welcome. and coming to you from orlando, florida, where i'm on assignment. first up today, we've captured the alleged mastermind of the a abenghazi attack. ahmed abu khattala has been c captured. how long do they have to interrogate him before they turn him over to law enforcement officials? >> there's a crux of the disagreement here. the intelligence folks can question him as long as they want. it becomes a legal issue. if they question him for a

really long time, then when the case gets to court, his defense lawyers can say, look, you questioned him for days and days and days and wore him down and by the fbi questioned him, his will was broken and so forth. there's no time limit, though. it's a balancing act for the government because when the intel people think they've gotten what they need or all they can get, they will step aside, they will give him a miranda warning and they will question him to build a criminal case. we don't know if that's happened yet. it doesn't seem likely, though, given -- especially given all of this criticism that congress hopes, republicans, anyway, hope that they will take the time they need for intel purposes. >> what about the question of venue? is there grounds to try him in a civilian court rather than military court? >> they can do that, of course. it's in the hands of the government, of the administration.

they could declare him an enemy combatant. that's what it takes. the president does that. and then he could be taken to guantanamo bay. but that's not going to happen. the administration has made it quite clear that they are not going to send anybody to guantanamo bay. they went out of their way to say the president or this administration hasn't sent anyone there since president obama was sworn in and that he will be tried in civilian court. so he's coming here within a matter of days, perhaps early next week to washington, d.c., where the charges were filed secretly last july. the trial will be here at the foot of capitol hill. >> it does seem important to make sure that we're getting away from the gitmo-style detentions. we'll see if there are calls on the hill that we go back to that. surprise, surprise, the debate is falling way, way, way along extreme policy lines. pete williams, thank you. we'll turn to the partisan divide on where to try this

individual and also very serious questions about how long it took to come to this question in bringing him to justice. on that question, i want to turn to maryland democratic congressman chris van hollen. let's look at the venue. should ahmed abu khattala be tried in the civilian court? >> no, we should try him in our criminal court. the military court system, there are a couple of questions. one is the legality of that and if you went through that system, there's a much higher likelihood that he would be released on appeal. number two, the track record in federal criminal courts has been much greater suck scess. why would we go the route that has the lower success rate than the federal criminal court.

>> i think this is a step towards the right kind of commitment to due process but it's causing waves on capitol hill. the livibyan government respond and said that he's got to be returned to libya to be tried. clearly, that's unlikely. what's your response to that in. >> yeah, that's highly unlikely. this is a person who committed terrorist acts against americans. we're perfectly within our legal rights to bring him to justice. the president said very clearly that if you attack americans, we will bring you to justice. we did that with osama bin laden. we're now doing that in this case. >> so what about this question of how long it took to capture khattala? he's been living out in the

open. in "the new york times" interview he was sipping on a frap. there were long stretches of where his location was known and he was transparent about it. it is problematic that we took so long to grab this guy? >> ronan, this is one of these cases where we have successful apprehension of someone we've been looking for and you get this silly talk, primarily on the right, that somehow the president was taking his time while waiting for the best political moment. this guy was in benghazi. it's in total chaos right now and you want to make sure that you do it without the americans going in to rescue him. and you want to do it in a surgical way and they were able to carry this out with that kind

of precision and got it at, relatively speaking, minimal costs, no costs to american lives. there are reasons to wait in cases like this. the other issue here, of course, is the fallout for the individuals connected to the initial attack hillary clinton is under constant siege. she has seemed to make an about-face from earlier comments that this was a settled issue. take a listen to that. >> there are answers, not all of them not enough, frankly. i'm still looking for answers because it was a confusing and difficult time. there are still some unanswered questions. it was, after all, the fog of war. but i am absolutely convinced that the united states and all of our professionals, including the congress, is piecing together the best information we

can find. >> congressman, does this recent state of developments add legitimacy to republicans who are on the hill saying that there are more questions and we need to keep hammering this issue? >> well, no. hillary clinton was referring to the fact that there are still some questions with respect to who exactly these bad guys are. there's no allegation that they are trying to cover up that fact. we now have had two full hearings and committee reports in the united states' senate, by partisan reports. we've had four committees in the house looking into this issue. frankly, the capture of this individual may provide us this kind of information. it's not in our custody right now, which is one of the reasons that it is important to interrogate him and to find out who else was part of this plot, who else was part of the attack, and certainly we should get more information through that route.

