the team is going to be floating down the san antonio river on barges and attend a ceremony to honor their fifth championship. congrats to them. that's it for edition of "way t early." "morning joe" starts right now. good morning. it's wednesday, june 18, a nice day out. >> welcome to "morning joe." it's light out. with us onset, former communications director for george w. bush nicolle wallace. good morning. good to see you. >> former treasury secretary steve rattner. in washington senior political editor and xous correspondent pour the "huffington post" sam stein. hi, thomas. >> thomas, too. >> so joyful. >> i go on vacation tonight.

>> that's what it is. >> what do we have going on? >> we have a lot going on, a lot of news out there. >> absolutely. chocked full. i wish we had seven hours. >> no. >> this is what my grandma would say when somebody is trying to put ten pounds of sugar in a five-pound bag. she would be talking about dresses women shouldn't be wearing. anyway, a lot going on. >> under the cover of the night the u.s. military captures a key figure on the u.s. attack on benghazi ending a two-year manhunt. if the white house knew where he was, some are asking what took so lopg to get him. hillary clinton's book tower/presidential campaign continues. she's still answering questions about benghazi. she's saying her congressional testimony was a product of the fog of war.

the fog of war? i thought they held that on capitol hill. surprising polls shows her approval ratings continuing to drop. she's in the mid 40s. the book tour not what the clinton camp were hoping for. this isn't about selling books. >> this is a campaign. >> just not going well. mary barra back on the hill. the gm ceo expected to face another tough round of congressional questions today. will her answers satisfy lawmakers? first let's get to some of the headlines today. ukraine's interior minister says a bombing is to blame for an explosion at a pipeline carrying natural gas from russia to europe. the blast sent a fireball more than 200 yards into the air. the fire was extinguished after a few hours and gas supplies to the west were not affected. they're investigating what they call an act of terrorism. the explosion came a day after russia said it would stop piping

gas into ukraine unless kiev paid for deliveries in advance. >> this is a country at a war. this follows up on the bombing of the airline. getting worse and worse. >> we'll have to talk about that, especially hillary clinton addressing the issue of ukraine and putin. >> we're learning more this morning about how the irs managed to lose tens of thousands of e-mails from 2009 to 2011. stop shaking your head, nicole. >> i had an itch. >> how the irs managed to lose -- >> i lost all information over the past five or six years. there is an explanation. >> it would cost $10 million to have e-mail systems that actually save more than a certain amount at a time. >> they didn't have a full e-mail retention system. >> come on? are you really believing this? do you really believe this?

>> i believe everything i read in "the new york times." >> do you believe lois lerner, her e-mails would magically disappear? >> they apparently had a situation in which you could only retain a certain amount of e-mails. >> i think it's possible. >> i have a yahoo! account that has every e-mail i've ever sent. >> this is nonsense. everybody around this table could go back and find e-mails. i use mac. my e-mail address is mac.com. i can go back to 2009, 2008. >> if you spill the soda on your computer. >> these are forever. >> don't the people at the irs have bodies at nsa and they can go to that hit in utah and dig these out. don't you think the nsa has her

e-mails. >> usa reports seven hard drive crashes, reusing and erasing backup tapes every six months. the report also says employees made their own decisions as to which e-mails would be part of the official record. you brought up the best point on "way too early" this morning. he said i wish the irs was as good with us as we are apparently with them, with their receipts and e-mails. >> we're not going to be good with them on this. one of the most important people in the agency. i've never heard of anything like this before, except when al gore lost a lot of e-mails right before his presidential campaign. democrats aren't good with e-mails. forget the political implications. also for the irs themself, they demand so much from us and they can't even retain e-mails for a couple years for one of the most

important figures now in the middle of the largest irs scandal. >> the very agency that means you stuff your wallet with all your receipts, tape them on a piece of paper and scan them in case you're audited. i don't buy it. >> if we're being audited and we say we lost all this and there's suspicious behavior? what happens to us around this table? we get thrown in jail. my question is who is going to get thrown in jail for this? >> oh, my goodness. >> what do you mean oh my goodness? i guarantee if you didn't have receipts and you were in the middle of an investigation launched by the irs and you said my hard drive crashed. >> why would it cost them $10 million to be able to retain a certain amount of e-mails in this day and age? i don't get that. >> we use the word lost like you

lost your homework. this is a poll seechlt they had a policy of not retaining e-mails past six months. >> campaigns retain e-mails in hard copy. >> in fact, they have gone to people lois learning was e-mailing with to try to archive -- >> i'm not here to defend -- >> can i ask you a question? well-known television personality is out to repair his image after a rough hearing on capitol hill. dr. mehmet oz was asking for help fighting internet marketers who use his likeness to sell weight loss products. i was looking forward to hearing him testify. but senators played clips from his show talking about green coffee beans suggesting he is actually part of the problem. take a look. >> you may think magic is make believe, but this little bean

has scientists saying they found a magic weight loss cure for every body type. this miracle pill can burn fat fast. >> why would you cheapen your show? >> in intent to engage viewers, i use flowery language, very passionate, but ended up being incendiary. >> i don't get why you need to say this stuff because you know it's not true. >> dr. oz says he believes in what he discusses on tv. he says he never endorsed a brand name and internet marketers use his words to sell diet products without his permission. >> what are these green magic --? these green coffee beans are magic? >> i don't know but i want some. >> it's a stimulant filled with caffeine. >> why are they green? >> i think it's what they make from green tea, right? >> no, green coffee. >> i only bought them once.

>> did you buy them because you saw them on dr. oz. >> i like dr. oz. >> i like him a lot. he's come here with really good advice. >> if he's got magic coffee beans, i want some of that. seriously. >> magic mushrooms, you want those, too? >> i have those. i have those. >> it's a music thing. >> we all make mistakes, okay? come on. we all make mistakes. >> like you actually agreed to work on this show for seven years. >> that's true. i did. >> people forgive you for that. >> i didn't think twice about it either. >> what's that all about? >> 21 months after the deadly attack in benghazi, one of the suspected ring leaders is in u.s. custody. this is strange. >> u.s. special forces carried out a raid over the weekend, about two dozen military commanders and fbi agents were involved after months of planning. ahmed abu khatallah was quickly

taken to the "u.s.s. new york" to be questioned. he is suspected to be connected with el sharia. he is facing trial in the u.s. and could be put to death if convicted. he said the attack was not planned but developed from a protest over an anti islam video. >> which nobody believes. >> and he claimed to have no role in the violence at that time consulate. >> this is really strange, though. the obama administration is facing questions over why it took nearly two years to make this arrest of a suspect where everybody knew where he was. this guy reports -- he was hanging out in benghazi, at cafes bragging about the incident. >> giving interviews. >> and giving interviews and mocking the united states saying they were not strong enough to come after him and the government. remember barack obama said that he was going to -- justice would be served? >> it's really strange.

also president obama, of course, says the arrest sends a clear message to the world. >> when americans are attacked, no matter how long it takes we will find those responsible and we will bring them to justice. and that's a message i said the day after it happened and regardless of how long it takes, we will find you. >> sometimes he just doesn't have to say certain things. like the bowe bergdahl episode, that could have gone so much more smoothly. it could have quietly come into the country -- >> are you insinuating this sore than genuine? >> i don't understand why he sits there and he goes no matter how long it takes to bring them to justice, we will find them. we knew where he was. he was sipping lattes in benghazi starbucks, if they have those over there. >> i would like to raise my

hand. >> go ahead, thomas. >> it took ten years to get osama bin laden. knew where he was for a long time. >> he was not sipping lattes. >> i am not done. gitmo is not some place we're looking the beef up. we're actually letting people out. unless we have the evidence to bring these people here to try them in the american justice system it's going to take -- it's 21 months. it's going to take that time. we did not get osama bin laden for ten years. >> the reason they give for this is they did not want to go in there and destabilize the libyan government until they knew it had destabilized itself. they wanted to find the moment -- >> find the special moment. >> and the president of the united states, the commander in chief said no matter how long it takes, let these terrorists know that we will find them.

we will hunt them down and we will wait two years for that special moment. >> listen. we did a debate in the country about what it would look like if we treated terrorism as a law enforcement matter. that debate took place in 2004. this is what it looks like. when you treat terrorism as a law enforcement matter, this is what it looks like. >> this guy is going -- he shouldn't get read his miranda rights. he's not an american citizen. >> i don't believe he was read his miranda rights. he's going to be tried in the u.s. courts. >> let's bring in nbc news national security analyst. you former director of the national counterterrorism center michael leiter. why wait if we knew where he was? what do you think was behind

that, if anything? >> i thinkive you've touched on a number of them. three things. one, you want to find a time that is safe so when delta force special forces guys go in, it's not a huge fire fight. second, there is an investigation going on, making sure they can hold this guy for the long term. third, there is the issue of stability in libya. if we know the reconstruction in libya has gone very, very poorly. so any involvement of u.s. troops on the ground is really going to cause a geopolitical instability in libya. in that sense it's those three factors. should it have been six months? i'm sure everyone would like to have it go faster, but i think it's a stretch to say this is a reversal back to pre 9/11 terrorism as a law enforcement matter. >> now the question of what to do with him and the controversy over that, which i have a feeling there will be different points of view at this table. what are the plans for him that we know? >> he'll come back to the united

states, be charged in federal court in the district of columbia. as i understand it, he's going to take a very lengthy trip back to the united states. that's going to give them sufficient time, twoebl between seven and ten days of interrogations, that will be combined interrogations -- >> michael, sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off. the first guest in the history of "morning joe" that i ever cut off. did eric holder not try this before with khalid sheikh mohammed? trying him in an american court and that didn't work. we're getting guys who are terrorists, enemy combatants, this would be like dragging a nazi ss soldier off the battlefield and trying him in a courtroom in kansas. what concerns do you have? what concerns do other people in

the intel community have about us bringing enemy combatant terrorists to the united states and affording them protections that men and women in uniform, constitutional rights, have been fighting for for american citizens, not terrorists who kill american citizens? >> first, i don't think we should elevate this guy to khalid sheikh mohammed. more importantly, joe, if we look at the record, federal courts have actually done thus far a much better job of convicting people and giving people longer sentences for terrorism than the military tribunals are. we can blame that on how the military tribunals are set up, that law and the like. the fact is the federal courts have worked really well for this and the military tribunals haven't. we haven't had anyone convicted in a tribunal whose conviction was not ultimately overturned by an appeals court. the federal courts i think are a

pretty good system. from the intelligence community perspective, the important thing is he's interrogated, that he's not immediately turned over to a lawyer and kauai et cetera down. that's not what is happening in this case. >> given what michael has just said, what would be the problem with actually using our federal court system to do its job? would you have him go back to gitmo? would you have him go to gitmo instead? >> wng we should be limited to seven days for being able to interrogate this guy. >> depends on what the goals are. if the obama administration has counterterrorism and preventing future attacks at the center of the attack, i would hope they would take as much time as needed. our southern district of new york has a two decades' long history of trying terrorists. i think we do have that as an option. he's made no psych rhett that

