jen mulraney, one of hundreds she's done for this show over the last several years. and now she's moving on. she's a "politics nation" graduate and she wish her the best of luck in all that she does. goodbye, jen. we'll always miss you. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. will baghdad fall? let's play "hardball." . good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let's talk about the possible collapse of baghdad. the collapse of the red army, the collapse of the soviet union in the early 1990ed.

how many times have we seen the armored personnel carriers, men waving and firing their weapons into the air, the hotels and other symbols of the status quo, suddenly thrown open into the bearded, triumphant forces into the country side. is this the immediate future of baghdad? is this the picture we're soon to see on the american tv skreens, the blatant contradiction with what we see with our stunned eyes and what we were told was going to be the enduring reality between the ways in iraq and nation building? what gave us the idea that we could make a country over there in our specifications and we could turn a baathist dictatorship into a democracy. didn't the hanging gruesome of saddam hussein by his shiite conquerers give advance warning that the governing rule is more bent on exacting sectarian revenge? so here we are, watching the

sunnis head 13winto baghdad. bobby goesh is with "time" magazine and soon to be the managing editor of "quartz." and paul eaton is a senior adviser at the national security network. t the shiite cleric told the shias to take on arms. they have vowed to marnl on baghdad. in washington, some powerful voices on the right are now urging military action, including senatoring john mccain and lindsay graham. today the president said he's considering his options and also had a pointed message for prime minister maliki of iraq. the united states will help, but ultimately it's up to the iraqis to solve their own problems. let's watch. >> we will not be accepteding u. -- sending u.s. troops back into combat in iraq.

but i have asked my national security team to prepare a range of other options that could help support iraq security forces. and any action that we may take to provide assistance has to be joined by a serious and sincere effort by iraq's leaders to set aside sectarian differences, to promote stability and account for the legitimate interests of all of iraq's communities. we can't do it for them. and in the absence of this type of political effort, short-term military action, including any assistance we might provide won't succeed. >> we can't do it for them. that statement reminded me of another u.s. president speaking of another world leader, john f. kennedy in 1963, asked about vietnam in an interview with walter cronkite. let's watch. >> it's their war. they're the ones that to win it or lose it. we can help them, give them

equipment, accepted our men out there as advisers, but they have to win it, the people of vietnam against the communists. we're prepared to continue to assist them. but i don't think that the war can be won unless the people support the earffort. and in my view the government has gotten out of touch with the people. >> your thoughts about the situation right now? get to the general in a second. same question to both of you. what's it look like on the war front right now in the outskirts of baghdad? >> well, chris, you have to think that the -- baghdad won't fall, although a week ago i would say mosul wouldn't fall. you would have to think a large shiite population with presumably the best units of the iraqi military are going to put up a stronger fight against isis than mosul did or tikrit, which are all predominantly sunni towns. that being said, this is a war that the iraqis have to win on

the ground. it's all well for us now to say to maliki, you should govern better, but that's a problem for next week, next month, if he can survive that long. right now, the next 48 hours, the next seven days he has to protect his capital and his army has to take back the cities that they have lost. if he can't do that, then no amount of assistance we can provide from here is going to change the dynamics on the ground. >> that puts us in a situation for the next week of being on the same side as the iranian and revolutionary guard. joined the side we've been fighting for this week, you say? >> i don't think we can join this fight. it's the fight the iraqis have to fight and when. and there's not a whole lot we can do. all this talk of providing air security and drones, but that's -- that's just not going to happen. air security and drones as the general would say requires a level of ground intelligence

that we don't have and we cannot trust the iraqi military or the iraqi government to provide that kind of intelligence. so there's nothing at the moment militarily the united states can do. the iraqis have to win this one by themselves. and politically, it's important as well for the rest of iraqi to see their army is standing up to these people. foreign boots on the ground, whether they're iranian boots or american boots to protect the capital of iraq. >> apparently, general, we have the i rarian revolutionary guard coming to the assistance of this home guard there. how does it look militarily? and should we even be thinking about what john mccain is saying today? by the way, senator mccain said he wants -- here he is, he insisted the war in iraq had been won. the country was stable and all was good until president obama withdrew the troops. let's watch him here. he goes further later today. >> the fact is we had the conflict won. the surge had succeeded.

