omething... something to better someone. to better you. to better america. ♪ oral-b. made in the usa. this morning, my question. when does an act of violence feel like a terror attack? plus, the first lady in a messy food fight. and remembering dr. maya angelou. but first, this week how millions of americans found their access at risk. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. five years ago this morning, dr. george tiller was attending services at his church in wichita, kansas. dr. tiller ran a women's health care clinic in wichita as a practicing physician of almost

40 years and he was widely known as one of the few doctors in the country to provide termination services for women in the final trimesters of pregnancy. even though these late-term abortions are extremely rare, they have been heavily targeted by anti-abortion groups. and as one of the few physicians known to provide this service, tiller too was a target. despite years of protests, dr. tiller continued to do his work. despite extremists bombing his medical facility in 1986, dr. tiller continued to do his work. despite an assassination attempt in 1993, dr. tiller continued to do his work. but then five years ago today on may 31st, 2009 -- >> now we turn to the shooting death of a doctor in wichita, kansas, named george tiller. he had long been a target of anti-abortion demonstrators. >> after weathering years of attacks at his wichita home and abortion clinic, dr. george tiller was killed in his church. >> dr. tiller was not doing his work that morning.

dr. tiller was handing out the church bulletin in the lobby of the reformation lutheran church at the start of sunday services. an armed anti-abortion extremist walked into the church, shot dr. tiller and killed him. within days of dr. tiller's murder, his medical facility was closed. last year after learning that women in her community would have to drive 200 miles to access aabortion, julie burkehat decided to reopen the clique. with the clinic open just over a year, the threat to those doing the work continues. let us take a look at an msnbc.com original report. >> that's what gives me the butterflies in my stomach is i think that some people are going to show up who might be supportive, might not. >> dr. george tiller became the target. >> he'd endured decades of protests and attack. >> in the past the clinic has been bombed. tiller had been shot by a woman

demonstrator outside his clinic. >> it's difficult when you have people living in your community who actively work to destroy what you do. >> this is the first murder of an abortion doctor in the united states in more than a decade. >> by a gunman in his church. >> dr. tiller's clinic was closed down after his murder. it has been vacant in wichita ever since. >> but i don't want it to be that way forever. we're stronger together if we stand up for women's rights. >> yeah, so when i walk around the building and in the building, i'm constantly reminded of dr. tiller. i think about him a lot. this is dr. tiller when he was in the navy. those are nice photos of him. after dr. tiller was murdered in may of 2009, his clinic was

closed until we reopened it a year ago. we are happy to meet our one-year mark. part of our mission is to make sure that people understand that if you live in this part of the country, you know, women need abortions here just like women need abortions wherever. and that we want to be open and accessible to people. which is a little scary, because i'm sure you saw the protesters out at our gate, you know, and they try to harass us, intimidate us and they would like to see us fail. they track our movements, our vendors, our patients. some of the anti-choice protesters have come to my house. they had a sign that they had right here and it said "where's your church?" i'm former boss, dr. george

tiller, was murdered in his church. the interpretation is not good. it's we're coming to kill you. >> she receives death threats. her boss was murdered for doing this work. still, julie burkhart shows up to do her job. she does not believe women should have to drive 200 miles to access termination services. she is willing to risk her life to ensure women have access. but even as she confronts enormous risk to do her work, lawmakers across the country are working overtime to make it increasingly difficult to have an abortion, especially in the south. wednesday oklahoma governor mary fallin signed a bill requiring clinic physicians to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals. and louisiana governor bobby jindal has declared his intent to sign a law after it passed the legislature last week. that makes six states and likely a seventh with an admitting privileges law in effect. laws that make it extremely difficult for clinics to stay

open. now, if, like me, you are not a medical doctor or hospital administrator, these laws, these admitting privileges may sound basically innocuous but it's not as simple as the name suggests. some hospitals allow only those who live in state to get privileges. due to concerns about their safety, some doctors who provide terminations services in clinics make the decision not to live in the same areas as the clinics. instead they live in a different state and fly in and out for work. some require doctors to admit a certain number of patients to the hospital each year in order to get privileges, but abortion is a safe, medical procedure. so safe that less than 0.3% of patients experience complications that require hospitalization. on thursday, a doctor testified against an admitting privileges law passed last summer in wisconsin telling the judge that he had been trying to get admitting privileges for months, but could not because he hasn't had to admit a patient to the hospital in a decade. if those doctors can no longer

provide abortions, what choice is left for women? in the south, it's an increasingly marginal one. see this group of states? admitting privileges have now been passed into law in four of these states. texas, oklahoma, mississippi and alabama. and as we mentioned earlier, louisiana is expected to follow soon. although they have been blocked by the court pending appeal in two, mississippi and alabama, if the laws survive, those challenges, the number of clinics in this region could drop from an estimated 38 to 11. 11 clinics for more than 18 million women. today we remember the murder of dr. george tiller. the rage of his assassin enough to kill is not representative of the broader anti-choice movement. but the level of terror that he experienced as a daily reality while defending women's health and rights, while doing legal and constitutionally protected work and risking his life in the process, that is something physicians contend that they deal with when they try to provide termination services

even today. it means that the pool of those physicians is smaller and the state legislatures pushing policy that will reduce the number of clinics, those physicians become an even more visible target. joining me now is kelly badden, from the center of reproductive rights and from los angeles msnbc national reporter irin car moan who was recently in wichita, kansas. nice to have you here. >> hey, melissa. >> talk to me about your experiences in wichita. i felt a certain kind of nervousness even showing a portion of the documentary, showing the home. talk to me about how folks there are experiencing the kind of post-tiller era. >> well, you know, as julie burkhart says, women need abortions in wichita and the area just like they need them anywhere else. these policy makers who are seeking to stand in the way of women have not done anything to change the fact that people want

to end their pregnancies, that they have need in their lives and cannot add to their family at this point. so i think there's a tremendous sense of responsibility among the folks in wichita. it's easy enough to live in new york and california and talk about a woman's right to choose, but every day these folks go to work, they're putting themselves in the line of fire. they're unable to live what we would consider normal lives. and the doctor who flies in from chicago, who we also interviewed on msnbc.com, has found that these protesters even came and found her in her life in chicago. she lost her job, she lost relationships close to her. so this is an enormous sacrifice that the folks who are in the abortion provision industry are doing. and for it, they're painted as villains, they're painted as taking advantage of women. but every day that they go to work, they make what we consider these vital rights possible. >> irin, hold for me just a second. kelly, it does seem to me part of how that becomes possible, this targeting of these physicians, is because abortion

is operating in this kind of segregated medical space. the fact is i don't know when somebody is going into the local university hospital near me, whether they're going for an abortion or for a colonoscopy or for anything else. there is some way we can imagine the provision of this legal constitutionally protected medical procedure that doesn't expose the physicians to this kind of shaming and danger? >> right. i mean abortion is just one part of a comprehensive reproductive health care experience in a woman's life. it's incredibly common. one in three women will have an abortion. and it's an experience that's part of a woman's whole reproductive health care and family planning. so for women who experience abortion, it's not a stand-alone health care procedure, it's part of their everyday health care procedure within the context of their life. so this idea that abortion is separate and needs to be treated differently and subject to different rules and regulations and policies is just not -- it's not accurate with what abortion

