>> dana's point, he looks like a jew, forget it. thank you both. that is all for this evening. the rachel maddows show starts now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. on december 19th, a united states senate candidate was at his home minding his own business when he heard a knock at his front door. he later explained to the newspaper that when he peered out the window of his house, he recognized the local police officers of the lusk police department. he noticed the police officers had others with them. the candidate told the paper, at first i thought they were there to take me to a fema concentration camp to kill me. the local police did not take him to a fema concentration camp nor did they kill him. it was the local employment at the door. accompanied by officers from the

united states secret service. that's because what they were there to investigate at the house of this candidate for the united states senate was an alleged stash of counterfeit $100 bills. in the small town where the senate candidate lives, people had apparently found what sort of looked like hundred dollar bills, and they had actually tried to use them around town. u.s. currency is a federal thing in this country. when you come across counterfeit bills. criminal complaints about that sort of thing do tend to go right to the feds. this is a federal matter when you're talking about money. the secret service took part in that counterfeiting investigation. now, the senate candidate in question, his name was thomas bleming, he was charged. when they went to his house, they found $20,000 worth of fake currency and fake $100 bills in his house. ultimately, he was able to successfully claim it was a big misunderstanding, about three months after they showed up at his house, the charges were

ultimately dropped. he later explained to the press, that those fake $100 bills that were found in his house, they were not intended to look like real marriage american. that money was just souvenir stuff he brought home from some of the time he spent working abroad in cambodia and vietnam. as a soldier of fortune. because that is what he said his job was before he came back to wyoming, to run in the republican primary for the united states senate. he says he has been a soldier of fortune fighting wars for money in togo and panama and burma and independent nearby yarks he told u.s. news last year, i assassinated a guy one time. i can't say where, but he had it coming to him. and that's kind of the way he's been campaigning for the united states senate. it looks like there's no reason that mr. bleming will not be on the ballot. running against mike enzi when the wyoming senate primary happens in august. i should tell you in a sort of

remarkable twist, mr. bleming, the soldier of fortune guy there, he now says that his campaign platform for senate, he says, my campaign is all about the right to marry who you want and to light up a joint. he says, there's so much hate in the world and a little bit of love won't hurt anybody. i believe in total freedom and having a good time. my campaign's all about that, there's been so much stress and violence in this country. people are killing their neighbors, kids are killing their kids. maybe they need a little marijuana cigarette, maybe that would help settle things down. maybe. take it from me, the guy with the rocket propelled gras dmad in burma. chill out, smoke a doobie, i'm an assassin. that is pretty much the competition for mike enzi -- who otherwise in this kind of a year, he might be expected to be

facing some kind of robust well funded challenge in his home state from his right flank in the republican primary, right? how different is he from thad cochran or any of these old time guys who have been facing the tea party challengers this year, it's wyoming after all, it's a conservative state. mike enzi did have a very big named challenger who was going at him from his right, trying to take his senate seat from him in a republican primary in wyoming. in january, mike enzi was going to have to run to hold on to his senate seat in the republican primary against dick cheney's daughter. this is one of the weirder things that has happened in this election cycle for these midterms this year, it was weird when the story started, it was weird when it ended badly, it's now even weird in retrospect.

liz cheney has been living in the washington, d.c., area, in virginia, for many, many, many years. last year, unexpectedly, she moved back to wyoming, she made claims that she had been living there all along, she declared she would run to unseat mike enzi, it was a surprise announcement, everyone in wyoming politics, appeared to be blindsided. liz cheney appeared to have lined up no support in the state at all, before she made the announcement, that she was going to try to topple the republican senator, right out of the date things went sort of poorly. particularly her efforts to portray herself as a regular down home wyoming gal, who had always lived there, she got into some trouble with that right away, when she tried to buy a wyoming resident fishing license, even though she had been living in virginia, until about five minutes before, so she didn't meet the residency requirements to get a resident fishing license. if you live in a big city, this may sound like a small matter. in a hunting and fishing state like wyoming, where basically official responsibilities of the state's governor every year go on a one-shot antelope hunt, screwing up the fishing license

