next on "meet the press," president obama's war on terror in the middle east. will anything short of american military action prevent the creation of an al qaeda-linked terror state stretching from iraq to syria? i'll be joined exclusively by benjamin netanyahu. plus my interview with rand paul of kentucky that's making big news. his surprising assessment of president obama's handling of iraq and a warning that benghazi could haunt a hillary clinton presidential run. and political mud slinging, the inside story on this week's big gop senate race that's made national headlines with the secret video shot in a nursing home and even sarah palin and

bret favre are taking sides. and good sunday morning. we want to start with the very latest now on the crisis in iraq as the islamist group isis continues to make gains. secretary of state john kerry is on the push for a diplomatic solution. chief white house correspondent chuck todd joins me right now. he's got more on what president obama has had to say about the iraq crisis in an interview that will air tomorrow on msnbc's "morning joe." chuck, good morning. >> good morning, david. secretary kerry is in cairo today. we expect him to be in baghdad soon. but as we found out in that interview that president obama did with mika brzezinski, he laid out what appears to be his vision of what american foreign policy is going to look like in the middle east for years to come. >> i think that one of the things that the american people, at least, understand is that

these societies are going through these enormous transformations. and what we can do is work with the best impulses there. folks that understand moderation, tolerance or trying to deliver for their people. the extremism that isis represents. what we're not going to do is chase wherever extremists appear, occupy those countries for long periods of time and think somehow we're going to solve those problems. >> at times, doesn't seem like anything's gone right in this region from the administration. from benghazi, the civil war in syria, uprisings in egypt. and three failed mideast peace process attempts. but the president's decision to send 300 military advisers to iraq is part of what some have called his new light footprint strategy. what is it? it's a counterterrorism strategy

that's similar to the one the u.s. has been implementing against al qaeda in yemen. it's a strategy that means fewer troops on the ground and more drones in the air. he outlined this new strategy at a commencement speech at west point in may. >> we have to develop a strategy that matches this threat. one that expands our reach without sending forces that stretch our military too thin. or stir up local resentments. >> the increase in stability in the middle east can be traced to the iraq war and the arab spring, which some critics believe this administration is mismanaged. >> this arab spring this administration has put into effect, which really, whether by intention or neglect has brought chaos through this entire region. >> and proving nothing is black and white in the middle east, the president this week found himself calling for iran's help in iraq. >> all iraq's neighbors have a vital interest ensuring that iraq does not become a safe haven for terrorists. >> now, david, of course, on the issue of iran, one of john

kerry's goals is to try to make sure iran doesn't have too much influence in the formation of yet another new government. this has been a tricky balancing act that the administration is trying to have. they know they need iran's help in iraq a little bit, but don't want iran to have too much influence. >> chuck, thank you so much. you can see the rest of my colleague mika brzezinski's interview with president obama tomorrow morning on morning joe on msnbc. i'm joined exclusively now by benjamin netanyahu. prime minister, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you, david. good to be with you. >> let me pick up on the reporting of chuck todd and hearing the comments, his cautious approach to intervening in iraq. do you fear that could strengthen iran? >> look, i think it's a complicated situation. there are no easy answers. but what you're seeing in the middle east today in iraq and in syria is the -- radical shiites

and sunnis. and when your enemies are fighting each other, don't strengthen either one of them, weaken both. and i think by far the worst outcome that could come out of this is that one of these factions, iran, would come out with nuclear weapons capability. that would be a tragic mistake. it would -- it would make everything else pale in comparison. i think the ultimate and most important goal in the middle east is to make sure that iran does not have nuclear weapons capability. >> to that point. >> those weapons, unlike mortars and machine guns can kill thousands and chemical weapons kill tens of thousands. nuclear weapons could kill millions. that should be prevented at all costs. >> you're well briefed on how the united states is approaching the negotiations with iran to get it to abandon a nuclear weapons program. are you concerned based on anything you've seen that the u.s. is softening its negotiating stance to try to get