this is his policy objective. it divide, frankly, the republican party more than president obama and his followers. there is history, especially in this city, of trying terrorists here. >> all right. one more story before we go to break. brand new polls by nbc news and the "wall street journal," president obama is now tied for the lowest job approval rating of his presidency at 41%. also hitting new lows on foreign policy. 37% of americans approve of his approach to issues overseas. and a record high of 57% disapprove. it raises questions about the remainder of his term. 42% believe he can still lead and get things done compared to 54% who do not. just 11% rate the administration as very competent while 31% say it's not competent at all. those numbers are slightly lower than president bush after

hurricane katrina and just 25% of americans believe the country is headed in the right direction compared to 63% who do not. that makes nine straight polls where less than 30% believe the country is on the right pact. >> sam stein, it's time to try something different. >> interesting for hillary clinton. >> we'll talk next about hillary clinton's poll numbers also dropping, too. this is a radical thought. we were all inspired by barack obama in 2004 in boston. there's not a red state america, not a blue state america. i think maybe he should go back to the 2004 playbook. >> and do what? >> i know the republicans are awful, blah, blah, blah, blah. he's president of the united states. bring them together. >> he's got to try something the last two years to get things done. these are troubling numbers, not for president obama, but for the

united states of america. we do not want one failed presidency after another. >> i'm assuming they are trying whatever they can to get those numbers better. it's not in their interest to keep them this low. the hit he took this month is in the foreign policy realm. he's down about eight percentage points from two months ago in terms of the public's perception. >> what do you think is driving that, sam? >> bowe bergdahl? >> iraq, bowe bergdahl, the situation in syria. you can go down the list. it's been at continuous list of crisis after crisis. i think they would look and hope it's temporary and a few wins in the foreign policy sphere might tick the numbers back up. i don't see anything in the horizon, especially in iraq, giving them any reprieve for this. it's tough times at the white house. >> still ahead, we're going to show you the new poll numbers on hillary clinton.

is there anything she can say to put the benghazi issue to rest? >> she has interesting -- she said it was the fog of war. remember when she landed, was it in bosnia and she was under fire. this happens to her a lot of times. also ahead, the one issue that was important enough to unite the two men who argued against each other in bush v goer, david boys and ted olson will be here with their new book. senator tom coburn will be here -- >> i like him. >> i don't agree with him though. plus, is stress literally -- who wrote this? >> is stress causing mika to lose her mind? we first, here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill, kind of warm and muggy in new york city this morning? i'm liking it. >> summer. >> also more severe weather in

the midwest. we feel so bad and are thinking about our friends in the midwest this morning. >> nebraska and iowa can't catch a break. our mini heat wave on the east coast. we expect the heat. but the tornadoes we can deal without. another big one yesterday in nebraska and mostly over rural areas. this one was from pretty far away over the open field. it did move over the town of coal ridge, nebraska, the northern end of the town. we're still waiting to get the gaj reports as the sun comes up to see how bad it was. here is the summary from yesterday. upstate new york was hit hard, too. last night windstorms swept from buffalo across the new york state thruway. a lot of power outages. storms in iowa causing problems, wind damage with those. we'll watch some of these storms continuing to drift over areas like chicago, detroit, cleveland and even pittsburgh this morning. later on today, here is the numbers. 65 million people at risk of

severe storms. anywhere in the yellow from the northern plains again right through the southern great lakes into the northern ohio valley. the areas that aren't going to get the storms are going to be oppressively hot. a record high in washington, d.c. yesterday. today it's going to be about 98 in richmond, 96 in d.c. your heat index about 101 during the middle of the afternoon. those temperatures in the dangerous category. new york city, you also have a chance of seeing your first 90-degree day of this early summer season. we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." i spent my entire childhood

seeing the world in reverse, and i loved every minute of it. but then you grow up and there's no going back. but it's okay, it's just a new kind of adventure. and really, who wants to look backwards when you can look forward?

beautiful shot of washington, d.c., capitol hill, the sun coming up this morning. what could be wrong?

>> nothing could be wrong. >> let's take a look at the morning papers, shall we? "the washington post." an explosion tore through a world cup viewing area in nigeria. now at least a dozen are feared dead. officials haven't released the exact number of killed and injured. witnesses say there were many fatalities. nobody claimed responsibility but the extremists boka haram behind several attacks in the region. mary barra is going to testify before a house panel and talk about changes to the company's culture after it went more than a decade before addressing the safety issues that led to the deaths of at least, mika, 13 people. gm recalled more than 17 million vehicles since the beginning of the year. >> all right. the times. there's a possible link between the stress hormone cortisol and memory loss. research from the university of iowa say elevated levels of

cortisol can result in memory lapses. the hormone can block the synapses that help us store and recall information. sleep deprivation can also affect memory. i'm going to go home. >> where are we? what's my name? >> "los angeles times," game of throwns is the most pirated show. the episode picked up more than 1.5 million views after the 12 hours it aired. that number expected to rise to seven million. ""game of thrones"" is also the most pirated show -- >> what is the show? >> people watch it. >> there are gnomes and hell vs. >> it's highly political.

>> it's excellent. >> nicolle, do you watch this? >> i don't. i don't like dragons. >> dragons and gnomes. this is what i'm going to do on a sunday night. >> "game of thrones." >> is it like "lord of the rings?" >> they're fighting for power, only three dragons. >> it just doesn't work. i'm sorry. i don't like it. >> i haven't even matched "mad men" this season. i heard it was bad? >> you should be watching "mad men." >> nicolle? >> it starts very slow and very bad, but ends well. >> does it really? >> do people watch television? a former cast member from "jersey shore" was arrested

yesterday at a new jersey tanning salon -- >> the situation. the situation was charged with simple assault following a dispute at the tanning establishment his family owns. he's set to star in a new reality show about the same tanning salon. he posted bail and was released from jail last night looking like a cantaloupe. >> do you go to a tanning salon? what is a tanning salon? people lie in those beds with the light bulbs still? they do not. that's very bad for you. people shouldn't do that. >> there are some people at this network that actually have tanning beds in their homes. i'm not going to tell you their names. the "wall street journal" poll shows some mixed results for hillary clinton if she runs for president. she remains a clear front-runner

among democrats with three-quarters saying they would likely vote for her. get this. this is such a low number. her approval rating is in the 60s and 70s not long ago. only 38% said they would support her. 37% said they would not. that includes 70% of republicans and 40% of the critical independent voters. hillary clinton experienced a big drop in approval rating, just 44% of americans few her favorably. she had an approval rating in the 70s, steve rattner. steve, look into that camera. we're going to pretend you're at a studio in washington. steve keeps turning around looking at me which would be the normal thing to do. >> we're not normal. >> i want to look at the back of your head. this is tv magic. she was in the 70s, steve, at the end of 2012. you're like the mayor of hillary land, of course.

what has happened that she's dropped from 70% approval rating to 38% approval rating in a year and a half? >> first, two things. she's out on the book tour. all of the past history, everything from monica to benghazi to everything that's happened to her that people aren't happy about has come out and being talked about. the second thing, she's a political figure again. in 2012 she was still a foreign policy official. so now people are saying to themselves -- 40% of this country would vote for anybody who is a republican. 40% of this country is going to vote for anybody who is a democrat. the fight is over in the middle. that's where she'll be waging. >> that's why being at 38%, nicolle, very low. >> i have a totally different theer tri. i think the clintons are always viewed in a political context. i think she's always been viewed as a political figure. i think during the first president obama term she was viewed as the more competent administrator of foreign policy

and of her agency, while they were bungling the health care laws, she was viewed as competently managing the state department. now i think her numbers are most directly correlated to president obama's plunging numbers on foreign policy. i think her numbers are coming down because people are seeing the effects of his stated desire to retreat from the world's hot spots. i think people have a lot of discomfort with that. >> except she's on record as having been on the other side, particularly in syria of some of those discussions. >> i think that held her up for a while. you can't deny her numbers have plunged in concert with his. his have, too. >> you have syria, the russia reset, all these other things. she was secretary of state for the four years preceding what now many americans consider to be a very bad foreign policy situation. >> result. before we go to politico, look at this. dr. oz, front page of "the daily news" as well, big fat lies.

that's serious stuff. >> really, i was surprised because i was looking forward to hearing his testimony and it turned into a completely different story. these weight loss fat burning pills, i have teen daughters. it's all the rage. it's really scary what kids will buy into, and this is wrong. i'm glad it was brought up. i was out in utah last week and had this guy come up and try to sell me supplements. he had them in a briefcase. >> seriously? >> this was at the mitt romney event. he comes up with a suitcase, he opens it up, he's trying to tell me these weight loss supplements. do you know who it was? it was mike allen. mike allen was out in utah making a lot of money. a lot of billionaires buying his weight loss supplements. now he's here to talk about hillary clinton. >> she mentioned several times

in her interviews, come on, guys, she keeps talking about hard choices and pointing at her book. it's a theme that comes up every five minutes during her book tour. yesterday the former secretary of state, mike, was asked if she felt responsible for the benghazi situation and the loss for americans. here is what she said. >> i took responsibility for being at the head of the state department at that time. that doesn't mean that i made every decision because i obviously did not. but it does mean that i feel very deeply and have personally about the losses that we incurred. we have to keep trying to figure out how we can be in dangerous places. i'm not one who says there's danger, so your responsibility is to get us out. no. my responsibility is to do the best job that i can leading a diverse group, relying on security professionals so we can be in the hard places to help make the hard choices.

