"the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" all the way live from new york. i'm michael eric dyson in for ed schultz. let's get to work. >> i think the people that barack obama has been associating with are anti-american. >> the tea party is here. they're doing a great thing. >> i am not sure how i would describe it. . >> the only commonality across the board. >> we've got god on our side. he's going to make sure we win this revolution. >> 1776. >> anger and discontent with the government. >> these people hold themselves out to be people. >> after the bundy thing, they went over there for a couple days. >> get your army out of nevada. >> jared didn't like the government and the police. he was talking about killing cops.

>> i'm not sure how i would describe it. >> these people will hold themselves out to be patriots, are not. >> these people are waiting for the big federal apocalypse. they're waiting for the big war. >> you've got to believe that something is brewing here. >> nothing more than domestic terrorists. >> let's get one thing right. let's get it straight right now. rhetoric matters. no politician or commentator is responsible for the tragic murders in las vegas. amanda and jared miller are. however, conservatives rushed to make totalitarian comparisons but run from responsibility when blood hits the ground. let's look back at the two suspects, amanda and jared miller. the married couple allegedly shot officers allen beck and igor salado at a piz aparlor before fleeing to a walmart. the suspects died on the scene, leaving behind the trail to a

so-called revolution. >> immediately upon the shooting finishing, the suspects pulled the officers out of the booth and on to the ground where they placed a gazden flag on the body of officer beck. they also threw a swastika on top of his body. at that point, mr. jared miller then pinned a note to officer saldo that basically stated this is the beginning of the revolution. >> the political markers surrounding the violence are identifiable and traceable. most noticeably, the don't tread on me flag is the hallmark of a tea party rally. these physical and verbal relics from the crime scene are the precipice of a social media trail, detailing hatred for the federal government. jared miller where on june 7th, we can hope for peace, we must, however, prepare for war. we face an enemy that is not

only well-funded, but who believed they fight for freedom and justice, to stop the oppression i fear can only be accomplished with bloodshed. miller was a bundy supporter, and in an interview conducted at the ranch, he made open threats against law enforcement. >> i feel sorry for any federal agents that want to come in here and try to push us around or anything like that. i really don't want violence toward them. but if they're going to come bring violence to us, well, if that's the language they want to speak, we'll learn it. >> amanda and jared miller both cited the government as an oppressive force. the las vegas police underscored their radical sentiments. >> we didn't necessarily believe that they are white supremacists or associated with the nazi movement. we believe they equate government and law enforcement fascism and those who support it with nazis. >> despite professed right wing identity, conservative politicians will not address the shooting in las vegas in any

meaningful way. this was domestic terrorism, plain and simple. speaker john boehner was asked directly today whether he thinks this senseless violence was an act of domestic terrorism. >> on the shootings in las vegas, do you consider that an act of domestic terrorism? >> i -- i'm not sure how i would describe it. but clearly we had a couple of sick individuals who engaged in a horrific crime. and our hearts go out to those famili families, especially to the families of those two officers who went down. >> my friends, boehner cannot push this off on illness alone. these individuals acted on fostered radical anti-government beliefs. the federal government was their enemy, and jared and amanda miller were at war. and they're not alone. conservatives should rush to condemn these individuals. but they won't, because they've cultivated the very environment in which the millers' sentiment was spawned.

the suspects likened the united states government to nazi germany. i wonder where they got that idea. >> you go to the 1940s, nazi germany. look, we saw in britain. neville chamberlain, who told the british people, accept the nazis. yes, they'll dominate the continent of europe. but that's not our problem. let's apiece them. why, because it can't be done. we can't possibly stand against them. so we get to obamacare. and what all of those voices say. can't be stopped. can't be done. cannot defund it. >> my friends, this kind of rhetoric has no place in american politics. the idea that anything president obama has done compares to naziism or fascism is offensive. but a group of republicans believe this to be true. the fact that some americans are desensitized to the frequency of these comments is utterly