iran's help in iraq? >> well, i hope they don't come up with a bad deal. i'll tell you what a good deal is. a good deal is actually what was negotiated by the united states and president obama in the case of the chemical weapons in syria. haven't solved the problem between sunnis and shiites, but you did remove the bulk of the weapons and the stockpiles. removed them. i think what is being discussed in the case of iran by the international community is that you remove most of the sanctions and iran gets to keep most of the capabilities, most of the stockpil stockpiles, most of the ability to manufacture the means to make nuclear weapons. that's a terrible mistake. i hope it doesn't come to pass. because i think this would change history. it would be a monumental mistake. in the context of the world at large and the middle east as it is today, this would be a tragic, tragic outcome. >> let me be clear on what your

views are. should the u.s. go forward with air strikes in iraq? do you think that strengthens iran, strengthens the shia? >> i think there are two actions you have to take. one is to take the actions that you deem necessary to counter the takeover of iraq. and the second is not to allow iran to dominate iraq the way it dominated lebanon and syria. you actually have to work on both sides. as i say, you try to weaken both. there are actions that could be taken whatever i have to say on specific actions -- i'll obviously pass along to president obama in the u.s. administration and other means not on "meet the press." >> let me ask you about a couple of matters closer to home. you're in the middle of launching a muscular military camp pain on tcampaign after th

teenagers were abducted, including an american teenager, an american citizen. the president of the palestinian authority saying in arabic this week, quote, the missing settlers in the west bank are human beings like us, we must look for them and return them to their families. was that a significant step forward? a significant sign of military cooperation between the palestinians and israel in your judgment? >> i think it was good that he said that. and i think it would be tested now by his willingness to stop the incitement against israel and the glorification of terrorists. this would be a good departure toward that direction. and secondly, he helps us catch the kidnappers and breaks the pact he made with the hamas organization that kidnapped these teenagers. i think that would be a good development, it would be the right direction. i think you can't have it both ways. you can't talk about peace with israel and be in unity government with hamas that kidnaps israeli teenagers and

calls for israel's destruction. you can have one or the other but not both. i hope president abbas chooses the right thing. >> as peace talks have stalled between you and the palestinian authority, there's been new pressure from some religious groups, the presbyterians in the united states have just passed a decision voted to divest its holdings in companies that do business with israel that sell products to israel they claim are used in the course of the occupation of the palestinians. how troubling is this to you? do you think there'll be other protestant denominations that follow suit? >> trouble people of all conscious and morality because it's so disgraceful. and i think most americans understand this. they see this enormous area riveted by religious hatred by savagery of unimaginable proportions. then you come to israel and see the one democracy that upholds basic human rights, protects

christians. christians are persecuted throughout the middle east. most understand that it is a beacon of civilization and moderation. i would suggest to the organizations to fly to the middle east, come see israel for the embattled democracy that it is and then take a bus tour. go to libya, go to syria, go to iraq and see the difference. and i would give them two pieces of advice. one is make sure it's an armor plated bus. and second, don't -- don't say you're christians. >> prime minister netanyahu. as always, we thank you for your views and joining us this morning. >> thank you. i spoke with republican senator rand paul from kentucky who has been a strong voice against military intervention in iraq. he refused criticize president obama's current stance on iraq, but did have strong words for what benghazi will mean for hillary clinton's political future. >> senator paul, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning.

glad to be here. >> let's get to the debate of the day. that is over the future of iraq. last year on this program, we were talking about syria. and at that time, you said there was no clear cut american interest. do you see a clear cut american interest in iraq? >> i see mostly confusion and chaos. and i think some of the chaos is created from getting involved in the syrian civil war. you have to realize some of the islamic rebels we've been supporting are actually allies of the group that is in iraq causing all this trouble. i see that in the syrian civil war we're sending arms in opp e opposing proxies. even maybe fighting alongside. >> before you get to that, isis has been billed by many as a clear and present danger to the united states as a terrorist actor. do you see that? >> i ask, do i want to send one of my sons or your son to fight to regain mosul? i think, yes, but who should

want to stop them more? maybe the people who live there. should not the shiites, the maliki government, should they not stand up and if they're ripping off their uniforms and fleeing, how am i going to convince my son or your son to die for mosul? i know they're bad terrorists and we should prevent them from exporting terror, but i'm not sure where the clear cut american interest is. >> well, is it to protect america if these are terrorists who design to hit america? >> well, i think if they are, then maybe we shouldn't be funding their allies and supporting them in syria. you see, they're emboldened because we've been supporting them. it could be that assad wiped these people out months ago. we get in a confusing situation. and i personally believe this group would not be in iraq and would not be as powerful had we not been supplying their allies in the war as well as our allies are funding these people. they probably have weapons that were bought either with saudi money or qatar money. a lot of the radicals have been

