so you can be a member of a more secure world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. the next stage of the battle for and about iraq. good morning and thanks for getting up with us for this last sunday in the month of june 2014. the beginning of the current crisis in iraq appeared eto be lopsided. this weekend it could be remembered as the moment when government forces started fighting back. they are battling in tikrit, saddam hussein's hometown. one of the two major cities taken by militants earlier this month. just yesterday iraqi military helicopters began firing upon

tikrit from above. iraqi military is trying to secure the highways into and out of baghdad. they are going to be aided by a fleet of russian fighter jets. these are bought second hard reportedly for $500 million. the first batch of those jets arrived in baghdad yesterday. we want to get the very latest from the ground from nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel who is on the ground in baghdad. richard? >> reporter: good morning. as you said, it seems like the government is finally launching something of an effective counter offensive. there had been several attempts in the last several days to try and push the isis militants out of their stronghold areas in the north and west of iraq, but this time it seems that they are having some success. they are using more fire power. they are using some air power. they are using primarily helicopter gun ships and the focus right now is on tikrit. the iraqi government has claimed

that it has liberated all of tikr tikrit. that doesn't seem to be the case. witnesses do not corroborate that claim. it does seem, however, that the militants from isis have pulled back to another section of tikrit. that haven't left the city entirely. and the iraqi government is still sending in reinforcements, but isis, which has been very effective in putting out its own propaganda videos, just recently posted a video showing a convoy of about 25 vehicles full of more than 100 of its own militants heading toward tikrit. so this could be a long battle before these parts of the country taken over by isis are taken back by the government, if they are taken back by the government. >> and richard, i want to ask you a quick follow-up question on that because we're always hear being there's the government forces and obviously this is a government that's led by shiites but also the shiite militant groups that are out there. when you talk about sort of making up ground here, ground being made up against isis, is this exclusively or primarily

the government forces that are doing this or are also these militant groups involved as well? >> reporter: that's a great question, and i think that's one of the most troubling components of this entire conflict. because the shiite militias are also working with the government. they are working generally independently but in coordination with the government, and we spoke with an iraqi army smander and i asked him this question. i said do you work with the shiite militias, and he said, well, no, we don't work directly with them, but i talk to their leaders and they tell us what they're doing, and i tell them what we're doing, and we exchange information. i said, well, so, therefore, you're working with the militias. he said, no, i don't work with the militias, just work with their leaders. they are working with them but even some in the iraqi military find this relationship uncomfortable. they are also working with some sunni militias. there are sunni groups that were founded under general petraeus called the awakening councils.

they are also working with the iraqi government in some places. so the iraqi government has its armed forces, but it is deputized a large number of shiite militias and is keeping them in the fight, although trying to keep them at an arm's distance as well as sunni militias who are in the fight as well. >> that's one of the hardest things to figure. >> reporter: and then americans are above. and then iranians are here today. >> richard engel in baghdad. great information. thank you for taking the time. stay safe over there. president obama has already said he will not be considering boots on the ground when it comes to u.s. military action in iraq. friday the obama administration confirmed that it is flying armed drones over baghdad. what it might do next is net to be announced or seen, but there have been calls for congress -- from congress to authorize even limited military action. >> if the united states is to contemplate military action in

iraq, the president must seek congressional authorization. it would be the height of public immorality to order service members to risk their lives when the nation's political leadership has not done the work to reach a consensus about the value of a mission. >> virginia democrat tim kane preceded his speech with on op-ed in "the washington post" making him the most vocal member of congress to speak out this week but he is not the only one. we're joining by jim mcdermott, a democrat of washington, who shoated this week that the vietnam war also began as a limited engagement. thank you for joining us this morning. you are one of these members of congress who says if the president wants to take any specific action here militarily, he ought to come to -- he needs to go to congress for that authorization. certainly there's been plenty of reporting and quotes that are out there where the president had this meeting with congressional leaders, democrat and republican, who said the authorization for use of military force that's already in place covers his options right

now. he says anything -- ground troops are off the table but everything else is on the table. they're saying the authorization covers that. you disagree? >> yes. even george bush, jr. when he was going to go into iraq finally decided he ought to get authorization from congress. i think that congress made a mistake in going to iraq in the first place, but they did vote to do it, and a president can do anything he wants, but he gets all the credit and all the blame for what happens if he goes without the congress authorizing. >> but they're saying -- congressman, they're saying that that authorization is still in effect. this is still iraq and this is -- if he wants to do air strikes, for instance, he's covered by that, what they already voted on. >> there are some members of congress who believe that and i think we ought to put it to a vote. the congress is not run by five leaders or six leaders or seven leaders. there are 435 members of the

house of representatives and 100 senators, all of whom have a right to represent their people, and they should do it, and the leaders cannot make a pronouncement like that and expect us to just roll over and accept it. it is simply -- must be voted on by the congress. >> do you have the sense that if any type of military action, not talking ground troops, something like air strikes, for instance, came before congress, just given the mood of the country, given the war fatigue that exists in this country, given what we saw last year when it looked for a while like there was going to be a congressional vote on syria, do you think in light of that that there's any way any kind of military action could be approved by this congress right now? >> it seems to me very doubtful if you put it to the congress because you listen to richard engel and he tells you there are 13 groups of fighters and militias, both shia and sunni over in iraq. tom ricks wrote an article saying which group should we attack? we think we want to attack isis.

that's the one everybody is focused on, but what you're making a collateral damage. people are going to be killed all over the place, and that's the best recruiting tool there is for al qaeda. there is no way that we know intelligencewise how we can sort of point absolutely to where we're going. they're all mixed in together. you heard the militia, are they working with the government, are they not working with the go of the? what you have got is a mess there that we simply cannot go into and surgically carve out some kind of target. >> the case is made though among people who maybe are a little more hawkish on this than you are, the case is made that if isis were to gain a foothold in iraq, that it would represent eventually a significant threat, a significant terrorist threat to the united states. do you see if we don't involve ourselves in this at all, if we let this play out whether it's isis potentially taking power, whether it's a broader regional conflict, all of this sectarian

strife, whether it's iran gaining influence, iran getting more involved directly, do you see the potential if we stay out of it and this all plays out like that, that there is ultimately a threat to the united states? >> the fact is that we created this mess. we gave iraq to the iranians in the form of maliki, a leader who is directly tied to tehran, and we have created that. now, the question is what do you do to get out of it? and my belief is that maliki has to go. the president has said that maliki must go, but at the same time he's sending him arms and he's sending in drones to help him. now, when you talk out of both sides of your mouth in a situation like this, you're going to get into a big mess because you either believe that maliki is the central problem here or you don't. he will not form a unity government. the saudis don't believe it. nobody else believes it in the middle east except tehran likes what's going on so they're

willing to have him stay there. you've got a very complicated thing, and for us to figure that we can send in 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 drones at 10,000 feet or 30,000 feet or whatever and zap some people and suddenly it will be all better is simply believing in the tooth fairy. >> all right. i want to thank congressman jim mcdermott of washington state getting up early out there. appreciate the time. president obama has what might seem to be an unlikely ally in fending off the neoconservatives who believe the u.s. should go back into iraq, but senator rand paul, republican of kentucky, he said last week that many of the critics who blame the president for the insurgency there need so do self reflecting. >> the same questions could be asked of those who supported the iraq war. were they right in their predictions? were there weapons of mass destruction there? was democracy easily achievable? was the war won in 2005 when many of these people said it was won? they didn't really, i think, understand the civil war that would break out and what's going

on now i don't blame on president obama. does he really have the solution? maybe there is no solution. >> that's a refrain rand paul has touched on before saying in an interview last year that republicans are, quote, too eager for war. dick cheney last week described rand paul specifically as, quote, basically an isolationist. he has said the senator's reluctance would endanger the united states. it's a clear example of how the republican party is being torn apart from within on this. a rift that's only going to become more pronounced as the crisis continues to play out and when it comes time for the republicans to pick a nominee for president in 2016. that's a race that's likely to include, of course, rand paul. joining me now to talk more about that nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon, jr., eleanor cliff of the daily beast. perry, start on this issue of rand paul, dick cheney, the republican party and iraq.