thing, specifically around your residency requirement, when nobody believes you are a resident in wyoming, that was a bad step. the fishing license thing, got a ton of publicity in wyoming, right after liz cheney announced she was running for senate. and it only bolstered the existing presumption that she really did not know much about wyoming, she had never really previously cared much about wyoming, and she was looking for some state, somewhere in the country where she could run for office, get the maximum help from her very famous family name. and then it also did not help that her very famous family could not keep themselves out of

the news about her campaign or what turned out to be its many weird and melodramatic plot developments, like, say, take this headline from the casper star tribune. lynn cheney told me to shut up. lynne cheney is liz cheney's mom, dick cheney's wife. this story made the national press too. lynne cheney told me to shut up. summarize this, there was some sort of dispute between wyoming u.s. senator allen simpson, and liz cheney's mom, at a liz cheney campaign event sort of? regardless of the details, a shut up was allegedly thrown. he later said it was three shutups that was denied by the cheney's side, but later confirmed by witnesses who say they heard the shutups, then the cody enterprise newspaper posted a photo of the alleged shutup happening at the event. after liz's mom denied she really did say shut up, allen simpson wrote a statement to the newspaper saying lynne cheney

was telling a bold faced lie. this is allen simpson talking. that's one bold faced lie. i've never been called a liar before and it won't work this time. i know folks can get into the old pitch of he said she said, so i'll just leave it to the good people of wyoming to know who is telling the truth here. i lay my reputation flat on the line. whatever, whoever, ever. the exclamation point is in the original, it goes on to say, in public life, i have been called everything, and that goes with the territory, it's a contact sport, i've been called fool, idiot, boob, greenny, slob and you will the relate. that is fair in politics, but what is not fair -- seriously, it goes on and on and on and on and on for more than a dozen paragraphs, and this is in the paper in wyoming.

this was the character of the liz cheney senate campaign in wyoming. wyoming's not that big, mom, did you have to? apparently mom had to, and it went on and on and on, and then it was time for more drama, liz cheney has a sister, her sister mary, is openly gay. and as conservative as dick cheney has been on everything else in the world, dick cheney has always been fairly progressive on gay rights. he sighted his daughter coming out, living an openly gay life when defending his position on gay rights matters. when liz cheney announced she was running for senate in wyoming, she decided broadly that the only way to win that senate seat would be to position herself far to the right of the incumbent. far to the right of mike enzi. one of the things she decided to attack him on was that he was too soft on the issue of gay rights. liz cheney herself went on the

fox news sunday tv show and apparently for the first time ever in public she said, after she had started this campaign, that she herself was against gay marriage, she thought it was wrong, apparently she does not give her gay married sister a head's up before making that announcement, and then it went like this, things erupted on sunday when mary cheney and her wife were at home watching fox news sunday. sister liz cheney appeared on the show and said she opposed same sex marriage. taken aback and hurt, mary cheney took to her facebook page to blast back. liz, this isn't just an issue in which we agree, you're wrong. then mary cheney's wife went further, touching on her relocation from northern virginia to wyoming to seek office. liz cheney is already facing accusations of carpet bagging. i can't imagine how liz would feel she found out her family was protected in one state but not the other. yes, liz, she adds, in 15 states

and the district of columbia, you are my sister-in-law. i am your father. mary cheney, then actually did a follow-up interview with politico.com, about her sister's plitly motivated change of heart on this gay rights issue, and how there would be no cheney family holidays this year, she explained how she would not be supporting her sister's candidacy. then dad and mom decided to further the matter by coming out publicly to take sides between their two fighting daughters on this issue. they decided that they would publicly side with liz cheney, the one who after all is running for office. trying to appear to be more anti-gay than the incumbent republican senator she was trying to topple.

