when you fell from heaven (awkward laugh) ...a little.. (laughs) im sorry, i have to go. at&t is building you a better network. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. the parents of newly-freed sergeant bowe bergdahl have just wrapped up an emotional press conference and a plea for time to let beau heal. others have turned it into a political football. >> the united states of america does not ever leave our men and women in uniform behind. five years after taken captive, bowe bergdahl was freed this weekend. it's wonderful bergdahl's been freed but this was a badly misguided policy. >> sergeant bergdahl wasn't simply a hostage, he was an american prisoner of war captured on the battlefield. >> this was essentially, in our

opinion, to save the life of sergeant bergdahl. >> we save an american life on foreign soil, the president and foreign policy gets criticized. >> you now are going to have five people potentially on the ground targeting american troops, afghan troops and the afghan people. >> they sent a clear message. kidnap americans, we'll pay you for it. >> are you seeing a theme here? it's politics. >> this is a guy who probably went through hell the last five years. let's focus on getting him well and getting him back with his family. >> it's a good day. >> yes, it's a good day. the celebration is under way in sergeant bowe bergdahl's hometown of hailey, idaho where his parents have just returned. moments ago beau's mother and father gave a news conference expressing their gratitude for beau's release, the pride they have for their son and the road

ahead. >> i'm so looking forward to seeing your face after these last 5 1/2 years. long, long years. and to giving you a great big bear hug and holding you in my arms again. never wanting to let you go. >> we haven't talked to beau yet. we haven't called him on the phone. there's reason for that and that's because beau has been gone so long, that it is going to be very difficult to come back. i'm proud of how much you wanted to help the afghan people and what you were willing to do to go to that length. >> earlier today their son beau arrived at the landstuhl regional medical center in germany. he'll remain there until doctors determine that he is well enough to return to the united states. bergdahl is expected to undergo a reintegration process described by one senior defense official as time for had him to tell his story, decompress and recorrect with his family

through telephone calls and video conferences. something his father just said is a work in progress. joining me now, nbc news terrorism analyst evan kohlmann. editor at large for the atlantic, steve clemens. nbc's new senior critical report, perry bacon, and nbc political contributor goalie taylor and from "the washington post," ann garen. i thought it was interesting in the press conference, it is clear the parents understand that this is going to be a very long process for their son. >> i thought it was a very healthy thing they were doing. we live in a time where everybody wants instant answers, instant attention, instant grabbing of this soldier that's just been brought out of really dark place. i think the parents did a very noble thing. we've seen so many cases of people who have been at war, in combat, come back, thrust back into society without the kind of prep time and decompression which the parents are saying in this case he needs and deserves.

>> to that point, just regular soldiers coming home from a deployment, we know there is a reintegration process and there is a sort of decompression process. i can only imagine that this is three or four times to kind of process. >> it will and rigorous process. we don't know what his captivity was like but imagine yourself in a box for five years and how you would have to reintegrate into a civilian world of any kind. so coming back to the united states especially under the pressure of social media today, of the 24/7 media cycle that, quite frankly, did not exist to this extent when he was initially held captive. my son is 22. this young man was 23 years old when he was held captive. i cannot imagine what my son would be like coming back but i know as a parent and a former marine i would do everything in my power to make sure that transition was as smooth as possible but no doubt el vae to go through some debriefings and understand how it was he came to be in taliban hands, as well as

what happened to him during that process and what he may have picked up during that process. all of that will unfold on the military's time and on the time of our national security interests. >> evan, to that point, clearly one of the things that the parents talked a lot about and we know a lot of people were involved in this. my understanding is that the operation to recover him obviously relied on a lot of intelligence gathering. i would imagine sort of bringing him home, as goldie was just saying, they'll want to try to debrief and try to get a sense from the intelligence side of what he may or may not know. >> there is still a bit of a mystery about how exactly he fell into taliban hands to begin with. that's a complicated story. not that it matters that much now but nonetheless, it is going to be a complicated story. he needs to talk with military interrogators and explain all that. beyond that, there's so much that he may have witnessed while in the custody of the taliban, even small things that may be intensely valuable to us. the taliban are not monolitic.