these hearings about based on this premise that somehow the administration is hiding information. and there's just no evidence to support that. so, yes, let's get information from the person we've now brought to justice but it's turning into a political circus and does not serve anybody's purpose. my father was in the foreign service. he served our country overseas. and it really is an injustice to our foreign service officers and others killed in that benghazi attack to turn this into a political circus. we should now be very pleased that we've achieved the objective of capturing one of the masterminds, apparently, behind the attack. let's now gather more information and go forward. >> right. it seems like we have a shot at real accountability. we hope the fingers point back

home. thank you for your time. >> thank you, ronan. we turn to a much more cheerful subject. kidding. we're going to iraq. the civil war is deepening. we're going to take a trip down memory lane with a person who knows all about iraq all too well. >> only iraqi citizens will be -- >> menacing in his tone but, frankly -- >> they are not going to hang you? >> i don't think they are going to hang me. i don't think they intend to hang me today.

[ male announcer ] it's one of the most amazing things we build and it doesn't even fly. we build it in classrooms and exhibit halls, mentoring tomorrow's innovators. we build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving america's veterans. every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help make their communities the best they can be. building something better for all of us. ♪

iraq is in chaos today.

back here at home, a familiar force mounting, a hawkish battle cry for intervention. haven't we heard this song before? on the ground, islamist militants remain on the offensive. let's go to aman. i'll start with you. how far have these militants advanced today? >> reporter: well, right now the fighting from the isis fighters has concentrated around two different cities. one is particularly the oil refinery in iraq but also in a city 35 northeast of the capital of baghdad. very strategic cities. the refinery, if it does fall into the hands of isis fighters, would give him a tremendous amount of oil resources and able

to control a lot of the domestic supplies. people are lining up at the gas station for hours because there's going to be a shortage of oil since the refinery has shut down. >> it seems like things are going from bad to worse. ambassador wilson, to understand the country conflict, we have to go back to that last rush of war. take a listen to this trip down memory lane. >> the british government has learned that saddam significantly sought significant amounts of uranium from africa. >> that triggered a rush into battle which you played a role in "the new york times" ad about nuclear weapons material. do you see a rush into conflict fomenting this time around, ambassador? >> well, what i see is the same people coming to the fore again

for u.s. actions which i think would be very ill-advised. >> and we've been hearing from all of those architects, wolfowitz, for example, bash being the president for his reluctance to go back in. how does it make you feel to see them pressing their case again? >> it's very familiar. these are people who blame others for their own mistake. i would have been more comfortable if they were speaking behind bars in haag, where they should be. >> what are your thoughts about intervention at this point? >> well, it's certainly not welcome news for the sunni population. today we heard from nouri al maliki. he tried to put a united front saying it's time for iraqis to put aside their sectarian differences and say this is not the work of iraqis but terrorists that are trying to affect the country and plunge it into civil war.

he was trying to strike a tone of national unity but at the same time there's no doubt that the iraqi government is needing help, perhaps paramilitary support and they are going to need more leverage from the united states if they are able to launch any kind of large-scale operation to reclaim territory that's in the north. they simply don't have the manpower to deploy thousands of troops from mosul to try to regain the northern part of the country. that's why they would rely on u.s. air power to allow for troops to advance into the north. highly unlikely that that's going to happen any time soon. >> the president is meeting with jo john boehner. let's listen to this bite sound. >> no, absolutely not. i can just imagine what our

allies will be thinking by reaching out to iran at a time when they condition to pay for terrorists and foster terrorism. nowhere in syria or libya but in israel as well. >> ambassador, you know the inner workings of this region so well and you know how complicated these divides between these countries are. should iran and collaboration with iran be off the table at this point? >> well, i think we should certainly be speaking to others because in the first instance, this is an iraq problem. in the second instance, it's potentially a regional problem. they are talking to the isis to try to release turkish bus drivers that have been arrested, taken hostage, basically. i think there are a number of things we could be doing diplomatically. i'm surprised that nobody has been talking about the arab league or united nations at any