dangerous. neighbors of amanda and jerryd miller were familiar with their violent tone, but didn't believe their threats. now they wish they would have done something. told someone. some right wing conservatives just don't hear extremists like the millers. they rely on them, as well. do they feel regret? get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. is the rhetoric of a government takeover dangerous for america? text a for yes, text b for no. to 67622. or go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. i'll bring you the results later in the show. joining me now from las vegas is nevada political journalist and tv host, john raulston. you've been critical for calling them patriots. do you think politicians bear any responsibility for fostering the climate that led to this heinous act? >> yeah, i think that -- listen, i've been very critical of heller for what i've used the word enable. you used the correct word too in

saying cultivated this environment. i don't think we can go too far yet. there is a lot of information to come out about the millers. but what we do know -- in fact, a former sheriff was on the radio here today, talking about how he had talked to people in law enforcement. they went to visit these two about a month ago. i think based on the tip from homeland security because of their rhetoric. they visited them, decided they were cleared, and left. and then this happened. you never know where this stuff is going to come from. here's what we do know. we know when people like dean heller, when we have an assembly woman by the name of michelle fiori, a congressional candidate, niger ennis enabling this rhetoric, where they think the kind of rhetoric the millers and others out at the bundy ranch were using becomes more mainstream, their behavior can come from that. i'm not saying you can draw direct nexus, michael, but surely they bear a greater responsibility as public figures. not just simply pander to a

potentially violent element that's already anti government, already angry. did they enable this? i think there is absolutely no question, things like this do happen because of they're being enabled by people in the public eye. >> don't you find it ironic? on the one hand, republicans and conservatives are quick to point out the empirical relationship between, say, some artifact in pop culture, some rap song or some video or some, you know, x game or something, and some violence that has been manifested. but when it comes to the direct correlation between the rhetoric they have jemd up and ratcheted up with their extraordinarily extreme remarks and the violence done, they claim amnesty here and don't even want to talk about the relationship. >> yeah, listen. i don't want to condone extremist rhetoric on either side. but certainly, there's almost a direct mimicking of the kind of language that a ted cruz uses on the senate floor. dean heller calling them patriots. think about that word. he is saying that these people are essentially thein herters of the mantle of the folks who

risked their lives in 1776. so they think of themselves as revolutionaries, meaning that it's okay to kill people because they're fighting for a just cause. that's what disturbs me so much about heller calling them patriots, about candidates out here in nevada going out to the bundy ranch and enabling these people, saying yes, be anti-government. go after the blm. government is the evil. clive and bundy demanding that the sheriff here -- the sheriff -- disarm federal agents because he's the only true authority. and then when he doesn't do that, he writes him off. and, again, that kind of rhetoric is mimicked by these folks on social media, and look what happens. >> yeah. no doubt. we're in a catch-22, aren't we? on the one hand, the national attention is necessary, because we want to point these things out. but at this same time, you can ask the question, has the national media attention emboldened people like jared and amanda miller? >> that's a tough one, right? because we have a job to do. should we be playing the same clips over and over again? i guess you could argue about

that. of course, we have a greater responsibility too. but when you have a u.s. senator or a congressional candidate or a prominent state official mouthing this same rhetoric and then trying to wash their hands, pontius pilate like of anything bad that might happen and then actually saying, well, i didn't want it to go that far. that kind of rhetoric does enable these folks, as i said before. it makes them feel more comfortable about what they're saying, and listen, words do matter. words can lead to deeds. they have a greater responsibility, and yeah, you're right, michael. we do too. >> yeah, and that pontius pilate is right, because the end result was, the question is what is truth. john ralston, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you. for more, let me bring in ring of fire radio host and america's lawyer, mike pap antonio. mike, the suspect, jared miller was interviewed by al jazeeraa america. >> i'm not afraid of death.

i'm afraid of living under tyranny. i'm afraid of my nieces and nephews having to grow up with, you know, the day they're born they have $50,000 in tax debt over their heads already. >> i can't help but ask, don't these words sound like a lot of politicians we've heard? >> it is the place of origin, michael. that's what you're talking about here. i agree with you. the place of origin for anti government poison has been generated not only by the government hate talk that comes from the regular suspects like glenn beck or rush limbaugh or the hostility spewed from fox news types like sean hannity or laura ingram. we have to be honest about what's happening here. it used to be this was fringe crazy talk. now it's mainstream. now, look, amanda and jared committed the murders. but for the republican -- the leadership in the republican party to say we have no responsibility is almost dark humor. from -- look, they created this