that's a pretty significant piece of it. if you go back a decade, the run up to 2002, during the war itself, there was no variety of opinion within the republican party on this. there was ron paul, but ron paul was completely marginalized. i say within the republican party it seems like not only is it even, maybe the balance of public opinion is on rand paul's side. >> look at public opinion. most of the elite republicans, the john mccain's, the lindsey grahams are in the more hawkish group with dick cheney. we should be more involved with iraq. we should do something. the president isn't doing enough. the notion that paul said last week which was the president should not be blamed for this, maybe -- >> so striking and so unusual. >> usually every problem in america is blamed -- everything is blamed on obama by republicans. the paul group, the isolationists or the noninterventionist group, if you look at paul, it's growing among republicans and democrats as well.

that's where things are moving. that's why a vote in congress to get involved in iraq will never pass. the white house knows that as well. if it comes to a vote in congress, that means we've decided basically not to have any kind of air strikes because congress is not going to approve that. >> eleanor, listening to that interview with jim mcdermott, one of the knocks on congress, not just with this but in general when it comes to foreign policy, is congress often the reason a president goes to something and does something without congressional approval is congress doesn't fight, congress doesn't fight for it, they don't want the responsibility, they don't want to go on record. >> that's exactly right. they want the right to complain. >> right. >> if there's a victory, they would like to share in the victory but they are going to hedge their bets and they don't want to be part of the loss. and the fact that congressman mcdermott said, well, you can't have five or six leaders make the decision, the congress should vote. in the house, john boehner decides what is voted on and in the senate it's democrat harry

reid and neither of those men are going to bring anything to a vote. so in effect it's kind of a lock down and you have both parties divided. nancy pelosi has said flatly that the 2002 resolution covers whatever -- not whatever, it doesn't cover boots on the ground, but it covers limited action in iraq. >> air strikes. >> yes. and on the republican side, you have the rand paul faction which is really in tune with the country and the hawkish side i think is mostly talking to themselves. so neither party really wants to bring this to a vote and the president doesn't really want to go into iraq either and i don't think he's going to. you have the syrian air force conducting the air strikes that maliki wanted the u.s. to do, so why bother? >> that's the question i have when i think back to syria last year and, of course, john kerry came out and made that really strong speech where this is why we want to do air strikes, and it seemed like the president maybe didn't want to but felt compelled to, and then there was this ground swell of public

opposition, some members of congress started speaking out and then suddenly he said he has to go to congress for it and before that agreement was struck it looked like this is going to get voted down in congress. could that kind of scenario play out here at all if the president makes a any noise? >> the president ended up with egg on his face because of that, so i don't think they're going to walk into that again. although, could you argue he was listening to public opinion and that in the end -- >> it was a way out. >> it was a way out and it was the right decision, but it was so messy getting there, and i think other world leaders look at it as the president having made a declaration and then backing down, and so i think it's cost him some in terms of his stature around the world. >> you can tell the white house must be aware of this. tim kane is a big obama supporter. he was one of the first endorsers, the dnc chair. the fact he's out here saying congress needs to have more authority, it's kind of a slowdown message to the white house. they get this, they understand. the stage they're in now is trying to figure out what should we do with maliki?

should we get rid of him? i think we're a little off from air strikes because it may not work and because they know the public opinion is not there right now. so i think this conversation is going to be pushed back some and like i said before, a congressional vote is not going to pass on this and the white house knows it. >> and the other postscript quickly on that syria story last year is that the actual deal struck on chemical weapons, those weapons are basically all been destroyed. so that part of it did work out. anyway, we will see you both later in the show. still ahead, wendy davis talks to us about her uphill fight to win the texas governorship. first, house speaker john boehner says he plans to sue the president. the why, the house, and the really right after this break. [ male announcer ] we're the names you know in the places you want to be.

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one of the things i will be emphasizing in this meeting is the fact that we are not just

going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we're providing americans the kind of help that they need. i've got a pen, and i've got a phone. >> that was president obama back in january promising a year of action, how he was going to enact a second term agenda even if republicans continued to block him legislatively. several high profile executive actions later, republicans are now fate fighting back. on wednesday house speaker john boehner said he is introducing legislation to allow congress to sue president obama over his use of executive actions. >> the constitution makes it clear that a president's job is to faithfully execute the laws. and in my view the president has not faithfully executed the laws. >> boehner contends that the president is flouting the constitutional system of checks and balances. new white house press secretary josh ernest had this to say in response. >> the fact that they are

considering a taxpayer funded lawsuit against the president of the united states for doing his job i think is the kind of step that most americans wouldn't support. >> this is a graph of executive orders issued by presidents per days in office. that massive spike you see in the middle, that's fdr, franklin roosevelt. he spent the longest of any president in office but he also issued over 3,500 executive orders. you can see that fdr was preceded by about three decades of active use of executive orders starting with his cousin teddy roosevelt and then significant drop-off during the term of harry truman. to zero in on the last 40 years of executive orders per day, president obama is still the lowest. that includes his predecessor george w. bush. so what exactly is this all about? >> this is not about

impeachment. >> the hesitation that makes that sound bite resonate. joining me is matt lewis, a contributing editor for "the week" magazine and perry bacon, jr. is still with us. matt, you're sort of on the right here. my reading on this situation has been that john boehner was there in 1998 when the republicans impeached bill clinton. john boehner remembers that republicans were supposed to win big in that midterm election and they ended up losing seats and newt gingrich had to walk away as speaker. john boehner doesn't want his party impeaching this president and giving democrats an issue in the midterms so he's giving the base this. is that right or is that too cynical? >> i think it's cynical. look, first of all, it's not just about executive orders. it's about recess appointments, not the lawsuit, but i think the broader issue here. recess appointments, you have the obamacare mandates being unilaterally extended. so, you know, the individual mandate. there's really an issue of executive overreach, and it didn't start with barack obama. so i think it's appropriate to adjudicate this.

