"now" starts now. >> as a crisis in iraq worsens, u.s. considers talks with a long time foe. it is tuesday, june 17th and this is "now". >> there is a giant hole in the middle of the middle east. >> more violence raging in iraq. >> heavy fighting between sunni insurge enlts and iraqry government forces. >> president obama is now authorized 275 troops -- >> to provide support and security for u.s. workers and the u.s. embassy. >> the iraqi government is focused on stamping out the insurgency there but not through the tactics favored through the obama administration. >> are we going to be fighting on behalf of the maliki government? >> he has done more damage to that country than anyone -- >> what we can't do is make it look like there's an iranian/american alliance. >> the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy. >> any regrets about trying to go in back in 2003?

>> the real point now is not do the i told you sos. >> can go one in five ways and four are very bad. >> is there a pottery barn rule where the united states government has a responsibility in dealing with iraq? >> this is a really messy situation. >> i'm ezra klein. iraq continued its steady implosion as a car bomb exploded killing ten people. 44 stunny prisoners were killed in a local police station and heavily clashes broke out in the northeastern city 34 short miles from baghdad. the bodies of four young men were found shot to death on streets of baghdad. according to the long war journal, and this is incredible, the terrorist organization isis controls nearly a third of the entire country of iraq. meanwhile, the u.s. is sending 275 troops to provide support

and secure the u.s. embassy. amidst all of this chaos, the u.s. may be turning to an unlikely ally, iran. the news of the u.s. and iran may cooperate to save iraq's government is a measure of how totally the iraq war failed to achieve its original -- this was george w. bush in march of 2003. >> unlike saddam hussein, we believe the iraqi people are deserving of human liberty and when the dictator has departed, they can set an example to all of the middle east of a vital and peaceful and self-governing nation. >> it is easy to forget, after nef nefrn, there was a genuinely consequential fight about what nefrn was and those who saw attacks a crime of mass homicide, but a crime. but there were others who saw that as much bigger, between the

values and armies of the liberal democratic waste and islamic world. a clash of civilizations. they actually use that term, a clash of civilizations used it a lot. that's crucial context for the iraq war. the bush administration didn't just want to invade iraq because it was suaddam hussein's -- the wanted to create a countweight through the glittering example. it was called the democratic domino theory. first they would become a beacon of political freedom and economic success and one by one they would rise up and force their countries to follow. the war on terror would end with a fight and end with a vote. a decade later iraq is becoming the very things the invasion and rebuilding was meant to destroy.

it could become a shiite dominated state dependent on iran for security. it could become a weaker broken state that serves partly as a haven. it could even end up as a bit of both. the one thing it does not look likely to be, at least not any time in the foreseeable future is the liberal democratic counterweight to radical islam. there is no one in the middle east who looks to the iraqi state and sees a better life for them and for their children. joining me now ambassador nicholas burns and joint fellow with the u.s. institute of peace, robin wright. robin, i would like to begin with you. should the u.s. work with iran? if anyone seems to be a victim of failed u.s. poltcy, it is iran. often they are portrayed who the one as we have the most severe tensions with in the middle east? >> i've been in iran twice in the last six months and talked

to the iranian foreign minister and i'm struck by the fact for the first time on iraq the united states and iran share a common cause. they both are deeply concerned about the disent grags of iraq under the pressure of sunni insurgents concerned about whether democratically elected government will survive and they are looking to the kind of formula that will preserve the territorial integrity of iraq. these are all issues which they share in common. there is the potential. there's an important distinction. and one is the idea of consulting with iran an the other is military coordination. there's no question as secretary kerry has already suggested that we will consult with iran. it happened yesterday in vienna. from what i understand today it was a one day series of talks. it's not continuing during the parallel process of the nuclear talks in vienna. but it's also very clear that the pentagon and the white house are not interested in military coordination. so we have to be very careful

when we talk about what we might do with iran that we understand the big difference between what is at stake here. >> nicholas, in the new yorker, lawrence wright wrote a piece about iraq and how isis rise, something of a surprise. he wrote al qaeda under osama bin laden and successor did not see iraq as a likely candidate to become a sunni islamist state. do you think there is a possibility of a substantial portion of iraq permanently falling into the hands of a group like isis or is it a temporary setback? >> we're seeing the fracturing of iraq and as you know of northern syria as well as the great part, maybe up to a third of western and parts of northern iraq, this is a very ominous development that there's an emerging radical sunni religious order in both of those countries. the great danger is that along