whole notion. how did they do it? they did it by repeating these narratives. we have heard them. michael, you have reported on them. msnbc has carried these stories forever. the government has created death panels. how about that? where was that created? that was created not just by the hate talkers on radio or tv. it was created by republican leadership. the government has built fema prison camps for vocal critics. where did that come from? it came from the michele bachmann s and the sarah palins, repeated again and again. anti-government. or the government has a plan to take our guns and make us their subjects. where did that come from? rush limbaugh says it, glenn beck says it. more importantly, the leadership in the republican party has used those very kinds of words. so we hear that kind of clown talk narrative. we hear that coming from gop's leadership, like milk he will bachmann, like ted cruz and bobby jindal. and the worst thing we can do, michael, the worst we can do, is

simply treat it like it's some cartoonish babble, because it's not. in the last few years we have seen a dozen police officers murdered by anti-government as an anti government statement. we have seen anti-government lunatics fly their airplane into an irs building, because we have this message that government's too big and the irs is taking our money. we have seen the multiple tim mcveigh type efforts to murder government workers with everything from car bombs to letter bombs to package bombs. >> right. >> and the republican tea party has got to say, yes, we have some responsibility here. we created this audiologist way back to the beginning of the southern strategy with lee at water. >> right. let's trace it back even further. people point to ronald reagan as the beginning of this. the suspicion of government is the predicate for the kind of reassertion for conservative values and attack upon the

liberals who are too big in government. and they say, look, we're not talking about anti-government. we're anti big government. don't associate us with this stuff. but as we see, brother mike, there is a relationship directly between the vicious assault upon government and what we see being acted out in the streets with these lunatic fringes. >> when lee at water took ronald reagan and stood on his platform, it was anti-government. it simply has progressed from a simple talking appointment point to now an i'd deology tha the republican party, by way of the tea party, has embraced completely. now, for them to say we have no responsibility here, they understand the responsibility. they understand that when they started this talk, michael, they were looking for foot soldiers. when the republican movement came on the scene and they said, we have an agenda that seems contrary to what most people think, what they had to do is create foot soldiers to talk like them and think like them

and part of creating the footel soldier was to attack government, to create this religious following, almost, that is anti-government. that's what we saw play itself out in nevada. and you know what, we're going to see it again and again. and we're still going to hear fox news do several things, even though they know they're responsible for that kind of talk. they're going to ignore it. or they're going to say this is just another reason to believe that everybody ought to have a gun, or they're going to say obama is somehow at fault here. >> yeah. >> so we have been down this road many times, be many iterations. >> well, yeah, it's no question and a very complicated story but one that really begs for our attention. mike papantonio, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you, michael. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter @edshow and on facebook. we want to know what you think. coming up, radio silence. the conservative pundits spewing anti-government extremism are silent on sunday's shooting

rampage plus, democrats are taking action to make student loan debt more manageable. congressman elijah cummings and john tierney join me in the rapid response panel. ♪ i say ye ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ yeah ♪ 'cause you make me feel ♪ like a pony ♪ so good ♪ like a pony ♪ so good ♪ like a pony [ male announcer ] the sentra with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ mony mony

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time now for the trenders. keep in touch with the ed show on twitter at ed show and on facebook, and you can find me at michael e. dyson. the ed show social media nation has decided and we are reporting. here are today's top trenders, vote on by you. >> the number three trender. run around. >> the democrats in the media are already trying to force the next alines keyite on us and that would be hillary. >> his advice, it lacks substance. >> what does she run on. >> if she decides to run for

president, she will be judged on her performance and record. >> she has got to run on history. first, female. >> go, power. feminism. >> and it's bring bill clinton back to washington. >> i was able to get into the oval office tonight because i know the guy at the door. >> the number two trender. arctic adventure. >> has it always been your dream to be a polar bear for a day? >> turn you into a huge bear for seven years. >> the u.s. joe logical survey has strapped on to the polar bears. >> the usgs gives us a polar bear point of view. >> they saw the bears eating the icy ocean waters, trying to eat frozen seals. >> the bear sees a potential mate. how ya doin'? this was a riveting soap opera. they're hoping that by releasing this information, it might help scientists understand the bears' nutritional demands and even their energy expenditure as the sea ice is declining. >> and today's top trender,