level. i don't know what we are doing there. i think we should be talking to the turks. i don't think it does any harm to talk to the iranians in which we all want to stop this fascist notion but i think it would make it hard to make that trek from eastern syria all the way down to beji if they did not have the support of the sunni population and the report that i'm reading out of there suggests that what you're seeing is the isis forces, basically the tip of the sphere, supported by a number of the sunni tribes in the region. >> right. so it seems like iran -- >> so this is increasingly -- >> go ahead. >> it's increasingly looking like a sunny uprising. and the sunnis are not going to appreciate the iranians being on their land, that's for sure.

>> i think that seems to be the big fear, that iran could blow up sectarian tensions bigger than they are right now. ambassador, when we talk about this conflict that you're referring to from last time around, it was our leadership that we talked about, richard hall brooke was calling for intervention and it was also the media. people were daunting their hard hats and heading into the battle. do you think the media is being more skeptical this time around? >> well, when the media puts on wolfowitz and dick cheney and others who took us to war a decade ago, i don't think that's responsible. their advice is not worth anything. they are the ones that created this mess. they are going on television now simply to blame others for the mess that they created. i don't think that's very helpful to the public's understanding of what is really going on or how we should be

reacting. but if people like john mccain and lindsey graham want us to deploy air assets, they ought to sponsor a sense of the senate resolution, see how much support they get on the hill. >> and is there anything you want to ask ambassador wilson while we have him here? >> well, to be quite honest with you, i'd ask what could the u.s. do in terms of its support for prime minister maliki? is there any chance that the united states would say it's time to step aside? could there be a way in talking with iran to give somebody else a chance to make this more pluralistic or an exclusive government? >> i'm sure we could and i suspect our ambassador in baghdad is in close consultations with prime minister maliki about the way ahead. certainly he doesn't seem to be the man who has been able to

close the sectarian divide. on the contrary, he's certainly no nelson mandela. >> thank you both. this is fascinating. before we go to break, we want to show you a live picture of the white house press briefing room. jay carney says it's been an extraordinary gratifying job. he's been in that position for three years. we'll be following closely to see what comes next for him. up next, how is all of this international turmoil echoing back home, especially for our leadership? we're going to look at the new poll numbers about the president that have everybody talking. don't go away. like we're about to board. mm-hmm. i'm just comparing car insurance rates at progressive.com. is that where they show the other guys' rates, too? mm-hmm. cool. yeah. hi. final boarding call for flight 294. [ bells ring on sign ] [ vehicle beeping ]

who's ready for the garlic festival? this guy! bringing our competitors' rates to you -- now, that's progressive. [meow mix jingle slowly andright on cue.ks.] [cat meows] [laughs] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with 100% complete and balanced nutrition, and the taste, textures and variety cats love, it's the only one cats ask for by name. you wouldn't have it she any other way.our toes. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow.

cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about experiencing cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial.

♪ welcome back, everybody. it's now time for our underreported competition of the week. this is the part where we ask which story you think the media is leaving out and we're going to report it for you. this week's candidates that you selected, vanished in syria.

the score of workers, ordinary people that have just vanished in that bloody civil war. commercial drones is something that a lot of you wanted it to hear about. the faa approved commercial drones in alaska that are going to be used. we'll dig into that if that's what you want. and finally, working children. the devastating working conditions that children are facing farming tobacco. submit your vote at msnbc.com/ronanfarrowdaily. and ahead, hillary clinton out scouting her book campaign, or call it a book tour. that's next. we asked composits to map their process, they were a little bit skeptical. what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? ideas for improvement started pouring out.

with a little help from us, they actually doubled their output speed. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know... can help you grow.

