this could change, especially after the ruling. thank you very much. and this name. >> the return of dick cheney, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with dick cheney. he is out there attacking president obama over iraq pretending that he wasn't the perpetrator of the disaster. it was cheney who sold the limited george w. bush on going into iraq in the first place. that war of choice we have all come to regret. dick cheney who championed the destruction of the iraqi army, destruction of the iraqi

government and banishment of the sunni population from the government in baghdad. it was cheney and his limited partner bush again who decided when the united states should leave iraq and cheney again with his limited partner president bush who signed an agreement with the iraqi government who led to the release of the man now leading the isis streaming toward baghdad and threatening war with the united states. now comes cheney again pretending to have clean hands. once again using a favorable media platform, op-ed page of the wall street journal and creating an oddly states video with his daughter and cowboy hat. his back to the wyoming mountains, face plastered it a teleprompters. reminds me of the ads for reverse mortgages that robert wagner did or better yet the new commercial on fox right now for a company called died in house that promises to tell you whether or not someone died in the house you're thinking of buying. a service we need for dick cheney's latest war talk before

buying into cheney's war talk we all ought to check out the past cheney sales pitches, the ones that killed so many americans. that's putting it nicely. joining me now, howard fineman and mother jones magazine's david corn. both are prized msnbc political analyst. deck cheney of course consistently wrong on all aspects of the iraq war. let's watch during his sales pitch before the war. >> regime change in iraq will bring about a number of benefits to the region on the gravest of threats are eliminated, the loving people will have the chance to remote values to bring lasting peace. >> you think the american people are prepare ford a long, costly and bloody battle with a significant american casualties. >> i don't think it is likely going to be that way, tim. i do believe we will be liberators. >> if we do have to take action, do you think it'll be a long war or short war? >> my own judgment and based on

my time of secretary of defense and having operated in this area of the past i'm confident our troops will be successful and i this i it'll go relatively quickly. but weeks rather than months. >> the war would last weeks in iraq. cheney was still getting it wrong in may of to 05 when he told larry king, i think they're in the last throws, if you will be of the insurgency. >> howard, it seems to be that demand is shameless. they used to say that liberace laughed all the way to the bank. but this guy come out again and again and again, wrong, wrong, wrong. and enjoys the fact he has the immediate media. getting attention of the wall street journal. just run him like he is henry kissinger. i don't get it. >> chris, i think you are looking that the through the wrong lens. he is not a politician any more. an diplomat. not a secretary of state. he is a zealot. that's the lens to look at it through.

in the first gulf war dick cheney was not in favor of going to baghdad. perhaps that and other changes in intervening years turned him by the time george bush needed sane sound advice in the first days into a remorseless relentless zealot. that zealotry you are watching there reinforced by the love of his daughter and whatever their ambitions are out there, it is zealotry and that's what we are listening to. this is not reason. it is zealousness. >> i studied it almost like the bible trying to figure out exactly what he is proposing. all he is doing is dumping on obama. >> sure. saying somehow if we left a residual force of a few how is soldiers, no one believes that. >> john mccain have been dumping on obama without saying anything they would do now. there is one line on the op-ed that i read and i had to laugh.

it showed an utter amount of self awareness. rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. he thinks he is talking about barack obama. but that line could be applied to george w. bush. there are, you know, 4500 americans who are dead. maybe 200,000 or more iraqis dead. millions displaced. and all the stuff that is happening now, is like the jeannie let out of the battle. their miss calculations. they didn't plan for this. does he think he can get off scot-free? the answer is yes. i don't think it is zealousness. the only way he can get out of it is by making the current president look worse. >> in addition to that wall street journal piece, dick cheney and his daughter, liz, released a video attacking president obama. let's watch this rather peculiar setting.