static cling. >> i say the time is right for the american revolution. >> radical rhetoric floods right wing radio. >> you have revolution when people feelin' visible. >> barack obama's comrades. there, that's right. all over the federal government have hijacked the institutions of government and are now turning them on the people. >> when people feel invisible, they go for their guns. >> we're getting to the place where our government is controlling much more of what we say, what we think, what we do. >> under normal circumstances, we would actually have a massive revolt in this country right now. >> we are now the radicals. we are now the revolutionaries. we have to start looking for ways to short-circuit things. >> joining me now is talk radio consultant, holland cook. hold, is the right right wing media stoking this sentiment. we're not trying to blame anybody, but trying to figure out what atmosphere is created by the rhetoric we're hearing. >> yeah. to be fair, it was these two nut

jobs who were the cop killers, not the voices on the radio. but michael, i remember a conversation you and i had about a half dozen years ago. we were preparing to launch a talk radio show, and you and i talked about two things. we said, being on the radio means it's real. anyone can blog, anyone can mouth off succinctly on twitter, anyone can do a podcast. but when it's broadcast, when it's on radio or tv, people deserve to believe it. and the other thing you and i talked about is that people might hear every third word. many radio listeners are driving. so they're kind of half hearing what we're seeing. and what's floating around in this atmosphere is a very toxic phrase that pays. we keep hearing fight used as a noun and a verb. the fight. and we've got to fight. we keep hearing about armed revolution, and all of this stuff has crept so very gradually into the lexicon, in the half dozen years since you

and i had this conversation, that even the commercials are speaking to this. in the post sandra fluke ad boycott that has up-ended rush limbaugh's business model, one of the prominent ad categories in his show is help for tax delinquents. if you haven't filed, enter the promo code rush. even the commercials are speaking to people who would be sympathetic to this cattle battle squatter out in nevada. >> yeah. well, how do we make a legitimate distinction between groups that are expressing legitimate outrage against some expression of government or the other versus the kind of lunatic fringe that really appeals to this toxic and very, you know, scandalously violent character of contemporary politics that seem to attach to the far right? i'm not saying they're the only ones, but seems to be very consistent right now. >> yeah. and not just talk radio.

not just cable tv. not just social media. all of it together. there has never been more case for caveat emtor about which you consume on the internet. now we have to question what is broadcast, as that montage you played demonstrates. >> yeah, so when you talk about responsibility, where is the responsibility from these broadcasters and their employers? how do we hold them accountable in light of this? >> amen. the oops moment with cliven bundy talking about the negro. you notice how all the guys who were calling him heroes before that suddenly called him despicable. he just fell right off the map. what we used to have in the media is called fact checking and editing. but in this a.d.d. culture we live in, a story, a news cycle, people just jump on stories before the other media beat them to it.

and i think the news media that are diligent about getting it right will become conspicuous in this atmosphere. >> well, i don't know if they were trying to get it right, but i know one station, of course, that did not or at least one set of commentators that did not touch this, that weren't trying to imitate what others were doing. there was almost no talk of the las vegas shooting on fox's prime time program last night after news of the connection the shooters had to the bundy ranch. so what's your take on their silence? >> yeah. it's commissioned by omission. the radio station i used to manage in washington, d.c., wt oh op, the big news station, has a sign on the newsroom wall to this day that says "get it right. then get it first." they're hell-bent on earning your trust. but people are going to piece this together. they're going to start to also notice what's not there. because there are so many news outlets and because we are a

culture of channel surfers, they're going to start figuring it out, i hope. >> well, yeah. here's hoping that that aspiration becomes true. holland cook, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> you bet, michael. still ahead, democrats take action to ease student loan debt. congressman elijah cummings and john tanner join me next. and later, george will's ignorant column about campus rape tries to spend victim hood as a privilege. but next, i'm taking your questions. met live is just ahead.