and then the decision was made by the obama administration to not have a residual force in iraq. >> what about going in in the first place? and what about churning the hate? what about taking the sunnis out of leadership positions in 2003? what about the fact that there might have been some parts of this that are on the previous administration that could be relitigated as well? >> well, what about the fact that we had it won. what about the fact that people like me said we've got to -- >> did we? >> we've got to get the surge going. yes, we did, finally. and what about the fact that general petraeus had the conflict won, thanks to the surge. >> i don't know what victory means anymore in that kind of situation. i mean, there's snapshot victories and then the next day some group takes over. >> military, we came to a draw. but there's been a slow train wreck going on politically that set the stage for where we are right now. so we may have come to -- fought to a draw, as senator mccain

said militarily, but we had not solved the political problem that has endured and has created the mess that we're in right now. and by the way, i don't think baghdad is going to fall. the units are coming up, they're predominantly shia, they're going to hold. maliki is going to turn it over to a competent general and we're going to harden the defense of baghdad. once he's got a reasonably strong defense of baghdad, at that point, you leave the fortress and you take back the train that you've lost. but the isis, these guys are coming into territory that's increasingly unfriendly to them. >> unfriendly to the government? >> unfriendly to -- no, they're coming into -- >> oh, i get you. >> coming out of the sunni triang where will they've got a base of support. they've got people who are either friendly or at least going to turn a blind eye. but as they come into the shiaa controlled areas, we've got more shia fop lapopulation, it's goi

get tougher for isis to prosecute. and i suspect we'll see a turn in the combat here to maliki. >> what do you make of john mccain saying he needs air power to get in there right now? start shooting at the insurgents. start shooting at isis on behalf of the government in baghdad? >> target-level detail intelligence is difficult to come by in the best of conditions. isis -- >> translate that to civilian talk. meaning these are not advancing columns. this is not like in world war ii where you have units moving toward on a roadway. >> correct. they're going to have to find the targets. but the problem with the isis and insurgents is they hug the population. so the bombs don't discriminate when you've got a lot of people in a tight space, not all of whom are enemy people. so air power is an issue. i -- if we do military options, the president has a profound amount of military in the united

states that can stiffen the spine of the iraqi forces. >> bobby, this gets back to the central question, what are we in this war for? if it is a civil war between suni and shia. it looks like it's become that. maybe it shouldn't be, but this isis group has ginned it up this way now. if they're going to effect the sunni territory, itting begins to look like a divided geography. why are we taking one half and killing people on the other side because we've somehow politically cut a deal with maliki, who has refused to play our politics, which is inclusion politics. why are we killing anybody? what moral right do we have to go in there and kill people? that's my old question, the moral question. what are we doing on international television for 10, 12 years now, killing arabs. that's what we do. >> it's especially hard, as the general says, these guys hug the population. it's one thing if you're facing

an open battle against a group that has an enormous amount of civilian blood on their hand and are identifiable as bad guys. but that's not how they operate. they do not march down single file on a highway as if this was the second world war. they are scattered. in fact, if they did operate like that, they wouldn't have been successful. even the iraqi army would have been able to pick them off if they were marching down a column. the fact that they can disappear, blend into a crowd, the fact that they can ignore the terrain very well, these are mostly iraqi fighters, not foreigners. that's the reason why they've succeeded and that's the reason why simple solutions like the one that senator mccain is suggesting are not going to work. >> here's my view about this thing generalry. our military is unbelievable. they're a volunteer army, they do what they're ordered to do. they're the worst in the world, these outposts and afghanistan.

so that to me, my wife said this to me, it puts more and more onus on the political leaders to get it right. if these guys are going to fight a good fight, make sure they're fighting the right fight. and my question to you is did it ever make sense to you going into iraq? what are we doing in there? who govr view a government. >> endeed. i was a major general watching this unfold. i was not part of the invasion force. when secretary powell said, you know, smoking -- >> nuclear weapon. >> i said all right, perhaps we have a problem. but it is proven to be utterly disastrous. >> and also that was confected for the european allies. >> and executed badly, at the senior leadership level. so this has been a disaster for the very beginning. >> thank you for your service, general. and thank you to all the military people watching.