with other trends, the possibility of an independent kurd i stan. it's a very dangerous moment. if iraq fractures it will be felt in syria, lebanon and jordan and all surrounding countries. i agree with robin that it makes sense for the united states to be talking to the iranians. we've had 34 years of no discussions, we both have an interest in stability in the middle east. i also agree that it doesn't make sense for us to strengthen that part of the iranian government, that's the revolutionary guard. it's not am the american interest to see the revolutionary guard come into iraq and fan the flames of a religious war between shia and sunni. that's what makes this decision so difficult for president obama. i have sympathy for the administration. it does stand to reason we should ask prime minister

maliki, demand really before the united states uses any air power in defense of his government, that he makes a commitment once again, although he's failed to honor these commitments for an inclusive government where the sunnis have a role to play in baghdad. enormously complicated decision. i can understand why the president is taking his time he here. >> robin, the role of syria, there's a tremendous amount of chaos there that was what we thought i think six months ago would be the very tough u.s. foreign policy challenge and isis has been immeasurably through it. can you walk us through the role in syria and isis' rise? >> isis took off in syria. it emerged in the aftermath of what started out as a peaceful protest by civilians against

auto cratic rule. you saw the emergence of fighting forces and then increasing radicalization. it was in that context that isis was -- took root and mobilized not only people inside syria but a lot of foreign fighters and their estimates now go into the thousands of how many foreigners from as far away from the united states and europe as well as within the region have joined in and are fighting in both syria and today in iraq. that's what makes the threat from both countries so dangerous for the outside world is that you could see the return of a lot of these jihaddyes after a war or even in the midst of a war to the home countries and taking the ideology and tactics with them and preding destabilization in a way that would dwarf the experience with the jihaddyes out of afghanistan. >> i think the point he makes is important, particularly as

relates to the disburse of skilled fighters. the unraveling of some of the most world war i and ii map of the middle east. do you think we're at that point? do you think this could stick to the degree that borders are redrawn in effect? >> it's a possibility. i don't think it's a likelihood but it's a possibility. even if it's a possibility, we've got to be concerned about it. the borders as drawn by the british and french don't always make a lot of sense in the middle east but they are the borders we have. if we begin change borders by violent means, the question is where does that end. if you allow iraq to be fractured into two or three big parts, what kind of impact will that have on syria and lebanon, on jordan? what kind of impact will that have on israel as well? the middle east is in a state of confusion, division and of incredible warfare. in syria, 160,000 dead.

at least over 9 million refugees and those numbers could be much higher if we stand by and allow this to happen. i think the united states does have to act here. not with american troops on the ground, but to use our air power but at the president's right, in return for that, we should have commitments from prime minister maliki. he's at the root of this current drama. it's his exclusion nar processes that have fanned the flames among the sunnis in iraq. >> thank you very much. coming up, ambassador burns is sticking with us as we discuss american's role in politics. how much influence do we really have in the region left. that's next on "now." ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

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going to vofl itself in a military action -- >> that was president obama set being a key condition for involvement, that they develop a plan to reform its own behalf yor. he means a general radical departure from the way nuri al maliki has governed. now with the sunni militants of isis rampaging across northern iraq, the u.s. is insisting maliki reach out to sunnis and kurds. but how much does u.s. pressure mean to maliki right now? according to a former deputy commander in iraq, michael barbaro, not that much. as he told dexter fill kinz, now we have no leverage in iraq

without any troops there, just another group of guys. back with me now is ambassador nicholas burns. nicholas, this is something i'm really fascinated to hear you reflect on. you've spent a lot of time working with players and live in the region. there's so much discussion about putting air power into play, putting troops under the ground. we think about u.s. involvement in terms of the force we can bring to bear. what about the diplomacy, do maliki and circle or other relatively important players care what we think? >> i think they do. i would agree of course we don't have anywhere close to the influence we used to have in iraq when we had 150,000 troops there and were the occupying power but the united states is still the most important power outside power in the middle east. politically and militarily. we have an ability to coordinate some of the actions of the arab countries that could be in support of the maliki government and other outside powers and

