policy analyst, ezra klein joins the conversation from washington this morning. >> great to have you guys with us. >> a lot of ground to cover today, including in iraq, where the militant group isis is in position to prepared to control of the largest oil refinery. what that means for the world markets and what president obama plans to do about it. >> a big announcement by amazon ceo chief jeff besos why the new fire phone is making apple and samsung very nervous. >> really? hello, willie. >> what is going on? >> good to have you back. the hits keep coming with general motors as the company is hit with a class action lawsuit as mary barra is drawn in front of lawmakers again on capitol hill. >> of course, you know, the thing that got them in trouble they have gone back and they have found memos and e-mails that actually suggest that they knew about what was going on. >> you can piece everything together. >> that is a great thing that e-mails are forever, at least in

advance civilizations because, you know, if you go to, like, places look like the scene out of 2001 space odyssey, beaten sticks maybe their e-mails get lost and they go our e-mails are lost! let's destroy all of the computers! because of what the irs did. we lost e-mails, we better throw away the computers! just because we have never heard, i mean, i'm an idiot when it comes to this. >> i'm never going to get to the story, am i? >> mike barnicle, unbelievable. even i know if you have an hard drive and can't find an e-mail, you can get a little nerd come in and find them for you. >> not if you take the literal computer itself and throw it away. >> throw it away! >> how will i get through this? >> strange text support work to throw the computer away.

hey, bob, i lost my e-mails here! do i call tech support or just throw it away. ? toss it! hold on. this is one of the most important people at the internal revenue service so maybe these e-mails are of some worth. do i get tech support or throw it away? >> throw it away! >> my god! >> good character work. >> i'm going to try my best. let's all keep a straight face while i read this news story. >> so you understand when i say who are these men, who are these men? who are these idiots? >> a lot to get to. >> we do. will you be all right? >> deck cheney, let's go. >> we do need to get there. e-mails from the woman at the center of the irs scandal says that the e-mails will possibly may be nowhere to be found forever. >> lost forever. >> republican senator orrin hatch was told lois lerner's

crashed hard drive was actually recircled. >> i love how they use the with or without recycle. instead of we trashed the evidence and tore it up and buried it, no. we were earth friendly, willie. what if the mobs went before a panel. where is the body? we recycled it! >> we compost it. >> the hard drive was subpoenaed as evidence earlier this week as part of the investigation into the agency's targeting of conservative groups. the irs says two years worth of e-mails sent by lerner were lost when the hard drive crashed in 2011. many i.t. experts dispute that and say there are ways to retrieve older e-mails. lerner was charge of the tax

exempt division that targeted groups in 2012. >> how does the internal revenue service in the middle of their biggest scandal, how does the internal revenue service go to a taxpayer and say you can't find the receipts? you either find the receipts and justify this or you're going to jail. shouldn't somebody from the irs go to jail if this is a standard they hold the rest of americans to? >> funny you ask me. i'm going through a situation i'm asked to retrieve items from my 2012 and 2011 tax return. >> you don't need them, do you? >> i'm going to say i recycled them. >> that will work for you. >> one of the terms used was wash. the computers were washed. i thought was a great expression. >> willie, this is your experti expertise. you know this stuff. >> you found my wheelhouse which is i.t. support. yes, exactly. >> so much to get to. you wouldn't believe it. >> that's all you get! >> we're done with that, okay? >> that our analysis of this

story. >> mika does not want to talk about this story. go ahead. >> oh, no. we have others we need to get to. don't worry, i will not disappoint you. a unique coalition of republicans supporting jody in the iowa senate race. ernst trails and she added her experience castrating hogs attracted attention and her stram at home seems to be work. 46% have seen her spots and edges out the opponent's ad and 50% say they are ads have been effective. >> who does polls like this and why are we reading them? >> the republican runoff is less than a week away. thad cochran supporters are bringing in the heavy artillery and the latest ads in one of mississippi's most famous sons.

>>ism learned through football that strong leadership can be the difference between winning and losing and when it comes to our state's future, trust me, mississippi can win and win big with thad cochran as our strong voice in washington. >> willie, let's get that right. a couple of things we have to talk about this commercial. none of them having to do with politics. first of all, if you look at this picture of brett favre here he sort of resembles the guy in the dr pepper commercial. you know, that eats bark off of trees and canoes with bears? secondly you notice something about the hair. >> the mullet is back. >> it's coming back. >> he had the mullet when he played at southern mississippi 25 years ago and he has brought it back in retirement and i think it's working for him. >> i think the mullet is sweeping america. >> did you hear what brian schweitzer said? we have to get to that. that is weird. >> did you hear about this? >> first -- >> wait a second, willie, you and i went to college in the south. the schweitzer guy says all

voters are feminine and talk funny. where is the quote? i want to be very careful. this is a deep tease, joe. >> i think everybody would much rather hear what he has to say about feminine guys in the south. >> chris mcdaniel stunned cochran by forcing a runoff earlier this month and cochran may have helped his opponent's case with this reaction. listen to this. to eric cantor's loss as house majority leader. >> what happened in virginia the other day does that concern you for your chances for you in this runoff? >> i don't know what you're talking about. what happened in virginia? >> reporter: with eric cantor's seat. >> i haven't really followed that campaign very closely. >> reporter: really? >> really. >> reporter: so you have no comment that you want to make? >> no, i can make a comment. you asked me what happened. i don't know. i didn't follow that campaign very closely. >> reporter: well, eric cantor lost his seat as the majority leader. >> well, it happens.

you know? members of congress, some win, some lose. it's not an automatic proposition that you get re-elected just because you've done a good job. voters make their own decisions and i respect their judgment. >> yeah, he says he was asked three times and was annoyed. >> by the way, somebody -- was on set yesterday said he brought up cantor's loss the day before, so, yeah, i think that guy is mad. he is not annoyed, he is pissed off and he asked him twice about eric cantor. >> first, the redskins, the federal government is upping the pressure -- >> do you think anybody wants to hear about this story compared to what brian schweitzer said about eric cantor? >> other teams as well. >> atlanta braves. >> in a 99-page decision, the u.s. patent and trademark office

cancelled the team's trademark. the ruling does not stop the redskins from using the name but others are not allowed to sell merchandise with the team term. team owner daniel snyder has resisted efforts to change the team name which included 50 senators sending a letter to the nfl. >> it's racist. daniel snyder says it's about tradition. what tradition. the writing is on the wall. it's on the wall in giant and blinking neon lights. the name will change and justice will be done for the tribes in nevada and across the nation who care to deeply about this issue. >> do you think harry reid ever went to redskins games before? >> yes. >> do you think he set himself on fire and ran across the 50 yard line and said this is wrong! i should not have taken this tickets from boeing and from other lobbyists on k-street who

gave me free tickets to the redskins game so i can be fed and pampered and treated like a greek god! this is immoral. no, he didn't do that. i bet he went to a redskins game. >> i don't know if he's been but i'm assume somebody in washington that long has been to a redskins game. >> the redskins are vowing to appeal the decision. >> you're not letting willie talk at all. i hope he isn't get paid for the word. >> they admit the trademark revoked in 1999 but challenged it in court. some sports change says the blackhawks and indians and may have to change their team name. >> what if the redskins go away, right? that is going to go away. >> yeah. >> so then what happens to the braves? what happens to the indians? what happens to the blackhawks? >> you haven't heard as much outcry about those. the braves, we have heard some some about. >> they got rid of chief.

>> this happened on college campuses. >> a sad day. >> the chop. >> still doing the chop? >> you remember that daniel snyder does not care. he truly doesn't care. at some point maybe his hand will be forced but this just means he won't make as much money off of it and there will be more redskins market on the on market, not less. >> there is a black market for it. ezra klein. >> it's important to hear from him on this. >> we have noted you are in washington, d.c. i was surprised when i went to washington, d.c. just how crazy people in washington, d.c. are for the redskins. i mean, you know, official washington. so official washington has been going to these redskins games since the 1930s, and now, suddenly, they are shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. when did they wake up and realize this was an offensive name and do you believe this name should go away and is this name going away? >> it's not so sudden, right?

we have had a fair amount of activism around the nation for years. they got turned over on appeal on a previous time, i think a decade ago or maybe a little bit less so a lot of movement around this a while. it's true that official washington has woken up in a much bigger way and i can't say exactly when that happened. i think thereof always been a lot of people wanting to see it changed but you get into moments things suddenly appear to be a quick challenge and all of a sudden appear like it may actually happen. if you add your voice into the cry, maybe you can make it happen. now, will it actually change? the problem with the redskins actually getting it changed it's a profitable team now. right now dan snyder isn't getting hurt and they have a low fan base and people do come to the games. if the trademark was upheld as willie says will lead to a little bit more merchandise flooding the market and very lightly bump snyder's profits. i think the bigger question when

you actually see him begin to feel pressure from the people he cares about which are on a broader level, not official washington fans, but the fans at large when you see people actually stop going to the games or when you see the fans begin to put in, you know, multithousand and multiten thousand petitions and will probably move snyder then. >> by the way, it's not going to happen. >> it's not going to happen. >> it's not going to happen. so many people were shocked and stunned and deeply saddened are scratching and clawing to get season tickets. >> his biggest threats will come from roger goodell. >> the nfl has to enforce this. >> the look on katty's face, when are we going to talk about something important? personally i think they is telegraphing to me. >> i was being very patient. >> here we go. >> this one is for you, katty. >> former montana governor,

msnbc brian schweitzer. >> look at him right there. a manually man. >> but a new interview. >> he thinks liberals are going to want an alternative. >> in a new interview in "the national journal," it shows the democrat may have some work to do in staying on message. the wide ranging profile paints a vivid picture of the possible 2016 candidate. in the piece he reacts to loss of house majority leader eric cantor saying, quote, don't hold this against me but i'll blurt it out on. how do i say this? >> it's like barack obama say when you say -- when you start a sentence a certain warks the president says just stop. just stop. so when you say you don't hold this against me, but -- stop! i know this. >> i shouldn't say this but. >> then don't. >> men in the south? they are a little feminine.

if you were a regular person and turn on the tv and you saw eric cantor talking i would say i'm fine with gay people? i couldn't even finish this! >> he said, i couldn't sayer less. i'm accepting. >> dianne feinstein in march accused the cia spying on congressional staffers and some believe she is too close to the intelligence committee. schweitzer goes a step further saying, quote, i'm scared to read this! >> we can't say this. don't say this. >> put that down! what did she say? >> i'm sorry. he didn't say that, did he? >> yes. apparently, he did. >> we can't say that. >> how do you think he will say in the south carolina primary? >> forget about the south

carolina primary! this guy thinks he will be the progressive alternative to hillary clinton. how is that going to work out for him? >> i don't think at this moment that brian schweitzer is going to be the next president. but to actually maybe make, like, a deeper point about him. this is a guy sitting in a room with a reporter, right? this isn't something where. >> on the record. >> like something got leaked or his phone got eavesdropped and he is sitting wrge a reporter. not even a montana reporter. somebody he knows from a d.c. publication. he thinks to himself this is probably going to be a compelling comment to make on these issues. i don't mind politicians going off of message but the fact he thought this would be a good idea speaks to just a lack of, i think, internal discipline and sort of understanding of his audiences that it's not just a couple of off-color comments. this is not a good thing and almost not a good way for a politician's mind to work if he didn't see that this would be a huge, huge problem.