and thank you for the regional look at this thing. coming up, americans say the war in iraq, was it worth it from the beginning? what makes the hawks now think there's appetite for more military action, people like john mccain saying send in the fighter pilots and the bombers. plus, how far will chris christie try to go to get people to look past his troubles in jersey? this far. ♪ >> like all that political shock therapy. when a politician does something so unexpected and ridiculous, so out there to try to shock public opinion back to his side. and what happens when u.s. congressman charlie rangel of new york is caught googling on his hand held device during a debate? foreign object in the hand. that's in "the side show" and

finally, my call for the people who took us into the iraq to never again mention the word. this is "hardball." who, really, has the key to the city? with best-in-class payload and best-in-class cargo capacity and an unsurpassed powertrain warranty, you run the town. the all-new ram promaster guts. glory. ram. hey there can i help you? shhhhhh (whispering) sorry (whispering) hi, uh we need a new family plan. (whispering) how about 10 gigs f data to share and unlimited talk and text. (whispering) oh ten gigs sounds pretty good. (whispering) yeah really good. (whispering) and for a family of four, it's $160 a month (impressed, breaks whisper mode) what! get outta here! (whispering) i'm sorry are we still doing the whisper thing? or? (whispering) o! sorry! yes yes! we'll take it. at&t introduces our best-ever family pricing. for instance, a family of four gets 10 gigs of data,

with unlimited talk & text, for $160 dollars a month. >> we have new polling on the 2016 presidential race. according to a new polling from bloomberg, hillary clinton leads chris christie nationwide by seven points. it's clinton 45, christie 38. no other republican comes that close to hillary clinton. against jeb bush, capitol hill ton leads by nine. 47 for clinton, 38 for bush. same for rand paul, 47 to 38. and against marco rubio, clinton's lead grows up to 11 points. clinton 47, rubio, just 36. i know what you're thinking... transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process.

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>> welcome back to "hardball" no matter how the question is asked, the majority of americans clearly consider the iraq war a mistake.

in the most recent nbc/wall street journal poll chen asked whether the iraq war was worth it more than 60% say not worth it. then there's the way cbs asked the question in march 2013 poll. do you think the united states did the right thing in taking military action against iraq? or should the united states have stayed out? 54% say we should have stayed out. and in the most recent poll comes from pugh/"usa today" conducted in january. do you think the united states has mostly succeeded in failed in achieving its goals in iraq. 52% say failed. given that set of data, let's listen to andrea mitchell ask senator john mccain about selling americans now on any sort of military involvement in iraq. >> given the state of -- the facts on the ground right now, how do you persuade americans that there's any military option they ought to embrace to try to bail maliki out and restore a country that's coming apart at

the seams. >> first of all, i think you have to explain to the american people what kind of a threat that isis takeover of iraq would pose to the united states of america. can you imagine a caliphate or a center of violent muslim extremism dedicated to attacking the united states, the consequences of that. that has to be explained to the american people. >> joining me now is senior political reporter in the daily beast kimberly dozier who was seriously injured covering the iraq war. you say wounded covering a war, you never see injured. john mccain, bles his heart, has a particular history, seven years in the hanoi hilton. he doesn't like half attempts. but the americans look at this as a long slog of nothing.

to me, the most horrific example is the hanging of saddam hussein. that was an act of revenge by a bunch of thugs. how much fun can we have at this party. your thoughts? the american people, what can you tell their opinion about mccain is out there talking air strikes. hillary clinton says not now. prudently, but not now. but it seems to be a turnoff. >> not just in iraq and afghanistan and libya. the polls show americans, republicans and democrats, just want to stay out of wars right now. i think the idea that obama or john mccain can convince americans we will intervene is not going to happen. it's not going to be public opinion is demanding it. i don't think that will be the case anytime soon where public opinion is demanding that. >> i despise when people say all options are on the table.

