please keep the debate going. head to our facebook page and post your comment. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton, "hardball" starts right now. command decision. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with a new startling video of sergeant bergdahl being handed over by the taliban. since saturday, we've watched a deteriorating picture of the deal that led to his release. in rolling out the news, the white house painted a happy picture of american victory, something of a celebration. our soldier basking in the glory of honorable and distinctive service was coming home to what looked to be a justified price, a national hero, one republican member of congress called him. in exchange we were told five taliban prisoners were being sent to what was described as a

house arrest in qatar. they would have no communication with their fellow warriors in the afghan war front. they'd be out of action, completely out of the fighting for at least a year. today, wednesday, the deal is less joyous, of course, there are huge questions about the soldier we are getting home. was he loyal to the country, did he desert, did we cut too loose a deal with the enemy to get him back? did we let the taliban gain some of its top military commanders to prepare for a final assault on kabul, did we create a firing squad, if you will, against our own troops at our embassy over there and provide other support a year from now when these five johnnys come marching home and are they now involved in war planning in doha? chuck todd is political director for nbc news, host of "the daily rundown" on msnbc and clarence page is a columnist for "the chicago tribune," first, the videos of bergdahl's handoff by

the taliban to special forces. bergdahl is shown here sitting in the back of a pickup truck talking to taliban escorts while waiting for americans arrive. eventually, american special forces do arrive by helicopter. bergdahl and his taliban escort move toward them. you can see the americans briefly shaking hands with the taliban people, and then taking bergdahl back to the helicopter. the americans frisk him, load him on the helicopter and take off. it all takes about a minute on the ground there. chuck, you have a lot of things to do tonight, so i'm going to get your thoughts now. did the white house anticipate today, last saturday, did they know how the picture would deteriorate, the picture we have a bergdahl as a loyal american or not? the picture we have of these taliban detainees as dangerous or not, how's the picture changed, or has it? >> well, look, they thought five days later, if there was going to be a robust debate, if this was going to be a political firestorm, they figured it would almost be solely focused on the decision to release these five

members of the taliban back into, you know, the house arrest in qatar, or whatever you want to call it, that that would be the firestorm, that that would be the debate, that would be a back and forth. they did not anticipate the focus on bergdahl himself. they knew the back story, but there was an assumption that they had, given, you know, perhaps some of the bipartisan calls for trying to find bergdahl that were coming from capitol hill, doing whatever it took to a certain degree to get bergdahl back into u.s. hands, that there wouldn't be this public outcry against him. they also, obviously, didn't do their homework on this front. they thought there would be some members of the military, people who knew bergdahl, that served with bergdahl, that would stand up for him. they have been surprised that basically nobody that's served with him is standing up for him and anybody that did serve with him that's chosen to speak up has been critical of either

bergdahl's service or raised questions about how he disappeared from how he might have ended up in taliban hands. and, in fact, the political infighting, i've had a few aides, and i said this earlier, refer to this, they didn't expect the swift boating of bergdahl, trying to bring back memories of the whole political fight with john kerry back in 2004 -- >> speaking of john kerry -- no, no, swift boating is totally misused, it's when you make up stories and misconstrue the evidence, you don't like the way john kerry opposed the vietnam war and turned it into an attack on his service over there. totally dishonest. these are questions raised about a guy who left post, left letters, didn't believe in the war effort, and we don't know what's worse here, but the idea -- where's the dishonesty and portrayal of bergdahl so far, i haven't seen it. what's been misconstrued so far? there have been questions raised, most americans do have questions. >> chris, i understand, this is

not my portrayal, i'm simply reporting to you how the white house is viewing this. now, there is a part of the white house that thinks, hey, and you've heard it from defense officials, give bergdahl time to tell his side of the story and they believe at a minimum it's been unfair that bergdahl hasn't been able to give his side of the story, that we don't know his version of the events, of the circumstances that got him into the hands of the taliban, and that's why they are calling this a swift boat, that it's a one-sided -- what's happened right now, chris, this is a big political fight all of a sudden and everybody is in their corners, red corner and the blue corner. >> a lot of good people in that white house around the president didn't want to make this deal, including hillary clinton, which is a highly important fact here. now she's going along with it because she's a team player and back the president, because he's going to back her when she runs, obviously. panetta was against, defense team was against it, the idea they did this so easily, why did