seeing the world in reverse, and i loved every minute of it. but then you grow up and there's no going back. but it's okay, it's just a new kind of adventure. and really, who wants to look backwards when you can look forward? the presidency, turns out it's a pretty tough gig. circumstances right now are not helping. president obama's global challenges are piling on again and again. syria, ukraine, bergdahl, and

now iraq. according to a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll, it's put the president on the rocks. his approval ratings is down and his foreign policy used to be one of his strengths and now it's only at 37% approval. is this the nature of a tough foreign policy climate or a permanent referendum on the presidency? joining me now is david rode, john feary and rodell, a democratic strategist for senate majority reid. is there any precedent for a president dipping this low, particularly on the foreign policy front, and then dipping out? >> it's hard to say. presidents, ron reagan, you know, was wounded by iran

contraand then came out of it with breakthroughs with them. i think it's possible but as you mentioned in the intro, there's a large number of simultaneous foreign policy crisis that have really buffeted this white house. >> and david, given how intense these chrises have been, is it unfair how this is being characterized and how the public is lashing back? look at how stark chuck todd's charact characterization of this was earlier. >> i think the white house has made some mistakes but i think it's a respectable record on foreign policy. there were some errors, you know, people question this rose garden ceremony with the bergdahl family. on syria he sort of went back and forth. it was the red line and then he didn't carry out the missile strikes that he threatened. the substance of the policies is they think it's solid but there have been mistakes by a white house that is usually good at communications. they have been off a bit in

their message of foreign policy. >> that seems to be my sense. we have the chuck todd sound. let's listen to that. >> this poll is a disaster for the president. >> and then the issue is, do you believe he can still lead and essentially the president is saying that the presidency is over. >> john, we just heard, you know, david's characterization of this, that it's too stark and unfair, what's your reaction? >> i think it's going to be difficult for the president to turn this around. especially if the economy doesn't turn around and turn around in a big way. that's what helped ronald reagan and bill clinton with the economy, turning around rapidly and getting people feeling good about the country again. these foreign policy countries are sticking to president obama like velcro. every decision he makes -- you know, he thought he was going to get a big bump out of iraq and that turned out to be a disaster. every decision he makes is

turning into a bad situation for this president which is having an impact on his approval ratings. >> and john, do you think this latest news about benghazi is one step closer to justice in that issue will help at all? >> i don't think so. i think it raises even more questions about what happened in benghazi and that's what hillary clinton said yesterday. thank god john boehner appointed that committee to look into more about what happened in benghazi and that's going to be the investigation that probably hurts the president in the long run. >> rodel, you heard john saying that this is sticking to the president like velcro. do you see this hurting other democrats in november? >> i disagree with john regarding the president. i think this poll or any poll is a snapshot in time and it's not a referendum on his presidency but a referendum of what is going on right now. he still has a few years left and when the story is written

about president obama and his policy, it's going to be winding down the war in iraq and getting us out of afghanistan. >> and on the domestic front, those are all things that can move the needle in terms of the overall referendum on the presidency. we looked at the same poll, 45% of the respondents to the poll have an unfavorable view, compared to a 29% rating of people who have a favorable view. pretty stark. what do you say to that? doesn't that suggest that these are circumstances around the world being really tough and people are being disillusioned with all of the leadership? >> well, i think republicans have a big problem here. half of their party can't stand them. that's an issue going into the election. midterm elections tend to be about the president. i think that these votes will not be a referendum on the

republican party. they will be a referendum on the president's leadership and that's why republicans are going to do pretty well despite their approval ratings. >> of course, the bigger question is what is the effect on a big potential democratic candidate come 2016, hillary clinton, john mentioned some of her recent comments. david, those comments where she says she's still looking for answers, they seemed very sincere but they were also a bit of an about-face. she said it's not worth pursing the inquiries on the hill. why that shift in tone? is that a strategic move? >> it could have been. or she may have misspoke. i'm not sure she wanted to have the headlines saying hillary clinton, there are so many questions about benghazi. so it might have been a shift in tone. the broader strategic shift for hillary clinton is she seems to be the tough, the hard decisions and that she was hawkish about arming moderate opposition members and she's ready for the