what they mean is we're going to go to war and end up shooting people. the only people for the war are the ones who write columns. i don't know if the service members' parents are pushing this war. your thoughts? >> president obama is specifically saying he won't be putting large numbers of troops on the ground. >> what about air strikes? he's saying all options. what is he talking about? >> it will require more intelligence forces on the ground. both special operations, cia, et cetera. >> is there a moral authority to go into iraq at this point? is there a moral authority? >> that's one thing they have to figure out. it's not specifically al qaeda. that which we use to invade iraq it doesn't apply. it doesn't specifically say a group that divorced itself from al qaeda is also a threat. so the white house might have to

go back to capitol hill for approval. the american people would like to know there's some limit to power in the presidency. >> the president is talking about striking in syria and the congress is pushing back so aggressively, he immediately stop there had. there may be the legal authority, i've been told that john mccain is saying there's legal authority. >> what is the legal authority? >> we already authorized the war. >> we left. >> if americans are under threat then you have american diplomats. >> we're in every capital in the world. we have missionaries and business people anywhere. we could fight anywhere at anytime. >> but to play the devil's advocate. >> you are the devil. you are making an argument that justifies military action anytime a president wants to conduct it.

>> the about what could happen with iraq and syria remaining permanently in the hands of an islamic militant group or just northern iraq and syria. it becomes a nexus for foreign fighter, even more than it already is. we're talking about foreign fighters being drawn to syria and possibly now to the northern part of iraq, or the sunni-held areas to learn the kind of skills that would not only perpetuate a civil war in that area between the sunnis and the shiites, but also be the kind of things they could use in western capitals in the united states. >> that's an argument for us controlling all the land mass in the middle east. because it may be used for terrorism. here's my question. why are we on the same side as the iran revolutionary guard. battalions there defending baghdad. what does iran have in common with us in fighting terrorism? >> there's a difference in using, as john brennan used to

say, the counterterrorism forces of the u.s. like a scalpel to try to hit certain targets, take out certain leadership, and from what i understand, that's the kind of aid being considered to being given to iraq. >> here's my point, both of you. we in the united states senate, i didn't get to vote, i'm not a certain. hillary clinton voted for this one. john mccain always does. to declare the iranian revolutionary guard a terrorist organization. now there's talk by mccain of joining them on the same side. fighting the rebels over there. fighting the sunnis because there in there fighting on behalf of the maliki government now. if they're the terrorists, are we on their side now? or are there terrorists op both sides? >> what administration officials would say is that the iranians are in there, backing the shiite side of the government and possibly to meanting more of this sectarian violence, making matters worse, what the u.s. would provide this kind of aid.

as the president said today, they have to clean up their political act and represent all sides of the country where they're not going to get u.s. help. the u.s. is trying to say we'll give you help but you've got to start playing all sides. >> back when we were de-baathicizing that government and this guy with the nice looking suit, bremer, with the suit and the brown shoes he wore all the time. they went in there and did something that had nothing to do with us. they got rid of the iraqi army, got rid of the iraqi government, destroyed the entire politics from that country which was sunnis. they told the sunnis we're not on your side. we basically waged war against the sunnis. >> is the civil war which is what you're saying, or is it an elected government we're trying to defend. if it's a civil war, it's like

syria, with we're definitely not going to go in. >> historical point. yes, later on, the u.s. military reached out to the sunnis and there was a whole anbar awakening and we became their greatest ally. then in 2011, we handed it over to the maliki government. >> and he got rid of the all the sunnis. >> then he started working against the sunni leadership and death squads started going after -- settling old score again, just like they did in the bad old days. >> that's my case. thank you for making my case. there was a little fight there, but it always should be a fight here. have a nice weekend. coming up, jon stewart's theory on why the sunni insurgents are moving so fast towards baghdad. and this is "hardball" the place for politics. she keeps you on your toes.