they think it would be an easy rollout if so many smart people opposed the deal on the democrats side? >> well, you got to remember the timing of the deal here. in 2011 the reason clapper, the head of the intelligence, panetta, and hillary clinton opposed this deal, because there was concern that these five members of the taliban would have an opportunity to get back into the fight. the reason now both clapper and in this case hagel agreed to go along with this version of the plan, because as the white house has outlined it, these five guys are in qatar for a year. by the time they end up back in afghanistan, u.s. forces are basically out of the country and the war is essentially over. that is their rationale of the difference between '11 and today. >> okay, look, i'd like to believe that, but everything we've gotten today from different sources is they are already back in taliban headquarters in doha, hanging around with each other, direct contact with taliban, in the taliban. this idea they've been

sequestered and put in a time-out like in grade school, they are not in any time-out. they are already collaborating with the enemy, they are the enemy. look at the pictures there. they are back home. johnny has marched home. these are the top commanders, this guy was the chief of staff of the army. wasn't some guy picked up in the field, he was head of the army, another was a top security guy, top intelligence guys, top interior minister. these are top leaders they hand picked they wanted back to help take over kabul. isn't that clear to everybody? >> there is, but -- >> this was strategic. >> but there's also another aspect to this. hang on, don't forget, the u.s. government has been trying to start peace talks with the taliban, even the afghan government is trying to have peace talks with the taliban. at some point, these five guys were going to get returned, and there was an interesting comment today from the state department spokesperson. i've heard this comment, this rationale behind the scenes, first time i've heard it publicly, over at the state department, well, we were going

to be releasing these guys at some point in the next year, we might as well as gotten something for them, and this is a reminder, chris, at some point, we didn't have a legal reason to keep them anymore, they weren't being brought up in any specific charges. they were scooped up early in this war, very early. in the in the middle of it. >> we're still in a war that they are fighting. we may say we're ending the war, but as long as the taliban is fighting the war and we're stuck in kabul in our embassies and diplomatic services and support troops are still there, we are targets of the taliban. how can we say the war's over, let these guys go, how can we say the war's over when it ain't over? >> chris, you're putting me in the position i'm somehow part 6 of a decision making process, i'm not. >> these are reasonable questions and i wish the republicans -- this is a hopeless hope, they wouldn't turn everything into their list of hell they love, the same

charm bracelet they put everything on, but the fact is, they are going to do it, but i'm still going to say what i have to say, i wonder about this deal, i don't think it looks as rosy as it did on saturday and i wonder why they thought it was just another lousy rollout. >> chris, i guess what i would come back to you on this front is, if the war is not over, then they wouldn't have released them. there is this mindset in the white house and in the national security community that the war is winding down, and if you're winding down the war, then at some point you have to do something with these folks that were held at guantanamo and return them. >> i agree. when the war's over. by the way, we got our p.o.w.s back in vietnam when we got out of that war. when the taliban gets out of the war, i'll be surprised. chuck, thank you. this is a tricky one, very quickly. thank you for joining us. your thoughts about this whole thing? >> yeah, one thing to remember about the taliban is, this is not khalid mohammed and al

qaeda, who we know have attacked the united states. taliban have never come here to attack, but it's true, we are leaving afghanistan. our legal rationale for keeping these taliban leaders hostage, hostage, in detention, indefinite, quote, unquote, indefinite, that excuse is evapora evaporating. >> our troops are still there. >> you might not think we're out, but most of the american people -- >> clarence, you can't poll on this. are we going to have soldiers that are targets? >> if you're in afghanistan, yeah, you're a target, but our main troops are pulling out and how long are you going to keep them, chris? you just heard chuck saying it and the state department believes this, the white house believes it, and most of the american people say the sooner we get out, the better. don't forget -- >> we're still there. >> we still got a man who we have released now from taliban