actually is. >> so let me go to exactly that, irin. there's been this shift that we've seen in the kind of anti-abortion activity and policy and this sort of targeting not so much the women anymore, although there's some of that, but targeting now the physicians and specifically the spaces, the clinics. talk to me about admitting privileges, because i was -- i was just appalled to learn that if you perform colonoscopies that there's a much higher rate of death from colonoscopies than from abortion and yet if you perform colonoscopies in these kind of ambulatory centers, you don't have to have admitting privileges. >> this is law and politics interfering with medicine. it's certainly not medically indicated that you need to have medical privileges at a hospital. if god forbid there's an emergency you can be admitted just like anyone else if that happens. >> before you go on, i just want you to say that again. i don't want that to be missed. that if you are walking down the

street and you have a heart attack, you can be admitted to a hospital. if you are having a medical procedure like an abortion, you can be admitted to a hospital. your doctor not having admitting privileges has nothing to do with that. >> your doctor probably shouldn't leave the clinic where the doctor is performing care. emergency physicians are trained to deal with these sorts of complications. they may be similar from the complications of a miscarriage. if you ask any mainstream medical provider, they will say this is a matter of politics. the reason it's a matter of law is because we still have the constitutional right to abortion in this country. policymakers are unable to say their real intentions, which is blocking women who desire to end their pregnancies, so they have to say this is about women's health. but everybody knows what this is really about. they have not been able to end the need for abortion. they have not been able to change women's minds. they know that if they go after the women and they look like they're crushing women's rights. so instead what they're choosing to do is to say that the doctors are substandard providers,

despite the fact that there's no evidence that that's the case. >> kelly, so when irin says this is about politics, it really is. we're taking a look at state regulations. 27 states have policies regulating abortions. 25 states require facilities to meet ambulatory surgical centers. 25 provide they have affiliations with a local hospital. 13 said the size of the room, what are we talking about here? >> we're talking about a very clear, calculated, coordinated strategy in which policy makers did everything they can to try to enact policies to get women to change their minds and not choose abortion. waiting periods, ultrasound requirements, all of those things were aimed at trying to stop women from choosing abortion. when that didn't work and women still chose abortion because women need abortion care, they have now switched to this other strategy, which is making it so difficult to provide in the state that clinics are forced to close their doors.

as irin said, that's what admitting privileges are. it's a business agreement between a hospital and i provider that is subject to politics, so it leaves abortion access in the state subject to the whim of a hospital's decision ultimately and that's what we're seeing in mississippi where the last clinic is hanging on by a thread as we figure out whether or not it can stay open. a very clear point by the governor there to say i want to be an abortion-free state and this is the way i'm going to do it. >> we have only a few seconds, irin, but let me ask is there any hope, there is any place where things are getting better and not worse? >> the doctor who travels to wichita every week is 32 years old. when you talk to physicians that are in the business of abortion provision, they say that the priet spot is that the younger generation gets it. if they don't step up, there isn't going to be anyone there to provide for these women. so i think there is a new awareness of the fact that if not me, then who is it going to be. >> irin carmon, thank you for joining us and thank you for your continued reporting on this

matter. >> thank you, melissa. you can see more of irin's documentary on msnbc.com right now. also thanks to kelly baden right here in new york. thank you for week here this morning. we have a lot to get to this morning, including the latest on the va scandal, the aftermath of last week's rampage in california, and the first lady's big food fight. up next, the campaign to wage against the machine scores a victory in an unlikely place. an incredible story of success, yes, success within our political system. whew, we need a palate cleanser, next. we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom.

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in his 2013 state of the union address, president obama issued a simple challenge to the country. >> tonight let's declare that in the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty

and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour. >> by his 2014 state of the union speech, president obama noted that at least five states had accepted his challenge and raised their own minimum wage and then the president upped the ante. >> in the coming weeks, i will issue an executive order requiring federal contractors to pay their federally funded employees a fair wage of at least $10.10 because if you cook our troops' meals or wash their dishes, you should not have to live in poverty. >> and he didn't stop there. the push for a higher minimum wage is still a recurring theme for the president. so far congress has not climbed aboard, but their constituents have. in a recent pew poll, 73% supported raising the minimum wage. so did 90% of democrats and more than half of republicans. still, all of the states in enacting minimum wage increases this year have been led by democrats. until this week when michigan

became the seventh state and the first with a republican-led government to do so. on tuesday governor rick snyder signed legislation increasing michigan's minimum wage to $9.25 by 2018, a move that could improve the earnings of some 96,000 michigan workers. now, it sounds like republicans are coming around, at least in michigan, but it's worth noting snyder is up for re-election in november and he just signed the bill one day before labor activists turned in boxes of signatures to support a ballot measure that would raise the minimum wage even higher to $10.10. it's unclear if the ballot measure will still be put to a vote in november, but it is clear that the popular support for a higher minimum wage is making a difference politically. up next, we'll shift our focus to the tragedy in california. it wasn't just an act of violence. i want to claim it was also an act of terror. out to provide you with the most powerful and reliable network experience. and now for the next advancement.

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last week we bore witness to a despicable act of violence outside santa barbara, california. a young man took the lives of six people, injured 13 and lost his own life. the story is becoming disturbingly commonplace, the loss of innocent lives, the grieving parents of victims, the shattered peace of a community, the sorrow and distress of the assailant's family. but the california homicides were more than heart-breaking, they were terrorizing. so often after an act of mass violence, we're left asking why. but this perpetrator told us the reason for his rampage. this man was angry with women. not just the women who lived in his neighborhood who were members of sororities at the nearby university of california, santa barbara, this man was angry with all women n a 141-page document he wrote, "i cannot kill every single female on earth, but i can deliver a devastating blow that will shake all of them to the core of their wicked hearts." it's his clear motivation and the videos and treatises

motivating it that moves this act of violence into the category of terrorism. terrorism never has the immediate victims as the soul target. terrorism subjects whole categories of people to the fear that they could be targeted solely for their identity. subjected to brutality and even murder. that was this killer's goal. honestly since last week, many women have felt more afraid. now, we know we're not actually any more vulnerable today than we were last friday afternoon before this happened. and yet many are wondering if the stakes are higher than we've ever imagined. if you could be risking your life by turning down a potential suitor or simply ignoring a catcall on the street. joining me are jen posner and jonathan metzel professor of psychiatry at vanderbilt university. thanks for being here, both of you. jonathan, here's my question. we talked briefly last week but have had an opportunity to read and see so much more. is masogny a mental illness?

