>> all right, fralein. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around now, because right now -- >> it's time for chuck todd. "the daily rundown" is next. taking the plunge. one foreign policy crisis after another drags down the president's popularity in our new poll. and hillary clinton, she may be the democratic nominee in waiting, but she's far from being considered a shoo-in for the actual presidency. plus, air strikes are off the table in iraq. top members of congress head to the white house today as the president moves closer to a decision on how to handle the current uprising. and we're taking tdr 50 to the nines. missouri senator claire mccaskill will join me on what you probably don't know about title ix. good morning from new york city, wednesday, june 18th, 2014. this is" the daily rundown." we'll also get a rare look inside gitmo, the detention

center at guantanamo bay, cuba. a packed hour of programming, but let's get right to my first reads of the morning and it centers on the new nbc/wall street journal poll. these foreign policy krieses of the last four month, from the civil war in syria, russia, ukraine, srergeant bowe bergdahl's release, they are clearly dragging down the president's job rating, eroding confidence in his leadership and even weighing down democrats heading into 2014. in our new nbc news/wall street journal poll just 37% of americans approve of the way the president is handling foreign policy. it's the lowest number of his presidency. 57% disapprove. that's a record high. it's dragging down the president's overall job rating. just 41% approve of how he's handling that. that's down three points from april and tied for the all-time low in our poll during the obama presidency. his personal rating is also underwater. 41% view him positively, 45% negatively and 41% approve of

what he's done on the economy. he hasn't been right side up on the economy in 18 months. all of this taking a toll on the president's public image. and in the wake of the botched health care rollout, the va scandal, he faces growing doubts about his competency and ability to lead. the country is split down the middle on whether the obama administration is competent to run the federal government. he gets a slightly lower competency rating on the same question from americans than they gave president bush's administration in 2006 and that was after the bungled response to hurricane katrina and the continuing violence in iraq. 41%, by the way, believe that over the last 12 months the performance of the obama administration has gotten worse. just 15% believe the performance has gotten better. and then here's the dagger to the folks in the west wing. a majority now believe that the obama presidency is essentially no longer capable of leading. 54% say he cannot lead the country and get the job any more with the rest of his term. just 42% believe he can still lead. on foreign policy and national

security decisions, 44% believe the bergdahl exchange for taliban prisoners was not worth it. just 30% believe the exchange should have happened. a stunning 65% say the war in afghanistan was not worth fighting, 65%. those numbers have always been there on iraq, but this is on afghanistan, folks. just 25% of americans believe the country is headed in the right direction. that's the lowest number since its government shutdown. by the way, this is the ninth straight poll where the right direction number for the country has been under 30% and it adds up to the longest sustained pessimistic reading of the country since 2008. given a president's job rating is one of the most important predictors of how his party will do in an election year, with obama in the tank this should be a slam dunk for the gop and yet the numbers do not show that 2014 is shaping up to be a 1994 or a 2010 for republicans. the gop has its own set of problems. bottom line, obama's numbers are worse now than they were in 2010

but republican numbers are also worse now than they were in 2010. once again the country has a more positive view of the democratic party than the republican party. although neither party is what you would call popular, it's been more than a year since the gop had a positive rating over 30%. democrats have a narrow 2-point enl on the control of congress question but you know they need something north of five to seven points to even remotely be looking at picking up seats. still, we're looking at a status quo election and how could that be? right now republicans have a 12-point advantage on voter enthusiasm. but the only group that is truly enthusiastic about voting inside the republican party are tea party republicans, and that of course helps explain why eric cantor lost and why senator thad cochran is probably going to lose next week. while the tea party is driving enthusiasm in the gop, it's also dividing the party. look at this number. 41% of non-tea party republicans, about half of all republicans, say the tea party has too much influence on the party. not surprisingly, 56% of tea