>> i'm liz cheney. >> i'm dick cheney. we stand at the critical moment in the life of our motion. the policies of the last six years left america diminished and weakened. our enemy no longer far us. our allies no longer trust us. >> we are forming the alliance for a stronger america. we know it depend on our ability to reverse president obama's policies. >> i don't know what to make of this. is this a salary he position, this company they are forming or what? and the cowboy hat, what does it have to do with iraq? >> everything to do with iraq and wyoming in their view. barack obama is not the kind of man who could wear a cowboy hat, and i, dick cheney, am. that strikes me as political slash business opportunity. family opportunity to rebuild the family franchise, tattered as it is, on behalf of liz cheney who was humiliated when she tried to run out there. >> this is the family business.

call it zealous, call it an attack on obama, call is what you will. this is what these people know how to do. this is all they know how to do. >> this is the third or fourth time that liz cheney founded an organization to defend america and attack barack obama. it is getting to be kind of silly. >> let me just try -- we are in a bad situation, now. whether neither party has any idea how to deal with this hell hole over there, created in iraq. we have people fighting a religious war that's been going on for thousands of years. suddenly it is getting very blood pie. they are looking for people with religious tests where we can't imagine in this country. if you get the words wrong, they kill you. they knock off people to get even. looks like it will escalate. american people normally try to find out who to blame. seems like it is a competition of blame. were we wrong to go into iraq?

i think so. i think you guys do. i think the american people overwhelmingly think. we didn't know what we were doing there, we still don't. what is cheney's political number here? he has always been talking to business guys on the board room. you know who likes him. the business guys with big corporate people, they have, you know, cognac with them. sit around talking about the liberals and lefty -- >> it is serious because with let's not forget, republicans are listening to them. >> the guy is vice president of the united states. >> he was secretary of defense. >> he was the closest adviser to, as you say, limited -- >> he is a better -- >> and so, on one level, dave is right. it is pathetic. almost laughable. on another level, an indication of just how vicious and useless our politics have become at a time when people like that, who should be statesmen, are making cheap infomercial pack ads and

putting them on television. >> he is smart. >> aren't they in a room somewhere quietly trying to figure this thing out. >> exactly. >> they are interested in vindication. and vindication for him is the current president who outed him, or his policy, that is, getting, you know, getting blame for this. now, the other constituency, remember we talked about this in the past. there is a debate, a real debate within conservative circles about what to do. so he has been in this basically hand-to-hand struggle with rand paul and others and here he is trying to take advantage of the current moment for the hawks to ride in and also, the other thing he said in the op-ed piece, he said, barack obama wants to take america down a notch. >> once we're back to, this guy is an real american, he doesn't understand american foreign policy and it is his desire to weaken the -- >> we have a line from his speech.

>> you said, something like treason. he says, president obama seems determined to leave the office ensuring he has taken america down a notch. >> that is not that the president is wrong, you know, you can have policy disagreements and have people have the wrong view. but the president purposely want to weaken the united states. it goes back to the core of the argument, tea party argument and that's what he is playing with. which is not -- >> you say he has it win this because he is relentless. think about the decisions he made. going to iraq and getting rid of the iraqi government and army. throw the sunnis out in street. also, creating an al qaeda in the country. there was in al qaeda in iraq when we went in there. that is something an offshoot of the frustration of the sunnis. now, also, going along with the iraqi government and releasing this. the guy who is now leading their forces. >> the fact is that the situation now, is much, much worse than it would otherwise

have been. and i think that part in playing to history, if he can imagine it. but there is an air of desperation it what he is doing now and we should call into account for not being somebody who is part of what he projects asthma tour leadership structure in the united states. secretary of defense, vice president of the united states. sober-minded mature adviser that would protect american greatness. instead, dispassionate view of history so far, and i think on into the indefinite future, not only was the war a mistake, advocacy a tragedy in the inner circles of the white house but he deserves to be called for account for it and he refuses to do so. >> a lot of times people are taken by temperament and he come off with that and he is --