>> mike allen, i don't know. maybe she should have done a children's book. i'm serious. i've never seen a book tour go off like this. it's like she's in the middle of a tough presidential campaign. >> is it as bad as the way joe is characterizing it? >> i'm not saying it's bad. i've never seen a book tour where there's a different story every day. >> this is the risk of doing a serious book, a book that is backward looking when you want your candidate to be forward looking. yesterday secretary clinton did great. she had rocky reviews the first rate. got into a huff with terry gross on public radio. yesterday she did a long town hall, a format she's familiar

with from when she was secretary of state, got more relaxed as she went along. as mika suggested again and again like a good media trained author, kept referring to the title of her book, "hard choices." 45 minutes later did a tough interview with fox news where most of the questions were about benghazi. her team says they're very pleased with sales. 100,000 books sold in the first five days. she's going to go from here, is going to hopefully move the topic to other -- the conversation to other topics. when she says there's more to know about benghazi, republicans say what else is there to know? maggie haberman reports that the house may still try to call her as a witness. >> sam stein, there's another way to look at this. maybe as far as the book tour goes, you do it early enough that you get all the tough questions out of the way and it's a practice run for what happens a year from now. better to get the tough questions now and figure out how

she answers them, study up. maybe this is like spring training for the clinton camp. >> you scrape off the rust, so to speak. i think you've seen that happening in realtime. admittedly her earlier interviews were really rocky. the npr interview on gay marriage was a bit bizarre in how contentious it got over very simple questions that any politician should expect if they're on book tour, let alone running a campaign. she was asked about gay marriage in the cnn town hall yesterday. the answer was much more risk, made much more sense i think a lot of what she's doing now if you look at it through the political lens is to get the rust off, get more comfortable in front of crowds and in tough interviews so if she does decide to run, she'll hit the ground running. >> what about gay marriage? >> she had thoughts that were out of time and she's solved.

her rankling people in the gay rights community. her answer was much crisper the second time around. >> i said this about mitt romney before when he would change positions on social issues. he changed positions in his 50s. how do you go 50, 55 years and then evolve at that stage. i don't know. these politicians, barack obama and hillary clinton who have evolved on gay rights and gay marriage in their 60s. if you're like 65, you're evolving? what what happened the first 64 years of your life? i'm not trying to be facetious. i don't get it. it's political. it's so blindly political. it wasn't safe to do it through the first 55 or 62 years.

so suddenly it becomes safe, so she now knows what her position is. my position has been my position and will be my position i'm sure for years to come. >> that's the question. did she have this position when she was in the clinton administration as secretary of state and didn't say it because of political reasons. certainly that seems to be the case with barack obama who filled out a questionnaire on this matter and never evolved until 2012. on this topic it's fair to say the country -- the viewpoints of the country have evolved dramatically in the past two decades. we should also not make politicians hold the same exact viewpoint their entire life. they can change. >> sam, thank you. politico's mike allen, thank you very much. coming up, we'll show you the amazing save from yesterday's world cup action. plus one sportscaster tries to break down the game of football in a way only an american could. >> are the guys kick with both

legs? >> most everybody kicks with both legs. >> "morning joe" sports is next. bill have you seen my keys anywhere? i'll help you look. maybe you left them in the bathroom again. it's just the strangest thing... the warning signs of alzheimer's disease, may be right in front of you. it's alright baby. for help and information, call the alzheimer's association or visit alz.org/10signs

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welcome back. time for sports. the world cup, straight to the pitch. brazil and mexico. a new hero born for mexico.

>> amazing. guillermo ochoa. this guy helped the mexican team hold off the host country to a scoreless draw. this leaves both teams with four points after two games in group a. brazil is ahead on goal differential going into the decisive match. for people who don't understand how world cup advances, the wins and draws you get scored by points. >> if you win, you get three points, if you draw you get one point. the goal differential. four goals in each group. only two get through. brazil is supposed to win this thing and mexico -- mexico -- talk about the little engine that could, that was an incredible performance. a draw is huge for mexico. >> yesterday belgium came from behind to beat algeria 2-1 and russia tieing south korea 1-1.

soccer still a growing sport in this country, all trying to learn the rules. americans, we don't know a lot about it. >> mika does. >> that's why we'll give media host mike francesa -- >> come on, baby. let's hear it. >> i saw a guy make a winning kick with a lefty kick. are there guys that kick with both legs? >> most everybody kicks with both legs. >> not a strong leg, they kick with both legs? >> usually, except sometimes lefties, mike, a little dominance. >> there's not a power leg. they each use both legs. >> normally use both legs. there can be a predominant leg -- >> when a righty has to be able to kick with his left leg? >> absolutely. >> i wonder if a lot of guys kick with both legs. soefr body kicks with both legs. >> oh, my god. he needs to stop.

>> i played soccer a lot with my family. my dad forced us to play, a have strategic game. only right leg. i could never get the second -- of course it's both legs. even i know that, mike francesa. >> the must-read op eds are up next. >> what was he really saying. >> he has minions working for him in the south of france running around and they're going to send us mika's must read. very excited about this. i make a lot of purchases for my business.

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so the telefax machine from the 0s has stuff spitting out. there's so many op eds in here you guys are talking about. >> the last two lines of the ruth marcus op ed in "the washington post" are jaw dropping. this is a stunning collapse of

very traditional places for support for president obama. it's not just a critique. emily slaughter, also, former obama state department official who comes down so hard on obama in syria, i'm not sure whether anyone other than john mccain has been this tough. >> steve rattner? >> i agree. i think there are a lot of questions to raise about what obama did in syria. i wouldn't go near as far as cheney did in the "wall street journal." bill kristol talking about boots on the ground is ridiculous. >> the cheney op ed is worth reading just to look at the quotes that they pull out, devastating quotes from barack obama saying al qaeda is disseminated, that they're on the run. making fun of i.s.i.s. saying just because you put laker jerseys on doesn't mean you're professionals. so many things wrong as far as the quote. regardless of what you think about the cheneys, even if

you're a supporter of barack obama, you should see what he said there. you are reading what? >> here is ruth marcus -- >> by the way, isn't this fascinating. foreign policy. we're told foreign policy doesn't matter. that seems to be what everybody is focusing on. >> a cautious obama misreads history on foreign policy. the single episode of obama overlearning the lessons of history is pretty much the entirety of his foreign policy. there's been a reaction to the adventurism of george w. bush. bush promised humility and over reached. obama underplayed the hand in world affairs. the administration's intingt to treat and ignore festering problems has helped to contribute to the cataclysmic results playing out in iraq. yes, the original, far graver sin was the decision to invade. the responsibility of the incumbent president is to deal with the mistakes he inherits. what happens in iraq and syria will not necessarily stay in

iraq and syria. the conflagrations oversees threaten the homeland. a president ignores this risk at his parm. that lesson of history cannot be overlooked. >> i can't overstate the angry e-mails. you may get some of them, too. steve, you may, too, from ambassadors and foreign leaders that i'm receiving saying what's wrong with you people? where are you? why is your country so adrift on the international stage. a lot of people very worried about it. sam stein, it is understandable that barack obama would want to overcome seat for the military adventurism for the bush and cheney years. this is a mistake that happens time and time again, the saying saying that generals are always fighting the last war and the results are disastrous. the same with the commander in chief who is always fighting the last war. and as ruth marcus said, some would say there's disastrous

results because of that. >> listen, it's a complex issue. from my reporting and from my conversations with people in that circle, they look at this and they say that the punditry, that the people who write and talk and think about this for a living often want a quick knee-jerk reaction and that's not always the best -- >> how sad with iraq on fire and syria on fire and the ukraine on fire and a large part of the world on fire that the obama administration would focus on punditry. this is so typical -- >> that's my conversation -- >> no. this is so typical of what the obama administration does. they either blame republicans or, worse yet, they blame b pundits and reporters. mika, have i not always said, every time you talk to them and

say crisis is coming, their response is, oh, joe -- how many times have we done that over the past six years? >> i've heard that before. >> for six years. it's always somebody else's problem, and you're just not as smart as we are. and you pundits and you reporters in the white house, you just don't understand. >> if we were engaged in syria and on several other fronts as some of the republicans have advocated, there would be criticism across the board. >> it's not an all-or-nothing situation. >> it's not. it's not. i think today the president is taking it from all sides on foreign policy. >> alex is screaming and yelling at us. i think it's really rude. he says we have to go to break and it makes me sad because i want all of you to talk. your voices are worthy of being heard. >> much more "morning joe" straight ahead.

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♪ we have very exciting news coming out of the city of toronto today. the city clerk's office received a letter last night from none other than mayor rob ford that says he will be leaving rehab and back to work on june 30th. i guess this is going to be the best summer ever after all. this is the letter mayor ford sent. i will resume my duties as mayor of toronto on june 30th.

here is the quote n the later portion of the afternoon. even in his official notice to return to work two weeks from now, he says he's going to be late. and you can tell it's from him because if you look down, he signed his name in barbecue sauce. >> they're actually doing a show on him, like a broadway show, a musical. welcome back to "morning joe." >> nicolle wallace and sam stein are with us. joining the table "morning joe" contributor mark halperin. former uk foreign secretary and star of musical and president and ceo of international rescue committee, david miliband. great to have you on the show. former adviser to the bush

administration. >> david, let me begin with you. looking at our opinion pages today. we have a lot of people who traditionally supported barack obama vis ra obama eviscerating him on his foreign policy. i'm wondering what is the view from overseas of what the united states foreign policy is looking like these days as it pertains to the ukraine, what's happening in syria, what's happening in iraq, what's happening in iran and across the middle east. >> i'm a new come tore the u.s. now living here, but spent time abroad with a humanitarian organization. the biggest thing i can say is no one thinks the u.s. is weak. it's not a weakness debate around the world because they can see there remains an extraordinary strong economy, it has a very, very strong military. the question is how does it deploy both the assets it's got and the threat of using them?

>> do they think we're doing that well? >> i think what they'd say at the moment is that you learned the limits of hard power in the decade after 9/11. now you're learning the limits of the absence of tcredible threat. that's an important distinction. it's not just about the middle east. this is a reeling region at the moment. if you look elsewhere, if you look at the rising powers in china and elsewhere, they don't -- they think of themselves as developing country compared to you, and certainly on all the indicators of national wealth or military power, they remain such. what the question is whether or not, not to pick one op ed writer, someone wrote it's not that the americans are war weary, they're world weary. that's the question people are asking because the international order -- >> a great way of putting it.