>> i mean, how many people can he offend in the space of one interview? >> i mean it's unbelievable. >> hillary clinton looking really good. >> yes. >> he offender the guys in the south and he offended eric cantor. >> not running for office by the looks of it. >> i like the guy but i'm totally shocked. >> i think it might be a rough day. >> i think it's that kind of western myth that they have the monopoly. >> that was just -- >> what? what? i never heard john wayne ride off and talk about -- >> talk about his gaydar? >> and those effeninate cowboys in the deep south. >> carney punched back at former vice president dick cheney who is stepping up his attacks on president obama's foreign policy. >> rarely has a u.s. president

been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many, talking about the situation in iraq and the middle east. >> which president was he talking about? >> i believe he was talking about president obama. >> look. it's, obviously, always good to hear from former vice president cheney. >> was actually very funny comeback, which president is he talking about? >> well, it's not funny. >> what is not funny? >> it's not funny. it's true. >> what is not funny? >> it's a good question. it's an incredibly good question. probably just -- what is the word? i can't think of one that is clean but i can't believe he made that comment. i honestly can't. that comment is about as blind as unself-aware as it comes with all due respect. >> i understand that also on the other side of it as your package showed the other day i iraq has

made fools of us all. >> absolutely. >> the people on the far left saying how dare any conservative that got it wrong on iraq even be allowed on television. well, we could have actually barred people on the far left from talking after the cold war for getting it to miserably wrong for 50 years about the soviet union and so wrong about ronald reagan or so miserably wrong with welfare affair or so miserably wrong, paul krugman so miserable wrong on the v.a. do we want to hear his voice? we listen to all presidents. >> this president was as dam is when his president who he worked side-by-side with and as an architect of the iraq war which i think everybody at this table agrees was erroneous, was wrong. we should not have gone in. i think that comment was unbelievable. >> as we all have said around this table. >> and it's prepared. >> george w. bush and dick

cheney created the great sin of going into iraq. wait a second. that said, there were, i think history will show, terrible decisions made by this administration as well that as a contributing factor what is going on in the middle east. right now in syria. you had barack obama saying that he had everything but the mission accomplished sign behind him saying that iraq was going -- we were leaving an iraq that was stable, that was sovereign and that was self-reliant. as i said, i've said stupid things about iraq and i think everybody has said stupid things about iraq. this president, president obama has made mistakes. i'm talking about while in power on the issue of iraq. look at 2003 to 2007 things were miserable. you look at the surge. liberals got the surge horrendously wrong. we talked to dexter fillkins who was there in '06 and he went

back in '0 and fillkins didn't recognize the country. by '11 it was even more stable. so i'm just saying there are people on the left that are saying if you get it wrong in 2003, you have no right to speak. >> can i make a point about the surge? >> well, you want to redebate the surge, you can. >> no. i think it relates to what is going on there. i think it's interesting. i think we in america give credit for the surge and the surge worked but what happened in that period as well, which i think like we sometimes edit out of the story was this awakening in the anbar province and we put in this guy maliki who treated the sunnis so badly that al qaeda and iraq able to rebrand as isis and come back and now support from the same group of people who kicked them out. i think the question -- i think that in the american discussion, it gets so much about us and what we do, that we kind of end

up, i think, short changing the internal dynamics of iraq. we crude up that political system so bad in the people we chose to put into power there. >> no doubt about it. the anbar province there was a severe aweakening but it required that the sunnis had a reason to believe, katty, that they had a future in iraq. you had members of the bush administration at the end, you had the obama administration desperately trying to get maliki to bring sunnis in, but all of the gains that were made in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 kept getting negated by maliki focusing almost exclusively on the needs of the shia and excludeing the sunnis. >> part of those gains, by the way, were because of the large amounts of money that were paid over to sunnis and this wasn't just because of troops on the ground. this was because of direct payments made to sunni leaders

by america in order to co-op them. >> that does happen. >> it did happen and it worked. when america pulled out and the money stopped flowing and the troops stopped being there, then the system became unviable. it wasn't what america left behind, was not a practical system without american assistance. >> this is why you're seeing dianne feinstein saying -- i'm sorry. go ahead. >> i think it is extraordinary what we have seen the last 24 hours which is near conservatives who did get iraq wrong in 2003, not just the invasion of work but the management of the war in iraq and not enough troops going into iraq. it's industrial pretty extraordinary to see them coming out now, i told you so and if we had done it our way, we would be okay. >> lets not limit it to iraq. let's limit it to the world. george w. bush, on january 20th,

2005, said that we err going to eliminate tyranny from all four corners of the globe so they had an expansive world view. >> you know, i think -- >> but, i don't know. here is my question, mika. >> yeah. >> we had paul bremer on the other morning. i made no secret of the fact that i think paul bremer is more responsible than just about anybody for the chaos that has gone in iraq because of the de-baathification of it. >> right. >> do we have paul bremer on to talk about it? are we afraid to let him talk? no. we allow people to talk. we have a free marketplace of ideas and even people with whom we disagree, we allow them to talk. that's why people watch this show. if they wanted to watch people just saying what they -- what everybody else in a little circle believe they could watch certain shows on prime time cable. >> i understand. >> we challenged paul bremer and bill krystal. we always have debates. that is a free marketplace idea.

i don't know why some people are weak and -- >> is there a little bit of a difference here with dick cheney. paul bremer came on our show and we asked and we answered. dick cheney and his daughter are setting up an organization. i guess politically some things didn't work out so they are finding other ways to insert themselves in the conversation and i find this scary and i'll tell you about. no, that is where this conversation began and you can go off in 20,000 directions and you can ask about paul bremer but it comes back to why we find this statement by cheney perhaps a little bit more difficult to grasp than other people who might come on our show and talk about it. you talked about the original sin being invading iraq that we awe agree with that, he doesn't. he doesn't still! he doesn't. >> that is correct. >> okay. >> he doesn't. a righteous act on our part. >> don't get cheney syndrome here. >> i'm not. >> not only do you agree with deck cheney and george w. bush

by 2016 disagreed with dick cheney and condoleezza rice and colin powell disagreed with dick cheney but debate continues. >> what is the debate? >> i could sit here and go over and over again and we could go crazy and i'm sure they are doing it on another cable news network about barack obama saying he would leave it a stable and sovereign iraq. as your father said last week, we could go back and point fingers and say you're not allowed to talk because you got it wrong in 2003 or 2007 or 2011 or who what others are doing and say we got to come together and do this right. >> if you were to choose the best person, joe, from the republican party to make the argument that president obama's decision a couple of years ago to withdraw all american forces from iraq was the wrong decision and had jeopardized the national security of this country by putting iraq in a position we

are facing potentially afghanistan pre-2001 who would it be? >> we got it wrong in 2003 and four, the entire party. but so did 70% of americans but we got it wrong. and iraq has made fools out of all of us so many times. i don't think people should be pointing fingers at each other and saying you were miserably wrong from '03 to '07 understanding again this is george bush's baby. he is ultimately responsible for 4,500 americans dying and he is ultimately responsible for trillions of dollars spent over there. understanding that, i think we look and we understand that republicans got it wrong and a lot of democrats like hillary clinton and john kerry and john edwards and al gore and bill clinton got it wrong on iraq. they were self-righteous a few years later, but a few years

later they were -- by the way, i got to say this. i know we are early late in the hour but read what "the new york times" editorial page and "the washington post" editorial said when george w. bush was elected president. they said one of the graes grav threats for humanity was saddam hussein. it was george w. bush who got it wrong in 2003. he made the decision. he was chiommander in chief. it's on him but everybody got it wrong. if i were a republican i'd keep my mouth shut like if i were a democrat i'd keep my mouth shut getting the surge wrong and withdrawing from iraq wrong. willie, where do we go from here? >> exactly what i was going to say. i think the whole conversation about whose fault this is not constructive and it's symptomatic of our political media culture right now where you have to defend either george w. bush if you're conservative or defend the president if you're progressive. that doesn't talk about the real

problem which is what is happening right now and how we fix it with this president. we can have fights about whether or not the war was a good idea and have fights whose fault it was but it's not helpful and not pushing things forward. >> it's not clear actually at this stage whether this is something america can fix. >> right. >> what if we do? ezra klein, we will talk about this coming up. thank you. chris matthews will join us at the top of the 7:00 a.m. hour. plus, governor bobby jindal was for education standards before he was against it. why the possible 2016 contender is looking to roll back louisiana's education standards even his education chairman is calling it a political maneuver. >> you know what i say, mika? >> what do you say? >> i say louisiana tests and louisiana standards for louisiana children. okay? now maybe you hate louisiana. i don't. i love the state. have you ever been to new orleans? it's a great place. baton rouge on a saturday night? uh-ho! ♪

♪

beautiful live picture this morning in washington. the united states capitol. joining bus a look at the political playbook the president and also ceo. >> management. >> of politico in new york. >> he doesn't look like any ceo i know. >> jim van tadehei. jim, what is going on here? >> this is a really interesting political issue and also a very interesting substantive issue. bobby jindal who championshiped these common core standards that set math and language skill standards and expectations for kids kindergarten through high school used executive order to unilaterally pull out of a common core and he has caught quite a flap. initially fs for it and now

against it. interesting at the base of the party. the party has turned genagainst common core and taken off among the tea party. glenn beck is a champion of doing it and bobby jindal who wants to run in 2016 taking the lead in trying to push other republican governors to undo it. that puts him sort of really at odds in a pretty powerful way with jeb bush who is out there defending is saying you need these standards. unless you set the standards high and unless you track this stuff, that you're going to continue to have underperforming schools. it's a great fault like inside the republican party and, again, one of the most interesting modern twists on this debate how do you get schools at the state level to start performing better. >> as you point out this is a bit of a flip-flop for bobby jindal.

arne duncan called him out on this. jindal was one of the marquee faces of common core early on. >> people don't pay a lot of attention to common core in washington but the state level it's a contentious area for the left and the right. people think it's too lenient and too tough and some think too much intervention and not enough. i think it's become a litmus test for the tea party members. if you're for it you're too liberal in their eyes and have been conservative for the repeal of it and seen out in several states. i think all of them actually run by republican governors. so bobby jindal sort of aligns himself with the base. is it more about politics or he is truly opposed to it but louisiana doesn't have the best school system in the world and now that burden will be on him if they replace it and they have to replace it with something that exceeds the expectation i think of common core which we saw indiana do. >> the base in iowa doesn't like

common core so bobby returns to baton rouge and says no common core. >> it doesn't seem to be what common core has done in the state of louisiana necessarily. >> jim vandehei, a look inside the political playbook, thanks so much. >> take care. see you later. defending champ spain, can you believe this? >> unbelievable. >> this is real. >> it's never happened. >> they won the euro in '08 and won the world cup in '10 and won the euro in '12. >> four years ago won the whole deal and now on their way home. plus why chilean fans are thrown out of the country. ♪ whatever you're looking for hey ♪ ...is more. there's a reason it's called an "all you can eat" buffet. and not a "have just a little buffet". that's the idea behind the more everything plan.