>> and bush on that -- >> and you know, as we now know, tim, or as we now know george, that same manner he takes on, the bonding technique he uses. and in the end, none of the good instincts that came out of the vietnam war, because he doesn't fight it. we better be careful not to be caught into the sink holes our country gets into once in a while. none of those good post vietnam instincts. but a style that some people, you know, as i think the former president bush fell for. >> i think so. and i think he has turned into a complete partisan hack. he mentioned kissinger, kissinger who i totally disagreement with be i think he ruined, argentina, vietnam, at least when he talks now he tries to come up with solutions. this is what we should do about china. this is what we should do about the middle east. i appreciate him being in the policy debate. cheney comes without no solutions whatsoever. it is all about partisan we revenge. as someone who is second high

nest command, it shows just how far he is off the reservation and should be drummed out of polite society. >> look up cheney and iraq war. anyway, thank you howard fineman, thank you david corn. coming up, fox news began its interview with hillary clinton yesterday. with eight, count them, eight questions right in a row about benghazi. and many about benghazi afterwards. how did hillary handle that? did they get anything on her or did she show she was on the job the night that he there broke loose. plus, you would be hard pressed to find two senators more in lock step than john mccain and lindsey graham. whether to work to help solve the mess in iraq or not to. and a lesson on hillary clinton on how to sell a book. >> it is very hard choice.

we push very hard. but as i say in my book, my book, as i write in my book, these are difficult hard choices. we make hard choices to have the concentration to be able to make those hard choices. >> as woody allen would say, the key two words here are hard choices. finally, let me fin wish this battle on the right over iraq. this is "hardball", the place for politics.

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republicans but given gerrymandering and the concentrations of democratics in big cities that may not be decisive. we'll be right back.

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conservatives have been going after hillary clinton since 2012 after the attack on the compound in benghazi. they want to weaken her in a run for president in 2016, obviously. salivating over the opportunity to question the secretary of state and last night they had their chance. hillary clinton sat down for a 30-minute interview on fox news where brett baier questioned her on benghazi where she was that night, what she did that night, who they talked to that night. if they were waiting it for a gotcha moment, a perry mason moment, if you will, didn't come. angry viewers took to twitter for baier and greta for their questions.

jackie, thanks for joining us and michael, as always. let's look at hillary clinton. here is what she wrote about she wrote on the day of the attack in benghazi on her new n you book "hard choices" with our diplomatic agents and heavily fortified cia post and our reinforcements from tripoli on the ground at the aport i decided to move from our position to in northwest washington, only minutes away from foggy bottom. i knew the days ahead were going to be taxing on us all, with the entire department looking to me to lead in that shocking tragedy. while keeping everyone focused on what lay ahead, when i came secretary of the department outfitted, i was equipped necessarily to work as easily there as i could from the office. i got on the phone with the president.

>> still in direct communication, the time line subjects that president obama, you had a conversation on the phone roughly around 10:00 p.m. >> yes. >> do you know where the president was through the attack? >> the president with a in the white house. in the oval office when i got word of the attack. and i know from my conversations with panetta, dempsey and donlan and the president that at that moment the president said to our defense officials do everything can you to help our people. >> jackie, what do you think brett was after there in getting into the time line, what we call the tick tock in the news business, what was he after? >> i think a lot of fox viewer had in particular had a lot of questions. and we heard that right there. >> what was the wrong place for her to be? what are they implying is the wrong place for her to be if they are out here fishing? >> right. even though they said there is

unanswered questions about benghazi. with their viewership they had to ask the questions because their viewers are asking them, so this makes perfect sense. i don't think he asked disrespectfully by any stretch of the imagination. for those that haven't read the book, it is worth answering. >> again, let me go to michael, what is the best place for her to be in a fund-raiser or a restaurant dishing with her friends? >> i think that's what they were trying to get it. also aimed it at obama too. of course he was in the white house. he lives in the white house. i think they were trying to establish that obama was watching tv or watching "game of thrones" or something. >> when asked about the attack in the first place, here she is. >> this is the fog of war. my own assessment careened from, you know, the video had something to do with it, the video had nothing to do with it. may have affected some people.