i think that, you know, over the -- >> but, matt, so i take that point but what about the timing though? why is it we just put the graph up there, why was what was okay for bush, okay for anybody before, why is it suddenly an animating issue? >> well, look, again i think if you just look at the executive orders, i don't think that barack obama has been especially egregious in terms of the number of them, but, again, when you put it in the context of recess appointments, signing statements, unilaterally changing deadlines that were in the lull of obamacare, i think you have a pattern. and i think this is a proper role of the courts, and we shouldn't be worried about barack obama. what about president marco rubio or president ted cruz or president hillary clinton? we've had this happen before. harry truman really overreached when he seized control of the steel industry, and the supreme court slapped him down. i think it would be healthy to clearly define what is appropriate for an executive

branch to do and to maybe rein in the power of the executive. >> i know perry wants to get in here. we should note john boehner in his announcement didn't specify what particular executive actions will be mentioned in this lawsuit. i guess that will come later. >> i'm actually not sure that's going to come later for this reason. i don't think this is about past executive orders, and i talked to boehner staff a little bit. the goal is about future executive orders. this is less of a lawsuit and almost more of a press release to the president saying we do not want to see any more executive orders. you have done too much of this. we're tired of it. also, executive action is different than executive order. an important distinction. the climate change revision, that was an executive action the president took, not an executive order but that covered a lot of ground, and that basically changed the power plan laws for every state in the country. also, this issue i think is really about immigration. the republicans are very worried that the president has already

changed deportation law for young illegal immigrants. basically the country is not going to deport young people. the talk is the president will expand that executive action and make more groups not eligible for deportation. republicans are very wary about that. this is a warning shot to the president saying, we're watching this immigration law battle very carefully. we don't want to see more executive orders on that. i think this is the context, this is why it happened now is because immigration is moving. immigration is already dead in congress. the worry is the president will change the law unilaterally and the republicans want to stop him from doing that. >> matt, go ahead. >> i support immigration reform and i'm for the dream act, but the question is whether or not a president can unilaterally decide whether or not to enforce a law that has actually passed appropriately. let's keep in mind, i think there's a tendency to have an ends justify the means mentality to say the dream act is good, i support it, therefore whatever it takes to get it done. let me remind you, an executive

order signed by fdr led to internment camps of japanese. i think it's proper -- >> i do want to ask you though, matt, quickly though, you say politically it shouldn't matter or anything, but, look, the things that president obama has been doing here, the high-profile executive actions, one of them is on emissions, if you look at the polling, he has two-thirds support there, not fighting doma. something that's getting popular with public opinion. deferred action for dreamers, not deporting the young undocumented in this country. again, wide public support there. in the court of public opinion when the republicans do this, is this one of these things that their base looks at and gets the heads nodding in the base but two-thirds of the country looks at it and says i like that the president actually did something about this. >> i think that's a valid point. i think the public likes a strong executive. the public likes probably executive overreach. therein lies the problem. i think what john boehner is doing may be a politically unwise move. it may not pan out well

politically. i actually support it based on principle, based on reining in the executive and sort of let's clearly define the proper role and the balance of power. you know, article two of the constitution, what are the powers that the president has. i think we have a real mission creep here of the executive branch. >> i want to thank perry bacon, jr. for joining thus morning. still ahead, the lion of lennox avenue squeaks by in his bid for a 23rd term. many people thought he couldn't do it but charlie rangel will be here live. first, the democratic front-runner for president is out on the road. how is it going so far? to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless. you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ]

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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ hillary clinton took her book tour to the bay area this week with a speech in front of a sold out crowd at the orpheum theater and a book signing the next day. if you were to drive a few miles south from the orpheum to san francisco international airport, then hop on a plane across the pacific to china, well, if you

got there you wouldn't be able to find a copy. her new book when you landed because according to hillary's publisher, that country has effectively banned the title. that wasn't the only clinton news involving china this week. federal disclosure reports show that since leaving the white house, bill clinton has made $104.9 million in speaking fees. the majority of that money coming from foreign appearances alone. many of those appearances just happen to be in china, japan, canada, the united kingdom. hillary clinton is still getting criticized for the price tag on her speeches. most recently by student leaders at the university of nevada las vegas who were unhappy with their school's decision to pay the former secretary of state $225,000 to speak at a fund-raiser. none of this helps dispel the current precampaign narrative surrounding hillary clinton. the idea that she might be out of touch with working americans struggling to make ends meet. the former president was quick to come to his wife's defense. >> she's not out of touch, and she advocated and worked as a

senator for things that were good for ordinary people. >> and even though hillary was smiling from the audience that day, she later made one thing very clear to pbs' gwen ifill. >> my husband was very sweet today, but i don't need anybody to defend my record. i think my record speaks for itself. >> her record is what hillary clinton wants everyone to focus on. her new book is focused on her time as secretary of state. she wants to define herself as the post-2008 hillary clinton. in the most recent nbc news/"wall street journal" poll 49% said a clinton presidency would represent a return to the past. as hillary clinton is zigzagging across the country, the first chapters of her political career continue to overshadow her future one. joining me, matt lewis, contributing editor with "the week." eleanor cliff is back. it's interesting, we say will the past overshadow hillary clinton and all that. it seems to me i have been noticing that there is a little bit -- they understand that and they want to use it to their

advantage by sort of saying, hey, the past, the 1990s, the boom time, the deficit coming down, all the jobs being created, compare that to the stagnant quote, unquote recovery we've had. past wasn't so bad. but we always talk in policy, that you have to win by running on the future. can you connect the past and future? >> it was a good past but most of the country realizes it's ancient history by the rapidity with which our politics move today. i think hillary clinton has less time to make up her mind about whether she's going to run at least to make it public because she has a responsibility to the democratic party if she's not going to run that democrats can -- >> when do you think we need an answer by? >> i think pretty soon after the november election, very early next year, because the book tour was really looking like the official launch of her campaign and not owning up to that is kind of too cute by half, and i think the problem with all of this, the finances that they've

made and how they're making it, the danger is that she comes out looking kind of too queenly, kind of haughty, that she loses likability with the american public or relatability with people. >> how do you look at -- 2008 we can we play all the things that went wrong. she walked into that campaign as the most overwhelming front-runner we have ever seen and didn't quite work out and now you're saying an even more overwhelming front-runner for 2016. the hillary clinton you're seeing right now and the hillary clinton trying to tackle these questions about her wealth and relatability and all of that, can you compare her to the hillary clinton you saw running for president in 2007-2008? is she different? has shea changed? >> the hillary clinton of 2008, she announced her candidacy in a web ad, basically said i'm in it in win. it was all about her, and i think the danger here is this is -- again, it's all about her

becoming a grandmother, how much money. they were dead broke and the legal bills they had to pay off. people want to know, well, what are your ideas? i think there's a lot of pressure on her to develop an economic vision that people can understand. now, it's not easy. i mean, i don't think barack obama has been very successful at doing it or at certainly at marketing it, so she's got to come up with something that's different from what her husband did and different from barack obama, and that can excite people. i think democrats like the fact that it's a woman who might break the glass ceiling, but that is kind of ho hum today. >> right. right now there's no domestic policy agenda. matt, sort of as a conservative voice here, looking at hillary clinton from a republican perspective, you know, still obviously the most likely democratic nominee if she gets in the race. we're not sure if she'll have an opponent. how are republicans looking at her right now knowing how sort

of the prohibitive favorite she looks like right now and watching this rollout. what are you seeing? >> a lot of glee and joy and fun. and i tell you the real key is that the media, you know, the media really didn't ever go after barack obama, and i think part of that was sort of historic, the first african-american president, but i think some of it was really obama's demeanor, which is the no drama obama thing where they just sort of dismiss, oh, matt, any criticism is like laughed out of the room, but there's something about the clintons that invites, you know, press attention and media scrutiny, and, you know, and maybe at some point bill clinton -- i think this really goes back to bill clinton, but for some reason it's fair game to make fun of the clintons and david letterman the other day was mocking hillary, how much money that she's made, and i think for conservatives that's the real

interesting thing is that, you know, we might actually have a situation here where there's a democratic candidate who faces a lot of scrutiny and mockery, and that's quite different and i would say quite welcome from the past. >> well, i want to pick up and i think there's an interesting point in there that you just made about sort of the media's attention to the clintons, the media's criticism of the clintons which i think has a lot to with in 2007-2008 she was the overwhelming favorite. if a media has a bias, often it's toward the underdog. she's the overwhelming favorite and it puts a target there. how is she holding up with this target on her back right now and if you think that's going to affect her decision about whether to run or not. we'll talk about it when we come back.

