next on "meet the press," president obama's war on terror in the middle east. will anything short of american military action prevent the creation of an al qaeda linked terrorist state stretching from iraq to syria. i'll be joined exclusively by israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu. plus my interview with senator rand paul of kentucky that's already making big news. his surprising assessment of president obama's handling of iraq and a warning benghazi could haunt a hillary clinton presidential run. political mudslinging. the inside story on this week's big gop senate race that made national headlines, a secret

video shot in a nursing home. even sarah palin and quarterback brett favre are taking sides. >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. >> good morning. we want to start with the latest the islamic group iassist, secretary of state in the region with a push for diplomatic solution. our political director chief white house correspondent chuck todd joins me now. he has more on what president obama said about the crisis in an interview that will air tomorrow on this week's ""morning joe."" good morning. >> good morning. secretary kerry is in the region. he's in cairo. we expect him to be in baghdad soon. as we found out in that interview that president obama did with mika brzezinski, he laid out what appears to be his vision of what american foreign policy will look like in the middle east for years to come.

>> i think that one of the things the american people at least understand is that these societies are going through these enormous transformations. what we can do is work with the best impulses there, folks who understand moderation, tolerance, are trying to deliver for their people. we're going to have to deal with some of the worst impulses there, the extremism that isis represents. what we're not going to be able to do is play whack a mole and chase wherever extremists appear, occupy those countries for long periods of time and think somehow we're going to solve those problems. >> at times it doesn't seem like anything has gone right in this region for the administration from benghazi to the civil war in syria, egypt, threat of nuclear war in iran, trying to end the war in afghanistan and three failed middle east peace process attempts. the president's decision to send 300 military advisers to iraq is part of what some have called

his new light footprint strategy. what is it? a counter-terrorism strategy similar to the one u.s. has been implementing in yemen. a strategy that means fewer troops on the ground and more drones in the air. he outlined this strategy at a commencement speech at west point in may. >> we have to develop a strategy that matches this diffuse threat, one that expands our reach, without sending forces that stretch our military too thin or stir up local resentments. >> the increase in stability in the middle east can be traced to iraq war and arab spring, which some critics believe this administration has mismanaged. >> arab spring this administration put in effect by intention or neglect brought chaos through this entire region. >> proving nothing is black and white in the middle east, the president finds himself calling for iran's help in iraq. >> all neighbors have a vital interest ensuring it does not

descend into civil war or become a safe haven for terrorists. >> now, david, of course, on the issue of iran, one of john kerry's goals is to make sure iran doesn't have too much influence in the formation of yet another new government. this has been a tricky balancing act that the administration is trying to have. they know they need iran's help in iraq a little bit but they don't want iran to have much influence. >> chuck todd for us this morning. chuck, thank you so much. you can see the rest of my colleague, mika brzezinski, tomorrow morning on morning joe on msnbc. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thank you for being on "meet the press." >> thank you. good to be with you. >> picking up with chuck todd and hearing the president's comments, his cautious approach in iraq, do you fear that could strengthen iran? >> look, i think it's a complicated situation. there are no easy answers.

what you're seeing in the middle east today, in iraq and in syria, is the stark hatred between radical shiites, in this case led by iran, and radical sunnis led by al qaeda and isis and others. both of these camps are enemies of the united states. when your enemies are fighting each other, don't strengthen either one of them, weaken both. i think by far the worst outcome that could come out of this is that one of these factions, iran, would come out with nuclear weapons capability. that would be a tragic mistake. it would make everything else pale in comparison. i think the ultimate and most important goal in the middle east is to make sure iran does not have nuclear weapons capability. >> to that point -- >> those weapons, unlike mortars and machine guns, can kill thousands and chemical weapons can kill tens of thousands. these weapons, nuclear weapons, could kill millions. that should be prevented at all costs. >> you're well briefed on how

the united states is approaching its negotiations with iran to get it to abandon a nuclear weapons program. are you concerned, based on anything you've seen, that the u.s. is softening its negotiating stance to try to get iran's help in iraq? >> well, i hope they don't come up with a bad deal. i'll tell you what a good deal is. a good deal is actually what was negotiated by the united states and president obama in the case of the chemical weapons in syria. haven't solved the problem in syria between sunnis and shiites but you did remove the bulk of the weapons and all the weapons and stockpiles. you removed them. i think what is being discussed in the case of iran by the international community is that you remove most of the sanctions, and iran gets to keep most of the capabilities, most of the stockpiles, most of the ability to manufacture the means to make nuclear weapons. that's a terrible mistake. i hope it doesn't come to pass, because i think this would change history. it would be a monumental mistake.

in the context of the world at large and the middle east as it is today, this would be a tragic, tragic outcome. >> let me just be clear on what your views are. should the u.s. go forward with airstrikes within iraq to target isis? do you think that strengthens iran, strengthens the shia? >> i think that there are two actions you have to take. one is to take the actions that you deem necessary to counter the isis takeover of iraq. the second is not to allow iran to dominate iraq the way it dominated lebanon and syria. you actually have to work on both sides. as i say, you try to weaken both. there are actions that could be taken. whatever i have to say on specific actions, i'll obviously pass along to u.s. president obama and other administration

and other means, not on "meet the press." >> let me ask you about other matters closer to home. you're in the middle of launching a muscular military campaign on the west bank after three teenagers were abducted. you say there's evidence that it's hamas, including an american teenager, american citizen. president palestinian authority mahmoud abbas, quote, missing settlers are human beings like us. we must look for them and return them to their families. was that a significant step forward, a significant sign of military cooperation between the palestinians and israel in your judgment? >> i think it was good that he said that, and i think it would be tested now by his willingness to stop the incitement against israel and glorify indication of terrorists. this would be a good departure in that direction. second, help us capture kidnappers, hamas kidnapper and breaks the pack he made with the hamas organization that kidnapped these teenagers. i think that would be a good

development, it would be in the right direction. i think you can't have it both ways. you can't talk about peace with israel and be in the unity government with hamas that kidnaps israeli teenagers and calls for israel's destruction. you can have one or the other but not both. i hope president abbas chooses the right thing. >> as peace talks stalled between you and the palestinian authority, there has been new pressure from some religious groups, presbyterians in the united states have just passed a decision voted to divest its holdings in companies that do business with israel, sell products to israel they claim are used in the course of the occupation of palestinians. how troubling is this to you? do you think there will be other protestant denominations that follow suit? >> it's trouble to all people's conscious and morality because it's so disgraceful. you look at what's happening in the middle east, and i think most americans understand this. they see this enormous area

riveted by religious hatred, savagery of unimaginable proportions. then you come to israel and you see the one democracy that upholds basic human rights, guards the rights of all minorities, protects christians. christians are persecuted throughout the middle east. most americans understand israel is a beacon of civilization and moderation. i would suggest to presbyterian organizations fly to the middle east, come and see israel for the embattled democracy that it is, and then take a bus tour. go to libya, go to syria, go to iraq and see the difference. i would give them two pieces of advice. one is make sure it's an armored plated bus. second, don't say that you're christians. >> prime minister netanyahu, as always, we thank you for your views and for joining us this morning. >> thank you. i spoke with republican senator rand paul from kentucky who has been a strong voice against military intervention in iraq.

