underway today in brazil. the host nation plays croatia. that's going to do it for way too early. morning joe starts right now. voters are simply angry. >> people don't like the status quo. >> the big message for washington is that nothing is going to get passed in any form of legislation. >> there's no chance for compromise. >> forget about it. >> i think it's even deader. >> it's going to be very dangerous now for a republican to talk to democrats. >> oh, no! congress' current golden age of cooperation and productiveness is over. >> good morning. it's thursday, june 12th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu harold ford jr. from "the huffington post," sam

stein. and then in washington the washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. along with willie, joe, and me. joe, the shock waves continued throughout the day. i saw you on "hardball" with chris matthews and michael steele yesterday. this cantor story, i mean, it's really caused quite an effect across both parties, actually. >> yeah, i said last night and it just came to me. this is one of the biggest upsets since douglas beat tyson in japan. >> that's big. >> willie geist, it may have said more about the fact that cantor was more mike tyson on a very, very down decade and maybe buster doesn't make it for very long. but i think it maybe had to do more with the weaknesses of one than the other. but you had this dave brat who had what it took to pull off the

stunning upset. you remember that one? you remember that fight? that was a massive upset. >> do i? i think it was 42-1 that buster douglas would win and he did win. i think like mike tyson, eric cantor took some things for granted in that race and it came back to bite him. >> also republicans have been putting up, quote, tea party people over the past few years that just weren't that talented. they were amateurs. it's like pat buchanan says, he talks about the political athleticism. and this guy's actually good. we haven't heard a lot of, but he sounds articulate and intelligent. some of the people we put up in 2010, they would have thought he was an outfielder for the dodgers of frederick hayek they would have said is that selma's

dad. >> we're going to hear more on this. >> it's fascinating. >> absolutely. more from him coming up. and also talk about the now race to replace cantor in his leadership position. but first we have to start in iraq. 11 years after american troops arrived in baghdad, the city is facing the threat of a new invasion. this time from the same insurgents the u.s. spent time fighting. stunning speed and now fighters are vowing to march all the way to the capital. their goal is to establish an islamic state that spans across iraq and syria. as the map shows, they already control huge portions of countries. they used to be known as al qaeda and iraq. now fighters have teamed up with others to fight the governments

of iraq and syria as well as other rebels. as richard engel reports, the conflict is erupting along sectarian lines posing the threat of a new civil war. >> why is this happening? sunnis ruled iraq for 13 centuries until the u.s. invasion toppled saddam hussein. the sunnis want their country back. they hate the shiite government which has excluded them from power and there are no u.s. troops around anymore to stop them. >> the u.s. is weighing options to help the iraqi government whose soldiers allowed their weapons to fall into enemy hands. so far the obama administration has denied requests from baghdad to target the extremists with drone strikes. so let's bring in columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius, author of the new novel "the director," an expert on all of these issues.

and, david, you know, richard engel posed the first question. why is this happening? why is this happening and what does it tell us about every other engagement we have going on right now in the area? >> it's happening with what seems stunning speed, but in truth for the last six months this has been gathering force in the sunni areas of western iraq. and it's happening because prime minister malaki is seen as a sectarian divisive leader, not the leader of all iraq. iraq we left a very fragile truce, if you will, between sunni and shiite. and that has been breaking apart. what, i think, has shocked former u.s. commanders as they've looked at the news the last few days is how quickly the iraqi army has crumbled in the jewel of northern iraq, a city renowned for learning.

the army fled leaving behind its equipment and tanks. i'm told one reason they have performed so badly is malaki has fired any in a top position has replaced him with his own people loyal to him politically. on the eve of the war against nazi germany and having an army that was almost leaderless. the question is where can the iraqi army now form a line of defense? and i'm told they're beginning to form it just north of baghdad. which is important because in effect malaki has given up the territory north of this line north of the military base. finally the question i hear policy makers asking today is, is it possible for malaki to put

this country back together? he's so suspect among other ethnic groups in iraq, can he be the person that the u.s. works with to restore a working iraq? and there's much more skepticism today than a week ago. >> you know, david, it sounds like we're still paying for the decisions bremer made a decade ago to route all of the sunnis out of power. it sounds like he's doing it again. this is a country that cannot be held together without buying from the sunnis. >> it can't be held together without buying from the sunnis and every ethnic group. there's only one way that iraq survives whole. and that's the people feel that they're part of a country that accepts them. certainly the mistakes we made during the occupation in which we really were seeking to franchise the shiite majority under a shiite prime minister and the kurdish north which has

its quasi autonomous federation. i can remember people working for bremer saying to me in that period, we're going to have an 80%. the sunnis not with us don't matter, but we'll take the 80%. >> katty kay, let me read a quick line from dexter philcan's piece. the rapid advance of militants across the sunni heartland of iraq has been stunning and relentless and utterly predictable. here's a forecast. the bad news is just beginning. what are we watching and where does it go from here? >> i spoke to a congressman last night and asked him whether what we're seeing in iraq is a prelude to what we may see in afghanistan a few years down the road. he said you have to at least

consider the possibility that once american forces leave afghanistan, we leave a complicated country with divisions in the population where there are a lot of weapons and the possibility of a breakdown of security like this. what you have in iraq, of course, is what's happening in syria. as those iraqi personnel have been abandoning their post, they've been leaving behind their weapons which have been picked up by the militant forces. they are even more well armed now. and you have to look at baghdad. they're now 70 kilometers away from the capital of iraq and wonder how far they're going to get. >> all right. we're going to come back to this but move now to politics and the fallout surrounding the news of eric cantor. he will exit one of the most powerful offices in the land by the end of july. he faced the press in the wake of his double digit loss to dave

brat. one said john boehner fought back tears. that's not surprising. he's a crier. >> it was a wednesday, so -- >> they talked about what went wrong and played on all day with many in virginia saying cantor had become a washington insider who simply forgot his roots and virginia values. a claim cantor disputes. >> you know, i was in my district every week. so, you know, there's a balance between holding a leadership position and serving constituents at home. but never was there a day did i not put the constituents of the seventh district of virginia first and i will continue to do so. >> why shouldn't somebody be running scared at this point after an unprecedented loss by a majority leader? >> i suggest all politics are local. and there was obviously a lot of attention that was cast on our

race. but again, i think that our members are in good position in their districts. >> i don't really hear an explanation. maybe he doesn't know, joe, what happened. but he doesn't seem to explain it. >> you know, a lot of us -- a lot of people yesterday tried to cast a wide net on this defeat. but if you look at what's happened over the past year. tea party candidates have lost in race after race after race after race. and it leads only one conclusion. this is more about eric cantor than it is anything else. now, he can say, sam stein, that he was not disconnected from the values of his district and that he went home an awful lot. >> right. >> i would suggest any political candidate that spends more money at washington, d.c., steak houses than his opponent spends in an entire campaign would

probably meet the definition of disconnected in most districts across america. he was just disconnected. he had become a creature of washington, d.c. also, sam, one other thing nobody brought up yesterday. if you're a small government conservative like me and you start to get irritated at this guy because he's not connected at home and he's trying to get rid of conservative party leaders across the state which he was trying to do, then you look at his voting record which he voted for the drug benefit plan that cost $7 trillion and they didn't pay for a dime of it. he voted to bail out the big banks on wall street which caused this country to crash. then he insulted your intelligence by trying to strike a deal on reform. and he ran commercials that his opponent was for amnesty. you throw up your hands and say how stupid does cantor really

think we are. >> let's not malign steak. steak is great. >> steak is great. >> all right. >> secondly, i agree with all those points. we were sort of tallying it up. eric cantor had four or five rebrands. we're you're trying to rebrand so frequently, you begin to lose your sense of who you are as a politician. i think people have a lot of difficulty to find who eric cantor was. i think he became more of a schemer than a conservative. i think people in the district thought he was out of touch. i think the immigration stuff, you know, i don't think he was in support of immigration reform. it did insult the intelligence of his constituents when he went back and said, all the stuff i said in washington, d.c., you've been reading it wrong. >> huge events. now the rush is on to find his replacement atop the short list

whip kevin mccarthy who got cantor's blessing. i don't know if that's a good thing. robert costa said mccarthy is using a paper scoring system dating back to the '90s. he's looking to get ahead of others like pete sessions of texas also said to be going for cantor's old position. joe, you know these guys. what do you think? >> i think kevin mccarthy may be in -- maybe he's in a good position because of where he's been. but he is associated with cantor. >> he's got -- >> well, i was just going to say organizationally the way people think inside of that building, that may seem like an advantage. i really believe, though, at the end of the day you're going to look at people like pete sessions which helped master mind the 2010 landslide victory

and the guy i know that's been a friend of mine. both of these guys seem to fit the mood of congress much better right now than kevin mccarthy does. i think this could be a wide open race. >> who do you think would be best at it given what the party needs? >> well, i mean, i think they all have their strengths. kevin's been on the show. he's good at articulating the message without scaring little kids. jeb is a good conservative and has a moderate temperament. and i've known pete for a very long time. so i'm not going to pick. i think probably if i were there today i would be looking closely at jeb and closely at pete. >> harold.

