[ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ news right now. actor tracy morgan is in intensive care after a six-vehicle pileup. one person in that crash was killed. three others are in the hospital. we'll have a live report and new details. controversies that are whipped up in washington. >> as president obama continues

to defend swapping five gitmo detainees, calls for hearings grow louder. more democrats are distancing themselves from the president over that move. but not hillary clinton. the former secretary of state defends her old boss in a new interview. maya angelou is the greatest woman i have ever known. [ applause ] and i am the woman i am today because she was. >> the emotional memorial for america's phenomenal woman, dr. maya angelou. oprah, first lady michelle obama, president bill clinton, all of them gathered to remember a woman who spoke to our hearts and our souls as well. and living a happier life with less. i'll talk to two guys who wrote a book about it, who do it, and have made it their mission to convert others to simpler living. it's called minimalism, and it is today's big idea. good saturday amp. i'm craig melvin. let's start with that breaking news of the day. we've just learned that the

national transportation safety board is headed to the scene of a deadly accident on the new jersey turnpike, which left tracy morgan in critical condition. the 45-year-old comedian and actor was one of seven passengers in a limo bus that was involved in a crash overnight. one of the passengers was killed. three others, including morgan, are incritical condition right now. nbc's ron al sllen is outside t hospital. ron, at last check that was the case, icu. is that still the case? >> reporter: it is. critical condition, yes. his family is with him. for whatever reason, they said in a statement, according to morgan's agent, that they don't expect his condition to change today. that could mean any number of things. bottom line is that this is a very, very serious accident. it happened at 1:00 in the morning. the new jersey state police say that a driver of a tractor trailer truck apparently did not notice slow-moving traffic ahead

of him. when he did, it was too late. that's when the tractor trailer slammed into the back of the mercedes limo that was carrying tracy morgan and the others. the limo spun around, flipped over on its side. the pictures of it show the car was pretty badly mangled. morgan and the others, three in critical condition, were air lifted from the scene here to the hospital where they are in critical condition. again, we don't know exactly what that means, what kind of treatment they're getting, what kinds of injuries they do have. but at this point, again, the investigation continues as to why this tractor trailer driver apparently did not notice the cars ahead of him. it's an area of the turnpike that is -- where there's been a lot of construction over the years, where the lanes are being widened. so the traffic pattern tends to narrow through there and slow down. there's often construction at night. i drive through the area myself fairly frequently. again, what contributed to this specific accident? we don't know. again a lot of thoughts and prayers going out for tracy morgan at this point. >> really quickly, the ntsb on the way to the scene, we

understand. you've covered a number of crashes like this. is that customary for the national transportation safety board to be deployed in a situation like this? >> reporter: well, they're here for a few reasons. one, new jersey turnpike is a major interstate highway. two, the ntsb is concerned about truck and commercial traffic safety. there were reportedly two tractor trailers involved in this accident. and it's a significant accident. six vehicles on a major highway. the highway was closed down for the better part of five or six hours while they were clearing debris, which gives you an idea of the magnitude of the damage and the destruction in this accident. all reasons why the ntsb would be here to help and assist new jersey officials as they investigate the crash. >> nbc's ron allen for us in new brunswick, new jersey. ron, thank you so much. we're going to come back to you later in the broadcast for an update. meanwhile in germany, sergeant bowe bergdahl's condition continues to improve at a u.s. tear hospital there. bergdahl was released by the

taliban a week ago today, actually. since then, allegations have emerged that he'd been known to lee his post in the past, with fellow troops weighing in and adding to the controversy surrounding his release. sergeant bergdahl was let go in exchange for these five prisoners, who had been being held at kbaunt bay, cuba. president obama continues to defend the move. here's the president in an exclusive interview yesterday with nbc's brian williams. >> we are ending a war in afghanistan. we have released both under my administration and previous administrations a large number of former taliban fighters, some of whom returned to the battlefield. by definition, you don't do prisoner exchanges with your friends. you do them with your enemies. >> kristen welker is at the white house for us this afternoon. kristen, seems like we were just here having this conversation last week when sergeant bergdahl was released. any signs at this point that the administration, that the president was prepared for the

kind of backlash that ensued? >> well, i think the administration was prepared to some extent, craig, but certainly taken by surprise on some of it. what i mean by that is that they were expecting this would be controversial. swapping sergeant bergdahl for those five taliban detainees. also not notifying congress. they knew that that was going to be complicated, is the word they keep using. but i think that the administration is surprised by the strong backlash that they're getting over sergeant bowe bergdahl himself. of course, they knew that there were some questions surrounding his capture. the idea that he had wandered away from his base, but of course, as you eluded to, his fellow soldiers are now coming forward and saying that as many as six of his fellow soldiers may have died while searching for him. that's something that the department of defense is investigating right now. the administration urging lawmakers on capitol hill to withhold their judgment on bergdahl until all of the facts

are known. of course, craig, this is all coming as that criticism is mounting about the administration's decision not to tell congress. the administration saying that time was of the essence because bergdahl's health was deteriorating. also, making the point later on in the week that they had intelligence which showed that his life could be in jeopardy if details of the swap leaked out. so president obama spent a lot of last week on that diplomatic trip to europe defending his decision to make this prisoner swap, saying that the u.s. doesn't leave an american soldier on the battlefield and that time was of the essence and that the details of the swap could not be publicized, craig. >> kristen welker from 1600 pennsylvania avenue on a saturday afternoon for us. thanks. as you just heard from kristen, reaction to the release of sergeant bergdahl has become increasingly politicized, downright nasty in certain instances. kentucky senator rand paul is among the latest, tweeting that

instead of five taliban prisoners, the united states should have traded five democrats. at the texas gop convention last night, he offered up john kerry, hillary clinton, or nancy pelosi. here in new york, journal jack jacobs, msnbc military analyst. good to see both of you. gayle, let me start with you. what's turning americans' stomachs more here collectively? the reports of sergeant bergdahl leaving his post, how the administration handled the release, perhaps, or the fact that the u.s. government is openly talking to the taliban about ongoing peace negotiations and reconciliation in that country. >> i think the american public is just now getting educated on all three. quite honestly, i think it's a sign of the grim times we live in. that a serious moment in a serious war has been treated with, you know, all the substance of cotton candy. everybody has made talking points of it and had

conversations, but i think the fact that we are where we are in this discussion is a sign of just how removed most americans are from the war it takes moments like this for people to actually, a, remember we're at war, and, b, decide how we feel about all of that. i think that's a sign that the fact america, we've treated the war like an x-box game. the men and women in the war don't get that opportunity. so we all feel very surprised when they take this story with an incredible emotional reaction. >> colonel jack, as we mentioned and as just eluded to there, these reports that sergeant bergdahl, you know, walked away from his post, this is what conservative columnist david brooks had to say about that. this is who he wrote just yesterday. quote, it doesn't matter if bergdahl deserted his post or not. it doesn't matter if he's a

confused young man and said insulting and shameful things about his country and his army. the debt we owe to fellow americans is not based on individual merit. it is based on citizenship and loyalty to the national community we all share. has the president been criticized unfairly? has he been criticized too quickly? >> no, but david brooks is right. the two are not usually exclusive. the fact of the matter is that the white house has tried to make a case for getting -- for doing the trade on the basis of the fact that we do this at the end of wars. now, for the white house, it may very well be that the war is over. we still have 30,000 people in contact in afghanistan. and we're going to have at least 10,000 people through 2016. we do trade for prisoners, but we do so at the end of the war. this is not now the end of the war. the problem is that most people are conflating all the issues into one big one.