there are groups within each other that disagree. having an eyewitness having seen this firsthand undoubtedly he must have seen information during that time which would be value to us if we can extract it and if it is still timely. >> what would that process look like? i know they talk about some of this process is going to clearly take place in germany. then it sounds like maybe some of it will take place when they bring him back to the states which i guess mao it will be san antonio, the medical center there, at first. >> the number one priority is making sure that his health is stable. that's the number one issue. i think once they've gotten him to texas, once they've gotten his health stable, once he's met with his family, i'm sure there will be opportunities for them to talk with him and figure out what exactly he knows that can still be of value to the u.s. effort in afghanistan, what he knows that he's gained that could be valuable and in trying to stop the people that kidnapped him from kidnapping other people again or from hurting other people again. >> we have another piece of sound from that press conference. let's take a listen. >> beau, when you hear this, and

eventually you will hear this, you have a very devoted team around you. right now in germany, listen to their instructions, we sent them. these are hand-picked people. we are he's on first-name basis with these people. they are true. they know what they're doing. they're here to help you, and they have our great gratitude. >> ann, i'm going to come to you. one of the things that i thought was so interesting in this press conference was the father's sort of making that point that the people that beau would find around him were -- we sent them, we're on a first-name basis with them. clearly that is trying to re-assure his son, i'm assuming that that is, in part, because they are expecting some degree of just disorientation. >> sure. disorientation and some perhaps

skepticism on the part of bowe bergdahl of who he is now dealing with and what might lie in store for him now that he is fully back within the embrace of the u.s. military. you referred a little bit ago to the uncertain circumstances under which he was captured. and if in fact he did walk away from his base, if he went awol, then he may be worried that he faces the consequences of that. prosecution or anger from the military. chuck hagel today indicated this is a kid who suffered enough. nothing further will happen to him. there are lots of u.s. officials saying the same. on background, it seems unlikely he would be prosecuted for desertion if in fact the military thinks that's what happened. but if you're bowe bergdahl, he's so much has happened to him

in the last 24 hours to have his father say directly to him, you're safe, the people around you are going to take care of you, will probably go a long way. >> that message of what secretary hagel said today about sort of this kid has been through enough, i would imagine that is also to help re-assure his parents that this young man is not going to face any kind of prosecution coming home but that the real goal, as everybody's talked about, is helping him reintegrate and helping him just come home. >> you said the message we're looking to welcome him back. you can tell the parents felt that way, too. they were very eloquent talking about how they were speaking to him more than us in a lot of ways. i thought it was a really important part of the press conference. >> steve, one of the things i found interesting -- you don't get to hear this very often -- was a thank you to the government and -- because again, talking about the number of resources. you saw the team of people sitting there and the father made mention of the psychiatrist who had been with them for four years.

so clearly the government's put a lot of resources into helping this family cope over the last five years. >> there's been an out of the public eye effort to get this young man out of his captivity for a long period of tile. i didn't know that, i don't know if my colleagues knew that. but it is sort of assuring in many ways. i think chuck hagel and susan rice, john kerry and others have spoken to this, all talked about this very long commitment that we don't leave people behind, it is a sacred duty to bring them back, et cetera. those sound like great words. it is another thing to begin looking at thow deep that commitment is and what is required to do that. despite the controversy others say may still lurk out there, that they were still very committed to getting this person back home. >> i would think in terms of morale, we talked about this a little bit yesterday when we first learned of his morale, this message that we don't eve anyone behind, if you are still in afghanistan, that is a good message to hear as a soldier. >> absolutely.

i've always known that whether you served a day or a thousand days, we were not going to leave you behind without exhausting all of our best efforts to bring you home. i've heard the controversy around how he may or may not have departed his base and fell into taliban hands. none of that matters. he is still ours. until he is adjudicated otherwise. until he renounces his united states citizenship, until he becomes an enemy combatant, he belongs to us which means we will go and get him no matter what the cost. so i believe that this administration certainly did the right thing. you notice during the president's west point speech earlier this week he did not mention the taliban? he name-checked al qaeda a number of times. but you had to know looking back that even then this president knew that something was in the offing and that he was taking the right kind of care in making certain that bowe bergdahl made it home. >> final question to you, evan. what do you make of the language issue? it was interesting, both yesterday and today you heard

his father -- pashtun -- in tod today's version he said you're safe. >> he's been isolated with taliban members, most of whom speak english. guess what? he doesn't speak english that well either anymore. that's not unusual. that happens when people are isolated in environments where they are forced to learn a new language, they forget english. it may take him some time to get back into the habit of speaking english, of living an american lifestyle. we see that honestly even with soldiers deployed abroad, never mind people that have been in enemy captivity now for years. look, he's going to need some time. i think anybody would need some time given what he's been through. >> sounds like hopefully he may actually get that time. my panel is sticking with me. coming up, how the release of sergeant bergdahl has become contentious among many on the right if washington. stay with us. 7