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...you have to leave the couch to believe. seize the summer with up to 40% off hotels from travelocity. i have no illusions. i probably have a better idea of what it takes both to win and to govern than, you know, many people who might choose to seek the job. >> hillary clinton with pbs' gwen ifill on wednesday night i that i that was.

no illusions here either, the polls are the polls. we can say it's been a little rough with how she's handled these wealth questions, the gay marriage question a few weeks ago. hillary clinton remains way, way ahead in the polls in the democratic side. in fact, the guy who was talking about challenginger, brian schweitzer, had his own problems, may not be able to challenge her. we were talking about the situation with the wealth questions. you were saying she needs to develop an economic agenda. you look at mitt romney, the 47% tape and then you look -- it was so easy to say his agenda is protecting the kind of people -- his kind of people. >> right. and republicans are looking at this assault on hillary as sort of payback for what happened to romney. now, they can go after somebody who is too rich on the democratic side, but her policies really are with the middle class and the poor in the country and she's really got to

get that across and turn this away from being about her and her lifestyle. right now she's running against herself basically even though she's theoretically not running. everybody assumes that she's in the race, and every word she says is going to be scrutinized. eventually she will run against someone else. she has to be careful that the populist strain in the country and the anger really about the obscene wealth of the tippy top earners in the country and the fact that everybody else is middle class has been left behind, there's genuine anger out there and republicans are learning how to tap into that. the tea party has to some extent. rand paul i think is positioning himself for a presidential run and what irony it would be if the clintons went in as sort of the democratic version of romney and the republicans had the populist area to themselves. i don't think that hillary is a natural populist. she's kind of a good girl from the midwest, but i think she can

find policies that can address those issues, and it's where her heart is and it's where her head is as well. >> and it's also weird the energy in a democratic party on issues like inequality. matt, it seems to me like when i look at the republicans in 2016, i kind of think the best thing republicans have going for them is that if you get past hillary clinton in the democratic side, there is not much of a bench there for democrats. so i wonder when i look at sort of -- i know there's a super pac attacking hillary on the right. is there a thought on the right that you can create -- that the conservatives can create so much sort of negative noise around hillary clinton right now that it might keep her out of the race? is that hope actually driving conservatives right now, keep her out? >> well, i think conservatives would be wise to assume that she runs, but even if you assume that she runs, you either beat her up and define her before the race begins or you keep her from getting in. and i think either way it's a win/win. you're right, i think that

hillary is, you know, this just behemoth juggernaut of a candidate and once you get past here, where do you go? not a lot of great -- not a great bench. but even if hillary runs, you are going to have a potential for republicans i think to win, and especially the age issue has been talked about. i think hillary can overcome it, but from an optics standpoint if you had someone like a marco rubio running, a bridge to the future versus a bridge to the past, it could almost be like 1996 in reverse. >> the bridge to the 21st century, bill clinton and bob dole. also democrats would say, hey, reagan was 70 and he won, 73 the second time. i want to thank matt lewis. up next, colorado is a red state that turned blue, very light blue, but could the fight over gun reform turn it back to red again. later we talk to wendy davis about her plans to change the shade of texas. stay with us. and now telcos using hp big data solutions

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a democratic governor who was touted as a national star is in danger of losing his job and the reason a all about guns. john hickenlooper is running for re-election. if you know about him it's probably because of what he did early last year. in a state that will never forget columbine, a deadly shooting at a movie theater followed by the rampage at sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut. there were cries for action after that and they were ignored in washington and in many state capitols across the country but not in denver where colorado's democratic state legislature delivered gun control legislation to hickenlooper's desk in early 2013 and he signed it. >> it's that simple. these high capacity magazines have the potential to turn killers into killing machines. >> but then came the backlash. colorado is a blue state, but it's a light shade of blue and a strong strain of rural l

libertarianism. they mobilized a recall campaign. last september they struck a blow. one of the law's architects, john morris, lost his recall election. so did another democrat who supported the law. and that's when you knew governor hickenlooper was going to be in trouble in 2014. which is probably why just a few weeks ago hickenlooper appeared before a group of sheriffs who are among the laws most vocal opponents and he seemed to backtrack on it. >> i apologize. i don't think we did a good job on any of that stuff. >> the meeting was recorded without hickenlooper's knowledge and he made even more politically damaging comments. >> i think a lot of people if they'd known how much come motion was going to come out of the high capacity magazines would have looked for something different or a different approach. one of my staff made a commitment to sign it, it got passed. no one in our office thought it would get through the

legislature. >> and this became big news. some likened it to mitt romney and the 47% tape. hickenlooper effectively disowning a landmark gun law that he'd signed. faced with this firestorm, hickenlooper sought to clarify and said he'd, quote, sign the bill again. hickenlooper got some more bad news this past tuesday. some colorado republicans held their primary to pick his opponent. democrats had been hoping that the gop would go with tom tancredo. they believed tancredo would scare off swing voters. but he lost the primary to bob bow cray. now that the gop has a fairly credible vehicle for the opposition that hickenlooper has kicked up with the gun law and with his equivocation on it. we've talked a lot about colorado's amazingly fast transition from red state to obama state, and hickenlooper is still the favorite to hold off a challenger, but could a gun

control backlash swing it back? we have john morris, the former state senate president we just talked about who led the fight for the gun law and who was recalled last year. thanks for joining us, senator. i have to ask you, you literally lost your career because of this legislation, a law banning high capacity magazines. you're the architect of it, you pushed it through, you lost your seat because of it. when you hear the governor who signed it going to the sheriff's organization and saying what we just played, what's your reaction? >> well, initially my reaction was anger just like everybody else, but, you know, two seconds later i knew that this is the john hickenlooper we all know and love and occasionally hate and then love again because it is what he is. >> so what is he? what was he saying there? >> he thinks out loud and he does it too much of the time frankly by his own admission in public. he tries to be very thoughtful and methodical. what is coming from this side?

what is coming from side? what are the pros, the cons, what are the arguments, what are we missing? then he makes a decision but he still like did we get it right? are there any new facts that have come to light, those kinds of things which again is very desirable and is part of why people love him because they really do believe that he actually doesn't have a preconceived idea of what he ought to do but there are certainly times like this one when what you're talking about is when you limit the capacity of magazine that means you only have so many bullets in your gun and when you run out you have to reload. so you're standing there with an empty gun. the bad guy standing there with an empty gun is a good thing. we want that to happen as frequently as possible. so, no, governor, you didn't make a mistake and as you suggested, he came out very strongly and said, yeah, yeah, yeah, i didn't make a mistake, i'd sign the bill again because you have to be for public safety. >> he also told that group, just quoting, he said if he had known this was going to divide the state so intensely, i think we would have thought twice about

it. your own experience -- >> and, of course -- >> what do you think about that? do you agree with that? >> and, again, i think that he's not thinking back as clearly to the fight that we had. i mean, number one, it didn't divide the state. 85% of the folks approve -- >> you lost your seat because of it. >> sure, because 80% of the people in my district didn't show up to cast a vote. you can't win a special election where everybody stays home and where only the bad guys actually show up to cast a ballot. we lost by 319 votes. no question, and we were disappointed by that, but at the same time as we said then and we can say again now, this is not a referendum or a recall on the laws. those laws are still on the booshti books, and the sheriffs and the others on the other side, the gun lobby, have done everything they can politically to try to create this idea that, oh, my god, this is totally divided the state which is nonsense. it hasn't. and then just this thursday denver district judge, federal

denver district judge, threw out the lawsuit that had been filed and took every argument and basically said, this argument is just nonsense. whether you agree with the law or not, whether it's good policy policy, that's not my concern. but it absolutely complies with the second amendment. doesn't come even close to the second amendment which is what we knew all along. there's a lot of loud in this debate, but there's not a lot of substance. >> so we'll see the most recent polls before the primary this week showed hickenlooper leading by a high single digit margin. this is a race to keep a close eye on. i want to thank former colorado state senate president john morse for taking some time. really appreciate that. still ahead, two of the biggest democratic names in the news this week, both of them will be talking to us in our next hour.