>> -- that's been upheld not just during the cold war but in the 20 years after the cold war, that's a national order of let's call it globalization, incredibly beneficial for many millions of people who came out of poverty. there's an argument an how beneficial it was for you. many people would say it's been a very, very beneficial period. you've opened your economy is all sorts of ways. the question is does america want to bear the burdens as well as the benefit. >> nicolle, barack obama is leading from behind. you can -- not you but everybody can criticize him for not moving quickly enough in syria, not moving quickly enough in eye rarks not leaving enough forces in iraq. we've been at war for 12 years, 13 years. americans are exhausted. the bush administration did overreach in the view of millions of americans.

if barack obama's policies -- they don't like the results of them. it seems like most americans are going along with the decisions he made at the time he was making them. >> well, and part of this is -- president bush had an ally in tony blair, and the two of them i think were able to exert a lot of influence in iraq, the two of them with the coalition were able to have leverage over maliki at the time and sectarian violence seemed to flame and flash. our presence -- it was a different time. i wonder in this country, a big flash point in these debates is the president drawing a red line in syria and not enforcing it. it's a big flash point in our right-left debates about foreign policy. i wonder around the world if it was noted that an american president drew a red line and refused -- or is it just me? >> of course, that's a big thing. the people around the world are not looking at it for the ins

and outs of your day to day politics. obviously the administration would say, look, we got the result. >> did they? you deal on the humanitarian side. this is a humanitarian calamity. >> if i had been here three years ago and said 160 people would be dead in syria, 9 million will be displaced, 3 million will be in neighboring countries including a million in one of your closest allies, jordan, and there will be in the middle of syria a sort of, if you like, a space where i.s.i.s. can develop. it's not something demanding american engagement -- >> had we not completely depleted our blood and treasure for what seemingly is an endless amount of time, maybe it would have been. we're affected by the decisions we made in the recent past. >> the problem is, you look at the numbers and the fact that it's not getting better but getting worse.

now the black hole that was syria is now spreading over into iraq and going to destabilize iraq -- >> what i can report to you from the humanitarian front, it's getting worse. the people have been knocked out of their homes twice, three, four, five times. >> david, we've got to get news really quickly and get dan senor as well. if the united states continues to do nothing, continues to take inaction as we did in syria. if we have that same approach to iraq as many are suggesting on capitol hill, how bad will the situation become this. >> the options get worse, not better. that's the thing. it's not a steady state. that's the challenge. >> by the way, david miliband did answer the question, nicolle, the red line thing was her personal problem. david's answer was very polite and tactful. it was like, no, that's not her problem. she has many other personal problems, but this is not one of

them. >> we'll talk. >> let's go to iraq. sunni militants aligned with the terror group i.s.i.s. came within 40 miles of bagdad on their push to knock the shiite leadership out of power. new reports that the gunmen are laying siege to iraq's largest oil refinery. those sectarian divisions are taking a deadly turn as civilians on both sides trade executions, bombings and intimidation. 44 sunni prisoners were reportedly gunned down monday at a government drold police station. this same cycle of violence sparked a brutal civil war just a few years ago. as nbc's richard engel reports, it may be happening all over again. >> reporter: this video, not verified by nbc news, appears to show i.s.i.s. radicals stopping trucks between iraq and syria. a militant asks the drivers if they're shiite.

they say no, they're sunni, just like the gunmen. he tests them asking how sunnis pray specifically. he's uncon vinced. the drivers are executed. so i ask why they're fighting. they quickly began cheering. they were cheering for their religious leaders. there is a sectarian side to this. they think they're fighting for iraq. also for their shiite faith. >> reporter: this is not the army the united states spent so many dollars and lives to build. battle lines are drawn. the u.s., if it gets involved, will be entering a religious war. >> president obama will be meeting with congressional leaders at the white house today to discuss the situation. several lawmakers including at least two key democrats are urging air strikes against the militants in iraq. for years the administration has declined to attack some of the same fighters in neighboring syria which is the argument and discussion we're having now.

>> let's bring in nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent richard engel who is doing extraordinary work in bagdad. it's got to be surreal after being there during the darkest times of the iraq war from 2003 to 2011. now you're back again. it looks like the situation is worse than it was even in the low points of 2006. >> reporter: it is a terrible country to live in right now. i don't say that lightly. it is absolutely corrupt. the infrastructure doesn't work. as we were walking over here from our bureau a couple nights ago, it's only couple hundred yards. the first checkpoint we came to, we were asked for a bribe. every time we go out to film we're asked for paperwork and a bribe. the infrastructure doesn't work. it's entirely sectarian. yesterday we were at a recruiting center where new people are signing up to join the army after being has

hassled, also asked for a bribe. all the people signing up for the new army were clearly partisan, clearly shy it's, wearing shiite slogans on their flak jackets, u.s.-supplied flak jackets. they were dancing to shiite songs and slogans in front of the same u.s. military vehicles that they got from the army. they were talking about joining this fight against the militants in order to save the shiite faith. as i watched them dancing in front of the vehicles and raising their guns in the airs and shouting, i kept thinking of all the times i watched the u.s. troops training the army and thinking this is not what it's about. i remember interviewing colonel after colonel who kept saying we're going to have an army that is going to hold this country together, it's going to stand up and fight, it's going to be a national army, not a sectarian army. that didn't happen. the army crumbled and they're

getting a sectarian army, getting more sectarian by the day as thousands of shiite recruits sign up to join. a very eye-opening experience to answer your question coming back this trip. >> it's got to be -- again, you look at all the different players here. you have the iranians thinking about coming in. you have sunni death squads. you've got moderate sunnis that we want to from pro text. you have shia who are running the government who obviously we want to prop up. then you have shia death squads. it is impossible to keep up with all of the sides over there. it's just -- it seems to be from here, to be descending into chaos. >> it's actually fairly easy. there's three groups here, and it shouldn't be that hard. that's what's sort of sad about iraq. there are countries much more complicated than this place. switzerland has more factions, more regional divisions than

they do in italy. but there are three groups here, the curds in the north who want nothing but kurdistan. easy to understand. sunnis in the west who have been excluded from power and the shiites who see this as their moment in history to take power and seize political power and secure their road to heaven. they are also aligned with iran. just as these zealous shiites are signing up for the army, today the iranian president said the same thing is happening in iran, they're getting new recruits, people who want to come over the border and join the shiite militias here to defend the country, to defend the holy nature of this place. it is not descending into chaos, breaking into three distinct pieces and those three pieces will kill each other for a long time. >> obviously a lot of people listening to what was said. we're going to go, richard.

i know you can't really make a comment on this, but joe biden several years ago, maybe even a decade ago, was talking about breaking iraq -- partitioning iraq into three parts. it certainly does seem to make a lot more sense today in 2014, does it not, with kurdistan, possible kurdistan acting as a buffer against chaos to turkey who obviously wouldn't like the idea under normal circumstance, but these are not normal circumstances. >> reporter: it's very easy to say, well, there are three groups here, let each one have a country and then they'll all just get along. there's a little bit of oil in every bit of part, not so much in the west. potentially oil there. why not break it up and have three countries. the problem is how do you break it up? who gets what? the kurds want kirkuk, an enormously valuable city.

as all this chaos is happening, they took kirkuk. i have a feeling that the iraqi government might go to war to take it back. the sunnis want therapies to also include syria. that's what they're fighting for, not just a piece of iraq. they're fighting for this sunistan which also has syria. in the south t shiites who are a majority, they don't want the south, they think since we're the majority, we want the whole thing, which is why the government is taking the recruits from iran. so dividing it, sure. it sounds nice. but who is going to do it and where are you going to put the lines. >> richard engel, thank you so much. reporting absolutely extraordinary. we thank you for being with us this morning. dan, i know you and i love to relitigate the past. put yourself in the white house meeting with the president and congressional leaders, they turn to you and say, dan, what should we do now? what constructive role can the

united states play to deal with the situation in iraq, what are the elements you would recommend to them? >> first of all, if the president agrees that we have a strategic interest in heading off what is not just an iraqi problem, it's an iraq and syria problem. the critical mistakes in 2011 were not just not doing anything about syria, but also withdrawing fully from iraq. we now have this big ungovernable space that will have all the attributes of afghanistan pre 9/11 but on much more valuable real estate, much more strategically important part of the world. even if you don't believe the human catastrophe is reason enough, the strategic interests are there. the reality is, mark, through the history of the iraq war -- it's disappointing, very frustrating for me to say this because we always believed early on that, as we stood up an iraqi government, as there are iraqi election, as we stood up the military, over time they would be able to stand up on its own.

we learned over time that's not the case. there's this complex relationship in iraq between security and politics. if the government cannot provide basic security, the politics are a mess. our presence in iraq in some way, not combat forces necessarily, but in some way gives us influence because maliki, if he doesn't have us to turn to, he has leverage. he has the iranians, the iranian government is more than happy to fill that void. the situation in iraq today is no more complex than what president bush was dealing with the decision about the surge. you had al qaeda in iraq, the precursor to i.s.i.s. you had the um bar acake ening and then a security vacuum on the receiving end of those attacks by shiite militias. we didn't know what side we were on. providing basic security and on-the-ground advice to the government of iraq makes a difference.

i would say some kind of special ops capabilities, some kind of air power. some kind of overall covert operations -- >> you actually have, of course, democrats like dianne feinstein says we've got to go in and do something. sam stein has a question for david miliband. >> david, the usual response dan eliminated is we need to have a military component. i grant there's a place for that with these types of crises, but what are the diplomatic levers that we can pull with respect to iraq and respect to syria right now? >> i think it's a great point. there isn't a military solution alone. if we learned anything else in the last 12 years is when military efforts aren't part of a wider political drive about the sharing of power which is the central issue here, then you can't make progress. i think what's important is you've got to look at this tactical shefrm, but also strategic long term. the two issues that have come out in the discussion, one, can the state structure survive?

the state structure created 100 years ago, the lines on the map written by some of my predecessors in the british foreign office, can that state structure survive? it's not surviving because you have different regions running themselves. secondly, how can you revent the ripple effects going into pakistan and then into the wider world. >> would you support a partition? >> i don't think it's our job to start rewriting lines. i've just come back from south sudan where they declared independence and are fighting among themselves. writing a new set of lines won't solve the problems. remember, the sunnis are not a single block. everyone is united in being against i.s.i.s. the fact that i.s.i.s. claims to represent a sunni block is denied by many, many sunnis around the world, including in iraq and in syria. so i think if we reduce this to western powers drawing new lines on maps, we're not going to make any progress at all. i think the fact that there is

an extraordinary unity and the search to defeat i.s.i.s., the iranians, russians, the west all want to defeat them. that is the beginning of the discussion. my plea is get the military right, get the politics right. for goodness sakes, don't forget the people. humanitarian catastrophe causes political problems. >> and that continues to grow. david, thank you so much. we love having you here, dan senor, stick around. they found themselves on opposite sides. one of the biggest political stories in recent memory, david boies and ted olson will join us. plus mexico shocks the home team. the incredible work of a goalkeeper, i cannot believe -- did you see this yesterday? it was mind-boggling. anyway, we'll show the highlights. >> glad you didn't call him a

goal tender. >> no. also tom coburn. thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things,

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live look at washington, d.c. beautiful sunny wednesday morning. brand new polls by nbc news and the "wall street journal" paint a troubling picture for the obama administration. president obama is now tied for the lowest job approval rating of his presidency at 41%. he is also hitting new lows on foreign policy. 37% of americans approve of his approach to issues overseas, and a record high 57% disapprove. joining us now, nbc news chief white house correspondent and host of daily rundown chuck todd and from capitol hill, republican senator tom coburn of oklahoma. >> chuck, first to you with poll numbers and then to our good

friend tom. we always hear that foreign policy doesn't matter, foreign policy doesn't matter. it's hard to believe as you look at these poll numbers that bowe bergdahl and iraq and all of the -- >> syria. >> let's not forget ukraine. >> all these other foreign policy crises are weighing the president's numbers down. >> a total drag. never mind that at home va also hit him. this poll is a disaster for the president. what's interesting about it is it's not a disaster for the democrats. i'll separate that out in a minute. you look at the presidency here, lowest job rating, lowest on foreign policy. his administration seen as less competent than the bush administration, sorry nicolle. >> she's happy about that. >> she doesn't like that that's the standard. >> then on the issue of do you believe you can still lead, and

a majority believe not. essentially the public is saying your presidency is over by saying a number like that, 54% saying he no longer has the ability to lead and solve problems. that's one of those things where the white house is going, wow, the foreign policy -- >> did you guys ask specifics on foreign policy questions? >> not yet on iraq. we're in the field on iraq. yes on bergdahl. >> what's the response on bergdahl? >> plurality against the trade. very much partisan lines split on that. here is a reminder, large majority against shutting down gitmo. taliban for a lot of americans is sin none nous wimouse w /* / with al qaeda. the country basically leans with temperature, immigration with the president. he's got them on some of these issues. he just doesn't have the confidence of them personally.