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a lovely start. >> not a good picture of us. >> what clubs? what teams? >> it's liverpool. >> by the way, all of the kids -- you know, i understand that all of the kids are looking like that now. >> which high school? >> in the south. in the south! >> yeah. >> of course, i'm -- if you go back to that, brian schweitzer will tell you i'm wearing a miniskirt and high heels. >> that's what i'm looking at. it's not good. >> i'm from the south, brian schweitzer.

>> do sports and start with the world cup. chile fans were a bit too excited for their big match with spain. >> they didn't have tickets so they rushed through the gates. >> you got to do it. >> you don't do that. >> got messy inside they knocked over a temporary wall in the stadium media center and 15 minutes to get the people under control. 85 arrested. many of them expelled from the country. >> because the people of brazil do not put up with that. >> they are shocked. >> what happened? >> those fans missed quite a game for their home country. chile jumps on defending world champ spain early with two first half goals and chile wins 2-0 wayne that shocking loss, their second of the tournament already, spain, the defending 2010 world cup champs because the first team to be eliminated from the tournament. >> katty, you and i are the only ones i think that follow the beautiful game here. >> i've been watching this. >> i've actually watched it.

>> have you? >> it's amazing. >> this is such a stunner. i mean spain was supposed to win the whole thing. brazil was the favorite. spain, the second. this is unbelievable. >> if anyone had told you that spain would not make it out of the group stage, i would never have believed them. >> and the u.s. might. >> the u.s. might do and england might not do. >> spain has had the greatest soccer team in six years, eight years. it's all over. >> you look at the way the teams are shaping up. germany so on strong every game. netherlands so strong every game. you're starting to see the teams that are really playing well. >> i guess spain is not the first to be the defending champ knocked out in group play but the first to knocked out losing first two games and they are out. croatia and cameroon. alex song throws an obvious elbow. >> you don't do that, mika. >> no, you don't. >> did he hit him is the

question. >> the referee wastes no time and pulls out the red card. two teammates get into it in the final minute for cameroon. one head-butting the other. come on now. >> come on! >> croatia wins and cameroon is the second team laemteliminated >> three matches on the slate today. columbia takes on cote d'ivoire a and. >> you'll see suarez come back and play. >> hard to follow the superstars. >> we love it so much and then we need national therapy after it. >> roger bennett says they are head cases. you got the tabloid suffocating and they wither on the international stage.

>> we play a lot of matches beforehand. >> the epl, nobody cares but the toughest league so on english players get beaten up and by the time they go to world cup. you'll have anybody saying that. the spanish players saying they don't know how english players play in such a rough league week after week after week because you got 20 good, solid tough teams. >> cross your fingers today. >> coming up, is there anything that would possess you to wear a pink seer-sucker jacket? >> nothing like donny deutch trying to be a wasp and no shocks. you're not welcome in new caiman. >> also coming up the newest issue of "time" magazine and not mincing words with trouble in the middle east. are we witnessing, quote, the

end of iraq. hey there can i help you? shhhhhh (whispering) sorry (whispering) hi, uh we need a new family plan. (whispering) how about 10 gigs f data to share and unlimited talk and text. (whispering) oh ten gigs sounds pretty good. (whispering) yeah really good. (whispering) and for a family of four, it's $160 a month (impressed, breaks whisper mode) what! get outta here! (whispering) i'm sorry are we still doing the whisper thing? or? (whispering) o! sorry! yes yes! we'll take it. at&t introduces our best-ever family pricing. for instance, a family of four gets 10 gigs of data, with unlimited talk & text, for $160 dollars a month. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans.

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♪ all right. live shot on this thursday morning. beautiful look at washington, d.c. and the white house a as the sun comes up. joining is nancy gibbs, managing editor of "time" magazine the new issue "the end of iraq" is out now. it could be. >> if you look at the namap, nancy, the danger end of iraq could cause such chaos in the middle east. you look at the countries out around it. it could be the end of the middle east as we know it. >> all of these boundaries drown by western powers who have not understood. i think for the american people we wake up every week to see what city has just fallen and how did we get here so quickly?

of course, the answer it's taken 1,400 years and we have been here all of this time. this isn't something we could be measuring in news cycles and op-ed pieces and arguments. yes, there were many failures in u.s. policy but, before that, failures of europe policy and before that of the empire. this goes back to 632. these are not hatreds that we were in a position to resolve instantly and i think that is one reason why the mystifying nature of how this erupted so quickly and so violently and is so hard for the american people to grapple with. >> i was wondering if the piece -- we were talking earlier about what can be done and is there a useful role that america could have? >> what if we don't do anything? i think people would like to know the answer to that question. >> michael crowley who cites the piece you may not be interested in war but war is interested in you. i'm not sure the united states has the option of pulling back

and doing nothing, because sooner or later, you know, you have hundreds, if not more, people holding european passports who have flooded in to fight with the extremists. you have multiple other fragile countries, you know, jordan at risk. >> jordan remaining in the balance and saudi arabia, of course. listen to the countries that border iraq. saudi arabia which is always -- had great challenges from extremists. jordan. of course, syria. turkey. iran. it is -- >> a nato member right on the border. >> in the moment it seems that the administration is looking at air strikes. a short-term solution. really is a is you've pointed out this is part of a huge continuum of history if we go in with air strikes now and pull back again where is iraq in six months or three years or five years? >> is it even possible?

the end of iraq as a line is both of description what we are seeing. the end of iraq as we know it with its current configuration as an artificial nation state and hard to imagine if that survives what is happening. also what is the end of this cycle of violence? how does this play out? and i think you know what is confounding is as we look at the debates we are having about iran and its nuclear policy, are we now fighting with them against sunni extremists? we have different allies and different fights we are fighting simultaneously. >>' help kill americans from 2003 to 2008. >> joe manchin, a piece here, no secret being governor of a state and makes no secret about that and he tells john my worst day of governor was better than my best day as a senator. >> he says he has never been

less producer in his litive in n as a senator. we asked john to do this because it captures the dynamic on capitol hill right now. somebody went to washington thinking i'm a moderate democrat, a swing vote. everyone has to deal with me to get something done. he discovers no one wants to get anything done so no one is dealing with him. if you've been a governor in a position to be very effective to go to the senate and discover how little it is possible to do and what tiny things count as a victory really does encapsulate the further state of our democrats. >> joe manchin went to get stuff done. oh, well. the caption. give that headline writer a raise. >> he tells john how he wasn't keen on buying any real estate in washington so he lives on a house boat. he doesn't know how long he wants to be there. >> oh, my gosh! >> he is going back to west virginia. >> not surprise me to see the governor's mansion back -- >> the new cover of e"time"

magazine." nancy gibbs, thank you very much. >> why don't women have the confidence they need? why don't they just grow a pair? you know, that is my book. grow a pair! >> that looks like it was fun. >> wow! >> more from their interview with the future late show host next on "morning joe." i spent my entire childhood seeing the world in reverse, and i loved every minute of it. but then you grow up and there's no going back. but it's okay, it's just a new kind of adventure. and really, who wants to look backwards

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♪ ♪ the confidence code, the sentence and art of self-assurance, what women should know. why do women need a book to teach them to be confident? isn't needing a book needy? >> it is. >> why don't women have the confidence they need? why don't they just grow a pair? you know? that is my book. "growing a pair womanhood the colbert way." >> but it works for pup men routinely overestimate their abilities by 30% and women tend to underestimate their ability. what we are trying to do with

this book is get women's perception of their talents in line with their real talents. women have plenty of talents. we just think they don't. >> you're always confident. why it dit take two of you to write the book? did you not have the confidence to write it by yourself? >> oh, my gosh. that looks like fun! >> it was so much fun. >> you say there was a special moment last night where he broke out of character? >> he did. i think they probably edited it out of the tape but he talked about his daughter and her issues being a perfectionist in her studies and working super hard. this issue clearly resonated with him because of what sees with the women in his family. >> good job. >> it was fun. you can't prepare at all for colbert. >> you really can't. coming up at the top of the hour, speaking of not being prepared for this, it's donny deutch's strategy session. ask him how he tackled damage control for some organizations with messaging problems this morning.

>> and brian schweitzer. >> you're still notwoman in the club, donny. >> plus "hardball" chris matthews joins the conversation with tough words against vice president dick cheney or chiny as he calls him. we will be right back. what i needed was information i could trust on how to take care of me and my baby. luckily, unitedhealthcare has a simple program that helps moms stay on track with their doctors and get the right care and guidance-before and after the baby is born. simple is good right now. (anncr vo) innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. when laquinta.com sends him a ready for you alert the second his room is ready, ya know what salesman alan ames becomes? i think the numbers speak for themselves. i'm sold! a "selling machine!" ready for you alert, only at lq.com. explaining my moderate to severe so there i was again,

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♪ all right. look at new york city. beautiful thursday morning. welcome back to "morning joe." katty kay is still bus. joining the table we have "morning joe" contributor john heilemann. >> john! >> hi there. >> we have the chairman of deutch incorporated, donny

deutch. chris matthews will be with us in a moment. >> so i can ask heilemann something? >> then we have to do the strategy session. >> did you see the nationals lat ni last night in brooklyn? >> i didn't but i'm going tonight. people say it is great. being outdoor show in the intense humidity, they say bring bug spray. >> you stand up and it's very, very hot. since hi three days of, like, working from 4:00 in the morning until at 11:00 at night, i called joey and said, you're going to stand up in 85-degree weather three hours late in the night yourself but he said it was amazing. >> people, like, everyone i know who have gone said it's fantastic and i'm looking forward to going tonight but i'm not wearing the ser-sucker thing but the white shirt and polo shorts. >> a story behind this. behind me trying to push candy

stripers day. >> good day. >> a sad story last year. you brought me so save the children. >> no socks? do you think the wasp country clubs will let you in? >> no, we know that didn't happen. they let you in and you said i'm only staying an hour and a half. >> when donny comes up to visit my house i have to meet him at the exit. >> believe it or not. >> it looks like a candy striper thing. >> it's national candy striper day and trying to get it going. >> we are offering this public service to our viewers. >> for people and brands going through a tough time. >> exactly. >> donny is holding a strategy session on how to turn their brands around. are we really doing that? >> i don't know. >> president obama -- >> let's start with brian schweitzer. he wants to be president of the united states and wants to run against hillary clinton.

he said guys in the south are effeminate and do we have the exact quote? >> he also talked about eric cantor and said they have like mannisms that are effeminate. >> he is accepting it. >> he is. >> it went downhill from there. >> you listen to eric cantor and the dot dot dots. >> he said some awful things. he really should just stay out. >> do you recover from that? >> no. >> okay, good. next one. president obama has two years left in his term but little political will to accomplish inning and he is suffering from historic lows in his polling. chuck todd said yesterday on this set that his presidency is all but over. so what can he do to get the american public and congress back on board? strategy session. donny, go. >> he is sitting at 41%. had he a disastrous 2005. if getting things done and accomplished that he talked about, did i say 2005? i meant 2013.