custody. if he was still sitting over there, this would be a different debate, wouldn't it? >> my problem is this, if any americans now from this day forward get killed over there because of the work of these five guys, whose fault is that? >> you're going to see the headlines if that happens. you'll see the headlines anyway, wouldn't you? >> maybe we'll get them by drones, that would be great. clarence, we sometimes disagree. thank you, clarence page. coming up, was the obama administration right to release five prisoners to the taliban? those who they wanted back in exchange for an american soldier who could be guilty of desertion? we're going to have that hot debate. this is just a prelude. plus, the neck and neck race in mississippi, challenger looks like the winner, could the tea party go too far or is mississippi already ahead of it? that's pretty scary. and hard as it is to believe, u.s. congressman steve king may have topped himself with his comment about the obama

administration. finally, let me finish by the deal driven by our enemies to release bowe bergdahl, and this is "hardball," the place for politics. transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. is all ready the brand ofstate what wthe year.ds stood for. berkshire hathaway home services. good to know.

hillary clinton's now speaking out about a possible run for president in advance of her upcoming book release, the former secretary of state told "people" magazine, "i know i have a tough decision to make, but part of what i've been thinking about is everything i'm interested in and everything i enjoy doing and with the extra added joy of i'm about to become a grandmother. i want to live in the moment. at the same time, i am concerned about what i see happening in the country and in the world." well, clinton's book, title is "hard choices," is due out next tuesday. we'll be right back. [male vo] inside this bag exists

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could mean less waiting for things like security backups and file downloads you'd take that test, right? well, what are you waiting for? you could literally be done with the test by now. now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. opponents of president obama have seized upon the release of an american prisoner of war, that's what he was, using what should be a moment of unity and celebration of our nation as a chance to play political games. the safe return of an american

soldier should not be used for political points. >> welcome back to "hardball." that's, of course, senate majority leader harry reid today on the senate floor criticizing the political games being launched over sergeant bowe bergdahl's release. while there are legitimate questions to ask about the prisoner swap, we want to stick to the main issue here, was the obama administration right to release five taliban prisoners in exchange for an american soldier? joining me now, congresswoman marsha blackburn, a republican, and correspondent from the daily beast. let me start with the congresswoman, your views about your main critique here of the president's decision, he made it. what's your critique. >> he did make it, and i think this is like so many decisions that they make, you know, they seem to make mistakes in their information, it leads to illogical conclusions, the 30 days why they didn't come back to congress and provide that

information, this is something that congress has put in place because there had been questions about detainees, and, chris, why he did not do that is causing great concern and then also, as you said, the five masterminds that were sent back to qatar that you don't know if they are going to be active in planning actions against our troops, our men and women in the field, i have a major military post in my district, this is caused great concern. >> let's get back to the two questions, was the 30-day requirement, the president signed it, agreed to, part of the law of the land, he broke the law, may even admit so. also go back to article two of the constitution which makes him commander in chief of the armed forces. second question, do you think it's reasonable to assume these five characters, taliban guys, are not going back to fight the war? >> first question, that's troubling, the question about the law. there's no doubt about that. you might say the spirit of that law is so he wouldn't empty

guantanamo, that's why they passed that law, so he wouldn't empty guantanamo in one or two fell swoops. he didn't do that. there's still 100-something guys there. then there's the constitutional question you address. the five guys, we have statistics about this, chris, people have studied the recidivism rates of people that have gone back there. >> they asked for these five. >> i know that. >> they are not backing fighting -- look at them hugging. this is a former chief of staff of the army. >> i understand that, they are dangerous guys. there's always the risk, but look, the bush administration sent back more than 500 guys, the obama administration sent about 80. bush administration sent back far more guys and far looser standards. you know, i don't know what these guys are going to do, nobody knows, but recidivism rates are actually -- >> let me get back to the congresswoman -- look, i have to go back and forth in a reasonable way or we're get into a stupid cable fight. i'm not doing that tonight. let me ask you another question, if you could have gotten a better deal to get bergdahl