good trade or bad trade, did we trade up for this guy when we shouldn't have, is he a bum in the first place and so on. >> but what should that matter, even if he is a bum? >> no, but what i'm saying is, let's assume for the sake of amusement that he is a bum. that shouldn't figure into the calcul calculus. what we are doing is collapsing all these things together. >> why? how is that happening? why are we doing that? >> because it all revolves around one guy. plus, a decision by a white house in an unpopular war with the national security adviser again putting her foot in her mouth with the concern about the troops in the field and so on. all these things, both the politics and practicality of being on the battlefield, all seem to be part of the sake that we don't let people stay on the battlefield. but that's in active combat. we're conflating that too. >> gayle, colonel jack just eluded to susan rice. again, this is something that

perhaps could have been a slam dunk for the white house. it has become very messy in light of the desertion allegations. susan rice now being criticized for her initial comments after bergdahl's release, when she said he, quote, served with honor and distinction. this is susan rice on cnn yesterday. >> i realize there's been a lot of controversy around this. what i was referring to is this was a young man who volunteered to serve his country in uniform at a time of war. that is itself a very honorable thing. >> gayle, what more can the white house do to make this situation right, or can they at this point? is this a pr disaster beyond the point of return? >> i think it's time for all of us to have have a very serious conversation about the afghanistan war. that's right. we talk about this war like it's over. but ask the oregon national guard, which right now is preparing for its second largest deployment since world war ii,

heading to afghanistan. this war is not over for the people who are still fighting it. this war is not over for the people who are about to deploy. and quite honestly, it shouldn't get to be over for anybody in washington or in the american public, right. we are a country at war, even though we have wanted to forget that. and even, craig, i know you've covered 2012. look at how seriously the afghan war was discussed in that presidential campaign. almost not at all. it was either bumper sticker slogans or throwaway lines. it was almost as if we talked about the afghan war, we would remind the american public people were still fighting it. i think that's on all of us. if there's one good thing that comes out of this conversation, not about bergdahl's return, because i do think that's a very good thing, and i think that there's no room for that to be a partisan discussion in terms of an american coming home. but if there's one good thing that comes out of the discussion, maybe it does force us all to reckon with the fact we're now in 13 years of war and have to figure out, what is our mission going forward, and make sure we all understand what that

is as a country and that it's not a remote-control war fought by others. >> gayle, colonel, thanks to you both. coming up, hillary clinton's new remarks on the bowe bergdahl controversy. she's defending her old boss' decision. we'll hear from her. plus, honoring an icon. that emotional memorial for dr. maya angelou. first lady michelle obama calling her, quote, one of the greatest spirits the world has ever known. >> dr. angelou's words sustained me on every step of my journey. words so powerful that they carried a little black girl from the south side of chicago all the way to the white house. you know that dream... on my count. the one where you step up and save the day? make it happen. (crowd) oh no... introducing verizon xlte.

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among my principals in my government and a view that was shared by my -- the members of the joint chiefs of staff. this is something that i would do again, and i will continue to do wherever i have an opportunity if i have a member of our military who's in captivity. we're going to try to get them out. >> president obama speaking in an exclusive interview there with nbc's brian williams about the ongoing controversy surrounding the release of army sergeant bowe bergdahl. now, former secretary of state hillary clinton is weighing in, and she's backing up the president's position of never leaving troops behind. >> if you look at what the factors were going into the decision, of course there are competing interests and values. i mean, one of our values is we bring everybody home off the battlefield the best we can. it doesn't matter how they ended up in a prisoner of war situation. >> it doesn't matter? >> it does not matter. we bring our people home.

>> all right. we should note there that was hillary clinton in an exclusive interview with diane sawyer from nbc these. i want to bring in perry bacon. here you have hillary clinton standing shoulder to shoulder with president obama when you've got folks like senator diane feinstein, senator jeanne shaheen this week backing down, distancing themselves from president obama's position on bergdahl specifically. what might this mean for hillary clinton should she decide to run in 2016, if anything? >> what you've seen so far on a lot of issues, obamacare, syria, now bergdahl, hillary clinton has not disagreed with anything obama's done since she left the department. she's never distanced herself publicly from him so far. the signs are she wants to align herself with him. it would have been a huge story if she launched her book tour by saying, i disagree with obama. whatever her private comments were, i'm not surprised her public comments are in sync with

his. it would change the whole dynamic of what she's doing if she were to publicly disagree with him. >> why not disagree with the president publicly? what's the disadvantage? >> imagine how we would cover this. it would be obama versus hillary. remember 2008? remember the divide? bill thinks this. i think she wants to avoid that right now until there's an issue where she adamantly disagrees with him. i think her views, she's known to be pretty hawkish anyway. i would not assume her views are that distinct from his, but i would be shocked if she were to announce on the book tour week some big disagreement with obama. >> she was also asked about her health. she said she's doing fine. she said she will release her medical records, should she decide to run. how should she address questions about her concussion, her age, other questions related to her health, the blood clot in her leg at one point?

how should she treat those questions and comments to perhaps inoculate herself should she run in 2016 or when she runs in 2016? >> i think when she runs. and you've already seen, the clintons' aides have not been responding to anything that karl rove suggested she had a lingering problem with the concussion. they aggressively responded as if this was 2016. i think she's going to be very upfront. you've already heard that in the interview saying, i'm healthy, i'm fine. she's going to be very determined to get past this issue to move on to other things. you remember john mccain. this kept coming up. is he too old? that became an issue. she should address it early and often. >> i want to switch gears quickly and talk about another story that's developing quickly. more than 1,000 unaccompanied, undocumented immigrant children are going to be sent to arizona by the federal government by the end of the week. including more than 400 children who are expected to arrive

today, in a written statement, jan brewer unsurprisingly saying, i am disturbed and outraged that president obama's administration continues to implement this dangerous and inhumane policy. what might this mean for the future of immigration reform in this country? >> it reduces the amount of trust between the president and republicans. there's already been a lot of amount of disregard for his views from republicans who don't like how he opened the dream act, how he sort of used his executive power to change immigration laws already. i think this story makes me think the white house views it as there's going to be some period of time after the primaries when republicans have all won where they can come back to capitol hill and reach some sort of immigration deal. i think this, the fact there's been this influx of immigrants and the republicans say that's because of obama's lax policies, i think this is the nail in the coffin. we'll not have any immigration reform this year. that 5% chance has went down to