in refining and perfecting the rich, never bitter taste of gevalia. and we do it all for this very experience. this very second. this exact moment. [woman] that's good. i know right? cheers to that. gevalia. 150 years of rich, never bitter coffee. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. when jake and i first set out on we ate anything. but in time you realize the better you eat, the better you feel. these days we both eat smarter. and i give jake purina cat chow naturals. made with real chicken and salmon, it's high in protein like a cat's natural diet. and no added artificial flavors.

we've come a long way. and whatever's ahead, we'll be there for each other. naturally. purina cat chow naturals. smoke? nah, i'm good. [ male announcer ] celebrate every win with nicoderm cq, the unique patch with time release smartcontrol technology that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. help prevent your cravings with nicoderm cq. that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase i make a lot of purchases for my business. like 60,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.

. we are continuing our breaking news coverage this afternoon as sergeant bowe bergdahl makes his way home to the united states. but it is the price of bergdahl's freedom that's now being questioned by some. and exchange for sergeant bergdahl's release, the u.s. government freed five senior taliban officials being held at the military detention center in guantanamo bay, cuba. since the months following the 9/11 attacks. the qatari government who acted as an intermediary in the negotiations also committed to put measures in place to protect america's national security. the five former prisoners will live in qatar with their families under a number of restrictions. but among the criticisms of the deal are concerns about those five taliban leaders and the potential of setting a precedent in the event of future hostage taking of american soldiers and civilians overseas. house intelligence committee mike rogers spoke to candy crowley on cnn this morning.

>> if you negotiate here, you've sent a message to every al qaeda group in the world that says, by the way, some who are holding you u.s. hostages today, that there is some value now in that hostage in a way that they didn't have before. that is dangerous. >> in response to the krcritici and concerns raised, secretary of defense, chuck hagel, and others reiterated the unique circumstances that led to the negotiations and the growing concerns about bergdahl's health. >> this was essentially, in our opinion, to save the life of sergeant bergdahl. as i said before, we had information that his health could be deteriorating rapidly. there was a question about his safety. we found an opportunity. we took that opportunity. i'll stand by that decision. i signed off on the decision. the president made the ultimate decision. >> goldie, steve, perry, evan

and anne are back with us. here's where i want to start, evan, with you. how great of a concern is it about who these five folks are, these five taliban members? >> well, look. you always have to make difficult decisions when it comes to making peace. that's what peace is about, making difficult decisions. but looking at these individuals, there is valid reason for concern. at least two of these individuals may be facing united nations charges for the massacre of thousands of innocent people, civilians, in northern afghanistan during the 1990s. one of them, his brother-in-law, is named "the butcher of host." another one, his brother is a senior taliban commander right to you. these individuals do have ties to al qaeda. at least one of them was closely associated with al qaeda. . another one, according to the pentagon, took orders from osama bin laden. so, look. sometimes you have to pay a price in order to achieve peace. but when you look at the history of how we've done this in the past -- we've done this in the past. we've released detainees to

saudi arabia, right next to qatar. unfortunately, a large number of those detainees, even though they were in saudi custody and they weren't given a year period where they couldn't travel. they couldn't travel period. they still went to yemen, created the same al qaeda franchise responsible for the underwear bomb plot, the cargo bomb plot. so look, these guys are afghans. they're not al qaeda. they're the taliban. but nonetheless, we can't be blind to the fact that there is risk here. maybe it was a good risk. but we took a risk in sending these guys back. >> steve, to this point, how confident are you that the qatari government is going to be able to make good on their part of the deal which is, as i understand, they will stay in qatar for a year and there are some other conditions that we're still learning about. how confident are you that they will be able to keep up that part of the bargain? >> qatar's credibility is on the line and has been on the line for a while. it's become the place where there are conduits for a whole variety of players, not just the united states but other players

in the palestinians, hamas and fatah. ourselves and the taliban trying to sort of do business or find a way to negotiate with folks that we don't talk to. increasingly, qatar is emerginging a the platform by which that can happen. there is a new amir of qatar, he's a young man. he's been trying to reach the president of the united states and connect. a new foreign minister has been working on this issue quite feverishly. i think they're trying to show that they matter. i think their credibility being on the line is what helps assure that they will try to assure that what evan just laid out doesn't necessarily happen. but we have to understand, we're drawing down in afghanistan. afghanistan sr. has a lot of creepy, awful people. they have a lot of folks that are taliban but they have keepy, awful people who aren't taliban. that nation has been won by warlords forever that have slaughtered lots of folks. it is a messy place, so there are lots of shades of grey.