have the ability to talk to the iranians. i think a good thing for us to have done. our goal should be to keep the iranians out and try to blunt the increase of iranian power in the shia world in iraq. and we also have to block isis and hopefully lead an international effort, not by troops in the ground but through diplomatically and otherwise to defeat the moment because it's such a barbaric movement. that's going to be difficult to do. i do think president obama's statement is a fundamentally correct one, that we have the power to act through a power but we shouldn't do that indiscriminately because we'd accomplish nothing. if we just used air power for a few days. it has to be attached to a diplomatic campaign of the type the president outlined. i said, ezra, in the last segment, this is an extraordinarily difficult discussion for the american government. i understand why the president is taking his time. he's right to coerce prime

minister maliki into a power sharing new government and new leadership of that government if that's possible. >> something else you said previously, maliki in his harshly sectarian policies are at the root of the crisis. maliki is somebody america helped raised to power. identified as somebody that could be a prime minister candidate when we became dissatisfied with his predecessor and helped raise him up. now there's very broad dissatisfaction, what is he like as a leader? why ha this gone from him being the correct leader to him being the problem in iraq? >> it was clear the shia had to leave the government in baghdad gifrns the importance of the shia community and its weight in iraq. maliki emerged as someone people thought perhaps could run the government efficiently and the hope was that he would reach out to the sunnis and kurds, he's not done anything like that.

both president bush in his last years in office and president obama in the first term worked very hard to try to convince maliki to open up to the sunni community. remember, the reason why the surge -- president bush's surge succeeded in 2007 and 2008, was we were able to get the support of the sunni war lord and elders to support a reimposition of law and orderer in iraq. that's not the case now. some of those same sunni leaders are joining forces with isis against the government in baghdad. i think maliki is on very thin ice here in his own country and internationally and if he doesn't adjust his policy, they'll be very little support for them and i don't see why the united states would want to intervene through air power without solid assurances through the government that it's going to change its tune. >> this might seem like a simple question but i think it's important. what is maliki fear?

i think if somebody heard what you're saying here, from the political context and it seems so obvious that the leader of iraq would reach out to the community and particularly coming out of the tremendous success of sunnis, rising up and destroying or kicking out the predecessor to this particular group, to isis when they were called al qaeda in iraq. why would it be that he would pursue the policies he did? why would it be he would want to put forth such a partisan approach and ethnically partisan approach in a country that has been that destabilized? >> maliki was in exile for many, many years because he was shia during the saddam hussein years. when he was rounding up and executing and imprisoning lots of leaders and people he thought were not going to work with him in his regime, and when maliki returned to iraq, it was time i think he felt and others around him felt the shia should grab

the majority of power. the problem is it doesn't work in iraq that way. in a democratic system and you had a series of democratic elections in iraq over the last many years, you have to finds a way to unite the power centers and shia and sunni in some type of uneasy alignment so everybody's interest can be served. the oil resources, for instance, the proceeds from them can be distributed in a fair basis and that's been a major problem. if you don't have that leadership from iraq, then you get the other forces, these extremist forces come into play who argue for total victory of one side. this barbaric evil statement, series of statements from the isis leadership that they want to fight the shia and defeat the shia is completely outrageous and that's what the baghdad government is facing. he comes out of that environment. he's not proving to be in any measure an enlightened leader. he's part of the problem now. >> do you see any chance he will

step up? today he fired four of the top security officers and there was a disturbing report from the new york times that he's rejecting reconciliation efforts and making speeches, prallying young shiite men and falling into fits of anger. >> i read the same quts norkz time article you did. this fits the pattern of maliki. when he fought in basra, a very bitter fight, he was a front line war time commander. he seems to be on the front lines now but he's not doing the right thing. he's only mobilizing the shia community. he's not taking the opportunity to try to integrate some of the sunni elements into that wartime coalition. he's just going to perpetuate the divisions. his leadership is a fame e fail leadership. >> thank you. >> today u.s. officials captured a key suspect in connection with the september 11th attack in benghazi, libya. we have got the details next on

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♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ the suspected ring leader of the deadly attack on u.s. mission in benghazi is on his way to the u.s. to face justice. he was captured sunday in a secret raid by u.s. special forces. appearing at an event on the economy in pittsburgh, the president took a moment to highlight the arrest and said it sends a signal around the world. >> when americans are attacked no matter how long it takes, we will find those responsible and we will bring them to justice. we will find you. and i want to make sure that everybody around the world hears

that message very clearly. >> we will find you. the fbi has already filed charges, a three count criminal complaint filed in the d.c. federal court last july. convictions on those charges alone relating to the death of chris stevens and others could mean the death penalty or life in prison. with the suspect set to undergo intensive interrogation, eric holder said in a statement today, there could be more charges to come. next on "now", this is called the most depressing graph, why the united states is pumping big bucks into the system but not getting much back. you've reached the age where you've learned a thing or two. this is the age of knowing what you're made of. so why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex.