in this fight between their daughters, they came out to support the anti-gay one who was running for office. are we having fun yet? this was the liz cheney senate campaign in wyoming. she declared it all over in january. liz cheney withdrew, thus clearing the way for the guy with the rpg who thinks you need a joint and we may have a little love. liz cheney's last foray into politics was basically a short lived comedy of errors mass car aiding as a wyoming senate race. but liz cheney has been around a little bit, in her other forays in public life, have been pretty poorly received. when her father was vice president, she did get a job at the state department. and then in 2006, so in the second bush term, where vice president cheney's influence started to wane, the biography about dick cheney, angler, goes into his efforts to start a new

war against iran, were thwarted. while he was still trying to hold on to that influence and advance the idea of bombing iran, liz cheney at the state department was in 2006 appointed to head up a secretive group called the iran/syria policy and operations group which was widely seen as basically the starter war with iran planning cell inside the state department. it was a secretive group, the most information that was ever published about it was after it had quietly been shut down, even though there had been no contemporaneous announcement about it being shut down at all. the bush administration and the state department didn't want to talk about it until it was gone. liz cheney's iran syria policy and operations group existed for a year, and then they did away with it, not only did they not get the war they wanted with iran, they got pretty publicly and embarrassingly disowned by the bush administration, the bush administration made a half

serious effort at trying to make the thing go away without ever really acknowledging it existed in the first place. incidentally, condoleezza rice was secretary of state at the time that was happening, she was back at the state department today having her official portrait unveiled. no cheneys were in attendance for that. after liz cheney's unpleasantness with the iraq war planning group at the state department and getting shut down, after that unpleasantness at the state department, once president obama was elected, liz cheney formed another group, called keep america safe, the group founded in 2009 to advocate with war with iran, syria, korea, more war with iraq, afghanistan. and a fake gesture at a war with china. keep america safe was the group that tried to stoke the ground zero mosque controversy, right?

i went the to cpac in 2010, i picked up a bumper sticker, i was looking for liz cheney, i didn't find her, i found her bumper sticker that said gitmo saves lives. they tried to advance this meme, the al qaeda seven. lawyers in the justice department who had worked on terrorism and detention cases after 9/11, those lawyers themselves must be al qaeda terrorist sympathizers if they ever worked on terrorism cases. that was even a step too far for many conservatives, liz cheney's group got denounced for that by michael mukasey and kenneth starr, remember him from the starr report? chief council of the security council under george w. bush. all these conservative lawyers who might otherwise be on the cheney side of things on national security issues. they were verbally and vocally

disgusted by liz cheney's group keep america safe. their al qaeda seven stuff. and that keep america safe group ended up as host not found. the group ended up quietly dissolving. interestingly they never announced it was shutting down, they never announced it was going anywhere, you can find their youtube clips around, their website goes into redirect nowhere land. they just evaporated without saying a word. they never said good-bye. think progress went looking for them sometime last summer, noticing their e-mail and voice mail links appeared to be dead. the think progress folks tried to find the liz cheney group physically, an attempt to visit keep america safe's offices to discern whether the group is active resulted in a trip to a ups store in downtown washington, d.c.. it's a very safe ups store. that was the last thing liz cheney did before her senate race.

that one folded up and slithered away. and now, there's today and oh, look, you're still here. dick cheney in a cowboy hat and liz cheney together today decided to bless us by launching a new organization to advance the cheney way and presumably to give liz something to do. the group is called alliance for a strong america, they launched today with this op ed in the wall street journal with a press release that was published as a column at the washington post, also they published this web video. and they also posted this web page. and dick cheney is a former vice president of the united states and as such, stuff he does inhair enltly has some heft and gets some attention. there is a minor league field to this new thing they're doing. they do misspell their own family name on the website.