back, what would it have been, five, four, three, none? what would you have given the taliban, or would you have given them nothing? >> that is a question, a hypothetical, you really can't answer. >> it's the question the president had to answer himself. >> right right, but chris, the deal that he took, the deal he took, you had panetta and clinton and others that already said do not do this. >> we said that on the show. what would you do? >> i don't know. you never know what you're going to do in a given situation. you do know that five for one and what we have learned causes tremendous concern. what we also -- >> what about you, you got to help me here, there has to be a counter position here. what's your position that we should have done? >> what we should do is be more judicious in how we're looking at these detainees. last week i had a bill on the floor that would have closed the thompson facility in illinois to keep those detainees from coming

to the u.s. the president has decided he is going to empty guantanamo bay. sending these individuals to the fight. >> what price would you have paid, you got to help me on this, congresswoman, you've always been a good guest. it's a tough, but nasty question. what price would you pay if somebody asked you beforehand how far you're willing to go to get the soldier back, how far would you have gone, that's the question the president had to answer. >> what i would do is look at the classified file and the information that we will have access to now and then be able to make that decision. see, what you have to realize, the president broke the law. congress was not informed. we are not privy to what is in that classified file on sergeant bergdahl. that is something that our committees, our intel committees, have returned to d.c. there are going to be hearings on this. what we need to do is approach this in a very thoughtful and

thorough manner, a different manner than the president has done. >> let me give you a little backdrop, i'm a bit older than you and i've lived in this city a long time, every year they have the mia guys come to town and they are still talking about mias, talking about people we left behind. let me try this by you, michael, first. suppose we left this guy behind, no deal, this deal sucks, he looks skinny, but he's going to rot because we ain't going to give these guys away. what would have been the attitude of the far right. i'm talking about not just the far right, the really angry right in this country. i'm just asking. >> you and i both know what they would have done. >> they are mad about mias in vietnam. >> far right would have exploded on obama if he died over there, god forbid, the far right would have exploded on obama for that. you know they would have done all those things. >> let's ask the congresswoman, what would be, i'm not giving away five bad guys for one

american, a questionable loyalty even, certainly questionable service. what would you have said to that, a smart move on that part if he'd said no to this deal? >> you never leave a man behind. that's why we're all so concerned about what happened in benghazi and what you have to do is have consistency and this administration has no consistency. now you're asking for a specific, what would you have done. >> go back to the question about what price you would have done. >> no, you look at the file. >> the president, in the first instance was doing the right thing, getting him back, so the price was wrong. what was wrong about the price, if you said the deal was good from our end, the other end of the deal you don't like, how would you have changed the other end of the deal, you already know about bergdahl. irrespective of the paperwork, you said got to get the guy back. okay, what's the second half of the deal look like to you? >> that's not what i said. i said never leave a man behind, and that is what has people upset about benghazi. we all know that.

>> wait a minute -- >> let me get to the answers why you left people behind in benghazi. >> i know you do. i know you do. you know i'm not going to do this. not right now. we want to talk about bergdahl. you said it was important not to leave that man behind. what would you have done to keep him, get him back to the united states? >> these are the questions you don't know because you don't have the classified information. >> you said there was a principle involved, we have to bring him back. >> to let go of five people that is their dream team -- >> i agree, i have these questions, too. >> she's not going to answer. >> i'm not elected, you are. >> why say it has to be done immediately and why say you can't wait until this is fully vetted and congress is informed, we know the president broke the law, why did he choose to break it? >> seems there's a lot of agreements. i think the congresswoman speaks

for a lot of people. you hear this from right, left, center, we got to get the guy home, find some way to do it. get him home. nobody's saying leave the guy to rot. looked like he was in bad shape. the information they had was, you know, get him home, fast, there is a quick window here. the questions over the deal on the other side, what's going to be the thing we're arguing about three months from now? i think the other side. everybody's going to say we should have got him back, but that's easy to say if you don't say the price. everybody wants a new cadillac. if it's $5, we'll take it, $50,000, i don't know. >> bergdahl's going to come back, speak his piece, apparently go through the military court system and they are going to determine whether he was a deserter or not and that's going to happen. >> will that help us understand the deal better? >> is that correct. >> do you think that information is important to know, congresswoman, whether he was a good soldier or not? >> i do. i think that is very important to know, and i think the fact that the people that served with