he refused to criticize president obama's current stance on iraq but he did have some strong words on what benghazi will mean for hillary clinton's political future. >> senator paul, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. glad to be here. >> lets get right to the debate of the day, that is over the future of iraq. last year on this program we were talking about syria. at that time you said there was no clear-cut american interest. do you see a clear-cut american interest in iraq? >> i saw mostly confusion and chaos. i think some of the chaos is created from getting involved in the syrian civil war. you have to realize some of the islamic rebels we've been supporting are actually allies of the group that is now in iraq causing all this trouble. but i see in the syrian civil war, we're sending arms in opposing protections, now they want us allied with the iranian guard. >> before you get to that, isis,

a terror organization billed by many as a clear and present danger to the united states, as a terrorist actor. do you see that? >> i look at it on a personal basis. i ask, do i want to send my son or your son to regain mosul. yes, these are nasty terrorists, we should want to kill them. who should want to stop them more? maybe the people that live there. should not the shiites, maliki, shouldn't they stand up. if they are ripping their uniforms off and fleeing, if they don't think mosul is worth saving, how am i going to convince my son and your son to die for mosul. they are bad terrorist. i'm not sure where the clear-cut american interest is. >> is the clear-cut american interest to protect america if these are terrorists who design to hit america. >> i think if they are, we shouldn't be funding allies and supporting them in syria. they are emboldened because we're supporting them. it could be assad wiped them out months ago. what we do is get in a confusing situation.

i personally believe this group would not be in iraq, not be as powerful, had we not been supplying their allies in the war, as well as our allies are funding these people. they probably have weapons bought with saudi, kuwaiti, qatar money. a lot of radicals have been getting arms and money from these countries. >> do you support the president who says like you do, look, the iraquis should stand up and fight them. he also wants to send 300 advisers to help out. >> i don't question 300 advisers for this reason. i'm not sure exactly where they are going or what they are doing. i do think we have an embassy, 1,000, 2,000 people there, yes, we have to defend our embassy. i'm not going to nitpick the president and say you shouldn't send in a certain amount of advisers. the embassy very important. i've been talking a lot about benghazi and how we didn't protect them. i'm not going to get involved and criticize the president for trying to protect our embassy there. >> former vice president dick cheney has been quite critical

of the president. he wrote, which he said in part, "rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. too many times to count, mr. obama has told us he is ending the wars in iraq and afghanistan as though wishing makes it so." do you think dick cheney is a credible critic of this president? >> i think the same question could be asked of those who supported the iraq war. were they right in their predictions? were there weapons of mass destruction there? that's what the war was sold on. was democracy easily achievable? was the war won in 2005 when many people said it was won. they didn't really, i think, understand the civil war that would break out. what's going on now, i don't blame on president obama. has he really got the solution? maybe there is no solution. i do blame the iraq war on the chaos that is in the middle east. i also blame those who are for the iraq war for emboldening iran. these are the same people now petrified of what iran may become. i understand some of their worry. >> you're not a dick cheney republican when it comes to american power in the middle

east. >> what i would say is the war emboldened iran. it's much more of a war than they were before. before a standoff between sunnis and shiites now throughout the region. >> has president obama made america less safe? >> i don't -- >> less respected in that part of the world. >> i don't think i would put it that way. i disagree with the president on the libyan incursion and with arming the syrian rebels. with ending the war in iraq, i've been trying to end it for years. in fact, you know, one of the important constitutional questions here is what authority does anyone have to go to war in iraq. i've been trying to take that authority away. i introduced a vote in the senate about a year or two ago, and we only got 33, 34 votes to end the war, even though it's over. here is my point, can one generation bind another generation. can the people you elected in 2002, who voted to go to war in 2002, does that bind us forever? are we at war forever?

no geographic or temporal or time limit. i think there has to be a limit. if we go to war -- i don't rule out airstrikes. if we're going to go to war, there needs to be a vote of the american people through their representatives. we need a consensus that, yes, it's worth dying to regain mosul even though shiites and people who live there aren't willing to fight for it. >> you have blamed democrats and republicans over the past year. that would include secretary of state hillary clinton. if she's a candidate for president and if you're a candidate for president, is this the main argument against her candidacy in a campaign by you? >> i think if you want to be commander in chief, the bar you have to cross is will you defend the country and provide adequate security. that's why benghazi isn't a political question for me. for me it's not the talking points. that's never been the most important part of benghazi. it's the six months leading up to benghazi where there were multiple requests for more security and it never came. this was under hillary clinton's watch. she will have to overcome that and we will make her answer for

benghazi. >> let me turn to some domestic matters. on the issue of immigration, big issue in the republican party right now, eric cantor losing in part because of that. a tea party grassroots activism, which is part of the base you excite in the republican party really opposing any move toward what is called amnesty. here is rupert murdoch, executive president of news corps, runs fox news among other properties. he writes this, " we need to give those individuals who are already here after they have passed checks to ensure they are not dangerous criminals a path to citizenship so they can become more productive members of our community." is this call, which is basically what others would call amnesty something the party needs to rethink its opposition to? >> i think everyone needs to be for some form. of immigration reform. the status quo is untenable. i consider myself a bridge to

the conservative community. i'm about as conservative as they come. maybe a little libertarian, too. i think if we do nothing, 11 million more people may be coming illegally. we have to do something. here is the conundrum. i think the conundrum is pointed out by the children dumped on the border right now. there's a humanitarian disaster of 50,000 kids dumped on this side of the border. it's because you have a beacon, forgiveness, and you don't have a secure border. that's why conservatives for immigration reform, i'm for immigration reform but i insist you secure the border first. if you have a beacon of some kind of forgiveness without a secure border, the whole world -- >> is it halfway to citizenship in your book, amnesty? >> that's the whole problem, what is amnesty. i'll give you an example. the platform says no deportation and no amnesty. if you aren't going to deport people you are changing current law. the current law says everybody should go. >> you said the party needs to give up this word amnesty. >> we need to get beyond it.

we need to get beyond status quo because the status quo is not acceptable. i'm for pushing across the country, we need some form of immigration reform. border security first. we should have something that allows people who work in our country, who are here, we will find a place to work and we link it to work. >> and path to citizenship. >> well, the path to citizenship is a longer, more difficult goal. >> you don't rule it out as an end game. >> i don't think any immigration reform will get out of washington that includes a path to citizenship. but i do think there is a path to a secure border and expanded work visa program. >> you are championing another piece of legislation that could be controversial. it focuses an area where you think you can work with democrats. here is something you said last year. "if i told you one out of three african-american males is forbidden by law from voting, you might think i was talking about jim crow 50 years ago. yet today a third are prevented from voting because of the war

on drugs." what do you mean and what do you want to do about it? >> it's the biggest voting rights issue of the day. we've gotten distracted by a lot of other things. we think there may be a million people prevented from voting having a previous felony conviction. i'll give you an example. i have a friend whose brother 30 years ago grew marijuana plants in college. he made a mistake. he probably would tell you now it's a mistake. he still can't vote. every time he goes to get a job, he has to check a box that says he's a convicted felon. if we're the party keeping families together, redemption, second chances, we should give people the right to vote back. the face of the republican party needs to be not about suppressing the vote but enhancing the vote. i have a bill i'll introduce next week, if it comes forward, would allow half a million to a million people get the right to vote back. >> and you have some democratic support on this? >> we have -- yeah, it's going to be a mixture. my bill only does nonviolent and i'm the only one on my bill.

there's another bill, i support the concept, it allows all felons to get the right to vote back after they serve time. there's a little bit of give. there are a lot of us, senator cardin i'm on his side of the concept, maybe not quite there on the bill. we both have bills driving this concept forward. >> some other controversy in the senate, controversy around washington redskins. 50 democratic senators saying nfl should force them to change their name because they believe the redskins name is a slur. do you agree with that? do you support that in the senate? >> i'm not much for government getting involved in the nfl. i don't have a personal or private opinion on what the redskins name should be. i do think for the most part, particularly professional sports has the ability, because they make special contracts, to really force people to do stuff, and they can. '6 there could be something, recent controversy in basketball and all that stuff. there are contracts to talk about behavior. i don't know with the name.