what matters is can you send a signal to the taliban that we can deal responsibly with you, we're going to be drawing down. can that possibly give us an opportunity strategically to get to a different equilibrium in afghanistan. it is a mistake to look at this as just one soldier for five people held in guantanamo. the bigger issue is what are the strategic echo effects. >> to that point, one of the things we are learning about the negotiations themselves and sort of the conditions that came about that enabled essentially this window of opportunity that we're hearing so much about, what's your take on that? >> well, many things changed. these same five guys have been on the table at least in theory for more than two years. but two years ago the taliban wasn't interested in the deal. negotiations broke down. they stopped and started several times. but until last fall, the u.s. view was that this trade was really -- if it was ever going to happen, many other things had

to change, including taliban willingness to negotiate only for those five guys and on terms that, until that point, they had rejected. since then, several things happened, including that the u.s. sweetened the deal a bit. qatar gave assurances that it hadn't fully given before. we're this much closer to the full withdrawal of u.s. forces, hamid karzai is no longer a big factor. now he had disrupted these talks several times, blown the cover of them and sort of inserted himself in a ways that the u.s. found troublesome. all of those things are different. i think one of the major big things that's changed just in the last few weeks is that the u.s. has signaled that the haqqani network that was actually holding bowe bergdahl is no longer a prime target. the president's speech just this last week talked about al qaeda, al qaeda, al qaeda. did not talk about the taliban.

certainly did not talk about the haqqanis. it is not as if the haqqanis attacked us we wouldn't fight back, but they're no longer in the crosshairs of the u.s. military in afghanistan. and so that may have allowed they will to step forward in a way that they really hadn't before. >> evan, help us understand why that's significant and also to this issue -- i mean the criticism from the right thus far, one of them has been the u.s. does not negotiate with terrorists and the response that we've heard from the administration is, well, we didn't. we were working through the qataris. what's the significance of some of these shifts going on? >> i think the real hope here is that we're going to get an avalanche started by moving one rock, we can start the process by which radical factions within the taliban that refuse to talk with the united states, that refuse to negotiate peace with the united states, perhaps they will see, wait, hold on a second, there is common ground here, maybe we don't like these people or agree with their foreign policy but we can still agree on peace. there was a hope that this can

stimulate those factions, push the extremists to the side and empower the people that are the people we can actually work with by giving them legitimacy. will this work? we don't really know. i think this goes back to the haqqani network. i don't know why we're not targeting the haqqani network now because they are certainly targeting us. they've carried out a range of high-profile attacks just in the last year inside of kabul and in other areas. maybe they've in the last couple of days have stopped launching attacks but in the last few months they have been behind significant incidents that have targeted u.s. nationals' interests in afghanistan. so maybe this is a strategy decision, but again, we have to be -- we have to go with eyes open here and understand what the stakes are. these folks are not our friends. we can work with them, perhaps negotiate peace but they will never be our friends. >> goldie, to that point. strikes me that -- steve, weigh in here, too -- that's part of the complexity of the region. right? today they're our friends, tomorrow they're not. maybe we can work with them to

get this done and work with these guys to get that done. there aren't the same kind of clear lines we might have expected in previous engagements. >> we were allied with haqqani in the afghan war. we had the former head of saudi intelligence and saudi ambassador in the united states. when things were going badly in afghanistan said we need to rediscover that old alliance with the haqqani network. so they were our pals at one point, at least for that. now they're not. maybe we're seeing another twist in history. >> not so long ago ronald reagan was having the taliban over for tea. we have to deal with that as it presents itself to us. to the extent this presents a new opportunity for us, a new way to open up channels of communications with those that we may not have had had such open lines with before, then that's a good thing. but the very notion that this negotiation, whether with qatari directly or with the taliban, that this would open up more kidnappings, more captive u.s.