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the gap begins to close. so let's simplify things. let's close the gap between people and care. ♪ an update now on the breaking news we've been following. right now ntsb investigators are headed to the scene of a deadly six-car accident on the new jersey turnpike. that accident has left actor tracy morgan in critical condition. right now he's surrounded by family. his agent says that he is receiving excellent care at the new jersey hospital. morgan was one of seven passengers in a limo bus that was involved in that pileup. it included at least two tractor trailers. our ron allen told us that's one of the reasons the ntsb is investigating. one person, james mcnair, comedy writer, was killed. three passengers, including

morgan, remain in critical condition. we continue to follow the story. we'll update you on it throughout the afternoon. here's a quick look at the other saturday headlines. ukraine's petro poroshenko was sworn in as president this morning. his first act, to outline a peace plan for the conflict. some pro-russian separatist groups have dismissed p eed poroshenko's plans saying they'll never surrender. the young man who wrestled a gunman to the ground at seattle's pacific jooufrt being hailed as a hero and being treated like one as well. 22-year-old john meece subdued the gunman, who had already killed one person. he's engaged to be married and is now seeing his wedding registry fill up with gifts from strangers. there there's a new movement online to fund his honeymoon too. and the mystery man who's been hiding cash around california and leaving clues on

twitter has now been unmasked. ktnv identifies him as san francisco real estate investor. he has no agenda and just wanted to do some good for others. a fitting tribute for a phenomenal woman this morning. friends and family gathered to honor poet, author, and civil rights champion dr. maya angelou at a memorial service at wake forest university. angelou taught there for some three decades. first lady michelle obama was one of several dignitaries that talked about the effect angelou had on their lives. >> dr. angelou's words sustained me on every step of my journey. through lonely moments in ivy covered classrooms and colorless skyscrapers, through blissful moments, mothering two splendid baby girls, through long years on the campaign trail where at

times my very womanhood was dissected and questioned. >> nbc's sarah daloff is live for us in winston-salem. i managed to catch some of it and listen. that was quite the memorial service there. >> reporter: yeah, a very emotional and powerful tribute, craig, to a woman whose character and words inspired everyone from every day people to presidents. today, of course, a chance to celebrate that life. some of the most impactful statements coming from michelle obama, who talked about how dr. angelou's poem "potential woman" helped inspire her from the south side of chicago all the way to the white house. oprah winfrey spoke. she actually helped organize the service. she encouraged the crowd to pass on the poetry of courage and respect, saying that is what her friend and mentor would have wanted. and dr. angelou's own son, guy johnson, said of today, quote,

there is no mourning here. we have added to the population of angels. and despite these big names, despite the achievements and accolades, dr. angelou stayed true to her roots. she stayed open and accessible to the community here. we spoke to students who fondly remember being invited to her home for classes. she was known to cook meals for students, have christmas parties, and at the end of one semester, one student recalls dr. angelou actually giving out her home phone number and encouraging the class to call if they ever needed her, saying that she was now their professor of life. >> got to love it. sarah daloff for us in winston salem. thank you. a 12-year-old girl bhofs viciously stabbed by friends in wisconsin last sweek out of the hospital this afternoon. those two classmates also both just 12 are facing attempted murder charges. they'll be back in court wednesday. they're being charged as adults. because of their age, msnbc is not releasing the girls' names.

we're also not showing their faces. police say the two suspects lured their friend into the woods a week ago today, stabbing her nearly two dozen times. the victim was able to crawl out of the woods, later telling her parents, i wanted to live. the suspects were allegedly trying to please a fictional online character called slenderman. the girls could be sent to jail for the rest of their lives if they're convicted as adults. their arrests come amid new and stark information on the state of this country's prisons for young offenders. the united states already incarcerates more of its nation than any other industrialized nation in the world. a new book details many of those kids' journeys, arrests, assaults, solitary confinement, and the cost to taxpayers. it's called "burning down the house." the author joins me live how it.

you got to know some of those juvenile prisoners. you called them america's hidden children. why? >> well, i think that one of the reasons that we like to lock people away is that we don't want to think about young people committing crimes. the story that you just told was a perfect example of that. that's a horror that we just want out of our sight and out of our mind. what better way to do that than to put bars and walls around our most troubled children? >> a lot of folks hear that, and i'm sure they're thinking and saying, you know, we put these kids behind bars because they've been deemed by a court, a jury, or judge at least, deemed unsafe for society. you found a lot of these kids are there for long periods of time for relatively minor offenses. like what? >> well, about 40% of the kids that we keep in our large state-run facilities, the ones

that are meant for the quote/unquote worst of the worst,s are there for very low-level offenses. things like truancy, maybe a marijuana violation, sometimes even loitering, vandalism. so the idea that once you're locked up, you've got to be an ax murderer just doesn't match the facts. >> and i would imagine that once they get locked up, if they weren't ax murders before, not literally, but if they weren't hardened criminals before, time in juvi probably helps them down that path. >> well, you know, that's the real tragedy. i don't want to dwell too long on statistics, but the statistic that really shocked me was that 80% to 90% of all american teens in confidential interviews will acknowledge that they've done something serious enough under the law to warrant incarceration. >> wow. >> most of them aren't

incarcerated. they get a pass. they aren't caught. those kids grow out of it and just go on to lead adult lives. but the kids that we incarcerate for those same acts become twice as likely to go on to adult prison. in fact, the greatest predictor that a given child will grow up to become an adult prisoner isn't family dysfunction, isn't mental illness, isn't drug addiction. it's none of the things we think of. it's juvenile incarceration. the greatest predictor of adult incarceration is juvenile incarceration. >> as you know here in new york state, the attorney general recently announced some changes, specifically to solitary confinement at juvenile prisons. juveniles in solitary will now be getting more time outside their cell. some other outside programming as well. what did you find about how other states are approaching the issue of solitary confinement specifically? >> well, the first way that we approach it is by hiding it.

there's probably 12 different names for it. ad seg, the back room, or my favorite, reflection cottages. officially about a third of kids spend time in solitary confinement. i think i met one or two who had not. and, you know, the united nations defines solitary confinement of juveniles for any amount of time as torture. i met kids who'd spent months, sometimes adding up to years, in solitary confinement. what it does essentially is make them crazy. so again, we're working exactly counter to our stated aims. >> you also found, as i understand it, a number of these kids were abused while they were in juvenile jail, juvenile prison, correct? >> yeah, that was another tragedy. many of the kids who go into juvenile facilities are traumatized in some ways already. that may be what triggered

whatever they did. but the rates and kinds of abuse by guards that i learned about, not just from the kids, but from department of justice reports. again, taxed the imagination. for example, in mississippi, and this is documented in these federal reports, girls were made to run laps in the summer heat carrying logs. those who threw up from the exertion, they were allowed to pause but only long enough to eat their own vomit. those kinds of things can't be explained as rehabilitation. they can't. at this point, i don't think they can be explained. but the idea that a child would go through an experience like that and come out somehow better suited to function in civil society is a little bit more than counterintuitive. >> we're going to leave it there. nell, thank you.