party republicans believe it has too little influence. here's another problem for the republican party, women. who are sticking with democrats more so far this year than they did in 2010. democrats now have a 12-point lead among female voters. at this time in 2010 they had just a one-point edge and here is the difference. it's white women. a 15-point republican advantage in 2010 among white women has collapsed to just 1 point now. despite the president's troubles, women are keeping the democrats alive in this midterm election. they side with the president on issues from immigration to education and the environment. 47% believe immigration helps the country more than it hurts. and despite a vocal minority which is dominating media coverage when it comes to education and common core, the education standards known as common core are popular. 59% of americans support them. by a 2-1 margin, americans say something needs to be done about climate change and a full 57% of

folks we surveyed approve of a plan to require companies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, even if it means higher utility bills for themselves. that's a fascinating finding on that front. let me bring in our bipartisan polling team. gentlemen, this poll, there's so much to dig into. bill, i want to start with you. let's start with the president. obviously this is as bad of i would say of a set of results that we've had for the president perhaps for his entire term and a half in office. >> yes, i think that's true. i think these numbers indicate the level of problems facing the president. we asked people why do you think the administration is not doing as well in the last year, and it's health care and the prisoner exchange and the va and issue after issue that has accumulated that has put so much weight on an already weakened presidency. it's just -- and we're in a

six-year doldrum and the president is not in an enviable position. >> you know, fred, what's interesting here is the fact that previous -- we've seen this in previous second terms, but it's been singular events that have taken them down, right? either temporarily or permanently. iran contra, watergate, reagan and nixon. you had the lewinsky scandal with bill clinton, you had katrina and iraq with president bush. it's not one or two events with president obama, it's this accumulation. and your partner, peter hart, said events are controlling the president. >> i think events seem to be controlling the president and i think in particular, chuck, it's events overseas which are harder to control. but i also think the results you outlined offer a way out or way back for the president. the bill referred to the open-ended question in which we asked our sample why do you like president obama's performance, why do you dislike president obama's performance. we don't see people talking about common core. they're not talking about

climate change. they're not talking about immigration. you know, those are the things that are still left on the table for this administration to get back the bully pulpit. >> bill, let's go to this issue. this isn't a full seesaw effect. if i had given you these numbers in isolation, the president's numbers, you would probably say it's going to be a republican landslide in november and yet there's something missing here with your party. explain what it is. >> well, first, 2014 is going to be a great republican year. i expect there will be pickups in the u.s. house and i think we will -- i think we have a very good shot at winning control of the u.s. senate. but look, people are really concerned about the economy. and the other thing that both parties are missing are the deep economic skepticism that people have about where we are and are you talking about issues of concern to me. and look, iraq and these stories are so important in this country, security, but that's not people's day-to-day life and i think both parties have been a little tone deaf to what people

want, an improved economy, people in washington working together, get something done, and talk to me about stuff in my life i care about. i don't think either party has done that particularly well. >> so, fred, you've got plenty of democratic clients that are on the ballot and they see numbers like this. do you run away from the president or do you look at this poll and say, well, geez, the president is down, it isn't a full drag on the democratic party. how do you manage something like that? >> well, i think my colleague, bill mcinturff is half right and half wrong. i think the democrats have a shot at keeping the senate. look, to democratic candidates all across the country, i think all of them -- all of us recognize this was going to be a tough slog for the party. historically these kinds of midterm elections are hard for the party that controls the white house. but look, president obama is president, he's head of the democratic party.

there are results in the poll, chuck, that show the african-americans, women, hispanics are still very much strongly part of the obama coalition. and i think -- and the part i agree with, bill, is we, we, hopefully both parties but more hopefully democrats need to start talking about the issues and priorities that have made this the ninth poll in a row in which below 30% say the country is off in the right direction. >> bill, i'm curious what you make of the -- we asked a generic three-way. we know there aren't many serious independent candidates but we do know there is a feeling of a none of the above or sourness on both parties. 27% number, the openness of the 27% to pick somebody else rather than the republicans or democrats when it comes to a vote for congress, what does that tell you and how would you use that in dealing with a client? >> well, the 27% are what i call the coalition. they're less educated younger guys in the midwest and west.