and should it keep people from being able to purchase a gun? >> the short answer is yes. i long answer is is i left last week almost depressed. >> i almost don't want to see you on the show. >> i love seeing you, we're friends, but i thought here we go again. this is going to be another blame issue of, oh, mental i illness caused it and it's this diagnosed mental illness that caused it. i think we've shifted this conversation from the individual pathology of an individual shooter into a broader conversation about what the shooter represented in a way, which was men who mistake conquest for intimacy and respond with violence when they don't get what they want. in a way i think gender has been the kind of white elephant in the room of a lot of these mass shootings and we've been too slow to recognize the role of gender and i almost felt encouraged that in a way what we've seen as a response to this

gun proliferation rhetoric isn't less guns, it's feminism. yes, all women and all these conversations that have been happening have been very encouraging as rhetorics to displace this crazy masculinized rhetoric of guns. >> this is useful. jonathan and i talked about it last week but, jen in, a certain way and you've said this to me before, you've been waiting more than a decade to have this conversation in part because this -- the favor that this shooter does, the one thing within the context of this horror is because he says this is about masogeny, we can talk about it as being that and not an individual. >> i've been waiting to having this conversation for 16 years. in 1998 two elementary school boys in jonesboro gunned down four of their female classmates and their female teacher because

one of them said no girl is going to break up with me. at the time all the media coverage was what could make this happen? it must be the rap music or violent video games. and nowhere in that discussion was it must be what they said it was, which was this entitlement to female attention, this entitlement to female bodies. it must be sexism. and i wrote at the time, i wrote if media and in particular journalists weren't going to investigate and name this as a gender-based hate crime, they weren't going to tell the public what the warning signs are, media would be continuingly complicit in more crimes. then the amish shootings, the virginia tech shootings. at the time i kept saying this is a man who stalked women on campus, this is a man a female teacher said she didn't feel safe with, and still the

coverage was it must be something else. it must not be masogeny. and then the health club murders. this time we finally are having this conversation in part because feminists have been having this conversation online for so many years. >> so here's the hard part. there's a lot of hard parts. but i want to take just a moment and i want to listen to the father. this is hard for me to listen to, but i want to listen to him because as much as now we have this opportunity to have this conversation, it is over the bodies of these dead boys and girls. so i want to listen to a father for a moment. >> chris died because of craven, irresponsible politicians and the nra. they talk about gun rights. what about chris's right to live? when will this insanity stop? >> mr. martinez in that moment is capturing that sense of when will this stop? he lays it at the feet in part

of the nra and yet part of what i thought was interesting, and you brought this to our attention, jonathan, it's not just the nra in the sense of gun ownership, but you talk about it as the nra attaching guns to masculinity and reminded us of the bushmaster man card reissued. this sense of like this is what your masculinity and manhood is a part of. >> it struck me this week that in a way what's so problematic is not just the proliferation of guns, it's the proliferation of a particular kind of masculinity that's linked to it. it's all about these guns are a replacement for your anxieties about being a man. these guns represent something that you have to protect your family and be a man. in a way, that's probably a message that most people can handle but what we're seeing in the rodger shooting is if you're slightly on the edge or something like this, his manifesto was full of this thing of i'm going to reclaim my masculinity, i'm going to be the perfect gentleman and in a way

you can see this message of guns of what psychiatrists call phallic replacements which is not at all about what the constitution intends, which is protecting our country. it's about a particular kind of manhood and i think in a way as i was saying, i think ironically the answer to that following the #yesallwomen on twitter is a feminist response. i think feminism is the voice that's been missing in this conversation. >> we'll take a break and we'll go to, as soon as we come back, the social media reaction to the tragedy in california. specifically what is meant when we say #yesallwomen. that's next. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge.

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in the afternoon math of the killings last week outside santa barbara, hash tag took shape, #yesallwomen. women used it to define the violence they experience. some examples, i have a

boyfriend is the easiest way to get a man to leave you alone. when women set boundaries, men think that's cue to start getting more creative with figuring out ways to violate them. i shouldn't have to hold my car keys in my hand like a weapon and check over my shoulder every few seconds when i walk at night. this shows how the hash tag exploded around the world, accumulating more than one million tweets at its peak, seeing more than 60,000 tweets hash tagged #yesallwomen every hour. joining our table is byron hurt and yolanda pierce, associate professor of african-american rnl and literature at princeton theological seminary. i wanted to start with you, yolanda, in part because the speed with which that moved across the earth and that sense of yes all women and i kept thinking, you know, i have some angst about the yes all women, but the thing about it that seemed critically important was laying on the table we spent a lot of life energy, emotional energy, trying not to be victims

of violence. just imagine what we might accomplish in the world if we weren't using the energy to do that. >> one of the things that's important to me to note is that people just saying let's just hash tag #activism. but the truth of the matter is here are people who feel like they don't have a voice in other spaces so they're using twitter to say this is happening to me and i need you to listen to me. in those 140 characters, a lot of complex information is being conveyed about women's experiences on a regular basis, including how difficult it is for women to just go about their daily lives and also the complexity, for instance, for women of color who disproportionately deal with some of the harassment that they receive. so #activism actually has a place if it's raising awareness about experiences that it seems to me that the rest of mainstream media wants to ignore. >> you put your finger right on my primary angst. whenever i hear yes all women i always think all women are always a little different. we want to see the diversity

within the complex idea that is womanhood, but that said there were so many things that did feel like the yes, all women. but byron, the immediate response or i'm not sure of the order but the brother to the yes all women was not all men and this kind of defensive position of, yes, those may be your experiences, dear, but some of us are good guys and mostly that just made me very sleepy. i just felt exhausted, right? >> i think that's a pretty typical response. men have a really difficult time hearing women share their stories about their victimization or their fear or their concern about their physical and sexual safety, right? and so there's always going to be some pushback and there's always going to be guys who want to prove or assert the fact that they are not like that guy or like that rapist or like that mass murderer. but i think what women and men need to see are more men who do

not ascribe to traditional notions of manhood, traditional notions of masculinity that makes these associations with maleness and violence. and i think a lot of men don't really have that space to speak out against that traditional notion of manhood because there's a tremendous risk when men speak out against it. >> okay. so i want to push and ask a little bit here. i wonder if part of the reason that men have a difficulty in hearing about the vulnerability, the sexual and physical vulnerability of women is because it actually does challenge the notion of their capacity to protect their beloveds, their wives and daughters and friends, so that often we as women do not report our experiences of vulnerability because we fear. and in a week in which we lost dr. maya angelou, who wrote about this how telling it was because when she said her uncles went and killed her assailant

that we actually don't tell so as not to draw you all into additional violence on our behalf because that's the presumption of what manhood is. >> well, that's a very male response, right? responding violently in order to protect or reclaim your sense of loss of manhood or masculinity that you feel has been violated or disrespected, right? so yes, that does shut certain women down from sharing their stories because they don't want the violence or the trauma to continue. so, yes, that happens often. and again, i think it reveals this connection, this almost -- it's almost like it's a knee-jerk reaction to responding to violence is to reassert your manhood or your masculinity by using more violence. >> one of the things that i think is so useful about the #yesallwomen thread is it's sort of like what if you threw a party and no one game. what if you threw back a take back your night march and everybody in the world came and it wasn't just feminists but it