the book is called "burning down the house." 32 years ago today, elvis fans were able to start making the ultimate pilgrimage to honor the king of rock and roll. his wife priscilla opened graceland to the public. this is how "nightly news" previewed the event the week before. >> memphis, tennessee, is about to get a new tourist attraction. public tours inside graceland, elvis presley's opulent mansion. >> for the first time, fans were allowed inside the recreation room where the star watched movies and listened to records. they saw the jungle room, known as the room where elvis recorded music and held lavish parties. but visitors were not and still are not allowed upstairs. that's where elvis died. graceland opened to the public because the estate owed some $17 million in inheritance taxes back then. those taxes have since been paid, as you might imagine. the ticket price at the time,

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states and the district of columbia. folks, as i speak to you, as i stand here, we could be on the cusp of seeing history made. california chrome is just one win away from becoming the first triple crown winner since 1978. chrome has already won the kentucky derby. he's already within the preakness. now all he has to do is win today's belmont stakes. if he does that, he'll become just the 12th horse in history to sweep the triple crown. nbc's kristen dahlgren joins us live now -- not just kristen dahlgren, but kristen dahlgren and her hat, both from the track on this saturday afternoon. >> reporter: that's right. it coming along with me. >> have you seen america's horse yet? have you seen california chrome? >> reporter: you know what, he was out this morning, but really not for very long at all. his morning workout just an easy jog around the track. you can probably hear the trucks going by. they're keeping the track damp

because it's such a warm and sunny day out here. they want to make sure it's optimal conditions. so he was out. he looked relaxed this morning. looked like he was in good spirits and in good shape. his trainer and his jockey say that everything is going well. they have a lot of confidence in this horse. the odds right now, three to five. a lot of people betting on this horse. not just because he proved himself in the preakness and in the kentucky derby, but also the sentimental story. bought for about $10,000. they picked his name out of a hat. nobody thought he would get to this point. so far, he's made it look pretty easy. but today is really the test. they call this the true test of champions. a mile and a half race. so longer than he's run before. we'll have to see later on today whether he can hold out and make it, what they're calling around here today, a triple chrome. >> that's clever. 11 horses have won the first two legs of the triple crown only to lose at belmont, which i imagine is why everyone is so excited

about the prospect of this horse making history. >> reporter: yeah, you know, and it is so hard. that's because the other races are shorter. this, as i said, is a mile and a half. this is a tough track. you have to be bred for stamina, not just for going short distances. you also have to time things differently than in those other races. it comes down to the jockey as well and asking the horse to go give it that extra push at exactly the right time so that he doesn't tire out over a mile and a half. >> all right. we'll come back to you in a few minutes. i want to get your take on the mood there at the race track. nbc's kristen dahlgren for us at belmont. don't forget, coverage of the belmont stakes begins on your local nbc station at 4:30. up next, could you be happier with a lot less? we're going to meet two guys who simplified their lives in a major way and think that you can do it too and you should. it's today's big idea.

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look around you. how much crap do you have? are your material possessions helping you live a happy life? if not, you might want to consider minimalism. living with less. it's today's big idea. i want to bring in joshua milburn and ryan nikademi. they're behind this and the authors of "everything that remains." thanks for sticking around. i know you had to make changes to your travel plans. what's this concept? why are you trying to get us all to throw away our junk? >> i'm 32 now. five years ago, my entire life was radically different. at age 27, i was the youngest director in my company's history. i managed 150 retail stores, which i know is really ironic now. i was sort of living the american dream. i had everything i ever wanted, the six-figure salary and all the stuff. i realized i wasn't very happy with that stuff. the stuff wasn't making me happy. then two things happen.

my mom died and my marriage ended, both in the same month. i looked around and realized at where my life's focus had been. it had been on accumulation, not on what was actually important. >> acquiring things. >> absolutely. >> not enjoying things. so you two decide, you know what, we're going to get together and write this book? >> yeah, for me it started with noticing this difference in josh. i kind of went to him and asked him, why are you so happy lately? you've had these crazy things happen in your life. did they put you on prozac or anti-dpre anti-depressants? east li he's like, no, no. he showed me this idea of minimali minimalism. i thought, this might help me be happier. for me, it started with a packing party. what that involved was me packing up all of my belongings in my 2,000-square-foot two-bedroom condo. it even had two living rooms. i had no idea why i would ever need two living rooms.

i packed everything up as if i were moving. then i unpacked things day by day to see what i really needed. after three weeks, 80% of my stuff was still sitting in those boxes. >> so why do you think it is that we all have all of this stuff? how did we get here? >> you know, the great philosopher jim carrey once said, you know, we all know that money isn't going to buy happiness, but we all want to find out for ourselves. i think what we're trying to do is purchase happiness. we see 3,000 advertising messages a day. so by age 21, we've each seen a million advertisements telling us that these things are going to make us happy. it's not that we're against consumption. we're against compulsory consumption. buying things because that's what you feel like you're supposed to do. that's the template for happiness. >> oh, the irony of you two talking about this here. >> i know. >> my bosses are not going to be happy. josh, in the book you write, in part, that it's not just about

organizing things. quote, no matter how organized we are, we must continue to care for the stuff we organize, sorting and cleaning our meticulously structured belongings. when we get rid of the super abundance of stuff, however, we can make room for life's more important aspects. when you've crisscrossed this country and have been promoting the book, what are folks saying to you? what's the feedback? >> you know, it's been all over the place in terms of our audiences. we had an 11-year-old show up in albuquerque. he brought his father with him. we had an 83-year-old great grandmother bring several generations in st. louis. everyone knows that it's not just about the stuff. i think clearing the clutter is sort of the first step. i think you can go home, rent a dumpster, and throw all your stuff out and be miserable. it's about making room for what's important. things like our health. i used to weigh 80 pounds more than i weigh now. things like our relationships. i fore sook the closest relationships in my life, the

people who really mattered to me, i didn't dedicate the time to them. i needed to reprioritize my life. >> really quickly v you discovered in your travels any sort of geographic call difference? folks in montana, where you guys are, versus folks here in new york city? which group seems to get it more? >> like josh said, we get people from all different types of socioeconomic backgrounds. there's really not one particular demographic that fits in one city or another. what we're finding is everyone has the same question of how do i live a more meaningful life? >> josh, ryan, thank you both so much. theminimalists.com. that's the website. the book, "what remains." and do you have a big idea? let us know about it on twitter. use #whatsthebigidea. also, shoot us an e-mail. up next, we'll update you on that breaking news. the ntsb on the way to