they're very detached from both political parties and they are very economically stressed. and so i think that it's not good news for corporate america, not good news for wall street. these are folks who are kind of -- believe that the economic power in this country is against their interest and i think it creates an opening for republicans to try to reconnect a broader coalition. and i think in some ways it means that the traditional republican party problem, which the richer the party, the big guys, that's kind of death to these folks and that cannot be where our candidates talk about, smell or feel if you want to create this majority coalition to combine those votes with corrine voters. >> it sounds like you're almost describing that interesting left-right populist coalition that both parties seem to be dealing with. very quickly, fred, the hillary clinton numbers, we're going to do a lot more later in the show on them. but it seems as if her numbers have come back down to earth, but they're still pretty good. how would you assess them?

>> i think, you know, look, whether it's reality or not, the public is viewing her, the press is certainly viewing her as a potential candidate for 2016. as all of us know from the polls, once you're seen as a political person, that automatically takes some credibility off of you. she's very strong with democrats. i think americans believe regardless of partisanship she's a strong leader. i think you would rather have these numbers than not have these numbers. >> in this day and age it's tough to be above water particularly if you're a politician. we've got a lot more to do with this poll but i've run out of time. thank you. we'll have all those clinton numbers from our poll, that's still ahead later in the show. plus new details about the u.s. military options in iraq as the president gets set to meet with congressional leaders later today. but first, a look ahead at today's politics planner. i've told you about the president's meeting with

congress. that's a big deal, of course. but the house foreign affairs committee will hold a hearing today on bowe bergdahl. and most importantly, for a bunch of people in washington, a bunch of my women colleagues, it's the congressional women's softball game. it's the media versus the politicians. we'll see who wins. gabby giffords is throwing out the first pitch, by the way, for that game tonight. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. i made this belt with traditional, bold, and peanut butter chocolate chex mix. you guys are cute! i've got trail mix, peanut lovers, chipotle cheddar, dark chocolate, hot n' spicy... turtle, cookies 'n cream, italian herb & parmesan, sour cream 'n onion, and brownie supreme chex mix. and it rotates. 20 flavors, lots of pieces. chex mix pick your mix. now try popped in white cheddar and sweet and salty.

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president obama will meet with congressional leaders this afternoon to discuss the crisis in iraq, and this is as much about listening, i'm told, to ideas as it is about telling him his plans. here's what i can tell you about the idea of manned air strikes. they have been just about absolutely ruled out. there's not going to be a shock and awe air strike campaign.

the administration has determined there just aren't operable targets. the problem with a terrorist insurgency is that the enemy is spread out. it's not as if you can attack a fixed military installation or something like that. instead the u.s. is looking at some combination of special ops, unmanned drone strikes. this is akin to how the u.s. fights al qaeda in yemen or between afghanistan and pakistan. as the administration keeps pointing out, the ultimate goal here is to see if there is a political solution to this problem, not a military one, so they want to convince prime minister maliki to undertake political reform. how to improve iraqi security forces so there could be more troops in iraq in some form if they believe a training component for these weak iraqi security forces is next. but whatever the plan the white house goes with, it's also likely to have a beefed-up syria component. that may include the talk of

arming the opposition, but they know they can't just deal with iraq and ignore somehow this isis situation in syria. the timing is still unclear, but the white house knows it needs to move fairly fast, but we're told not to expect anything today but we assume we will hear something publicly by the end of the week, perhaps into the weekend. back in iraq, the big fight right now is in the north. at iraq's largest oil refinery where sunni militants are on the verge of taking control of it. richard engel has the latest on things on the ground from baghdad. >> reporter: chuck, militants from isis are continuing their campaign and a strategy seems to be emerging. initially they were marching toward baghdad and they thought perhaps they were going to take the city. but the shiites have been prepared for them. they are armed up, they are ready for a fight. so isis appears to have changed its tactic. it is now going after key economic targets, key infrastructure. today a video showed what seems to be isis militants inside the oil refinery, the biggest oil