was women of all different political stripes, gee graphic regions, class status all sharing their experiences from street harassment to sexual assault to violence and general masogeny and men are listening this. even though there's the predictable, pathetic trolling on the thread with the rape threats and hate mail, there's also a lot of americmen learnin this. i've gotten e-mails from a lot of men of good conscience who said i thought i understood what the women in my life face, i didn't know at all. now what can i do. >> let me complicate it a little bit. i don't get to suggest -- i want to suggest maybe not this one woman. so this is the senate candidate currently in iowa. i want to show a recent ad and then come to you on this, jonathan. >> she's not your typical candidate. conservative joni ernst, mom, farm girl and a lieutenant colonel who carries more than just lipstick in her purse. >> so there's joni ernst, she's

loading her gun. clearly she is performing that as a woman in this political space. >> well, again, i think it's important to be very sensitive to that. i mean there's a long history of women's responses to gender violence. feminists in the 1970s were very public about taking karate classes and that was the start of anti-rape protection and things like that. but i guess what worries me about ads like that is we just -- who are we going to arm next in a way. after the movie theater shooting, we armed the movie guys. after the school shooting, we arm the school guys. it's like, oh, women are the next place we can sell more guns in a particular way. i think in a way, you know, a better response than arming women, which of course is understandable, is to say we're critiquing the gender construction that underlies the proliferation of guns in the first place. >> there are a lot of pink guns. living in louisiana, going to gun shows is part of the cultural life. there are a lot of pink guns.

in fact there are also baby bags with conceal carry in the -- i know this from being -- having the baby. still to come, at what point is it a trend, the alarming series of stories of judges telling convicted rapists no prison time. new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

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women are exceedingly vulnerable to violence at the hands of men. the numbers are alarming. according to the latest comprehensive statistics compiled by the justice department in 2000, 55% of american women have been physically assaulted and/or raped in their life times. 25% of all women say they have suffered violence by an intimate partner, a spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend, a date or an ex. their assailants are overwhelmingly men. men commit 92% of the physical assaults against adult women and men commit 100% of the rapes against adult women. women who have been assaulted are usually attacked not by strangers, but by the men to whom they are closest.

of the men who have been raped or physically assaulted, 76% were assaulted by an intimate partner. about 9% were attacked by a relative other than a spouse. about 17% were assaulted by an acquaintance. just 14% of women who were assaulted were assaulted by someone they didn't know. by contrast, men who are assaulted are most often assaulted by strangers. and these are just the people who survive. in 2012, 992 women were murdered by their spouse, ex-spouse or boyfriend. 35% of female murder victims that year. guns are a major factor. nearly two-thirds of all women killed by firearms were killed by their intimate male partner. if an abusive partner has access to a gun, the chance that he will murder his partner increases fivefold. this is the everyday violence we must be focused on. but it's not wholly separate from acts of terrorism like the one in california, because 18% of mass shooters have a prior

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a culture of masogeny does not only exist in the dark corners of the internet or the minds of particularly disturbed individuals, it's woven into the fabric of our key institutions. we have reported far too many times in recent months about the unbelievably light punishments given to convicted rapists by judges. there was a texas judge who in april sentenced a young man to probation after he admitted to raping a girl at school. the judge, a woman, said the 14-year-old victim, quote, wasn't the victim she claimed to be. there was the delaware judge who sentenced a wealthy man to probation as part of a deal in which he pled guilty to raping his toddler's daughter. the judge, a woman, noted that the rapist would not fare well

in prison and the judge was later defended by delaware attorney general beau biden, son of vice president joe biden because it, quote, was not a strong case. but this month a judge in indiana sentenced a man convicted of repeatedly drugging and raping his wife to house arrest. at the sentencing, the judge reportedly told the victim she needed to forgive her attacker. >> all the women at the table are like, oh. >> deep sigh. >> when it's that institutionalized, when women judges see survivors as somehow complicit in their own victimization. >> so we have classes of women within our society upon whom we think that we can and should inflict violence. one of the most disturbing portions of this case for me in terms of santa barbara has been the number of people weighing in saying, well, if he had only visited a prostitute. all of those other girls, those pretty blonde girls, those sorority girls would have been

saved, as if it's okay to inflict violence upon the bodies of sex workers, the people who are on the margins of society. but no, no, no, not the sorority girls. >> go work it out over there. >> and the poor folks of color, the bodies of women of color, the bodies of the sex workers. violence against women is a systematic, institutional problem, whether you're wealthy or whether you're poor. and until we can talk about how comprehensive the source of the problem is, we'll continue to say, well, oh, so she was violated. that's okay. but not this person's daughter. >> and the wealth and apparent physiological whiteness of the assailant may also be part of the story in part because we know that these -- part of the heart breaker is these parents seemed to be doing everything these parents could do. they clearly had alerted the authorities. the authorities sand there and then walk away. i presume it is in part he self-presents as what we think not an attacker is. >> i rewatched a documentary

film called "tough guys 2." jackson katz in that film does a really great job talking about this crisis of white masculinity and this whole notion that these white men are trying to reclaim their masculinity, right, by exerting violence against girls and women as a result of -- >> demographic shifts? >> demographic shifts, gains in rights that women have acquired over the years from the 1960s and 1970s and beyond. and it also speaks to how white masculinity and white violent masculinity and abusive masculinity gets a pass because of white privilege. the benefits that white men share in being white and male and, therefore, no one has to really pay attention to their violent behavior or attribute individual acts of violence or acts of rape against white men because no one sees this as a collective -- a collective action of violence.

>> if i could just add, i teach a class called the politics of masculinity and we teach exactly that point. one of the points people don't realize is that it is also incredibly bad for men. men die sooner from all these preventible causes of illness trying to be a tough man. you're more likely to die in violence than die in a car wreck. so in a way it's like men saying why should i care about this feminist stuff. it's actually good for your mortality to pay attention to some of these issues because this prison of the hedgemonic construction of masculinity is also very, very bad for men. >> so i was thinking that one of the things that ties into everything that everybody has said around the table is that this is really systemic, right? so whether it's the judges who sometimes are women who are letting off these rapists or whether it's media who have up

until this crime looked and said that's not sexist, that's not part of it, that is part of why the police, as you said, the family tried to get help for elliot rodger and they walked away saying he's courteous, he's polite. part of it is because of this white masculinity and white privilege. >> entitlement. >> exactly. and part of it is because media have not given the warning signs to know. we need to change the systemic -- >> and the other -- the only one other thing i want to add in here is so i am in agreement with you around the ways in which race privilege, gender privilege and class privilege operate for this particular shooter. when we think about the problem, for example, of black male violence, we almost exclusively think about that violence as it is enacted on other black men, primarily through kind of urban street violence. we almost never talk about black male violence vis-a-vis black women's bodies. what we know is all races of people except for native american women are most likely to be victimized by people

within their own racial category. so even as we are trying to do the work within, for example, racial justice, we often are very silent about the ways in which black men's violence vis-a-vis black women's bodies is also part of this story. >> and then we have melissa alexander being penalized for defending herself. that's part of this whole systemic problem. whether it's masculinity or race privilege, we need to make these connections in a large kind of way. it's why i'm happy we're having this conversation. >> and yet i'm sad about why we have to have this conversation. thank you to jenn pozner and by run hurt, i hope you come back again. although every time we are together it is behind madness. also thanks to jonathan metzl for being here. yolanda will stick around a little longer. coming up, the first lady's food fight. first lady obama like we have never seen her before and my remembrances of dr. maya ang angelou. there is more nerdland at the top of the hour.