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filibustered for 11 hours on the floor of a texas snoot but how does wendy davis feel about what many consider to be an even tougher task, becoming the first democrat to win the race for governor in texas in two decades? she'll tell us how she plans to pull it off ahead. y (whispering) hi, uh we need a new family plan. (whispering) how about 10 gigs f data to share and unlimited talk and text. (whispering) oh ten gigs sounds pretty good. (whispering) yeah really good. (whispering) and for a family of four, it's $160 a month (impressed, breaks whisper mode) what! get outta here! (whispering) i'm sorry are we still doing the whisper thing? or? (whispering) o! sorry! yes yes! we'll take it. at&t introduces our best-ever family pricing. for instance, a family of four gets 10 gigs of data, with unlimited talk & text, for $160 dollars a month.

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tylenol® provides strong pain relief while being gentle on your stomach. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®. we've got a big hour still ahead of us, including the first anniversary of our filibuster interview with wendy davis. first, another big name is standing by to talk to us about this. you heard plenty about the mississippi runoff this week, but there was another huge, close, and contentious election last tuesday with charlie rangel, the long-time harlem avenue congressman, the lion of lennox avenue, holding off a fierce challenge winning by less than 2,000 votes. since he has no republican opponent in the fall, the win all but clears rangel to serve a 23rd term in congress but he had to campaign harder than ever to pull this one out. he also had to promise voters

that this will be it, that he won't run again after this. rangel was at the center of controversy four years ago when the house ethics committee found him guilty of 11 violations, including failing to pay some taxes and failure to report his personal income. he was reprimanded and lost the chairmanship of the house ways and means committee because of that. that controversy along with a serious illness nearly cost him his seat in 2012. there was speculation that this time his challenger would win outright, especially given the demographic shift that has transformed rangel's harlem district which was one the unofficial political capital of black america into a majority latino district. but rangel one by a slightly bigger margin this time. this was the scene at his victory party tuesday night. >> charlie rangel has been one of the most significant forces on capitol hill for decades and now he's going back for a

two-year victory lap. congressman, congratulations. that scene, i don't know if people got to see this. i was talking to you before the segment. that scene on tuesday night was so unusual because the standard thing in politics is the candidate waits upstairs at the hotel or wherever it is and they watch the results, get the phone calls. when it's time to come down and declare victory or concede, they do that. you came down an hour before and you're standing up there on stage and the tv is covering this locally and you're calling out precincts saying how did this precinct do? it was a different way of doing things. >> the honest answer is that it was more exciting down there with my supporters than being upstairs with a bunch of vips. so i felt that since no one upstairs knew what was going on and no one downstairs did and i didn't, why not work this thing out together? so i had no idea how different it would be. it just seems like the right personal and politically thing to do, to sweat it out together. but what happened, as you

pointed out, there was so many people i had to thank, so what do you do? you bring them up to the stage. i had no idea the stage wasn't for people. >> the stage almost collapsed. the stage actually fell down a couple inches. i want to ask you watching you on tuesday night, watching the scene, really seemed like you were in very high spirits. obviously you won the election. you seem in good spirits today. how does this one feel? you have run and won so many times before. does this one feel special to you? >> it does. mainly you said that i had to say i was going to retire. well, i didn't have to say it. the wife and i had decided a long time ago that we had to wrap this thing up and enjoy life oursds and elves and we in to do it. even the last year most of the people who were contenders asked me, we don't know this new district as well as you, so give us an opportunity to get to know all parts of the constituents, to raise the money, and get the

support. so this thing, i think the most emotional thing that came out is when i heard myself tell my wife, do you know that's the last time i'll be voting for myself, and it was a strange feeling, but the truth is i couldn't have wanted to begin or end my career better than it has. >> so is that something -- because i have seen politicians do this before. they say this is the last one, then they win, and then they say, maybe one more. is this definitely it? >> it is because once your job seems like work and the parties in washington have changed, i feel a political and moral commitment to follow the obama agenda, that's going to be over, i don't know how much influence the tea party will continue to have on the republican party, but if they want solidarity in leadership more than they want to get something done, this is not the workplace that i'd like to spend the rest of my life in.

so there are just so many reasons that -- and then, too, i have never had the opportunity to talk about anything exciting except politics, but when i got in a room by myself in intensive care for three months and it was a spinal infection and i realized dramatically the only people i really had was my wife and my kids and my grand kids, and they were not the priority they should have been, and so i got a real crazy opportunity to start a new life, and that is being planned even during these 2 1/2 years. so it couldn't be better. >> let me ask you this because i know there was a report in the homestretch of this campaign that some of your colleagues, some of your friends in the congressional black caucus had asked the white house, tried to get president obama to come in and endorse new this race. obviously carried your district so overwhelmingly, and he didn't do that, and he made a public

comment in 2010 when the ethics situation was going on saying he hoped you would retire back then. a lot of people said this stems back to back in 2007 when you had a choice, hillary clinton or barack obama, and you went with hillary clinton. is that a decision you look back at now and regret that at all? >> no. in politics you do what you think is politically correct, but you should add to it what you think is morally correct, and if a young guy from illinois was going to run against my senator and a woman i knew as first lady, of course i would make the mistake again and support who i thought would be the right person. >> did -- looking back then, did you think -- did you look at barack obama in 2007 and say, no, not going to happen -- >> before iowa, you know, i said what chutzpah. i had no idea who he was. as a member of the senate, he would come to attend the congressional black caucus meetings, never indicated that he immediately would become a

candidate for president. no. obama was a sleeper with most americans. this was a genius, a political genius, a guy with a capacity that never got a chance really to share it with everybody. that's why it was so close. i'm convinced that if we had known the capabilities of barack obama, i would have been able to talk with hillary clinton and say not this time, but i encouraged her to run. >> so you go back to washington now, and if you see the president, if you get a chance to talk to him at all, what would you tell him? >> you know, i have been with the president half a dozen times this year, and there's nothing -- i would like to believe that the president has enough on his hands to deal with, the middle east, the economy, getting some legislation through during this last three years, and i wouldn't be flattered if he came and told me that he's glad that i won. this is what you're supposed to

say to winners anyway, but i'm really not looking forward to congratulations from the president. i'm looking forward to getting something done during these last two years under his presidency. >> and i got to ask you this, too, before we run out of time here. you're saying, you're reiterating today, not going to run again in 2016 -- >> i don't know why that's such a big deal. >> let me ask you this. here is one reason i think it is, people look at your district and they say it is amazing how the demographics of harlem has changed. it was sort of the capital of black political america, the capital basically when you first came, and now the population is majority of latino. your opponent the last two elections coming very close would be first dominican american congressman. i know things have been very contentious right now but people are saying when you step aside in two years, he's sort of the natural successor. what do you think of that? >> i think that as much pride as people have in identifying with someone politically that talks like them, that speaks like them, that are born where they

are, there should be a sense of pride in doing it. but you have to be good, and it was abundantly clear that nobody but nobody denied that i wasn't the best candidate. even today as you and i talk. some that had supported me figured, as you said, i was going to lose. others wanted to be identified with someone that basically was unable to meet the challenge of what's going on in washington or know anything about it, was not prepared for it. but i truly believe that voters are sophisticated enough, as you see in the thad cochran case that's the other well-known primary, that people vote what they think is in their best interests, and it's up to a candidate to use everything that they have to show why they're the better candidate, not just saying you look like me, whether it's black or white or latin or not latin. you got to do more than that.