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the militants are advancing towards iraq's capital of baghdad. >> what the [ bleep ] is going on over there! how are the militants moving so quickly? is it ez pass? >> welcome back to "hardball." time now for "the side show." one congressman is known for his high tech high jinx. charlie rangel is pretending to take a phone call during his democratic primary debate. but on wednesday, rangel was supposedly caught researching a candidate's answer. watch this? >> the one thing that i created was the dream center to help young people reimagine the possibilities bound for them. it's not an idea i talked about. i have actually done it. >> congressman, are you googling? >> no, i just wanted to show

what he was picking out was not consistent -- >> it's not fair because they're -- >> i was going to show it to him, but you're right. >> from now on, this is the clip that comes up if you google the words charlie rangel and debate, that scene. finally, the world cup has begun in bra s ill. here's what jimmy fallon of "the tonight show" had to say about that. >> today is the start of the world cup. the world cup. it's that special time of year when americans in bars are like i guess we're watching this now. i don't know. is that all that's on. isn't there a lumberjack competition on espn5 or something? >> so true. regardless, it's safe to say international football fever is spreading rapidly across the globe and even out of this world. nasa released this video of astronauts on the international space station playing soccer in space. two american astronauts and one german can be seen here showing

off their moves in micro gravity. up next, chris christie dancing with jimmy fallon. like nixon and "laugh in" and president obama with zach gal fi knack kiss, it's shock therapy. a politician trying to shake up his image for the better. i spent my entire childhood seeing the world in reverse, and i loved every minute of it. but then you grow up and there's no going back. but it's okay, it's just a new kind of adventure. and really, who wants to look backwards when you can look forward? peoi go to angie's listt for all kinds of reasons. to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town.

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sergeant bowe bergdahl is back in the u.s. army officials say he's in stable condition and unaware of the controversy surrounding his release. so far there's no timetable for his release from a medical center in texas. richard rork feller, the grandson of john d. rockefeller died this morning in a small plane crash. he was on his way back to maine when the plane he was flying went down near westchester airport. and gm is recalling more cars

because of an ignition problem. they have recalled about 14 million cars this year. now back to "hardball." ♪ >> welcome back to "hardball." after that. anyway, that was chris christie dancing, i guess you call that, on "the tonight show" with jimmy fallon last night. and a performance we're not likely to forget anytime soon. to me it's the latest move in christie's charm offensive to rehabilitate his image amid the

unfolding george washington bridge scandal, et cetera, et cetera. posturing himself for a potential run for president still in 2016 should he escape the legal entanglements of the scandal. what he wants to show here is that he has nothing to hide, literally. he's willing to look really silly and that may be harmless. it's the perfect counternarrative of the headline perception that he's a schoolyard bully. but playing against type isn't new in american politics because guess what? it works. the common perception of richard nixon in 1968 was dha he was uptight, raj jidly old fashioned in a changing era. but his appearance on "laugh in" helped counter the impression a little bit. >> oh, no. i don't think we could get mr. nixon to stand still for sock it to me. >> sock it to me? >> as a candidate in 1976, jimmy carter opened to shed his holier than thou image by agreeing to

an interview with "playboy," causing a shutter to many who thought the born-again christian was too prudish. and in 2000, mayor rudy giuliani topped them all, hoping to soften his tough law and order appearance by cross dressing. >> you know, you're really beautiful. >> a woman that lacks like that has to have her own special scent. >> oh, well, thank you. maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent? >> hmm. i like that. >> i think that's pretty indecent, actually. most recently we saw president obama join zach galifinakis on "between two ferns." so is chris christie's image makeover going to work? his hands are pretty full with problems in the garden staet. he faces five active investigations right now, legal investigations into the george

washington bridge scandal. he's got a budget short fall that's real and lacklustre job growth, all big hurdles on his way to 2016. anyway, joining us is long-time crisis pr expert and vice chair howard bragman. this looks to me like classic crisis management. he and his pr team have said you've got to wait a long time, many months to find out if you're clean of this legal entanglement. you have people who may get indicted. but you've got to assume and have a contingency plan if you do avoid indictment. if nobody too close to you gets indi indicted, you' already got some momentum. i think that's what he's up to. >> i think this was a very good political moment. he went to jimmy fallon who's been very critical of him. you get extra points for going into the lion's den, gone very fierl, very funny, very well written. all these things work to his benefit. a great moment.