getting arms from these countries. >> he also wants to send 300 advisers there to help out. >> i don't question the 300 advisers for this reason. i'm not sure exactly where they're going or what they're doing, i do think we have an embassy there and we have 1,000 or 2,000 people that, yes, we have to defend our embassy. i'm not going to nitpick the president and you shouldn't send in advisers. and i've been talking a lot about benghazi and how we didn't protect them. i'm not going to get involved or criticize the president for trying to protect our embassy there. >> former vice president dick cheney has been critical. saying in part, rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. too many times to count, mr. obama has told us he's ending the wars in iraq and afghanistan as though wishing makes it so. do you think dick cheney is a credible critic of this president? >> i think the same questions could be asked of those who

supported the iraq war, you know, were they right in their predictions? were there weapons of mass destruction there? that's what the war was sold on. was democracy achievable? was the war won in 2005 when many people said it was won? they didn't, really, i think understand the civil war that would break out. and what's going on now i don't blame on president obama. has he got the solution? maybe there is no solution. but i do blame the iraq war on the chaos that is in the middle east. i also blame those for the iraq war emboldening iran. i understand some of their worry. >> you're not a dick cheney republican when it comes to american power in the middle east? >> what i would say is that the war emboldened iran. much more of a threat than they were before. before there was a standoff between sunnis and shiites, now ther there is throughout the region. >> has it made it less safe and less respected in that part of the world? >> i don't know if i would put

it that way. i disagree with the president on the libyan incursion and disarming the rebels. i've been trying to end it for years. one of the more important constitutional questions here is what authority does anyone have to go to war in iraq? i've been trying to take that authority away. i introduced a vote about a year or two ago and only got about 33, 34 votes to end the war even though it's over. can one generation bind another generation? can the people you elected in 2002 who voted to go to war in 2002, does that bind us forever? are we at war forever? no geographic limit and no temporal or time limit on this? i think there has to be a limit. and then if we go to war again, and i'm not saying we never go to war, that's why i've said i don't rule out air strikes. if we go to war, there needs to be a vote of american people through the representatives. we need to have a consensus that, yes, it is worth dying even though the shiites or people living there are not willing to fight for it.

>> you have blamed republicans and democrats for the prosecution of foreign policy, that would include secretary of state hillary clinton. if she's a candidate for president and if you're a candidate for president, is this the main argument against her candida candidacy? >> i think the bar you have to cross is will you defend the country and provide adequate security? to me, it's not the talking points, that's never been the most important part of benghazi, it's the six months leading up to benghazi where there were multiple requests for more security and it never came. this was under hillary clinton's watch. she will have to overcome that and we will make her answer for benghazi. >> let me turn to some domestic matters. on the issue of immigration, big issue in the republican party right now, eric cantor losing in part because of that. a tea party grass roots activism, which is part of the base that you excite in the republican party really opposing any move toward amnesty. here's rupert murdoch, chairman

of news corp. and he writes this this week, we need to give those individuals who are already here after they've passed checks to ensure they're not dangerous criminals a path to citizenship to pay taxes and be productive members of our community. is this call, which is basically what others would call amnesty, something that the party needs to rethink its opposition to? >> i think that everyone needs to be for some form of immigration reform because the status quo is untenable. so i consider myself a bridge to the conservative community because i am about as conservative as they come, maybe a little libertarian, too. but i think if we do nothing, 11 million more people may be coming illegally. we have to do something. but here's the conundrum. i think the conundrum has been pointed out by the children being dumped on the border right now. there's a humanitarian disaster, 50,000 kids being dumped on this side of our border. you have a beacon, forgiveness, and you don't have a secure border. that's why conservatives who are

for immigration reform, i am for immigration reform, but i insist you secure the border first because if you have a beacon of some kind of forgiveness without a secure border -- >> is a pathway to citizenship amnesty in your book? >> that's the whole problem with this, what is amnesty? i'll give you an example. the platform in one state i was in recently says no deportation and no amnesty. well, if you're not going to deport people, you are somehow changing the current law because the current law says everybody must go. >> you said, the parties should give up -- >> i think we need to get beyond it. the status quo's not acceptable. i am for pushing and trying to say to my conservatives across the country, border security first, but then we should have something that allows people who want to work in our country who are here, i will say we will find a place for you if we want to work and link it to work. >> and a path to citizenship -- >> it's a more difficult goal. >> you wouldn't rule it out.