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with our snapfix app. visit angieslist.com today. ♪ we are following breaking news this hour. actor tracy morgan is in intensive care after a deadly six-car pileup on the new jersey turnpike overnight. federal investigators are getting involved. we'll have a live report straight ahead. i make absolutely no apologies for making sure that we get back a young man to his parents and that the american people understand that this is somebody's child. >> as president obama continues to defend swapping five gitmo detainees for bowe bergdahl, calls for hearings grow louder, and more democrats are distancing themselves from the president over that move. we'll talk about that, plus a new day in ukraine. that country's new president was sworn in today.

i'll talk to the former u.s. ambassador to russia about what we can expect next in the region. and we'll also continue our special series on historically black colleges and universities. why are so many shift shifting their focus in how they attract new students? we start with that breaking news. good saturday afternoon. the national transportation safety board says it is now going to be investigating this morning's deadly accident on the new jersey turnpike that left tracy morgan in critical condition. the 45-year-old actor and comedian was one of seven passengers in a limo bus that was involved in a six-vehicle crash. one of the passengers in that limo bus was killed. three of the passengers, including morgan, are in critical condition now. nbc's ron allen is outside the hospital where nor begmorgan is. has there been any change in his condition? >> reporter: not that we know

of, craig. we were hold earlier by his agent that for whatever reason, they do not expect his condition to change today, which could indicate they know something about the treatment he's getting and how long it will take and what's expected. again, we don't know. all we know is critical, icu, and obviously a very, very serious situation. as you pointed out, there are several people who are in critical condition. there was one fatality. this was really a horrific accident involving at least six vehicles on a very busy highway. the turnpike is like i-95 in other parts of the country. 1:00 in the morning. we know the investigators have been able to determine that the driver of a tractor trailer apparently did not notice in time some slower cars ahead of him. now, why he did not notice that, did he doze off, was he distracted? we don't know. that's what caused the accident. the tractor trailer hit the back of the limo that morgan was riding in, spun the vehicle around, it flipped over on its side. pictures of it show it to be very, very mangled. he was air lifted to this

hospital because of the severity of his injuries. now here we are later in the afternoon. in critical condition with his family by his side. where this is going, we just don't know. we're hoping we get more word from the hospital sometime later this afternoon. craig? >> all right. ron allen for us in new brunswick, new jersey. thank you. overseas now to where those five freed taliban prisoners are living in qatar. they were released last week from gitmo in exchange for american p.o.w. sergeant bowe bergdahl. this is what president obama told our brian williams in an exclusive interview yesterday. >> we have a rule, a principle, that when somebody wears our country's uniform and they're in a war theater and they're captured, we're going to do everything we can to bring them home. we saw an opportunity and took it. i make no apologies for it. it was a unanimous decision. >> nbc's ayman mohyeldin is in qatar for us and joins me now on

the telephone. first of all, sir, what more can you tell us about their whereabouts right now? >> well, right now their whereabouts are being tightly guarded by both the taliban and the qatar government. we know they've arrived in qatar and there's been speculation as to whether the individuals were actually even in the capital or perhaps had gone and sought refuge in homs, outside of the capital. we understand from sources close to the taliban that the individuals are in the country. some of their relatives have been reunited with them from afghanistan and elsewhere. they've been brought here. the five individuals are actually receiving medical care given a lot of what they endured during the 13 years in guantanamo bay. some of the sources close to the taliban say the men are mentally exhausted, physically exhausted. they say they had endured a lot during those 13 years and are now going through a period of recovery and certainly going to be keeping a low profile for the next several weeks and months. >> we know that they're not going to be allowed to leave

qatar for a year. what can you tell us about the condition of their digs? where are they going to be staying? what's life going to be like for them? >> well, i think a lot of those questions are still to be answered. we do know that they will be allowed freedom of movement inside the country. they are allowed to move and travel and do whatever they want inside qatar. you're right, they're not allowed to leave the country. but at the same time, there will be very close supervision of their activities. they're not allowed to give media interviews, participate in any of the political organizations or meetings of the taliban or to really rally or perhaps to even try an incite their followers and supporters into action against the united states. one of the more important developments that happened in the past 48 hours is the taliban itself said that they will also abide by this agreement. so they are trying to re-enforce the agreement that was reached and say that these men will abide by it. they will not try to violate it

and will, in fact, remain in qatar for the next year as they themselves begin, you know, the next phase of what they hope to be reconciliation efforts, brokered by qatar. >> nbc's ayman mohyeldin for us in the capital of qatar. thank you, my friend. do appreciate you. david road is here, investigative reporter for reuters and "the atlantic." also kidnapped and held by the taliban for more than seven months in 2007. you and i sat here some six days ago. it seemed at that time that this story was going to play out a bit differently than it has. what was, i think, a somewhat patriotic event, a moment of relief for this country. how did that turn into the cover of "time" magazine -- here's the cover. if an american p.o.w. was worth being released. i think we have the "time" magazine cover. there it is. was he worth it? how did that turn into this?

>> i think our incredibly deep political divide. this quickly became an issue about obama and his decision. it was sort of the latest red meat in our politics. i'm not taking a side in terms of, you know, supporting or not supporting the administration, but it became hyperpartisan, as every issue now seems to become. >> do you think that the administration expected this? i mean, because we saw the saturday evening road garden ceremony. you had the president of the united states embracing the parents of bowe bergdahl. had the administration known then what it knows now, do you think we would have seen that photo op even? >> no, i think they totally misjudged, you know, the situation. they also, i think, misunderstood the anger in the american military. it's understandable. i think bergdahl needs to answer, you know, why he apparently walked off the base, and there needs to, you know, be some kind of investigation. but the vilification of this family and this soldier, you know, has surprised me.

>> even if he deserted, even if he walked off, even if he said, you know what, i don't believe in this war, i don't believe in this administration, even if all of that is true, how much should that matter? >> i don't -- i mean, i guess my sense is it doesn't matter if you're going to do this for a u.s. soldier. the bigger issue here is that militant groups are kidnapping people. bowe bergdahl, you know, 200 nigerian schoolgirls. it gets them publicity. it gets them hostages. it get them over $100 million in ransom that european governments have been paying. so what frustrates me is we're demonizing the wrong people. we're demonizing bowe bergdahl and his family instead of focusing on the kidnappers, the taliban. how do we counter kidnapping? the key thing in this case and in my personal case, and i'm biased, is there was a safe haven the taliban had in pakistan. there was no pressure on the taliban to lower their demands for bergdahl or for me because they had the safe haven.