no apostrophe, unless what we're about to learn is something about something you possess. you don't need to -- they also seem to have been in a real hurry with the website planning over all. the group is called alliance for a strong america, if you type it in, what you get is this, a white page that says page ok. if you go to alliance for a strong america, again, that's the name of the group, if you go to alliance for a strong america dot com what you get is this, it was just set up today in response to dick and liz cheney. a strong america.com tells you not listening to dick cheney, wrong on iraq since 2002 when he pushed for war, why listen to him now. you can click the video and hear dick cheney explaining why it would be a terrible idea to invade iraq and topple saddam. they have this big nice list of dick cheney quotes from before the iraq war. the things he lied about, or that he was disastrously wrong

about, it's been pretty well confirmed that the 9/11 hijacker met with a senior official in prague last april. that did not happen. dick cheney in 2002, there's no doubt saddam hussein has weapons of mass destruction, that was not true. dick cheney in 2003, my belief is, we will in fact be greeted as liberators, i think it will go relatively quickly in weeks rather than months. dick cheney claiming repeatedly that iraq was behind 9/11, al qaeda and iraq were working together. dick cheney saying in 2005 that iraq was in his view, in the last throws of the insurgency. really? 2005? that's what you'll find at allianceforastrongamerica.com. on the day that dick and liz cheney launched alliance for a strong america.

the dot org is nothing. alliance for a strong america dot net, we actually bought is that one today as a favor to the cheney family, to make sure it doesn't fall into nefarious hands, we are keeping that website safe for the cheney family. if you go to the site, it will redirect to what i thought would be a convenient place ep holder for the cheneys, it's the place you would go in wyoming to get your fishing license if you wanted to do it the legal way. it's very easy, they're clear about what the rules are. the actual website that they did set up today without buying any of their other domain names is strongeramerica.com. if you forget that, you end up at a website of a totally unrelated pac. i don't know what this is. strongeramerica.net goes to a blank page. it doesn't sound like anything in the name of the group they found today. lots of iraq war architects are

circulating in the press right now, lots of iraq war cheerleaders who made false statements and wrong predictions are all now still around being quoted again. insists on expressing their opinion over questions about u.s. military intervention in iraq now, and all of these folks from john mccain to lindsey graham so bill crystal, judy miller, and all of them, they're all really testing the limits of whether there really are no consequences for foreign policy disgrace and failure, as long as you're pro war in this country. the country honestly, a significant portion of the country is convulsing at the sight of these people as we try to have a reasonable and informed debate now about what to do in iraq now, and they continue to pollute it with their unapologetic presence. but the cheneys?

for them, for dick cheney in particular, for dick cheney and his daughter, it's almost at a different level. it's almost at a level that approaches parody. their op ed in the wall street journal today is about war in iraq and accuses the obama administration about misleading rhetoric in iraq. really? that guy's upset about misleading rhetoric when it comes to iraq? the cheneys reemerging today is the biggest story in republican foreign policy today, i think republicans are starting to feel nudgy about having no one involved in iraq. dick cheney and liz cheney with this foray today, they are telling the republican party to not be embarrassed about what happened. embrace it, run with it, demand everyone listen to you again on this subject. is this just an effort at

political and public rehabilitation for liz cheney, because she has nothing to do now, and she has just suffered through a string of embarrassing failures in trying to become a public figure? is this about advancing a new generation of cheney leadership for the nation? or is this not about the future? is this about the past? is this part of a larger project to vindicate the cheney legacy, to try to put a shine on dick cheney's unpopular tenure as vice president. most importantly, though, who listens to this stuff? from the outside, it's ridiculous, right? seeing dick cheney in a cowboy hat and liz cheney telling us they know what to do in iraq, is like watching a particularly humorless satire in a student theater production at hemp state in 2004. nobody would accuse the cheney family of something this on the nose, this brazenly obnoxious, unless they did it themselves. but they did it themselves, there they are, and from outside, it's crazy, laugh out loud territory. but from the inside, does it

work? does it work inside the conservative movement? do they have an audience? is there a wing that is a cheney-ite wing, where something like this is reviewed as a bizarre family craft project? plus, get the droid maxx by motorola for 0 down. get more with our best plans on the best network. for best results, use verizon. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit skeptical.ss, what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? ideas for improvement started pouring out. with a little help from us, they actually doubled their output speed. if you just need a loan, just call a bank.