didn't affect other people. what the intelligence community said was spontaneous protest and that is what, at the time, they thought. there is no doubt terrorists were involved. there is no doubt. >> there we go. michael. what are they up to, here? >> they got a little something with that video comment. which is kind of interesting. but i don't think anything new. but these hearings are coming up. house and hearings are coming up. trying to set up something that the house committee can ask her. but i don't think they got anything out of her. >> i don't know if she will appear at the hearings. she hinted in the book that she doesn't have any interest in going to this house hearing. i can't remember the exact verbiage -- >> she can be subpoenaed. >> she can be. but she doesn't have to show up. she doesn't have to comply. if she doesn't show up, the viewers have their answer. >> then have you a congress charge against her. >> then the justice department controlled by obama.

we have seen that happen before. >> you seriously think that the justice department would not act there appropriately? >> didn't they do the same thing with eric holder? >> maybe, but i don't know -- >> i think if she is subpoenaed she has to show up. but i think we saw last night there is just not very many avenues of gotcha to go after her. >> she is a private citizen. i don't think she has any protections at all about the separate branches of government that hold are may be pointing to. the question here, what i'm trying to figure out, is what is the magic goal here. what does is fox after? one they want to show they didn't answer the 3:00 in the morning call. she was figiting. do you think she held that well in showing she was professional the night of the event or not. >> yes. i think she showed up very prepared for this interview. we saw some of the interviews the week before. maybe she was a little rusty not a whole lot of national media.

whoever prepared her did a good job. >> some were angry. over the questions from fox news last night. and they took twitter disparage and greta van susteren. one said you may want to ask mega kelly about the softball questions handed to hillary. megan kelly is another fox anchor. very disappointed brett baier, unchallenged, you let her get away with murder. #figuratively. and #literally. i wonder what her feelings are about #foxnews. i guess that's to be pro predicted. i was amazed, and i'm an media critic. again, i'm an media critic. i hold back. but it seems to be keep hitting at one point over and over again.

like midwestern big 10 football game. three yard and cloud of dust. keep hitting at the line and hoping it will break. jackie, you said she was surely prepared to talk about benghazi up the cazoo. yet they talked about it up the cazoo and saying, almost, okay, we will play your game and can you win. >> but they didn't have follow-ups. that's a sign that someone comes prepared with their answers and interviewers who frankly weren't as prepared. she boxed them in, didn't give them a chance to give follow-ups and didn't make miss takes. one thing she did duck on is question why any state department employees haven't lost their jobs. other than that, i thought she held her own. >> i was on the air last night at 7:00. i didn't get the last of the greta van susteren interview. is there any information on the

loss and tragedy and the loss of life of personnel at the others and secretary of state who was the officer of the day? >> i don't believe -- >> did they get to that question? >> i don't believe they did. but brett baier did follow up on diane sawyer's question about what is your responsibility in all this. and i thought she even had a good answer it that. she took responsibility as head of the agency and said while she didn't have all of the direction, when it came to benghazi, she did take responsibility for the head of the department and she also was very forward looking saying, a lead are figures out how to not have this happen again. she was ready for that question but not maybe as prepared for the diane sawyer interview a week ago. >> she was able to take on the questions that last week wasn't prepared for. but she is back in action. thank you so much.

up next, i said yesterday, hillary clinton hit a home run in the interviews on cnn and fox. she is going out to sell her book. that's ahead on the side show. this is "hardball", the place for politics. so this board gives me rates on progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive and they're them. -yes. -but they're here. -yes. -are you... -there? -yes. -no. -are you them? i'm me. but the lowest rate is from them. -yes. -so them's best rate is... here.