i think sometimes -- for example, i think sometimes we get distracted by things when there are more important things. like on the voting thing, all this discussion about voter id and all that. really what is the most important issue not enough people are talking about, a million people prevented from voting, literally and legally prevented from voting because they have a previous conviction. i think that's a bigger issue than all the other stuff we spend time talking about. >> we're in a big election year. one final question on hillary clinton in a moment. i want to show you something from our poll daunting, for both parties. president in a world of trouble, 41% approval rating. look at the status of democratic versus republican party. the republican party less popular and viewed more negatively than democratic party a lot of these midterm races viewed as a referendum on the incoming president. why is that the case? >> i think washington in general is unpopular, the president and congress. we seem dysfunctional and we are dysfunctional. i'll give you an example. i'm pushing repatriation,

letting money come home from overseas and building roads with it. something that lowers taxes, brings in more tax revenue and we build roads. it's something everybody is for. it's like pulling teeth to get washington to vote on it and pass it. if it came forward and they let us vote in the senate, there's 70 votes in the senate. >> on hillary clinton, you said she would be made to pay for benghazi. how? >> she'll have to explain how she should be commander in chief when she was not responsive to multiple requests for security in the six months leading up. plus, there were a lot of expenditures in the state department under her watch. $650,000 on facebook ads when they didn't have enough money for security. 5 million on crystal glassware that summer. there's a lot of expenditures to prove but wouldn't approve 16 person team or airplane to get around the country. in the last 24 hours, a plane was very important and it wasn't available. these are serious questions beyond talking points that occurred under her watch. >> benghazi disqualifying for her? >> i think so.

i don't think the american people -- american people want a commander in chief that will send reinforcements, that will defend the country and provide adequate security. i think in a moment of need, a long moment, a six-month moment, she wasn't there. >> senator rand paul, thank you for your view. >> thank you. we covered a lot of ground, we want to come back to the crisis in iraq. i'm joined by republican congressman michael mccaul, chair of the homeland security community and michelle flournoy who served as secretary of defense in the obama administration between 2009 and 2012. first i want to get the latest on the extremist group isis and how, in just a short time, they have come to be perhaps the biggest terror threat to face the united states. our chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell has more. >> reporter: iraq is being pushed to the breaking point by isis. the radical insurgents fighting in syria and now surging through iraq. so extreme even al qaeda rejected isis for its murderous tactics.

it is brutal, well organized, some 10,000 sunni militants operating more like an army than ragtag insurgents, looting banks, seizing royalties and oil executing anyone that gets in their way. >> it poses a great danger potentially to europe and ultimately the united states. >> reporter: their goal, form a hard line islamic state from syria to iraq and beyond. their progress so far nothing short of terrifying. >> what they have done in iraq, what they have done in syria and what they have looked to do in the west means they are certainly the best funded, one of the most organized and one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations in the world today. >> isis fundraising looked more like a corporation than a terror group. just look at their last annual report. glossy, highly produced, measuring performance by listing nearly 8,000 attacks in iraq, 1,000 assassinations, 4,000

roadside bombs, an elaborate pitch to raise money from foreign backers, principally in saudi arabia, qatar and kuwait. >> it absolutely has capacity and wherewithal to maximize presence in social media using techniques many have said would be the envy of corporations. >> isis also raises tens of million of dollars through smuggling, kidnapping, and extortion for ransom. most alarming this just released video which nbc news independently confirmed, a sophisticated propaganda offensive, even using english to attract western recruits, including americans that could travel more easily to europe and the u.s. potentially one of the most significant terror threats now facing the homeland. for "meet the press," andrea mitchell, nbc news. >> andrea, thank you. chairman mccaul, an awful ideology, rich well resourced hardened fighters, worse in the estimation of most experts than al qaeda was before the 9/11 attack.

>> they are so extreme that al qaeda, core al qaeda al zawahiri denounced them for their tactics. i would say the vacuum, the training ground, the state they are creating in syria and iraq is far surpassing what we saw before 9/11 in afghanistan and pakistan. >> spell that out. what do you fear about their movement and their ability and desire? what are their ultimate desires with regard to the united states? >> i think right now they are focused on establishing islamic state in the region. i think after that is the the external operations against the west and the united states. it is the number one threat to the homeland, secretary of homeland security agrees with me in that assessment. why is that? you're having foreign fighters pour all over the world into this region with legal travel documents, 100 americans, many europeans, people from australia. this is a major threat to not only the region and iraq but also to the security of the american people on american soil.

>> so michelle flournoy, take me through, waging on a group worse than al qaeda. >> i think the president's initial steps absolutely on target, deploying additional intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance. >> that 300. >> actually, overhead as, trying to get more intelligence on the situation, deploying almost 300 special operations forces to get on the ground, assess the situation, work with more capable iraqi counter-terrorism units, start developing targeting packages vis-a-vis iss. he's moved to strike in the region to give military options should the conditions -- >> when and how do you pull the trigger and what are you careful about? >> well, the important thing is that the ultimate solution here

is a political one that brings all the parties back to the table and particularly brings the alienated sunni leadership and population back to the table. we cannot act as if we're just the air force for radical shia elements on the ground. so that political process has to happen. militarily we have an interest stopping isis. that means developing discreet isis targets. >> that don't hit civilians, that don't inflame the situation. is it important, chairman, as i've talked to figures in the region, other government, they say, look, you can't just hit isis in iraq but you have to hit them in syria, too, or else it looks like you're taking sides in the united states. >> i agree with michelle's analysis. number one -- two goals here. two strategies, dual strategies. one, targeted airstrikes against isis without collateral damage to sunnis. secretary kerry going to develop a regional strategy. that's very important. without that foundation, anything we do militarily will fail. i believe if we can take out

these isis elements that exist, wherever they exist, that that not only stabilizes the region but then takes away and eliminates the threat to the homeland. >> do you agree, then, with how the president is forcing it so far. >> way back having residual forces, maliki mismanaged the way he dealt with sunnis, didn't include them in the political process. i think it's time for maliki to go and have a new minister in iraq we can work with. the president needs to be more heavily engaged in the process to find a diplomatic solution. that's what i would urge the white house and talk to them, i think they are on the right track now with this dual strategy. >> do we see yemen model, cooperation on the ground, potentially new government if maliki goes and u.s. avoiding mission creep in the business of targeting key terrorist groups through drone strikes.

>> i think the name of the game militarily will be empowering a legitimate military, indigenous military on the ground. >> they don't want to fight if they think they are helping maliki. >> the precursor is political reconciliation of government that truly represents all the parties. >> you don't see military action soon. seems to me the people i'm talking to, the president doesn't want to rush in and try to decapitate isis. if he strengthens maliki, if maliki is part of the problem. >> we want to put pressure on and if possible decapitate isis if we have the opportunity. we can't do that without an all out effort to bring parties going forward and i think that's what the administration is doing. >> i think we need to stop the bleeding. when i talked to general allen, petraeus, the great special envoy to the region, got to stop the bleeding. that's the way you stop the

bleeding, targeted strikes against isis. at the same time diplomatic political solution. >> just a few seconds left. another area you're looking at is what's happening at the border. we've had this massive influx of unaccompanied minors illegally crossing the mexican border, a huge issue for the administration. do you blame the administration for confusion about the policy people thinking they would get an entry permit. >> listen, i have a crisis in my own state. we have what's nothing less than refugee camps at lackland air force base. i believe failed border security strategy has resulted in this. i think the message is if you come to the u.s., you can stay. that's encouraged this. i talked to secretary about this, have a hearing on tuesday about this. we have to not only secure the border but work with mexicans to get southern mexican border secure. >> more on this to come, of course. senator mccaul and michelle flournoy, thanks for being here.

