesity ep epidemic that we have. since the '80s when they started taking money away from schools for food and education, our obesity levels went up. but our rank has declined in math and science and reading worldwide. we're below standard.

>> in the break there, helpfully explain the difference between a stove and an oven. but that brought up a point in the break, i probably would have benefitted from some sort of remedial class in school that would teach me the basics of cooking. in terms of teaching people how to cook their own food, what's the state now in public education in getting kids those skills going forward? >> there isn't. home ec is gone. there are programs that aren't done properly to address that. but you have to understand the link between good nutrition and education. i think good nutrition in the schools, breakfast programs, lunch programs, after school programs, they are as important as desks and pencils and school books and teachers. without preparing a kid to learn

through good nutrition, you are not going to prepare their brains to learn. there's so much information about brain science and the synopsis created through good nutrition. at a certain point it closes off. the idea of nutrition is so important. and obesity and diseases associated with obesity and poor diet is costing the country $180 billion a year. i'm not sure why we're shortchanging the program. the president asked for an additional $10 billion to fund the school lunch program. it got watered down. so this was already slashed. the president accommodated some people, conservatives and watered down the program to begin with. so they want to go back and water it down some more.

if you look at what they are trying to do with the affordable care act, there was no way of rolling it back. the same thing is happening here. >>. tom, really interesting stuff there. really appreciate you taking the time here this morning. still ahead this morning, he's interviewed among many others. this morning this celebrity icon is here to answer my questions about the weekend news. n help me with frog protection? yeah, we help with fraud protection. we monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. wow! you're really looking out for us. we are. and if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. just to be clear, you are saying "frog protection" right? yeah, fraud protection. frog protection. fraud protection. frog. fraud. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. we're totally on the same page. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. fraud protection. get it at discover.com

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you need to see this. show 'em the curve. ♪ do you know what this means? the greater the curvature, the bigger the difference. [sci-fi tractor beam sound] ...sucked me right in... it's beautiful. gotta admit one thing... ...can't beat the view. ♪ introducing the world's first curved ultra high definition television from samsung. things that are smooth. things that are waxed. >> on that day back in 1985 that lucky $25,000 pyramid contestant did it in a shocking 43 seconds and the celebrity that helped

get her there was mr. dick cavot and he's right here now. we have a special celebrity spot on contestants row with his name on it. among his challengers is a former "jeopardy" contestant. the season two premier of up against the clock is next, stay with us. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees.

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basketball. this is sam stein. and he used to appear on dick clark's $25,000 pyramid. this is his first time in the hot seat on morning cable. but this is a big deal. please welcome dick. right now, the host of up against the clock, steve kornacki. >> thanks, bill walsh. and to everyone out there at home thank you for tuning in and welcome back. it's been a long off season but we're ready o launch the second season of up against the clock. and today e we do so with a special celebrity guest. dick cavot. i have to ask you, how does the experience of being on up clens against the clock compare? >> it's a little duller. but i stopped them.

but i love doing that show. it was great fun. i have no business being here. >> you absolutely do. as a veteran of the tv era when they used microphones like this, we have to have you. >> i famously said on one of my shows, you should do nothing but politics. and it bores me. abc left it in because it was against a left winger, but i have been in a play and haven't read a paper in three months. if you ask anything harder than name a recent president, i'm screwed. >> if you saw any of the action last season, you know how this works. we have a few twists. this is a fast paced quiz. we'll play for three rounds. each of them 100 seconds long.