soldiers, think is a misnomer. to think that they are going to do more today than they did yesterday i think is a falsity. i think that to say they're going to be less passionate about whatever their principles and. values happen to be tomorrow than they were yesterday? i think, frankly, is a mistake. i think that we have to take each day as it comes an realize that all of these are evolving and shifting relationships. >> not to mention that after 11 years we have to start considering other solutions that are not military. there is no obvious military solution that's going to solve this problem. so it is worth considering other alternatives even if they are kiss risky. >> final point to you, perry. we heard this morning charges that the administration broke the law because they didn't give congress the notification that they felt they deserved. then we hear from the administration there were exigent circumstances. i would predict if i were going to forecast -- this segment is called "the forecast." i also heard "we're going to have hearings."

i suspect this is not the last we have heard about this and that the republicans will certainly -- certainly some democrats, but i think you'll see it coming more from the conservatives, are going to use this to go after the administration to sort of ask some of these questions. >> republicans criticizing obama is not new. . but in this case there is a core that's screaming about what's happening in afghanistan. i think you saw in the president's speech this week. drawdown is not one the republicans feel like. they feel like his afghanistan policy is moving too quickly and not aggressive enough. i think there is a core policy disagreement here that you will hear through these hearings and also through other means as well. >> i can't wait. all right. thank you to ann and evan. the rest of our panel will be back. still ahead, 34 pages on benghazi that have left many republicans obsessed. that's coming up. p an ounce, wash in sweet dreams with tide, downy, and bounce. the sweet dreams collection has scents so relaxing so you can tuck in and turn off after a day oh so taxing. ♪ [ click ]

[ ding dong ] [ male announcer ] you can get great discounts on 1-800-flowers.com... oh... [ male announcer ] roadside assistance from allstate, and avis, budget and budget truck. all in one place. aarpdiscounts.com. popcorn. [ male announcer ] find offers from regal cinemas,

walgreens, and kellogg's... they're great! [ male announcer ] ...and on exciting entertainment [ taxi whistle ] come on, guys, the millers just got their cards, too! [ male announcer ] check out the possibilities. aarpdiscounts.com. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ]

[ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ up next, it isn't out until june 10th, but excerpts from hillary clinton's upcoming book have gotten karl rove and his friends on the right owl aflutter. much more "disrupt" coming up after this.

we need it right away! we cannot let the fans down. don't worry! the united states postal service will get it there on time with priority mail flat rate shipping. our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service. but they don't yet know we're a family. we're right where you need us. at the next job, next adventure or at the next exit helping you explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. 12 brands. more hotels than anyone else in the world. so wherever you want to be, whatever you want to do, chances are we're already there. save up to 25% and earn bonus points

when you book at wyndhamrewards.com.

so we already knew that karl rove and the gop are obsessed, if not a little terrified, by the prospect of former secretary of state hillary clinton running for president. well, earlier this week, rove followed up on his concerns about her brain and her age with a column explaining why she just can't win in 2016. and then, a chapter. no, "the" chapter. fox, carl and company have been waiting for it. it was leaked from her upcoming book, "hard choices. "it was the benghazi chapter. today on the sunday talk shows rnc chair renz preebz and senator tom cruise had their points ready. >> senator clinton is politics 24/7. this is no different. this will not end. we'll continue to pursue this and she needs to answer the tough questions as to what happened. >> the sad thing with secretary

clinton is that it seems to be all politics all the time, from what we know about this book chapter, it's pure political spin and she's more focused on blaming the so-called vast right wing conspiracy than on the terrorists. >> right. okay, well goldie, steve, perry, back with us and jonathan allen joins us, co-author of the "new york times" best seller, "hrc." appropriate to this conversation. so i'm going to start with you, jonathan. playing politics here? really? she's playing politics. we just heard these two guys with the same talking points. >> yeah. the idea that senator cruz is above politics in this is a little marred to take. obviously he's being just as political as everybody else in the republican party is in terms of trying to make this an issue for her in 2016. i do think that there are some legitimate questions about american foreign policy and the extent to which we do expeditionary sploemcy and whether the state department was heeding warningings from libya

how much more dangerous benghazi was becoming. i think some people in the republican party have been serious about trying to talk about those things. >> who are those people? i'm kidding. >> well, a congressman from utah brought up some of the more global issues. but the truth is most of what's going on from the republican party right now is trying to drag hillary clinton into that 2016 presidential race as early as possible. talking about karl rove before the talk about whether she'd suffered a brain injury. they want to get her responding as a politician and try and get her to not be running for office without being a politician which is what she's been doing for quite a while now. >> goldie, i want to show you something. hillary said, i will not be part after political slugfest on the backs of dead americans. it is just plain wrong and it is unworthy of our great country. those who insist on politicizing the tragedy will have to do so without me. but then let's take a look at some of the fund-raising if we're going to talk about who is politicizing who here. we've got a screen shot of some of the websites. the fund-raising that the various sites have done.