>> eric cantor was probably best because of his position on the immigration and projecting let's expand the party. but he won't be there any longer. i agree with joe. i think the party republicans if you look at the way they're positioned now and organized ni now, jeb is in alignment with the tea party. he probably shocks the mainstream business community particularly the new york business community because of his fiscal policy and his thoughts on reorganization of fannie mae and freddie mac. how does the texas delegation respond and what does this mean going forward in many ways for republican politics in the congress and equally if not more so republican politics nationally. >> yeah. in 2016, joe. >> we shall see. i have no answers. it's an inside game right now.

i would think, though, if i had to put money on anybody i would think jeb would be in the best position. but we'll see. >> okay. let me get to one other big story here. the prisoner exchange for bowe bergdahl came under even more scrutiny yesterday as chuck hagel testified on capitol hill. he admitted the administration had to make a tough call and perhaps could have handled it better. that didn't stop him from facing really tough questions. >> you're trying to tell me that he's being held because of his medical condition? >> i hope you're not implying anything other than that. >> i'm just asking the question, mr. secretary. >> i'm going to give an answer too. i don't like the implication of the question. >> answer it. answer it. >> he's being held because our medical professionals don't believe he's ready until they believe he is ready to take the next -- >> have you ever seen a

traumatically injured service member brought to the united states immediately upon being stabilized at landstuhl? >> we do it all the time. this isn't just a physical situation. this guy was held for almost five years in god know what kind of conditions. >> first of all, hagel, wow. i'll finish the script in a second. but he definitely was defensive and almost upset at the line of questioning. was the questioning fair, though, at this point? >> yes, it was. it was so fair. what jeff miller was asking is the same thing you were asking the day this came out saying why did they keep this guy in the hospital. when i was a reporter in connecticut, the hospital would give you all this information. they have cordoned him off. they are keeping him away from everybody. they are keeping him over here instead of bringing him back to the united states and this entire thing lacks transparency. you said it yourself.

we're getting more information on this guy from the taliban than we are from the united states government. yes, following up on what you said -- >> i understand what i said. >> i agree with jeff miller because of what you said, mika. i think you got it 100% right as always. >> let me respond. i'll stand by what i said, but i think they've also gotten themselves into a real pickle here because of how poorly this was handled from the get go. because the taliban video was provided to us before the united states government could give us enough information. and now i think we have an overall security situation surrounding this man, his family, and everything surrounding the story because it was rolled out so poorly. i'm not going to judge this guy at this point being kept away from people and perhaps even the mystery surrounding his situation, because i think the response has been totally misplayed and mishandled and misunderstood. >> by whom? >> by our white house.

>> can i just say, i would love more information. i would love to, you know, have a chance to see this. but the lack of empathy in this question for this. he could be a sympathetic for the taliban. we will know. it will come out. he was kept in captivity for five years. there has been an emotional toll on him. can we give him like a week to recuperate without casting this in a nefarious light? >> we need to make sure that he is kept safe after the whole thing has been bungled. yes, joe? >> mika, we're not sitting here questioning whether he has a right to rest quietly for as long as he wants to have a right to rest quietly. the questions being raised have to do with a white house, a white house who jay rockefeller a democrat of the intel committee said lied to them. a white house that diane feinstein said lied to them.

they have yesterday miklaszewski from the pentagon said senior foreign officials said the white house is lying when they say that he is physically -- that he was physically in danger. we have heard top officials, not me, not other republicans. we've heard top officials time and time again around washington, d.c., democrats, say this white house is not being honest with the american people over this situation. does it not beg the question why is the white house treating this situation differently than they treat people that have grievous injuries who were brought in is a short amount of time. that's what democrats want to know and i think that's what americans want to know and some republicans want to know it too. >> fair questions. we also learned bowe bergdahl enlisted in the coast guard

before joining the army. however, "the washington post" reports he received a, quote, uncharacterized discharge for psychological reasons just 26 days into basic training. people making different points here that can actually align. >> this young man's going to have a lot of questions to answer when he gets home. get a chance to perhaps understand this situation better. >> david -- can we go to david ignatius quickly here? >> please. >> this is the darnedest thing. when you have senior officials saying what the white house says is not true. you've got rockefeller, feinstein, this is murky. what do your sources say about what's going on here? >> i'd say two things. first in terms of washington inside politics, secretary hagel gave as good as he got in that testimony yesterday. secretary hagel has been a somewhat disappointing and fragile figure when confronted

by congress in the past se certainly at his confirmation hearings. but he was tough. i think that may mark a new beginning for him. second, i think our military commanders are pretty unanimous in the idea that leaving bergdahl where he was was not possible. you know, parking people in landstuhl while they get better psychologically, physically in every way is something that happens all the time. whenever anybody comes out of anywhere. it doesn't surprise me all that much. especially we're looking at a kind of a meat grinder atmosphere back in the u.s. now in terms of the media meat grinder part and the partisan politics. that doesn't surprise me. i'm sure it doesn't surprise our commanders. you do have to say what mika said which is this was not handled well by the white house. people were going to be prickly and upset.

you had to be better prepared. the pictures of the president with his arm around mr. and mrs. bergdahl, the parents, that didn't cut it. i'm not surprised that he's not home yet. if he were, we'd be declaring for a press conference. looking at that fragile young man, you'd be wondering if that would be wise. >> all right. we have so much news to get to. we're going to have an update on the school shoothing. the 74th since newtown. gunman is 15 years old. still ahead on "morning joe," as the cost of college continues to rise, we'll cover the fact that elizabeth warren's concept and ideas to try and fix the problem were knocked down by republicans. also a new documentary asked the question, is college worth it? well, we're find the answer. and then it's the case of brawn versus beauty. within the same person newly crowned miss usa.

up next just when you thought the rob ford saga couldn't get stranger, it did. and speaking of strange, here's bill kairns with a check on the forecast. spooky. bill? >> good morning, mika. we are watching rain for many of us this morning grab the umbrella in south florida. thunderstorms over in miami, but still a soaking rain for miami southward. other areas of concern for rain, we are going to watch the rain continuing up to the north. we got drenched yesterday with storms pennsylvania and areas of washington, d.c. right now we have one little thunderstorm right along i-95. also northern new england, much of upstate new york we're continuing to watch the cloudy, rainy, drizzly type morning. again, not the prettiest of late spring out there. more severe storms. also some of those storms now heading through the dallas area. but this large area of yellow,

it's a slight risk of storms, maybe a few tornadoes. that's the area that's used to it. here's your forecast for the northeast. we are watching the light rain during the day today. especially areas to the west this afternoon, even new york and philly will have a chance of thunderstorms. as far as the south goes, florida your afternoon storms in orlando and tampa. in the midwest, continuing with stormy weather patterns. we had a great weekend and now on and off days like this in washington, d.c. umbrella needed today. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need

for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪

something big has been erupting all around us. a renaissance of sorts, recognized by those that understand that they too, are big. but to shape the universe that, in turn, shapes them... ...they must align with the best, the network that has the capacity to help them be the best. as it's not just about speed and reliability. it's about being a part of a movement that moves you. for best results use verizon. ♪ let's take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the oregonian. police have identified the

gunman as jared michael padgett. he arrived at the high school with a rifle hidden in a case. he then gunned down emilio hoffman. it appears hoffman was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. the shooter again, 15 years old. >> the star ledger, a not guilty plea for the driver who injured tracy morgan. prosecution says roper had been awake for 24 consecutive hours at least at the time of the incident. comedian jimmy mcnair was killed and two others were left in critical condition following that crash. all right. "the washington pos

"the washington post." senator elizabeth warren's proposal failed to gain progress to gain traction. it would have allowed loans to refinance at lower rates for college. but the plan was little more than an election year ploy, it was said. >> "the new york times." four strippers and a club manager in new york city are accused of drugging men and racking up more than $200,000 in credit card charges. >> no. >> officials say the victims were given spiked drinks and taken to the club scores where their cards were charged illegally. they are charged with grand larceny, assault, and perjury. >> this should have been the first topic of discussion. >> it's on the cover of "the new york times." >> the dallas morning news. this 4,000 square foot home in texas is in danger of falling 75 feet into a lake. the owners evacuated the home about two weeks ago when the

cliff beneath it began collapsing. officials condemned the property and are warning people to stay away. >> good call. >> the home was worth more than $700,000 -- >> good call. >> that's horrible. >> willie, you said good call. what do you think the engineers saw when they came out and inspected that? because to the, you know, naked eye i'm looking at that thinking i might get another decade out of this thing. >> sometimes you got to make tough choices. you know? they stepped in and they said despite what you see, you shouldn't go in that house. >> what possessed them to build at that particular spot? >> it was probably the thrill of knowing it could fall into the lake at any minute. >> some people like to live on the edge. >> the toronto goldlobe and mai. rob ford is heading to the stage? rob ford the musical, the birth of a ford nation will debut at

toronto's teeter this fall. producers say it will be a comedic take on his personal and political journey. no word if rob ford will play himself. >> let's talk about our politics. there's a lot to talk about there. we've brought on with us now the president of the pew research center alan murray. you have a new extensive research. you show the divide in america that's grown. in 1994 consistently liberal and consistently conservative voters shared a wide overlap on many issues. but by 2014, the overall share of those voters have more than doubled. as a result it has diminished to 92% of republicans are to the right of the median democrat on the other side. 94% of democrats are to the left of the median republican. and attitudes towards other parties has grown more negative. the number of democrats who have

a negative view of the republican party has more than doubled to 38%. among those, 27% say the gop is a threat to the nation's well being. among republicans, negative views of the democratic party has skyrocketed from 17% to 94% to 43% today. and now the democratic party is a threat to the nation's well being, they say. joe, these numbers, i wonder if they reflect a lot of the news events we're seeing in politics today. >> i don't care that americans are getting more liberal and more conservative at the same time. the most disturbing part to me is that last number you said for both the parties that over a third of both parties think the other side is actually detrim t detrimental to the country's

health. instead of saying i know what i believe and it should would be good to have somebody balance me out, to bounce off their ideas. and if somebody thinks differently and has a better idea than me, then we can compromise, figure it out, and work together. that's not there. and alan, that mind-set was at the heart of more than governance for well over 200 years. it appears over the last decade or two, there has been a real tear in that american tradition. >> i think you're absolutely right, joe. i do think that's the most disturbing part of this report. nobody thought politics was a garden party. when you first ran for congress in 1994. but if you look at these numbers and the intensity of the negative feeling, a doubling of unfavorable view of opposing party. a majority of those think the other party is a threat to the nation and you see these negative motivations that are really driving politics today as