refinery in this country, also fighting in kirkuk as the militants are trying to take or at least damage the kirkuk oil fields. security officials tell us the next target is likely baghdad international airport. meanwhile president obama took a victory lap of sorts on tuesday over the capture of ahmed abu khattala charged in connection to the 2012 attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. >> it's important for us to send a message to the world, that when americans are attacked, no matter how long it takes, we will find those responsible and we will bring them to justice. >> after being picked up sunday by u.s. special forces, khattala has taken to the uss new york and is being interrogated aboard the ship by a special intelligence team. he will eventually be brought to trial in federal court. >> there has been a tendency in this administration as you know to treat this like a law

enforcement matter, read them their rights and get them a lawyer. i hope they're not doing that. the most valuable thing we can get from this terrorist is information. >> joining me now, california republican congressman ed royce, chairman of the foreign affairs committee. congressman, let me build on that point, what we just heard from mitch mcconnell in this critique of when khattala gets read his miranda rights. i'm guessing you don't have an update on that. but the idea that he's being interrogated on the uss new york, that seems to me in reading between the lines, they're going to do one set of interrogation before they read him his rights. is that what you're getting? >> that's the sense i get as well. >> are you comfortable if that split that the administration does, one set of interrogation and then do this in civilian court? i know you prefer it not to be in civilian court at all, but are you okay with that solution? >> let me just share with you some of my quick observations about the way this was handled. ansar el sharia and of course

khattala heads up the benghazi chapter of that organization, they took credit the night of the attacks for the attack. it then took us 16 months, 16 months to get them designated as a foreign terrorist organization. it took 19 months for us to take him into custody at a time we knew where his residence was and he was doing interviews with the press. they had had two attacks, two bombings there, so there's no question about his guilt, right? and now we're going to give him the full due process rights that we would give an american citizen. the question is if you do that, how easy is it to get information from him, how easy is it to send the message to his confederates that we're going to be able to pick them up as well. it begins to look as though the bureaucracy has weighed this down to the point where it takes a very slow turn of the wheels of justice to get anything done.

and this is an enemy combatant so there's a different attitude. >> well, my question is, and i'm about to go live to gitmo in a few minutes, but it's not like this military tribunal business is somehow efficient. hasn't the federal -- hasn't the civilian court arguably handled these terrorism cases in a much swifter way? >> well, i would argue that with respect to the civilian court and not granting the full due process rights, we do at the end of the day in the opinion of a lot of prosecutors have a better chance, though it's cumbersome, a better chance of getting actionable intelligence, and that's the question for me. >> so you're less concerned about convicting this guy. you just want the intelligence, whether we actually send him to prison in a federal prison or gitmo, you don't care? >> i'm fully confident that at the end of the day with his record and him being there on site and him helping direct the attack, we're going to get him

convicted. the question is who else can we get convicted along with him who's under him in his chain of command. >> all right, congressman. i know that you're going to hear more, there's going to be a briefing of congressional leaders and i assume key heads of committee. you're head of a key committee. air strikes have been -- we have multiple sources telling us that the massive shock and awe type of air strikes have been ruled out because of a targeting situation. i know you were somebody that called for air strikes. i want to get your reaction to that. >> yeah, there's been -- you know, for three months, at least since march, within our embassy, there was this concern that this organization was moving across the border from syria. this al qaeda affiliate was coming into iraq and there was an encampment. and the desire was let's hit the encampment with drone strikes. let's blow them to smitherenes. well, the executive branch ruled we weren't going to do that, the president made that call. some weeks ago the government in