>> i don't think any immigration reform will get out of washington. i do think there is a path to a secure border and an expanded work visa program. >> you are championing another piece of legislation that could be controversial. but it focuses an area where you think you can work with democrats. here's something you said last year, if i told you that 1 out of 3 african-american males is forbidden by law from voting, you might think i was talking about jim crow 50 years ago. yet today, a third of african-american males are still prevented from voting because of the war on drugs. what do you mean? and what do you want to do about it? >> we've gotten distracted by a lot of other things. we think there may be 1 million people prevented from voting for having a previous felony conviction. i'll give you an example. i have a friend whose brother 30 years ago grew marijuana plants in college. he made a mistake, probably would tell you now it's a mistake. he still can't vote. and every time he goes to get a job, he has to check a box that says convicted felon. if we're the party of family

values and keeping families together and a party that believes in redemption or second chances, we should be for letting people have the right to vote back. and the face of the republican party needs to not be about suppressing the vote, but enhancing the vote. i have a bill i'm going to introduce next week would allow somewhere between 500,000 to 1 million people to get the right to vote back. >> and you have some democratic support on this? >> well, yeah, it's going to be a mixture. my bill only does nonviolent felons. there's another bill where i support the concept but maybe not the whole thing. it allows all felons to get the right to vote back. there's a little bit of give. but there are a lot of us -- and i'm on his side of the concept, maybe not quite there on the bill. but we both have bills that are driving this concept forward. >> other action has to do with the controversy around the washington redskins. 50 democratic senators saying the nhl should force the redskins to change their name because they believe the redskins' name is a slur. do you agree with that?

>> i'm not much for government getting involved in the nfl. i don't really have a personal, private or public opinion on what the redskins' name should be. i do think for the most part, particularly professional sports has the ability because they make special contracts to really force people to do stuff and they can. there could be something, with the recent controversy in basketball and all that stuff, there are contracts to talk about behavior. i don't know with the name. i think sometimes -- for example, i think sometimes we get distracted by things when there are more important things. like on the voting thing, all kinds of discussion about voter i.d. and all that. but really, what's the most important issue, 1 million people prevented from voting, literally and legally prevented from voting because they have a previous conviction. i think that's the bigger issue than all the other stuff. >> we're in a big election year. i have one final question on hillary clinton in a moment. i want to show you something from our poll that's daunting

for both parties. the president's in a world of trouble. but look at the status of the democratic versus the republican party. the republican party is less popular and viewed more negatively than the democratic party when a lot of these midterm races are viewed as a referendum on the incumbent president. why is that the case? >> i think washington in general is unpopular. the president and congress because we seem dysfunctional and we are dysfunctional. i'll give you an example. i'm pushing repatriation, letting money come home from overseas and building roads with it. we would lower taxes, brings in more tax revenue and build roads. something everybody is for. and it's like pulling teeth to get washington to vote on it and to pass it. but if it actually came forward and let us have a vote in the senate, there's 70 votes for it in the senate. >> on hillary clinton, you said she'd be made to pay for benghazi. how? >> she'll have to explain how she can be commander in chief when she was not responsive to multiple requests for security in the six months leading up. plus, there were a lot of expenditures on her watch.

$50,000 was spent on facebook ads when they didn't have enough for security. so there's a lot of expenditures that she approved, but she wouldn't approve a 16-person personnel team and wouldn't approve an airplane to get around the country. in the last 24 hours, a plane was very important and it wasn't available. these are really serious questions beyond talking points that occurred under her watch. >> benghazi is disqualifying for her? >> i think so. the american people want a commander in chief that will send reenforcements. and i think in the moment of need, a long moment, a six-month moment, she wasn't there. >> senator rand paul, as always, thank you for your views. >> thank you. >> we covered a lot of ground there. i'm joined by michael mccall, chair of the house homeland security committee and michelle who served as undersecretary of defense in the obama