opposed to a positive motivation that, you know, this is somebody who stands for what i believe in is going to help us get something done. i think that was part of what was going on in virginia. >> you got a piece in the wall street journal today. they titled it the divided states of america. those on the left and right don't just vote differently. they live differently. your report that 2/3, 63% of consistent conservatives say most of their close friends share their political views. how different is that from what we've seen in the past when you have people finding and seeking out like-munded people. >> well, we don't have -- this is the biggest political survey we've ever done. we don't have trend numbers on all of that. but clearly there has been a change here. i remind you, we're talking about the extremes here. we're talking about the consistent conservatives and consistent liberals who talk to people who have similar views. but the other thing the survey

shows is those are the people who to a large extent are driving american politics. they do the voting and primarying. they do contributions to campaigns, they contact members of congress. even though there's still a minority of the american public, they're having an outsized influence on american politics. >> joe? >> i was just going to actually talk to harold. harold, you know, when we came in in '94, things were very divided. you came in a few years later, but we still figured out a way to get compromise. and i could compromise with democrats, walk back over to the republican side and, you know, not be cast aside for it. you can do the same thing. it upsets people on both sides, but that's the way things got done. how things have changed over the past 20 years. it's crazy. >> to reinforce your point, not only that subject suggests that voters and a majority of

activists in both parties show great disdain when their member of congress depending on where he or she sits works with someone on the other side. it doesn't matter, it seems from some of the polling. i would be curious, are the results important if people want a better education policy, defense policy, health care policy, does that become subordinate is a republican works with a democrat or a democrat works with a republican in the eyes of activists? that suggests not only do we continue to face gridlock, we won't get great results if people hold politicians in that regard. >> it's a really good question, harold. one of the interesting questions we asked in this survey, how do you think president obama and the republicans in congress should reach agreement on the most important issues facing the nation. and we gave them a scale. we said zero is barack obama should get all of his way, a

hundred is the republicans should get all of their way. a majority of americans or roughly half of americans answered that question 50/50. they said, you know, come together, make a compromise, split the difference. but the problem is that those people are not the most active voters. they're not the ones who are really driving the process. and the folks on the sides are saying my side should win and don't compromise. so harold, that -- obviously that makes it -- that makes it much more difficult to get the kind of solutions you're talking about. >> and you list some of the reasons why we think this is happening which is just as important as everything. more openly partisan media, explosion of negative messaging, gerrymandering, and the list goes on and on from there. it's fascinating. we'll put it up on our website. alan murray, thanks so much. >> thanks. coming up, the rangers take

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all right. sports. stanley cup finals, rangers on the brink of elimination last

night at the garden here in new york. second period, already with the one-goal lead. new york up by two. judging by the rest of this series, the rangers know it will take a stellar third period from henrik lundqvist. king henrik as i like to call him. >> 1:20 to go. in front. and lundqvist has got it there. everyone in front of the net. and now we get a stoppage of play. >> so that's with the one-goal lead the rangers have. look at this. it gets through lundqvist and stops on the snow just short -- oh, my gosh that's incredible. >> how does that -- no. >> by that much. the new york rangers hang on for the 2-1 victory staving off

elimination. that's unbelievable. and now the series goes back to los angeles. the kings leading 3-1. they can close it out in game five on friday. baseball. yoenis cespedes was showing off his arm again last night. >> lines that one down the left field line and it's fair. pujols hits the back at first. the ball quicks away from cespedes and now rolls towards left center field. and they're going to get him again. yes! >> got to be kidding me. >> that was from the wall. a horrible defensive play. >> did you not see the one two nights ago? he threw it 300 feet from left field -- >> oh, the throw. i thought you meant the horrible defensive play. pujols, we should say, is not exactly fleet of foot. >> that may be the bigger story. >> coco crisp, same game, pulls back the home run.

but the fireworks go off anyway. they thought it was a home run, so the fireworks go off. coco crisp, though, not so fast. oakland wins 7-1. in tampa the rays snap a drought. >> they want to go upstairs. 0-2 in the air to right center field. >> nice catch. incredible. tampa bay ended a four-game skid. still terrible though. and, joe, the world cup starts today. >> lordy. >> yes, it does. >> oh, my. >> brazil and croatia gets things going. opening match at 4:00 p.m. on espn. >> willie, can i just say what's so exciting is as we hold that up brazil and croatia, what's exciting about the world cup this year and this is the first

time you can go back -- of course the world cup is the biggest event every four years. this is the first time, though, that you actually have a host nation that if they ever lose a game, it will cause the entire host country to burn to the ground. it's going to be an exciting game to watch. it just, it will collapse the entire social fabric of brazil. just like that house going into the water. >> exactly. >> okay, gentlemen. >> by the way, i'm serious, willie. i've been told by a lot of people who said don't go down to brazil unless you are absolutely certain they're going to win the world cup because if they lose and people are serious, there's going to be some massive rioting. way to go, fifa. great choice to go to brazil. >> here's some inspiration for american flans. jurgen klinsmann, quote, i think right now the world cup is not realistic.

>> yeah, america. i'm going to frame that one and put it over the door of my room. i think i can, i think i can, right next to jurgen's quote. >> perfect. by the way, everybody, don't miss willie and his dad's latest stop on their book tour. they'll be at barnes & noble today at 7:00 p.m. in west port. and there's always barnes & noble.com. you know i've really gotten to know using that barnes & noble website, it's so easy. >> it's great. >> no issues. no issues. >> no grudges. nothing. >> tomorrow also. perfect timing, willie. >> thank you. >> must read opinion pages up next on "morning joe." ♪ kid: hey dad, who was that man?

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♪ live look at the white house. kind of a hazy morning. time for the must read opinion pages. i have a quick one here for david ignatius. this is from "the wall street journal." while obama fiddles. the fall of mosul, iraq, to al qaeda terrorists this week is as big as the implications as russia's annexation of crimea, barack obama is fiddling while the world burns. iraq, pakistan, syria, kenya, with wildfires with more surely to come have burned for two years until the united states has a new president. the one we've got doesn't care.

fatigue with the world if not his leadership frees him to create a progressive domestic legacy. this friday mr. obama is giving a speech in north dakota. iraq may be transforming into a second syria or a restored caliphate. and leave his successor a nightmare. david ignatius, your thoughts. >> mika, those are harsh words from "the wall street journal," but i think there's a lot of truth to them. i found myself this week re-rereading the last foreign policy of the campaign in which president obama said al qaeda, this menace in his words had

been decimated. if there was still a problem getting franchises, they're still dangerous in iraq. and that wasn't what the country wanted to hear. certainly wasn't. these countries are just ripping apart. and i think the administration is going to have to step up and have a coherent counterterrorism policy or it's only going to get worse. so we'll just have to watch carefully. but the idea you can go off and give speeches about native american rights while this is happening and pretend that it's not dangerous, not going to work. >> okay, david. thank you. coming up, congressman steny hoyer will join the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ so i can reach ally bank 24/7 but there are no branches?

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coming up at the top of the hour, the guessing game begins on who will take over cantor's leadership position in congress. and we'll introduce you to the man behind the biggest upset in modern politics. what we know about david brat's 23-year-old campaign managerer. 23! plus insurgents take over saddam hussein's hometown. and "time" magazine has some advice to all of us. eat butter. >> willie and i can handle that.

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you into buying all of these expensive add-ons. >> the first college graduate this year -- >> actually lived -- >> democrats 42 -- >> you lived a fill yur for your life -- >> does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon. we cannot be discouraged -- >> said we are all endowed with our -- >> oh, my gosh. that is really funny. >> oh, man. >> the flirty lip bite. mika, you have to love that. >> you know what? that is -- that was perfect. that was really good comedy. because 99% of all comedy is

true when it's good. >> well, i don't understand. what are you saying, mika? >> i'm saying exactly what i'm saying and you completely understand. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i don't. >> yes, you do. >> your imitations of bill clinton are some of the best ever. >> what about the endowed? i thought the endowed line was great. willie, what about you? >> if mika combined flirty lip bite with his thumb move there to get a squinting in one eye. that's got to be over it. >> oh, stop. >> how much it costs to say i feel your pain. all right. worth every dime. worth every dime. >> i'm happy. sim i'm so glad. >> why does he drive you crazy? >> he does well with his

speeches which is good because they were dead broke. >> you're tough on my man. >> actually, i'm reading "hard choices" and i'm really enjoying it. she's formidable for sure. i can't wait to hear more from her. i can't wait to ask questions. and i think some people aren't asking questions and that's their choice. that's all i'm saying. my criticism hasn't been for hillary clinton necessarily. >> mika's first question is going to be why aren't you as great as elizabeth warren. >> no. that's not the case. i think elizabeth warren is formidable, too, but i think hillary clinton hands down could take this thing. and probably will. but i want -- i'm excited to hear more. i want to hear more. and i love what i think she could do for women. would i vote for her? yeah. >> we all know the answer to that question.

>> it is the top of the hour and this is an inappropriate time for this conversation. but that's what makes us "morning joe." joining us now former mccain senior campaign strategist and msnbc political analyst steve schmidt. and in washington "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. hi. >> good morning. >> good to have you all on board this hour. the house majority leader faced the press in the wake of his double digit loss to little known dave brat. the day at times was emotional. house speaker john boehner fought back tears during a meeting with the caucus. the postmortem on what went wrong played out all day long with many in virginia saying cantor had become a washington insider who simply forgot his roots and virginia values. a claim cantor disputes. >> you know, i was in my district every week.

so, you know, there's a balance between holding a leadership position and serving constituents at home. but never was there a day did i not put the constituents of the seventh district of virginia first and i will continue to do so. >> why shouldn't somebody be running scared at this point after an unprecedented loss of a majority leader? >> as you rightly suggest, all politics are local. and there was obviously a lot of attention that was cast on our race. but again, i think that our members are in good position in their districts. >> now the rush is on to find his replacement atop the short list whip kevin mccarthy who got cantor's blessing according to "the washington post" he's using a paper scoring system dating back to the '90s. he looking to get out ahead of others like jeb hensarling.