>> very quickly, do you have a successor in mind? do you have someone you -- >> no, i do have someone in mind, but it's not a person. it's not someone can be identified. it's someone that can gain the respect of this diversified district that is so beautiful in terms of color and cultures, but you just don't come from one part of the district saying i'll represent everyone because i have more numbers. yes, i intend to help any candidate to meet whomever they want in the district. the reason i had it so easy was that i have been there is long that every reapportionment, every redistricting, the lines just grew around me. so it's difficult for someone who just comes on the scene to say, everyone that voted for rangel will now have to vote for me. no, they have to go to the different communities and gain credibility and whomever that is would be a part of my legacy if i could get him or her elected regardless of where they were

born. >> all right. charlie rangel, congratulations. it was -- really, you ran a heck of a campaign this time. i think there were a lot of people counting you out but you showed them wrong. it was a really impressive victory. congratulations, good luck in washington the next two years. still ahead, the immigration crisis at the texas border is galvanizing politicians. does it mean it's bringing them together? plus a reality check on the effort of wendy davis to turn texas blue. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic.

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overwhelmed by the huge influx of undocumented immigrants who have made their way to the u.s. border from v central america, texas officials say they will begin flying hundreds of the imgrantmigrants san diego. last week they canceled those flights without saying why but as of this weekend they're apparently back on. nancy pelosi visited a border

facility in brownsville, texas, yesterday, just one example of how the humanitarian crisis has been a galvanizing event. conservatives look at the pictures coming out of texas and they say the borders need to be enforced more. while liberals look at the flood of undocumented children and want to pass legislation that would allow for eventual citizenship. they still have one thing in common. if there were a diagram of the activists fighting hard to see legalization take place in the conservative lawmakers who fiercely oppose reform, the overlap in the middle would be both sides are mad at president obama. in the last two days the president has ripped in republican lawmakers for opposing his economic agenda but we could have been referring to immigration reform. it was one year ago yesterday that the senate passed a measure that would provide sweeping immigration reform and it got 68 votes. a lot of republicans part of that 68. the victory prompted speaker john boehner to issue a challenge. he privately told a pro-reform group that if they could drum up

a lot of public support without prompting lots of vocal d demonstrations from the tea party and other opponents, he would take up the issue in the fall. this is what the crowd looked like when congressman steve king of iowa dressed in anti-immigration rally in richmond, virginia, only a smattering of people. this is the size of the crowd when pro-reform activists marched in washington. it's fair to say immigration advocates did win august, august of 2013. they kept up their end of that supposed bargain with john boehner, but as we all know, immigration reform in the house didn't happen and hasn't happened. it's not that members of both parties haven't tried. john boehner called for the legalization of undocumented immigrants on paper. the gop retreat was described as a major shift. as recently as this month, politico reports that florida republican mario diaz has been trying to drum up support for

his colleagues for a bill. just yesterday in chicago pro-reform advocates demonstrated out the district office of congressman dan lapinski but the rally came after this happened. house majority leader eric cantor being kicked out of congress. he became a short -- he lost his primary and then lost his leadership position as well because he failed to fend off a tea party challenger a few weeks ago. it's debatable whether immigration was the cause of all those votes against him but it definitely guaranteed this. immigration reform will not happen before the midterm election in november. at least not legislatively. here to discuss this, joineded by congressman luis gutierrez. that last point, let me start with this. the story of these undocumented children sort of intersects with the push for immigration reform because until all this happened with the children, we'd been hearing that, okay, if congress doesn't take up immigration

refo reform, the president will take executive action. now he has republicans up in arms saying there's a crisis at the borders, it's been caused by president obama's deferred-a, it's been caused by a lack of enforcement and they're trying to make it tougher to take executive action. do you think that's happening at the border will affect whether the president does take executive action? >> it doesn't help, steve, right? i mean, we can't be tone deaf to what's happening on the border. it makes democrats when we see a humanitarian crisis and we say put the children in a safe place as though we're for open borders. we're not. as a matter of fact, all of our legislation would properly secure the border and make it more secure than ever before, but having said that, look, i think the president is going to do the right thing. he's going to do the right thing by the children. he's going to do the right thing in this humanitarian crisis. i want to say imagine after that judiciary hearing this week in which republicans talked about children bringing diseases, bringing drugs, being part of a criminal enterprise, in which

they mocked them, and i mean, it was really chilling -- >> so when you say the president is going to do the right thing, specifically what are the actions you think he's going to be taking and you want him to take? >> look, remember, we've had this conversation before in dialogue with the president. he said he couldn't do it, he couldn't do it, but then in june of 2012 he freed over 600,000 dreamers who today have work permits, social security cards, and in most states except the morons in arizona have driver's licenses and are becoming more and more part of our society. i think the president can take an action to say, you know what? why don't we let the parents of those dreamers stay. they inculcated those values in those young people. there are 5 million american citizen children and there's a "huffington post" report just this week that said 72,000 american citizen children lost their moms and dads due to deportations last year, 72,000 american citizen children. that's another group.

and then we have soldiers. there are so many people, steve, that the president could help, and i believe the president is going to be wide and broad and deep in his executive action. he said in the state of the union he was going to use his pen. >> the further context for this and we talked about terlier in the show is the lawsuit that speaker john boehner wants now against the president on executive action which, as perry bacon was saying a few minutes ago, the idea maybe is to have a chilling effect on executive action immigration. a second ago the rhetoric of republicans about this situation on the border, if the president does what you're saying, what kind of response is that going to generate from the right and is that going to spill over to public opinion? >> right. here is what i think. look, steve, you in the opening clearly established that at every time and every forum and every challenge that the pro-immigrant community, we've won, and we've met and exceeded

the challenge. the fact is the american public is with the pro-immigration. you have a small group of tea party people, a small segment of the republican party which has stopped being what the american people want, which is to fix our broken immigration system and put this illegal broken immigration system with a legal immigration system. i think the president of the united states should act and should act boldly. from my point of view, on the one hand you have republicans who are criminalizing children at the border. they're saying they want to now repeal the law that allowed dreamers, 600,000 of them to legalize their status. they're saying they're going to sue the president of the usa. i say bring on the lawsuit. i say we elected barack obama to be our champion, to be our leader, and he can lead on this issue through executive action, and he should. and i believe that he will. look, i mean, let's do it broadly. let's do it wide. let's help the 11 million people. >> very quickly i want to ask you one more thing.

i'm told on this subject one of the things that bothers the president maybe more than anything else is that reform advocates who call him the deporter in chief, that term has been thrown around and the idea is that the white house strategy of building political support potentially for reform is to be hard on enforcement for the last several years. what would your message be to pro-reform advocates who use that term? is it fair and what would you tell them? >> number one, i understand, and when people say that i understand, and i think it is a fair statement to make. having said that, i think we're in a different time right now, steve. this last thursday i went and i gave a speech on wednesday. we had a press conference on thursday where we said, look, the pro-immigration movement keeps getting tied down by many of my friends and colleagues in the house of representatives and they keep saying if you do anything executively through executive fiat, we're not going to negotiate with you. negotiate what? you make a proposal as you

indicated in your opening last january and then you take it away. every challenge we have met. you said, oh, we want to do it piecemeal. we said okay. they said we don't want the senate bill. we said okay. they said everybody can't become a citizen right away. we didn't leave the table. what more do we have to do? 1,000 people will be deported today. there are children being left without parents. the devastating effect and everywhere i go across this country people don't tell me move on to legislation. they say have the president take action to stop the deportation and the devastating effect on our community, and i think everyone across america understands that. >> all right. i want to thank congressman luis gutierrez of illinois. appreciate you getting up this morning. up next, we travel from the texas border to dallas to the texas democratic convention so wendy davis can tell us how she plans to overcome a 12-point deficit in her fight to become governor of texas. and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive and they're them. -yes. -but they're here.