questions are worth 100 points in the first round. you can ring in at any time but you listen penalized for wrong answers. here's where the twists come in. there are two special bonus questions scattered in the questions i have. the first is in a round one. another celebrity guest without risking anything. the other bonus will be in the second round. we're calling this the use it or lose it bonus. more on that when we come to it. our contestants will be playing not just for victory today but also for a chance to play in our tournament of champions. but contestants to have any chance of qualifying for that, you have to first win today. as always i will implore our live studio audience. please no outbursts. contestants put your hands on your buzzers. we'll start the first round of

the new season with this. after his much publicized interview with brian williams. >> edward snowden. >> incorrect. he was told by whom on wednesday to quote man up and come back to the united states. >> secretary of state john kerry. >> 100 points. sam stein on the board. in the wake of the california shooting, a proposal to video tape gun sales was introduced by what major midwest city mayor. >> rahm emanuel. >> 100 points. >> am i dominating here? >> president obama announced tuesday that he plans to withdraw american troops from afghanistan by when? >> 2016. >> that is correct. 100 points for sam. on wednesday paul ryan told a gathering of republicans flight attendants mistook him. >> anthony weiner. >> that's correct.

stop the clock, sam. that's the video bonus trigger. i got some exciting news for you. because you answered that question right, you will have a chance to add more points to your score. we asked to read a famous political quote. all you have to do is identify who said it and you'll receive an extra 100 points. there's no penalty for guessing. take a look at our monitor for the first video bonus question. >> chris matthews here with this week's up against the clock quote. who ended his presidential campaign at the 1980 democratic national convention with these words. for all those who cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die. >> you have 5 seconds. >> that would be senator ted kennedy. >> that's correct. 100 extra points for sam. restart the clock. the prospects for immigration reform passing seemed to dim this week when the reelection campaign of this top

congressional republican claimed the bipartisan. >> eric cantor. >> it gives illegal aliens a free ride. 100 pints. when the national spelling bee ended in a tie thursday night it was the first -- >> 1962. >> incorrect. i will complete the question. it was the first time co-winners were named since 1962. who was vice president in 1962. >> dick cheney. >> incorrect. >> lbj. >> 100 points. that takes us to the end of round one. you hear the loud horn. sam stein is in the lead with 400. but good news for the others, 200-point round coming up. you can make it up in a hurry. >> good. >> let's put 100 seconds on the clock. >> can i get a phone book? >> let's keep the game going.

begins with this. a complaint about lack of transparency was filed by the white house press pool this week after a secret launch that president obama -- >> secretary clinton. >> incorrect. i'll complete the question. >> i keep doing that. >> the secret launch that president obama and hillary clinton shared was revealed by this magazine. >> sam cannot ring in again. >> "the week." >> incorrect. it was "people." joe biden headlined the democratic national committee fundraiser wednesday at the home of this prominent billionaire and founder of the next jen superpac. >> tom stier. >> a restrictive medical marijuana program was signed into law in minnesota this week by this democratic governor. >> sam? >> dayton. >> that's correct.

>> were you popular in high school? >> if the purported agreement to have steve balmer by the los angeles clippers goes through, he would join paul allen. in becoming the former executive to own a professional sports team. name one of the current two teams? >> the trail blazers. >> we also would have accepted the seahawks. >> mitch mcconnell, there's no connection between obamacare and this, the name of his state's health insurance program. >> connect. >> stop the clock. that is our use it or lose it bonus, sam. >> that's awesome. >> that means you have a chance to double what you just won to scoop up an extra 200 points but this one is not risk free. i have a follow-up question to the one you just answered. it's related in some way and worth 200 points if you can answer it it correctly. but if you're wrong, you will lose the 200 points you just won or you can pass.

you won't lose any points or gaining any. i have the bonus question here. will you use it or lose it? >> i'll use it. >> is connect was implemented in kentucky over the objections of the republican state legislature under this democratic governor? >> steve beshear. >> we'll accept that. one final question. the scandal surrounding the v.a. made its way into a tv ad this week targeting this senator who in 2008 became the first -- incorrect, who in 2008 became the first democrat to win a senate seat in his state since the 1970s. >> oh, i know it. >> disregard. it was senator mark begich. end of round two. sam stein, 800. but these questions, this is the