>> nobody knows how it will shake out until the votes are cast. it's one of the least transparent elections going. time to go to steve schmidt. tea partiers are trying to claim victory. everybody's out there of course trying to explain what happened. the fact is nobody saw this coming. i was looking at tweets going back and forthright now. not only did the establishment mississip miss this, they've been going around trying to beat establishment republicans that shift into this race. this was all about this guy working on the ground hard. having a positive message. and it seems, you tell me whether i'm wrong. beating a guy that was terribly out of touch with his own district and his voters. >> this is a manifestation of

how deeply unpopular congress is, american institutions, republicans talk about big labor, big media, big government. the candidate in this race also talked about the big banks, for example. he tapped into that energy that is going to be a defining aspect of the 2016 race. but for sure what makes this possible is you have a 13% turnout election. a majority is 6.5% of the registered voters. in a low turnout primary election, you have the ability of the talk radio hosts like they did to rail against cantor, to rally the base. but for every member of congress in that meeting yesterday, what they understand is that there's not one of them who's not vulnerable to going down in a primary where you have 13% turnout. money won't protect you. >> yeah. but, steve, let me ask you this. isn't this a road map for some republicans running if they run

against hillary clinton? a woman who's been associated closely with wall street and goldman sachs? the way to win is not to just run against big government. you should run against big government if you're a republican, but also run against big business. talk about breaking up the big banks. talk about crony capitalism. talk about the realities a small business owner never gets the breaks that the biggest corporations in the world get. and it isn't geared towards helping working class americas get out of the middle class. it's all about helping the rich of the rich. >> i think for sure there's a huge lane for a republican candidate in this '16 election who has that message. what's extraordinary is we've arrived at a moment in time where the chamber of commerce has become an epitet.

you have the chamber of commerce, associated with main street business so long. these are all disparagements now to prove that, you know, the opponent is, you know, says he's part of the power establishment in the country. by the way, you see this phenomena play out in the uk and france and the netherlands. really across the whole of the western democracies. >> jeremy peters, you always run the ris -- risk of overstating this. do you see something bigger at play here, or is this just about a low turnout election in one district in virginia? >> i heard apocalyptic used. >> that was the third one. >> that's a good word. >> it's a bit hyperbolic, i would say. steve make ags poins a point.

you had 65,000 people turn out. do those dynamics translate to other states? when you're talking about anti-incumbency, i think that may be true. if you look at places like kansas, tennessee, i don't know that it translates there. what you had was such a unique set of circumstances in the cantor race. you know, people overlook the fact that richmond has one of the best organized tea parties in the country. and that really helped dave brat. so there's that. there's also this very unique alignment of powerful media figures from laura ingraham, mark levin. all of whom have deep roots in virginia politics. then you have eric cantor too. and the issue with eric cantor as a flawed candidate in this instance is it wasn't just that he didn't spend time back at

home, there was a deep antipathy towards him. tea party voters just did not like him. and that's not really something they can overcome politically. with his security entourage and it rubbed voters there the wrong way. so i think this is a very specific example of an selection. and i would not overstate these lessons elsewhere. >> go ahead, joe. >> mika, you mentioned it yesterday. i think we should say it. we don't judge him one way or the other and we don't know. perhaps he got death threats. but he showed up on our set. didn't he show up with a security entourage larger than most governors? >> he did have an entourage. >> he had like three security guys, i think. we were talking about this off set yesterday and weren't going to say it, but jeremy brought it up. and we look eed at him when he

came in and i like eric a lot, but saw the security people there and the sort of sense of importance. and it was fine with us. we didn't even say anything at the time. but if you're going around your district that way -- >> i think you nailed it. personality matters. we talk about optics and being able to connect. and there's some evolving he needs to do. i'm not saying he doesn't have a future ahead of him, but i agree with what you said on a non-ideological, non-partisan level. i noticed exactly what you noted when he walked into the studio. >> his polling apparently that some of the press reports show him ahead by 25, 35 points. in a week period, how do you go from being up 35 points to

losing by 12? >> a couple of things happened. >> i have some thoughts, but i'm curious to know what your thinking is on this. and steve's. >> so -- and steve can certainly explain this more. but i used to always tell people that we're working on our campaign. 50% of the people that are going to vote, about a third of them are going to vote in the republican primary if you're lucky. maybe only 25% of the 50% are going to vote. if it's a special election, probably only 10, 11, 12% of those 50% are going to vote. and when you have an election in june, the numbers are horrific. this election were held in september after kids were back in school. you would have a higher turnout. and eric cantor would have won. locusts descending eating flesh off of the establishment in

washington, d.c. those folks all won when back in school. and this is more like a special election because it was a june election. and the numbers were wrong. if the numbers are up to normal levels, we would have been talking about the world cup this morning. >> he would have won by a lot. this is the fundamental problem. it's only as accurate as your aublt to gauge who's actually going to vote in the election. in fact, he was never up in reality 34% because, in fact, the people that they were serving were not actual voters in the primary. when you look at the people who were going to vote for sure, sometimes that is a model that doesn't work for you. so you skew and weight the numbers the way you want it to be opposed to what it is. >> katty kay, it still feels like while we all have sort of very logical reasons why this happened, when you look at the

numbers and what exactly went down in this race, it's still hard to explain. it's baffling. >> it must be a combination of factors. the part that cantor wasn't there in his district. that he was not particularly liked. lindsey graham seems to be much more liked in his district. and the tapping into the immigration issue by a right wing talk radio. it raises the question of what the party now leaves from whomever wins in the election. what's the challenge, the main priority for whoever is the next majority leader? and which of the three people that seem to be running do you think, steve, would be best suited to bringing somehow the republican party together? do we now have to have a situation where the upstarts in the party need to get a leadership position so that the party can show that it has listened to what happened in the seventh district? >> look, i just think that when you look at the candidates that are in the race for majority leader, you have to look at

kevin mccarthy as the front runner for it. but it's not the job of the majority leader necessarily to advance the policy of communications agenda of the republican party. but what we see through this, again, is a deeply divided republican party that as we move into this next presidential election cycle, this quote, unquote, civil war inside the republican party, it hasn't even begun yet. and it's going to play out in a very big way over the next few years. >> let's get to another big story. a sunni militant group is toppling cities in iraq and now fighters are vowing to march all the way to the capital. they want to establish an islamic state that spans across iraqi and syria. as the map shows, they already control a huge portion of both countries. we want to bring in foreign correspondent richard engel who's live in erbil, iraq. give us the latest. >> reporter: well, this militant

group some describe it as more aggressive than al qaeda, is continuing its offensive. it is not just threatening to march on baghdad. it is heading in that direction. some of its militants are just about a hundred miles to the north of baghdad. and the iraqi government so far has been unable to stop it. the prime minister maliki now calling for the united states to intervene militarily providing drones, intelligence, and aircraft, whatever it takes to stop this assault. the iraqi government is losing control of large parts of northern and central iraq. some iraqi security forces are fighting, but most appear to be stripping off their uniforms in the streets, abandoning vehicles and weapons. they're retreating from islamic extremists, an offshoot of al qaeda which took over iraq's second largest city mosul and joer night advanced much further occupying large parts of tikrit.

civilians are fleeing the area. officials say up to 500,000 displaced already. the u.s. fought a nearly decade-long war costing thousands of american lives and a trillion dollars for this not to happen. many of the radicals are the same insurgents u.s. troops battled for years. they're now aligned with militants from syria creating a single front. their leader was once held by american forces. some say he's the real heir to osama bin laden. the u.s. has a $10 million bounty for him. why is this happening? sunnis ruled iraq for 13 centuries until the u.s. invasion toppled saddam hussein ushering in a shiite regime. the sunnis want their country back. they hate the shiite government which has excluded them from power and there are no u.s. troops around anymore to stop them.

it could be that we are seeing the start of a civil war. the government maliki has tried to declare a state of emergency. so far he's been unsuccessful. he is now moving army divisions from southern iraq to try and reinforce the capital. this is a very serious situation. and it would be wrong to just say that this is a problem for iraq and syria and to dismiss it. these militants, tens of thousands of them are very anti-american. and they don't see this fight as just being limited to this region. many of them also want to carry out attacks in europe and in the united states. this is not just a problem for the united states. it's for everybody. >> good morning. harold ford. i heard you talk about the sunni/shiite divide as really being the fundamental core of the challenge here. how can american -- what can america do to help either resolve this which i don't think we can or should we look to more of a containment policy.

what can be done in your mind in light of your thinking and it's clear it's playing out right now to help bring some sense of stability here. >> well, i think there are some immediate things that need to happen and then there are the larger strategic questions. immediately unless some sort of action is taken, this militant group which nobody wants to see armed, it must be contained quite quickly. it is taking weapons, it is robbing banks. they have been able to come across millions of dollars in the last several days. they've been seizing weapons that the u.s. troops left behind, left for the iraqi security forces. nobody wants this group to have these kind of weapons. the government, maliki, not the greatest government in the world. unpopular. clearly by many people in this country is calling on the united states to help. i think the united states is considering those calls quite

seriously. because they don't want to see isis to take over. then the larger question is how do you solve this problem. this is not the united states' problem. this is a sunni/shiite problem that has been acute and exacerbated since the u.s. invasion. >> thank you very much. real quick to joe before we close out this block, is this not the united states' problem? >> this is the world's problem. the unrest that's going to spread across the middle east, the crisis that's already spilling outside of syria when you look at the refugees that are destabilizing governments across the region. this is not america's problem. this is the region's problem. this is the world's problem. and the most frightening thing about what's happened over the past two days, you had david ignatius talking to former commanders who know this country very well, absolutely shocked by the speed the insurgents are streaking across the country.

david rothkoff just spoke to an adviser equally stunned this was going on. i talked to one of the top bush administration officials yesterday, equally stunned. anybody that knows anything about this country that it spent time fretting over iraq over the past decade, simply cannot believe how quickly it is collapsing across the north. we are about to enter an age of instability and disorder of which we are ill prepared. this is -- we could be entering some frightening times. there are no good answers. there are no easy answers. and the white house is going to have to figure out what to do. still ahead, fat is the enemy of our hiealth, right? apparently not. why scientists were wrong.