>> let's bring in tom coburn now. we have so much going on right now, so much going on overseas. what do we do? dianne feinstein came out and said actually we needed to be more involved in iraq and have to find a solution there. what's the next step? what do you suggest for the president and leaders on capitol hill to do now? >> i think we've made a couple of irreversible errors. the tragedy that's going to unfold in iraq is one of two things, is we're going to have americans put at risk again because we didn't leave a residual force there, and all you had to do is look at post 1950 and korea and post world war ii in europe, and the stabilization of the presence of our troops has a large impact in terms of people's behavior. so we're either going to do that or a lot of people are going to die and you're going to see this continuing worsening conflict

throughout the middle east. we have now telegraphed the exact same thing to happen in afghanistan that's happening in iraq right now with the idea that we're going to take troops out, leaving no residual -- none of it makes sense. >> i have a feeling that policy is going to change. chuck todd has a question. >> senator, how much does public opinion matter here? the public is totally -- not just a little bit against staying involved in iraq and afghanistan, but in a major way. in the afghanistan war, in our most recent poll, 65% say that war wasn't with it. similar numbers for iraq, but afghanistan now being that high. this is what makes it very hard for political leaders on either side of the aisle. >> chuck, i disagree. had you spoken about the importance of protecting america -- this is really about us. this is about putting our country at high risk again. sitting on the intel committee i

can tell you that what we need is leadership to explain the importance of why we want to stop the terrorism, al qaeda and the taliban throughout the middle east and everywhere else they are. ultimately it's going to land on our shores if we don't. and not leading to explain that. real leadership is doing the right thing for the country even when the public isn't with you, trying to win them over and suffering the consequence ifs you didn't and still doing the right thing. >> dan cinor, the senator talking about this is such high risk without litigating. the question is how much is o reticence. i think we would have, had we not, engaged erroneously in iraq and endlessly in afghanistan. >> certainly the country is war

weary with good reason. if you look at the history of american engagements in military actions around the world, go back to world war ii, the public is always against them. this is important. first gulf war, after saddam had gone into kuwait, before president bush made his case we need to do something in '90 and '91, the public was against us doing anything. when clinton went into balkans, the public overwhelmingly against doing anything. every period the public is opposed. the exception is 2003 when the public was supportive of doing something in iraq. it's up to the president to make the case. i would say if the president made the case, he would have people like tom coburn and john mccain and other credible leaders in the republican party standing shoulder to shoulder with him on why we have to do this for strategic regions, humanitarian catastrophe. >> chuck, you're in the white house all the time. it sound like they're moving in that direction. they know they have to do something. >> they have ruled out air

strikes, part of that is targeting issues. they've been spending -- who do you target? this is more like a yemen situation, where it's going to be special forces, very tactical, drones, that's what they they they'll end upcoming down on. maliki is not bundling very much. they would like to condition this with that. i'm told they will try to have -- when they do something there will be something in syria, too. you can't do one without the other because there is no border. some robust announcement, maybe arming the moderate opposition, but something to stem the tide of i.s.i.s. in syria as well. it's interesting to hear your point, if the president would go make that case. this is a man that got re-elected being against iraq and re-elected by reminding people -- it's a very -- i just think -- i think this is -- you get to a point where it's a difficult mindset. >> look at george w. bush on the eve of the surge decision.

this is important. his numbers were in the tank. >> no, no, no. he was ideologically for the war. that's the difference. >> the point here is, and chuck is exactly right. barack obama is president of the united states. he is commander in chief because he was against the iraq war. he is not going to leave the white house with troops in iraq. this is his legacy. for him internally, this drives him. he wants to be -- >> you can't have someone around you painting a picture of what syria and iraq together are going to look like at the end of his presidency? >> quickly i want to go to senator tom coburn. i want to ask you about our party, the republican party and ask how we're doing. it seems in many ways we've moved past the divisions of '11 and '12. obviously the eric cantor race caught the establishment by surprise, and we have thad dock run running.

first of all, should he be re-elected in mississippi? does he deserve it? second, how is the republican party doing? >> i think the answer on thad is the people of mississippi need to make that judgment. not me. i think the republican party is doing well. i love it when we have tension within our party because that means we're struggling to find truth. that tension is good for us. debate is good for us. when we don't have debate, we don't have bruised elbows and skinned knees, then we're not actually moving or growing on behalf of america. >> you know what happens when we don't have those fights? republicans spend more money than democrats. >> no kidding. >> like we did from 2001 to 2008. that's what happens when everybody gets along and hangs out at the chamber. >> my assessment of the eric cantor race is you don't take care of business at home, you're not going to win no matter who you are. i think that's exactly what it was. that happens all the time. >> tom, thank you so much.

>> senator tom coburn. >> see you guys. god bless you. i read several times that thad cochran was unaware of the fact that -- there's some dispute -- >> that eric cantor lost the race. >> the day before he talked about the kantor loss. >> that's even worse. >> no -- >> have you seen the video? it's pretty unbelievable. >> in the video they ask him about it and he literally starts asking the reporter what she's talking about. >> good luck getting appropriations in oklahoma. >> a chill up my spine. >> he's still got to get some -- >> coburn doesn't care about pork. >> chuck todd we'll watch "the daily rundown" at 9:00 a.m. a lot still to get to.

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coming up next, two of the leading voices for marriage equality, david bois, a must-see, stick around.

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supreme court ruled married same sex couples were entitled to federal benefits. superstar lawyers david boies and ted olson who first went head-to-head in bush vgore and later made argument for gay marriage. they're out with a new book "redeeming the dream" the case for marriage equality. we collected the book as our new mojo book club pick. one of the biggest cases in modern american history who knows anything about politics or not and yet you come together on this and work together on this. how did the journey change your both, first of all? david, we'll start with you? >> i think it changed us in a number of ways. we started out and i think we were both committed to this as a matter of constitutional rights, human rights, civil rights. we all believe that the constitution protected the right

of every individual to marry the person they loved. we thought it was a very important case. we then got into it and we got to know our plaintiffs and we got to see firsthand the damage, the pain that this kind of discrimination caused them -- caused the children that they were raising, caused their families, and i think each of us was affected emotionally by that. as the case went on, i think this became much more of a personal emotional journey as well as a legal case. >> and nicolle, you really see their actual journey in it as well in terms of dealing with the case and the people. >> such a neat body of work now about this case. a book written by "the new york times" writer, the hbo documentary. this is the first one where i thought you laid bare in the way i didn't expect you to how the plaintiffs and their lives and their children's lives cracked your heart open.

you're married. i heard this has had a profound and spiritual effect on your marriage. and for you, ted, the republican party had much further to come on this issue than the democratic party did. a lot of people brigive you cre for bringing us there. >> i think the republican party has a long ways to go. it has come a long way. it is quite remarkable. what you said is we got to know one another a lot better, working together and getting to know the plaintiffs and working with them and then going through a 13-day trial where experts on all subjects related to same-sex relationships and so forth became a part of the trial. we put discrimination on trial in that case. it was an extraordinarily moving experience. >> thomas, i think you might have some insight. want to share? >> i do. my husband is my greatest asset now. as we all know in our relationships, your spouse is the most important person in

your life. we were living in california and wanted to get married. that right was taken away from us in '08. we then moved to new york and we were afforded that right and took it as quickly as we could. but in seeing the documentary "the case against eight," ted, i want to ask you about this, in explaining what marriage is and trying to get the gop on board, it is about demonstrating a conservative value. marriage is a conservative value, two adults willing to love one another and foster a family, a relationship, personal responsibility and taking care of one another, that is core conservative. >> what can be more conservative than that? i wrote a long piece on the cover of "newsweek" called "the conservative case for gay marriage." why should conservatives be against a loving couple coming together, forming a bond, becoming part of a community, being a part of a relationship and a neighborhood and supporting the schools -- >> they would argue it's

supposed to be a man and woman. >> as david is good at saying, that's a bumper sticker, not an argument. taking two people that love one another -- our plaintiffs had been in their relationships with their respective now spouse for 10, 15 years, raising children, going to school and doing all the things that the rest of us do. what pain we cause when we discriminate against them and tell them their relationship is not worth it, it's not as good as our relationships, they are not the same of us. >> the book is "redeeming the dream." david boies and ted olson, thank you. you can read an excerpt on our website. you can tweet us your thoughts using #mj bookclub. more today with david and ted in the after moon know joe section. >> can we just keep them forever? this is the dream team right

now. >> we might need them. >> panelists forever, the dream team. >> sounds good to me. still ahead, no such thing as savoring the win for the u.s. soccer team as they prepare prepare to face one of the most explosive players in the world. the latest from the world cup straight ahead on "morning joe."

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with us now the director of city soccer, the author of "star p "star-spangled soccer." gary, we talked about this game. unbelievable performance by the goalie for mexico. >> it happens in world cups. you find the star that comes along. the goalkeeper wasn't supposed to be their number one choice. he was chosen right before the world cup and now he's one of the great saviors. >> look at all these saves. >> he kept everything out. he had one of those glory days that goalkeepers dream of. that was a remarkable save. >> look at this. saved the game. >> this was a fantastic game.

mexico played really well. this is actually a little deceptive. he made five great saves but mexico held their own for long portions of their game and actually scared brazil on a lot of occasions. >> brazil is still like a 55% favorite to win the tournament, the closest next team is 6% or 7%. they're overwhelming favorites to win the tournament at their own place. mexico not the strongest team. they have a couple of great players but they have some guys playing that sit on the bench in the mls. >> this team doesn't believe this. they beat brazil in the final. brazil has a problem. i think they're overwhelmingly emotional. i think they think they have to win this world cup. they had two bad games. they don't look like the relaxed team you normally see with brazil. >> too much pressure. >> i think the whole country believes they need to win this and have to win it and you can see it in their play.