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today to snap some noncandid pictures of president obama and the four congressional leaders from both houses. john boehner, nancy pelosi, before they had a closed door meeting today with president obama about the absolutely terrible situation in iraq. iraq has requested u.s. air strikes to help in its ongoing struggle against sunni militants there. the united states has agreed to send 275 troops who will be combat equipped to protect american assets and lives in the region. the president updated the leaders today. the president asked each of the leaders for their view of the current situation, and pledged to continue consulting closely with congress going-forward. whether or not the president or congress decides to take any sort of military action, those decisions right now, that's all happening in washington now against the backdrop of a lot of republicans, political backdrop of the reemergence of the iraq war cheerleading team from 2002

and 2003, dick and liz cheney today, former vice president and his daughter today announcing themselves back on the scene with an op ed, a press release, a new website and a video, announcing they would be forming a new organization to try to keep alive the cheneyite faction of war. how is that going to affect things in washington now? joining us now is barton gelman, author of angler, the cheney vice presidency, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> let me ask the most present question first, which is, whether or not will is a strong and willing audience now for dick cheney and his efforts to not just keep his ideas alive, but to put a shine on his legacy as vice president. >> you know, there's so many levels to what cheney did today,

it could be, let's blame someone else for this strategic tragedy that iraq became. history would judge, and he might like to influence that, he really does want to affect current policy, current politics, and this could be seen as a shot across the bow of rand paul, for example, and other parts of the multifaceted civil war inside the republican party, one of its dimensions are foreign policy. he doesn't want an iraq war 3.0. he wants the muscular policy he saw himself leading behind that, to carry on. >> the -- as somebody looking in on this from the outside, the lack of self-awareness for what it takes for somebody with vice president cheney's record on iraq, to accuse someone else of misleading rhetoric in iraq, i talk a lot, but it renders me

speechless, is that self-conscious? does the vice president in your view, in your reporting on him, do you think he recognizes or can see at all the way that he is seen by other people? does he know why he had a 13% approval rating when he left office? >> well, he thinks he had a 13% approval rating because the american people didn't understand what it takes to protect them. he's convinced of his rightness, he thinks the public is fickle and not very well informed. and he, therefore, uses a fairly sort of blunt hammer in trying to form public opinion. not as blunt as other members of his family. in the cheney family, he is the moderate, the subtle new answered guy, this wall street journal op ed today skated right up to the line of the emotional power of accusing the president of treason, it's always hedged, he seems to be indifferent to

america's enemy, he's either blind or indifferent. he's -- he seems to be ushering in iran into iraq. there's always some little bit of a hedge, if liz chaining were writing that on her own, all that stuff would be gone. >> in terms of the substantive legacy of the cheney vice presidency, and especially with regard to war. as the president and congress grapple with whether or not the united states is going to do something else militarily in iraq now, is there substantive legacy of the way that cheney changed the approach to war as american policy? that the united states now has to decide whether to walk back or continue with? >> well, one of cheney's big strategic objectives was what -- the people in his office, internally called the demonstration effect. that by coming in and squashing saddam hussein, the united states would demonstrate its power. that depends on the outcome. a decade later, and well over 4400 americans dead. no one can see what happened as a victory, the bush administration did not hand over to the incoming president use of

iraq all sort of nicely wrapped up in a bow, problem solved, mission accomplished. they left with a big mess on their hands, and it was cheney's idea in the first place, he did not want a long term occupation, he wanted to stand up a government to stand up security forces and get the heck out. it is he who made the bed with one of the shiite dominated government, he hoped it -- they settled for maliki, it didn't work out. they're repeating the fruits of the policy he created. >> which outrages him greatly. >> it's a remarkable time we're having, i feel like i've got my