baghdad itself said these columns are on the march. now is the time to hit these columns of al qaeda because they are encroaching, they're going to hit these cities and they're going to take these cities. again, the decision was made not to strike. again and again this request has been made and it's been denied by the president. and so for those of us that are concerned that they are increasingly getting access, $450 million that they took from the central bank in mosul, all of the equipment that they're picking up as they move, they need air support. that is what the iraqi military clearly need, and that can be done with drone strikes so both from within our embassy and the government in iraq, there's been this request. i still can't get that accepted so we have a difference of opinion. >> should one of the prices of america's involvement be maliki's resignation? >> well, i certainly am in agree with that, myself and elliott

engle, the ranking member, pressed hard on maliki on all of these points, about his bad governance and not being inclusive. at the end of the day our key concern here is an al qaeda affiliate led by a guy who said to americans when he was released from prison "i will see you guys in new york." now that is quite a threat from this individual who since then has made overtures for europeans and americans to come and train obviously with the intent to send them home. i think we've got to keep the focus on removing his al qaeda affiliate from the field. >> all right, congressman ed royce, chairman of the house foreign affairs. thanks very much. >> thank you, chuck. coming up, a rare look inside gitmo. plus, likability, honesty, what our poll shows about hillary clinton's chances in 2016. those were two of her toughest characteristics back in 2007. first, our trivia question. remember, the tdr 50 train is in missouri this week.

who is the only missouri congressman to serve as house speaker? first person to tweet the correct answer will get the on-air shoutout. the answer and more is coming up on tdr. we'll see you in 180 seconds. and if i tap my geico app here i can pay my bill. tap it here, digital insurance id card. and tap it here, boom, roadside assistance. on'tday ooklay, it's axwellmay. the igpay? otallytay. take an icturepay! onephay, onephay! really, pig latin? [ male announcer ] geico. anywhere, anytime. just an aptay away on the geico appay. feel like a knot. how can i ease this pain? (man) when i can't go, it's like bricks piling up. i wish i could find some relief. (announcer) ask your doctor about linzess--

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and the freedom of touch. and, of course, make it run microsoft office, with the power and speed to do real work. introducing surface pro 3. the tablet that can replace your laptop. back now with more from our nbc news/wall street journal poll. it could be the democrat party's 2016 juggernaut. but hillary clinton is hardly the president in waiting. it is interesting when you look at these numbers, when we asked are you -- would you vote for her. probably, certainly 38%. no chance 37%. so there are your partisan bases there. some chance, here's your large swing vote here of 23%. so while you think that from the media coverage you would think that she is the president in waiting and we saw that yesterday, on tuesday she ended

up defending her handling of the benghazi attack of the the whole point of her fox news interview was a public demonstration that he's ready to be a benghazi pinata and answer any and all questions about that attack. the fact that the interview came immediately after the capture of the benghazi suspect was incredibly lucky timing. >> i took responsibility for being at the head of the state department at that time. now, that doesn't mean that i made every decision, because i obviously did not. but it does mean that i feel very deeply and very personally about the losses that we incurred. >> by the way, in these various interviews yesterday, she said she opposes any formal agreement with iran to stop the sectarian violence in iraq. >> if there's going to be a real stand against these extremists who are worse than even is being reported publicly in terms of what they're doing and how they behave, then there has to be a different government. and i don't think maliki is the

person to lead iraq. >> well, she's calling for him to go. clinton once again made clear she disagreed with the president's original decision not to arm syria's rebels. >> i recommended that we do more in the very beginning to support the moderate opposition. we pushed very hard, but as i say in my book, i believe that harry truman was right, the buck stops with the president. and the president had very legitimate concerns. >> some people interpreted that as her way of throwing him under the bus. but on syria i think it was pretty clear she was always on the opposite side of him. back to our poll. clinton has never been stronger with democratic voters than she is now, but when it comes to the general election, she is not the biggest juggernaut as we said here, the 38, 37 and 23. let's move to some other aspects of hillary clinton, look at her positive/negative rating. 44/37. not bad for a politician but it has dropped since she left office of secretary of state, 56-25. essentially the halo effect of