>> but except for a really, really bad call by the official in the first match they would have drawn that too. >> take nothing from mexico here. >> yes. >> for about 25 minutes in that second half they outplayed brazil, had two or three really great chances. >> so let's go to the next big game for this country. we're playing portugal for this weekend. what's it look like for team usa which shocked a lot of people with their win against ghana yesterday. >> this is a -- >> or monday. >> it's a steely group of players that really believe they can win this game. portugal did not qualify well. they didn't play well obviously in their opening game against germany and shot shellacked. i think on sunday this is the biggest game from a viewer standpoint in american history. this game on sunday at 6:00 p.m. will have the whole country watching. and they can beat portugal. >> a lot of americans that don't like soccer say, oh, it's a 0-0 draw or a 1-1 draw would be boring.

a draw would be a huge victory for us because we would go through this group, which is supposed to be the group of death. nobody, and i mean nobody in the soccer world thought this country, the united states, had a chance to get through this group of death. >> the team wasn't supposed to get out of this. we're second in the group now. the whole world thought we'd finish bottom of this group. i love usa when they're underdogs. they sort of kick butt and do something different. this portugal game, if ronaldo shows up, the usa will have a difficult day but ronaldo hasn't shown up yet. everything, i think, depends on how ronaldo feels. and the body language and everything that happened in the first game made it look like portugal was in a little disarray. >> do you agree ronaldo greatest player in the world? >> no doubt about it. he had a phenomenal season. >> there's something about you soccer men. >> i can't stand ronaldo. i can't stand him -- >> highly unpopular but he is phenomenal. look, the usa team, if they stick to what they're good at, which is defending tough,

battling hard, don't try to outplay portugal up in the field, then they have a chance at getting through. we should qualify -- we will qualify with a draw. and i think they will. i think we'll get a draw. they're to be beaten and we can do it. >> gary, thank you so much. >> i love it. gary, you've got to come back and talk monday about the game. up next, a benghazi terror suspect is in u.s. military custody hiding in plain sight for the last two years. the debate over what to do with him now. plus, new information on how the irs managed to lose tens of thousands of e-mails, including those of a former official at the center of a congressional investigation. and dr. oz on capitol hill testifying on sketchy health products. >> i bought those magic beans and look at me now. >> his doctor's orders instead. ouch. all that and much more straight ahead. alright, that should just about do it. excuse me, what are you doing?

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it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast, as you take a live look at beautiful new york city. what a day, wednesday, right? hump day. okay, with us on set, nicolle wallace, steve rattner and sam stein in washington. >> a lot of news out there. >> absolutely. >> chockful. i'm glad we have three hours. i wish we had seven hours. this is what my grandma would say when somebody is trying to put ten pounds of sugar in a

five-pound bag. >> okay. >> except she would be talking about women wearing dresses that they shouldn't be wearing. but anyway, a lot going on. >> yes. under the cover of the night, the u.s. military captures a key figure behind the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi, ending a two-year manhunt. but if the white house knew where he was, some are asking what took them so long to get him. >> really strange. plus hillary clinton's book tour/presidential campaign continues. she's still answering questions about benghazi and now she says her congressional testimony was in large part of the fog of war. the fog of war? i thought they held that on capitol hill, not benghazi. also surprising polls showing her approval ratings continuing to drop. she's in the mid-40s now. this book tour just not what the clinton camp had planned. >> but they're selling more than some -- >> oh, they're selling books. i don't think this is about selling books, though. >> this is a campaign. >> it's not going well.

also ahead, mary barra back on the hill, expected to face another tough round of congressional questions today. will her answers satisfy lawmakers? we'll have that. first let's get to some of the headlines today. ukraine's interior minister says a bombing is to blame for an explosion at a pipeline carrying natural gas from russia to europe. the blast sent a fire ball more than 200 yards into the air. the fire was extinguished after a few hours and ukraine says gas supplies to the west were not affected. the country is now investigating what it calls an act of terrorism. the explosion came just a day after russia said it would stop piping gas into ukraine unless kiev paid for the deliveries in advance. we're learning more this morning about how the irs lost 10 ofs thousand o-- tens of tho e-mails. nicole stop shaking your head.

>> how the irs managed to lose them? okay. i lost all information over the past five or six years. there is an explanation. >> it would cost $10 million to have e-mail systems that actually saved more that i know certain amount at a time. >> oh, this is ridiculous. >> and we don't apparently spend that money. >> they didn't have a full mail retention system. >> come on, are you really believing this? do you really believe this? >> i believe everything in "the new york times." >> do you believe lois lerner, her e-mails would just magically disappear? >> they apparently had a system in which you could only retain a certain number of e-mails in your computer and that was it. >> i think that's very possible. i don't like the way it looks. >> it's absolutely ridiculous. >> i have every single e-mail i've ever sent. >> everybody around this table -- no, no, come on, this is nonsense. everybody around this table can go back and find e-mails. i use mac. you know, my e-mail address is

mac.com. i can go back to 2009, 2008. >> they're probably in the cloud. >> if you spill a soda on your computer -- >> oh, come on, these are forever. this is complete, utter nonsense. >> the nsa can go to their pit in bluffdale, utah, and dig some of these out. don't you think the nsa has lois's e-mails? >> there were seven hard drive crashes, no centralized archive and the practice of erasing and reusing backup tapes every six months. employees made their own decisions as to which e-mails would be part of the official agency record. >> seriously, if -- >> you brought up the best point on "way too early" this morning. you said i wish the irs is as good with us as we are with them, their receipts and e-mails. we're not asking for them. >> we're not going to be good on this. one of the most important people in the agency? i've never heard of anything

like this before, except with al gore lost a lot of his e-mails right before his presidential campaigns. democrats are not really good with e-mails, especially when investigations are on the way. >> this doesn't look good. >> forget the political implications. >> yeah. >> also for the irs itself, they demand so much from us. >> well, that's -- yes. >> and they can't even retain e-mails for a couple of years from one of the most important figures who's now in the middle of the scandal they face -- >> you stuff your receipts and scan them in case you're audited you actually have the receipts. that's the agency that lost everything. i don't buy it. >> if we're being audited and we say we lost all of this, what happens to all of us around this table? we get thrown in jail. so my question is who's going to be thrown in jail for this? >> oh, my goodness. >> what do you mean oh, my goodness. mika, mika, i guarantee you -- i guarantee you if you didn't have

receipts and you were in the middle of a suspicious investigation launched by the irs and they're coming after you, you go oh, my hard drive crashed, i don't have that information. you're in jail. >> why would it cost $10 million to make them able to retain more than a certain amount of e-mails in this day and age? i don't get that. >> we use the word "lost" like you lost your homework. this is a policy. they had a policy of not retaining these e-mails past six months. >> hard drives are not the only way to retain e-mails. campaigns retain e-mails and hard copy. before we had big fancy servers -- >> but they have gone to people lois lerner was e-mailing with. look, i'm not here to defend them. i'm saying we don't know all the facts. >> can i ask you a question? why are you here to defend lois lerner. a well-known television personality is out to repair his image after a rough day on capitol hill. dr. memet oz was asking for help

from international marketers who use his likeness to sell weight loss products. i was looking forward to hearing him testify. but senators played clips from his show, talking about green coffee beans, suggesting he is actually part of the problem. take a look. >> you may think magic is make believe, but this little bean has scientists saying they found a magic weight loss cure for every body type. this miracle pill can burn fat fast. >> why would you cheapen your show by saying things like that? >> in an intent to engage viewers, i use flowery language. i used language that was very passionate but ended up not being helpful but incendiary. >> i don't get why you need to say this stuff because you know it's not true. >> dr. oz says he believes in what he discusses on tv. he said he never endorsed a brand name and internet marketers use his words to sell diet products without his permission. >> so what are these green magic

coffee beans? >> where do we get them? >> no, no. what is he saying. these green coffee beans are magic and you lose weight? >> i'm investing. >> it's a stimulant. you're filled with caffeine. >> why are they green? >> i think that's what they make from green tea, right? something like that. >> green coffee. >> it's not a weight loss product. >> i only bought them once and they didn't work. >> did you buy them because you saw them on dr. oz? >> i like dr. oz. >> i like him a thought. >> listen, if he's got magic coffee beans, i want some of that. >> me too. >> seriously. >> how about magic mushrooms, you want those too? >> i have those. i have those. >> he's got them. >> no, you know what, we all make mistakes, okay? come on. we all make mistakes. like you. you actually agreed to work on the show for seven years. >> that's true, i did. >> people forgive you for that. >> i did. i didn't think twice about it either, rattner either, what's

that mean about my judgment? 21 months after the deadly attack in benghazi, one of the suspected ring leaders is now in u.s. custody, but mika, this is strange. it's a weird story. >> u.s. special forces carried out a rate over the weekend. about two dozen military commandos and fbi agents were involved after months of planning. ahmed abu khattala was quickly taken to the uss new york to be questioned. he is suspected of being a link to the militant group ansar al sharia. he is facing trial in the u.s. and could be put to death if convicted. in a 2012 interview, khattala said the attack was not planned but developed from a protest over an anti-islam video. >> which nobody believes. >> and he claimed to have no role in the violence at the consulate. >> this is really strange, though. the obama administration is facing questions over why it took nearly two years to make this arrest of a suspect where everybody knew where he was. this guy reports -- he was

hanging out in benghazi in cafes bragging about it and giving interviews and mocking the united states saying they were not strong enough to come after him and the government. remember, barack obama said that he was going to -- justice would be served. it's really strange why it took him a couple of years. also president obama, of course, is defending the pace of the investigation and says the arrest sends a clear message to the world. >> when americans are attacked, no matter how long it takes, we will find those responsible and we will bring them to justice. and that's a message i said the day after it happened and regardless of how long it takes, we will find you. >> can i just say this goes -- you know, there's sometimes he just doesn't have to say certain things. like the bowe bergdahl episode, that could have gone so much

more smoothly. it just could have. >> okay. >> it could have quietly come in and taken care of -- >> are you insinuating this is less than genuine. >> i don't understand why he sits there and says no matter how long it takes to bring them to justice, we will find them. we knew where he was. he was sipping lattes in benghazi starbucks, if they have those over there. >> i'd like to raise my hand. >> go ahead, thomas. >> it took ten years to get osama bin laden, right? we kind of knew where he was for a long time. nothing happened, right? >> well, no, no, no. we were having a hard time finding him. >> i'm not done. gitmo is not someplace that we're looking to beef up. we're actually letting people out in trade for p.o.w.s. >> agreed. >> so unless we have the evidence to bring these people here to try them in the american justice system, it's going to take at least -- it's 21 months, a little over 21 months. it's going to take that time. we did not get osama bin laden for ten years. there's no quick answer.