he had the inauguration. what does he do? he has two years. >> the interesting thing is from the record, you know, he bet his presidency on health care. guess what? health care has been a wild success. it's not even on the table any more. so what is on the table right now is what is going on over here. the more you know the more frightening it gets. the only chance he has to save his presidency and this is not the reason to do it, is if he somehow sticks his chest out and somehow gets the united states or comes up with a plan that saves this region. >> you say health care has been a wild success. it hasn't. >> yes, it has. >> a lot of challenges. it was one of the roughest launches. >> i'm not talking about the launch. they beat the numbers right now and people are paying their premiums. you have to give it that. >> it's functioning. >> it was game changing legislation. whether you agree with it or not. >> no one loved it. >> he expanded the roles of people who are insured with health care is what he wanted to

do. >> you're talking about how does he get be effective the last two years. you were making assumptions that at least half of americans have not made which health care has been a smashing success. look at the poll numbers. >> by the way, the only thing right now he can do, because he can't -- that has been a success as far as getting the job done, is the perception of his strengths and his lame duckness and incompetency has got to happen in iraq. >> here is chris matthews standing by. we will go to him in a second. finish up with hillary clinton. this is stunning to me. you have a book that is supposed to be a soft launch. it's a year before any tough campaigning starts. it should be -- it just be glory days going around talking about what a wonderful wild ride it's been. instead, hillary has been knocked around a good bit, terrible stories over the past week or two.

plooe politically. and her approval ratings have plummeted. >> the problem is we have never in our lifetime had a candidate, a pending candidate, other than incumbent given this is you're a candidate. the media and public don't like that. whether you like hillary or not. i think she is the most qualified candidate. it's not new news. the last problem she has like ability. her simple solution, simple solution is a dance with jimmy fallon. they needs to really let her hair down. we need to like her. we believe she's competent. the opposite of obama. like, don't believe. she has the opposite problem. clearly there's been a high degree of competency over many years with some gaffes but do i like her? the american public doesn't

right now. dance with jimmy fallon. >> i've never her for a very long time. i like her but i can't speak for the rest of the american people, but i like her but she has a hard time when she goes from being hillary to being candidate and she always had a difficult time. >> she needs to be a human being. >> it happened in new york. it happened when she ran for president the first time. let's bring in chris matthews. >> chris, thank you for the jacket, by the way, i had a sleepover at chris' the other night. he let me go through his closet. >> chris, i want to talk about a couple of things. we covered it the first hour. the first was a big battle, people on the left and right. everybody pointing fingers over iraq at a time where we're in trouble and we need to come together. >> right. >> secondly than joe manchin story in "time" magazine where joe manchin came to washington to get things done. he said his worst day as a

governor was better than his best days as a senator. we are facing now a meltdown in iraq that could cause a meltdown in the middle east and could have international ramifications for us all. what do we do right now moving forward? >> well, i have an answer for all of those questions. joe manchin comes from coal country state and challenges re-elected at some point so he has to be very much an independent. clearly every senator you've ever met says the same thing about being a senator. nowhere as much fun as being a governor. the problem all governors are term limited and would love to be governor for life. it's a real job, an executive position and not showing up in voting all day long. so, clearly, manchin is like any other senator i ever met. like toing back to being a governor. they had power. on the iraq war i thought george will was fascinating comment.

what we ought to do is ask the simple question should we ever have gone into iraq and he says the answer is manifest. here is a conservative speaking. a thoughtful conservative. maybe we should start with the idea we shouldn't have gone in and now we should ask the question again right now should we go in? and what level right or moral right do we have to go in there and start killing people on one side or the other? the president is is not asking for congressional approval yesterday. why not? what authority does he have to go in killing people in iraq again? i think we ought to reconsider where we are in that part of the world. >> i thought it was very interesting. you got a couple of quotes from mitchell mcconnell and talk about strange bedfellows, nancy pelosi saying the president doesn't need our authority to do anything and nancy pelosi of all people saying, i forget the exact quote but pretty stunning she said to the president, you don't need our approval for anything. >> i don't know what that means. it seems to me that the president has the right to command troops in the field.

he has a right to protect the american citizens but to go in there and start strafing isis. clearly the only thing excited the baghdad people is the idea of a sectarian war pr these young guys are joining up to fight for the shia against the sunni and nothing aroused them like this before. religion is the only thing that excites those people. >> chris, i take it you believe we should stay out at all costs? >> what right do we have to go in and decide whether we go in under authority? you don't decide to kill people in the world. where did that come from? >> what do we do? >> what if we do nothing? >> everybody agrees on this. a political solution is the first solution. and it's like saying hillary clinton should loosen up. i remember a weather man at channel 7 in washington and weighed 300 pounds and told jokes. the news director after hiring him why don't you lose weight and stop telling jokes? this is expecting people to change. maliki won't change.

hillary clinton i thought was fine in the interviews on cnn and fox but that is probably as good as it gets. i thought she was loosey-goosey compared to the last week and i thought she was for example very good. you know why presidents lose the first debate? they start out is the favorite a and the standard is high and hillary's last week was like being an incumbent at her first debate. this is the second week. i think she is very much at her game. >> chris, what do we do in iraq? >> call maliki and say you notice you're asking us to be your air power. what are are you doing for us? >> what do you need from maliki? >> a re-election that the sunni and shia will run that country together and not about numbers. we have this blind faith in democracy the most numbers should run the country. under that rule does that make them better and get magob for

years? one tribe wins the other tribes althoughs so we have it in iraq. we have got democracy there because the shi run the show after 300 years and the sunni don't like it and they are joining up with isis. we have to stop playing god and nation building is not our strength. clearly not. i say to maliki you want us to be an ally, be our ally. we believe in a government that is going to unite their country. he ain't going to do it, by the way. he ain't going to do it. >> when the generals were surrounding him and had pressure to exert on him. he ignored us. >> the sunni indicted him he is supposedly sharing power with. he sent those signals along the line he was for the playing ball with us on a pluralistic democracy and he is not going to do it. >> john heilemann, you could see

this coming like a freight train out of the mist, you could see it coming at you as a professor of mine used to say. you have nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell and dianne feinstein and democrats and republicans who be shocked after president obama goes ahead and doing what they are giving him the nod to do right now and put military people over there and military forces over there and what targets to hit. do you see these coming in these meetings? we are sending military people over there whether official washington is saying it or not. >> it appears to be the case. i will say all of these people will they were in congress or not are haunted by 2003 and having made votes they were later embarrassed by and on the democratic side in particular who we went back and played the tape all of the people wrong about iraq. the last thing in the world that these congress people want on both sides of the aisle is accountability. >> now they are pointing to --

>> now saying the war powers act? i don't know what that is! the last thing i want us to have to have to do -- mr. president, you make this decision on your own because i don't want any part of this thing. >> everybody is talking about president obama. >> it is not only amazing, mika, but it is amazing given the fact that what happened in iraq in 2003. >> yeah. >> what happened in iraq in 2003 and now you have congress going, mr. president, you just decide we are not going to be -- >> everybody is talking about 2003 and everyone is talking about president obama and how his foreign policy is convoluted and he doesn't know what is he doing. you just nailed it. you said we are all haunted by 2003. i think it's hampering any decisions being made and keeping us from doing the right thing now, because everyone is so scared. >> kept them from doing anything in syria. >> it's complicated by what happened last september over in

syria. congress and the white house both saying, we don't want to go there again. we do not want to be in that position where a white house goes to congress for a vote and might not get it. >> i want to go back to chris. we disagree on hillary and two facts that came out the last week although her performance was very good. number one, nobody is buying the book. number two, nobody showed up to watch her on tefglevision. this is a question for me people don't want to push the hillary button. i'm tired. there is no new news there. my pie whether it is her or not, she needs to reenergize herself. people are not showing up literally and figuratively and you've got to look at that. >> yeah. i think the idea of writing a book with a lot of exciting edges and handles to it probably wasn't her goal. her goal was to write a book which was pretty wonkish and she did so, i assume. there is sort of a counter push here. people say loosen up and say

what you want and operate instinctively and we will catch if you make mi mistakes. if you say anything we don't like we will jump all over you and the case the first week. i thought she was pretty loose the other day. i would say if she started the way she ended on cnn and fox. i think point to one thing. the problem in the republican party is that although some people might think she is weak, i don't think the republican establishment thinks she is weak. i think there is real questions on the part of jeb bush if he gets through a very difficult caulk s and primary season. if he makes it to big money states like florida and michigan which is the same goal if mitt dropped back can you get past the crazy and wild stuff that goes on in iowa and the religious stuff and that if you have enough bankroll you can get to the states and possibly win the nomination but can you beat hillary? i don't see a lot of guys racing to that goal. maybe mitt can do it. he seems to be the one whobl

believes he can do it all. >> interesting. >> i think you see the republicans like jeb, i think you'll see them slowly walking towards the exits when the lines go down and the main feature starts. because a lot of money people believe that hillary's got this. a lot of republican money people believe. >> that's what i'm saying. >> yeah, i'm agreeing with you in my own awkward way. >> it's too early to anoint anybody. i believe we are a page turning moment. i think people want a fresh page. jeb bush and hillary clinton are n not fresh. i love hillary. >> i agree with. >> who is tougher on hillary? terry gross or brett baird? >> terry gross. >> terry gross is very smart and wouldn't ghent off hillary.