secretary of state is completely gone. she is now being treated like a politician, still to be above water is an important point here. now, the other -- look here, you can see the views here. already she's starting to polarize. 72% of republicans now with a negative view. those numbers were only in the 50s during much of her time as secretary of state. but let's move on to some other attributes. does she share your values on issues. this is where you see when we tested the various attributes, she really has improved with democrats. in almost every one of these attributes, you'll notice something here. let me circle it. 15 to 20-point gains among democrats from march of '08 when she was in the heat of the primary with obama to where they view her today. for instance, shares your positions on issues, 20-point gain among democrats that's led to a 4-point gain. understands average people. 16-point gain among democrats, led to a 3 point jump among all voters. easy and likeable.

less than half of the democratic party at that time identified her as like al. that's up to 67%. this by the way is a number worth watching if she becomes more vulnerable during the actual campaign you'll see that number drop. honest and straight forward. barely 50% of democrats thought she was honest and straightforward. that number is up there at 75%. look at that, she's sitting at 38% overall. is that partly the clinton brand? is that partly somebody being a politician for 22 years? all right, we want to quickly set the record straight. yesterday we reported that the benger daily news had endorsed elliott engel's education plan. that is incorrect. they not endorsed cutler or his education plan. we apologize for that misconception, particularly the banner which really led, i think, folks to think that somehow the paper had already endorsed in that race. our apologies there. up next, we'll go live to

guantanamo bay, cuba, for a tour inside that place that you haven't seen before. much more on tdr right after this short break. (mother vo) when i was pregnant... i got more advice than i knew what to do with. what i needed was information i could trust on how to take care of me and my baby. luckily, unitedhealthcare has a simple program that helps moms stay on track with their doctors and get the right care and guidance-before and after the baby is born. simple is good right now. (anncr vo) innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

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♪ newly captured benghazi suspect ahmed abu khattala will not be headed to guantanamo bay, despite what some republicans on capitol hill want. the administration says it's committed to shrinking that prison population, not adding to it. in the eyes of most americans, gitmo should remain up and running. in our news nbc news/wall street journal poll, nearly 60% of americans are opposed to shutting down the prison. that's up from 52% five years ago. just 26% want it closed. that's down from 39% in 2009. that's when president obama initially promised to close the prison at guantanamo bay. he promised that he would do it within a year's time. >> promptly to close the detention facility at guantanamo

consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the united states and the interests of justice, i here by order. >> well, that order has never been able to be followed through with, but political and public opposition has kept those plans on the shelf since, along with legal questions about how to move the detainees, practical questions about where to send them and security questions about the danger they would pose once released of the it hasn't stopped president obama from trying to empty the prison anyway. >> i've been very clear about the fact that over time we're going to have to whittle away at the number of prisoners who were in guantanamo as part of this transition out of the war in afghanistan. >> of course that was president obama sitting down with brian williams just two weeks ago. now, while the prison is still open, it's not nearly as full as it once was. since it was opened more than 12 years ago, 779 people have been sent to the prison at guantanamo bay. right now that prison population is down to 149. 621 detainees have been transferred, while nine others have died while in prison. of those that are left at

guantanamo bay, 15 are considered high value detainees, the worst of the worst. among them are five accused 9/11 co-conspirators, including the so-called mastermind. they attended a hearing before a military commission on monday but the results may only serve to drag the process out even further. joining me now is nbc news producer and my producer normally at the white house, shawna thomas. she is our eyes and ears right now at guantanamo bay, cuba. so, shawna, tell me about this hearing and did we see any progress? >> a lot of progress, chuck. so this hearing is a little complicated but go with me. back in april what we learned is that the fbi approached a member of the defense team, asked him questions about other -- khalid sheikh mohammed and the other defense team, told him not to tell anyone. he did. we since learned at least three other members of the various defense teams were also approached by the fbi, and some of them months ago. what the defense says is that