administration in 2012. first, i want to get the latest on the extremist group isis and how in the short amount of time they've become perhaps the biggest terror threat to face the united states. andrea mitchell has more. >> reporter: iraq is being pushed to the breaking point by isis. the radical insurgents fighting in syria and now surging through iraq. so extreme, even al qaeda rejected isis for the murderous tactics. it is brutal, well organized. some 10,000 sunni militants operating more like an army than rag tag insurgents. executing anyone who gets in their way. >> it also poses, you know, great danger, potentially to europe and ultimately the united states. >> their goal, form a hard line islamic state from syria to iraq and beyond. their progress so far, nothing short of terrifying. >> what they've done in iraq, what they've done in syria, and what they look to do in the west

means they are certainly the best funded, one of the most organized and one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations in the world today. >> the fund raising looks more like a corporation than a terror group. look at their last annual report. glossy, highly produced, measuring performance by listing nearly 8,000 attacks in iraq, 1,000 assassinations, 4,000 roadside bombs, an elaborate pitch to raise money from foreign backers principally in saudi arabia and kuwait. >> it is capacity and wherewithal to maximize its presence in social media using techniques that many have said would be the envy of corporations. >> reporter: also raises tens of millions of dollars through smuggling, extortion and kidnapping for ransom. most alarming, this just-released video which nbc news cannot independently confirm. a sophisticated propaganda offensive, even using english to retract western recruits,

including americans who can travel more easily to europe and the u.s. potentially, one of the most significant terror threats now facing the homeland. for "meet the press," andrea mitchell, nbc news. >> thank you. chairman mccall, an awful ideology, hardened fighters, worse than al qaeda was before the 9/11 attacks. >> well, they're so extreme that al qaeda, core al qaeda has denounced them for their tactics. i would say the vacuum, the training ground that the state that they're creating in syria and now iraq is far surpassing what we saw before 9/11 in afghanistan and pakistan. >> spell that out. what do you fear about their movement and their ability and their desire? what are their ultimate desires with regard to the united states? >> well, i think right now they're focused on establishing the islamic state in the region. but i think after that is the external operations against the west and the united states. it is the number one threat to the homeland, the secretary of homeland security agrees with me in that assessment.

why is that? you're having foreign fighters pour all over this world into this region with legal travel documents, people from australia. this is a major threat to not only the region and iraq, but also the security, the american people on american soil. >> take me through the president's thinking on potential air strikes to deal with isis. there's a huge political problem in iraq, but he's got a war on terror he has to wage against a group that's worse than al qaeda. >> well, i do think the president's initial steps have been absolutely on target. deploying additional intelligence, reconnaissance. actually, overhead assets trying to get more intelligence on the situation, deploying almost 300 special operations forces to get on the ground assess the situation, work with the more capable iraqi counterterrorism units, start developing targeting packages. and then he's moved to strike

assets into the region to give him some military options should the conditions -- >> so when and how do you pull the trigger? what are you careful about? >> well, the important thing is that the ultimate solution here is a political one that brings all of the parties back to the table and particularly brings the alienated sunni leadership and population back to the table. we cannot act as if we're just the air force for radical shia elements on the ground. and so that political process has to happen. but militarily, we also have an interest in stopping the progress of isis. and that means developing very discreet isis targets. >> that don't hit civilians, that don't inflame the situation. other governments, they say, look, you can't just hit isis in iraq, you've got to hit them in syria, too. or else you look like you're taking sides. >> i agree with michelle's analysis. i think the number one -- two goals. dual strategy.

one is to look at targeted air strikes against isis without collateral damage to the sunnis. two is a diplomatic solution in the region. i know secretary kerry is going to develop a regional strategy that's very important. anything we do militarily will fail. but i believe if we can take out these isis elements that exist, wherever they exist, that not only stabilizes the region, but then takes away and eliminates the number one threat. >> as you look, do you agree, then, with how the president's approaching it thus far? >> well, it's a little late. i think the warning signs are there. having a residual force as a result in this. maliki has mismanaged the way he dealt with the sunnis. i think it's time for maliki to go and have a new prime minister of iraq that we can work with. but i think the president needs to be more heavily engaged in the political diplomatic process to find a diplomatic political solution. and that's what i would urge the