>> i don't believe you. this is incredible. >> coming up, that outburst from former presidential candidate paul ryan. what was he so angry about? political roundtable up next to discuss an obama administration controversy that's not going away. uss an oba >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by boeing where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. build something better inspires us every day. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo!

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we are back. political roundtable here to discuss iraq and politics. e.j. dionne, david brooks, katty kay, anchor of bbc, world news america. for the first time on the program i'd like to welcome erika harold, an attorney, congressional candidate for illinois and also miss america in 2003. >> thank you for having me. >> thanks for being here. david brook, the cover of "time" magazine, "the end of iraq." not as we know it but maybe just the end. a lot to digest. what is the president going to do? >> there's two issues, first the discreet isis issue. we can't allow it. that's got to be a strategy. so far, i think there's a

bipartisan agreement on what needs to happen. we heard it today. the only disagreement is how aggressive to be. political side to get maliki out and unified government, then has to be a military piece. so i think everyone sort of agrees on that. the question is how hard are you going to push? how quickly are you going to military. >> quickly, as the president is thinking about this, also the debate over iraq, e.j., you wrote about it, people talking about it. the president when he spoke about it was very clearly answering those former bush figures like vice president cheney when he said the following during a press conference thursday. >> recent days reminded us of the deep scars left by america's war in iraq. what's clear from the last decade is the need for the united states to ask hard questions before we take action abroad. particularly military action. >> that's a not so veiled jab at his critics. >> that's right. i think that you've had this debate over who lost iraq, which

is not a great question to ask in the first place. you have what i saw as a pretty outrageous dick cheney piece in the "wall street journal" that almost accused the president of being a traitor. determined to leave office ensuring he's taken america down a notch. i think what you see, american policy that dare not speak its name. we don't like to say we're realists. his position, we're going to intervene when our vital interests are at stake. isis is a dangerous organization. as one official said they make other extremist groups look like the jv. we're worried this is a group that could threaten us. we also know maliki has alienated sunni so much some of the tribes, some of the sunni tribes that really don't like isis, really don't like what they want to do, have sided with them to knock maliki. that's why a political solution is so important.

>> the public is behind getting involved in iraq whatsoever but the concept of a war on terrorism, which is not how president obama would describe it, but that is what he's facing it with isis like it or not. >> there is this intention where there's not political will to send combat troops back in, but i don't think americans feel comfortable or proud of the notion we would do nothing. the president's challenge finding a way of crafting a solution that does not involve sending troops back in but gives us a sense we're doing something. >> interesting, katty. look at our polling this week on his leadership moment here and abroad for president obama, this leaps out at me. where 54% of those polled don't believe that the president can lead and get the job done anymore. >> particularly if you look at the foreign policy polling numbers where he's doing very badly. i think to some extent that is a reflection of the fact foreign policy has been dominating the news at all at a time, as erika suggests, americans aren't interested in it. americans don't want to talk about iraq, don't want to talk

about isis. most americans quite understandably are asking themselves, what has this got to do with me. why not let them fight over this. if we get involved in airstrikes, where are we in three months' time? where are we in eight months' time? are we going to stay there to see a political process go through? that's going to take a heck of a lot more time than launching a few airstrikes. that's the reflection of the american public and you'll see that in poll numbers. >> i just referred to -- >> head of the irs over lost drives and lost e-mails with regard to targeting tea party groups. this is a story that doesn't go away for president obama. no direct evidence of wrongdoing. this is not great confidence and management when you can't find missing e-mails. >> i think americans have a real sense of cynicism because they feel like there's a set of rules for the average citizen and then a set of rules for powerful and politically connected. i think a lot of people know if they were being audited by the irs and they said, i simply lost all the documentation --

>> how would that go. >> i think they would not find a very sympathetic ear. >> the problem with the irs story. the irs was trying to do what needs to be done, which is there is an abuse of the 501 c 4 status. you should not have all these political groups getting that status. that's what they were trying to fix. then all kinds of stories how were they targeting, turned out they weren't as partisan in their targeting. i actually believe in the government it is quite possible incompetence rather than conspiracy led to this. but put yourself on the other side. if this happened in a different administration, i can imagine what democrats would say. it's very inconvenient incompetence if it's incompetence. >> the competence issue is a problem for the white house. it's rubbing off on them. in your polls president obama is less competent than president bush after katrina. that's a stunning number for the white house. >> incompetent conspiracies. >> every week we're now going to be showing you surveys we have,

some new polling we're doing each week in coordination with "wall street journal" and annenberg poll. today's numbers are interesting, might serve as a warning sign for potential campaigns of 2016 jeb bush and hillary clinton. we'll look at them there 2016 jeb push as president, 48% past policies, 30% vision. similar as we look to the next set of numbers having to do with hillary clinton. 49% represents a return to past policies. 42%, new ideas and vision. what's old is new again or maybe not. >> i think these two campaigns are in much more worse shape, fraught shape than people think. like two stately ocean liners. nobody wants to go back. the country has moved on from where we were in the '90s, the parties have certainly moved on from where we were in the '90s. the bush clinton messages i think will be regarded as stale and will be challenged. >> how about the fact rand paul says benghazi is disqualifying for hillary clinton.

e.j.? >> i'm not the least bit surprised he tried to move off iraq and hit benghazi and hillary clinton. there's something interesting about those numbers. i think if she runs hillary clinton is going to be the democratic nominee, and the signs are she's going to run. there's a 12-point gap on who brings new ideas in hillary clinton's favor, she runs about eight points ahead of the most recent poll i've seen, ahead of jeb bush. i think what that says, americans may well not be wild about going back. if they are going back, they would rather go back to the '90s than the 2000s. in the competition of old and old, hillary clinton -- >> very inspiring dynamic. >> can i ask a question about immigration, erika, what's interesting to me about rand paul, here he is, a tea party candidate, who excites that populous base you were just talking about.

he says republicans have to stop talking about amnesty. he's not ready for a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here. this issue is dividing the right. it continues to. >> it continues to. i don't think there's consensus about what we should do. i think he was right. there's not consensus what that word means. does anything short of deportation mean amnesty? i think as people are seeing the crisis of children brought across the border, people understand we have to find a practical solution. it can't be bogged down talking about what these words mean, real consequences. >> president obama's policies, executive orders allowing an easier way for children of illegal immigrants to get in could backfire in a way. certainly not going to help a cause for broader immigration reform. >> that's the argument of those who say the message is getting through to young people in mexico and el salvador. they are hearing there's a potential for amnesty if they make it across the border, which

is why you're seeing a flood of people. you have rand paul, rupert murdoch weighing in on immigration debate, which will be interesting to watch fox news traditionally opposed to immigration form, a change on media outlets. >> you take immigration, you take environment, you take some other issues as well where the tea party is really out of step in our polling with the rest of the republican party, to say nothing of the broader public. how would the candidate navigate that primary? >> people are scared of them. i do think they are going to be loathe to challenge that especially in primary campaigns. i think the republican party has a monumental problem until the establishment can rally, until you can get a blue state republican party, different centers of power with equal fervor. >> the problem for the establishment is they need to challenge the tea party and they clearly have strong support within the republican ranks among nontea party but scared to do a frontal challenge and say lets have this fight. >> let me take a break. more from the roundtable. in just a couple of minutes.

coming up neck, dirty tricks in the south. meeting america series takes us to one of the most heated elections in the country where even sarah palin and brett favre are taking sides. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by the morgan stanley institute for sustainable investing. so i can reach ally bank 24/7 but there are no branches? 24/7 i'm sorry- i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? you feel that in your muscles? yeah...i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches lets us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. experience a new way to bank where no branches = great rates. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

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here now are some of this week's images to remember. ♪ ♪ >> following last week's huge upset of house majority leader eric cantor, the tea party has another target, mississippi senator thad cochran, facing a primary runoff against challenger chris mcdaniel on tuesday. our kevin tibbles went to olive branch, mississippi to check out one of the most hotly contested races of the year in today's "meeting america."