this has created a conflict of interest situation and that they need to know more about the investigation that the fbi was conducting. what the prosecution says is the investigations are over and that since they're over, there's no conflict of interest. all of this goes to say that actually this hearing has absolutely nothing to do with whether those five men are responsible for 9/11, and it's another example of kind of the government slowing down the government from charging the guys the government think are responsible for 9/11. now, all of this comes in a much larger context of how slow this process is. in april, the 9/11 victims' families were really sort of upset that no more had gotten them closer to trial and they were arraigned two years ago. we still haven't reached trial yet. and no one knows when we are actually going to get to trial on these men. >> shawna thomas with a mind-numbing explanation. it was well done. the government slowing down the

government because of a government investigation. welcome to the bureaucracy of military commissions. shawna thomas, nice work there. with me now, edward mcmann, the lead defense attorney in the case of zachariah moussaoui who was tried in federal court. he also represented khalid matash in front of a military tribunal. you just heard that explanation from shawna. a government slowing down the government because of a government investigation, different entities. >> well, it's all the same entity. you can try to pick pieces out of it if you want, but the truth is that, you know, in a federal court, the possibility that an fbi agent would come try to interview a translator that worked for me or a member of my team is zero. i don't understand what even -- i'm not involved in that case so i don't really understand what's going on. >> i'm just curious sdpl-- >> it's ridiculous. >> did the fbi ever try to do

that to you? did you get evidence of the fbi trying to infiltrate your defense team? >> of course not, it's preposterous. i don't understand what they're talking about. if they have a belief that some member of a defense team has violated some rule, they can take it up with the judge. they can -- i just don't understand it at all. it just to me is a sideshow. gives you a good understanding of why nothing is happening and i don't think anything is ever going to happen in gitmo with any of those cases. >> obviously you believe the federal system, the civilian system has dealt with these cases a lot better than the military system. we're looking at the 9/11 co-conspirators, two years since they have been arraigned. >> it's been longer than that. the case that i worked on, i think the arraignment was in 2007 the first time and then obama promised to close gitmo and everybody left thinking it was going to happen. he terminated the first set of proceedings and nothing has happened, absolutely nothing has happened. there's no trial date, there's not even a semblance of a trial

date being set any time in the future. and you can see up in new york in the meantime, they have tried and convicted more than a few people that are charged with terrorism offenses with no problem at all. >> you know, it was interesting to hear congress, particularly some republicans, react to the capture of the man seen as the mastermind of the benghazi consulate attack and this issue of when to interrogate him and when to read him his miranda rights. there seems to be -- they're almost -- we don't care whether he's tried in civilian court, we just want to interrogate him. the guys that you have defended, do you believe that the interrogations were done pre-miranda rights and was that the right way to do it? do you feel like you have found sort of the right split here between giving some due process but at the same time helping national security? >> well, there's certainly a need for national security. the interrogations of moussaoui,

he wasn't really interrogated at all before 9/11. the 9/11 defendants in gitmo certainly were subject to very harsh questioning. but the courts have figured out a way to allow the government to collect their intelligence and then have them bring in a group of fbi agents, what they call a clean team, and do the interrogations all over again. look, chuck, the bottom line is from my experience that these guys are proud of what they have done. none of them are hiding what they did. they proclaim it in court. they stand up and say it every chance they get. and, you know, obviously it's important to get intelligence, but it shouldn't affect the ability for us -- >> let me ask you. do you think miranda rights matters to these guys? >> no. >> they're read their miranda rights and you get people excited. does that automatically make them clam up? have you had any experiences where these guys suddenly clam up after they have been read their rights? >> well, it's a hard -- the miranda rights are part of our constitutional system. i don't expect some guy from