then there is this ad. i'll play a little sound for you. >> four americans were killed by terrorists. what happened? requests for more security denied. talking points altered. our nation lied to. >> what difference at this point does it make? >> it made no difference to christine jones. two months later she said hillary clinton will continue to stand out as a capable, respected leader. jones praised clinton. americans will realize what an effective secretary of state clinton was. the incredibly high standard she set. these are christine jones' standards. are they yours? >> it was an ad for a woman named christine jones in arizona. they're trying to use benghazi against other candidates for 2014. >> first of all, every time i see that clip of hillary clinton i say do it for the vine, hillary. at the end of the day if this were not about politics, we would be talking about, as you said, the security issues surrounding benghazi. we would be talking about what led up to such an attack, what

we could do on the back end of this thing to preclude future attacks to make sure that our security apparatuses around the world are in better step with our values in terms of locking down our personnel andmakering sure that they're going to come home safely. if this were about that -- but it isn't. this is about $5, $10, $1,500 donations, this is about people knocking door to door this fall because this kind of thing works for the base. that's why they're going to use the bowe bergdahl issue this fall. they'll use benghazi this fall. you'll see the return of the irs so-called scandal this fall. you're not just going to see it in 2016. you'll see it right here in 2014. you'll see barack obama and hillary clinton looped into fall campaign ads that really do work for the base just like ted kennedy used to be used every time a southern democrat would operate, they would rope it around ted kennedy. that's what's happening here. this is base politics at its very worst. it is not to say that democrats haven't been guilty of this stuff in cycles past.

but today, it is republican ball game day. >> to that point, perry, it strikes me, was it a good thing then for them to leak -- we all -- but to leak it to a reporter and get it out early sort of as a prebuttal, but to the actual release of the book on june 10th? >> hillary clinton is playing politics, too. this book is being rolled out very carefully. this book is part of a likely presidential campaign. i think the republicans are appropriately obsessed with someone who is running for president who has very high poll ratings. i think they should be obsessed. they should be looking to talk about this. that's why hillary clinton has sort after war room set-up to deal with the attacks in the book. this is the presidential campaign. we are here, unfortunately, really early and it is starting. i think she is right to view benghazi as a potential weakness and therefore something to really deal with. >> here was the other thing i

want to just read a quote from the book. it also struck me this was very prescient with the establishment of the benghazi select committee which just happened to happen. in the book she says, "a regrettable amount of misinformation, speculation and flat-out deceit by some in politician and the media. but new information from a number of reputable sources continues to expand our understanding of these events." strikes me that that is a good prebuttal, that's good information to have out there based on what we've already seen in terms of the intentions of the select committee. >> yeah. i think she's prying not to be overly and disruptively defensive about the select committee which has now been t set. but in my view the benghazi obsession is very much like trying to create a new birther controversy. people hear the word benghazi, for them it translates into a whole lot of other things and asking the basic question of what was going on inside libya after gadhafi was overthrown. what was christopher stevens trying to do in basically bringing together these various factions.

what were the explosive -- i was in tripoly before the fall of moammar gadhafi. the pressure cooker this country had been under for 40 years under this very awful dictator would have said it is not a black and white between a few -- potentially even if they were al qaeda affiliated, it is such a simplistic boiled-down bunch of crap, actually. so i like how she said i'm not going to be allowed drawn into the controversy but she's also said basically this is the new birther game. >> she's also in the chapter tried to address some of the criticisms and attacks and concerns. i think that's very important. again, i think it is smart to have it out there. jonathan, going to karl rove because i can't not talk about karl rove when i talk about hillary clinton. speak of obsession! so there was a "washington post"/abc news poll which showed two-thirds of americans do not approve of him raising questions about her age. i think we have a graphic. the question that i want to ask

you to that point is, isn't there -- so, yes, they are obsessed. maybe they are right to be obsessed, but at this point is it maybe too early to be this obsessed? there is a chance it could swing back and actually hurt them. >> this is something that political operatives really understand. they can throw as much mud as they want and it can be awful for them personally and they're not on the ballot. so hillary clinton's on the ballot. if he can just tail her down just a little bit, it doesn't matter what it does to his reputation which is already not exactly great with most of the american public. so i think that's what's going on here. they're trying to drag her into politics and they succeeded. it was the first time i've seen the clinton people respond to an attack on her directly, her spokesman came out with a pretty strong statement against rove. i think at that level karl rove got what he wanted from the clinton folks. >> well, karl rove has said he doesn't think she can be a candidate, or that she can win. then again you all remember election night of 2012 with karl rove. the panel is sticking with me.