brett baird did benghazi and that wasn't dangerous at all. >> the reason why is the left didn't trust hillary clinton in 2008 and not trust her in 2016. i'm talking about the tough left like people who are interview on npr, it's the truth! guy, listen to this show on saturday morning like on the media or something! i cannot believe how liberal those shows are. but the hardened left, people that run npr shows, didn't trust her in '08 and in '16 she won't be trusted on the hard left because she is close with goldman sacks and wall street. the clinton's are wall street. in her position as secretary of state she always took the position of intervention. she is a neocon. i want mika to get before she blows up, i want mika to get to

this cheney script. >> i thought it was fascinating. >> you've been wanting to get to this cheney strip a long time. they will love this on npr. >> i'm wondering what chris thinks. white house press secretary jay carney marked his final day at the podium with rebuke of the previous administration. so a reporter basically paraphrased what dick cheney said in his latest sort of roll out of his new organization with hays daughter and made comments about this administration and so jay carnin was asked about that. easement rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many, talking about the situation in iraq, and the middle east. >> which president was he talking about? >> i believe he was talking about president obama. >> i -- look. it's, obviously, always good to hear from former vice president cheney. >> time and time again, history has proven you got it wrong as

well in iraq, sir. you said there was no doubts that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. you said we would be greeted as liberators and the iraq was in the throes in 2005. what do you say to those who say you were so wrong about so much at the expense of so many? >> no. i just fundamentally disagree, reagan or megan. look at the track record. we inherited a situation there was no doubt in anybody's mind about the extent of saddam's involvement and weapons of mass destruction. we had a situation where if we, after 9/11, we were followed about a follow-on attack that would involve not just airline tickets and box cutters as the weapons but something far deadlier, perhaps a nuclear weapon. we did the right thing and i think the troops performed

magnificently. >> chris matthews, your response. >> cheney is awful, first of all, he is just awful. the reason is we used to have a protocol in this country that when you left office after you're eight years in the washington and you're the vice president you left town. you got out of town. this guy is still running these salons and hanging around the american enterprises and the neocons. i think megan kelly is great and stood up to him and karl rove on election night and keeps earning her spurs as a journalist. >> democratic presidents, chris, when they left town, a lot of democratic presidents don't just quietly go off and retire to hope arkansas. they stay. >> this guy has not been decent. back to dick cheney. he and miller and "scotter" libby put things on one time on monday and get on "meet the press" on sunday and systematically building the case their weapons of mass

destruction, there was yellow cake from nyjer and trying to build a bowing urs cagus case. >> you had the cia director going into the white house handing president bush a report on weapons of mass destruction in iraq a year after 9/11 and george bush saying, "is this all you have?" the cia director whose job is to brief the presidents on such things above all of that ground noise you say jumped up and said, mr. president, it's a slam dunk. i'm not saying it was a slam dunk. i'm just saying, it's not just that it was all smoke in mirrors back then that a lot of people, 70% of americans agreed with dick cheney. >> but he still does now. >> the fact no nuclear weapons. >> the cia director as well. >> i'm not justifying what george tenet did. there was a lot of interplay

between the vice president's office and the special group over at the defense department. a lot of pressure to cook up those numbers. by the way, do you think colin powell's testimony was complete and honest before the united states -- united nations. do you think that was true? >> i have information that colin powell from friends in the intel community that colin powell was not given the full story. >> then it wasn't true. who was playing this game behind the scenes to get us in that war? dick cheney and "scotter" libby. >> again, i'm not defending what happened in 2003. >> hold on. you got to let me finish the sentence here. do we just focus on dick cheney and say that it was all dick cheney's fault or do we look at hillary clinton? do we look at al gore? do we look at john kerry or "the new york times" editorial page or the "the washington post" editorial page when bush came into power said saddam hussein was the greatest threat to

america -- to world peace? i mean, i'm not saying they didn't get it all wrong. they got it all wrong. >> do you believe that? did you believe he was a threat to saddam hussein. >> i did. bill clinton in 1998 was passing resolutions saying we had to get saddam hussein how far power. go back and look at the words. all of our words are written down clearly what happened at that time. i'm just wondering whether we should not just focus on dick cheney as the sinner of evil in the singular puppet master here, chris. >> well, i think he was. >> there you go. >> everyone's record where they stood on the war in iraq in 2001 when would haveford pushing at camp david at 9/11. they were pushing it from the beginning. it had nothing to the with

weapons of mass destruction. even at the time they admitted to bring the europeans aboard. >> i never told people to go buy my book but look at my book and i have a chapter on this being critical of the bush and i have a chapter and quote everybody chapter and verse what everybody said start in 2001. i guarantee you a lot of democrats don't want to see that read as many as a lot of republicans. >> if you go back and look at the debate in that time frame, there were liberal idealists who look look at saddam hussein he gassed his own people. >> tried to get nuclear weapons. >> people on the left who believe in liberal intervention and thought a good thing for the people in iraq and the region to get rid of saddam hussein and thought regardless he had weapons of mass destruction that this was a just cause. that is true. and many of those liberals now

regret think -- they now have apologized or regret their position and regret their position. the thing i think chris is right about -- >> the central thing here i'm writing about is that is what was sold to us! >> chris, let john finish his sentence. he is trying to agree with you. go ahead. >> there is a tradition. joe, you made the point that democratics presidents haven't gone off and into a cave after they retire but the truth is bill clinton didn't spend his post-presidency attacking george w. bush and george w. bush has not spent his post-presidenting attacking barack obama. >> would you like knee get pictures of al gore in san francisco in 2004 screaming at the top of his lungs and former vice president attacking talking about brown shirts? please! i'm not saying dick cheney is right or a saint but the double standard here is ridiculous. >> again, i'm not saying there aren't exceptions but there has been a tradition, i think you would acknowledge, that

generally past administrations try to give the next administration a lot of latitude. >> as they should. hold on. let me just say they should. >> what dick cheney has done from the day that he left office until today has been relentless vocal critic that george w. bush has not been of the obama administration. as mika said it's surreal to hear him making arguments that have now been by, over time, regardless what people believed in 2003 have now been debunked. he is saying he still believes things he argued in 2003 we all know are not true. they have been proven wrong and so the combination of the criticism the fact he has not acknowledged with any humility he may have been wrong about things in 2003 i think makes the criticism absurd. >> final thoughts of chris.

chris? >> you know, i think that -- the way the war was sold, as we all remember, was through the series of conflagss. we had 9/11. we had to get even. iraq was the target zone. they may have -- the real button pusher for a lot of people was nuclear. they made the case at the end they had nuclear. joe, you're the political guy as well as i am. as limited as george w. bush was able to take us under war and a whole new pretense. we were always against the aggressor. we were -- the aggressor was the bad die. we went to war with a country that did not declare war on us and did not commit an act of war against us. we just decided that we, the united states, would go into a country in the middle east and blow it apart and take it over! where did we get that moral authority and what i want to remind americans of this second! where is your moral authority to go in there and take sides of a

sectarian war right now? think about it. if we creep into this war that is bad for the president. he shouldn't sneak into this war a few military advisers here and find ourselves fighting for baghdad. under what moral authority are we on the shia side against the sunni side? that is what i'd like somebody to answer. >> that is the question right now that we have to ask. which is what do we do now? conservatives got it wrong in '03 in the biggest of ways. liberals got it wrong this '07. apparently president obama got it wrong when he said we were leaving iraq stable and sovereign iraq in 2011. the question what do we do now? chris asks very good questions. >> i think they are fair questions. he talks about where people stood on iraq and it's also where do they stand now in light of those decisions. you have someone like dick cheney doubling you down. i want to know more and hear more and i think over 4,000 lives that many felt were lost

in vain and there is a lot of emotion on both sides of this as we consider going back in. >> there is no doubt, though, mika, if we had not made that mistake in thr2003, we would no let syria melt down the way it is and we were so haunted by 2003, we allowed syria to happen and when we allowed syria to happen, we are now allowing iraq to melt down because it's bleeding over there. and, again, i agree. we have to be very careful but what comes next? how many more reggfugees and americans go up in flame. >> a state that is carved partly out of syria and partly out of iraq where sunni militants can move around with impunity and taking weapons and money with them. >> and oil refineries. >> are we looking at a re-creation of pre-9/11 in afghanistan? it is quite a possibility and a national security threat to

america so what do you do about that? >> chris matthews, thank you very much. we will be watching "hardball" weekdays at 7:00 p.m. still ahead the conversation is all about iraq but the next guest warns we can't fight in iraq while ignoring syria. it's implicated. making history at the u.s. women's open. willie geist will introduce us to the golf phenom who is sinking birdies. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪

♪ welcome back to "morning joe." here with us from princeton, new jersey. former state department official and now president and ceo of the new american foundation ann marie slaughter and in washington political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. chuck, i want to get the latest from you. i don't know if you heard our conversation over the past 15 minutes, but would you agree

that we perhaps would be in syria or in a syria right now if we were not haunted by 2003? >> well, i think it's pretty clear we would be. i mean, just look at sort of where people like john kerry, that group of semihawkish senators, now former senators, i think that wing of the democratic party would have been very supportive of more intervention in syria. it's funny. when does public opinion matter and when it doesn't. on something like this, i think public opinion definitely has an impact on this. look. you go back to bosnia. the country was still recovering from vietnam syndrome. this is an iraq war syndrome i think impact lawmakers probably another generation. took u.s. 30 years frankly to get over vietnam politically. >> you wrote a piece in "the new york times" this week, ann,

you're arguing for the use of force in syria and now that is being considered, in fact, by the white house. what did you mean by use of force? what should we expect specifically? is it drone or boots on the ground or what is it? >> one thing we know it is not the boots on the ground. there is nobody, absolutely no one who is calling for boots on the ground in syria or iraq. this is really about air power. this is about the sail kind of air power we used finally in serbia or in libya. certainly over a year now, many are saying if you do not use force in syria, if you don't stop what is happening in syria, isis is going to grow. isis is trying to create an islamic state basically al qaeda

state in western iraq and eastern syria and that is exactly what is happening. you're just watching it get worse and worse and worse. at every moment, the costs of going in and the complications seem overwhelming so we don't do anything and it just gets worse still. >> ann marie, this piece you argue that we need to be involved in both iraq and in syria and i just want to ask you a question. we had a conversation on the show a couple of days ago with bill kristol. what do you do in a situation where there is very little public support for military intervention after ten years of two wars in this country? we don't want to govern by -- and you need -- whether it's ground forces or even air power. what do you do with the fact the country is so strongly against the notion of getting back involved in a region where there has been so much bloodshed and money spent to so little effect the last decade? >> well, you have to make the

case. i mean, to go back to bosnia. the country was not supportive of going in and bombi serbia or bosnia itself. the president has nik the case this is absolutely in the united states interests for multiple reasons. at this point what you're looking at is the establishment in the heart of the middle east of afghanistan before 9/11. in other words, a state in which al qaeda operates completely freely and which jihadists from all over the world, including americans and europeans, flock there, get trained. they are already radicalized and they fan back out and can attack us at home and around the world. that is the starting position. that is really when the president came in and said afghanistan was the right war at the right time. he was saying, you know, we have

to on attack al qaeda where they are. that is the first issue. the second is the destabilization of the entire middle east means oil prices go through the roof. that, you know, we are not energy-independent yet and still dependent on the price of oil markets. third, this region is a critical region for our allies, for turkey, for israeli, for iraq, and we are watching the region come apart and it is originally started in syria. >> all right. >> if we don't act in syria, we are not going to be able to stop it. >> anne-marie slaughter, great to have you on. thank you so much. chuck todd see you at 9:00 a.m. on "the tale rundown. you don't see this he every day. police chasing a suspect on a minnesota golf course. tell you how it ended. an 11-year-old golf prodigy set to tee off in the women's u.s. open. we will introduce you to the youngest american to ever qualify for the tournament. we will be right back.