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texas state senator wendy davis laced up her pink sneakers and filibustered for 11 hours in an effort to stop legislation limiting access to abortion clinics in the state. two weeks after that filibuster the bill passed in a special session. but it did rocket wendy davis to national prominence. soon she found herself drafted by democrats into this year's race for governor. it's an open seat race with perry leaving office after 14 years. on friday just two nights ago, davis formally accepted her party's nomination at the texas democratic state convention. she's joined by a diverse slate of candidates up and down the democratic ticket. for year democrats have been talking about turning texas blue. this as the state's population becomes increasingly hispanic. obama campaign veterans are working on mobilizing new voters and expanding the lector rate but it's still an uphill battle.

a democrat hasn't been elected to statewide office in texas since 1994, that's 20 years ago. the midterm political climate of 2014 favors the gop. polls show davis behind attorney general greg abbott. he's the republican candidate, by a hefty 12 points. but if texas is going to turn blue, a real long shot at least for this election, it's the 6,000 party dell grats and activists who came together this weekend in dallas who are going to be leading the charge. we sent msnbc's crystal ball to the contention floor to find out how they're kick starting the lone star state back into play for the party of lbj. >> reporter: there are a whole lot of fired up dems here who think something very special is happening this year. >> i ain't no pushover, i ain't no east coast liberal, i ain't no west coast democrat. i am a grandmother that is from the barrio and i'm a texas democrat. >> when mr. abbott said he'd

veto the texas equal pay act, he's trying to take us back to yesterday. we don't iron the pants anymore. we wear them. >> great energy, particularly among women. in fact, everyone has been remarking on that. >> reporter: i'm here with kim, and she's decked out from head to toe. she has the iconic wendy davis shoes. >> you finally have the campaigns and other groups that are doing the hard block-to-black, person-to-person work of organizing in such a large state. >> when i go to amarillo and there are over 250 people that show up, it's because we have folks on the ground there. >> the single and largest issue impacting the latino community in texas is that we are 38% of the population and we need to start acting like it. >> this hope of turning texas blue is very real here. there are delegates who are excited to think it's possible

here. there is no question that texas will turn blue. the only question is when, and the smart guys looking at the numbers, the realists, say it could be another four, six, eight years. >> it's been 20 years since a democrat has been able to win statewide in texas, as i'm sure you are well aware. what does it look like to get it victory in november? >> it looks like this room, and this room is replicated in living rooms and campaign offices all over the state. it looks like people, people who are excited and enthusiastic about turning out in an election when they've been staying home. >> and joining us from dallas is msnbc's crystal ball. and in us a jim moore, co-author of "bush's brain." the democrats in texas meeting this weekend, they have that convention. here is how "the new york times" is writing about the race. the headline is for wendy davis,

filibuster goes only so far in race to be governor for texas. a year after her filibuster pumped her up into the galvanizing candidate texas democrats have not had for decades, she seems very much dragged down to earth, dwarfed by the perception the democrats chances of ending the republican domination of texas remains slim. those are the national expectations. we have the poll which has her down 12 points. midterm is expected to favor the republicans this fall. with all those factors at work, what are you picking up on from talking to people down there? do they look at this and say we can win this november or is it more let's make a statement this november about the future? >> well, the activists of the convention, they believe 100% that they can win and what they were telling me is they have a deep faith in their field operation. you have battleground texas set up there. they told me they have 20,000 volunteers on the ground so they feel like something really special is happening. and what they say about the polls is that, you know, they're not polling the people that

we're talking to. we've got this energy behind us that they're not seeing, they're not picking up on, and those folks who traditionally wouldn't vote in a midterm, they're going to turn out for wendy davis. so they definitely -- they believe they can win. they believe wendy can live. they believe the lieutenant governor candidate who is very strong and gave a fiery speech on the floor, they believe she can win because the dpemocrats are more broadly representative of the diverse population in texas. you saw wayne slater in the piece. to say it's an uphill battle i think is a bit of an understatement but what's important that's happening here is that they really are rebuilding the party from the ground up. they really are putting people on the ground to build for the future, so even if they can't get it done this november and the odds are long, i think that they are excited about being able to revitalized the party. another thing they told me, steve, is this convention this year had as many delegates and

as much energy as the convention in 2008 when you had barack obama and hillary clinton. so definitely a lot of fire in the belly. one other thing i grabbed for you that i thought you would like is the difference between the republican convention and the democratic convention as told through footwear. if we've got that picture, we've got the democrats have the pink sneakers. there were lots of folks sporting the iconic wendy davis pink sneakers. and then you have on the republican side a woman with a gun there in a holster, a ron paul button, and guns don't kill people, abortion clinics kill people. so very different parties there. >> the sneakers look more comfortable, i'll say that. >> that's a good point. they've got that going for them. >> jim, i'm reading through the platform here that texas democrats adopted at their convention this weekend. it goes after what it calls, quote, targeted attacks on women from the perry administration and from republicans in texas and also, quote, violence

against the very souls of lgbt people and this idea of repa reparative therapy. but, jim, i wonder when you look at the platform that democrats have adopted that wendy davis is running on so closely identified with that abortion battle and you look at texas as a state, it's more cultural liberalism texas democrats are going for. where is the state as a whole on those cultural questions? >> well, i don't think it's there yet, and i think that that's been a part of the problem for wendy. you probably know if you've looked at the polls that her negatives are way up there, and she has done a lot of attacking. that's what her campaign has been about to differentiate her from greg abbott. so when you attack, obviously some of those negatives attach to you. that's been a problem for her. early on, steve, what we saw was that the two big issues everybody knows about abortion, but then she picked up equal pay for women, and she picks up this

persona among texas conservative men as being almost a women's candidate and so shea pi picks brand that's difficult as a candidate to get out from under. then on the issues, if you looked at her website last week and under the list of issues, the two biggest issues in this state are probably immigration and health care, and those weren't even on her website. there was no policy statement on either of those issues. she first addressed those publicly in an economic speech, a very well received and broadly read reaching sort of economic speech last week, and she touched on immigration. she touched on medicaid and the expansion of medicaid which would probably bring 1.5 million voters to her side in the state of texas the more she campaigned about it. so i think that she is a very excited candidate as is letitia. it's something new for the democrats to have these two type of dynamic individuals at the top of the ticket, but it isn't there yet.

they're just outnumbered still in this state. >> we'll pick this up on the other side. more to talk about here. $20 million, wendy davis is going to have $20 million at least for this campaign, a staggering sum of money. we'll talk about if not now, when. more on wendy davis and texas right after this. t legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. don't wait for awesome... totino's pizza rolls... ...gets you there in just 60 seconds. are the largest targets in the world, for every hacker, crook and nuisance in the world. but systems policed by hp's cyber security team are constantly monitored for threats. outside and in. that's why hp reports and helps neutralize