also ahead, college tuition jumping 1,000% since the late 1970s. will college graduates ever be able to pay off their loans? thanks to the republicans, no. congressman steny hoyer will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪

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♪ the prisoner exchange for bowe bergdahl came under more scrutiny yesterday as chuck hagel testified on capitol hill. the trade to bring bergdahl home is also drawing mixed reaction from the average american. >> the administration's authorized release of five taliban soldiers in exchange for sergeant bowe bergdahl has ignited a fierce debate here at home and it's one that seems to have caught the obama white house off guard. the controversy is raising three major issues. first the broad question.

was the trade the right or wrong thing to do? according to a recent usa today pew research poll, more americans say it was the wrong thing. those views are echoed by the cbs news poll with 45% against the deal and only 37% approving. the second issue involves an army code that has been repeated by the white house. >> the united states does not leave our men and women in uniform behind. >> regardless of the circumstances, whatever those circumstances may turn out to be, we still get an american soldier back if he's held in captivity. period. >> it has been alleged by bergdahl's former soldiers he voluntarily left the base. e the cbs poll show the majority of americans believe the u.s. paid too high a price to get bergdahl released. and lastly, should the president have consulted with congress

before acting? 72% of americans including a majority of republicans and democrats alike believe the president should have notified congress in advance. the issues raised by the prisoner swap were passionate but are they partisan? and it begs the bigger question, should they be? one thing is certain, time will tell. back to you. coming up, fat has been public enemy number one for decades. so why is "time" magazine telling us to eat butter? >> butter by the bowl full. >> we'll find out. ♪ she's still the one for you.

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♪ and i think the whole dynamic has changed. what i've always said all along is people in washington really don't know the pundits and the rest what's going on in the districts. you have to be on the ground and in your district to know. >> past minority leader nancy pelosi on what eric cantor's loss means for the midterm elections. let's bring in congressman steny hoyer of maryland. also with us, president and ceo of politico and capital new york, jim vandehei.

good to have you both. steny, i know a lot of democrats were celebrating when this shocking news went down the night before last, but you never know what you're going to get in these situations. how do you think the replacement for cantor and this whole thing will play out as we move forward? >> we'll see. i think what the election showed is what we've been saying all along is that the republican party is a deeply divided party at this time with great differences internally which are making it very difficult for them to lead in a positive way. we'll see who replaces mr. cantor now that he's stepped down. and there will be some indication of whether they're going to stay far right or go even further right. it's going to show as well whether or not we will be able to be functional and move forward on important agendas that the overwhelming amount support. >> but steny, it's always great to see you, buddy. wasn't this really more, though,

about a congressman who was out of touch with his district than an internal war inside the gop which i've been talking about in 2009, 2010, 2011. that's been resolved for the most part if you look around the country. you've got this race and thad cochran's race, but other than that, main street republicans won. so it's not as divided today, is it, than it was two years ago? >> we'll see, joe. we'll have a election for majority leader. we'll see what that holds. but when you say look at the texas results and dewhurst. i still think that the party is deeply divided between what we perceived to be its very conservative wing and far right and more radical wing. and i think the tea party is going to be energized by this election. i think they're going to feel that they had better chances all over the country. we'll see what happens in mississippi. so i think there's still -- the

question is out, joe, as to whether or not they clearly for political reasons believe that their division has been hurting themselves electorally. and they've been trying to get back together. we'll see if they can do it. i doubt it. >> katty kay. >> i want to pick up on what you were saying about policies. everyone is talking about the fact that this is clearly a defeat for eric cantor and for the establishment bit of the republican party. but if you actually look at what policies might have passed if eric cantor had stayed in his position, are there any policies that you think now won't get through, because let's be honest, nothing was going to happen anyway for the next two years and immigration reform was not going to go anywhere. >> i don't know about the next two years, katty. i think the election will tell us whether or not we'll be able to move forward on issues that the american people overwhelmingly support. comprehensive immigration reform, over 70%.

"the wall street journal" wrote an editorial this morning that indicates that republicans believe that comprehensive immigration reform ought to move forward. and the export/import bank. we passed that with over 300 votes the last time we authorized it a couple of years ago. we need to get that done. minimum wage supported overwhelmingly by the american people. there are so many issues we could address. highway authorization needs to be redone. there are so many important issues the american people believe that congress ought to get done. we'll see whether or not the republican majority in the house of representatives will respond and what clearly the majority of the american people think ought to be happening in the congress or whether we'll continue the gridlock which i assert is a result of the republican gridlock and inability to overcome its internal divisions so they can move forward on the agenda of the american people. >> i want to bring in -- >> voting rights act -- let me

bring in -- >> let's bring in willie, if we can. we have a lot of people around the table. >> i wanted to say quickly i said you have a very significant birthday coming up this weekend. so happy early birthday to you. >> nice. >> it says here you've got ice cream, cake, and a deejay at your party. do you know who the deejay is? scribble or avici? >> i don't know who, but this is the 33rd year i've had this birthday party as a member of congress. we have about 1300 people. so it'll be a big shin dig tomorrow night. >> that's awesome. well, happy birthday. jim, let me go to you. do you think this result two nights ago now in eric cantor losing his seat will feel as important and significant even a week from now or a month from now? or is this just the shock now in the first 36 hours. will the implications be as far reaching as some are suggesting? >> first up, it's a great story.

politics has been boring for the last six months. i think it's good that something happened at all in washington. i think one of the stories that's not getting enough play right now is keep an eye on that majority leader race. i do not think it's a given that kevin mccarthy wins that slot. if you are a conservative and you're looking at jeb hensarling and you're looking at perhaps as soon as next year becoming speaker of the house, the right could galvanize and topple in leadership. there's going to be a lot of pressure from talk radio, tea party, "wall street journal," from others not just to go with the traditional establishment type. if that happens, we'll be talking about this story for years to come. because the only thing protecting the establishment in the house of representatives right now is the upper echelon of the leadership. all of the energy is elsewhere, which is why this city's getting more polarized, not less polarized. more dysfunctional.

>> jim vandehei, thanks very much. congressman hoyer, thank you as well. up next, the answer to the question we're all waiting for. why "time" magazine is telling us fat is good for our health. maybe radhika jones, i don't know, do you have pregnancy brain? all right. we'll find out. this is fascinating new research actually. we'll be right back. ♪

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and we started talking about this last week. more and more studies are showing that we have taken the fat out of our diets and we've replaced it with a bunch of crap that's called low calorie and what it's done is it's sugar, it burns up faster, it leads to type 2 diabetes. i mean, you look at what's happened over the past 20, 30 years since we been saying take fat out of the diet and replace it with highly refined garbage. and what happens? well, you have an obesity epidemic. >> exactly. and some of my own personal food problems and obsessions, radhika, had to do with trying to take all the fat out of my diet or all the carbs out of my diet. all of these extreme behaviors. and i think america is overreacting. >> you weren't alone in doing that. a lot of this goes back to work done in the '50s and '60s where researchers equated fat with heart disease. >> isn't it? >> fat is killing us and we need

to change our diets. >> isn't it? >> it turns out it's not as simple as that. and as joe says, having turned so violently away from fats both saturated and unsaturated in the last years, hasn't helped us with obesity. and cardiovascular disease is up. >> but -- so isn't that a part of it? >> it's -- what we found in sympathizing all of this new research is that fat can basically have neutral effect on your health. and in fact, some of the divisions that we've made in the past 20 or 30 years between so-called good cholesterol and bad cholesterol, saturated fat is a wash. it can make your protective good cholesterol go up but also the bad. >> the term you're using when we talk about this, you're calling it a nutrient. most of us would not call this a

nutrient. we are conditioned to believe it's something else. and if we get it, it's a gift or a cheat. >> right. but the fact is we all -- no matter -- you know, we're so obsessed with calorie counts and dieting and low fat this and low fat that. of course we need calories to survive. and it turns out not all calories are created equal. if you're getting all of your calories from refined sugars and carbohydrates and all of these things we substituted for when we lost the taste that comes with fat, you're less full, driven to eat more. that's why americans overall consume more calories. >> who's more wrong if we're at a table and he's putting butter on his bread and i'm dipping mine lightly in olive oil instead of butter? >> i'd hate to see you two compete. >> i just want to know. >> let me actually answer that really quickly. >> please. >> i've got a son that's a type

1 diabetic, you counted the carbs but they always say make sure you have meat or protein that will hold onto those carbs and make them burn. the correct answer would be me with the butter. because the butter would make the carbs burn faster. but that really is the problem, isn't it? we're putting all of these carbs into our body, they're burning off quickly. whereas if it's red meat or chicken or some other protein will actually hold them in their longer and we won't be eating every five, ten minutes. >> that's right. and the carbs are taking up space we could use to eat vegetables which americans don't eat enough of. all of these things. i think ultimately the best diet is a diet in moderation. and we're not saying go home and eat a whole stick of butter or an entire wheel of cheese. but the truth is that the biggest danger is processed

foods. that's where we run into trouble. >> this is a great study and it's going to be great until the next study comes out disproving it. >> correct. >> no. no. in moderation. joe makes sense d. did you hear that? he makes sense. >> sugar is our foe until it's not. >> and the new issue of "time" is out now. radhika jones, thank you so much. up next, there appears to be no help in sight in student loan debt. a new documentary reveals how bad it is for students. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ spokesperson: the volkswagen passat is heads above the competition, but we're not in the business of naming names. the fact is, it comes standard with an engine that's been called the benchmark of its class. really, guys, i thought... it also has more rear legroom than other midsize sedans. and the volkswagen passat has a lower starting price than... much better.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." let me say right at the top of the segment, happy 90th president to president george bush. in kennebunkport. a great man. a great leader. i feel blessed as an american as a service from world war ii forward. we will be talking about that more in the next hour. first, let's talk about a bill had a would fundamentally change how americans are paying off their college loans. how it has died in congress. the proposal by senator warren failed to gain basis point traction. would have allowed people with practical and private loans that are crushing them right now

economically. they will refinance the loans at lower rates. it makes sense. right? over the last eight years, student debt has skyrocketed to about $1.2 trillion and debt holders' burden has gone up 70%. with us now on set to talk about this, columbia university professor and andrew rossi. the filmmaker behind the new documentary "ivory tower." all about the rising cost of college. it has gotten outrageous. how expensive it is for middle-class americans and working-class americans to send their kids to school. >> it really is expensive. as these colleges look at how they can become profit centers, business models, they kind of take the lead from the other ones. andrew, we have andy on the left and andrew on the right here. andrew, why did you want to take a look at this, the ivory tower? obviously the american dream is for -- all of us, you know, our kids to grow up and send them off to a power-year institution.