but i don't think in any way do i see this as a game changer. and that's the issue here. any more than nixon ended up being a warm, cuddly president after he said sock it to me. he's not going to change who he is. and further, chris, there's one thing. i keep thinking if i was the political opposition, i could craft the best anti-christie ad by taking some of the nasty headlines that run in the state of new jersey and you simply ask the question, is chris christie dancing again and you show this videotape. >> i know, what do you think? i think the picture of him dancing is so unforgettable. i don't even think you have to show it again. i think people are going to just -- why is this guy doing this on television. >> that's a very diplomaticed adjective and i applaud you for it. he got a panel of critics hired by governor chris christie to

review this. for the few minutes that i was watch, i forgot this is a guy who doesn't think gay americans should be allowed to marry who they want. this isn't a guy who thinks people with cancer should have medical marijuana. he's against gun safety, against raising the minimum wage. i'm glad he had a good day. he deserves to have a few laughs in his life and it's not the liberals or the media who are chris christie's foes on the road to the republican nomination. i think you gentlemen are both right. this man is running. what chris christie is up against is the tea party. and they're the ones who despise him because he put helping his own hurricane ravaged state above hating the president. >> even the more puritan call 350e people on the right opposed to dancing, they probably say this is why there shouldn't be dancing out there. >> lost the calvinist vote last night. >> to dance like he was there, you have to have a few pops.

governor christie sought to down play the bridge scandal with humor. he even extracted an apology from jimmy fallon for beating him up over it. >> you had a little scandal happen. >> what are you talking about? >> i don't know if you heard about it. boy did you get hit in the press pretty hard. and some late night shows made -- [ laughing ] >> are you sorry? >> very sorry. >> i accept your apology. >> you know what, howard, i have to tell you about christie, we covered him on the way up, we covered him through the scandal. there's something about the guy -- he's certainly not going to walk away from this totally clean. look at all his aides involved in this. and there was a culture of bullying obviously. my question is, is he just good copy? like frank risso who come along in philly. they're like ralph cramdon,

they're so much more interesting than most politicians, just because of the nature of who they are. >> there's certainly that aspect of it, chris. this guy is kind of fun to watch. he says a lot of outrageous things. and if to you look at the republican party, it's anybody's race right now. >> he's four points down from hillary clinton in the strongest state. i grew up in pennsylvania. i know how strong hillary is up there. he's only four points hin her. at this point right now. >> he's incredibly formidable. but i don't think there's a chance in hell that this guy is ever going to get the republican nomination. there are too many far right people that hit him for hugging bill clinton. and we'll never forget them. >> i think you're exactly right. and it's interesting in noting watching this that, you know, the dances he did were -- i don't think we're going to see rand paul to do the libertarian

two-step or ted cruz renounce my canadian citizenship shuffle. the missing sandy funds or the three downgrades for my state. but until he dance the new jerseyer. walk, his political career is not over until fox news pout putts a d next to him in the chyron. >> go on youtube and watch the dances. it goes on and on and on and on. and it's so bouncy. up next, just in time for father's day. my nbc colleague to talk about his great new book. "good talk, dad." ♪ [ male announcer ] out here, answers should always outweigh excuses. ♪ and there's no excuse why a gas-powered heavy-duty truck can't do everything you ask of it. no excuse at all.

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make it matter. now i have my own family and well, we're on our own vacation. and you know something, russ. >> what dad? >> we're going to have fun. we're going to have fun. hey, don't let your mother smell that beer on your breath. she'll take it out on me. well, i better get a move on if i want to get us out of here by dark. good talk, son. >> good talk, dad. >> good talk, dad. that was a scene from chevy chase's "national lampoon vacation" back in the 1980s. it helped inspire the new book co-authored by my colleague titled "good talk dad" the birds

and the bees and other conversations we forgot to have. after his father bill announced to the world he has parkinson's disease, a condition he hid from willie and his sister for ten years. they decided to get to these ge conversations they didn't have when willie was growing up, from sex and booze to his father's experience in vietnam and what life is like living with parkinson's disease. better late than never, i guess, right? if you're looking for last-minute father's day gift, this is the one. willie geist, co-host of the third hour of msnbc's "today show." what's it like -- what about -- let's get out to the question of war stories. my dad, who didn't serve overseas in world war ii, but never got sent over, i said