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♪ you got to see this piece of videotape right here. on the links of minnesota and teeing on 16 and 17 and you get a little surprise. a high speed police cheese

breaks out on the course. police chasing a pickup truck on the fair wane and suspect wanted for stolen property and drug charges. >> this happens every time i golf. >> is that right? >> i'm being chased. >> the guy was later arrested after the chase ended at a mall in fargo, north dakota! a long chase! >> a wild ride. >> no one was hurt. but it's good he was in a truck and not in a golf cart because he would have been caught much more quickly. >> good analysis of the story, john. well done. the u.s. women's open tees off today and it has actually at pinehurst in north carolina. the talk of the tournament is youngest player ever to qualify for this major tournament lucy li. she is a sixth grader. >> reporter: don't let the braces or the pigtails fool you. lucy li is ready to play with the grownups at the age of 11. she is about to compete on golf's biggest stage.

younger than other recent phenoms like lexie thompson and lydia coe. she is handling press conferences like an old pro. >> what do you think of playing in front of crowds and getting attention? >> i like crowds. they don't bother me. i play better the more people that come watch me. >> reporter: is there anything about this week that makes you nervous? >> not really. >> reporter: no? >> reporter: she spent half of her young life preparing for this. since 6 split her time between california's bay area and golf school in florida. this is video of her swinging away at 8 and here is a slow motion drive at the age of 9. michelle wie who turned pro at 16 is already a fan. >> she looks so darn cute! >> reporter: wie's advice? >> go out there, try to learn as much as you can and go up to any pro. you're not scary. we won't bite. just ask us anything. >> reporter: but there are some critics, including current world number one stacy lewis.

she told "usa today," quote, i just like to see kids learn how to win before they come get beat up out here. if it was my kid i wouldn't let her play in the u.s. open qualifier at 11. as for li, the 11-year-old says it's simple. she just likes golf. >> i like golf because it's different from other sports. anybody can play it. if you're tall, short, fast, or slow, that's what i like about it. >> she is 11 years old and sixth grade. hits a 230 off the tee. >> so cute! >> as a dad maybe a minimum age. we don't let nbc players play until they are 19 years old. >> she was asked in the press conference could her father beat her. she laughed and said no! >> this family is careful. she qualified for this and they will let her play. michelle wie made mistakes early on and they have learned from her career a little bit. >> she is a baby. >> she doesn't look freaked out.

she teams to be, like, not under a lot of pressure. she is like, whatever. >> >> she is 11 years old. just saying. still ahead, promises and promises. the unfinished part of president obama's agenda that may be the most disappointing for his progressive base? that story and more when we come back. ♪

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get no less than eight hours. what? the only group with a substantial difference is the unemployed who get an extra hour of sleep. what world are we living in here, mike barnicle. >> that sounds like our weekly sleep total. >> i don't know anybody that sleeps that much. "the seattle times," amazon ceo jeff bezos unveiling what many call the worst-kept secret in the tech world. >> can we build a better phone for amazon prime members? well, i'm excited to tell you that the answer is yes. >> amazon officially entered the smartphone business yesterday with the release of its fire phone. it features a 4.7 inch screen that the company is calling 3-d capable and a viz i can't believe recognition app for music, tv shows and other products. the company hopes customers might choose to buy these

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still ahead, why the e-mails from the woman at the center of the irs scandal may never be found, ever. plus a big win for those planning to the redskins to change its mascot, which native americans and many others consider a racial slur. and bill karins has a look at the severe weather continuing to wreak havoc across the country. stay with us, we'll be right back. i know what you're thinking... transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you

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the policies of the last six years have left america diminished and weakened. our enemies no longer fear us. our allies no longer trust us. empty threats, meaningless red lines, leading from behind and engagement with rogue regimes have put america on a path of decline. >> good morning, it's thursday, june the 19th. so good to have you with us. that, of course, vice president dick cheney. >> welcome to "morning joe." everybody. >> you're going to enjoy talking about this. all the liberals across america's hair is on fire right now. and i thank the vice president for still being able to set their hair on fire. >> okay. >> with us on set, mika, who do we have? >> mike barnicle. washington anchor for bbc world

news america, katty kay. great to have you here in new york. and in washington, editor in chief of vox.com and msnbc policy analyst, ezra klein joins the conversation from washington this morning. >> great to have you guys with us. >> a lot of ground to cover today, including in iraq where the militant group isis is now in position to take control of the country's largest oil refinery. what that means for the world markets and what president obama plans to do about it. >> and a big announcement by amazon ceo chief jeff bezos. why the new fire phone is making apple and samsung very nervous. >> really? hello, willie. >> how are you. >> it's good to have you back. and the hits keep coming for general motors as the company is hit with a $10 million class action lawsuit. this comes as mary barra is dragged in front of lawmakers again on capitol hill. >> well, of course, you know, the thing that got them in trouble is that they actually have gone back and found evidence, memos and e-mails. >> exactly. >> that suggest that they knew about what was going on.

>> you can piece everything together. >> so that's a great thing that e-mails are forever. at least in advanced civilizations. >> because you can then if you look back -- >> if you go to places that look like the scene out of 2001 a space odyssey where they're like beating sticks, maybe their e-mails, you know, get lost and then they go our e-mails are lost. let's destroy all the computers! which is what the irs did. >> right. >> they said, oh wait, we lost the e-mails. we better just throw away the computers. just because we've never heard -- i mean i'm an idiot when it comes to this. >> i'm never going to get to the story, am i? >> mike barnicle, it's unbelievable. even i know that if you have a hard drive and you can't find an e-mail, you can get a little nerd to come in and they can find them for you. >> even if you take the literal computer itself and throw that away. >> he threw it away! i can't wait to hear this story.

i have no idea how it ends. >> i'm not going to get through this. >> it's strange tech support work to throw the computer away. can't figure this one out. >> hey, bob, listen, i lost my e-mails here. do i call tech support or just throw it away. >> just toss it. >> hold on, this is one of the most important people at the internal revenue service. maybe these e-mails are of some worth. do i get tech support or do i throw it away? >> take yourself to roanoke and throw it away so it's not in the office. >> my god! >> good character work. >> i'm going to try my best -- >> was that improv? >> let's all keep a straight face while i read this news story. >> so you understand when i say who are these men? who are these men? who are these idiots. >> okay. a lot to get to. >> we do have a lot to get to. i'm going to do my best. >> we've got to get dick cheney in. >> we do need to get there. e-mails from the woman at the center of the irs scandal says that the e-mails will possibly

may be nowhere to be found. >> lost forever. >> ever. republican senator orrin hatch says he was told that lois lerner's crashed hard drive was actually recycled. >> see, i like how they even, willie, how they use the word recycled. instead of we trashed the evidence and tore it up and buried it, no. we were earth friendly, willie. have you ever heard that? like what if a mobster went before a panel. where is the body? we recycled it. >> we compost is what we do. we compost out back. >> willie, i'm glad you're back. stop, okay? the hard drive was subpoenaed as evidence earlier this week as part of the investigation into the agency's targeting of conservative groups. the irs says two years' worth of e-mails sent by lerner were lost when the hard drive crashed in 2011. many i.t. experts dispute that and say there are always ways to

retrieve older e-mails. she was in charge of the tax-exempt division which began targeting conservative groups in 2010. >> i am deadly serious, mike barnicle. how does the internal revenue service in the middle of their biggest scandal, how do they go to a taxpayer and say you can't find the receipts? you weather find the receipts and justify this or you're going to jail. shouldn't somebody from the irs go to jail if this is a standard they hold the rest of americans to that? >> it's funny you ask me that because i'm going through a situation where i'm being asked to retrieve items from my tax returns, 2012, 2011. >> well, you don't need them obviously, right? >> i'm going to say i recycled them. >> one expression was washed them, which i thought was a great expression too. these computers were washed. >> willie, come on, that's auspicious. what's going on here. you know this stuff. this is your field of expertise. >> you found my wheelhouse, which is i.t. support. >> so much to get to. >> okay.

>> you wouldn't even believe it. >> that's all you get. >> we're done with that, okay. and that's been our analysis of this story. >> mika does not want to talk about this story. go ahead. >> oh, oh, no, we have others we need to get to. don't worry, i will not disappoint you. with a unique coalition of republicans supporting jon joni ernst, she is showing signs of strength in the senate rate. in the latest quinnipiac poll, she trails brace braley by just four points. ernst highlighting her experience castrating hogs attracted nationwide attention and her strategy at home seems to be working. 47% of voters say they have seen her spots often. that easily edges out the percentage that have seen her opponent's ads. and 57% of all voters say her ads have been effective. >> who takes polls like this and why are we reading them? >> meanwhile the rough and tumble mississippi republican runoff is less than a week away. thad cochran's supporters are

bringing in the heavy artillery and the latest ad comes in the form of mississippi's most famous sons. >> i've learned through football that strong leadership can be the difference between winning and losing. when it comes to our state's future, trust me, mississippi can win. and win big with thad cochran has our strong voice in washington. >> willie, let's get to that. there's a couple of things about that commercial, none of them having to do with politics. first of all, if you look at this picture, brett favre here, he sort of resembles the guy in the dr. pepper commercial that eats bark off of trees and canoes with bears? secondly, you notice something about the hair. >> the mull elt is back. >> it is coming back. >> he had the mullet when he played at southern mississippi 25 years ago and he's brought it back in retirement and i think it's working for him. >> i think the mullet is sweeping america. >> a lot to get to. did you hear what brian schweitzer said? we have to get to that. >> did you hear about this? >> but first -- >> now wait a second, willie. you went to college in the south. i went to college in the south.

this schweitzer guy says all guys in the south are efem nant and they talk funny. i want the quote. >> i'm going to get to some other stories first. this is called a deep tease, joe. >> well, i think everybody would much rather hear what he has to say about effeminate guys in the south. >> mcdaniel has sought to frame the incumbent as out of touch and cochran may have helped his opponent's case with this reaction. listen to this, to eric cantor's loss as house majority leader. >> what happened in virginia the other day, does that concern you for your chances here in this runoff? >> i don't know what you're talking about. what happened in virginia? >> with eric cantor losing his seat. >> well, i haven't really followed that campaign very closely at all. >> really? >> really. >> so no comment that you want to make. >> no, i can make a comment. you asked me what happened. i don't know. i didn't follow that campaign

very closely. >> well, eric cantor lost his seat as the majority leader. >> well, it happens. you know, members of congress, some win, some lose. it's not an automatic proposition that you get re-elected just gauze you've done a good job. voters make their own decisions and i respect their judgment. >> yeah, he says he was asked three times and was annoyed. >> by the way, somebody that was on set yesterday said that he actually talked about -- brought up cantor's loss the day before, so that guy's pissed, he was not annoyed. he was pissed off. the reporter asked him the third time about eric cantor. he's from the south, by the way. brian schweitzer says he talks effeminate. >> do you think anybody wants to hear about this compared to what brian schweitzer said. >> this could have sweeping things for other teams as well. in a 99-page decision, the u.s.