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this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" back talking about wendy davis, the battle for texas 2014. kryst krystal, you showed those sneakers. it speaks to what the passion that wendy davis has stirred up from a segment of the democratic base here. very unusual i think for a candidate for governor inform a state like texas or any state for that matter. if this is not the year, if she falls short this november, what is the future for wendy davis? >> well, that's a great question, and to your point, steve, you know, her filibuster has sparked this transformation in the democrat party here. one staffer was telling me, they went from having five staff members of the democratic party here to having about 70.

so dramatic transformation, and i think the question for the democratic party and for wendy davis is can they sustain past this election because as wayne slater from "the dallas morning news" was telling us, eventually texas will be in a place where the work has been done, the voters have been registered, they've been mobilized, and it really could become blue. so i don't think it's out of the question to think that if she can't get through this time maybe fours from now if you're able to sustain the sort of attention, the energy, the fieldwork on the ground, she could take another crack at the apple. >> jim, in the report wayne slater there says maybe four, maybe six, maybe eight years, maybe wendy davis a few years from now. i have heard some of the data experts, some of the number experts pin the year at which texas will finally be competitive for democrats more like 2028, late 2020s. you're down there, what's your sense of when that sort of turning -- flipping point is, tipping point. is that the term, tipping point, yeah. >> it's a demographic certainty. we know it's going to happen.

the projections are anywhere from 4 to 10, 15 years but we really don't know. i think the "x" factor in this is obviously the battleground in texas, get out the vote kind of thing and the voter registration, but we have had these kinds of efforts in this state before and those voters simply didn't turn out. southwest voter registration project registered a number of people but they did not turn out in meaningful ways at the polls. i want to stipulate here that i still think that wendy might be able to pull this off, but it's going to take a pivot of some kind at this point to sort of reinvent her campaign. much of the language, i'm going to sound too much like a political consultant here, but the language of her campaign is about fight. it's about defeat. it's about stop these guys. and texans are tired of this. my sense is, and i have been all over this state since the mid-70s writing about political politics, and my sense is the message the state wants to hear is one of unifying. you can't just say i'm going to

invest in schools. we've been hearing that since '68, and it hasn't really happened in the way that people want it to. so i think that it's still possible for her, but i think it requires a sort of rebranding of her campaign and her image at this point. >> and steve, just quickly, one thing they take a lot of heart in is the thad cochran victories and david brat victories that the pollsters weren't expecting. >> i want to thank krystal ball and jim moore for joining us. still ahead, the major fight over the minimum wage makes it to the minor leagues of professional baseball. that's next. will you help us find a new house for you and your brother?

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families. you can argue you will have as much fun as a chattanooga lookouts game as you will at a yankees game. besides the yankees won't have a liposuction give away. not every minor league player is smiling. a former minor leaguer named garrett brushhouse has filed a lawsuit saying they they paid them less than the minimum page and denying them overtime. he said he worked six or seven days a week when the giants drafted him ten years ago. worked nine or more hours a day and earned $1,100 a month but only during the season. he said the base salary for major leaguers has gone up more than 2,000% while it's only gone up 75% for minor leaguers. so is this just how it works? the dues you have to pay if you have the talent and ambition and the dreams of one of the gigantic big league paychecks or

do they have a case that they deserve a bigger cut of the major league pie? garrett is here. he joins us now. welcome to you. so i guess i'll just hit you with what is probably a question you get all the time and i think a lot of fans think of when they look at issues like this, but a fan might look at this and say, yeah, minor league probably kind of stinks to be a player there, probably don't get paid that much and you got to work really hard, but those the dues you pay, the price you have to pay to get a chance that i as a fan dream of having but never have. >> let's be clear, the minor leaguers should be a prove ground, there's no doubt about that, and the major league owners will tell you that they want these kids to be hungry, but, unfortunately, the state of it is that the salaries are so low the minor leaguers have a hard time even living at all. >> you were saying $1,100 a month if you work that out to an hourly figure, what were you getting paid? >> you're talking $4 or $5 an hour.

most minor leaguers get to the park at 2:00 for a 7:00 game. there until 10:30, 11:00. you're doing that seven days a week in the typical week. minor leaguers only get around eight days off for the entire summer. the typical week is seven days a week, not six days a week. you're talking often 60-hour weeks. if you add travel, maybe 70-hour weeks. plus there's training obligations during the off-season, training obligations during spring training. they aren't paid during spring training. >> how would this work in terms of increasing -- i look at minor league baseball and i compare it to major league baseball and i think of like the pawtucket red sox and there's no big tv deal for the pawtucket red sox. there's 35,000 at fenway. you're lucky if there's 3,500 at mccoy stadium. where does the money come from to be playing players a lot more? >> so the major league teams play the minor league salaries at all times. the minor leaguers are under contract with the major league teams.

the major league teams pay the salarie salaries. major league baseball is an $8 billion industry. revenue is increasingincreasi o exponenshially. to save these major league teams quite a bit of money and if you just ree invested that into the minor league salaries, the solution is already there. >> what kind of solution are you talking about? >> so, currently, the majority of players are making less than $7,500 per year. well, if you just doubled that, sthts that's not a huge amount of money. but it would go a long ways towards helping these guys live a little bit better. this ties in directly with something you talk about on your show all the time. the huge wage disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom. >> and that exists in baseball. if you look at the highest paid

major leaguer and then the lowest paid single or double a minor league player, probably a huge gap. so, what are the chances, i mean, you've lived the minor league life and you know a lot of people that did. what are the chances of somebody playing minor league and making it? >> 40 rounds in the major league baseball draft. every year they're bringing in 1,000, 2,000 players and 40% are latino players signed outside the draft. 95% of the guys are never making it to the major leagues. these guys still have rent to pay, they still have a lot of times they went to college and then they had to take out student loans and still have student loan bills to pay, as well. very hard to make those payments on the salaries they're making. >> interesting, we talk about college athletes all the time and labor issues coming up and a, like you say, part of a broader issue.

thank you for taking some time today. what should we know today? our answers right after this. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪ my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪

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all right, time to find out what our guests think we should know, xement we don't have guests in the plural. we have a singular. garret, what do you think we should know for the week ahead? >> throw a shout out to my city of st. louis. they just issued gay marriage license. the attorney general already sued to block that. that will be the next round of court battals and something to watch. >> we bring a lawyer from missouri on and that's going to be, you know, we had indiana and utah and now a court fight setting up in missouri and the question that hangs overall, is it going to go back to the supreme court? thanks for the insight on the labor issues, as well. thank you for joining us. we'll be back next weekend saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. up next is melissa harris-perry.

just what is a multi-millionaire candidate supposed to do? that's melissa harris-perry. she's coming up next. thanks for getting up with us this morning and we'll see you next week. this is interesting. it says here that a woman's sex drive increases at the age of 80. helps reduce the risk of heart disease. it seems that 80 is the new 18. grannies, bless your heart, you are bringing sexy back! eat up. keep heart-healthy. live long. for a healthy heart, eat the 100% natural whole grain goodness of post shredded wheat. doctors recommend it.

this morning, my question. who knew that after swedish meatballs and $200 couches ikea could give us another reason to cheer. the king james' version of professional sports. how lebron is redefining the game. the ncaa ruling that could change everything. but, first, the perennial, political pitfall. we call it the wealth gaffe.

good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. i already sent my letter this week, but i just wanted to say, dear hillary, oh, my, i know you didn't mean to do it. but in your interview with diane sawyer you waited into the quick sand thwhen you said this. >> we came out of the white house not only dead broke but in debt and we had no money when we got there and we struggled to piece together the resources for mortgages for houses, for chelsea's education. you know, it was not easy. >> now, when secretary of state, former secretary of state says in debt. she is telling the truth. foreclosure disclosure document