♪ well since my baby left me >> reporter: in the state that gave the world elvis presley, there is, some say, a battle under way that's shaking the republican establishment here to its very core. >> good old boy network. my granddaddy told me about it when i was five years old. it needs to implode. >> olive branch, mississippi, the run up to this tuesday's runoff has become a noisy and raucous affair with tea party challenger chris mcdaniel winning many over with anti-big government spending message. it put thad cochran, second longest serving republican in the political battle of his life. >> people of my age call him thad. >> sells guitars and holds a weekly hoot nanny. the owner likens cochran to an old friend. >> i feel like he's done a marvelous job working for the

people of mississippi. he's brought industry in. he brought money to the state. >> bringing federal dollars to mississippi for everything from roads and water to public safety seems to have become a liability even in one of the poorest states of the nation. inside the old town bakery, the treats, much like the political waters here, have mcdaniels biting back. >> he wants to pus the us back in the a as far as united states of america goes. >> lisa callahan says it's time for change and supports mcdaniel, even if it means mississippi refusing some of the cake it's enjoyed in the past. >> it does take money to get big things done. i think that we should have more of a say so of what we want it spent on. >> glory mcneese volunteers for mcdaniel. >> walk the streets as i'm doing now, pushing his information cards, placing signs, anything that it takes to get him in. i think it's time to clean house. >> this vote brought out the big

guns and bare knuckles. home grown hero brett favre has record add television ad in support of thad cochran. former alaska governor sarah palin has campaigned for mcdaniel. when a mcdaniel supporter snuck a photo of his sick wife and posted it, some say it's gone too far. >> you don't go to a nursing home and involve somebody that's sick. that's terrible. >> reporter: despite all the celebrity attention, michael says he's undecided. he'll still love mississippi and the king no matter who republicans nominate. for "meet the press," kevin tibbles. >> thank you, kevin and david brook. this is a mississippi story, a story with legs in the political world. >> energy on the mcdaniel side it seems. that's part of the populist, anti-government move in the republican party. >> i hate to turn away from politics but the nation is going

to have its attention on big world cup game on united states against portugal. can they make it to round 16? they have to win today to do it. what do you say? >> they will do it. i predict 2-0. >> 2-0. >> who thought england and spain would be out and we'd still be in? winning creates fans. i think it's amazing what's happened. >> the dupont circle where they will have the big screens up. >> going to lose, soccer is soccer. >> very british about it. >> first time soccer is taking off in a way here that it hasn't before and that's my prediction. thank you all very much. you can continue our conversation about the big question all week long about soccer and about some of the issues with regard to iraq at "meet the press." next week a special "meet the press," exclusive interview and

town hall with bill clinton, president bill clinton about the future of the economy. that's all for us today. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." the united states does not engage in picking, advocating for any series of individuals to assume leadership of iraq. that is up to the iraqi people. >> new developments this hour in iraq as secretary of state john kerry arrives in the middle east for egypt's newly elected president. the latest from andrea mitchell who is traveling with secretary kerry. >> resolution to the unilateral

first strike against iraq. such an action could destabilize and come back to haunt us all. >> that was congresswoman barbara lee back in 2002 voicing her opposition to military action in iraq. in a few minutes we'll get her take on what the u.s. needs to do now. also, border turbulence will unravel for the border agents in texas. hundreds of migrants being put on planes but where are they going? also an american icon going electric. harley davidson motorcycles, known for the roars, going green and a little quiet. that's today's big idea. good afternoon, i'm t.j. holmes in today for mr. craig melvin. developing this hour, secretary of state john kerry in the middle east in an attempt to rally arab support on the iraq crisis. secretary's first stop cairo where he met with egypt's new president and high ranking officials. at a news conference secretary

kerry addressed the threat posed by rapidly advancing militants in iraq. >> ideology of violence and repression is a threat not only to iraq but the entire region. this is a critical moment. we're together, urge iraq's leaders to rise above sectarian motivations. >> nbc news chief foreign affairs andrea mitchell traveling with secretary kerry, lets take a listen. >> secretary kerry is the highest ranking american official to be in egypt since the election of egypt's new leader al sisi. u.s. concerned about arrests of political dissidents, mass trials and death sentences and they are raising this issue today. at the same time they are urging egypt help u.s. press iraq to be more inconclusive. that's the more urgent crisis.

they are hoping egyptian and other leaders can press maliki government to press kurds and do it quickly. privately officials don't believe that will happen as long as maliki is in charge. back to you. >> andrea mitchell traveling with secretary of state kerry. joining me now congresswoman barbara lee. you heard a moment ago she's been a vocal opponent of the iraq war. thank you so much. lets start with something new we heard this morning with former vice president dick cheney talking about president obama's approach to the region. lets take a listen and i'll bring you in. >> i think he's dead wrong in terms of the course he's taking this nation and i think we're in for big trouble in the years ahead because of his refusal to recognize reality and because of his continual emphasis on getting u.s. basically from with drawing from that part of the world.

>> you wanted to defund. you wanted to make sure there was no funding for further military action. do you think the president is dead wrong as well in considering military options in iraq? >> i have to say first of all, dick cheney and president bush, they were dead wrong. they misled the american public in 2002. they told us there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq. there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq. that opened pandora's box and now we see regional stability, conflicts that are sectarian, historical. it's really a shim and disgrace. former vice president continues to try to mislead the public with his proposals and his condemnation, really, of president obama's strategy. the president is doing absolutely the right thing. we have to have regional engagement, regional cooperation. there's no military solution in iraq. the iraquis must lead a

political solution in this entire sectarian strike. that's the only way it's going to be dealt with, and that's the only way we're going to see some regional stability. >> i think a lot of people or most people would agree with you, yes, that had to be a political solution here. you're trying to make sure there's no funding in iraq. my question is about the military option the president is leaving on the table. you want to make sure he comes and gets congressional approval or do you want no military intervention in any way, shape, or form in iraq. he's already said no boots on the ground. as far as military advisers skfrs the 300 advisers on the ground right now? >> this week we debated the defense proposings bill. i'm a member of the appropriations committee and i had several amendments that basically said the president, first of all, we would not commit u.s. tax dollars to boots on the ground to combat troops in iraq.