patent and trademark office cancelled the team's trademark ridge station. the federal agency ruled the name is disparaging and a racial slur. the ruling does not stop the redskins from using the team but others are not allowed to sell merchandise with the term. team owner daniel snyder has resisted efforts to change the name, which included 50 senators sending a letter to the nfl. >> it's racist. daniel snyder says it's about tradition. i ask what tradition? tradition of racism is all that that name leaves in its wake. the writing is on the wall. it's on the wall in giant, blinking, neon lights. the name will change and just as we've done across the nation who care so deeply about this issue. >> willie, do you think harry reid ever went to redskins games before? >> yes. >> do you think he set himself on fire and ran across the 50 yard line and said this is

wrong, this is wrong! i should not have taken these tickets from boeing and from other lobbyists from k street who gave me free tickets to the washington redskin games so i could be bad and pampered and treated like a greek god. this is immoral. no, he never did that, did he? >> i don't know if he's been, but i assume someone who's been in washington that long has probably been to a game. >> the redskins -- >> you're not letting willie get paid at all. i hope he doesn't get paid by the word. >> they note the trademark was revoked in 1999 but successfully challenged in court. if the position does stand, some sports analyst say other teams like the braves, blackhawks and indians may face name changes as well. >> so what happens to the redskins, let's say it goes away. i mean that's going to go away. so then what happens to the braves, what happens to the indians, what happens to the blackhawks? >> well, i mean you haven't

heard as much outcry about those. the braves we've heard some about. >> they got rid of chief knockahoma. >> it's the chop, you know. the chant. >> what you have to remember is daniel snyder does not care. he truly doesn't care. at some point maybe his hand will be forced but this just means he won't make as much money off of it. there will be more redskins merchandise on the market, not less. >> there's a black market for it. i want to bring in ezra klein here. >> it's important to hear from ezra on this. >> ezra is in washington, d.c. i was surprised when i went to washington, d.c., just how crazy people in washington, d.c., are for the redskins. i mean, you know, official washington and so official washington has been going to these redskins games since the 1930s and now suddenly they're shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. when did they wake up and realize this was an offensive

name? and do you believe this name should go away, and is this name going to go away? >> so it's not so sudden, right? we've had a fair amount of activism around the name for years. this isn't the first time the trade name has been cancelled. it got appealed about a decade ago. it's true that official washington has woken up in a much bigger way and i can't say exactly when that happened. i think there have always been a lot of people wanting to see it changed but you get into moments where suddenly things appear to be impossible all of a sudden appear like it might happen. if you add your voice into the cry then you can make it happen. now will it actually change? the problem with the redskins actually getting it changed is it's an incredibly profitable team name. one reason dan snyder doesn't care is right now dan snyder isn't getting hurt. they have a very, very loyal fan base and people do come to the games. this would, if the trademark ruling was upheld as willie

says, lead to a little bit more merchandise flooding the market and very lightly bump snyder's profits. but i think the bigger question is when you actually see him begin to feel pressure from the people he cares about, who are on a broader level. not official washington fans, but the fans at large. when you see people actually stop going to the games or when you see the fans begin to put in multi thousand person petitions. that is the thing that ultimately will move snyder. >> we'll follow this -- >> and by the way, it's not going to happen. so that's not going to hachlt because so many people who are shocked and stunned and deeply saddened are scratching and clawing to get season tickets. >> his biggest threat will come from roger goodell. >> yeah, the nfl will have to step in and stop this. >> the look on katty's face. when are we going to talk about something important. >> i was being patient, very patient.

>> this one's for you. >> this is not it. former montana governor brian schweitzer is known for his unvarnished comments. he speaks his mind. >> he talks tough. he's a rancher. look at him right there. >> he's a manly man. >> but a new interview -- >> he thinks liberals are going to want an alternative. >> in a new interview in the national journal, it shows the democrat may have some work to do in staying on message. the wide-ranging profile paints a vivid picture of the possible 2016 candidate. in the piece he reacts to the loss of house majority leader eric cantor by saying, quote, don't hold this against me, but i'm going to blurt it out. how do i say this. >> it's like barack obama saying, he says it a certain way and he should just stop. so when you say don't hold this against me, just stop. >> i probably shouldn't say this, but -- >> don't say it then.

>> men in the south, they're a little effeminate. he went on to say they just have effeminate mannerisms. if you were just a regular person, you'd turn down the tv. if you saw eric cantor talking, you'd say i'm fine with gay people. that's all right. but my gaydar is 60, 70%. >> so how do you think that will play when he runs for president in the south carolina primary. >> forget about the south carolina primary. this guy actually thinks he is going to be the progressive alternative to hillary clinton. how's that going to work out for him? >> i don't think at this moment that brian schweitzer is going to be the next president. you know, but one -- to actually maybe make like a deeper point about him, this is a guy sitting in a room with a reporter, right? this isn't something -- >> on the record. >> where something got leaked or his phone got eaves dropped. he's sitting there with a

reporter, somebody from a d.c. publication. and he thinks to himself, this is probably going to be a compelling comment to make on these issues. i don't mind politicians going off of message. >> right. >> but the fact that he thought this would be a good idea speaks to just a lack of, i think, internal discipline and sort of understanding of his audiences that it's not just a couple of off-color comments. this is not a good thing and almost not a good way for a politician's mind to work if he didn't see this would be a huge, huge, huge problem. still ahead, the always outspoken actress ali wentworth will be here. >> she's always outspoken. >> let's practice the delay right now. say something. >> i think eric cantor -- >> you'd better turn it off. also what's the one thing americans do more than work? i don't know. >> nothing good. >> can't think of anything actually. >> nothing good. >> the answer to that question is next. >> nothing good.

>> but first, bill karins can answer that question about, but i don't want to hear it. >> no, you don't want to hear what he does. i just have never known somebody that does as much as bill does. or the energy. >> good morning. we just walk right on the edge sometimes. you're trying to get me to leap, but i refuse. good morning, everyone. here's what we dealt with yesterday. out in south dakota it was your turn to deal with mother nature's wrath. three days in a row of looking at strong tornados. this one, unfortunately, went through another small farming town of wechssington springs, south dakota. it hit the town really hard. they have a lot of cleanup and work to be done. thankfully there were no injuries and no deaths. everyone got to safety. in all, 39 tornado reports. a lot of wind damage from those storms yesterday in the ohio valley. then they rolled through d.c. late last night. we've had a lot of flash flooding and we have too much water in areas of the midwest.

flooding is going to be a big story over the next couple of days. right now we're watching the worst of it. the missouri river is going to have major flooding near omaha over the weekend, and a lot of heavy rain from minneapolis down to the rochester area. today the severe weather, two spots. one little spot down there from d.c., baltimore, through virginia, virginia beach, the norfolk area, and then back out in the central plains. kansas city, omaha and unfortunately the same areas that got hit the last couple days. that's why we're going to have flooding out there. it's day after day of this. the heat wave breaks in the east with thunderstorms. yesterday was mid-90s raleigh to richmond. today those thunderstorms will cool you off this afternoon. that's why some of them can be severe. unfortunately, this area looks a little stormy into friday. that's where the hot air and cool air bump up against each other. take a look at new york city. your heat wave is over. temperatures are much cooler with rain around the area. that weather pattern will stick with you through the upcoming weekend. you're watching "morning joe."

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beautiful live picture this morning in washington. the united states capitol. joining us now with a look at the political playbook, the president and also the ceo -- >> management. >> of politico and capital new york. >> he doesn't look like any ceo i know. >> jim vandehei. jim, good morning, sir. >> good morning to you. >> let's talk a little business here. republican governor, possible, maybe presidential candidate bobby jindal of louisiana moving to withdraw his state from common core education standards. jim, what's going on here?

>> this is a really interesting political issue and also an interesting substantive issue. bobby jindal, who championed these common core standards which set math and language skill standards and expectations for kids kindergarten through high school used executive order to unilaterally pull out of common core. and it's caught quite a flap because he initially was for it and now he's against it. it's been interesting at the base of the party. the party has really turned against common core. they feel like the federal government meddling in state business. it's really taken off among the tea party. glenn beck has become a big champion of undoing it. now bobby jindal, who wants to run in 2016, is taking the lead in trying to push other republican governors to undo it. that puts him really sort of at odds in a pretty powerful way with jeb bush, who's been out there really defending it, saying that you need these standards. too many states have weak standards, weak public school systems, and unless you set the standards high and unless you

track this stuff, that you're going to continue to have underperforming schools. it's a great fault line inside the republican party. again, one of the most interesting modern twists on this debate about how do you get schools at the state level to start performing better. >> so as you point out, this is a bit of a flip-flop for bobby jindal. arne duncan called him out on this and jindal replied we will not be bullied by the federal government. he was not just a supporter, he was one of the marquee faces of common core early on. >> people don't pay a lot of attention in common core in washington, but at the state level it's been a very contentious issue, both for the left and the right. people find a lot not to like about it. some think it's into lenient, some think it's too tough. what changed is the politics of this. it really has become a litmus test for a lot of the tea party members. if you're for it, you're too darn liberal and if you want to be authentically conservative, you have to be for the repeal of it which we've seen play out in several states.

i think all of them actually run by republican governors. and so bobby jindal sort of aligns himself with the base. we don't know, we'll never know is it just about politics or is he truly opposed to it, but louisiana doesn't have the best school system in the world and now -- >> you're kidding me! >> and now the burden will be on him. if they replace it, they have to replace it with something that exceeds the expectations of common core, which we saw indiana do. >> so the base in iowa doesn't like common core so bobby returns to baton rouge and says no common core. >> it doesn't seem to be about what common core has done in the state of louisiana necessarily. up next, will the conflict in iraq have implications for the oil markets around the globe? steve rattner joins us next to break it all down. yes, kids, he's bringing his charts with him. he's got charts. >> oh, my lord! >> in just a few minutes, actress comedian, the always hilarious ali wentworth joins us. >> she's always hilarious and always outspoken. >> she's trouble. >> keep it right here on

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32 past the hour. business before the bell now with cnbc's sara eisen.

weekly jobless numbers released just moments ago. how do they look? >> they look better. we just went down 6,000 last week from the week before, that is improvement. 312,000 americans filing unemployment claims last week. you want to see that number going down, moving in the right direction. it speaks to the trend of fewer layoffs in this country rand more job openings, while the unemployment rate not exactly where we want to see it, you do want to see those claims numbers moving to the low 300,000 level so that is certainly a good sign. i do want to talk about an alarming trend we've been seeing and you're talking about it with the situation in iraq. higher gas prices. americans are finally starting to see this seep into their bills at the pump. yesterday on average the national price of gasoline, $3.69 a barrel. now that is elevated. and for this time of year especially, it's actually the highest level for that day since back in 2008. what we were expecting to see for june was better prices at the pump. they usually come down into the

summer driving season after memorial day because all the supply has been built up. but because of what's happening in iraq and the threat of higher oil prices, you're actually starting to see those prices climb. i do want to say, though, it's nothing extreme. we're seeing an elevated price of oil. we're not seeing $4 a gallon and that is sort of considered the game changer for the american economy. watch it and if you were expecting to pay lower this summer, that could not be the case with what's going on across the world. >> sara eisen, thank you so much. joining the table now here in new york, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner and journalist and author mark hertsgaard. very good to have you with us. >> steve rattner back by popular demand with these charts. >> what would we do without our numbers and graphs. >> so we heard this morning, steve rattner, that you actually had rebels reaching an oil refinery. how dangerous is the situation? what does all this unrest in the middle east mean for people that