ph.d. level. this is 300 points each. we'll put 100 seconds on the clock. we're going to decide the game right here. lights will dim. you're welcome to compete with this question. boxing champion was elected as the mayor of what major ukrainian city? >> kiev? >> 300 points for mike. legislation pending in this southern state is signed into law the state will become the last in the nation to repeal bans on liquor sales. >> south carolina. >> it's pending there. 300 points. . on wednesday this pennsylvanian became the sixth member of congress to voice his support for gay marriage. >> charlie dent. >> in a press conference thursday morning, john boehner aroused controversy when he said he's not qualified to address

what topic? >> climate change. >> that's correct. 300 points. the house voted last thursday night to spend an additional $19.5 million to bolster a national database used to block gun sales by certain criminals and maintain by what agency? >> mike? >> bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. >> the fbi? >> that's correct. a huge swing there. in a twitter campaign the washington redskins asked fans to tweet at this democratic senator. >> harry reid. >> they did and it backfired. attendees at the republican leadership conference currently being held in new orleans heard a speech thursday night from this star. >> phil robert son. >> when its governor signed it into law, the minimum wage was raised to $9.25. >> in michigan. >> it's not enough. sam stein with a record

shattering 2300 points. it's the first win on the second season of up against the clock. tell him what he's won. >> i never liked him. >> as our champion, your name will be engraved using the finest sharpie ink on the up against the clock gold cup. you'll also receive a dvd copy of the 1988 film "cocoon 2." and you'll get to play in our jackpot round for today's grand prize, a $50 gift certificate to quick meal food cart. the only street meat vender in the greater area operated by a former chef of the russian tearoom. to win that quick meal cart meal

and the dvd autographed. it's cocoon 2 dvd. here it is. the department of veteran affairs, which eric shinseki stepped down from yesterday, became a cabinet level department during whose presidency? >> geez, eisenhower? >> i'm sorry, it was george h.w. bush. you do not win the cocoon 2 dvd or the meal voucher but with a score like that, you are going to be in prime contention for the tournament of champions, i can already tell. congratulations on that. mike and dip, thank you for playing. >> people my age need three minutes to access the answer. >> good news for you, because we're giving you the home edition so you can play at home whenever you want. fun for kids, for adults, people of all ages. it is also available on cd-rom. what do we know now that we didn't know last week? our answers right after this. [ male announcer ] schlepping kids around can be a lot of work.

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final thought. we had a very exciting record-setting season of "up against the clock." you've done the "25,000 pyramid" and "up against the clock." how did i compare against dick clark? >> your hair is better, you're very articulate and he endured things from me like he'd say our next guest came all the way from florida. the next question, how about show business and a boy in nebraska. >> i appreciate that. the champion, 2300 points, that is the record. >> thank you. i learned how kind dick is for letting me win. >> tell him the ones i wished you the answer to. >> i was just hitting the

buzzer. >> i have to say we gave -- mike was on "jeopardy" in 2006, 2007 and we had a whole elaborate thing. what was the question if you won? >> it was named two people who have won an oscar for acting and had a number one pop single. that's sort of entertainment. >> you got one of them, sinatra. >> i wrote sinatra and wrote streisand. time is running out, you can't erase it. it was streisand. also bing crosby and jamie foxx, they have all been on the show. >> the way i'm going i would have said hubert humphrey and his wife. >> i'm sorry to add to your game show tragedy. that is the season premiere of "up against the clock." i'd like to thank everyone for getting up and thank you for joining us today. join us tomorrow, sunday morning at 8:00 when we will meet the

woman trying to turn texas blue. first, coming up next is melissa harris-perry. the legislative effort misplacing the constitutional rights of millions of americans. we'll see you right here tomorrow morning at 8:00. thanks for getting up.

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something to better someone. to better you. to better america. ♪ oral-b. made in the usa. this morning, my question. when does an act of violence feel like a terror attack? plus, the first lady in a messy food fight. and remembering dr. maya angelou. but first, this week how millions of americans found their access at risk. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. five years ago this morning, dr. george tiller was attending services at his church in wichita, kansas. dr. tiller ran a women's health care clinic in wichita as a pracng