the good news is that several countries, you know, colombia, somalia, and in the philippines, they've reduced kidnappings by regaining control of these lawless areas. >> that's a tall order in pakistan. >> absolutely. it is. but you know, i don't know why there isn't more anger at pakistan. we've given them roughly $15 billion in military aid since 2001. and this week, the pakistan military didn't once look for bergdahl or put pressure on the haqqani faction who had bowe, who had me. there are close ties between the haqqanis and pakistani military. they didn't once put pressure on them. >> that "time" magazine article i referenced, all righters write about bergdahl's relationship with the taliban. quote, military officials suggest sergeant bergdahl got along well with his captors. others say he tried to escape in 2010, and from then on was shackled at night. talk to us a little bit about

the range of emotions that someone in captivity can feel. >> well, it varies all over the place. the early stages, a sense, are you going to be killed? it becomes clearer, again, once they get you -- bowe and i were taken in afghanistan. once they get into pakistan, they can hold you for years. there's to pressure on them. so then you're trying to survive. you're trying to humanize yourself, you know, to your cap tours. you're talking. you're doing whatever. i tried to humanize myself, but i was waiting for an opportunity to escape. none of us know what happened, you know, but it's credible to me that he tried to escape. there's one report he tried to escape twice. and after that, he received very bad treatment. so, you know, i don't want to rule out everything, but what he did in captivity, this young man was under duress. he also frankly thought he was probably forgotten. this has gone on for five years. there was very little attention to his case, you know, prior to this uproar. whatever -- he made a mistake or whatever happened on that base,

i've said this before, i'm sure he regrets it. he'll regret any loss of life that happened with those soldiers searching for him, and he'll have this huge burden he'll carry with him for the rest of his life. i regret going to the interview that got me kidnapped. i'll always regret it tremendously. >> david, we'll leave it there. thank you for your insight. still ahead, a new day in ukraine. that country's new president took the oath of office today. and how will that seemingly impromptu meeting between president obama and russia's president vladimir putin, how might that affect ukraine's future? plus, our special series on historically black colleges and universities. why they're attracting more students from overseas now. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees.

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vice president joe biden was in ukraine this morning. he was attending the

inauguration of the country's new president. biden met with new president petro poroshenko. he also offered u.s. support saying, quote, america's with you. the inauguration in ukraine today follows a brief, rather noteworthy meeting between obama and putin. they met yesterday marking the 70th anniversary of the world war ii d-day landings in normandy. what was the back story behind that meeting? i want to bring in michael mcfall, u.s. ambassador to moscow until just this february. he's now an msnbc contributor. we don't know what came out of that meeting just yet other than some pleasantries that were exchanged. but we do know that ukraine has a new president, sworn in this morning. vice president biden there vowing u.s. support. ambassador, are we seeing a victory for u.s. foreign policy in ukraine, or is it still simply too early to tell? >> well, there's a lot of drama

coming in the weeks and months. it's too early to declare a victo victory. but i do think president obama and the administration had a good week. he pledged $1 billion for new assistance to nato. he gave a strong speech about ideas about freedom in warsaw. he then convened the g-7 meeting. first time that meeting has convened as a g-7 as opposed to g-8 in 17 years. and then he met with poroshenko in warsaw and had a lot of -- including in normandy -- a lot of good discussion with the president-elect then. and today the vice president with a bipartisan delegation for the inauguration. i thought it was a pretty good week. >> so much was made initially of the sanctions and the effect those sanctions might have in forcing putin's hand. do we know how much of a role

those sanctions may have played in putin at least appearing to soften his tone a bit? >> well, you got to distinguish between two types of sanctions. the first set of sanctions were punitive. they were designed to punish putin's entourage for bad behavior. the second set was a threat, which is to say, if you do more bad things, we'll increase sanctions. they use the phrase sectorial sanctions. i think that's affected putin's calculus. but there was a very subtle change in the sanctions debate this week. before it used to be, if you do more, we will sanction. after the meeting in warsaw and the meeting in brussels, they changed that to give putin a deadline to say, if you continue with the status quo, we will increase sanctions. that was a major policy shift. we'll see if it has results. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you. and welcome to the family, by the way.

>> thanks for having me. up next, could this day be one for the ages? we'll go live to the belmont stakes. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom.

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when are you coming home? just one more night. [ female announcer ] tide plus febreze. that's my tide plus. one race, just a mile and a half, and that is all that stands between california chrome and what could be the first triple crown in this country since 1978. all he has to do is win today's belmont stakes. if he does it, california chrome becomes just the 12th horse to sweep the kentucky derby, the preakness, and today's belmont. nbc's kristen dahlgren is live in new york. kristen, i would imagine it's quite the party there at the track today, no? >> reporter: you know, it really is. just to give you some idea here at belmont park, the capacity is about 85,000. today, they're expecting some 100,000 people, and they are packed in here. it is standing room only in places. hard to get through the the

grandstand. everybody really wants to see what they hope is history today. you said it. we haven't had a winner of the triple crown since 1978. it's really hard to do. you said, oh, just a mile and a half he has to run. well, that's not so easy. it's a long race. he needs to have the stamina. he's up against a good field. some of the horses that have rested more than he has. so it's going to be tough, but he's definitely the favorite out here. odds are three to five. the sentimental favorite. this is a story that hollywood couldn't come up with anything better. kind of a blue-collar horse. cost only about $10,000 or so. up against horses that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. the little colt that could and everybody hoping they watch him make history today. >> the little cold that could. i love that. for folks who don't follow horse racing closely, what is it about that particular track that makes it so difficult for horses to win there? >> reporter: well, here's what's so different between the kentucky derby and here.

it's got that extra length. so that means it's a very different race. this isn't a sprint. it's almost akin to a marathon. the horses have to have the stamina to keep going. they can't go out too fast. they'll run out of steam and other pohorses will pass them b. it really is a strategic race. also being so long that the jockey has to urge the horse on to make his move on at exactly the right time. if he does it too early, then the other horses who have been hanging back a little bit might be able to pass if he gets tired in the end. so it's really just the strategy of making that move at the right time and having enough gas to get over the finish line. >> do we know whether chrome is going to be wearing his breathe-rite strips? >> reporter: he is. you know, there was some controversy over that. horses in new york state weren't allowed to wear them for a long time. they changed the rule. a lot of horses do use them now. it's allowed in most other states. so new york will allow him. he's got it on. they're even selling them outside of the stadium here as a

souvenir for people to take home. >> i love it. i love it. nbc's kristen dahlgren with a front-row seat to what could be sports history this afternoon. kristen, thanks as always. don't forget, coverage of the belmont stakes starts at 4:30 on your local nbc station. the cia is now following you. you might get that notification soon now that the central intelligence agency has joined twitter. in less than 24 hour, the account picked up some 400,000 followers. now at about 435,000. the agency kept it simple with the no-frills user name @cia. apparently wasn't taken. they also stayed true to style with its cryptic first post. quote, we can neither confirm nor deny this is our first tweet. coming up, we'll continue our special series on historically black colleges and universities. we'll show you how they are shifting their focus to recruit