presidency, the decision maker. so i think she might have misspoke when she said these things about benghazi zoo and she has to contend with the disillusioned leadership since she's linked with the administration still. rodell, we looked at that same poll and found a fall in her popularity at the moment at least. 37% said yes they would like to see her run for president and 37% said no, which is way down from where the numbers were. how likely is it that her inevitability falls apart at this time, rodell? >> i'm honestly not sure. to the extent that republicans have made it their mission to bring her down just day after day after day it doesn't surprise me that her poll numbers have gone down. at the end of the day, should she run and i hope she does, this is going to be an election between two people. this is not just going to be about hillary clinton. it's going to be about hillary clinton and who they manage to

salvage and get her through a primary should she win her primary. so, you know, for right now it is just about hillary clinton because there is no one else. but this will wind up -- this won't be a referendum. this is going to be like any election. this is going to be a choice. >> and it's certainly not just going to be about benghazi either. >> of course. >> even in her foreign policy accomplishments that i think can be positive for voters on benghazi. i think that she's dodging and weaving in the right way. she's been very sincere and made these fog of war comments which reflect what i've heard from people in the administration at the time, that they didn't know that information was coming in in real-time. we'll see how these investigations play out in the coming days and weeks. but right now it seems like her comments are resonating. she's humanizing it so much, too. that could be effective. listen to recent sound effects of her doing that, talking about the personal implications of this. >> one of the mothers said that she still feels all this time that she has not had sufficient

answers. how do you relate to her as a mother? >> oh, i totally relate to her as a mother or to any of the family members of the four americans that were killed that night. >> john, what do you think of those comments? do you think that that will resonate against the republicans who keep leading this charge against her? >> i think we all feel for the mother and parents of those people that were killed in benghazi but ultimately this election is going to be, is hillary a continuity from the obama administration or a clear break? if the president keeps going down this track and he has approval ratings like george bush, it's going to be awfully hard for hillary clinton to win an election and benghazi is part of that story but the bigger part is the success or failure of the obama administration and that's the complicating factor for hillary clinton. >> all right. a lot to keep track of here.

you guys were all very illuminating on this. appreciate it. >> thanks for having us. >> thank you. when we come back on "r.f. daily," the is it a knockout or a minor set back? we have all of the details when we come back. thit's not the "limit yoursh hard earned cash back" card . it's not the "confused by rotating categories" card. it's the no-category-gaming, no-look-passing, clear-the-lane-i'm- going-up-strong, backboard-breaking, cash back card.

this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every single day. i'll ask again... what's in your wallet? the shingles virus is already inside you. you should know that 1 in 3 people will get shingles in their lifetime.

the fire in iraq may have struck across the border for isis, the islamic state of iraq and syria. shiite fighters behind the brutal one of the darkest potential exports from the syrian conflict. mass rape. last year alone, the u.n. helped 38,000 victims of sexual assault or other gender-based violence in syria. those are reported cases.

likely the tip of the iceberg. so will this particularly dark side of syria's war also spill over into iraq? joining me with more, the director of women's rights division at human rights watch. you've been doing a lot of reporting on this. thank you for watching. rape is a significant and disturbing feature of the syrian civil war but describe to us the scope of the problem. how indemocric is this. >> ronan, thank you for having me. what we have found as human rights workers, we have invested significant resources in uncovering this conflict and uncovering many human rights violations that it's sexualized torture of both men and women in detention and it's happening opportunistically at checkpoints and cities andville ladies a vi.

we don't know whether it's mass rape or a military strategy and i don't think we know whether it's playing itself out in the same way that it has in other context like it has in the democratic republic of congo where we know much more about how and when rape is happening in that particular conflict. >> and certainly for the cases, do you think you can see a similar dynamic, to that extend, spilling into iraq? >> i think we have questions about the 38,000 cases and when they say they provided services this has been necessarily sexual violence and some conflict and context it could have been domestic violence and in syria i don't think he necessarily represents 38,000 cases of sexual violence and there's a

real possibility that it will happen in iraq. it would happen with most cases that we've covered. >> in looking at this unfolding conflict spilling over into iraq, is there a specific action that the systematic rape? >> the international community and the sexual violence and conflict. i think there are a number of actions that emerged. accountability is critical. being able to identify perpetrators and making sure that they are brought to range of services from the emergency health care to long term services for mental health and physical health consequences of rape. protection for women and men, i think it's important to note that we know that men and boys are also subject to sexual violence.