him, his unit, are now coming out and speaking that all of this is beginning to cause so many questions. >> i know. >> it is causing the white house some problems, and those are the things -- >> what would you do, would you say this is the worst deal if he turned out not to be a good soldier? or doesn't it matter, we still have to bring him back? >> the inconsistency is one of the things that's troubling for everybody. you don't leave people behind. we all know that. he should go through the appropriate system and if -- >> i'm asking you a question, does it matter whether he's a bad -- you raised the issue. >> they will do that. >> suppose it turns out he was a deserter, was it right to bring him back at the price we paid, if he was a deserter, should have left him there? >> this is -- once all the due diligence -- >> i'll answer it if you want me to. >> should we have let him go sit there if he was a deserter? >> we will know the answers to that once we go --

>> no, the question. i want to ask you the question. should we leave him there, should we have left him there, you said it matters what his fellow platoon members thought of him. why does it matter? >> i think that -- >> why does it matter? why does it matter? you said you want an investigation. why does it matter if he's an american and we got to bring him back? >> if he needs to face justice in the appropriate system, he will do that. i think that it's important to note that you do bring people home. our military men and women are, you know, they are so upset about this. because you look at the five that were released and, chris, you have to ask, how many people lost their lives, or their loved ones, fighting in battles that were instigated by these five? how many lives did we lose there? >> you're raising a question i hope you can answer. >> we hope for those answers, too, and then i'll be able once

we have those and have been able to see those files and have been properly informed, then i'll be able to answer some of the questions that you have about this. i appreciate your attention to it. >> thank you. so much conflict here. people say there's a principle involved, we have to bring it back, we want investigations, you don't need an investigation if you decide bring him back. we're talking about the president of the united states decision. thank you, marsha blackburn. thank you, michael tomasky of daily beast. we'll be right back after this.

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negotiation bit. we are not negotiating with you, terrorists, and your response is? >> time now for the side show. that was, of course, jon stewart last night on the political drama surrounding the release of bowe bergdahl in exchange for those five taliban prisoners. well, there's legitimate debate at the president's decision, but as also happens in politics, critics can sometimes go too far. here was jon stewart's reaction to a segment on fox about bowe bergdahl's father. >> he says he was growing his beard because his son was in captivity. well, your son's out now, so if you really don't no longer want to look like a member of the taliban, you don't have to look like a member of the taliban, are you out of razors? >> first of all, who the [ bleep ] are you to judge, and i don't want to complicate facial hair, but if you gave bob bergdahl a bandanna and a duck, you'd like him just fine.

>> worse yet, u.s. congressman steve king of iowa criticized national security adviser susan rice on twitter yesterday, implying that she works for al qaeda. quote, this is from a u.s. congressman, "rice lied to the american people again, bergdahl taken in battle, looks like the both sides are working for al qaeda." really, steve? up next, that mississippi senate race is heading for a runoff and if the tea partier wins, his presence will bring a real-live far righter to the u.s. senate. really far right. wait until you hear what this guy says. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. you told us your number one olive garden dishes.

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i'm page hopkins. here's what's happening while in poland, president obama met with ukraine's president-elect. the president called him a wise

selection to lead the country through this difficult time. afterward, mr. obama flew to brussels, where he attended a leader with g7 leaders. an event in hailey, idaho, has been cancelled due to security concerns. and the nba and donald and shelly sterling have agreed to sell the l.a. clippers to steve ballmer for $2 billion, with a "b," dollars. now we're going to take you back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." well, mississippi republicans are on the brink of nominating yet another extreme right winger as their standard bearer for the united states senate. chris mcdaniel leads to the incumbent by half a point. 49.5 as of last night for him, 49% for cochran. can't be closer than that, because both candidatings are under 50%, however, there needs to be a runoff three weeks from now, a runoff most observers say the tea party candidate tends to