white house, i've talked to them. i do think they're on the right track now in terms of this dual strategy. >> do we see more of a yemen model where we have cooperation on the ground with potentially a new government in maliki goes? and the u.s. is really in the business of targeting key terrorist groups? >> i think the name of the game militarily will be empowering a legitimate indigenous military on the ground. >> but they don't want to fight if they're helping maliki, right? >> the precursor to all of this is the political reconciliation, the government that truly represents the parties. >> it seems to me -- the president doesn't want to rush in and try to decapitate isis. if that only strengthens maliki, when he believes maliki is a big piece of this problem. >> well, i think we want to put pressure on and if possible decapitate isis if we have that opportunity. but we can't do that without an all out effort to try to bring all the parties together

politically for a more inclusive government going forward. >> i think we need to stop the bleeding. when i talked to general allen, the ones who won this war and talked to petraeus, a great special envoy, by the way, to the region. you've got to stop the bleeding. and that's the way, targeted strikes. at the same time, the diplomatic political solution. >> just a few seconds left, another area at the border, we've had this massive influx of unaccompanied minors illegally crossing the mexican border. it's a huge issue for the administration. do you blame the administration for some confusion about the policy about people thinking they'd get an entry permit. >> i had a crisis in my own state. i believe the failed border security strategy has resulted. and this, i believe, the message is if you come to the united states, you can stay. and i do think i've talked to secretary johnson about this

extensively, i have a hearing about this, but we have to not only secure the border, but work with the mexicans to get the southern mexican border secure. >> we're going to leave it there. more to come on this. i thank you both for being here. >> thanks, dave. >> i don't believe you. this is incredible. coming up, that outburst from house budget chairman paul ryan. what was he so angry about? our political round table is up next to discuss an obama administration controversy not going away. >> "meet the press" is brought to you by boeing. where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. everything your mouth does in a day is building up layer, upon layer, of bacteria. and to destroy those layers? you need listerine®. its unique formula penetrates these layers deeper than other mouthwashes, killing bacteria all the way down to the bottom layer. so for a cleaner, healthier mouth, go with #1 dentist recommended listerine®.

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we are back. political roundtable here to discuss iraq and politics. e.j. dion, katty kay anchor of bbc world news america. for the first time on the program i'd like to welcome erika harold, an attorney, congressional candidate for illini and also miss america in 2003. >> thank you for having me. >> thanks for being here. david brook, the cover of "time"

magazine, "the end of iraq." not as we know it but maybe just the end. a lot to digest. what is the president going to do? >> there's two issues, first the discreet isis issue. we can't allow it. that's got to be a strategy. a bipartisan agreement on what needs to happen. we heard it today. the only disagreement is how aggressive to be. political side to get maliki out and unified government, then has to be a military piece. so i think everyone sort of agrees on that. the question is how hard are you going to push, how quickly are you going to military. >> quickly, as the president is thinking about this, also the debate over iraq, you wrote about it, people talking about it. the president when he spoke about it was very clearly answering those former bush figures like vice president cheney when he said the following during a press conference thursday. >> recent days reminded us of the deep scars left by america's war in iraq. what's clear from the last decade is the need for the

united states to ask hard questions before we take action abroad. particularly military action. >> that's a not so veiled jab at his critics. >> that's right. i think that you've had this debate over who lost iraq, which is not a great question to ask in the first place. have you what i saw as a pretty outrageous dick cheney piece in the "wall street journal" that almost accused the president of being a traitor. determined to leave office ensuring he's taken america down a notch. i think what you see, american policy that dare not speak its name. we don't like to say we're realists. his position, we're going to intervene when we're at stake. isis is an organization. as one official said they make other extremist groups look like the jv. we're worried this is a group that could threaten us. we also know maliki has alienated sunni so much some of

the tribes, some of the sunni tribes that really don't like isis, really don't like what they want to do, have sided with them. that's why a political solution is so important. >> the public is behind getting involved in iraq whatsoever but the concept of a war on terrorism, which is not how president obama is describe it but that's what he's facing in isis. >> there is this intention where there's not political will to send combat troops back in, but i don't think americans feel comfortable or proud of the notion we would do nothing. the president's challenge finding a way of crafting a solution that does not involve sending troops back in but gives us a sense we're doing something. >> interesting, katty. here and abroad for president obama, this leaps out at me, where 54% of those polled don't believe that the president can lead and get the job done anymore. >> particularly if you look at the foreign policy polling numbers where he's doing very