secondly, this authorization has been on the books, mind you, for 12 years. it's now time to update it. the president desires and believes that military actions should take place. it's absolutely essential he come to congress for a debate so that the american public can weigh in on this. 72, 73% of the american people say, no, they are war weary. we have to encourage the president to come to congress if, in fact, he decides to take military action. >> you say encourage him to come to congress. i want to make sure we're completely on the same page here. not just come for counsel. you think he needs your approval or you would want him to get congressional approval before taking such action. >> absolutely. the congress has constitutional responsibility tonight gauge in. we've really advocated it for the last 12, 13 years. we need a full debate. if the president uses force, he needs to come forward with a new authorization. we need to understand and hear

facts from the president and vote on an authorization. consulting with congress is one thing. this authorization which i'm trying to repeal, has been on the books for 12 years. it needs to be, as i said earlier, it needs to be updated, it needs to be debated. congress can decide what type of action to move forward. we need to exercise that constitutional responsibility. the president as commander in chief has every single option on the table. as always, if there's an eminent threat or if he thinks the united states is in daerng. it's up to members of congress to exercise constitutional responsibility and do the right thing. >> you kind of alluded to this, i wanted to point out something you said saying we must recognize no military solution in iraq, any lasting solution must be political and take into account all the iraquis. bombs will only inflame the situation by injuring civilians and creating new enemies for the u.s. what can we do to help iraq

at this point. the government doesn't seem to have the ability right now, centralized government doesn't seem to have the ability. a lot of people argue they are the government of maliki, responsible for getting us to this point. what should the u.s. be doing? what can the government do to rein in that. >> secretary and president are right on targ. they are insisting the iraquis come together and decide their future. we have to encourage that. we must support that we need to make sure that the iraquis understand we want to see the end of sectarian violence but also religious freedoms, respect for human rights, respect for women, respect for children. there are many issues that need to be on the table but the iraquis and leadership in iraq must pull together all of the ethnic groups, all of the factions and all of the people who have been shut out so far in the whole government structure.

so we need to encourage that. we need to encourage democratic reforms. and in fact, i think the president is doing the right thing. believe you me, inserting ourselves into a military conflict that's sectarian, that would put our young men and women in harm's way, that would put boots on the ground, combat operations in play, it's just wrong. it won't work. we saw what happened when dick cheney and president bush authorized shock and awe, if you remember that. >> of course. >> we lost so many brave young men and women, who did everything we asked them to do, we wasted $25 billion just on the security forces in iraq. american tax dollars need to be spent prudently and we need to encourage this settlement. >> congressman, always good to talk to you. thanks as always. enjoy the rest of your sunday. >> my pleasure. >> up next, implications, how

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the increasing violence in iraq and the extent of how the u.s. could become involved is dominating political talk in washington. lets turn to brain trust, how about msnbc contributor and columnist for grio, "washington post" correspondent and former bush adviser and msnbc contributor as well. good to see you guys as always. robin, lets start with you. lets listen to democrats get behind the president on this thing. this was california democrat

dianne feinstein, senator feinstein. take a listen. >> i think the president is doing the right thing. he's being a bit circumspect, thoughtful. we're building our isr assets so that some pinpointed action can be taken. >> isr, intelligence, reconnaissance what she's referring to. the president is doing this now. that sounds like an endorsement we're hearing from democrats. we heard some criticism earlier, if you will. at least not completely on board. what do you make of what we're seeing this morning. >> i think the president unfortunately does not have a lot of good options when it comes to iraq. you have the maliki government there oppressing sunni, shiite population there. you have the government quite frankly did not do what it was supposed to do in terms of arming its own soldiers and making sure terrorism didn't come back. the president, it's a very, very thin needle, if you will, that the president is trying to

thread here" i applaud him for being thoughtful, looking at all angles but we must do something. pulling out of iraq at 100% is not an option. that's not something we want to hear but we've made so many sacrifices and significant gains over the years just for all of it to collapse. >> just to his point, lets listen to the president on thursday. >> american forces will not be returning to combat in iraq, but we will help iraquis as they take the fight to terrorists who threaten iraqi people, threaten the region and american interests as well. >> go to robert's point there, maybe not something the american people want to hear that we can't just completely up and get out of iraq completely. so the president, is this a key point he has to make sure he makes to the americans that there will not be boots on the ground. >> i think whatever we do in iraq, whether it's a strong diplomatic or political solution

or whether it means military axes got to make the case to the american people. iraq wasn't our ally. we invade a sovereign nation based on a lie and we broke that country. we set them back in terms of their own sectarian issues probably over a century, now that country is rebuilding itself. it has failed to unify. whatever we request do, we have a moral obligation to support them in that effort. but at the end of the day, iraq may not emerge as an intact nation. it may emerge as a fractured nation based on those sectarian lines. so whatever that political solution is, we have a moral obligation to back them up. >> let me bring you in now. we expect some predictable republican opposition but some back and forth this morning between senator rand paul and former vice president dick cheney doing the sunday rounds. a bit of a difference of opinion on iraq. listen. >> who should want to stop them more? maybe the people who live there. should not the shiites, the

maliki government, should they not stand up? i know they are bad terrorists. yes, we should prevent them from exporting terror but i'm not so sure where the clear-cut american interest is. >> rand paul with all due respect is basically an isolationist. he doesn't believe we ought to be involved in that part of the world. i think it's absolutely essential. >> what do you make of that particular back and forth. is that indicative of the opinions of not just the right but how strong the feelings are in this country about u.s. and iraq. >> shows the republican party has a difference of opinion on this. it's not an easy question to answer. if you take a step back, what both of those clips show and what president obama who gave an interview to another network today, how much of this is a direct threat to the united states. there's a lot of intelligence that says in the future, midterm or long-term future, this could develop into an area, if it becomes lawless, border less area between iraq, that could be a training ground and safe haven

to attack united states. people like rand paul saying why we going to send more american, if not troops on the ground american claims to the region when there's no direct threats. people like dick cheney and bush administration will say, no, need to get on top, regain control, help iraq regain control of its own country to make sure we don't have the future threat. obviously republicans are dealing with it among themselves. not an easy question for the president. >> washington, at least political establishment rocked pretty good past week by house majority leader eric cantor's primary loss. two weeks ago, highlights incumbent vulnerability as two long-term members of congress find themselves in a battle to keep their job. first talk about mississippi republican thad cochran in office since '98, new york congressman charlie rangel, served in the house since 1971.

is this an incumbent issue right now? should every incumbent be worried? >> i think they ought to be. i think if you look at opinion polls around this congress and what we seem to be getting or not getting from them, they are polling at an all teem low. people aren't satisfied with the job they are doing. it used to be it meant more money, volunteers, boots on the ground in terms of turning out your vote. that's no longer true. you're seeing strong challengers come up. we call it primary people during this election season. i think we'll see more of it. i don't think it ends here. i think we'll see it this fall. i think we'll see it 2016 and every year after that i think incumbents need to get in touch with constituents and serf them rather than serving their own interest. >> senator cochran came in second in june 10th republican primary, came in second to a tea

party challenger, chris mcdaniel. difference of 1400 votes. each party got 50%. we have to have the runoff scheduled tuesday. cochran has been courting black voters of mississippi. he took out in jackson, mississippi newspaper predominantly african-american readership. he took out an ad and encourages readers to get out and vote for him, acus, food assistance programs. how is this going to play out for him in mississippi with african-american voters. >> what's really interesting, t.j., as you know, mississippi primary -- it's going to be an open primary. democrats can vote for senator cochran because of the runoff. a very prominent african-american pastor, democrat, came out and supported senator comoran and sachran and

been at our side, stuck up regardless of party affiliation. senator cochran has a good chance of not getting the majority of african-american voters but getting a significant number of african-american voters. the reason why is because senator cochran is not an id h d ideologue. he's not a bible thumper or war hawk, he's really a thoughtful conservative. a lot of people in mississippi understand that and recognize. i think he's going to be okay with the black vote come tuesday. >> last thing, is charlie rangel going for the 23rd term. i think his polls show him a double digit lead. >> people show him leading. a tough race. some dynamics for him in new york changing demographics and redistrict made that jurisdiction he's running in. african-american majority district, majority latino district. he's reaching out very hard.

our paper just had a story about his annual birthday bash which has often filled with glitzy stars. instead he had local leaders from the dominican community really reaching out. he's done a lot of legwork. polls show him in charge. he hasn't gotten norms from people like al sharpton who in the past has been there for him. times are changing. it's going to be tough. >> he picked up from governor cuomo. good to see you all as always. >> happy sunday. >> twenty minutes past the hour now. new fallout from v.a. hospital scandal. headlines coming your way first. in case you missed it as well. lu lu lucy li became the youngel player. take a look at this prodigy. >> i just want to go out there and have fun.