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in a new interview, hillary clinton said that the bible is the most influential book she's ever read. some people might think she might be pandering to southern christian voters. then hillary said, come on y'all with be lil' ole me? >> welcome back. time for the side show. as it is said, hillary clinton made several appearances last night, including town hall style interview with christiane amanpour. she took time to answer hard questions. this is to promote her new book called "hard choices" and boy

did she promote it. watch this. >> hard choice. >> very hard choice. i write a whole chapter about syria in my book "hard choices." we push very hard. but as i say in my book, in my book. >> you write in your book. >> as i write in my book, these are difficult hard choices. >> hard choices. >> we make hard choices. >> hard choice. >> it is hard choice. >> hard choice. >> has the concentration to be able to make those hard choices. >> she is working for simon and schuster right there. as you can see, christiane amanpour mentioned the book as many times as hillary did. next, a giraffe at the white house. a life-size robotic on the white house lawn. the president declared today a national day of making and met with inventors making advance s in science and to create jobs. a 13-year-old boy made a braille

printer. and a team who made a teddy bear to help diabetic children monitor glucose and insulin. what will they come up with next? up next, the hawks want obama to do something in iraq. but can't decide whether to work with iran or not. you're watching "hardball", the place for politics.

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incites envy... ♪ ...and unleashes wrath. ♪ temptation comes in many heart-pounding forms. but only one letter. "f". the performance marque from lexus. hi, i'm frances rivera. here is what is happening. >> welcome back. hawks are divided now. not about whether we should get back into the middle of a religious war in iraq. the fault lines are a bit less clear here. on monday, senior american diplomat met in vienna with top

iranian diplomat to discuss the situation in iraq and see if there is a common ground to pursue. many slam that as naive. here is speaker john boehner today answering whether or not the united states should cooperate with iran to try to bring peace to iraq. >> no. absolutely not. i can just imagine what our friends in the region, our allies, will be thinking about reaching out to iran at a time when they continue to pay for terrorism an foster terrorism. not only in syria, in lebanon and israel as well. >> the issue split the two leading hawks in the u.s. senate. senator john mccain and lindsey graham. often called the two amigos. senator graham said he was in favor for dialogue with iran. >> it is not as bad as hitler. iranians can provide some assets

to make sure baghdad doesn't fall. we need to coordinate with iranians and turks need to get into the game and get sunni arabs back in the game and form a new government to out malaki and yes i don't want them to dominate iraq. let us save baghdad so there is a chance at a second government. >> figure that one out. work with iran but don't let them win. the height of falling to believe that the iranian regime can be our partner in managing the deteriorating situation or security situation in iraq. u.s. and iranian interest do not align in iraq and greater iranian intervention would make the situation dramatically worse. clarence page is a column nest and john furry is a strategist. clarence, everybody you talk to says that iran is all over iraq now they are acting like, boehner, let's talk turkey

politically. no one in politics want to be caught in bed with iran, which is known by everybody who cares about israel, as their number one geo-political threat. >> right. >> you don't want to be dirtied with that. down the road 20 years from now, 10 years from now, we will have a gigantic threat of iran. we will have to face them. nobody wants to be in bed with them but guys for some reason, lindsey graham, is taking that clans. what is going on on this fight on the right? >> we have john mccain, the fighter pilot. you've got lindsey graham, the military lawyer. lindsey graham is looking for avenues where we can work something out that involve not require the united states to come in militarily and the reality of who is the big winner in the iraq war. iran. right. you've got a government, you've got al-maliki who won't cooperate and alienates the sunnis and helps to feed the

isis indirectly and also iran, is worried about being surrounded by sunnis. from saudi arabia and from iraq. so you know, i could see why lindsey graham would look for avenues, why are you talking to iran about the nuclear negotiations. and there are side talks about what might be done about the isis. so he would like to get more out of that avenue. >> so you go into iraq in 2003, john and that's always going to be controversial. i think it should. and we basically put, because of the democracy there, let the largest group take over, and the shia. now the shia of course are aligned religiously with the iranians. differences historically but aligned in religious terms. when the sit sunnis come through killing shia, they are the same as shia in baghdad. what does the united states do? some people say let iran help us. your thoughts?