we know college graduates can earn better throughout a lifetime. what was it that attracted you to make this film? absolutely. we have seen in ivory tower college is still that engine of social mobility. however, the price has increased in such an alarming way that it is creating other sort of complications to the value of college. 1120% since 1978, the cost of tuition increased. and when you factor in student loan debt, sort of the calculus about whether college is still worth it, it starts to change with the film exploration is it still worth it? is encouraging our kids go to a four-year institution and get the piece of paper that says, okay, you are smart enough to join a -- a work force, maybe earn six figures. is it still worth it? >> well, we do see in the film that those with the college degree make on average $1 million more than hose with only a high school diploma. we also see that not everybody completes. in fact, in public universities,

68% of students fail to graduate in four years. so for hose who weren't able to finish, they are still saddled with debt and don't actually have the degree. >> the critics of people who -- critics of lawmakers that want wapt to make it's easier go back to college loans and the colleges themselves are hiking tuitions and will take all the money and won't do anything to bring down the cost of education. what are some reasonable ways to force colleges to -- compel colleges to make it cheaper for students to go to school? >> well, i think one -- key development would be to stop some of the spending that does not really have an impact on the academic course of study. >> like football stadiums? are we talking about other things? >> i think we are talking about luxury dormitories. some n some cases research laboratories that are not necessary and being built to arack rock star professors that accrued to the prestige of the institution and help to bring students with their student loan dollars bunt aren't really having an impact. >> let's get to dane on this.

you are at columbia university. ivy league school. when you hear about the information we are putting together as a society, do you agree with the assessment andrew put together? that there is a better way to do this? >> first of all, i think that the answer to the question whether the college is still important for individuals and for our country is an empattic yes. and not just in economic terms. andrew is right. that the evidence is strong and that people go to college do better economically. but we also want to be a society where we have an educated citizenry. that's been the premise of our democracy. college is very important in those terms. in terms of the cost or the price problem, a place like mine has a very shocking sticker price. >> sure. >> the reality is that about half of our students attend with very significant financial aid. some of them pay virtually nothing. the sticker price can be misleading. we want to remember, i think, that one of the most important drivers of this rising cost is

public disinvestment from public institutions. tuition at public institutions has been going up faster than privates and it is the case growth of the for-profit so-called university sector accounts for a very large part of this student loan problem. >> it is a as if mating look. the fill silver medal called "ivory tower." it is coming out this month in slick cities, including new york and los angeles. thank you so much. coming up at the top of the hour, iraq falls into chaos as an army of extremists marches towards baghdad. how is president obama going to respond? there are major moves within the republican party to replace eric cantor as house majority leader. who has the inside track on that one? a perfect example of why you should not build a house on a cliff. look at that.

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♪ the voters are simply angry. >> people don't like the status quo. >> the big message for washington is nothing is going to get passed in any form of legislation. >> i am gragsz reform is now dead in congress. >> it is dead. >> it is going to be very dangerous now for a republican to talk to democrats. >> oh, no! congress' golden age of

cooperation -- ♪ >> it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast and 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. we have to start in iraq. 11 years after american troops arrived in baghdad, the city is facing the let of a new invasion. this time from the same insurgents the u.s. spent nearly a decade fighting. sunni militant group toppling major cities in northern iraq with stunning speed and now fighters are vowing to march all the way to the capital. their goal is to establish an islamic state that spans across iraq and syria. as the map shows they already control huge portions of both countries. the group used to be known as al qaeda in iraq but was kicked out of the main terror organization for being too vicious. now fighters have teamed up with other factions and to battle the

governments of iraq and syria as well as other rebels. as nbc's richard engel reports the conflict is erupting along the borders. >> sunnis ruled iraq for 13 centuries until the u.s. invasion toppled saddam hue sign. the sunnis want their country back. they hate the shiite government which has excluded them from power. and there are no u.s. troops around anymore to stop them. >> the u.s. is weighing options to help the iraqi government whose soldiers largely pled the approaching fighters allowing their american-made weapons to fall into enemy hands. so far the obama administration has denied requests from baghdad to target extremists with drone strikes. so let's bring columnist for "the washington post," the author of the new novel "the director," an expert on all of these issues.

richard engel posed the first question, why is this happening? why is this happening and what's it tell us about every other engagement we have going on right now in the area? >> it is happening with what seems stunning speed but in truth, for the last six months, this has been gathering force in the sunni areas of western iraq. it is happening because prime minister al maliki is seen by the sunni iraqis as a sectarian divisive leader, not as the leader of all of iraq. iraq -- we left a very fragile truce, if you will, between sunni and shiite and that has been -- has been breaking apart. i think what has shocked former u.s. commanders is that they looked at the news the last few days is how quickly the iraqi army has crumbled in mosul, the jewel of northern iraq, a city renowned for learning and it is at -- at universities.

the army fled leaving him its tanks and its equipment, pled south and in a kind of panic retreat. i'm told one reason the iraqi army performed so badly, maliki and suspicion of commanders fired my sunni in the top leadership position, has replaced them with his own people, who are loyal to him and politically. somebody likened it to me to stalin and having an army that was almost leaderless. the question is where did k the iraqi army now form a line of defense. i'm told that they are beginning to form it just north of baghdad which is important because it says that in effect maliki has given up the territory north of the so-called taji line. finally, the question i hear policymakers asking today is is it possible for maliki to put this country back together?

he's so suspect among other ethnic groups in iraq, can he be the person that the u.s. works with to restore a working iraq and there is much more skepticism today than there was a week ago? >> you know, david, it sounds like we are still paying for the decisions bremlin made a decade ago. to all of the sunnis out of power and sounds as if maliki is doing it again. this is a country that cannot be held together without buying from the sunnis. >> it can't be held together without buying from the sunnis. and from every ethnic group. will is only one way iraq survives whole and that people feel that they are part after country that accepts them. certainly the mistakes we made during the occupation and in which we really were seeking to enfranchise the shiite majority under a shiite prime minister and the kurdish north, which has its quasi-autonomous federation forget being the sunnis.

i can remember people working for bremer saying to me smugly in that period, we going to have an 80% solution, david. meaning the 20% the sunnis that are not with us don't matter. we will take the 80%. that's not what's come back to haunt us. >> let me read a quick line from dexter filkin's piece he wrote overnight. he writes the rapid advance of al qaeda inspired milt tapts across the heart land of northern and western iraq has been stunning and relentless and utterly predictable. here is the forecast. the bad news is just beginning. what are we watching here? where does it go from here? >> i spoke to one congressman in iraq and afghanistan last night and i asked him whether what we are seeing in iraq now is a prelude what we might see in afghanistan a few years down the road. he said you have to at least consider the possibility that once nato forces, morning forces leave afghanistan, we leave a

complicated country with did you visions within the population, where there are a lot of weapons and the possibility of a breakdown of security like this. what you have in iraq as well, of course, what's happened in syria. you now have this porous boarder and militants going backwards and forwards and an awful lot of weapons and as those iraqiy military personnel have been abandoning their posts over the last three days they have been leafing behind their weapons which have been picked up by militant forces. they are even more well armed now and you have to look at baghdad. they are now 70 kilometers from the capital of iraq. you wonder how far they are going on get. >> on to politics and fallout surrounding the news of eric cantor. he will exit one of the most powerful offices in the land by the end of july. the house majority leader paced the press in the wake of the double-digit loss to unknown poorly funded tea party candidate dave brat who had little outside support.

the day at times was emotional. some members of congress john boehner fought back tears. that's not so surprising. he is a crier. >> it is a wednesday. >> during a meeting with the caucus the postmortem on what went wrong played out all day long with many in virginia saying that cantor had become a washington insider who simply forgot his roots and virginia values. a claim cantor disputes. >> you know, i was in my district every week. so i -- you know, will's -- a balance between holding a leadership position and serving constituents at home but never was there a day did i not put the constituents of the seventh district of virginia first and i will continue to do so. >> why shouldn't somebody be running scared at this point after -- an unprecedented loss by a majority leader? >> you know, again, i think that as you rightly suggest, all politics are local and there was obviously a lot of attention that was cast on our race but, again, i think that our members are in good position in the

districts. >> i don't really hear an -- maybe he doesn't know, joe, what happened. but -- he doesn't seem to explain it. >> you know, a lot of us -- lot of people yesterday tried to cast a wide net on this defeat. if you look at what's happened over the past year, tea party candidates have lost in race after race after race after race. it leads only -- leaves only one conclusion. this is more about eric cantor than it is about anything else. you can say sam stein, he was disconnected -- not disconnected from the values of his district and that he went home an awful lot but -- i would suggest any political candidate that spends more money at washington, d.c., steakhouses than his opponent snends an entire campaign would probably need the definition of disconnected in most districts

across america. he was disconnected. he had become a creature of washington, d.c. also, sam, one other thing nobody else brought up yesterday, if you are a small government conservative like me and you start to get irritated at this guy because he's not connected at home, and he is trying to get rid of conservative party leaders across the state which he was trying to do, and then look at his voeding record through the years, voted for the medicare drug benefit plan that costs $7 trillion and didn't pay for a dime of it, he voted to bail out the big banks on wall street that caused this country to crash so he voted for the bailout, and then he insulted your intelligence by trying to strike a deal on immigration reform up in washington but when he came home, he would run commercials suggesting his opponent was for amnesty and at that point you just throw up your hands and say, how stupid does eric cantor think we are? >> first of all, it is great