go to the pumps and how much is it going to impact the gas prices? >> sara gave us a good lead-in. it's already impacting the gas prices and it's not just iraq it really started back with ukraine because russia is the second largest oil exporter. but remember as well as the u.s. is doing in producing oil, we still import 70% -- 40% of our oil every day, about 7 million barrels. so we are very much a prisoner of what's going on in world oil prices. so if you look at what's happened over the last few months, you can see that starting back again at roughly the time of the ukraine issue, oil prices have been going up very steadily. they have gone up about $15 a barrel from $94 to $106 a barrel. >> does that continue to go up if the fighting and uncertainty continues? >> here's the issue. the issue is there's not a lot of spare capacity in the world. you look at the next chart and you see iraq produces about 3.3 million barrels a day in comparison to saudi arabia who produces about 12. so it's not the biggest

producer. but the problem is there's no spare capacity, almost no spare capacity in the world. coincidentally, the total amount of spare production capacity in the world is equal to what iraq produces. about 2.7 million barrels of that is in saudi arabia. >> but how is this fighting actually impacting oil prices or the oil fields that we are concerned about that produce those barrels? >> it's not directly affecting it yet because those oil fields are not in the areas where the fighting is going on. it's really more a question of the markets being uncertain and scared about what could happen. and if you look at where iraq's oil is coming from, you'll see what i'm talking about. so the yellow line at the bottom are the fields up in the north in kirkuk, which is what the kurds control. in fact when the kurds just the other day took control of their oil fields, which they're very happy about because it produces revenue for them. the bulk of iraq's oil is down in the south, on basra down in

the south. that's in control of the shiite government at the moment. it's not what they're fighting about right this minute but the world worries something could blow up there. you lose 3.3 million barrels a day and oil prices could go anywhere. in the gulf wars oil prices got as high as $140 a barrel. >> why does the smaurtock marke continue to go up? the one thing that causes the crater is uncertainty. >> our good friend, mayor bloomberg, asked me that question yesterday and it comes up all the time. the market is a wash in liquidity. the fed has pushed down interest rates. people see it going up and are afraid they're going to miss the boat and they pile on and discount all this uncertainty and it will somehow work out. >> all this talk of fossil fuels, mark, make a lot of your readers flinch, especially with your article this month -- >> promises, promises. >> promises, promises, how can barack obama redeem his environmental record. talk about that.

>> yes, this is a piece for haump harper's magazine. i was very fortunate to interview john podesta before he went back to the white house to become mr. obama's top adviser on climate change and mr. podesta spoke in very loyal but unflinchingly honest terms about president obama's record. >> and you talk about environmental failures. specifically what failure is at the top of the list? >> the piece is largely about climate change and how -- you know, here's a president who came to power saying i'm going -- this is going to be -- you remember the night that he won the democratic nomination in 2008. this will be remembered as the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow. and of course meanwhile, as president, he has not been able to do that. and podesta put a lot of the blame for that on opposition from republicans in congress, but he also said, which i thought was very interesting, that a lot of the problem was

with the president's own advisers in the first two terms. people that mr. podesta himself helped to choose. >> which advisers. >> i asked him that. >> did he give you an answer? >> i reminded him -- >> did he give you specifics? >> i said, sir, you were the one. >> any names? >> he said which ones. >> i said rahm emanuel is usually mentioned as the number one nonenthusiast for climate change and his answer was -- and then he said can we go off the record, and we did. >> so what can president obama do when he has democrats who are trying to seek re-election this year in red states who have to be conservative on such issues? >> i don't think they have to be conservative. in fact your party is i think in big trouble on this issue. >> i'm talking about mary landrieu or kay hagan. >> yeah, i understand. but i think that's a mistaken impression that somehow it is

good politics to be cautious about these things. 53% of young republicans, republicans under the age of 35, self identified republicans, call the denial of climate science, quote, crazy, out of touch, ignorant. so the republicans i think have a hispanic problem on climate change. >> i would agree with that myself. >> but the rest of my party doesn't. >> my question has to do with mary landrieu, kay hagan in north carolina, pryor in arkansas. they're not looking at those 53% of republicans that are young, they're looking at a lot of other americans who may not agree with the readers of harper's or with your assessments. and again i'm taking this completely out of my own personal beliefs, because i don't deny science. i kind of like science. >> you're a man of science. >> even though i got ds and fs in science. i'm just talking the pure sheer politics of it, how can barack obama be blamed for

environmental failures when so many people in his own party aren't following along with him? >> i think there's a few people like that. again, if you look at the general american public, 70% of the american public wants action on climate change. and barack obama has begun to speak very clearly since january about this. i think he recognizes that he's got to get out -- that this is going to be the big issue in his legacy. >> we need to go, but we really -- we need to get specific here. what is the one thing that barack obama needs to do in the next two years. >> it's the thing he's finally begun to do, is to realize that the clean air act gives him not just the authority to solve this, but the obligation. the verb in that act is "shall" as in the president must reduce these emissions. that is the bedrock of american environmental law. it's a shame it took him six years to understand that. but he's beginning to move on that now. not fast enough to really bring under control these rising

temperatures. we are already locked into a serious amount of climate damage on this planet. 2012, i was thinking when you were talking mr. rattner about the politics of oil here, 2012 we saw the worst drought in 50 years in this country, we saw the highest temperatures ever. and that had terrible impacts on our food production. we're an agricultural superpower. we cannot survive a planet as a superpower where we are basically broiling our temperatures up to where we can't survive. >> mark hertsgaard, thank you very much. your piece is in the new issue of "harper's" magazine. up next, oh, boy, ally woi n wentwor wentworth. she joins table next. >> and my views on iraq. >> oh, no. (mother vo) when i was pregnant...

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author and actress ali wentworth. she is a spokesman for johnson and johnson and they're promoting an initiative care inspires care, which i want to hear about, but i'm just looking at your one sheet. >> oh, boy, my one sheet. >> ali wentworth, spokesperson, johnson & johnson, author and actress. >> the next one she's got to cross out. >> wife of george stephanopolous. >> clooney, i'm sorry. >> what don't you get? >> i don't know. i don't know -- >> this is a feminist -- oh, stop. that is i am woman, hear me roar kind of thing. >> i know what's happening. >> the numbers are too large to ignore. >> i don't know why. maybe because i'm on a news program and he's a news person.

>> so what? >> i'm also a lingerie model. that doesn't seem to be in the title. >> i'm going to put lingerie model. >> now that she's told me to be offended, i wouldn't have been, but now i am. >> that's not a knock on george specifically. >> no, it's not a knock on george. >> george is constantly burning his bra. so no. >> excellent. >> only after three shots of tequila, though. >> okay, i'm going to let you have this one. >> first of all, tell me about the initiative. care inspires care. >> care inspires care.com, if you will. so i partner with johnson & johnson because we are, as a mom, and you're parents, whether you know it or not, you have some kids. >> no, he's got three girls. >> oh, i know. >> mike and i have 47 kids between us. >> so we've all -- we're breeders basically. we're a group of breeders. >> we've reproduced. >> the thing is it's a very self-involved world we live in, and i have two daughters -- look, we all want to be

kardashians. i would love to be a kardashian -- well, i would love to be one. >> really? >> sure. >> i actually want to be 50 cent. >> okay. >> that's interesting. >> off topic. >> i try to teach my girls to care about the community, care about the environment, just to care so we're not so self-involved. and we do it in little -- i'm on the boards of charities. we go and sort clothes. my kids have lemonade stands for save the polar bears, which by the way in the hamptons, you can charge $50 for a couple lemonades, so the polar bears should be thanking us. but i'm saying it's -- as much as i'm joking around, it's a very important thing for our next generation and generations to come. >> you can set a group example, make it a group effort, share the care and show the results. talk about setting a good example. >> well, look at me. >> exactly. >> no, no. joe, joe. i set examples because i'm on

the board of baby buggy and we recycle clothes -- >> that's just -- >> i love jessica. >> that's not a real charity, is it? >> this is a great charity. and we sort -- my kids come down and we sort shoes. >> it's the physical act of actually doing something. >> i don't want future generations to think charity is writing a check. >> or sliding a bank card. >> when you do stuff with your kids, whenever i do stuff with my kids, you've got to lead them to it and then it's amazing. >> we've taken kids to soup kitchens on christmas. you know, you have to show them what it is to give back. >> you say make it a group effort. what do you mean? >> bring their friends. >> get everybody involved. >> yes. do it with your community, with your school. i mean i've had -- we've brought friends, my girls' friends to sort clothes or to do community

service. you know, they never came back -- no, they did. but, you know, there's fun too. look, we go and do other fun stuff. >> and share the care? >> well, if you have a good story, which i hope you do, joe, you would go to the website and share your stories. other people share their stories. >> you've given me my opening line this weekend. share the care. >> is that your pickup line at a bar? >> an introductory lubricant. >> share the care.com. so -- >> share inspires share. share the care, that's his pickup line. >> and show the results. what's that? >> tell your stories. i'm telling you, you have to agree we live in a self-involved world. >> no, no, i totally agree with you. that's why i'm trying to work through the garbage coming from the other side of the set because i think this is important. it is critically important. >> it is critically important.

>> show the results. so you can go on -- for people that are watching, where do they go. >> careinspirescare.com. share your stories, share how you give back and share stories about how you encourage your children to give sglak that's fine. >> i'd like everyone to clap if you don't mind. i'd like to leave on applause. >> she didn't say anything inappropriate. >> we're going to commercial, right? i can't compete with donny. >> it's always great to see you. lingerie model, actress and author. we'll be right back. thank you daddy for defending our country. thank you for your sacrifice and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote

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our control room is insisting we run this. i love ducks. >> ducks? >> when i see ducks like that running down a road in thailand, i think of my mom and how we had these ducks. they were actually geese. >> did you have that many? >> no, we just had two but she was tired of them making a mess. >> so what did she do to them? >> i found them hanging out out back. >> wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. mika, did you just say that your mother didn't like the ducks and so she -- >> shot their heads off. >> she shot their heads off? >> and hung them upside down in the back. >> why are these ducks doing this?

>> it's duck dynasty. >> your mother murdered ducks with a chain saw? >> can you put a picture of the polar bear again? i think this may be one of the best bump shots in "morning joe" history. the polar bear hugging mika. >> no, i don't like that picture. has mika ever been wrong, anybody? can we ask around the table? >> is that lewis? >> no, that's a polar bear. it went very badly after that picture. >> the high jinx on this show never stops. mentoring tomorrow's innovators. we build it raising roofs, preserving habitats and serving america's veterans. every day, thousands of boeing volunteers help make their communities the best they can be. building something better for all of us. ♪

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come on, do it. do it! >> mika, you have to come over here. come on. come on. >> the headline in "discover" magazine. >> apparently brown bears like -- >> no, no, no. >> oral sex. >> bear sex. >> we're not on delay. >> we're not on delay, joe. >> it's in "discover" magazine. it's totally legitimate. that's scientific truth. >> bears -- >> say good-bye for the last time. >> i had nothing to do with it. chuck todd coming up. chuck, take it away, buddy. new conflict, old rivalries. washington travels back in time as politicians play the iraq blame game. and secretary of state john kerry tells nbc that nothing is off the table. what does nothing mean? follow the leader. it's election day on capitol hill. with just a few hours to go before votes are cast, the