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how mitch mcconnell described it back in 2012. where does the best system in the world rank compared to other developed countries in the world? dead last. we are the finest one in the world except for the other ones. a new report by the commonwealth fund combines three surveys of doctors and adults with health outcome data from 11 developed countries. the findings, the u.s. doesn't just rank worst in the overall success of the health care system, a much higher proportion of americans nearly double the rates of any other country go without needed care because of the cost. that means 40% of us choose not to see a doctor because we can't afford it. but at least our market base best in the world health care system is more efficient than the european socialists, right? not right. the u.s. also ranks last in health care efficiency, meaning patients and doctors support spending a lot of time on paperwork related to medical bills much more than any other countries. the area where the u.s. is off

the charts is health inequality, people of below average incomes forego care because of cost. when you hear america doesn't ration, remember that graph. we ration but do it by income. if there's a silver lining, those who have access to health care, it's fairly effective. american doctors do a good job warning patients about health risk and encouraging exercise. but some americans are simply refusing to listen. refusing to use the most powerful effective treatments the american medical system ever developed and refusal to take these medications doesn't just hurt them but hurts everyone, outbreaks of illnesses that were defeated so long ago they sound like whooping cough. that's next on "now."

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california declared an epidemic of whooping cough. whooping cough. if a whooping cough epidemic in 2014 sounds strange. that because a whooping cough epidemic in 2014 is really change. the spike in anti-vaccination backlash of rising of illnesses like whooping cough here. >> hundreds and thousands of people got whooping cough and we figured out a way to solve that, give people the vaccine. by the '70s only 1,000 people are getting it per year. it's now 15 times what it was in the 1970s. there are a lot of reasons for that but a big one is people stopped vaccinateding their kids. there are a handful of celebrities who have committed themselves to telling people the vaccines rather than saving lives are really unsafe. so when it comes to vaccines,

stop listening and start looking at the evidence and vaccinated your kid. >> joining me now is assistant professor at the new york school of medicine and host of "all in" chris hayes. i think people can think of this as an individual question, if they don't want to take a vaccine, that is their problem. you can see with an outbreak like whooping cough, that's no it. can you walk us through the idea of vaccines? >> exactly. it isn't an individual problem. when you get a vaccine you protect yourself and people around you. i get the vaccine because if i get sick, i might not realize it and i can still pass it on to my patients. the immunity, the idea there is 100 people sitting in a room together. if all of them have been vaccinated except one, that one person is still safe because they can't get the disease from the other people, they are all pretty much vaccinated. if you have the opposite extreme

where 99 people are not vak sated and one person is. those 99 people can still pass it on to that person. the reason is that vaccines are not foolproof. not 100% effective. the more people that are vaccinated, the more the entire public is safe. the fewer people vaccinated the more likely it is to get these type of epidemics. >> i've been reading early american history and the thing that comes up again and again in all of this is illness. you have small pox outbreaks and people dying from measles. vaccines are almost the closest we've come to magic. they've arguably done more than any other scientific advance to improve people's lives. i keep thinking of talking to these folks and these folks saying we figured out how to solve this and we stopped doing it. why does it happen? >> i think there's a number of reasons. these high profile folks, jenny mccarthy jeef among them have had a real effect.