steak. let's take steak out of this. i agree with all of those points. we were sort of tallying it up. eric cantor had about four, five republican rebounds in the past four, five years. when you do that so frequently, you begin to lose your sense of who you are as a politician. i think that people have a lot of difficulty to find who -- define who eric cantor was. i think he became more of a schemer than conservative. people in the district generally began to think he had been out of touch and i think the immigration stuff, you know, i don't think that he was a support -- support of the immigration act. when he went back and said, you know, all this stuff i have been saying in washington, d.c., that's not -- you are reading it wrong. i think people look at him and thought he was a schemer. >> just shocking. now the rush is on to find his replacement. a top the short list, kevin mccarthy when got cantor's

blessing. i don't know if that's a good thing. mccarthy is using a paper scoring system dating back to leadership races from the '90s. she looking to get out ahead of others li others. you know these guys. what do you think? >> i think that -- kevin mccarthy may be -- maybe he is in a good position because of where he has been. he is associated with cantor. john boehner. >> he has that -- >> well, i -- i was just going to say organizationally the way people think inside of that building, that may seem like an advantage. i really believe at the end of the day, you are going to look at people like pete sessions who helped mastermind the 2010 landslide victory in rcc and a guy i know, a good friend of

mine. both of these guys seem to fit the mood of congress much better right now than kevin mccarthy does. i think this could be, you know, a wide-open race. >> okay. let me get to one other big story here. the prisoner exchange for bowe bergdahl came under more scrutiny yesterday as defense secretary chuck hail i will testified on capitol hill. hagel admitted the administration had to make a tough call and perhaps could have handled it better but that didn't stop him from facing some really tough questions. >> you are trying to tell me that he's being held in germany because of his -- >> i hope you are not implying anything other than that the question -- >> i'm going to give you an answer. >> i don't like the implication. >> answer it. >> he is being held there because our medical professionals don't believe he's ready until -- until they believe he is ready to take the next step of rehabilitation. >> have you ever seen a traumatically injured service

member brought to the united states immediately upon being stabilized at landstuhl? >> weigh do it all the time in is not just about a physical situation, congressman. this guy was held for almost five years in god knows what kind of conditions. >> all right. joe, first of all, hagel, wow. i will finish the script in a second. but he definitely was extremely defensive and almost upset at the line of questioning. was the questioning pair, fair, at this point? >> yes, it was. it was so fair. what jeff miller was asking the same thing that you were asking when the -- the day this came out. saying why did they give this -- when i was a reporter in connecticut, you would go there, the hospital would give you all of this information and they have cornered him off. they are keeping him away from everybody. they are keeping him over there instead of bringing him back to the united states. this entire thing is like transparency. you said it yourself.

we are getting more information on this guy from the taliban than we are from the united states government. yes. following up on what you said -- >> no, i understand what i said. >> jeff miller. because of what you said, mika. i think you got it 100% right, as always. >> let me respond and i will try to stand by what i said but i think they have gotten themselves into a real pickle here because of how poorly this was handled from the get-go. it was rolled out so poorly and the taliban video was provided to us before the united states government could give us enough information and now i think we have an overall security situation surrounding this man, his family, and everything surrounding the story because it was rolled out so poorly. i'm not going on judge this guy at this point being kept away from people and perhaps even mystery surrounding situation because i think that the response has been totally misplayed and mishandled,

misunderstood by our white house. >> can i just say -- i mean, i -- i would love more information. i would love to, you know -- have the chance to see -- but, you know, the lack of empathy at any level on that question for this situation. listen, he could be a deserter. he could be sympathetic to the taliban. lit come out. it will come out in due time. the fact of the matter is he was in captivity for five years. there has been an emotional toll on him. can we give him like a week to just recuperate without casting him in nefarious light? >> i think he needs time to recuperate and we immediate to make sure he stays safe. yes, joe. >> we are not sitting here questioning whether he has a right to rest quietly for as long as he, a right to rest quietly. the questions that are being raised have to do with the white house. the a white house who jay rockefeller, democrat of the intel committee, said lied to them. a white house that dianne feinstein said lied to them.

yesterday miklaszewski from the pentagon said senior foreign officials said the white house is lying when they say that he's physically -- that he was physically in danger. we have heard -- we have heard top officials, not me, not other republicans, we heard top officials time and time again around the washington, d.c., democrats say that this white house is not being honest with the american people over this situation. does it not beg the question why is the white house treating this situation differently than they treat people that have grievous injuries who are fighting for their very lives who were brought back to america in shorter amounts of time? >> fair question. >> that's what democrats want to know. i think that's what americans want to know and some republicans want to know, too. >> still ahead -- we will reveal

"elle" magazine's tech list. bill karins with a check of the forecast. a lot of people getting tired of the weather pattern. would like nice sunshine to return. very humid, a lot of clouds and rain across the country. it continues this morning. we are looking at some rain showers spreading now through pennsylvania all the way of northern new england and even the lone thunderstorm there exiting the richmond area to try to slide up here near d.c. so far the airports are doing okay. we have one-hour delays in philadelphia with drizzle and showers and a temperature of 65. we can see more airport delays later. es especially p we get thunderstorms out of this. you can see the forecast today calls for that from d.c. to pittsburgh. chance of storms through new york city. especially later on tonight. here is that one thunderstorm cell heading northward that is going to cross over looks like heading over the potomac and in

towards the west-east side of the d.c. area in about an hour from now. if you are doing any traveling, driving in that location. other areas of concern, late today, from dallas to wichita falls, shreveport, little rock, jackson, mississippi, austin, you will have a chance of seeing strong, dangerous storms later this afternoon. the west coast, pretty dry with the exception of the puget sound. chances of rain for you. kennebunkport, maine, happy birthday to the former president who is hoping to parachute today. it will be interesting to see if they do the jump or not. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis

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let us take a look at the morning papers. we will have with the "oregonian." the police released the name of the gunman as jarrett michael paget. they say he arrived at reynolds high school with an assault rifle hidden in a guitar case and the shooter gunned down 14-year-old emelio hoffman in the locker room. so far will is no known link between the would boys and it appears hoffman was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. the shooter, again, 15 years old. >> from our parade of stars, "star ledger," not guilty plea for the driver charged in connection with the crash that injured tracy morgan. kevin roper has been free on bail since the accident. he is charged with vehicular homicide and assault by auto. the prosecution says roper had been awake for 24 consecutive hours at least at the time of the incident. comedian jimmy mcnair was killed

and two others will were left in critical condition following that crash. "the washington post," a buildup with fundamentally change how americans pay off their college loans has died in congress. senator elizabeth warren's proposal failed to gain bipartisan traction and it would have allowed people with practical and private loans to refinance at lower rates. the republican leader said the plan was little more than an election year ploy and aimed at helping democrats keep the senate. "the new york times," four strippers and a club manager are accused of drugging men and racking up more than $200,000 in credit card charges. >> no. >> officials say the victims were given spiked drinks and taken to the club's scores where their cards were charged illegally. the suspects are charged with grand larceny, assault and forgery. >> why are we just getting to that story now? >> we will spare you the cover. >> that is really -- okay. "the dallas morning news,"

4,000-square foot home in texas is in danger of falling 75 feet into a lake. the owners evacuated the home about two weeks ago when the cliff -- >> whoa. >> -- beneath it began collapsing. officials condemned the property and are warning people to stay away. the home was worth more than $700,000. >> good god. >> horrible. >> i just wouldn't stay there one more night. >> willie, you said good call. what do you think the engineers saw and city manager saw when they came out and inspected that? to the -- you know -- naked eye, looking at that thinking i may get another decade out of this. >> sometimes you have to make tough choices. they stepped in and said -- despite what you see, up shun go in that house. >> what possessed them to go back in that particular spot? >> it is probably the little of knowing that it could fall into the lake at any minute. >> you are always on edge. >> some people like to live on the edge.

willie. >> "the toronto globe and mail." the story of the toronto mayor rob ford is -- heading to the stage? rob ford the musical. the birth of a ford nation will debut at toronto's historic cheat they are paul. producers say it will be a comedic take on ford's personal and political journey. no word if rob ford will play himself in it. >> let's talk about our politics because there is a lot of talk about there. we have brought on with us now the president of the peu research center, ellen murray. you have a new extensive survey by pew research center and show the divide in america that's grown wide over the past two decades. in 1994, consistently liberal and consistently conservative voters shared a wide overlap on many issues. but by 2014, the overall share of those voters has more than doubled. that's resulting the overlap o has diminished to a 92% of republicans are to the right of the median democrat.

on the other side. 94% of democrats are to the left of the median republican. and attitudes towards other parties has grown more negative. the number of democrats who have a negative view of the republican party has more than doubled to 38%. among those, 27% say that the gop is a threat to the nation's well-being. among republicans, negative fews of the democratic pear skyrocketed from 17% to 94% to 43% today. and 36% of republicans now say that the democratic party is a threat to the nation's well-being. joe, the numbers -- i will let you take it toable. i wonder if this refer to the news events we are seeing in politics today. >> the part of the survey that's the most disturbing is i don't care that americans are getting more liberal and more conservative at the same time. most disturbing part to me is that last number that you said

for both parties, over a third of both parties think the other side is actually detrimental to the country's future health. instead of saying i believe what i believe. it sure would be good to have somebody to balance me out, balance my ideas off of their ideas. and if somebody thinks differently and has a better idea than me, then we can compromise, figure it out, and move forward together. that's not will. that mindset was at the heart of american governance for well over 200 years. it appears over the past decade or two that there has been a real tear and that american tradition. >> i think you are absolutely right, joe. do i think that's the most disturbing part of the report. you know, nobody thought politics was a garden party back when you first ran for congress in 1994. if you look at these numbers, look at the intensity of the negative feeling, doubling of the sense of a very unfavorable

view of the other party, a majority of those people who have a very unfavorable view actually think the other party is a let to the nation and you see these negative motivations thats have really -- are driving politics today. as opposed to a positive motivation that, you know, this is somebody who stands for what i believe in is going to help bring us together and get things done. i think that's part of what was going on in virginia. >> thanks. we all know the names marissa meyer and cheryl sandberg. there is another crop of women changing the world of technology that you need to know about. spokesperson: the volkswagen passat is heads above the competition, but we're not in the business of naming names.

