road for me at times, but, you know, i just want -- i want to just use my story in a positive way. ♪ freedom welcome back. i'm meteorologist kate parker bringing you an update on hurricane arthur. as it nears landfall in north carolina as a category 2 hurricane, winds of 100 miles an hour. this is expected to continue to hug the east coast. but the good news is the track takes it far enough offshore we'll see somish shoes but mostly in the capes. possibly a little beach erosion.

♪ it just doesn't make sense. i'm telling you now, i think he's a liar. i'm telling you, i think you're a liar. >> i didn't do nothing. i didn't do nothing. >> the most difficult part of this case we knew we had going into it was the fact that there was a written statement and that there was a videotape.

demonstrating certain things involving his child. >> to me, it's probably the most critical single piece of evidence in this trial. >> i can't take the pressure anymore. it's building, building, i haven't had a job since february. >> i know the circumstances under which confessions are typically obtained. i've been doing this long enough to know that there is a fairly high incident of false confessions. >> and let that aggression build up. >> you physically have the defendant throwing a binder as if it was his son. i knew that this is important

evidence. >> show me how hard you threw him on that bed. >> we knew that there was an injury to a child and we didn't know how it occurred, and there were six other children and we didn't want anything to happen to them either. so child protective services decided to take them. >> part of our job was to stand by while they removed those six children and we wanted to talk to adrian about what would happen to matthew. >> we called our chief of detectives and the chief says, if you're going to talk to him, i would like you to bring him down to the station and talk to him on video. >> the room has a desk in it, and the camera is a little plastic bulb with an antenna sticking out of the ceiling. you would not know it's there unless we told you. within a few minutes, we just

forgot about the camera. >> i would never do that. >> the doctor said it wasn't a fall. >> he didn't really seem like his son was in the hospital on the verge of dying. it didn't really seem like he was very concerned about that. >> i believe the first person we spoke to of some authority was a dr. edge. i asked him what happened, and his words to me was, somebody murdered this child. >> he explained that this injury was a high impact injury, similar to a motor vehicle crashing at 60 miles per hour. >> he said it's like -- it's a very hard hitting, quick stoppage. he said it doesn't happen from falling down, but slamming them into something very fast and very hard. >> do you remember anything in the last few days where anything could happen where that -- you

said the baby was sick and been crying a lot. >> yeah, the baby was. it progressed over friday to saturday. i did tell you about that. i'm not lying. >> we started to think that adrian thomas had done something to this child. it was definitely our main focus. >> i don't think he would do it on purpose. i don't think you would hurt the baby on purpose. >> that's what i'm saying. >> i ain't saying anybody did it on purpose. >> when we're speaking to you, we're of course lying. we want you to tell us the truth. so we're going to say anything to get you to tell us the truth. so we give them the out. could it have happened that you dropped the baby and the baby hit the back of the crib. we were trying to explain to him that's what a father of six people could have done, because he's exhausted. >> i didn't drop no baby.

i would know if i dropped the baby. >> what about walking around with the baby in your arms like this? >> who walks with a baby like that? >> who could have done it, you tell me? >> we need to figure out how this could have happened in your care. as far as your other son hitting matthew -- >> i'm not -- i could have bumped him going into the crib, but never out of anger. >> i wasn't sure what he told me caused the injury and i wasn't sure i was going to get that information at that point. >> normally when we take a statement, we'll write the statement and have them read it over and sign it. what that does is lock him in

and say this is how it could have happened. and none of those examples held water to what the doctor said at all in the medical center. >> i can't imagine how you must feel, you know? if you think you need to talk, we can get you some help. >> at that point, we thought maybe we should send him to speak to a specialist, because he did make the comment he wanted to hurt himself. >> when do you think you want to do that? >> i won't speak to anybody. >> i feel real bad, you know? >> he slept approximately an hour and a half. here we have a man subject to

this overwhelming, catastrophic stress. without sleep, depressed. he has a baby in his mind still in the hospital at death's door. >> he didn't see surprised to see how when he came out. he appeared to be in pretty much the same condition as he was the night before when we first met him. >> i can't imagine how you felt. you haven't worked since february, seven kids, wife probably telling you, why ain't you got a job yet. right, man. it's right there. what's holding you back, adrian. i'm not going to arrest you tonight, all right?

if i wanted to arrest you, i could. i don't want to arrest you, i want to get you help. >> all detectives have strengths. they want to interview someone, but an hour and a half into it, they're done. i'm actually someone thatky interview someone for hours and hours. >> you also admitted that you cause the injury. did you or did you not mean to cause the injury? >> no. >> so who dropped the baby in the crib, was it intentional? was it intentional or an accident? >> an accident. >> so you threw the baby on the bed saturday night. >> yeah. we're trying to build a relationship here. >> you're lying to me. >> you're saying it was intentional.