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behold, the single greatest photo caption in the whole photographic history of american political campaigning in the 1990s. the best. the photo is from 1996, it's from the associated press.

it's not dancing. it's what seems to be a photo of a giant cigarette getting a friendly patdown from a police officer. this is what the caption says, best caption ever, butt man protesting against bob dole's book signing, gets a gentle shove from a los angeles police officer who's trying to keep him and fellow protesters across the street from the event. a gentle shove for butt man. not batman, butt man. in 1996, this giant cigarette, name of butt man, he popped up everywhere that bob dole went to on his i want to run for president book door. he was played by different democratic party staffers, and the idea of having butt man follow bob dole around was basically a political stunt by which the bill clinton campaign could accuse bob dole of being too cozy with big tobacco. the bob dole people started getting annoyed at the big

cigarette guy turning up at all their events, they floated the idea of not having a butt man but a joint man follow bill clinton around everywhere he went. basically to say that bill clinton's a stoner. joint man never happened, sad to say. political campaigns do regularly do these kind of stunts. before they ran against bob dole in 1996, it was 1992 when bill clinton was up against george h.w. bush, and a guy in a chicken suit was sent to all the campaign stops. president bush did not love this, and he and his campaign ended up getting in a few well publicized fights with the chicken. this is just become a thing that campaigns do to try to get under the skin of the rival candidate, ruffle some feathers. use a great visual of the man in the funny suit on to tv or in the paper. in '08 a man in a squirrel suit. they tried to relate president obama to the group acorn.

it made sense to have the squirrel visibly bother the obama campaign, there by getting the acorn issue into the coverage of his events. the squirrel had a blog and a twitter feed, the squirrel seemed to have a good time on the campaign. here's the randomly acorn squirrel richard simmons for no reason. the squirrel claimed to fire up the squirrel community against barack obama. the whole thing was fused with a bit of humor. 2008. now, somewhat randomly, something weird has happened about the squirrel. the republican party has decided to revive the exact same squirrel, except this time they don't have a squirrel related metaphor to push, you know, acorn or something, which made

the squirrel make sense. this time they just appear to have that squirrel costume laying around, they've decided to use it again for whatever reason. look. it's the same squirrel costume they used for the acorn gag, which made sense for the acorn gag, now they're using it to attack hillary clinton. what does hillary clinton have to do with squirrels? precisely nothing, it's just the same costume, recently used for a totally different and unrelated political attack, this time appearing at a different candidate's events. the squirrel makes no sense. we tried to figure it out, what's the point here. is secretary clinton supposed to be squirrely, does she steal from bird feeders? is she prone to chewing on electrical cables? what's the allegation here, what's the connection between the squirrel and hillary clinton? there's no sense. it's not related to any

allegation whatsoever, unless you get close enough to the squirrel to notice that the squirrel is wearing a squirrel t-shirt which says it would be nuts to elect another clinton to the white house. that's it. that's the connection that's justifying recycling the squirrel suit. the world of bizarre and inane politics of the forces against bill and hillary clinton has always been at some level inexplicable. right now, is the rights hillary clinton obsession and her potential presidential candidacy, and the rights obsession with benghazi about to foretell the next big dumb thing our politics will tell. what are you doing? uh, well we are fine tuning these small cells that improve coverage, capacity and quality of the network. it means you'll be able t post from the breakroom. great! did it hurt? when you fell from heaven (awkward laugh) ...a little.. (laughs) im sorry, i have to go. at&t is building you a better network.

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hillary clinton has a book out, she did an interview on the fox news channel, guess how that went? >> madam secretary, the big news today is on benghazi, and the capture of abu khatallah. i heard you earlier today say by way of context, that it took more than ten years to pinpoint osama bin laden. >> right.