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right and who are conservative say, yep, you know, with some caveats, this could be a good idea. and then when president obama pulls the trigger, so to speak, and then swaps bergdahl for the five taliban prisoners, all of a sudden, it's a brouhaha. because obama can never do anything right. look, i think it's always good when a president, instead of trying to forcibly extract someone through means of war indeed goes into an act of diplomacy, an act of trade. we know it's very rare, but what's rarer still is the common sense to say maybe if we can gain the goodwill of the world by not always stomping our foot on the collective necks of vulnerable people, but seeing a way to negotiate and to trade our way through a difference, we might have a better nation. our next question is from rachel how do we change the hearts and minds of people like

dr. king did? that's a great question, rachel dr. king was a man of action. he was also a man of love. he was a man of peace. dr. king believed that we could only overcome the vicious violence of this nation by believing in each other, by loving each other. by literally loving the hell out of each other. he wasn't a ma'am bee pamby we are the world kind of figure who believed in love. his love was entrenched and rooted in the belief that god would give strength to those who were willing to stand up for justice, for truth and righteousness. this is why dr. king said i am a drum major for those good things. but we have to give up the arrogance to presume our way is the only way. when people nowadays go about social movements and compare themselves to dr. king, they're doing a grand disservice. because dr. king didn't use his christian beliefs to make this a christian nation. he used his religious beliefs to make this a just nation. he could work with a person who

was an atheist better than he could work with a person who claimed to be a christian but who was committed to acts of violence that divided the black from the white, the rich from the poor and the south from the north. if we're going to engage in the kind of practices that dr. king believed in, what you and i must do is to give up our beliefs in the arrogance of our own ways, and to get rid of the bigotry. his teacher, howard thurman, said a bigot is a person who makes an idle of his commitments. let's stop idolizing our commitments and learn humbly to live with one another as brothers and sisters to overcome our differences. stick around. the rapid response panel is next. i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. stocks had a little change. the dow up two. the s&p ends down a fraction. the nasdaq up a point. gm says it doesn't expect any

other firings related to the company's delayed ignition switch recall. ceo mary barra says gm has taken appropriate action. google is making an acquisition, buying imaging firm sky box for $500 million. and shares of radioshack slid 10% after the retailer reported its ninth straight quarterly loss. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas. this ensures we can produce clean electricity whenever our customers need it. ♪

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these young people tint go didn't go to the mall and run up charges on a credit card. they worked hard, they stayed in class, they learned new skills. and they borrowed what they needed to pay for an education. >> welcome back to "the ed show." millions of young people in the united states are facing a mountain of debt, outstanding

student loans now total more than $1.2 trillion, which surpasses total credit card debt in this country. and every year, students are taking on more. but only one political party wants to do something about it. >> lower tax bills for millionaires or lower student loan bills for the middle class. this should be a no-brainer. >> no-brainer at all. student loan debt is hurting our economy and holding back a generation of americans. it demands the immediate attention of congress, student loan rates are double, triple or even quadruple the amount needed to cover administrative costs. the costs of funds and bad debts. on monday, president obama signed an executive order allowing students to cap their monthly loan payments at 10% of their income. geez, where were you when i needed you. the senate republican leadership is calling the move an election year gimmick. >> my counsel to my members, why

would we get a bill that is clearly not going anywhere. it would be blue slipped by the house. >> when is the last time you have been in school, my friend? joining me now is our rapid response panel, elijah cummings and congressman tyranny from massachusetts. you introduced legislation that would give borrowers the opportunity to refinance their student loans. why do you think republicans think that is a bad idea? >> well, because they think it should be a profit center. they have obviously run up a significant debt in this country from iraq through a host of other matters they promulgated. and the problem is, they need to find a profit to pay down that debt. using students and their parents as that base. and both senator warren and i have been working on this for a long time, and the idea is that this is about access to the education, about affordability and getting people out into the job market or into their life as innovators and entrepreneurs. and be able to do it without

lugging around a big debt. we can do this by making sure the loans were paid back to principle, a little bit of management cost and default factor in there and bring the interest rates way down. and that's what we should be doing. >> access and affordability are critical, congressman cummings. president obama expressed outrage at what he thinks young people are facing. listen to this. >> i don't know why folks aren't more outraged about this. i'm going to take a pause out of my prepared text. you would think that if somebody like me has done really well in part because the country is invested in them, they wouldn't mind at least paying the same rate as a teacher or a nurse. there's not a good economic argument for it. that they should pay a lower rate. it's just clout. that's all. >> congressman cummings, is he taking a strong enough stance

there, president obama? >> i think he is. and, you know, first of all, let me say about representative tierney. in 2007 he worked to cut interest rates in half on these student loans and in 2012, he was able to make sure that he didn't double. and now the bill that we're talking about. but -- and i applaud him for all of that. clearly, the president is on message, and he's absolutely right. we've got to fight for our young people. the number two or three question that comes to me when people -- do you have a program that's going to allow me to be able to help pay my student loans. we've got to do that. keep in mind that, you know, the cost of college has gone up three times in the last 30 years. in other words, it's gone up tremendously, 30% in the last 30 years. and the wages have not gone up. and so people are struggling. they want their children to do better than what they did.