>> whether you want to believe it or not, the reason they give for this is they did not want to go in and destabilize the government until it destabilized itself, which it has now. they wanted to find the moment. >> to find this special moment. and it's the president of the united states, the commander in chief said no matter how long it takes, let these terrorists that kill americans know that we will find them, we will hunt them down and then we will wait two years for that special moment. >> listen, but part -- wait, wait, wait. we did have a debate in the country, though, about what it would look like if we treated terrorism as a law enforcement matter and that debate took place in 2004. this is what it looks like. so when you treat terrorism as a law enforcement matter, this is what it looks like. >> this guy is going to get -- he shouldn't get read his miranda rights, he's not an american citizen. >> i think he got read his miranda rights but that's a

different matter. >> they're having that debate, whether he should be read his miranda rights, be treated like a u.s. citizen. >> let's bring in nbc news national security -- unless you want to continue the black hole that is gitmo on our reputation, former director of the national counterterrorism center, mike leiter. michael, why wait if we knew where he was? what do you think was behind that, if anything? is there any explanation? >> i think you've touched on a number of them but there are really three things. one, you really do want to find a time that is safe so when delta force special forces guys going in it's not a huge firefight. second, you're absolutely right that there is an investigation here collecting information, making sure they can hold this guy for the long term. and third, there is the issue of stability in libya. as we know the reconstruction in libya has gone very, very poorly, so any involvement of u.s. troops on the ground is really going to gauze a geopolitical instability in l s

libya. should it have been six months? i'm sure everyone would have liked to have it go faster but i think it's a stretch to say this is a reversal back to pre-9/11, treat terrorism as a law enforcement matter. >> and now the question of what to do with him and the controversy over that, which i have a feeling there will be different points of view at this table. but what are the plans for him that we know? >> so he's going to come back to the united states. he'll be charged in federal court in the district of columbia. as i understand it, he's going to take a very lengthy trip back to the united states, and that's going to give them sufficient time. he'll probably have seven to ten days of interrogations and there will be combined interrogations by a high value -- >> so michael -- i'm sorry, i didn't mean to cut you off because you're the first get in the history of "morning joe" i've ever cut off, but we've got to go to break. >> no, we don't. >> i've just got to ask you a couple questions. did eric holder not try this before with khalid sheikh

mohammed? we were going to try him in a manhattan courtroom, that didn't work. we are now getting these guys that are terrorists. they are enemy combatants. this would be like dragging a nazi ss soldier off the battlefield and trying him in a courtroom in kansas. what concerns do you have? what concern do so other people in the intel community have about us bringing enemy combatant terrorists to the united states and affording them protections that men and women in uniform, constitutional rights, have been fighting for for american citizens, not terrorists who kill american citizens? >> well, first, i don't think we should elevate this guy to khalid sheikh mohammed. this is not a global terrorist leader in the same way. but more importantly, joe, i think if we look at the record, federal courts have actually done thus far a much better job of convicting people and giving people longer sentences for

terrorism than the military tribunals are. now, we can blame that on how the military tribunals are set up, bad law and the like, but the fact is the federal courts have worked really well for this. and the military tribunals haven't. we haven't had anyone convicted in a tribunal whose conviction was not ultimately overturned by an appeals court. so the federal courts i think are a pretty good system. from the intelligence community perspective, the important thing is that he's interrogated. the important thing is that he's not immediately turned over to a lawyer and quiets down and that is not what happens in this case. >> given what michael has just said, what would be the problem with actually using our federal court system to do its job? would you have him go back to gitmo? would you have him go to gitmo instead? what? nicolle -- >> i don't think we should be limited to seven days to being able to interrogate this guy. >> it depends on what the goals are. if the obama administration has

counterterrorism in preventing future attacks at the center of its objective here, then i would hope they would take as much time as they needed to glean whatever they need out of him. coming up, mary barra returns to capitol hill for what is expected to be another round of explosive hearings. we'll preview her testimony next. you notice they give companies to women when they're going down in flames? >> that's when they need women to put everything back together and use their brains. >> we are going to make a historic announcement. the first female of, fill in the blank, right? it's kind of like an airplane going down in flames and the pilot goes, i tell you what -- >> jump and pull the golden parachute. >> we're going to make history and have the first female pilot. the men destroy the companies and then they say we're going to make history and bring on a woman. >> it's just like the house, the home. the men mess up watching tv with everything on their tummies and

the women clean it up. plus we booked the national review's jim geraghty -- >> what? >> we're disappointed to find out that it has nothing to do with pot. i wasn't disappointed, okay? just for the record, it should have been -- >> it doesn't have anything about pot? >> we'll find out what that's about. >> jim geraghty is a funny guy. first, let's go bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> this guy is all about weed. all about weed. >> we grow it under here, but don't tell anybody. good morning, everyone. here's what we're dealing with out here across the country. we had another big tornado in nebraska yesterday, not as bad and deadly as the one two days ago, but this one was still very impressive and it was still very intense. you can see it from a distance, the storm chaser was a little far away from it, but you could just see the structure of it. we call it a wedge tornado. it almost looks like a wedge came down from the sky. probably an 8th to a quarter mile wide and did do significant damage in coleridge, nebraska. we had almost 300 storm reports, including a lot of wind damage

in the great lakes and upstate new york. we're continuing to get drenched by these storms, even this morning. detroit has been hit a couple of times. i'm sure we'll have airport delays there. this line of storms now in iowa and wisconsin is going to come down over milwaukee and chicago during the middle of the day and that will also bring you some significant travel delays, especially at o'hare. here's what we're looking at as far as who's at risk for severe storms. 65 million people, that includes almost everyone in the northern and central plains right through the ohio valley. isolated tornados, but a lot of wind damage and hail. as far as the temperatures go, yesterday was very hot in the mid-atlantic, record high of 97 in washington, d.c. today we'll be about 96 with a heat index of 101. this is the peak of the heat wave there in the mid-atlantic. the rest of the country actually is looking pretty quiet. everyone on the west should enjoy a really nice day today. san francisco, 71 and sunny, probably one of the nicer forecasts we have across the board. looking at a nice shot there across the river into downtown

philadelphia. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. when folks think about what they get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.

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beautiful shot of washington, d.c., capitol hill, the sun coming up this morning. what could be wrong? >> nothing could be wrong. >> let's take a look at the morning papers, shall we? >> yeah. >> "the washington post." an explosion tore through a world cup viewing area in nigeria and now at least a dozen are feared dead. officials have not released the exact number of killed and

injured, but witnesses say there were many fatalities. no one has claimed responsibility, but the extremists of the group boko haram have been behind several deadly attacks in the region. and "the detroit free press," gm ceo returns to the hot seat. mary barra will testify before a house panel and talk about changes to the company's culture after it went more than a decade before addressing the safety issues that led to the deaths of at least, mika, 13 people. gm recalled more than 17 million vehicles since the beginning of the year. all right, "the times," there's a possible link between the stress hormone cortisol, oh, no, and memory loss. research from the university of iowa says elevated levels of cortisol can result in memory lapses as humans grow oerltd. scientists say the hormone can block the synapses that help us recall information. they also say sleep deprivation

can also affect memory. i'm just going to go home. >> where are we? what's my name? and "the los angeles times" games of thrones tv finale was the most watched show ever. the episode picked up 1.5 million views in the 12 hours it aired. that's expected to rise to 7 million. "game of thrones" is the most pirated show of 2013. >> people watch it, right? i don't get it. >> there are like gnomes and elves and spikes coming out of the sides of their face. everybody watches this. >> i don't get it. >> is it highly political? thomas, do you watch this? >> it's excellent. >> i've heard it's amazing. nicolle, do you watch this? >> i don't. i don't like dragons. >> there are dragons and gnomes and dragons flying. look at this. yeah, this is what i'm going to

do on a sunday night. >> "game of thrones." is it like lord of the rings? >> there's only three dragons. >> is it like "lord of the rings"? >> kinda. >> it just doesn't work. the "new jersey star ledger" -- i'm sorry, i don't like it. >> i've heard it was bad. is it horrible? >> you should be watching "mad men." >> nicolle -- >> it starts very slow and very bad, but it ends well. >> does it really? >> yeah. >> okay, i've got to watch it then. >> who is talking? people watch television? i don't get it. a former cast member from the reality show "jersey shore," is that still on the air? was arrested yesterday at a new jersey tanning salon. >> the situation! the situation was charged after an assault following a dispute at a tanning establishment.

he's set to star in a new reality show about this same tanning salon and it's set to debut in july. he posted bail and was released from jail last night. >> so tanning salons, can we talk? >> looking like a cantaloupe. >> what would you do -- do you go to a tanning salon? what is a tanning salon? people lie in those beds with the light bulbs still? they do not! >> that kills you. >> that's very bad for you and people shouldn't do that. >> there are some people at this network that actually have tanning beds in their homes. >> no. >> i'm not going to tell you their names. brand new nbc/wall street journal poll show that some mixed results for hillary clinton out there if she does run for president. she's a clear front runner among democrats with three-quarters of democrats saying they'd likely vote for her. among all red shirt voters, her approval rating was in the 60s and 70s not long ago. only 38% said they would support her.

37% said they would definitely not support her. that includes 70% of republicans and 40% of the critical group of independent voters who said there's no chance they would support her. hillary clinton's big drop in approval rating, just 44% of americans view her favorably. she had an approval rating in the 70s, steve rattner. steve, look into that camera over there. we're going to pretend you're at a studio in washington. well, no, steve keeps turning around looking at me which would be the normal thing to do. >> we're not normal. >> i'm looking at the camera. >> i want to look at the back of your head. this is tv magic. she was in the 70s, steve, at the end of 2012. you're like the mayor of hillaryland, of course. what has happened that she's dropped from 70% approval rating to 38% approval rating in a year and a half? >> i think there's two things. first, she's out on the book tour so all of the past history, everything from monica to benghazi to everything that's

happened to her that people aren't happy about has come out and is being talked about. and the second is she's now a political figure again. in 2012 she was still a foreign policy official and so now people are saying to themselves -- 40% of this country would vote for anybody who's a republican, 40% of this country will vote for anybody that's a democrat and the fight is in the middle. >> that's why being a 38%, nicolle, very low. i'm shocked. >> i have a totally different theory. i think that the clintons are always viewed in a political context. i think she has always been viewed as a political figure, but i think that during the first president obama term, she was viewed as the more competent administrator of foreign policy and of her agency while they were bungling the health care law, she was viewed as competently managing the state department. now i think her numbers are most directly correlated to president obama's plunging numbers on foreign policy. i think her numbers are coming down because people are now seeing the effects of his

desire, stated desire to retreat from the world's hot spots. still ahead on "morning joe," the usda, agency of invasive species -- >> what? >> what? the national review's jim geraghty will tell us all about this government agency, its fight against weeds and if it's real. >> this is a fascinating book. >> that plus a look at what's driving the markets this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. keeping a billion customers a year flying, means keeping seven billion transactions flowing. and when weather hits, it's data mayhem. but airlines running hp end-to-end solutions are always calm during a storm. so if your business deals with the unexpected, hp big data and cloud solutions make sure you always know what's coming -

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brian: 25 years. matt: that's how long we've been talking about the most important social issues. savannah: education. al: conservation. chris: uniting the nation. jim: with a bit of imagination. the more you know.