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welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. everybody look out for flying fruit! in case you haven't noticed, we are smack in the middle of a full-fledged food fight. and the stakes, namely the federal government's role in the nutrition and health of american kids, couldn't be higher. on one side we have congress, and more specifically house republicans, who are at the urging of an influential food industry interest looking to let some schools off the hook from the white house's new rules to make school meals healthier. in the other corner we have first lady michelle obama, who has been america's most visible and vocal advocate for healthy kids since she first launched let's move campaign against childhood obesity in 2010. the food already has been flying for quite some time. think back to 2011, just a year after the first lady's campaign first got moving.

and a year after the passage of the healthy hunger-free kids act, championed by the first lady. at the time there was no shortage of conservative backlash and response to the campaign and the first lady herself. there were critical comments about her physique, the accusations that her promotion of breastfeeding was ushering the era of a newnany state and eventhe suggestion that her push to get americans walking would endanger pedestrians. when critics hit back it was mostly with a velvet glove. here's what she told a reporter for scholastic reporter. >> let's move is not about telling -- having government tell people who to do, because government doesn't have all the answers. i mean a problem that's this big and affects so many people requires everyone to step up. >> that soft touch approach was characteristic of first lady obama's nonconfrontational response to opposition, which is why this week the food fight got

good because this week the gloves came off and her latest foray into the food fight saw some flexing of first lady muscle that we haven't sfreen our flotus before. she assembled with people from washington who make the decision about what goes on the menu in school lunch rooms. the gathering was in response to a bill backed by house republicans that would give an opt-out exemption to schools who say they can no longer afford to comply with the updated 2010 nutrition standards. it would give those schools a one-year waiver from the next round of new nutrition rules set to go into effect this fall. according to a "washington post" report backers of the bill were shocked at the first lady's decidedly different tone during her meeting when she had this to say about the lentiling. -- legislation. >> despite these successes, we're now seeing efforts in congress to roll back these new standards and undo the hard work that all of you, all of us have done on behalf of our kids.

and, you know, this is unacceptable. it's unacceptable to me not just as first lady, but as a mother. the last thing that we can afford to do right now is play politics with our kids' health. >> that was the first lady versus congress in an in your face kind of way and she didn't stop there. she continued to come after them a day later in a "new york times" editorial in which mrs. obama expands the food fights including not only lunchrooms but wic, the federal program that provides supplemental nutrition to low income women and their children. the house is considering a bill that would put white potatoes on the list of foods those moms can buy with their wic money. in the "times" she writes many women and children already consume enough potatoes and not enough of the fruits and vegetables they need. that's why the institute of medicine, the nonpartisan, scientific body that advises on the standards for wic has said that potatoes should not be part

of the wic program. white house press secretary jay carney, you know he was press secretary at the time, made clear this week when he told reporters aboard air force one that the president and first lady both feel very strongly about the need to continue moving forward when it comes to school nutrition and not allowing politics to pull us backward. first lady michelle obama's emergence as the leading voice of the obama administration's position on food policy has situated her in a unique historic context among a very short list of first ladies who have stepped into the middle of the political fray. joining me now, shirley watkins boden, school nutrition consultant, who was one of the people in the room with first lady obama on tuesday. marian nestle, professor in the department of food studies and pun lick health and author of "eat, drink, vote." an illustrated guide to food politics. still with us yo launlanda pierd bill telepan, executive chef for

the nonprofit wellness in the schools. he also helped launch first lady obama's "let's move" initiative. thank you all for being here. so did you see a new tone from our first lady this week? >> i certainly did, and rightfully so. this is a real food fight. we are all trying to figure out why we are in this position. the school nutrition association worked really hard for decades and were very, very supportive of the regulations. we are baffled that they have made this turn-around and we are trying to figure out why. it certainly is not about children. >> so the narrative is that what it's about is cost and the difficulty of schools. you know, honestly as i listen to it, you know, maybe this is a stretch, but, dang, it sounds a lot like that all deliberate speed anxiety that we had 50 years ago about the integration

of public schools. >> some of this is just a backlash against mrs. obama herself. how dare she speak her mind. how dare this highly educated, highly competent, highly trained woman have something to say about the nation's children. and some of this has just something to do with the fact that she is not taking on just kind of a pet project as first lady but she's daring to enter into a political fray. but she is a citizen and she can do so and she is someone who has the skills and qualifications to do so. some of the backlash is the first lady doing some things that congress has not allowed her husband to be able to do. >> interestingly enough, she has a little bit more political capital than the president to spend. her favorability ratings are up to 66% with unfavorable is 29 while potus is still around 52. so one might think, because i think what i do agree with here is this is not just a pet project anymore. once jay carney is saying, no,

no, no, they're in it together. it's like j & b, they are here together to fight this. suddenly it looks like, okay, food fighting is not just about let's move to the kids, it's a big story now, political story. >> yeah, and what we're seeing in the schools is that it's actually working. >> never mind that the policy is effective, right? >> and the other thing too is it takes a little time. with wellness in schools, we've been in some of the schools for three or four years and you see the changes in the culture of the school itself. we teach classes where you ask questions about like you know what olive oil does to you and kids raise their hand and know about it. and they attack the salad bars. i mean some kids do walk by but most of them go and eat the vegetables. that's a great way for them to get their fruits and vegetables. i was just in a school on thursday and i didn't see a lot of kids throwing out -- i see them eating, they're hungry, and there are a lot of kids in this nation that rely on that meal

because they come into school hungry and why shouldn't it be nutritious. why shouldn't it be good for them. >> the language of culture that you just used seems to me to also be part of what is wrapped up here in the politics. so i didn't know this until i sent my kid to an elite private school, which hadn't been part of my childhood or anything, and the food in that school is utterly different. the presumption that, of course, there would be some apples sitting around in the hallway for kids to eat and of course there would be a smoothie bar and a salad bar. is part of the politics the presumption that some kinds of kids will get certain kinds of food. kids that are from communities where we expect them to know how to eat it. but in communities where we presume the culture is that people don't eat well, then we also should not provide good food at the schools? >> no, this is about politics, it's not about school food at all. >> i see. >> it really has to be understood as being about politics because this was a bipartisan effort. congress passed this bill.