but if they cannot afford an education, cannot pay back the debt, there is a problem. it's -- as tierney said, these folks are putting their lives on hold. that's why the massachusetts mortgage bankers support the legislation. bankers supporting this kind of legislation? you know why? because they realize that students -- when people come out of college, they are saddled with debt, cannot get started. many of them have to move back into their homes of their parents. and so they want to see the economy move forward and people be able to buy homes, start businesses and move on with their life. >> sure. congressman tierney, the congressional budget office estimated your proposal would reduce the deficit by about $22 billion over ten years. how can republicans argue with those numbers and really stand against that? >> well, they can't, on a legitimate basis, but they're arguing for the sake of argument. they see this as a profit center. and in reality, we shouldn't even have to pay for this, because we're really just talking about not having a profit. and in a sense, what we had to

pay for in the bill, which is to do the warren buffett rule, not allowing someone in his category of income to pay a lesser tax rate than his administrative assistant. that gave us to pay for. that is again to have something to cover the debt they have run up. so their argument really is weak, if it exists at all. they just don't want to have a success for this president. they don't want to have an issue that deals with the middle class. and they're quite content to have wealthy people to well at the expense of middle class and families out there struggling. >> dr. dyson, this is, by the way, for their constituents and our constituents. it seems like all of us, like the president said -- seemed like all of us would be into this. it just makes sense. >> of course. let me ask you a question. john boehner is always talking about securing an economic future for his grandkids. my grandkids are watching now. mosey, max, layla, hope you kids are obeying your grandmother. i'll be home soon. why isn't he doing anything about his grand kids by securing their future by doing anything about this? >> you've got to ask him on that question, doctor. i'll tell you, not a day goes by we don't get a number of e-mails

and calls to the office, people stopping by, talking about the burden on them, having lugging this around or their children. the parents -- sometimes the parents have the debt, as well. the people get it. i mean, there has been a tremendous response to this. people have been asking for this for a long time. i think that the louder people speak up, the more they join together and make the noise. hopefully they're going to be the ones that force the house of representatives and the senate to actually take up some action on this and do something. it's about whose side are you on. we're clearly on the side of families. whose side are they on? >> no doubt. congressman elijah cummings, congressman john tyranny, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, alex jones sports another false flag operation. pretenders is next. stick around. awesome, amazing, that's epic, bro. whatever happened to good? good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it. good is maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop

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built for business. now, that's progressive. . welcome back to "the ed show." victims of rape or sexual assault are called many names, a tease, a liar. but according to fox news contributor and syndicated columnist george will, victims of sexual assault are privileged. see, george will believes the so-called rape epidemic is simply a product of progressivism's elevation of victim hood. will argues progressivism made victim hood a coveted status that confers privileges and as a result, victims proliferate. george will wants to dismiss statistics and trivialize the trauma of sexual assault. what you see on the screen are fact it is a george will dhoozs to ignore. there's an epidemic of survivors of sexual assault and rape.

often these victims find themselves ostracized, ma raszed or threatened by their peer, their college, the police. those survivors then have to function within a culture that awards a victim-blaming columnist a pulitzer prize and a platform in t"the washington pos post". their survival is a product of their own strength. not something afforded to them by progressivism or anyone else. joining us now is a columnist from "the grio.com. you' got to can ask, should george will still have a job? should "the washington post" have to answer for publishing this? and what actual purpose does his column serve? >> well, i think his column is just the latest in a long line of columns. there was a column for "time" magazine also that presented the same rape apologist arguments that victims somehow are contributing to their own attacks.