win. but mcdaniel has some radical positions on the right, the democrats hope they can exploit in the fall. when he was a radio talk show host, he talked about the government passing legislation that compensated for slavery and he would stop paying taxes if that happened, and more. >> if they pass reparations and my taxes go up, i ain't paying taxes. isn't that sad? >> he also said he would leave the country. got that? he will leave the country if taxes go up because of reparations, which leads to this strange conversation about mexico. >> i tell you what's better, why don't we all immigrate south? let's go to mexico. jeremy is with me. you know a dollar bill can buy a mansion in mexico. >> do we have to learn spanish? >> yes. you'll have to learn just enough to ask where the bathroom is. >> i'm still not going. >> banos, banos, that's how you

say it. what about mamacita? i'm english speaking, but i say it for fun. i think it basically means, hey, hot mama. you're a fine looking young thing. >> don't expect his vote for immigration reform reform. here is his general view about the democratic party. >> what is a party that supports the homosexual agenda have to say about morals? the party of sex on demand, the party of bill clinton, the party of monica lewinsky, the party of ted kennedy. what do they have to say about morals? >> sex on demand, where's this planet he lives in? where's this? anyway, is he going to be a united states senator from anywhere, even mississippi. a democratic strategist and president of emily's list, and amy water. amy, i've got to ask you this, sex, what is it on demand, sex

for everybody? i'm curious, i'm just curious. i don't know where else to go. i could go to stephanie, i could ask myself, but it sounds like -- what world is he talking to that believes there's going to be sex on demand? what is this world? >> i don't know. we're on the internet maybe. is that what it comes to? push a button. >> physical world for everybody if the democrats take over. i know a lot of prudish democrats that will be surprised at this, this is a strange world to live in. anyway, how far can you go in mississippi and get away with it? is he too far to get away with anything? >> i think he is crossing over the line, i really do, and it's interesting to see this runoff. he's leading by a little bit, there will be this runoff. >> might have won by more if they hadn't been caught with masks on taking pictures of his wife. >> outrageous, outrageous. what we're going to see in the next three weeks, because the turnout is going to be lower in

the runoff, more right, more things actually coming out of both of them, because the one thing that we've seen in primaries this year and on the republican side, is the republicans who are winning are moving very far to the right and embracing tea party politics. >> what do you make of the fact these far right almost clownishly right people have been getting their butts handed to them this year, the republican establishment knows it's still about winning elections and can't win with this crowd of crazy people. this guy may be the only one to get across the line, but if he wins, democrats can exploit nationally, i would think. >> they might be able to. >> hispanic voters would love to hear his comments. >> democrats are going to try to do this in every single race, not just mississippi, make the republican way too far on the extreme. >> is it fair? >> it's what they got. on some issues, they will be out of the mainstream and some issues it won't be as dramatic as they make it out to be, but

they have to make the case, localize this contest, because if not, then 2014 is going to be a referendum on barack obama. democrats can't afford that. one thing i'll say about republicans and getting the picture, they finally got the joke after 2010 and 2012, it's this crazy thing, if you run a campaign, you raise money, you put candidates with real campaign managers and real campaign infrastructure into it, you can win. wow. >> joke last time about it's not nice to say, but had to ask, which rape candidate, because you had akin and murdoch in indiana and the other state, missouri, i guess, and you had to find out which one the crazies you're talking about. but i wonder about these comments. nobody's talking compensation for slavery, the 300 years of free labor, but the fact he would bring it up, why would you bring up, you know, reparations unless you wanted to start a fire against black people? it's not going to happen. i wish there was a way to figure

out what a proper reparation would be, but nobody could figure out what it would be, how it could be fair and useful and bring them up, but there's no way. >> this is his world view, and someone like that wants to move policies that are going to reach his world view, and i think that's what's so terrifying. >> all the people he wants to vote for him, sounds like in his radio show. >> that's why i believe, like, do i think we're going to win in mississippi, boy, that's a big step, but all of a sudden you can see a senate race that is competitive in mississippi. he is out of the mainstream of that state. he's way out of the mainstream of the rest of the country, and you're right -- no. >> he's too far for mississippi even? >> i think he's too far. >> i'm afraid that they will not vote democrat until we get rid of the civil rights and voting rights laws and everything else. >> it's going to be about the