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right now federal investigators are on their way to the scene of a deadly pileup on the new jersey turnpike earlier this morning. that accident has left tracy morgan and two others in critical condition. another member of morgan's entourage was killed in that accide

accident. the 45-year-old actor and median was in a limo rammed by tractor trailer. we'll keep you up to date. here's a look at what else is topping saturday headlines. another state's same-sex marriage ban has been struck down. a judge struck down wisconsin's ban saturday. and in north dakota, seven couples have filed a lawsuit challenging that state's same-sex marriage ban. a 12-year-old girl who was viciously stabbed by friends in wisconsin last week is now out of the hospital. two of her classmates, also age 12, are being charged as adults in that stabbing. the suspects were allegedly trying to please an online fictional character called slenderman. and first lady michelle obama was among those who filled a north carolina church to pay their respects to dr. maya

angelou, who died last wednesday. >> for me, that was the power of maya angelou's words. words so powerful that they carried a little black girl from the south side of chicago all the way to the white house. mean while, president obama devoted this morning's weekly address to the overwhelming, sometimes crushing, burden of student debt. >> the average undergraduate student who borrows for college now graduates owing almost $30,000. and i've heard from too many young people who are frustrated that they've done everything they were supposed to do and now they're paying the price. >> and the problem is especially acute at this country's 105 historically black colleges and universities because a disproportionate number of their students have to borrow money for school. while those students are struggling to figure out how to pay for school, many of the schools are struggling to figure out how to retool themselves to

compete and remain viable. in a moment, i'll talk to the new president of florida agricultural and mechanical university, better known as famu. first, though, we continue our series on hbcus at a look at how famu and other schools are turning to two strategies specifically, specialization and internationalization. >> almost this entire room is made up of the laser. you have your pump system here. this is our oscillator. >> when stacy brown talks about science, you can almost hear the excitement in her voice, see it in her eyes. >> i work in the laser remote sensing laboratory here at the center for plasma science and technology at florida a&m university. it's always been my passion to get my ph.d. in physics. >> brown is close. she's a fifth-year student at florida a&m university. >> i've been exposed to a lot of

things i may not have been exposed to if i had gone to a predominant university. >> this is a test fusion device. >> recruiters went after alonso alexander with the same gusto a big-time football coach might chase a star high school quarterback. >> famu was the first to really have that kind of outreach to send someone personally to speak to me. >> alexander has an undergraduate and graduate degree in physics both from famu. he's now lead technician on a research project that's working to harness the sun's power for alternative energy. in each of the last three years, there's been an average of 17 black ph.d. graduates in physics nationwide. for the past few years, 20 to 25% of them graduated from famu. larry robinson was the university's interim president from 2012 until this spring. >> famu continues to be at the top of institutions, not just in

florida, as an institution for origin of african-americans who go on to pursue ph.d.s in the natural sciences. >> they disproportionally prepare students in the s.t.e.m. area. >> science, technology, engineering and math. a prediction of s.t.e.m. related jobs is expected. that's why president obama hosts white house science fairs. he's trying to make s.t.e.m. education a priority. roughly 40% of students working on graduate degrees in s.t.e.m. fields receive their undergraduate degree from an hbcu. >> if we did not have them, we'd have hardly any african-americans in the sciences as professionals now and in the pipeline to be professionals in the sciences. >> one of the draws for students at hbcus like famu, attention and a family feel. >> just kind of having this, you

know, the people that will look out for you. >> motivation for many people to come work here is that they want to play an active role in helping students to succeed. >> some hbcus have chosen the sciences, but to remain viable, we found leaders at other historically black institutions have become well known in other fields as well. oklahoma's los angelesn to university is home to a world-class goat research center. at tiny paul quinn college in texas, when they could no longer afford football, the president turned the field into an organic farm that helps feed the dallas cowboys and the neighboring community. besides a focus on s.t.e.m., famu is also turning to another strategy, internationalization. >> i had the good fortune of when i was provost in 2003 to sort of formalize the office of international affairs and government. that office continues. >> admissions officers at famu recruit heavily from south africa, cambodia, and currently

have more than two dozen students from brazil. part of that effort is about creating a diverse campus. the other part is about boosting sagging enrollment numbers at the university. enrollment for the just-finished school year was down more than 2500 students from just two years ago. like many other institutions, famu has been hit by a tough economy, cuts in pell grants and changes to federal loan requirements. but famu is trying to weather another storm. >> 13 people were charged today in the death of a florida a&m drum major, but none are charged with murder, and that has people asking why. >> five more defendants charged in the 2011 hazing death of robert champion are expected to go on trial later this month. publicity surrounding the case hurt enrollment. but famu is determined to start a new chapter. this spring, the university hired a new president. >> in order to go forward, you have to change. >> the new president of famu joins me live now. she's just the 11th person and

the first woman, we should note, to head that university. doctor, good to see you. thanks for being we me. >> thank you. >> let's pick up where you left off there. let's talk about some of the changes that need to be made. what are they? >> well, right now we're focusing on our quality of education, our programs, our research activity, and also affordability and access. >> when you say affordability and access, what do you mean specifically? >> well, we want to remain accessible to african-american students while we provide service and program opportunities for all students of all races. our focus has and continues to be on low-wealth students, making sure our tuition is not too high, that we also provide grants and scholarships for students that are interested in attending the florida a&m university. >> what have the recent changes to the federal loan programs, some of the federal loan programs in this country, what have those changes meant at

famu? >> what some of those changes have meant is that our students are to take on -- they don't have access to debt the way they had in the past. what we have done with our endowment is try to increase the opportunities to fund the students that are on the cusp or on the edge of losie ining affordability. so we're using our resources to help maintain their admission and entry into the institution. >> let's talk about the shift that's happening at famu and happening at other hbcus as well. the shift to a s.t.e.m. curriculum, the shift we just looked at there. is that a shift that was born from necessity? >> we aren't shifting to s.t.e.m. famu has always been a full-service liberal arts university, that also included science and technology. we have a long history of producing students in science, technology, engineering and math. we'll continue that tradition. for us, it provides us with a greater incentive to steer some

students to science-technology because of the deficit the nation is feeling in those areas. >> really quickly, someone heard i was going to be talking to you, and they wanted me to be sure to ask you about the football program there. is dr. mangum planning on changing conferences? >> i selected, as you might know, kellen winslow sr. as our athletic director. in doing that, i placed athletics in his hands, and i am sure that the decisions that we make as an institution will support florida a&u university's athletic program. >> you sidestepped that question. that was good. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, i want to invite two other folks to join this conversation as well. we're going to hear from two young leaders dedicated to the future of historically black colleges and universities. that's on the other side of this break.