if they fill in a blank, got a gun, never drank, didn't wear a skirt, all that. they don't put a priority on making sure the survivor is okay first. and numb bier two, they don't talk about consent, which is what we need to be talking about when we talk about sexual assault. in the piece he uses an example where he's talking about an young woman and a man who were dating where there was previous sex that happened. and she said no and he did it anyway. he had intercourse with her anyway. that is a rape. he uses the example to show that oh, these college aged women are, you know, dealing with blurred lines and that's not actually rape. they're calling things rape that aren't actually rape. and he's wrong about that. >> when he used words like so-called rape epidemic, doesn't that trivialize the trauma that a woman has to face and then they're re-raped, retraumatized

again by what mr. will exhibits? >> absolutely. the only way's able to make that argument is number one, he's probably not spoken to anyone who's actually survived rape. i have. there's nothing privileged about it. if we demystified what a rape kit is, people would uh understand that -- there's nothing -- it sounds benign. it's an invasive process in which you're given all kinds of medication, because the doctors are trying to do their due diligence and making sure there are no sexually transmitted diseases. we're talking about a violation of your physical body against your will because there's no consent. and so a rape kit sounds benign, and maybe george will doesn't understand that it is, again, retraumatizing the victim whence they're at their most vulnerable. >> well, after that outrageous column and, of course, the response of twitter and other social media. the #survivor privilege picked up steam.

tell us about that and how these social campaigns are to really raising awareness. >> the hashtag was created by one of my friends who also went to tufts university, my alma mater. she started the hashtag because she's speaking from her own experience. she was assaulted on a ledge campus that did not have her best interests at heart. her rapist was not expelled. often times rapists are found guilty within the administrative process and then not expelled from school. >> that's remarkable. >> so you're in the same class potentially with the person who attacked you and was found guilty. >> are they punished at all? >> no. sometimes they're assigned book reports or perhaps maybe put on some sort of suspension or probation. but certain -- my -- tufts university does not automatically expel someone found guilty in the administrative process. and they were found noncompliant with title nine, the law, the federal statute that's on point with gender discrimination and sexual assault cases.

so, you know, the white house task force did a great job. they put out a great report listening to survivors, right? they need to listen to our experiences. that's what the hashtags do. this puts the focus on concept and education so we stop rapes before they happen and we're not blaming people for what's happening to them and say oh, well, if you just had an ar-15, when you're an 8-year-old girl or boy abused by someone, you wouldn't have been attacked. because that's a ridiculous argument anyway. >> it is. you pointed out, it happened in "time" magazine and "the washington post," how pervasive is this mindset? do you think this is something that's pretty much exceptional? or do you think it's deeply engrained? >> it's deeply engrained in our culture. the bottom line here is that we need to be talking in a serious manner about masculinity and how people are expressing masculinity. if they're expressing nit a violent way. if you assert your power over a

woman you think is weaker or less than you is to then hit them or to have intercourse without their consent -- because if a woman says no, you then -- you don't wear her down and you don't try to manipulate her into doing what you want. if she says no, that's a no. a no is a no. there are no such things as blurred lines when it comes to consent. >> very quickly, how can people respectively respond so pieces like george will's won't be the dominant topic of conversation, but their counterarguments will. >> mr. there's plenty of literature online. i wrote a piece last week really taking down point by point many of the arguments that george will made and many other rape apologists make. i think, you know, in our small communities, you know, when you're talking to friends and family who have similar ideas to george will, you have to, you know, come back and say it is not the you can have tim's fault. they're not the one who chose to rape. it's always the rapist's choice to do it. >> all right. that's it for tonight. this is "the ed show" i'm

sitting in for ed shultz. we're grateful to have this opportunity to talk to all of our friends here in america. and we're also, of course, i want to thank you for joining us here thank you. and we're always in tune and in time for the great topics of the day. we're grateful for this opportunity. i love my man ed shultz and sitting in for him is a wonderful, remarkable opportunity. and we invite all of you to come back to recall night when i have a chance again to say hello to you, to talk to you and engage you in some of the most stimulatin stimulating, interesting topics of the day. it's always fun to talk to my grandchildren on camera as well. that was a treat as well. we're grateful for this opportunity. now i'll turn it over to the baptist preacher from michael eric dyson to the right reverend al sharpton. >> tonight's lead, the gop's s dishonesty