still ahead, defining duplicity ahead. i'll explain coming up. with diabetes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [male announcer] glucerna...

nbr: scott, man - we're here 'cuz we love you. you fed your lawn earlier this spring and now you're at it again. we're concerned. scott: (chuckles) thanks neighbors, but summer's on its way. and while the grass may look bonnie green and lovely now, it still needs a late-spring feeding to keep it that way. another feeding now with scotts strengthens and helps defend your lawn from the brutal heat and heavy use to come. nbr: we knew that, right guys? oh yeah... let's go feed!

scott: get scotts turf builder lawn food. feed your lawn. feed it! to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ pcentury link provides reliable yit services like multi-layered security solution to keep your information safe & secure.

century link. your link with what's next. it's not a profile in courage, saying one thing to your beltway buddies and another to constituents. we will explain next. this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or... a mouth breather? well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. (meowright on cue. it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with wholesome ingredients and irresistible taste, it's the only one cats ask for by name. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo!

[ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. first the cookie at check-in. then a little family fun. with breakfast for 4 and wifi. join us for the family fun package. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪

let's talk about duplicity. the merriam-webster dictionary defines the term as, "contradictory doubleness of thought, speech or action, especially the belying of one's true intentions by deceptive words or action." in other words -- >> i think you know my view on obamacare. i'll tell you again. the single worst piece of legislation that's been passed in the last 50 years. driving premiums up, deductibles

up, killing jobs. [ inaudible question ] >> i think that's unconnected to my comments about the overall question here. >> oh, mr. mcconnell got caught on that one. connect would not exist without what he's called the worst legislation passed in the last 50 years. sorry there, mitch, but connect is actually obamacare in kentucky. and that's duplicity to a tee. but senator mcconnell isn't the only gopper with a problem. here's majority leader eric cantor just last year. >> it is time to provide an opportunity for legal residence and citizenship for those who are brought to this country as children and who know no other home. >> then just last week, cantor stressed that he supports legalization for young undocumented immigrants in the military. but that was all in washington. back home where he faces a tea party challenger it is a very different message. here's a mailer that was

actually sent out by his campaign. "conservative republican eric cantor is stopping the obama-reid plan to give illegal aliens amnesty." so which is it, mr. cantor? then speaker boehner reportedly told pro-imgags donors at a las vegas fund-raiser that is he hell-bent on getting immigration reform done. he also appears to be hell-bent on just the opposite in back in washington where the tea party caucus opposes amnesty. this is last week. >> the issue of immigration reform is an issue that i've talk about for 18 months starting the day after the 2012 election. and the fact that congress needs to deal with this. and i made it clear we're not going to deal with the senate bill. a 1,300-page bill that no one has read. >> it is not clear who they think they are fooling but it is clear that duplicity is yet another symptom of a much larger problem that the gop is having. they're struggling to hold on to support of their grass root conservative activists as we saw

on display this weekend at the republican leadership conference, but they also face the reality that they need to be able to appeal to america's more diverse electorate. my panel is back. john, i'm going to start with you. actually, we ended up with rand paul seeming to try to come to mitch mcconnell's aid this week and sort of try to split the baby a little bit between connect in kentucky and obamacare. >> rand paul and mitch mcconnell are the odd couple of republican politics. but they've seen how helping each other can reinforce each one, rand paul helped mcconnell with the base and with some of the libertarians, visa versa, mcconnell helps paul for from the establishment. this happens on the democratic side some, too. their donor base and the people that they're looking to to help out with the 2016 elections are very different than their voters at home on -- in particular on the issue of immigration. where republicans need to more

for 2016 where the chamber of commerce, establishment republicans, want to see an immigration law done and where their voters don't necessarily want that particularly, their base voters. we'll see had that on a bunch of different issues but i think that's the basic thrust of what's going on. >> perry, now specific to obamacare and connect, you spent some time in kentucky and you did some reporting where you talk to people who said, "i hate obamacare but i love connect." for mcconnell who's running obviously, he talks about obamacare in one way but then to try to say that that's not connected to connect, that does seem -- that's a far reach. >> they had this legalistic view. you can have something called kynect. it is an exchange and it doesn't do anything. people in keynect can get you insurance plans and guarantee plans and all these things, subsidies and medicaid. all of that would go away. you can still have something