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as we get close to the bottom of the hour, a look at the headlines. tension, three israeli teenagers abducted ten days ago in the west bank. they launch add crackdown accusing hamas of being behind the abductions. earlier this week president of the authority abbas called for the missing teens to be returned to their families. this morning on "meet the press," israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu wasn't moved. >> i don't think you can have it both ways. talk about peace with israel and be with hamas who kidnaps teenagers and calls for israelis destruction. can you have one or the other,

not both. i hope president abbas chooses the right thing. >> new information involving hospital scandal at the department of veteran affairs. now reports administrators knew two years ago employees at southwestern clinics were manipulating data on doctor's appointments. this according to a 2012 audit obtained by arizona republic through freedom of information request. v.a.'s health care network found its facilities in three states, arizona, new mexico, texas, all violated department policy by falsifying patient wait times. a practice, according to the audit, allowed employees to increase bonus pay. also, a florida couple happy to be back on dry land this evening after treading water for 14 hours off the florida keys. the couple was stranded at sea after they fell off their boat, which was in gear. that pulled away from them. you see how this worked out. two off duty officers were on a

fishing trip seven miles offshore when they noticed a man in the water waving his shirt. despite a mild case of hypothermia, jellyfish stings they are expected to be okay. rock star, sting, he's apparently teaching his kids a lesson in hard work. in an interview with the daily mail sting says his six children should not, should not expect to inherit his fortune, which is estimated to be about $300 million. he says he wants them to earn their own money the old-fashioned way. give me a break, dad. he added, there won't be much to inherit anyway, because he plans on spending it. all right. we're coming up on the bottom of the hour here now. get more into this crisis on the border, government's plan to ease the load of agents working with thousands of undocumented immigrants. also, an american icon going green. say it ain't show -- so.

harley davidson's plans for an electric motorcycle. that is today's big idea. [male vo] inside this bag is 150 years

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u.s. border patrol agents preparing to fly hundreds of undocumented immigrants caught on the border from south texas to california for processing. that's according to "associated press." two flights will take off tomorrow with 140 passengers each. one headed to san diego, the other headed to el centro, california. white house correspondent kristen welker joins me from washington. hello to you. once again, what is the plan? is this the start of a new effort? >> it could be. here is the very latest we know, t.j. u.s. border control expected to fly hundreds of migrants south texas to california for processing as you say, according to "associated press." the move is part of the latest response to the surge of americans entering texas rio grande valley illegally. we've been reporting for the the past several weeks. the border patrol arrested

174,000 people since october, t.j. officials tell ap on monday two flights carrying more than 100 passengers each will head to san diego and el centro. that's an attempt to ease the workload at the busy texas crossings. the passengers will be mostly families with young children. these are not going to be unaccompanied minors. additional flights are going to continue, we're told, every three days. immigrations enforcement will decide whether to keep people in custody or release them while in deportation proceedings. administration officials said consistently surge in border crossings due to an uptick in violence and poverty. oppose friday they acknowledged there were rumors reaching central america u.s. border authorities offering perms to parents traveling here with young children. the add manage is hoping by increasing the number of migrants who are detained, they will dissuade others from trying to enter the country illegally. tcm, one more point on friday vice president biden traveled to

guatemala to try to convey that message to leaders there. tcm. >> when he met with leaders, guatemala, honduras, el salva r salvador, is there hopes the talks they had with them will help stop this tide. >> well are the administration is cautiously hopeful, t.j. they hope this is going to be a long process. there's obviously a lot of misinformation in that region. in addition to president biden, there are other efforts on the ground to try to get the information to the people that coming here, crossing the border is not a way to stay here. increasing problem for the administration. cautiously hopeful something can be done to slow the uptick they are seeing. they are also aware it's going to be a slightly long process. >> kristen welker at the white house, thank you as always. >> thank you. >> across town in d.c. first congressional analysis on gun

violence set to be reeled later this week. it will offer legislative, policy, community decisions what some lawmakers say is the most dangerous problem. that's evident last night. at least three people killed, others hurt in shootings around chicago. also police in michigan looking into a shooting at t.g.i. friday. a 26-year-old man died when he was shot celebrating his wife's birthday in lexington, kentucky. the wife still in the hospital. with me now author of the report coming out democratic congresswoman robin kelly of illinois. thank you, as always, for being here. what can we expect, the report on wednesday. what will be the headline. give us a preview of what to expect on wednesday. >> sure. thank you so much for having me. this report is a way to keep the conversation going, keep the conversation alive to make sure voices are heard in regard to gun reform and gun safety. you'll hear from a lot of

different stakeholders, myself, other congress folk, and also people plik moms demand action, also from the urban league, naacp, just a myriad of people, of mayors that have concern about this topic. >> again, this is a first. we haven't seen report like this from congress before. since this is a first, will it be something new that throws us off? we hear the debate in public back and forth. you have folks on one side of the gun issue, folks on the other side about how we legislate, how we do something about it. we hear something we haven't heard before that will then kind of spur this conversation. >> some things will be something you've heard before, other things will stimulate conversation. myself, i learned new things by writing this report and from the stakeholders, things they have written and researched. >> like what? >> i didn't realize like what

the brady bill, it stopped $2.1 million in gun sales because it prevented, you know, felons, people with domestic violence records from buying guns with commercial gun shops or people that sell guns. so things like that, about suicides. more white men kill themselves. homicides between 15 and 34. that was news, african-american men. just different statistics. also what different places are doing to try to combat this issue. >> something else. this was from the supreme court. we just saw this on monday. upheld federal ban on straw purchases. people hear that term often. that means you can't buy a firemen essentially and just hand it off to somebody else. you can't buy a gun for somebody else to put it in very simple terms. 5-4 ruling. lets listen to justice scalia at oral arguments for a second and

then i'll bring you back in. >> the notion that the gun would somehow get into the hands of somebody who wasn't registered, buy it themselves, that's going to happen anyway. >> it's going to happen anyway. it was a 5-4 decision. are these the types of laws and specifically the straw purchase lou law, is this the kind of thing that does make a huge difference. so many on the other side would argue, so many mass shootings we see, a lot of these guns were purchased legally and obtained by someone who lived in the house. even the shooter him actually bought the gun legally. >> we give a lot of attention to the mass shootings. but the every day, every weekend shootings store purchases an gun trafficking have a lot to do with those shootings. there's many more deaths because of the individual shootings. you see more in urban america than the mass shootings. it will make a big difference. that's one of the big problems,

the store purchases. >> i'll let you wrap and leave us with a thought of what we will see on wednesday. we see these mass shootings, incredible gun violence. at the same time it seems the lobby, gun lobby is so strong we can't legislate this. that debate goes back and forth. you can't legislate the problem. don't make it harder for some people, law abiding citizens to get guns. what is the takeaway and what do you hope will be the takeaway what we do next. >> i hope we pass background checks and even gun owners, mike thompson is one of them, congressman mike thompson, he is a gun owner. he's one of the sponsors of this bill. we have 189 bipartisan sponsors of a background check bill. 80 to 90% of americans including majority of nra members believe in this bill. so as a first step i hope we can get that legislation passed. we are very, very close. we just need a call to the floor. >> congresswoman kelly, i'm

pretty sure we'll be talking to you later this week. we'll see you when that report is released on wednesday. >> thank you. >> we're about twenty minutes to the top of the hour. ahead, harley davidson is going electric. sign of the times or sign of the apocalypse? first 44 years ago president nixon signed an amendment lowering voting age to 18 years old. pressure grew during 1960s. the vietnam war, young men could enlist in the army but couldn't vote. president nixon had some reservations about signing the law but did it anyway. here is how "nightly news" covered that story. >> president nixon this afternoon signed into law the measure which extends the right to vote to 18 years old in all elections. at the same time he called for a prompt test in the courts of the law's constitutionality. mr. nixon favors lowering will voting age but believes it should be done by separate states rather than an act of

congress. today the president asked congress to submit to 50 states a constitutional amendment so that 18 years old can vote under that system all across the country. in the meantime despite all of this, the right of 18 years old to vote in all elections is now the law of the land. okay, listen up! i'm re-workin' the menu. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition in charge™.