badly. to some extent reflection of the fact foreign policy that been dominating the news at all. at a time, as erika suggests, americans aren't interested in it. americans don't want to talk about iraq, don't want to talk about isis. most americans quite understandably are asking themselves, what has this got to do with me. let them fight this. if we get involved in airstrikes, where are we in eight months' time? are we going to stay there to see a political process go through? that's going to take a heck of a lot more time than airstrikes. that's the americans reflection in the poll numbers. >> head of the irs over lost drives and lost e-mails with regard to targeting tea party groups. this is a story that doesn't go away for president obama. no direct evidence of wrongdoing. this is not great confidence and management when you can't find missing e-mails. >> i think americans have a real sense of cynicism because they feel like there's a set of rules for the average citizen and then

a set of rules for powerful and politically connected. i think a lot of people know if they were being audited by the irs and they said, i simply lost all the documentation -- >> how would that go. >> i think they would not find a very sympathetic ear. >> the problem with the irs story. the irs was trying to do what needs to be done, which is there is an abuse of the 501 c 4 status. you should not have all these political groups getting that status. that's what they were trying to fix. then all kinds of stories how were they targeting, turned out they weren't as partisan in their targeting. i actually believe in the government it is quite possible incompetence rather than conspiracy led to this. but put yourself on the other side. if this happened in a different administration, i can imagine what democrats would say. it's very inconvenient incompetence incompetence. >> the competence issue is a problem for the white house. it's rubbing off on them. in your polls president obama is

less competent than president bush after katrina. >> every week we're now going to be showing you surveys we have, some new polling we're doing each week in coordination with "wall street journal" and annenberg poll. today's numbers are interesting, might be a warning side for jeb bush and hillary clinton. we'll look at them there 2016 jeb push as president, 48% past policies, 30% vision. similar numbers with hillary clinton. 49% represents a return to past policies. 42%, new ideas and vision. what's old is new again or maybe not. >> i think these two campaigns are in much more worse shape, fraught shape than people think. like two stately ocean liners. nobody wants to go back. the country has moved on from where we were in the '90s, the parties have certainly moved on from where we were in the '90s.

the bush clinton messages i think will be regarded as stale and will be challenged. >> how about the fact rand paul says benghazi is disqualifying for hillary clinton. >> i'm not surprised he tried to move off iraq and onto benghazi and hillary clinton. there's something interesting about those numbers. i think if she runs hillary clinton is going to be the democratic nominee and the signs are she's going to run. there's a 12-point gap on who brings new ideas in hillary clinton's favor, she runs about eight points ahead of the most recent poll i've seen, ahead of jeb bush. i think what that says, americans might not be wild about going back, but if they are going back they would rather go back to the '90s than 2000s. in the competition of old and old, hillary clinton -- >> can i ask a question about immigration, erika, what's interesting to me about rand paul, here he is, a tea party

candidate, who excites that populous base you talked about. he says republicans have to stop talking about amnesty. he's not ready for a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here. this issue is dividing the right. it continues to. >> it continues to. i don't think there's consensus about what we should do. he's right. there's no consensus about what that word means. anything short of deportation mean amnesty? people seeing the crisis of children brought across the border, people understand we have to find a practical solution. it can't be bogged down talking about what these words mean, real consequences. >> president obama's policies, executive orders allowing an easier way for children of illegal immigrants to get in could backfire. certainly not going to help a cause for broader immigration reform. >> that's the argument of those who say the message is getting through to young people in mexico and el salvador when they hear there's a potential for

amnesty if they make it across the border which is why you're seeing a flood of people. you have rand paul, rupert murdoch weighing in on immigration debate, which will be interesting to watch fox news traditionally opposed to immigration form, a change on media outlets. >> you take immigration, environment, other issues as well where the tea party is out of step in our polling with the rest of the republican party, to say nothing of the broader public. how is a candidate going to navigate that primary. >> people are scared of them. i do think they are going to be loathe to challenge that especially in primary campaigns. i think the republican party has a monumental problem until the establishment can rally, a blue state republican party, different centers of power with equal fer ver. >> the problem for the establishment is they need to challenge the tea party and they clearly have strong support within the republican ranks among nontea party but scared to