called keynect. that's their argument. i thought when the primary ended mcconnell would shift to the left more on that view and he is still the loud and proud repeal candidate in a state that has hundreds of people without health insurance. >> with kenect being somewhat popular in kentucky, at least in that exchange he seemed like he got caught off-guard somehow. >> i don't know why. >> but the core question through all his comments is most americans support xroe heecompr immigration reform. the republicans are struggling with how to deal with those popular parts of obamacare. mcconnell's basic position is repeal obamacare but put the good stuff back in. that's where he's trying to head. >> goldie, so both cantor and boehner on immigration i think we sort of saw a little bit

of -- they know their audiences and they know they have to have two different messages but in the 21st century it is all one audience to some degree. >> it really is one audience. there used to be a day, to some extent it exists, i could go political audiences county to county and say different things to different audiences until people started following me with a camera. that kind of thing is happening today. it is almost jarring though to watch seasoned politicians -- and this happened, too, in the context of a single press conference, where they're so jammed up on some basic questions. i mean, look. if we revealed obamacare, we took back aca, that takes back everything good that just happened. kentucky -- the expansion of medicaid, all the things that people love about aca except the name obamacare comes out of kentucky. the same thing is true about comprehensive immigration why you can't really talk to grassroots republicans about a

pathway to citizenship or anything other than maybe a work visa. the donor class really does want to hear this because that's who they're employed. that's who they're counting on for the future of america. but what the grassroots want to do, they're acting out of fear. they want to keep people out of the ballot box. >> steve, to that point, these guys know that that's the difference. right? i think we saw that last point to you. we saw that sort of at the republican leadership conference, haley barbour stood up and sort of talk about we've got to appeal to more diverse audiences. not much applause. then you had another person stand up and say no one asked liberals to compromise their position so why must we compromise on ours. so clearly they know -- >> there is a much deeper issue than just duplicity and one audience. one is the tectonics of the party. i have had grover norquist on stage with rahm emanuel.

in this case the bigger issue is how can you have the pantheon of leadership be calling for immigration reform, yet have you a highly empowered turbo charge faction that's really just disrupting everything. that's the bigger issue. why do they need to be duplicitous? >> we leave it there. my thanks to the panel this afternoon. i will see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. now they're part of our 2 for $25 guest favorites! featuring your all time favorite creamy chicken alfredo and seductive shrimp mezzaluna. it's our most inspired 2 for $25 ever. at olive garden. hey! so i'm looking at my bill, and my fico® credit score's on here. we give you your fico® score each month for free! awesomesauce! wow! the only person i know that says that is...lisa? julie?! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. don't just visit hawaii. visit tripadvisor hawaii.

with millions of reviews, tripadvisor makes any destination better. it's about getting to the finish line. in life, it's how you get there that matters most. it's important to know the difference. like when i found out i had a blood clot in my leg. my doctor said that it could travel to my lungs and become an even bigger problem. and that i had to take action. so he talked to me about xarelto®. [ male announcer ] xarelto® is the first oral prescription blood thinner proven to treat and help prevent dvt and pe that doesn't require regular blood monitoring or changes to your diet. [ brian ] for a prior dvt i took warfarin, which required routine blood testing and dietary restrictions. not this time. ♪ while i was taking xarelto®, i still had to stop racing, but i didn't have to deal with that blood monitoring routine. ♪ you made great time. i found another way.

[ male announcer ] don't stop taking xarelto®, rivaroxaban, unless your doctor tells you to. while taking xarelto®, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious bleeding, and in rare cases, may be fatal. get help right away if you develop unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. xarelto® is proven to reduce the risk of dvt and pe. with xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring and no known dietary restrictions. treatment with xarelto® was the right move for me. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor about xarelto® today. for more information including savings options, download the xarelto® patient center app,

call 1-888-xarelto, or visit teamxarelto.com. around the country -- >> put that gun down or i will kill you! >> -- police officers are trained to expect the unexpected. from harrowing high-speed chases. >> if we got into an accident at those speeds, somebody usually gets terminated. >> to terrifying traffic stops. >> i really thought he was going to run. i certainly had no idea that he was about to pull a gun.