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half hours. that's going to be an issue. associate editor of "wire" magazine, is that one of the biggest challenges in possibly marketing this thing, it only goes so far. >> i think that's one of the problems it will face, same problems electric cars face prius and tesla to an extent, range is limited. i don't think harley is going to pitch this as a bike for long highway cruising like the rest of its products are. it already does well in that market. what this is going to be, go after a younger crowd, more urban crowd, people who live in the city where 50 miles of range a day is more than enough and can charge it up in their garage at night. >> natural revolution of harley davidson icon. traditional harley riders might look at this and thumb their nose, if you will. this is not about playing to the market they already v this is

about expanding their market. >> exactly. harley needs to grow its volume. it's got shareholders stance or 2014 sales haven't been ticking upward as much in the last few years. it already has its harley customers. those guy who love the rumble of the engine, they are already buying harley. to get to the bigger volume sales you want, have you to come up with something new for a different crowd. >> you're one of the privileged few who has been able to actually test this bike, a prototype. when might it be ready and give me your impressions from riding the bike. a lot of people are curious, how does it sound? >> the sound you get is nothing like the traditional rumble of the harley, the potato potato sound, similar to harley speed engine. the sound sounds very much like what you hear in an airplane taking off, high-pitched whir. it sounds good when you're sitting on a motorcycle and you can get from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. the sound that isn't that

exciting becomes pretty fun. >> again, how long before this thing might be ready. gena prototype now. are they sure they are moving forward with this or is it possible they might not pursue it? >> they might not pursue it. personally, i think they will. the way they are pitching this, they are very excited but downplaying the importance of it. they are calling this a concept bike. the tour they are doing around the country, canada and europe over the next year and a half, two years, their ideas they will talk to customers, their own customers, other people invited to come in and take rides and see if they like it. if they like it, they will move ahead and take it to market. >> go ahead. right now what? >> right now the way the bike feels, it feels production ready, doesn't feel like a concept. >> are they getting some criticism, pushback from traditional liists out there? are some people saying, no, not harley. >> i'm sure plenty of people will think that way.

young people who want a cool, new ride, no, harley doesn't have that association. i want it from zero motorcycles or young startups in the area but i don't think there's any reason harley can capture some of that market. the image has changed. it's been around 110, 111 years. it's certainly evolved then. there's no reason it can't keep changing going forward. >> today's big idea. alex davies, we appreciate it. we'll skee, new york has an event where they will preview this thing. thank you so much. nice talking to you. >> thank you for having me. >> folks, do you have a big idea making a difference? we want to hear about it. e-mail it to us at big idea.msnbc@nbcuni.com. up next a dog that goes way beyond being man's best friend. in this case it's a girl's best friend. you want to see this.

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people always talk about man's best friend. right? dogs. but we've got a story here about a little girl's best friend. taxi is a guide dog for 14-year-old rachel. the two have been side by side the last four years. rachel suffers from epileptic seizures and taxi has the ability to stiff them out before they ever happen. with me now from austin is rachel, along with her mom, teresa, and the dog is there. you can't see but the dog is hanging out there as well. ladies, good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> thank you for being here. teresa, tell me, did you know -- how did this come about? a lot of people probably just aren't familiar that will are dogs that can do this. >> well, actually we were very lucky in that taxi found us. i think it was like a god thing. but taxi didn't make the guide

dog program because he was distracted by cats. so a girl that i had randomly met at a silpada party happened to be a dog trainer and she worked for guide dogs of texas. she asked them what happens to the dogs when they don't make the program and they said they rehomed them. she asked if she could train them as a seizure dog. that's how we got taxi. she remembered meeting me. thee tracked us down and the rest is history. >> were you skeptical? you had heard much about this before? >> we had had seen a program one time on a news program about it but we didn't really flow a whole lot. we were a little skeptical. mostly we were worried because at that time rachel was afraid of animals and so we weren't sure how it was going to all work out. but they turned out to be a great team. >> how has this dog changed y'all's life, teresa, and rachel, i'll bring you in and let you answer that as well.

teresa, mom, let me start with you. how has this dog changed y'all's lives? >> it has given us huge relief. i can't tell you how many times we're just constantly worried especially when rachel's swimming or just anything when she's playing. you have to let her be a child but it is constant worry that she is going to have a seizure and hurt herself really bad. we've heard so many stories where it takes one bad seizure are where you hit your head the wrong way and a child dies. so having taxi alert us before that happens is just such a huge, huge relief and it has given us just great joy. >> rachel, you don't go anywhere without taxi, do you? >> no. >> where is taxi -- there's taxi. rachel, you tell me, what is it like in school? you take the dog to school. it is everywhere with you. what kind of reaction do you get from your friends? how is it always having the dog around? >> it's good. >> it's good? >> taxi's up and active now.

mom, if you can, explain to us really how this works, how is the dog able to -- i think it's right -- literally sniff out when she may be in danger of having a seizure? >> well, like i've mentioned before, we don't really know for sure but we suspect it is a smell. i guess until they can talk, we'll never know for sure, but he just knows and his behavior really changes and that's when we know something is wrong. >> what does he do? >> well, you've seen how docile he is most of the time. he gets very excited and antsy. then it depend on what she's doing. when she was in the water swimming, he literally jumped in the pool and started slapping at the water with his paws. or when she was going to go outside, he jumped up on his hindlegs and held her down with his paws so she couldn't go outside. it just kind of depends on what she's doing. but mostly he gets very antsy

and he's kind of afraid of it actually. >> you've had some close calls. i take it. but is the dog pretty much, teresa, always right? >> he has always been right. >> wow. >> yeah. it's pretty crazy. >> it is pretty crazy. well rachel and teresa and of course, taxi there as well, i want to thank you all so much for taking a few minutes out with us. it is a fascinating story. i think it probably needs to get out there a little bit more. a lot of people may not be familiar that something like this is available but to hear how it's changed y'all alives has been really incredible. so rachel, you take care. teresa as well. y'all have a good one there. we're getting close to the top of the hour. that's our show for now. thanks so much for watching us this sunday afternoon. reminder for you here, make sure you join "morning joe." mika brzezinski tomorrow, one-on-one interview with president obama. that is right here on msnbc. so have a great evening. i know what y'all are probably

going to be doing here in about two hours. right? go team usa versus portugal. i don't care how good looking the dude is from portugal, okay? go usa!

>> they are the good guys. >> the dog looked like he was about to get swept away. >> and the bad. >> trying to slit my throat from behind, telling me she's going to kill me. >> men and women capable of courageous action. >> if we didn't get things going quickly, he was losing brain function. >> or dastardly deeds. >> they were carrying guns, big guns. >> from the valiant. >> i didn't know how many thrusts it would take. he was a lot bigger guy than i was. >> to the violent. >> the first few blows were so