do a frontal challenge and say lets have this fight. >> let me take a break. more from the roundtable. meeting america series takes us to one of the most heated elections in the country where even sarah palin and brett favre are taking sides. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you introducing new bounce bursts! steve! it's been a while. you've... got a beard. (laughs) come on in. i've been shaking these bounce bursts into my washer, they bring all the bounce freshness of the outdoors indoors, so... (laughs) i guess i just forgot i wasn't outside. here! see for yourself. (harp music) behold! i love being outdoors. i love bark. shake the outdoors, indoors. with new bounce bursts.

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here now are some of this week's images to remember. ♪ ♪ >> following last week's huge upset of house majority leader eric cantor, the tea party has another target, mississippi senator thad cochran, facing a runoff guess chris mcdaniel tuesday. our kevin tibbles went to olive branch, mississippi to check out one of the most hotly contested races of the year in today's "meeting america."

♪ well since my baby left me >> reporter: in the state that gave the world elvis presley, there is, some say, a battle under way that's shaking the republican establishment here to its very core. >> good old boy network. my granddaddy told me about it when i was five years old. it needs to implode. >> olive branch, mississippi, the run up to this tuesday's runoff has become a noisy and raucous affair with tea party challenger chris mcdaniel winning many over with anti-government spending message. it put thad cochran, second longest serving republican in the political battle of his life. >> people of myself call him thad. >> sells guitars and holds a weekly hoot nanny. the owner likens cochran to an old friend. >> i think he's done a marvelous

job working for people of mississippi. he's brought industry in. he brought money to the state. >> bringing federal dollars to mississippi for everything from roads to water to public safety seems to have become a liability even in one of the poorest states of the nation. inside the old town bakery, the treats much like the political waters here, have mcdaniels biting back. >> he wants to pus the us back in the a as far as united states of america goes. >> lisa callahan says it's time for change and supports mcdaniel, even if it means mississippi refusing some of the cake it's enjoyed in the past. >> it does take money to get big things done. i think that we should have more of a say so of what we want it spent on. >> glory mcneese volunteers for mcdaniel. >> walk the streets as i'm doing now, pushing his information cards, placing signs, anything that it takes to get him in. i think it's time to clean house. >> this vote brought out the big

guns and bair knuckles. home grown hero brett favre has reported a television ad-in support of thad cochran. former alaska governor sarah palin has campaigned for mcdaniel. when a mcdaniel supporter snuck a photo of his sick wife and posted it, some say it's gone too far. >> you don't go to a nursing home and take a picture of somebody that's sick. that's terrible. >> reporter: despite all the celebrity attention, michael says he's undecided. he'll still love mississippi and the king no matter who republicans nominate. for "meet the press," kevin tibbles. >> thank you, kevin and david brook. this is a mississippi story, a story with legs in the political world. >> energy on the mcdaniel side it seems part of the populist, anti-government move and the republican party. >> i hate to turn away from

politics but the nation is going to have its attention on big world cup game on united states against portugal. can they make it to round 16? they have to win today to do it. what do you say? >> they will do it. i predict 2-0. >> 2-0. >> who thought england and spain would be out and we'd still be in? winning creates fans. i think it's amazing what's happened. >> the dupont circle where they will have the big screens up. >> going to lose, soccer is soccer. >> very british about it. >> first time soccer is taking off in a way here that it hasn't before and that's my prediction. thank you all very much. you can continue our conversation about the big question all week long about soccer and about some of the issues with regard to iraq at "meet the press." next week a special "meet the press," exclusive interview and town hall with former president

bill clinton about the economy. that's all for us today. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." good monday morning to you. i'm frances rivera. right now on "first look," world cup fever spreads over america. >> only dempsey. nearly got him. he has gone to bradley, and dempsey! it's 2-1 to the u.s.! >> that hurt! a shocking finish. and we'll tell you what's next for the american upstarts. militants in iraq vowing to march to baghdad where secretary of state kerry has just arrived seeking a solution. plus, katie couric ties the knot. pope francis ex-communicates organized crime members.