>> i'm with mccain and boehner. i think that -- i think lindsey graham eventually got that. i thought his comments on cnn were convoluted. you don't want it to be easier for the iranians with baghdad. chris, your point is taken. iran has influence in iraq. when we pulled out of there and it made it easier for the iranians to have more influence and what john boehner was saying, our allies, not only israelis saudis. if we good too overboard and cooperate, it drives saudis bonkers. i think it is a very delicate game here. think i john mccain and john boehner have the politics right and the policy right. >> their column today in wall street journal, dick and liz cheney had this to say about iran. quote, in a move that denies ka julity, pushing iran into iraq

only a fool would believe american policy in iraq should be a state sponsor of tris ep. the british and french back after world war ii thought they could decide the countries. they drew the map. they said, this is iraq, this is trans jordan, this is whatever. they figured, we europeans, white guys, can decide these things. for a while it worked an they accept that. no longer do they accept the lines any more. yet we are still accused of not controlling events in that part of the region our way. i'm just wondering with, do we have any influence really. in the end, once we are rid of the iraq government, i didn't agree with it, we knocked it off. libya became a mess, once syria became this crazy chaos, did we have any influence on what that looks like. why don't we stop kidding

ourselves that we can control events. >> yeah. >> in pa part of the world. i don't think we can. >> influence and control. no, we can't control events in that part of the world. we can influence them. especially with something that affects our interest. >> how do you influance the shia to stop killing the sunni because the sunni are killing the shia? how do we stop that. >> on the ground, as far as the balance between them, we have very little control over that. but when it comes to the leadership, we do have some influence. they have all got interests. you know, people start to recognize the joe biden's original idea of dividing iraq -- >> they are doing a good job. >> exactly. that's is what is happening. just what you said, the artificial lines drawn long ago. and now people reverting back to their basic tribal politics. but there are ways for us to influence. and there are no good alternatives -- >> okay, here is my question, how do you stop the shia

government of iran from helping its fellow shia government in baghdad? what do we have it say about that? if we help them, we help them. >> that is a good point. we are in the middle of huge war between sunni and shia. it has been happening for generations. but it is getting to a fever point now. you don't want to put america in the middle with they both pound on us. that is part of this. but you want to see if you can influence leaders to bring them together. and i think that we got into iraq and we can disagree whether it was the right thing to do, by knocking off hussein. kind of a force of stability. now we've got the situation, almost unmanageable and there are no easy ways to get out of it. it does require diplomacy. america shouldn't just turn away. as clarence said, it will have an impact on oil prices. >> nothing appalled me more than

when they took the three guys out of the truck and asked them to say the prayers so they can find if they were sunni or shia an then executed them on the spot. they would grab people out of the bar and say, can you say the rosery and if they couldn't, they beat them up. that is a hell of a lot worse. >> tribal politics. >> a hell of a lot worse. in the name of god, by the way. thank you, gentlemen. up next, story behind the man who knew more than anyone else about bowe bergdahl. this is "hardball", the place for politics. you use tide pods?

yeah! but i thought you were the queen of the pre-treat soak treat soak? those are fond memories, but those things are amazing. once i saw what they did, i actually started to relax. don't touch my things. those little guys clean, brighten and fight stains. so now i can focus on more pressing matters. like your containers. isn't it beautiful? your sweet peppers aren't next to your hot peppers. [ gasps ] [ sarah ] that's my tide. what's yours?

new polling in the iowa senate race. one of the seats democrats need to hold if they keep control of the senate. let's check the score board. according to a new quinnipiac poll, bruce braley has four point lead over republican ernst. braley, 44. ernst, 40.

a poll found an interesting gender gap. women overwhelmingly back the democratic male in the race over the republican female. we'll be right back. 

we're back, by age 33, michael hastings made his mark. a risings star who had earned his reputation as an intrepid reporter and the star was sure it rise further until his life was cut short in a fatal car accident a year ago. from his earliest days at "newsweek" magazine to work for "rolling stone" and "buzzfeed," hasting had a talent for finding the human stories behind the big news stories ands to stories were never sugar coated. best known nor 2010 profile in rolling stone of generally stanley mcchrystal, top commander then in afghanistan. the article entitled, the run away general, not only capturing the challenges of staying the in afghanistan, also disparaging remark that the general made

about top white house officials. though hasting he didn't know the impact his art cal would have, he was fired days later. >> i believe it is the right decision for our national security. it undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of our democratic system. >> more pressing is mcchrystal's information about bowe bergdahl, who no one had heard about yet. now hastings book has been released posthumously. it's about the rush to the war in iraq in 2003.