in the panic virus, talks about the how the misinformation spreads like a virus, like a virus, people pass along through the networks of contact that they have. so there's that. i also think the fact of the matter is, the relationship between patient and doctor is a complex strange one that's mediated by this kind of expertise. i think we live right now in a period of time in which there's a lot of distrust of experts but also i think the advent of the internet and different ways. it's amazing how many doctors i talk to who talk about the shift in how a patient comes into their room now. right? they are coming to the room having spent an hour or the internet. >> or much much more. >> with all sorts of ideas about what the diagnosis is and what test should be done. you're taking care of your own health and being pro active. at a another level, it's beginning to break down the nature of the authority of that relationship and all kinds of interesting ways. >> some of this is related to

the rise of autism, a lot of this is based on bad science, suggesting there could have been a link. there's also the fear. there has been a sharp rise in autism and we don't know why. in the absence of that knowledge, people insert and desperately hunt for explanations. >> i agree uncertainty is an issue but there have been studies that show autism is not linked to vaccines. in terms of what you were talking about, both are related. people see these things on the internet about the link and become more skeptical about the medical community. one of the people who actually kind of contributed to that rumor, one of the key players in the whole anti-vaccine debate is somebody who said there was a link there and that was a physician. that might make people wonder, if he was wrong, misrepresenting the truth, why should we believe the other physicians? maybe they don't know either. i think it's a great thing that people actually do look at the internet to find out more information but we can't control what is put on the internet.

not all information is equal. some of it is accurate for vaccines, there's a ton of studies to support its use to show it saves lives. in this case people see just as much anti-vaccine information. >> you do have -- so the physician you're mentioning there, he is no longer allowed to practice medicine. and this is a very easily disproven conspiracy but the internet doesn't disprove the conspiracy, it just sits there and things ricochet and never get updated. that is part of the problem. >> there's something fascinating about the trajectory. it was published in lancet which is a peer reviewed medical journal. and that was the kind of bedrock of evidence upon which this entire tower of misinformation was built. you pulled out that bedrock and the tower still stands, right? it doesn't -- so what happens is

this trajectory and it's amazing we are still encountering this problem because part of me naively thought once this guy's article was retracted and he was essentially kicked out of the medical profession, we would see is crest down. >> some of it, i come from california where a lot -- the whooping cough epidemic is centered. there's a deep mistrust in some communities of the artificial. there's a deep mistrust and belief that the body in the pure state is the body in the best state. a lot of what's going wrong with us with cancer and other things is related to a sort of lurch away from what is artificial that feels like -- >> people have to remember, there are risks to doing anything, there are risks to vaccines and medications and also risks to not doing

anything. you can be more susceptible to these diseases and die from them. >> does the pendulum swing back. in the early part, you can do it cost free because of hurt immunity. you might know someone who has whooping cough. do people in the face of this absence when kids are getting sick and you think i'm now confronted with the consequences of this decision, it will be interesting to see if we see the p pendulum swing back. >> there's also a question to what degree are people confronted and what degree do they connect to the lack of vaccination. this is why a lot of states and schools have mandatory vaccination laws because this is not about you. but that's really where you get into the fight because people feel that's a government interfering with how they raise their children. >> people may not much of a fear

about these diseases because you don't think about it that much because vaccines have brought the numbers down so much. it's not something we have to worry about all the time. i agree about that. but unfortunately the rise in numbers is really alarming. >> on the political side of this, i look at this particular issue where it is something where you can literally just inject and you will not die from this thing. if we're starting to get this wrong, i don't know what we're going to do about climate change. >> yes, that is a very good point. we should say in the overall scheme of things, like the trend is bad but even those numbers that -- we're talking 6%, 7%, this is not, it is not a rush towards the exit. so we should keep it -- the problem is -- it's a worrying mental process and also i think the analogy so climate change is apt here in so far as the problem gets worst longer it --

the problem increases. so the risk -- the risk that we are taking on in climate, we're assuming some kind of tail risk of catastrophe we're not sure about. and what we see with the way epidemics work is that each marginal person who doesn't get it is pushes up much more than just one degree, right? the amount of sort of incidents of that line. >> thank you both so much for being here. >> be sure to catch chris tonight and every week night on "all in" at 8:00 p.m. eastern. so much for beer, wings and nachos, kevin mccarthy and raul labrador share dessert. we'll have a battle preview just ahead. ♪ ♪ yeah

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republicans vote buy secret ballotto replace eric cantor. it is a contest in name only. mccarthy appears to have locked up the votes after scaring off more established challenges. >> i tried for three days to get jeb henserling and jordan to run for this position. they wouldn't do it. they each have their own reasons for not doing it. i didn't think it was appropriate for a member of leadership to asend to the thro throne. >> that's quite a pitch. i'm maybe the third best guy for the guy. the intrinsic weakness was exposed when the tea party favorite didn't have basic contact information for many of his colleagues such as direct cell phone numbers.