but protection for those victims who do choose to report rape, because we also know from our work that retaliation is a significant concern for victim who is are open about the fact that they have been raped or st sexually assaulted. and then finally, i think we need to talk about the way that rape changes the world because it happens in a context with significant inequality between men and women and that drives the fact that women are more vulnerable than men to rape. >> leisl, are you skeptical? i think you have been on the record that you are about the outcome of that. >> i think what it has done is it's important to note that it is the first international gathering that focuses specifically on sexual violence in conflict. it brought together fairly high level participants convened by the foreign secretary of the uk, william haag. i think we have seen very modest

km commitments by various governments about how much money they put into the prosecution services. but i think i'm waiting to see because we don't know how successful this was in the next two or three years where we see where those kmcommitments have been implemented. >> thank you for your time on this. we're asking all of you at home for help on this to get cross and end the violence. add it to the u.n.'s global maps of photos. it's easy. here's mine so you know what to do. tweet us with #timetoact. now an update on hazing. the makers of the anti-hazing act skyrocketed thanks to your contributions and taking a stand on these calls to action.

it's an important way to engage with these stories. still ahead, stick around for this. what's in a name? we dive into that big controversy on the redskins. don't go away. spokesperson: the volkswagen passat is heads above the competition, but we're not in the business of naming names. the fact is, it comes standard with an engine that's been called the benchmark of its class. really, guys, i thought... it also has more rear legroom than other midsize sedans. and the volkswagen passat has a lower starting price than... much better. vo: hurry in and get 0% apr for 60 months on 2014 passat gasoline models plus a $1000 contract bonus. [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue.cks] [cat meows]

♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

so turns out racial slurs, still maybe not ideal material for naming sports teams. the u.s. patent and trademark office just today struck a blow in the long, tortured fight over the name of the washington redskins. they canceled six trademarks for that name for being disparaging to native americans. to many it seems overdue. but is the patent and trademark office the right decision maker here? joining me now are william rhoden, sports columnist for the "new york times," and msnbc anchor craig melvin. good to have you both on the program. craig, for those viewers who haven't been following this battle closely so far, how did we get here? >> this is actually the second time this has happened, ronan. back in 1990, i believe, there was a group of native americans that made a similar claim and the patent office actually

tossed that ruling out on a technicality. but this is -- you know, this is undeniably the biggest victory for those who have been campaigning to change the name of the team and this does not prevent, we should note here, it does not prevent the redskins from using the name. it does not prevent the redskins from being the washington redskins right now. it does, however, limit their ability to protect their brand. and that is something that a lot of folks who follow the bottom line are going to be -- they're going to be paying very close attention to that. >> and william, we just heard from craig about that instance of it happening in 1999. that's something that actually the team is mentioning. they just issued a statement saying we've seen this before and just like last time today's ruling will have no effect at all on the ownership or use of the logo. is there any reason to expect that the outcome could be different this time? >> you know, ronan, what blows me away about this is for almost the third week in a row we've had a racist owner -- i'm sorry not a racist owner, a

potentially bigoted owner being tone deaf to the cries of the people. for the last month we've been dealing with donald sterling who's saying, you know, it's okay for me to be a bigot. now what you're doing is having daniel snide quloerks by all weights and measuresize going to cast himself as a liberal, going around -- he's brought up so many other native american groups, saying some of my best friends are native american, thinking it's okay. but i think -- by the way, 1990 was my first super bowl, and that's when i first became aware of this issue. i think what's happening now, though, as you mentioned is that now i think that the whole grounds in the country, we've had a gay football player, i think there's just this intolerance that's growing against either racist nicknames -- >> there's absolutely less tolerance for bigotry, and we're seeing this huge groundswell on social media just to that effect. one person just tweeted "thanks thought police. we should probably change that pesky first amendment to make sure no one gets their feelings hurt." another person tweeted "the whole redskins saga won't be over until each of their fans