>> here. throw that like you threw the baby. here's the bed right here. start thinking about them kids crying all day and all night, your mother-in-law nagging you and your wife causing you a loser. show me how you threw that baby on your bed, all right? show me how hard you threw him on that bed. that's how you did it? all three times you did it just like that? >> yeah. >> the police tactics were something we were concerned about. there was some trickery and deceit. that didn't trouble me professionally, because i know the law tolerates that. the law allows it. if it's a generally accepted interviewing technique. during the day, we generate as much electricity

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my solemn promise, and i haven't lied to you tonight, when we are done here, we are bringing you home. >> the police being dishonest, that was certainly something that was a concern, how is the jury going to view the confession? >> we're not going to arrest you tonight. that's not what we're here to do tonight. >> were they going to maybe give less credit to the confession of adrian thomas after this? >> he's a little boy. he's gentle. he's easy. everyone at home knows that. he's a good boy. i know he didn't to what they say he did. >> adrian wrote a lengthy statement detailing what happened before and after the infant's death. in it, he admits to violently throwing the 4-month-old into the crib. >> we dispute here and now that adrian thomas caused the death of that boy.

>> after determining that this was a case where we needed to hire an expert in false confessions, immediately the name of the doctor came to mind. >> i study confessions in the united states, from florida to alaska. that became my principal area of work and has been for 25 years. this one is particularly ugly, but it's only the shade of ugliness that differentiates it from lots of others i've seen. >> when i hear of the interrogation, that brings you back to the old cop days where somebody has a white light hanging over your head and asking you questions that you better answer. >> police interrogation in this country has been transformed over the last 80, 90 years. this was a time when the principal method that police

used was called the third degree. that literally meant beating a confession out of a suspect. the supreme court handed down cases making it white clear that the tortureous practices were unacceptable in america. and this ultimate hi forced police to find a new way to interrogate. >> through extended research and years of experience, john reid and associates has developed a nine-step interrogation process. step one, the positive confrontation. >> we've been at some interrogation schools and how to get confessions. i went to that one. it was a two-day course. but you still have to be able to talk to people. and me and adam work well together and we can go with the flow, kind of make things up as we go along. >> i did a one-day seminar a few years back, and you pick up some

pointers here and there. but to be honest with you, i don't plan ahead of time what my approach is going to be. i just do it. >> the baby was running a slight fever. >> the heart of the reid method is to put somebody in a position in which they're given a choice between two alternatives. one is much worse than the other. so in developing that choice, they do what some people call minimizing. they use soft language. they describe what happened in the least offensive terms. they also will suggest that there's a reason for why this happened. >> when things happen in bars, they're not planned. what they are is they're spur of the moment. somebody goes in, they have a couple too many cocktails. next thing you know, somebody makes a wisecrack and bang, something happens. >> somebody is looking at this 4-month-old baby with a fracture

in the back of the skull and they're going to think you did it on purpose. >> why would you do that? >> i don't know. >> the way in which this part of the interrogation goes, the creating in the sense of an individual they have all the power is by the interrogator introducing what i refer to as evidence ploys. an evidence ploy is any statement which, if it were true, would link the person to the crime. >> there's a fracture in the back of the skull, okay? and that's not something that happens -- i just doesn't happen without someone being involved and someone knowing that it happened. are you following me? >> yeah, but i -- >> however that -- however it happened, somebody knows. >> the interrogator will suggest the scenario for the crime and will also make it clear that if this is the way it happened, you can go home at the end of the