don't you miss having war stories to tell? he said no, my friends never tell the stories. is it your sense that your father, did he ever come clean and tell you the bad stuff that happened in vietnam? >> it's funny, in writing this book, a lot of people asked you what did you learn about your father? you feel like over 40 years you know about everything about him. but there was a year from 1969 when he served in vietnam as a combat photographer that he department want to talk about. i nibbled around it several times. he would have a couple of drinks and try to go there and he just never wanted to. he had these photographs, because he was a combat photographer, so i had some sense of what he had been doing and what he had seen, but he didn't want to talk about it. i think it's what you said. he told me he didn't want to be the guy in the bar trading on the deaths of 58,000 guys in vietnam. he didn't want to be a war story guy. and also he was living in

denial. didn't want to talk about it. i said wouldn't it be great in this book if you took this opportunity to tell me and other people what you went through. he remembered everything. he remembered every guy, every village and every road. it's a really moving chapter. >> i always ask this of guys that are in a combat situations out there in the jungle which movie is the most realistic. did you ever ask him that? certainly "platoon" is pretty scary. >> yeah, ""apocalypse now"" probably goes a little far. but he just never romanticized it for me. he feels that way when you've been having these discussions about war. he was there in vietnam and he knows what happened and he's had the experience looking back and says, when we will ever learn? i think it's not something he views, his experience in war, in a very glamorous way. and he frankly didn't want to

talk about it very much. but i did get him to write it in this book. >> my dad never talked to us about the birds and the bees. the closest he came was to say, if you don't know it now, you won't know it. what age were you when your dad got to the birds and the bees? >> he tried once when i was 13 or 14. we were sitting there watching a baseball game and there was a pitching change and he said, hey, do you think we should have that sex talk. i turned to him action faced and started talking to him about don mattingly, anything, go right back to baseball, our safe place. we never had the conversation about the birds and the bees. now he tries to go back, part of this book is we have these conversations retroactively. in this case, it's about 25 years too late for me. but he says you got two kids, you figured something out.

>> he must be proud of you. >> i hope so. >> you're on a trajectory to greatness. >> oh, come on, come on. this isn't about me. i'll tell you, chris, i had a great role model, not just professionally and how to write and put stories together but how to behave. again, with career, he didn't suggest i get into this business. he never sat me down and said journalism is a noble calling, try it out. all i had to do was watch him. he had a fun life and it seemed like his job was more interesting than the other dad's jobs. i think like a lot of things in our relationship and our life, i learned by osmosis. >> some day i want to read your story. that's going to be one of the great stories. any way, the book he wrote, great for father's day.

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let me end this week with a message from almost 13 years ago. it was in the days after 9/11 that the neocons and their hawkish republican allies began beating their drums to get us into iraq. there was no reason for it. nothing justified for us

attacking a country that had not committed an act of war against us. before we went into iraq, we had believed sense the time since we were kids that those who started the war were the bad guys. i'll never understand how a president so limited in his ability or sense of history as george w. bush, a vice president as uncharismatic as dick cheney could so screw this country to the wall of history as the band that ran things in materially years of this century. we were united after 9/11. they were the ones who divided us, and divided iraq into the two warring factions. they went into iraq and took apart the iraqi army, iraqi government and replaced it in a sectarian bunch primarily interested in getting even with their fellow americans. just look at the spectacle of saddam being hanged in front of

jeering shiites. history will make us part of this debacle, the people who took us into baghdad should cease and desist from ever again even saying the word "iraq." that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today, the man who ended the american involvement in the iraq war showed little appetite for rejoining that war already in progress. from president barack obama, no reinvasion of iraq. >> we will not be sending u.s. troops back into combat in iraq, but i have asked my national security team to prepare a range of other options that could help support iraq security forces and i'll be reviewing those options in the days ahead. >> the president did lead the door open to air strikes, but