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some of this country's historically black colleges and universities are in a desperate struggle for their very existence. many are looking toward curriculum changes, new funding sources. i want to continue the discussion on the changing face of hbcus. the president of famu, philip agnew, also a former famu student, president of the student body down there, we should note, and jared carter, founding editor of the hbcu digest. spent some time, works at morgan state. thank you, all, so much for being with me. jared, i want to start with you. president obama has made it very clear that for this country to thrive, institutions of higher learning have to turn out more students with the skills for today's workplace. this is what he said back in 2010. this is a 2010 speech to educators and businessmen. >> everybody in this room understands that our nation's

success depends on strengthening america's role as the world's engine of discovery and innovation. that leadership tomorrow depends on how we educate our students today. especially in science, technology, engineering, and math. >> specifically related to s.t.e.m., what are we seeing at other hbcus around the country? >> well, first, thanks for having me. you're seeing, as you talked about in your previous segment, a strong emphasis on engineering, computer science. but you're also seeing a lot more bold steps being taken in agriculture and agricultural business. so you're seeing hbcus really get into step with the correct funding, i have to add, from federal and state funding pools, an opportunity for black students, black faculty, and black researchers to come into s.t.e.m. field and make a difference. >> philip, one of the things

that struck me as we started talking to folks about hbcus, i thought, initially, that, you know, 2014, the changing face of america, post-racial america. i thought that there would be a lot of folks who would say, you know what, we're at a point now where we don't really need hbcus as much as we did. a lot of black students, they can go to predominant universities. i found quite the opposite. folks -- a lot of folks, especially down in your neck of the woods, have said that today more than ever we need hbcus. why do you think that is? >> because it's a fact. we see what's going on at the university of michigan and schools like ucla. the environment for a young black student on a college campus, the presence of african-americans on campus is decreasing exponentially. there's no post-racial society. everybody likes to say it's the new racism, in my opinion, to say that racism just doesn't exist anymore. so from their inception, hbcus have provided an opportunity for

young people of color, poor folks to get an opportunity to advance themselves. that's how famu was founded. that's how other universities were found. even today in 2014, i think there's an increased necessity for us to have institutions. i came from the south side of chicago. i would not have been able to go many places. famu was able to come grab me and bring me into a space that i was able to become my full self. the hbcu experience -- >> when you say that, a lot of folks who hear that, they don't understand what that means. what does that mean when you say here was a place that helped me realize my full self? >> so college is a time for a lot of people where they experiment. they become who they wanted to be. at famu, on our seal t says, hand, heart, head, and field. it's teaching the entirety of a person. so i didn't learn just about my chosen profession, which was business. i learned that i had a place in society to do more. the world was larger than my college campus.

the world was more than me. i wouldn't be involved in social justice today had it not been for florida a&m university. so it's because of hbcus and their particular place in the community that you learn not only a profession and skill, but you become a person that can really contribute to the fullness of society. so we need them. they can't go anywhere. i disagree with anybody that says they should. >> dr. mangum, has the mission at hbcus, has that mission changed in a remarkable way, or is it still pretty much the same mission that it was when many of these were started, specifically yours in 1887? >> the mission is exactly the same. it hasn't changed. in fact, it's even more needed. seriously, if anyone is questioning the need for historical black colleges to educate the students that we serve, they really aren't paying attention to what's happening in the world and in the world community. as we increase our population, the opportunities for students to study, it needs to expand, not decrease. the existing institutions across

this country cannot accommodate all of the interests in education. particularly, the interests of low-wealth students and the opportunities for low-wealth students, students in the african-american community, and other communities to attend college. the doors aren't as open as people think they are. and there aren't as many spaces as you would believe there are. we prove that day in and day out, year over year by the number of students that attend historical black colleges and universities and the number of students that graduate in fields that are being required and that society needs for its growth. >> north carolina democratic senator kay hagan last month introduced something called the hbcu innovation fund. the fund would provide historically black colleges and universities a one-year planning grant to design programs that address problems affecting the campus' populations. the schools could then obtain a five-year grant to implement those programs. jared, what would something like that mean at hbcus all over this

country are i? >> it's a good starting point, but it has to be the foundation of something a lot more substantive. you know, to piggy back on what brother agnew said, hbcus are more than just developing the whole of a person. they serve as economic engines in black communities. they serve as the ultimate research hubs for black health, political, social interests. so we're talking a lot more than that college or university. we're talking about engines and hubs that really do, for african-american people and people of color, what other institutions can't or won't do. to refer back to the recent proposal, again, it's a good start. but what is necessary in north carolina is a further investment into the strong programs at their public and private institutions from federal and state resources. it's not enough to say we want to plan what will be done or plan what may be a good effect and a good outcome for the state of north carolina and the united states. it has to be, what are the inclusive steps that make african-americans a vibrant part of the solutions that make a

difference for the united states and its capacity building over the next 20, 30, 40 years? >> and one of the other things that struck me as i toured the country talking to, you know, students, faculty members, hbcu leaders, when you look at graduates who give back -- i mean, at hbcus, it's a little less than 10%. lower than the national average. "u.s. news and world report" this week came out with new numbers. top three hbcus that give back right now. spellman, 37%. moorehouse college, 29%. this is the one that really struck me. claflan university, 43% of its graduates give back. dr. mangum, what do we know about the correlation between the size of a school's fundraising department and the number of its graduates who give back to that university? >> what we know about the size of the university and the graduates and what they give back is that we have not had the

history of giving back because we haven't had the history of obtaining the same k34ik wealth as many institutions across this country. so our ability so our ability to give back is directly related to our economic status and wealth or ability to obtain wealth in society. we have to make sure that we have job opportunities for our students and we are able to create businesses that we're able to expand the economic opportunity in our community so that our students will have the ability to give back. i don't know that we don't give back to the same level. we give back what we have. and i think our graduates are giving back in many ways to our institutions whether they volunteer on campus. it's also an important part of giving back. >> we're going to take a quick break and get some parting thoughts. o are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters.

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future of black colleges and universities in this country. the panel is back. not to dispute what the doctor said, but this idea that one of the reasons that graduates don't give as much is only because we're not making as much money, that's part of the reason. is the other part perhaps they are not being asked aggressively on a consistent basis? >> in some cases, that may be true. florida a&m is not one of those. >> i heard they ask all the time. >> i would also say that goes to the heart of kind of the discussion on the collective view of hbcus. there are some great, some mid-level and some that are struggling. we shouldn't paint all of them with all broad one brush. but again, when you talk about giving back, i think that the

topic has to be raised has there been appropriate development of schools to make people want to give back, to make people who aren't in our communities look at them as viable institutions. a lot of them is whether they are supported or not is centered around have they been positioned where the institutions were people to invest in. if you went to a campus that had had dilapidated buildings, low resources and your classes were small, no matter how much nurturing, you're going to look at it as a second tier opportunity. we have a lot of graduates with a lot of resentment not because the school had incompetence or not because it was unable to execute a vision, it's because the public trust, particularly for public larger institutions haven't invested in the school that makes people say i want to go, i want to give back and

grow. >> 30 seconds here. some final thoughts. something that folks who are watching and listening might not know about hbcus that they should. >> first, i would like to say that florida a&m university has been recognized as the number one in the country. something that most people don't know about hbcus is that they are no matter what the facilities look like, no matter how long it takes to get your financial aid check, no matter how many facilities need to be updated, these are places that accept the people with the most potential and produce some of the greatest trailblazers in our society today. >> last word here, 10 seconds. first order of business? >> first order of business is to increase the quality, to attract more students to engage in research and become global. we want to be recognized as the best in college, best in brand. >> we are going to leave it

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