>> isn't there a difference in this case, in that khatallah was hiding in plain sight, giving interviews to reporters. should he be read his miranda rights and tried in america court? did you talk to charlene lamb that evening? did you talk to secretary panetta that night. in your testimony before the senate you said, i did not know of any reports that contradicted the intelligence community talking points at the time that ambassador rice went on the tv shows, the sunday shows. do you stand by that statement? in the benghazi chapter, you acknowledged that you received a state department operations center bulletin, in the book you say it's a report, that responsibility has been claimed. how did that come to you. you suggested you had a conversation with president obama on the phone. roughly around 10:00 p.m. >> yes. >> did you talk to him before or after? do you know where he was during the attack? did you talk to president obama about the attack? two quick follow-ups.

why is the state department telling the libyan ambassador it was al sharia, and telling the american people at the time it was this video? what are you taking responsibility for? >> that's pretty much how it went. hillary clinton did a book tour interview yesterday, and the interview was all about benghazi. yesterday when the news broke that the alleged leader was in u.s. custody after a u.s. special forces and fbi raid in libya, the reaction on the fox news channel was to suggest that the arrest was a conspiracy, it had been timed specifically to coinside with hillary clinton's book release, the timing was just too perfect. the right is obsessed with benghazi, the right is obsessed with hillary clinton. now, president obama says he intends to have the alleged benghazi attack leader tried here in the united states in a regular court. he will not be delivered to guantanamo, he will be brought

back to the united states and tried on terrorism related charges here in a federal criminal court and face imprisonment if he is convicted. does the craziness of the political orbit here around hillary clinton and benghazi and around freaking out about terrorism in our country mean that we are about to have our next round of fighting about whether or not terrorism suspects actually get tried? joining us now is jennifer rogers, a former assistant u.s. attorney in the district of new york. mrs. rogers, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i think we are going to have a big fight about this. with this suspect reportedly being held on an american ship outside of libya, being interrogated by fbi officials, we don't know a lot of confirmed details, from your experience, what do you think we should expect to happen next upon his arrival in the u.s.?

>> well, as soon as he arrives, he will be presented in court on the complaint that's been presented against him. he will receive a lawyer and at that time after the presentment, the assistant united states attorney prosecuting the case will have 30 days in order to present the case to a grand jury, and then bring an indictment. >> in terms of the intelligence value associated with his capture, what are things that cannot be done that might produce some useful intelligence from this man that can't be done because he's being tried in this way, rather than being shipped off to guantanamo many. >> putting aside the torture and things that we are now passed, he can't be held indefinitely for intelligence related questioning. there is a charge against him now. but they can use the public

safety exception to the miranda rule to question him about ongoing threats, things that are currently out there. they will probably as we speak, they are asking him about what does he know in terms of plots that are currently in place, who's doing it, where are they going to be, that sort of thing, they're doing all of that intelligence related questioning now, they can do that, and later they will provide him with his miranda rights and try to get a statement from him that will be used in court. >> in terms of a track record of prosecuting terrorism cases lrks what's the record like? >> well, that's a softball. >> thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i think we are going to have a big fight about this because of the overlapping spheres of political interest here. with the suspect ahmed abu khattala reportedly being held on an american ship outside of libya, being interrogated by fbi officials, we don't know a lot of confirmed details.

but from your experience, what do you think we should expect to happen next upon his arrival? >> as soon as he arrives, he will be presented in court on the complaint filed against him. he will receive a lawyer, at that time after the presentment, the assistant united states attorneys prosecuting the case will have 30 days to present it to a grand jury and bring an indictment. >> in terms of the intelligence value associated with his capture, what are things that cannot be done, that might produce some useful intelligence from this man that can't be done because he's being tried in this way rather being shipped off to guantanamo?

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