schools are doing it just fine. and there are a lot of people who started out by saying they were not going to let the obamas do anything. and this is part of that agenda to keep the president and the first lady from doing anything at all. >> even improving school -- >> even improving school meals. >> some things just have to be noncontroversial, right? >> we cannot believe that school meals have become a pawn in this fight and that kids' health is at stake here. when mrs. obama took on childhood obesity as her -- you know, i was just thrilled. i thought, ah, a first lady who's interested in the same kind of issues that i am. pretty terrific. i don't know whether she knew what a land mine she was walking into. anything about food is political. any time you talk about healthy food, there are people who are

going to lose. >> and by people, you mean industries that are going to lose. >> industries are going to lose. >> i want to take a listen just for a moment because the politics of it became clear to me listening me. this is debbie wasserman schultz talking to robert adelman, republican from alabama, about whether this delay is actually meant to kill the program. >> so the majority does not intend to eliminate these nutrition standards and allow school districts to remain out of compliance? >> not in this -- not in this bill. i mean i can say -- >> yes, we're not going to kill it with this bill, we will wait and kill it with the next bill is how that sounded. that was a pretty stunning moment. >> that's what we're afraid of. this is just the beginning, the beginning of a way to destroy the programs. we've never seen anything like this in history of the child nutrition programs.

they have never been politicized before, not ever. >> but they have been politicized to the extent that they were about, for example, usda agricultural subsidies of corn or making sure everybody has got the milk. they were maybe not part of it, but they were political previously. >> well, the program, i guess, we've never seen our people politicize the program. >> in a left-right, democrat-republican kind of way. >> right. they have always joined together to support the program for children. but they have forgotten about children now. it's not about children anymore. >> when we come back, i want to talk a little bit about michelle obama, our first lady, doing a kitchen dance with seattle seahawks cornerback richard sherman. [ shutter clicks ]

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richard, take me through your final plate. >> let me tell you, we the best chefs in the game. when you try with an easy meal, that's the result you're going to get. >> wow, richard, where did you learn how to do all this? corn, succotash, salmon cakes? >> that was first lady michelle obama and seattle seahawks cornerback richard sherman reenacting his infamous sideline interview. the two teamed up as part of obama's "let's move" campaign which this week upped the ante from first lady pet project to pure politics when she went head to head with congress over food policy. first lady michelle obama is speaking out against a house proposal that would allow some schools to opt out of dietary

standards. her opposition to the changes pits her against a former ally, the school nutrition association, who originally worked with "let's move" as an advocate of the new rules but now that group is leading the call for the opt-out provision citing the financial problem of schools. that's the idea, that somehow schools are losing money because -- one, that kids are hungry because the portions are small and, two, that schools are losing money because kids won't pay for the healthy food. >> well, the portion sizes are actually the same than before. i think all they did was -- before you either got a fruit or a vegetable and now you get a fruit and a vegetable. >> imagine that. >> and i think, again, it's about like putting the plate in front of the kids and if they're hungry, they'll eat it. do we really want to feed them burgers and fries all the time? no. i think you've got to get them this healthy plate of food in

front of them so that they can go into the second half of the day with like a good brain. >> do you have a children's menu at your restaurant? as a parent, one of the things i'm always irritated by is the idea that kids with opt out into sort of the least healthy options. they're not even asked to in a dining out experience sort of think about, okay, maybe i don't want the pasta with all that on it but i'll just take some plain pasta or i'll take some green beans or something. >> i don't present a children's menu to people at either restaurant, but of course if somebody comes in and their children wants a plate of buttered pasta, we'll make it. when our daughter was very, very, very young we walked into this restaurant we really wanted to try in vermont and this guy gave me this speech about how i want my -- i want all the kids to try the food. i said, yeah, but what happens if i want my kid to try to eat something and we'll put the vegetables in it, but again with my daughter it took time.

so now she -- every day she asks for -- she asks for brussel sprouts, she asks for cauliflower, she'll eat broccoli, she'll eat salmon, she'll eat these things that are good for you but it took us time. >> the key is presenting it. >> you don't want to be a short order cook as a parent, you know what i mean? you don't want to make something for your husband and something different for each kid, you just put the food out in front of the table like all of our moms have done. >> and this is part of what we want to do in the role in schools. i want to listen to a democrat from connecticut talk about the fact you can't just give your kids pizza all the time, even if they always want it, and then i'll ask you about this. >> i spent four days with my grandchildren over this weekend, four days. and if they could have had pizza and french fries at every meal and ended it with some chocolate, that's what they would have done. however, i have a responsibility to make sure that they are eating properly. >> so we have a responsibility as well. you said in the break something

i just hadn't thought about. we literally collectively have a responsibility to the military readiness of our nation to provide our children with healthy food. >> exactly. that's how this program began. it was because the military was not prepared to go to war, so they thought if we provide good school nutritious foods, then we would have made these young men ready and prepared to stand up and fight the battle. now all of a sudden after all these years, they want to change this. for children, this is the best opportunity for them to get a good, nutritious meal. and we have a responsibility to not only provide it, but work with the children, work with the families to teach good nutrition and offer them good food. >> politics makes strange

bedfellows. here we have the military fighting for healthier school meals, but also 19 former presidents of the school nutrition association. so the school nutrition association is split and the current leadership is for the waiver. i mean it's an organization that's very heavily supported by the food industry, and it's hard to believe that that doesn't have something to do with it. >> but the battleground that we are seeing politically is happening on the backs of 7 and 8-year-olds, and we are often losing sight of the fact that there are hungry children who depend upon this food. there are children who have had -- only had access to very poor quality food and so their taste buds have to be trained -- >> exactly. >> if all you eat are potato chips, the first time you have kale or spinach it's disgusting, right? but the battleground is happening on children, some of

whom would be hungry without this food and we are losing sight of that as we are politicizing it. >> when we come back, we'll talk about the battleground and the sa ailant, the potato. we're moving our company to new york state. the numbers are impressive. over 400,000 new private sector jobs... making new york state number two in the nation in new private sector job creation... with 10 regional development strategies to fit your business needs. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york... with the state creating dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. become the next business to discover the new new york. [ male announcer ] see if your business qualifies.

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dropped $180,000 last year on spending and campaign contributions to win support from lawmakers. more than it spent on lobbying in all of the years from 2008 to 2012 combined. this year the council is on track to set a new record for spending, dropping $60,000 in the first quarter alone. so far it looks like all that potato money may be paying off. earlier this month politico reported that the potato lobby may have won the votes it needs to get back on the wic list which has renewed concern from those on the other side of the fight, including the first lady, that big food may have a bigger say than science in deciding what and how we eat. joining me now from los angeles is someone whose new film exposes this very issue, lori david, executive producer of the documentary "fed up." nice to have you here. >> great to be here and i'm kblglad to see mrs. obama is fed up too.