labrador's aid was calling the office and asking for it. far more interesting is a race to exceed him for the whip. it's general you winly not clear who will win. joining me now is ben dom nish. let me ask about a question with both leaders. do they matter for the republican party and its direction or do they just matter in terms of which individual politicians' career will get boosted? >> to a certain extent when you're looking at the situation, it is an example of the republican leadership for getting nothing and lettering nothi learning nothing. even as there are different people clammering within the base and technocratic groups

within washington for change, for more vision and more reform, they are essentially just switching horses mid stream with a guy like mccarthy who isn't viewed as floor manager and isn't viewed as a good vote counter and guy who really gets his man when it comes to a really tough vote. he's a california quarterback type who nobody really hates. that's why his ascent is a foregone conclusion and i don't think it represents a change. it really represents the party ignoring critiques and treating the loss as if it's a local story and trying to move on. the whip race is a little bit more interesting. there are different factors at work there and really if it comes to the second ballot, i think there's going to be a lot of different people vying for votes within the scenario, likely a situation where he is trying to work with different people to build up his support and i think there's different

factors involved there. there's distrust on the part of some conservatives for scalise. >> i want to go something you said about the republican party leadership learning nothing. they see this as more than just sort of an ascension, as an opportunity to show that the right wing of the house republican conference doesn't have power. the "washington post" reported yesterday that quote, some of mccarthy's backers welcoming labrador's bid because they believe it will demonstrate how much or how little the conservative wing has. some mckarngthy supporters were debating the far right to put up a challenger. if mccarthy challenges lab ra dore does that prove the tea party does not have or far conservative wing does not have the power and clout they thought they did?

>> it will be interesting in the context of the other factors where the establishment is taking on the more conservative factions of the party, obviously the race in mississippi obviously, the conversations that have happened following a number of the senate primaries, but one of the things is that is important to remember about this, look back to 2006 when john boehner easily dispatched with a challenge from mike pence, who at the time was a younger member, i think that's more of the comparison here. it's designed to be something that elevates labrador a little bit within the conservative caucus. he doesn't need to get a significant number of votes within the context. i do think the lesson that a lot of people will take away from this, republicans were given an opportunity to maybe go in a different direction and not -- none of the significant established conservatives as you said had the stones to stand up and take on mccarthy. what that says about where the party goes from here will be interesting. i don't think there are a lot of people who view mccarthy as a

guy who will take the speaker ship in the future. it's the reaction they have in the role and whether he tries to in the same way eric cantor did in the past change the way he's viewed by the base and caucus. >> let me push you in your interpretation of what the republican party should have learned from eric cantor's race. you had a good analysis the next day after his loss saying that what you see there and good candidates win and bad candidates lose. this is a race where he lost because 36,000 people in the district of 700,000 people voted for the other guy. in a way i think it would be strange for the house republican conference or republican party to draw tremendous lessons from that. it's a very small group of people that in a race that seems to have tipped in an unexpected way. i think certainly mccarthy was out there the day afterward telling the same groups that backed cantor, telling the chamber, don't worry, everything

is going to be okay. it's important to see the message used against cantor was one that is palatable in an area where people feel the leadership of the republican party is no longer speaking to them. they see that from one side and on the other on the populist revolt side. i think this is an example of the party basically choosing not to listen to either faction. to keep on going the same way they've been going. and we'll see whether that leads to certain outcomes down the road in terms of backlash that they can receive. >> that's fascinating. the other fascinating thing will be to see in a couple of years, over the next two years, how the republican congressional conference tries to set up on whoever they think will be the next nominee. thank you very much for being here today. >> thanks very much. >> that is all for now. alex is back tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. the ed show is up next.

good evening, americans, welcome to the ed show, live from new york. let's get to work. >> ladies and gentlemen, we got him. >> these people are still out to get us. this war isn't over. >> do you agree with me that bombing should happen, should happen? >> yes. >> advising president bush when the u.s. invaded in 2003? >> we have no ambition in iraq except to remove a threat. >> we got him. >> and restore control of that authority to its own people. >> i'm not a military expert -- >> paul wolfowitz, some called him the architect of the original war in iraq. >> if i were the architect, it would have been run differently and handled very differently. >> the specific issue of