36 past the hour. here with us now, blogger and contributing editor for "national review," jim geraghty. he's the author of a book called "the weed agency." it's not about pot. >> no. >> in the weed agency, jim, you write everyone that comes to washington intending to cut the government comes with some other goal as well, defense, abortion, schools, and everyone who likes the government the way it is has gotten very, very skilled at figuring out how to get us to focus on the other stuff. has anyone been able to do it? >> i'd argue no. >> i would too. >> it's one of those things where, look, in my lifetime we've seen three waves of republican come to washington saying we're going to cut the

red tape, cut the bureaucracy, and i don't think i'm being harsh to say it didn't quite work out. the democrats, even though you might say they're less anti-government, we're going to make the government do wonderful things. we're going to give people health care, it's going to work great. i think it's safe to say it's not working out quite the way they expected either. >> i think health care might work out better than you think, but just give it some time. >> the website worked great, right? piece of cake? >> how many people have signed up? they met goals. they met goals despite the worst rollout i think i've ever seen in my life. what is "the weed agency." ? it's not about pot. >> i don't think bill maher knew that. >> we got the "i survives bill maher" t-shirt. if anyone believes this is about marijuana, that's not a bad thing. they are the demographic least likely to return the book when they figure out it's not about

what they expected. we all know that the u.s. federal interagency working group on invasive species, we're an educated crowd and all familiar with this, right? >> right. >> yeah, of course. no, actually this is a real-life group. >> yeah? >> that involves eight or nine federal agencies, including nasa, by the way, helping take care of american agriculture and make sure that we don't have bugs and critters and weeds and things like this. >> can they come to my yard? >> nasa's involvement i think is very useful for the case of trifads or various other space weeds that might come and get us. much to my regret, this began during the reagan years and since then has grown and expanded and got a larger budget. for anybody who wants to get rid of it, it's been very difficult to uproot so you can see the metaphor of bureaucracy growing and spreading much like weeds. >> you take a satirical look at being anti-pork, but how do we get those people living up to the credo that they get elected

to be against, if they're against all this wasteful spending. >> i think all of us in the anti-waste and conservative movement -- >> you're not anti-government. >> i'm not an anarchist, per se, but we do underestimate the challenge here because all of the incentives are on the other side. if you set up a new federal program. look, we opened up a new office building. we got to name it after somebody. look at all these jobs i created. there is no ribbon-tying ceremony where you say we are closing down this federal office building, look at all these jobs we got rid of. >> kentucky is going to be renamed mcconnellland. >> can i ask you about the republican party because i don't know there are very many issues that unite us as much, not just as an establishment level but at the grassroots than this incredible frustration with the exploding growth of government, its cost, its size and invasion into our lives. why can't our political leaders get on board and get serious about it? >> because one of my characters in the book says that the idea

of the -- the anti-big spending movement is a mile wide and an inch deep. everyone likes it in the abstract. when it comes to a particular federal program, all of the support is concentrated because, look, that's your job you're worried b you have the federal workers, their family members, all the contractors to it. there's a very -- these are very intense people. everyone who likes small government generally likes it in the abstract. maybe until, whoa, my agricultural subsidy is on the line. i said cut bone marrow -- i said cut fat, not bone marrow. all the money that comes to me is important. i should actually specify, republicans need to live up to the conservative ideology of saying, hey, you know what, i don't need as much from government. we don't need to have everything in the state of mississippi named after trent lott, for example, that's a particularly good example of a republican who didn't quite live up to the small government credo. she was quick to insist it

was not mere lust that drove her to -- >> it's "50 shades of government spending." >> jim geraghty, thank you so much. up next, a new company about to jump into the smartphone business. will it be enough to make everyone stop talking about their iphones? i have stopped talking about my iphone. business before the bell is next.

woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him

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welcome back, everybody. we'll get to business before the bell with brian sullivan in a second but i had to show this really fast. >> what's going on? >> it is a great "tonight show" clip. kevin hart, the comedian, is taken by jimmy fallon for the ride of his life to maybe save

him from his fear of heights. i'm not sure if it worked. >> let's go. >> wait! >> no, no, no! [ screaming ] >> oh, my god. >> stop, stop! >> oh, no! end it!

>> you did great. >> i did good. >> you did great! >> let's just go. >> here's the good news. we're going to go again. >> we're going to what? >> one more time. here we go. >> no! no! >> can you imagine? isn't that great? fallon, the bug goes in his mouth. >> and to do it again, that's mean. >> i was sweating for them. >> i did the tea cup at hershey park, no good. >> dizzy. i agree. >> i almost got thrown off. >> that is a ride, guys, called the rocket at universal orlando and that's the worst possible ride for kevin because most roller coasters go up like this. that one goes straight up and literally you can like you're going to slip out backwards. it is thomas roberts' biggest fan, my daughter, that's the single biggest ride she's been on and that is cruel of fallon. >> it was great, though, and to go a second time. he's coming back and he's done.

anyway i think it's great. >> tell me about my phone, brian. >> well, we'll see. we'll see. amazon expected, it's not guaranteed, to launch a new smartphone today. it's very crowded space, mika. to your point everyone talking about their phones, either iphones or samsung. 3% have microsoft. it's a hard space to break into, and the expectation is that amazon will try to break into that space today. what would differentiate them? there's some ideas. amazon's goal is really not to make any money on a phone. it is to sell you more stuff on amaz amazon.com on the easiest way possible. it may have a 3-d display. let's say you got a sudden urge to buy a futon or water balloon sling shot. you could look at the product, rotate it, hit buy right on your phone. it might even tell you if there's a place nearby where you can get it through an amazon partner. everything is designed to drive you to buy more stuff through that phone. it's still going to be tough,

though, to see if it even happens. also the federal reserve meeting today. no expected move on interest rates. it's been three years now since anything has happened with the fed. one of these times something will happen. it's like the shoney's breakfast buffet. usually the same. once in a while something new appears and it's just delicious. >> shoney's? >> have you ever gone to their sunday breakfast buffet? >> have you ever been to shady buffet in pennsylvania? it is a football-field sized dining room with a buffet. all right, cnbc's brian sullivan, thank you. coming up tomorrow on "morning joe" a supermodel will be our guest. also actress alli wentworth is here. i love alli with very interesting new causes. get the seven-second delay ready for ali tomorrow. remember it didn't work once on this show. we won't make that mistake again. we'll talk about what they're up

to. "morning joe" will be right back. when folks think about what they get from alaska, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work.

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anyone paying attention to politics in washington knows the parties are finding very little to agree upon. the same can apparently be said for the american people. derrick hicks has the numbers in the mojo polling place.

>> reporter: much has been made of the recent pew research survey highlighting the fact the partisan divide in america is at an all-time high. according to the most recent gallup poll, the legislative priorities of democrats and republicans couldn't be further apart, with one exception. the overwhelming majority of both agree that correcting the issues at the veterans administration should be a top priority, but the agreement stops there. nearly nine out of ten of those surveyed believe congress and the president should prior oar ties veterans health care next year. the poll shows democratic voters want priorities to include increasing access to preschool, raising the minimum wage and reducing carbon emissions while the top three republican priorities consist of investigating benghazi, investigating the bowe bergdahl release and scaling back the president's health care law. with such differences in priorities, it's no wonder why congress has a difficult time getting anything done. for the sake of america's veterans who have served honorably and continue to do so,

let's hope congress can make an exception. guys, back to you. >> all right, derrick, thank you. big picture on the president's approval ratings we've been talking about all morning, what's your big takeaway of what you think is behind them? >> it has to be demoralizing and stunning because i know i was in that place for the white house to wake up to these plunging numbers on the foreign affairs front, an area where i think more than any other they fell completely victim to outside events. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. i'm meteorologist bill karins. it will be another day of hot, humid weather and then an evening full of dangerous thunderstorms. we're going to watch temperatures in the mid to upper 90s from the mid-atlantic region all the way up to washington, d.c., and then this afternoon into this evening, dangerous

thunderstorms are like reanywhere from the denver area, minneapolis to chicago and the washington, d.c., area tonight. have a great day. silver cd from capital one, you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase. not just "everything at the hardware store." not "everything, until you hit your cash back limit." quicksilver can earn you unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you could possibly imagine. say it with me -- everything. one more time, everything! and with that in mind... what's in your wallet? and with that in mind... when salesman alan ames books his room at laquinta.com, he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can check in and power up before his big meeting. and when alan gets all powered up, ya know what happens? i think the numbers speak for themselves. i'm sold! he's a selling machine! put it there. and there, and there, and there. la quinta inns & suites is ready for you, so you'll be ready for business. the ready for you alert, only a laquinta.com!

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i took responsibility for being at the head of the state department at that time. now, that doesn't mean that i made every decision, because i obviously did not, but it does mean that i feel very deeply and very personally about the losses that we incurred. we have to keep trying to figure out how we can be in dangerous places. i'm not one who says there's danger, so your responsibility is to get us out. no, my responsibility is to do the best job that i can leading a diverse group relying on security professionals so that we can be in the hard places to help make the hard choices. >> welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. that was a fascinating response, mika, which seems to bother you. >> no, i'm good.

>> i don't think so. >> no, i'm good. i learned that ali wentworth will be on tomorrow. if we can look at the control room. do you have the seven-second delay ready? >> you guys really need it. >> there's tape on that. >> does it work? >> we're not on delay right now. joe, we're not on delay right now. >> what did you learn? >> i learned david boies and ted olson have written a very from the heart book about their efforts to bring about marriage equality. people should read it. >> join the book club as well. thomas, what did you learn? >> so many things. >> really? >> so many things. >> really? >> most important, i leave for vacation tonight and so i've got vacation break. >> go. go on vacation right now. >> where are you going? >> berlin, venice and rome. >> you're kidding me! >> if you get an international call from a police house, have it ready. >> mika is big in berlin. they love her over there.

>> all right, fralein. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around now, because right now -- >> it's time for chuck todd. "the daily rundown" is next. taking the plunge. one foreign policy crisis after another drags down the president's popularity in our new poll. and hillary clinton, she may be the democratic nominee in waiting, but she's far from being considered a shoo-in for the actual presidency. plus, air strikes are off the table in iraq. top members of congress head to the white house today as the president moves closer to a decision on how to handle the current uprising. and we're taking tdr 50 to the nines. missouri senator claire mccaskill will join me on what you probably don't know about title ix. good morning from new york city, wednesday, june 18th, 2014. this is" the daily rundown." we'll also get a rare look inside