>> is it a good idea to pick a fight with mr. potato? >> i don't think this is about politics, i disagree with the panel a little bit. i think this is all the food industry. they are not going to back down and get their products out of the schools, it's too big a thing for them. and we cover this in "fed up." pizza as a vegetable. there's a company called schwan from minneapolis that has 70% of all the pizza markets in schools. there was no way they were going to not let pizza be part of the school lunch program, and they won. >> speaking of which, let me take a moment to read the national potato council statement that came to us. this is one portion of it. they write we are confident that allowing participants to purchase any fresh fruit or vegetable in the produce aisle reinforces wic program's mission to provide nutrition for women, infants and children found to be at risk. in addition, adding potatoes to the basket will help mothers

stretch their dollars and reduce confusion at checkout. don't get me wrong, i get the potato issue, but i also think, yeah, why shouldn't poor mothers be able to buy a potato? >> i can tell you one thing and it's based solely on common sense. we do not need to be eating more potatoes. kids don't need more potatoes. french fries is -- that's the ubiquitous thing that kids are eating every single day. i mean they're not really nutritious. now, what about sweet potatoes? that would be something that would be worth fighting for. >> so there is like a potato segregation situation going on here? white potatoes no, but orange potatoes yes? >> white potatoes are not that nutritious and everyone is eating too much of them. so we have to bring into the diet the things that have more nutrition in them and sweet potatoes is a perfect example. but fruits and vegetables. i mean so much of this is really common sense. and who is protecting our children? i mean it's really outrageous. and i think there's a whole other piece of this argument which is marketing and

advertising and the fact that kids from the second they are born, they're targeted by the food industry and the beverage industry, you know, to get them eating the least nutritious food possible. and it's really outrageous, it really is. and i can understand why michelle obama has been working so hard on this issue for so many years, why she is fed up, and we should all be fed up. you know, the pushback has to happen. we cannot let the food industry dictate what our kids should be eating. it's outrageous. >> i want to follow up with you on one thing here, because this is i think a key aspect of the "fed up" film and that is the idea that when we fwatalk about food-based disease or obesity or diabetes in children, for example, we talk about it as a matter of individual responsibility and individual choice. nobody makes you eat this or that. nobody tells you you have to sit and play the computer game instead of going for a run. you guys really push back against that and suggest it is the food environment. so let me ask this, if it's the

food environment, how come so much individual variability within that same food environment? >> here's the thing. if you go to the supermarket and you're shopping for your family and you seafood that says healthy or more fiber or part of a healthy breakfast, you know, you trust those labels. but so much of the food in the supermarket is mislabeled. the information is misleading. there's so much misinformation out there. you know, 30 years ago, we took all the fat out of food and now we have stores filled with low fat and nonfat, but what happened was when they took the fat out, they poured in the sugar. so now we're all consuming products that are full of sugar. we're not even aware of it. when you eat dessert you know you're having something that's sweet. but when you're buying store bought salad dressing or spaghetti sauce or yogurt, you don't realize how much sugar is in that. of course the labels are mislabeled. sugar is represented by grams.

nobody knows what a gram is. you know what a teaspoon is. why doesn't it say teaspoon. of course the daily recommended amount for sugar is not listed on a single label. so people are eating things that are making them sick and making them fat without even being aware of it. >> thank you to lori david in los angeles both for "fed up" and for your passion on this issue. thank you right here at the table to shirley watkins bowden and yolanda pierce and bill telepan. still to come this morning, remembering dr. maya angelou and my letter of the week. no more sugar for me, i'm done. and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. [ male announcer ] cleaner, don't just visit hawaii.

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president yesterday. >> a few minutes ago secretary shinseki offered me his own resignation. with considerable regret, i accepted. >> the move may have been inevitable, as more than 100 members of congress from both parties have been calling for his resignation. and, yes, it may have been necessary. but one man's resignation is not the solution to systemic failure. that's why my letter this week goes to one of the leaders in washington who had the opportunity to address the needs of our nation's veterans and chose not to. dear senate republican leader mitch mcconnell, it's me, melissa. now, you were quick to praise the resignation of secretary shinseki yesterday, and that's fine. sometimes the face of an institution needs to change so that the institution itself can change. but i'm more concerned about your approach to our veterans a few months back. now, i get it, when you look at the numbers associated with taking care of our veterans, it can be daunting. the number of veterans right now in the united states is almost 22 million.

nearly 9 million veterans are currently enrolled in the va health care system, and that system includes more than 1,270 va vet centers, hospitals and outpatient clinics. now, according to the va inspector general's report, 42 of those facilities are under investigation for possible neglect to veterans' care. which is why, senator mcconnell, i want to bring you back to this moment. this year's state of the union address in january and the standing ovation for army ranger sergeant first class cory remsburg who was severely injured by a roadside bomb during his tenth deployment, a standing ovation from everyone, democrats, republicans. it was a moment that made us feel at least on this point, at the point of supporting our veterans as though we had unity. but then, nearly one month later, you and your republican senate colleagues opposed a bill

introduced by bernie sanders, chairman of the senate committee on veterans affairs. a $20 billion bill that would have helped care for and educate our military men and women. >> i don't think our veterans want their programs to be enhanced if every penny of the money that's going to enhance those programs is added to the debt of the united states of america. >> a bill that was not considered in committee, greatly expands spending without any realistic offset and would vastly overwhelm the veterans administration health care system. >> overwhelm the veterans administration health care system? senator sanders bill is designed to expand veterans health programs, give veterans in-state tuition rates at all schools across the country and provide advanced appropriations for the department of veteran affairs. but, senator mcconnell, as you well know, the bill never even had a chance because you and your republican colleagues blocked it with a procedural move, garnering 41 votes to prevent the funding for veterans

from getting an up or down vote. but i want to come back to general shinseki. when the va scandal broke and exposed the neglect our veterans faced, one of your early comments on the story was this. >> while it's certainly been an embarrassing period for the va, it's been a stunning period of dysfunction. >> well, there's one thing we can agree on, senator. it has been a stunning period of dysfunction and an embarrassment, but not just for the va, for the entire country and, yes, senator, for the congress. it is not enough for congress to stand and applaud a wounded veteran in its midst. congress must use its power of the purse to provide the support and resources our veterans need, deserve and have earned. will it cost money, senator? yes. but aren't our veterans worth it? sincerely, melissa. ♪

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in the spring of 1992 when i was a sophomore english major at wake forest university, i took a course with dr. maya angelou. in doing so i became one of hundreds of wake forest students who were privileged to encounter dr. angelou in the intimacy of a small class during the more than three decades she thought on our beloved campus. over those years she gathered us to read great works and pushed us to engage in hard conversations and forced us to require more of ourselves than we thought possible. she taught us many lessons. so on wednesday, after dr. angelou's passing at the age of 86, we college friends began reaching out across the miles by phone and text, e-mail and facebook. we comforted each other for the loss of our great teacher and reminded each other of the hilarity and humility we experienced in her classroom. before i was even 20 years old, dr. angelou became much more than a classroom teacher to me.