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♪ it is a special day. it has been a special week. earlier this week, barbara bush celebrated her birthday. today we are talking about a man celebrating his birthday who has been a congressman, a u.n. ambassador, the head of the republican party, ambassador to china, the director of the cia,

vice president of the united states and president of the united states. today it is george h.w. bush, 41 president of the united states, celebrates his 90th birthday. since no title has been more important to him than husband, pear and brand father, we honored to have with us, his granddaughter, jenna bush hager. she is with us from kennebunkport, maine. jenna, what a happy, joyous day it must be for the entire bush family today. >> it is such a joyous day. he, my grandfather, as you just said, he has done all these amazing things. one of the things he has done is sky dived -- or sky dove. what would it be? he is celebrating his birthday by skydiving once again. he told me this on his 88th birthday. we thought his plan seemed a bit ambitious but we are all thrilled, even my grandmother, he is following through with this plan today.

you did a jump, 80, 85. >> i had several of them since the war. >> you think you are done with skydiving? >> no, i have one more left in me. june 12, 2014. it will be fun. >> so today my 90 years young grand pear will once again celebrate his birthday at 10,000 feet. at this point it has become a time-honored birthday tradition. on his 80th birthday he jumped from texas. on his 85th, kennebunkport. my grandfather's passion for skydiving comes from a moment that changed him forever. as a 20-year-old fighter pilot, one of the youngest in world war ii, his plane was shot do you over the pacific. his only option, parachute into the open water. amazingly he suffered minor

injuries. and was rescued by an american submarine. search decades later, that one day remains a vivid memory. you were so young. were you scared? >> you felt being scared sometimes, not all the time. certainly when i was coming down in the parachute i was scared. i was scared when i was in the water swimming, getting away from the japanese island. i was scared. >> that experience actually sparked your love of skydiving. >> i think so. i did it wrong. i pulled the rip cord too early. hit the tail of the plane. my head -- coming -- a glancing blow. i decided later on, well,i want to do it right. that did spark my interest in making another jump. this time getting it correct. >> there were other men on the plane who didn't -- >> would that were killed. >> do you think still about those men? >> a lot. i think about them all the time. what could i have done different to save their lives?

on a theoretical, why me? why was my life spared? >> do you feel like you used that second shot at life to the best? >> well, i'm sure i could have done a lot of things better but it has been a -- fulfilling time my life, a lot of experiences and including being president of the united states. >> not too shabby. >> not too shabby. it was an interesting time. i enjoyed it all. enjoyed life. >> a life he cherishes though this day and despite a health scare and hospitalization over the past year, set to fulfill the promise of one more jump. surrounded by those that love him most. we are all in maine. we are going to witness him skydiving again politey soon. just the way every average 90-year-old celebrates their birthday. joe? >> jenna, that's absolutely crazy. once i guess a naval aviator,

always a naval aviator. i'm sure you will be happy but nervous as well. thank you for sharing this with us p.m. it means a lot to us. >> of course, guys. thanks so much. >> all right. thank you. we will back with more "morning joe" in just a minute. ♪

so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can. ♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe" at 43 past the hour. joining us is the editor-in-chief of "elle" magazine, robbie myers. their look at the female pioneers of the tech industry. remember talking to cheryl sandberg a couple of years ago and -- preparing for my book and she talked about getting women in tech, getting women in tech.

she said, let your daughters play with computers. it is okay. there are some amazing women leading now. >> there are. it is pretty much a boy's club out there. between wanted to look at women from very different talks of life that ended in the technology sector. at "elle" we like to celebrate women in the culture and these women are remaking the culture in front of our eye. >> and emerging. number one first or five? i can't tell from this. let's start with the rocket woman. okay. gwynn shotwell. >> she has a company that's going to set the topics for extraterrestrial travel. she manages billions of dollars. big companies, big clients, is nasa. >> wow. >> she is responsible for the mundane to the sublime.

>> founder of indi go-go. >> she helps young entrepreneurs with great ideas and in a creative space that don't know how to put to the a business. she helps fund them and put them together and run it and she's really committed to helping creative types like filmmakers and artists and, you know, people get their businesses off the ground. >> is it danae? >> i was going to make you say it. i was too afraid. >> that's one thing about the tech -- tech world is this -- it is a lot of young people. one of the interesting things we found is that the gender age gap in the technology industry is not as big as it is in other industries. >> explain that. >> i think because it is a young industry and it doesn't have -- it is filled with younger people. >> is there any other -- are we seeing any effect of having more

women in high leadership roles? industry-wide effects? >> i will tell you, start-ups that employ twice as many women were successful and -- twice as many -- sorry. companies of wise as many women involved were more successful than companies that had no women involved. >> i like that concept. matches up with sally who was on earlier and is starting a mutual fund and chairing it where they invest solely in companies, forbes. women in -- you know -- numbers of women and minorities. totally immediate it to make it successful i will say this about the tech industry, it is pretty much a boys club. once women are inside the cultures they are -- really, they can be very sixth place because they only represent about 25% of people employed in the tech sector. >> storm chaser. our family. >> yes.

journalist, started out at "the washington post" covering this industry and loved it so much she decided -- wanted to start her own business and had the entrepreneurial spirit. she started all things -- she is at re/code. >> one out of four people employed is women. is that a does encouragement from other women joining the field? >> we hope not. one nice thing we found about this list is so many of the women are really involved in -- nurturing girls, stem science technology, math. >> true. >> had is where, honestly, i think this is the next generation. i have two daughters. both are good in math. i was always told i wasn't. i think i believed it. and then it just became a self fulfills prophecy or i'm just bad in math. they are doing things i could never have done in high school. and taking advanced math and really interested in technology. i think we are going to see a sea change at some point.

>> i hope so. >> yeah. you know, mika, i just wanted to interject just a little bit here. i was always told i was bad in math, too. >> you were. >> you know why i was? >> why? >> because i was. i was terrible in math. this is such a -- this is such a -- male-dominated sector of our society. so much of it does have to do with that. doesn't it? aren't we trying to do something with stem as a country to get girls more involved and -- these areas and they need to be -- >> chevron made a big investment. there are companies noticing this. and noticing they need to sort of -- invest. >> absolutely. also, i will say most of the -- of the 13 -- a 13-year-old girl going to a stem high school next year. you know, they are very -- i think that school systems are now acknowledging this, too. it is not just the big companies. >> good. robbie myers, thank you so much. the new issue of "elle" out now. up next, she showed america she can handle a tough question on saturday night.

and now we are reuniting thomas, miss usa, right here on the set. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit skeptical.ss, what they do actually is rocket science.

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♪ miss usa 2014 is -- nevada. >> that is the moment. miss usa. >> all right. >> she is here. >> welcome to "morning joe." former miss nevada. now you are miss usa. that was the moment right before like my line was, ladies, drink this in, you know -- >> you didn't do that, did you? >> yes. you have to set up the anticipation before -- >> did you want to kill him? >> i don't know if i heard him say that. >> it is great you here. what was this like? over the weekend, sunday night. you have taken the crown of miss usa. what have the last couple of days been for you? >> amazing. i have never been to new york before. they put you in plane and take to you new york, move you into your new apartment. you are in this brand-new city. i'm loving it so far.

>> what have you done? >> all i got to do on my own was go to central park. i have girl friends and we went to central park. i will explore this weekend. i will have more time. >> fair enough. how mentally were you prepared for the actuality of winning? as you kept advancing in the competition, things got tougher and tougher. especially when it got to the final question. a tough one. were you mentally prepared to go all the way with this? >> i feel like i was. i feel like if you want to win you have to be mentally prepared for it. i really envisioned myself winning the whole time and envisioned what life would be like after the crown. >> after the crown. >> after the crown. after you get the crown. >> the crown is here, by the way. >> the crown is here. i have a riff with donald trump about the pageants. i'm concerned about the bikini part which apparently you nailed it. thomas, it is okay for me to be -- >> nailed it. >> am i like -- oh, my god. yeah, you did. all right. they are not outdated. you like it.

>> i like it. especially the bikini part of the pageant you like it? >> it is something that's important to us getting on stage we have to have dedication and perseverance and eat healthy and be very active and it -- those things can transfer over into the work force. you can't be lazy and have a good job and be successful. i feel like it can transfer. >> she goes back and volunteers at a place, women's shelter, where you ended up as a kid with your mom. you go back and tell these kids, you know, they can power through this situation. it is a real full-circle moment for you. what do you think the kids will say when you go back to get teach karate classes now? >> i have such a fun connection with those kids there. they already may me as miss nevada coming in and teaching them, little stranger danger moves. now even farther, i think lit encourage them that -- you know, not only are you in this position you are in right now but you can achieve anything. >> we have fun pictures that i took with my iphone.

these are exclusive. there is our nephew, dylan, patrick. rumor willis who asked thank you tough question. that was you. look at that. >> i was crying my eyes out. dang, have you those pictures. i didn't think anybody got those. >> congratulations. what, if anything, did we learn today? mika, put on the crown. put on the crown. there it is! she did it! verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.

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welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. special day today. we have with us, mrs. westchester, usa. what did you learn today? >> middle-aged westchester. i don't like pageants but i really like mia a lot. >> thank you. >> i'm glad you won. nice to meet you. joe, if it is way too early what time is it? see, i can be nice. >> you sure can. it is "morning joe." not to donald. stick around. it is time for chuck todd and "the daily orun-down." poll the leader. the pullout, future and scramble for power after house majority leader eric cantor announces he is stepping down. who is up and who is down in this game of thrones? musical chairs involved. plus, the impact on immigration legislation. ac