pakistan to care about miranda rights at all. but, you know, i don't think that's really -- miranda rights are to stop people from confessing that shouldn't. these guys confess for the most part anyway. khalid sheikh mohammed, to crimes i don't think he did. >> he wants to celebrate what he did. >> moussaoui lied about what he did in court to try to agrandize himself. the judge was saying you don't have to testify, you don't have to say anything and off he goes to the stand and claims things that were actually ridiculous. >> based on what you know about the guys that are left down in gitmo, and i know you're not involved in many of those cases, but how many of them do you think could be tried in civilian court? >> well, the 9/11 defendants unquestionably could be tried in civilian court. i don't know -- in fact they were indicted in civilian court, so the government at one time thought so as well. but i don't know enough about the rest of the cases to really give you a good answer to that,

chuck, i'm sorry. >> no, i appreciate the honesty. ed macmahon, i feel like you're pretty blunt and tell it to me straight. thank you, sir. >> thanks, chuck. coming up, from the playing fields to college campuses, a new push to dramatically strengthen title ix to try to keep young women safe. first our tdr 50 soup of the day comes from the flat branch pub in columbia, missouri. they're serving up tomato mushroom bisque today. at the heart of where a lot of journalists get their start. we'll be right back. good job!

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missouri senator claire mccaskill asking shows to show her other protecting student of the tight ix. it does more than guarantee female athletes. how schools handle sexual violence in schools that doesn't comply could lose federal funding. they released a list of 55 colleges and universities under review for violations. 19% of undergrad women were under sexual assault. last week senator mccaskill the university of missouri announced their title ix coordinator will be a full-time job. a senator is somebody who know s title ix as well. i didn't know about the provision in it. is this something that just hasn't been enforced very often? is that what you found out? >> it's not so much it hasn't been enforced but widely

inconsistent among different university campuses. how they handle title ix complaints. frankly, the resources we're giving to this at the national level are not great. so there has been the luck of the draw for young women as to whether or not their campus was taking this problem seriously and using the administrative process to hold perpetrators accountable even though, in my view, we have to do a better job of holding them considerab in i the criminal justice system. >> what did you find out. is it too much fraternity stuff, sorority stuff, this is all it is? is that what is going on here. what is the enforcement falloff? >> i think there's been a lack of priority and focus on getting services to victims at the moment they report. so victims understand what the choices are and what they can do. whether they want to go to law

enforcement or whether they want to go through an administrative process. there is really just has been many instances, somebody with a clipboard we're going call you the title ix person and the focus was on swim sports. not only the title 9 provisions that deal with sexual harassment, sexual zrimg discrimination and sexual assault. >> what are you trying to do here? you want all universities to have full-time coordinators. maybe more than that just full-time, you know, sports is one thing but separate out the rest? >> i think we have to do a number of things. we're looking a the the long list of things we want to try to help universities do better. i also want to -- and a lot of that is about victim services. and making sure you have someone trained to investigate these cases and that knows how to do the interviews in a way that doesn't, in fact, scare victims away rather than encourage them to be transparent and hold perpetrators accountable.

but the other part of it, too, chuck, is making sure we don't overlegislate. we're giving universities so much paperwork they're more concerned with checking boxes and filling in reports than the underlying policies. >> that's been the biggest complaint i hear about title 9 in general. and going, i want to ask on the sports level, my biggest beef with title ix on the sports level that it aplies to universities but not preparing secondary school there's an equivalent title ix there essentially for high schools and middle schools when it comes to equal treatment for girls and boys. >> there are a lot of things wrong with title ix. there are a lot of things right with title ix. when i was in school there weren't girls athletic programs. >> especially in middle school. >> right. there are still a lot of things we need to do fix about title ix

and the safe campus act so they work together and provide more clear direction to universities. i think most universities want to do the right thing but are ill equipped. >> all right. i have to leave it there. it's it for "the daily rundown." next up the latest on iraq and benghazi. i'm meteorologist bill. another day of hot, humid weather and evening full of dangerous thunderstorms. we're watching temperatures from mid to 90s to washington, d.c. this afternoon to evening dangerous thunderstorms are likely anywhere from denver area, minneapolis, to chicago, even the washington, d.c., later on tonight. have a great day! so he knows exactly when he can prep for his presentation. and when steve is perfectly prepped, ya know what he brings?

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