she invited me to work for her as her student assistant. i helped with office tasks and was responsible for assisting her in responding to the hundreds of fan letters that arrived weekly. i was working for her in january of 1993 when she delivered on the pulse of morning for the first inauguration of president bill clinton. as a student worker, i had a front row seat to the massive public response to her historic poetic offering. now, the income i earned working for dr. angelou allowed me to pay some of my college fees, but that is not what i remember from those years. dr. angelou included me in her holiday meals. she afforded me opportunities to travel. she guided my choice of graduate school and years later she even hosted by wedding reception at her home. i was 18 when i met dr. angelou. i knew nothing and didn't even have enough sense to know that i knew so little. she simply could have graded my papers and sent me away, but instead she became my beloved

mentor and guide. her generosity was unparalleled, but she wasn't even a little bit sentimental. dr. angelou is the reason i believed it was possible to be a teacher and a writer and a parent and to have a public persona. she was -- she is my model of how to fully live and to do so with integrity. it has been exactly 20 years since i graduated from wake forest. and it was a may morning in winston-salem, north carolina. and just last month, i accepted a position to return there as a professor of political science. now, i have taught at incredible universities, but wake forest, that place that brought me to the feet of dr. maya angelou beck ons to me like no other, and i still cannot believe that i'm going to have to be there without her. i am still her student. i am still seeking her counsel. because we who shared her classroom, we know she's an author and an artist and an

activist of the world. but we also kind of believe that there's a part of her that belongs just to us. in september of 2012, dr. angelou invited me once again to her home for what i now know was the last time, and i had the opportunity to sit down with her for a wide-ranging interview. here's part of that interview. >> i took your class when i was a sophomore here at wake forest. >> yes. >> and i will never forget two important lessons, and i wanted to ask you about both of them. >> please. >> the first is the lesson that courage is the most important virtue, because without it, nothing else can be practiced consistently. >> that's right. your memory is good. >> i have said it to myself over and over for 20 years. when you look at our current world, do we lack courage?

>> yes, we lack courage, particularly because we are not wise enough to try to educate ourselves so that we really can develop courage. so we act like cowards. we sit in rooms where people use pejoratives, regional pejoratives or sexual pejoratives, where people assault and beleaguer. we just sit there like numb skulls instead of taking up because whoever is being asailed, that's you, nitwit, so you should say, excuse me, just a minute, i can't -- i won't sit in this room when people are

being assailed. those are human beings and i'm a human being. so i must take up and support this person. you say he's too skinny, he's fat, he's thin, he's stupid, bad teeth. i mean wait a minute. the statement is i am a human being. nothing human can be alien to me. and if you know that, then you have enough courage -- develop enough courage so that you can stand up for somebody. and maybe you don't know it at the time, but you're really standing up for yourself. it's the human in you. it's the kindness in you that allows you to be courageous. so you develop courage in small ways. you say i will not be called this, because i'm a woman, i'm not a b.

because i'm black, i'm not an n. because i'm an american, i'm not a fool or a murderer. i'm not that. you have to develop ways so that you can take up for yourself. and then you take up for someone else. and so sooner or later, you have enough courage to really stand up for the human race and say i'm a representative. >> you've also always said that words are things. when i look at our current political environment, i see a lack of courage, i see us turning our opponents into enemies, nonhuman people, and i see us using our words as weapons. is there some lesson for our political world that we can gain? >> i don't know how we can after the fact, after the election, how we can look at each other with friendly eyes having for

all intents and purpose cursed each other out and said that this person is not really -- this person is a liar, a brute. this person is a fraud. and then the elections will take place and then we have to work together in the house of representatives or in the senate or in the supermarket. i think it's fair and proper to explain your point of view and what you hope to achieve. that's fair. but that doesn't mean then to say of the other person who has another agenda that he's a brute or she's a terrible word. that's stupid. what breaks my heart is to think what would our nation be like if we dared to be intelligent, if we dared to allow our intelligence to dictate our

movements, our actions. can you imagine? >> a lot of times in politics, we hear about the idea of the big tent. the first actual big tent i ever experienced was at your home at thanksgiving. and you had put up a big tent and invite everyone. >> yes. >> is there any possibility that that lesson of our inherent equality under a big tent can become part of our politics? >> dr. perry, i pray so, that's why i'm doing this interview. that's why i write my books and go and lecture. i have something to say. and i pray that what i have to say will encourage the coming of this millennium you're speaking of when we really will have enough courage to be courageous.

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do you remember middle school? the pressure to fit in? sometimes that pressure can be so intense, kids may avoid making friends with anyone who's different. not our foot soldiers. they are among the best friends any sixth grader could have. this past fall, andre was a new sixth grader in texas. he's also a student with a visual impairment. when he arrived at his new school, he spent about 12 weeks walking through the building side by side with his mobility specialist in order to get to know his way around. friends of andre's noticed getting around could be difficult for him and wanted to come up with a way to make it easier. and now this summer they'll be an app for that. six students at the middle school created the concept for a mobile application that will help people with visual impairments navigate new spaces

by combining compass, voiceover and mapping technology. their work is paying off. this all girls team became one of eight groups to win the verizon innovative app challenge. earning a grant for stem education at their school. the challenge called for students across the nation to come up with fresh concepts for apps that solve problems in their community by putting stem skills to work. the competition which received 770 app concepts this year is designed to pique student's interests in engineering and math, professional fields where women make up only 24% of the workforce. the texas students, led by their teacher, call their app, hello, navi, short for navigation. this week, the students visited washington, d.c. to participate in the annual white house science fair. they were able to meet other young innovators and show off

their new invention for the president, who recognized the riesaca students for their creation. >> he was explaining if he goes from middle school to high school, he has to essentially memorize and track his surroundings. and this app is helping him do that. and so not only do these young ladies have big brains, but they've also got big hearts. >> after two months of designing and coding with help from an mit consultant, the girls completed the product, allowing hello navi to hit virtual stands at google play in early june. for using their stem skills to help a friend and many others, proving that there really is an app for almost anything if you have the heart for it. the teacher and the middle school innovators are our foot soldiers of the week. that's our show today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you tomorrow morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now, it's time for a

preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> we are going to look at seattle and a move that city is expected to make monday that could change the lives of many working class americans. it is turning into one of the most biggest lucrative scavenge hunts ever. someone hiding envelopes of cash in big cities. it's expected to spread today. we are getting a lot of reaction to my twitter question about edward snowden. i'm going to bring you some of those responses. plus, a story involving golfer phil mickelson. some time?

the next time you rent a dvd, don't bother rewinding it. the way i see it, it's the next guy's problem. oh, larry. she thinks i'm crazy. mm-hmm. but would a crazy person save 15% on car insurance in just 15 minutes? [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] 15 minutes for a quote is crazy. with esurance, 7½ minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. a developing story in the past few hours. we've gotten reaction from pro golfer phil mickelson to a report about an fbi investigation that he is a part of. now, the fallout. new and alarming numbers today on the scope of the va hospital scandal. will talk with someone who says a family member died waiting for care. some of the greatest works of art now free to everyone, but the move by a famous museum is

stirring a legal battle. they have huge debt and their job prospects are gloomy. why are their dispositions so sunny? you're going to hear from some millennials heading into the real world. hey, to everyone. it's high noon in the east. developing now, there's new reaction from pro golfer phil mickelson about a "wall street journal" report claiming he is part of an insider trading investigation. who then may have passed it on to mickelson. investigators reportedly want to know if that knowledge was used to improperly trade the stock. he has released a statement saying, i've done nothing wrong, i've cooperated with the government in this investigation. under the current circumstances,