issues a public apology for being horrible racists all these years." so you see a lot of extreme reactions on both sides. what do you think could harness that kind of a reaction, william, into actually making a difference unlike last time? >> you know, it's the people. at the end of the day it's about the fans. it's about the people, the consumer. and by the way, about journalists. i've stopped using the r word a long time ago. and i think that if we agree with it we as journalists, number one, set the tone by stop using the name. it's the washington team. the second thing is the consumer. the people speak. once people stop consuming the product, when the people begin voicing their -- and by the way, that's going to be a big problem. that's going to be a big problem. >> the top-selling jersey in all of pro football from march 1st, 2012 to this year, to march of this year, robert griffin iii, rg3. and that's a big deal. i mean, if you start to see a

lot of folks who say you know what, i am going to protest, i'm going to boycott by not buying the jersey of a washington football team member, then you're right. >> that's a tough sell. >> that's going to move the needle. and here's the other part of this. and this is something i don't think a lot of folks talk about. if this were a football team that was in seattle or a football team that was in a much smaller city and it did not generate the kind of revenue -- because the name itself, i mean, next to the cowboys, arguably the steelers or the -- i mean, it is one of the most profitable brands in all of professional sports. >> it's just an unfortunate brand. >> yes. >> just imagine -- but we're having the same problem in rap with stopping people using the n word. so you have two groups not perceived to be power groups. and i think that's what this is. this is about power. there are a lot of groups, italian-americans, jewish-americans, but you will not get away with slurs. >> let's talk about not getting away with the use of this particular word. i mean, craig, we've been using

it across our air. we do say the word. i've found fascinating, william's suggestion just now that actually journalists should ban it, that we should be saying the r word. what do you think, craig? >> i agree. and i've said that before. i just used it. but -- >> but from this point on we're on the clock, right? we're on the clock. >> i know. shame on us. we'll see how it plays out going forward. msnbc's craig meflin and "new york times" sports columnist william rhoden. really fun to have you both on. >> thanks for putting me on the spot. >> you can watch craig's show weekends here on msnbc. always a pleasure to see him in action. and that wraps things up for today's edition of my own show. thank you for joining me. you can catch this show 1:00 p.m. eastern time every weekday here on msnbc. and up next, "the reid report." my excellent colleague, joy reid. don't go away. it's time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. when ken knight left the army he decided he wanted to help other veterans assimilate into

civilian life. sew started knight solutions. the contracting firm hires returning veterans to maintain and renovate military cemeteries. for more watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

i got more advice than i knew what to do with. what i needed was information i could trust on how to take care of me and my baby. luckily, unitedhealthcare has a simple program that helps moms stay on track with their doctors

and get the right care and guidance-before and after the baby is born. simple is good right now. (anncr vo) innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

good afternoon, reiders. i'm joy reid, and this is "the reid report." as storms rage across the middle of the country, things heat up in d.c. over iraq. >> there's a need for immediate action. there's a need for immediate action. >> president obama and america will meet this threat head on without the advice of wolfowitz, cheney -- >> i'm anxious to see what plan he may have. >> what i'm looking for is a strategy. >> we can't dictate outcomes. it's up to the iraqi people. >> within the next hour president obama will meet with top congressional leaders as he weighs his options on iraq. then, i told you this would be the summer of benghazi. even with the capture of the suspected mastermind in the 2012 attacks, the right just can't stop biting. and it's probably at least in part because health care is working. we'll take a look at the successes of the affordable care act with james roosevelt jr., the grandson of fdr. one hour from now party leaders

of both the house and senate will head to the white house to meet with president obama and discuss his plans to stem the growing sectarian violence in iraq. and while the white house appears to have ruled out conventional troops and manned air strikes, drone strikes and other military options are still possibilities. as the insurgent forces inch closer to baghdad. earlier this morning house speaker john boehner took aim at what republicans say is a white house that is late to the crisis. >> the president's been watching what we've been watching for over a year. as the situation in iraq continu continued to be undermined. and yet nothing, nothing has happened to try to reverse it. i'm hoping we'll hear something today. >> today the sunni forces led by the islamic state of iraq and al sham took control of iraq's largest oil refinery with reports that baghdad international airport may be their next target. joining me now is michelle fluornoy, co-founder of the center for new american