candidates. >> last democrat to win a senate race, i don't want to rain on the parade, but let's face it, john stannish, republican today. they change their party label and didn't change anything else about him. >> right, but our candidate down there, you know, is going to make this about the state of mississippi. as long as it's about the people of mississippi and the economic needs of mississippi, which is really what this election's going to be about, then this guy's way too far right. nationally, the policies that he wants are the same policies economically. >> let me ask you about this, objectively, it's now june, we're getting close to november. i think things can happen, the market's up, economy's getting a little better. is this still lean slightly to the probability republicans will get six or more, or do you think the other way? >> the environment is such, yes. >> anger of in kentucky and louisiana? >> the anchor, the weight of the

president's disapproval ratings and the economy, those are so important. you have to have a great candidate. >> if landrieu pulls it out. >> kay hagan, yeah, we have some great candidates. >> she faces one great challenger in north carolina, which for whatever reason, is turning right. amy walter, thank you. may be running the hillary clinton campaign. up next, former senator jim webb, boy, the power house, he's going to talk about the bergdahl deal, the scandal at the va, and whether he'll challenge hillary in 2016. where'd that come from? and this is "hardball," the place for politics. t with whole grain fiber can do. one coffee with room, one large mocha latte, medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, two espressos. make one a double. she's full and focused. [ barista ] i have two cappuccinos, one coffee with room, one large mocha latte, a medium macchiato, a light hot chocolate hold the whip, and two espressos -- one with a double shot. heh, heh. that's not the coffee talkin'. [ female announcer ] start your day with kellogg's frosted mini wheats cereal. with whole wheat goodness on one side

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we're back. there weren't too many moments in a presidency that are truly pivotal, but this looks like one of them. president obama is under fire right now. the commander in chief is facing criticism on three fronts right now, all having to do with our men and women in uniform. there's the veterans affairs scandal, a real one, by the way, which has produced an onslaught of terrible press and shakeup of the president's top cabinet. there's this announcement to withdraw all troops from afghanistan by 2016, despite ongoing fears of a taliban resurgence there, and, of course, as of this week, there's this most recent decision to swap five high-ranking taliban leaders for sergeant, army sergeant, bowe bergdahl. whom officials are now looking at for questionable conduct on the field. there is perhaps no better person to bring to "hardball" to

talk about these political and military crises than our guest sitting with me right now, jim web, democratic senator from virginia, but that's not who jim webb calling: a memoir." well, people love war stories and they love the fact that real people serve our country with real stories. and they tend to come back wiser. they tend to come back better at seeing what the world's all about. so when you look at these scandals, i'll ask you to just run through them. this bergdahl thing, when you look at the trait of an american service member with a murky service record and status for four big shots going back to the battle field, what do you think of the deal? >> let me first say, this is a book about growing up, which includes my time in the military and it is not a political book. you get a lot of people on your show who come in and have ghost writers, but -- >> you wrote it. >> i've written all my books. i'm very proud of this book. it's a piece of literature, not

simply a political book. with respect to the bergdahl situation, i watched your show waiting to come on, and i think the best thing i can say, really, as someone coming from the senate is, i would want to make sure i have all the facts before i venture an opinion. i know there was a top-secret briefing that was given to the senate this afternoon, where they were laying this stuff out. the president could have done a lot better by giving this kind of a briefing earlier. i think there's been a number of questions about presidential discretion over the past several years, including, by the way, libya, where i was a very strong voice warning against unilateral action in that case. >> but what's your biggest question you would like answered? >> i would want to hear all the facts on both sides. >> do you think there's any doubt these leaders are going back to the front? >> i would like to hear the briefing. >> because what we're getting right now is they're going to a taliban hangout, a headquarters in doha, where they're immediately integrated with

their guys. >> i've watched your -- i know you're on this, but just for me -- >> okay, you want more information. what about the troop patrol, announcing a date of departure, total withdrawal, is that senatosmart? >> i don't think we belong as an occupying power in that part of the world. and i think we can accomplish the objectives we have with maneuvering forces rather than these forces on the ground. i don't really have a problem with withdrawing from afghanistan. >> but a date certain? >> it doesn't matter. >> it doesn't alert the enemy as to a chance to jump us on the way? >> no. first of all, i think general dunford a tremendous officer. i think he's the finest serving officer in the united states military today. i don't think there's a problem. >> a strategic withdrawal is always most difficult, right? >> well, retrograde, yeah. but i think they're fine. i think we're fine as a country by removing our -- >> we'll get okay. let me ask you about the v.a., last thing. i don't think this is a partisan thing. of all the partisan so-called