joining me right now is michael hastings widow, elise jordan. she's a republican strategist at the national review, and a former speech writer for condoleezza rice. >> thank you. michael hastings joined me on hardball in 2012. here's what he had to say about the futility of keeping u.s. forces in afghanistan. >> 99% of the people we fought and killed in afghanistan, pose no threat to the u.s. homeland. that is the big lie of this war, that is why we shouldn't be there, it's not making us safer, and it goes to what you say. the taliban are our enemies because we're in the villages where the taliban are. the taliban think they're fighting the soviets some of them, they never heard of 9/11. >> the things we argue here about every night.

>> i wouldn't say i subscribe to my husband's thinking. i'm always my own person, i do think that what he did with the profile of general mcchrystal was to expose how counter insurgency wasn't working in afghanistan. that is what he felt the most important part of the story was, people really got into the political drama, he really wanted to hammer down on what our troops were experiencing on the ground in afghanistan. >> when we go into a country, whether we being the british or the soviets or the americans. we are the outsiders, and we go into countries, the british used to say to us, we help fight the nazis, they're overpaid, oversexed and over here. people don't like people being in their country with uniforms on, with weekends to enjoy. generally they don't like people in the long run even less so. was that your husband's view that occupation in the way we were in there fighting the taliban, it looked to be a local

war if we weren't there, were just making enemies for ourselves? >> he thought it had become a disaster, emblematic of the industrial complex. so many other interests were at the core of why we were at war, not necessarily our national security. so that was what he carried. the profile that was closest to his heart was a story about sergeant bowe bergdahl actually. the stories really stood the test of time. it's amazing how two years earlier, michael predicted how this was going to play out. and how bowe's story would become politicized as soon as it was expedient for the pundit class. >> let's talk about the monday it class, in the book you're talking about now, this is something that always bugged me. what is the theme of the book.

>> it's really about the dirty underbelly of journalism. sometimes the stories told aren't -- people who are be holden to their readers. it was about a lot of careers, a lot of careers were built over the iraq war, a lot of quick support that, you know, went away, evaporated completely as the war started to go south. it was pretty obvious how a lot of pundits supported the war for the wrong reason, michael felt the american public paid the price for that. >> why did people like that do it? why did they support the war in the drum beat, not thinking it through? >> well, he thought it was getting in with the establishment, that it was the establishment consensus view at the time. he didn't care about being a part of the club, he didn't think that journalists were supposed to be friendly with

their sources. he wanted his sources to respect him. but he thought you could be fair and accurate and hard hitting without becoming best friends with someone. >> that is the story. the book is by the late michael hastings. >> thank you for telling us about your husband's book, and we'll be right back after this. when you run a business, you can't settle for slow.

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battle on the right over iraq. the fact that the two amigos aren't amigos on this isn't surprising. there is no cookie cutter answer for how to make this horror in iraq any better or less horrible. we have two sides over there about one composed of sunnis, angry at the government in baghdad, out to kill the shiite. on the other side we have the sunnis who want to keep the shiite out. the fact that we're talking here about two sides of a religious war is one explanation of why our own political people here in the united states have no natural loyalties with either the sunnis or the shiite. it's come down to the embarrassing reality, nobody right or left here in america has the situation in iraq figured out. these people are fighting, they will fight until both sides

decide they've had enough. i don't think that day will come in the life of this presidency or in the lives of those of us now trying to take sides. could it be there is no american side in this thing? that's hardball for now, thanks for being with us, all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes. president obama has just wrapped up a meeting with congressional leaders on how to respond to the deepening chaos in iraq. lawmakers reportedly pressured the president to force nuri al maliki to step down over what they see as his failure to rain in the sectarian strife that's fueling the sunni insurgency now bearing down on baghdad. as isis militants strengthen today. the maliki government requested u.s. air force in the form of