scandals, this is the real one. and i wonder what you think of it having served? >> i've been involved with veterans issues all my adult life. i was council in the house veterans committee many years ago, mentored by the world war ii veterans, and i wrote and introduced this post-9/11 gi bill. the best gi bill in history, i'm very proud of that. i was surprised when i got to the senate, looking at the backlog, that it was 600,000 people, trying to get their cases adjudicated, not even talking about the medical side. it was 900,000 when i left the senate. and that's leadership. that's a leadership problem. that's not a policy problem. and when you look at budget, which i was a committee council all these years ago, we had 30 million veterans and a budget of about $20 million. we now have about 22 million veterans and a budget of $260 billion. it's not apples to apples, but i think congress is attempting to put money where the problems are, but we need the leaders to really shape that place up and identify how to fix things like

backlog. >> in your book, you paint a bleak picture describing why you left the u.s. senate. you said, the main reason i decided not to run again that spending another six years or more as that body, i either vendered a part of my individuality to the uncontrollable, collective nature of group politics. >> i think we did a lot of good when i was in the senate. we passed the number one piece of veteran's legislation since world war ii. we brought criminal justice reform out of the shad dose. we led the pivot to asia before obama was elected. we brought -- did you like being a senator? >> we brought economic fairness to the forefront, in my response to president bush's state of the union. the floor of the senate is completely paralyzed. there's no question about that. so it was time to step away. and you know -- >> i think that's all i'll get from you today. anyway, the book's called, "i

heard my country calling by inc great patriot, jim webb. we'll be right back after this. ♪ come on, yeah ♪ i say yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ 'cause you make me feel ♪ like a pony ♪ so good ♪ like a pony ♪ so good ♪ like a pony [ male announcer ] the sentra with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ mony mony with lobster! don't miss our first ever lobster toppers event! 4 delicious entrees topped with sweet, succulent maine lobster starting at just $15.99! like savory new wood-grilled shrimp topped with maine lobster in a citrus hollandaise... or the new ultimate: lobster-topped lobster -- 3 split maine lobster tails topped with maine lobster in a creamy white wine sauce! four choices, for a limited time, starting at just $15.99! everything's better with lobster!

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let me finish tonight on this note. not being president of the united states or even one of his aides, i have no direct information on how he made the decision on bowe bergdahl. what i do know is that the trade of prisoners was not the stuff of celebration. it was a nasty deal, one driven by our enemies. if we wanted our guy out alive,

we had to release five of their killers. not all combatants in war are the same. not do all fight for the same rules or fight for the same causes, obviously. the taliban fight so they can suppress people, so they can punish those who reject or disregard its dictated code, its 24/7 regime on dress, food, sex, religion, on life itself. the taliban inserts a total control over what a person does all day, every day. it hates and destroys anyone who believes in anything but what it believes. it is, let us agree, as ruthless, bloody, and brutal on the battlefield as it is on the home front. well, these are the people who we went in to fight in afghanistan. the people we've been fighting to keep out of power, obviously. the people we just released from our prison in guantanamo. i have a strong disagreement with anyone who thinks we should normally release these people, as long as the war in afghanistan continues, and we, americans, have troops and diplomats in country, as we will after these five taliban figures have gotten past the even

limited detention now they face in qatar. to say this trade is messy is an understatement, which sadly to say it wasn't the only deal it was. to get sergeant bergdahl released, we had to do something disreputable. but it's up to the partisan critics to say how they would have got than soldier home under less disgusting terms. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today we saw for the first time the dramatic video of the moment that bowe bergdahl, who had been the last american prisoner of war in afghanistan, was returned to american custody. the video provided to nbc news by the taliban shows the taliban fighters surrounding bergdahl, who sits in a pickup truck, wearing traditional afghan robes, and minutes later, an american helicopter descending to pick up the prisoner of war. this is the moment the an