day. >> if you tell us that accidently you caused this injury last night or the night before, we're still going to drive you home tonight. >> that's the magic word, accident. and he keeps putting in, and it was an accident. and it was an accident. and it was an accident. >> do you think that if you accidently caused this injury that we're going to arrest you, do you think that, yes or no? >> yes. >> i'm telling you we're not going to, okay? >> if we lie to you, you can use that against us. >> do you know the difference between you walking in and picking up a baby and saying i hate this baby and throwing this baby on the ground, and i'm frustrating, i haven't worked in seven months, this baby won't stop crying. sltz that sounds like a good court case, but i didn't do it. >> did your wife tell you something about that? >> the next move is to say, well, there are only two adults in the house when the child

walls injured. if it wasn't you, it was your wife. >> this accident was caused by either you or your wife or some adult. >> you'll do whatever we have to do to get them to tell the truth. we will tell them it happened to our own child just to get them to tell us the truth. >> who could have done it? >> i don't know. >> grabbed that baby by the shoulders and smacked down on something and fractured his skull? >> i don't know. >> what it comes down to, man, if you didn't accidently harm your child, then your wife did, all right? then your wife did. >> i'll tell you what, my wife is a good wife. i'm not going to lie to you, i don't leave my wife -- i have no idea that my wife did that.

you know what i'm saying? but if it comes down to it, i'll take the blame for it, because i didn't -- listen, i didn't do it, but if it come down to it, i'll take it for my wife so she won't go to jail. >> if he's saying he didn't do it, his wife must have done it. when we said that to him hoping to get a rise out of him. >> i'm saying i will take the fall for my wife, because i've got a good wife. >> take the fall. >> i didn't do it. >> you can't just say i'm going to take the fall for my wife. tell us how it happened. >> i don't know. >> then you can't take the fall for your wife. >> but adrian can't tell them what happened. and they don't seem surprised by that. they display nothing that suggests that they have any understanding that you can coerce a false confession from someone who is ignorant about

the crime that you can't get blood from a stone. >> i really believe my wife didn't do that. i know for a fact, because i didn't do it. what i'm saying is, maybe it could have happened in my care, possibly. sltz that's when adrian came around a little bit and took some of the outs we had given him. maybe the baby did fall. >> he was crying. i did bump his head putting him in the crib. >> you think you bumped his head hard enough to cause an injury? >> i might have. >> if you can get that person to say, well, i might have held him a little hard, because you're suggesting that, and you're structuring that as a way out, you've now found a crack in the wall. >> we want to talk to you again tomorrow to see if we can jar any memories. >> if you can find that crack in the wall, you can stick something in it and bang on it and widen the crack and try to

develop it. >> can we talk to you again tomorrow? >> yeah, we can talk about it tomorrow, too. i'm not going to skip town or nothing. i'm just saying i didn't do nothing wrong. >> i don't think you did anything wrong either. so your rates won't go up just because of a claim. no matter what comes your way, your home protects you. ...protect it back allstate home insurance from an allstate agent.

s this case had many holes in it. first of all, there is no skull fracture. a survey was tone on the child's body. there's not one broken bone on this child's pbody, no signs of

bruising. >> you have dr. edge, this child has been murdered. is that science or zelltry this >> i'm not sure he said it was a skull fracture. and the next day it was determined there was no skull fracture. so that was somewhat troubling so it gave ammunition to the defense to challenge the accuracy of the prosecution medical testimony. >> this is how i defend criminal cases. i tried to figure out what really happened. so i picked up the phone and i called a doctor who was a neuro pathologist. >> i guess i need to define pathology. it's the study of disease. what it looks like under the

microscope, how it does its dirty business. so i looked a t the microscopic slide and there was obviously an infection present. so i was very interested to see what, if any organisms could be found in the specific area. and that requires a special stain, and that enabled me to then say yes, these infected areas are loaded with a bacteria form. the nature of the infection, it's extent and that's the cause of death right there. >> i did a little research and found out who was the man, the physician, pediatric diseases and that's dr. klein, a world class expert on pediatric infectio infectious diseases. >> that's no doubt this child died because of overwhelming

sepsis, which is a clinical term which implies there's a systemic infecti infection. the history provided by the mother is the child had been ill with vomiting, diarrhea, but on the morning of september 21, the mom had observed the baby at 6:00 and 8:00, there appeared to be respiratory distress and she called the emts. when the child was first seen in that samaritan hospital, in the differential diagnosis, sepsis was prominent. and the appropriate steps were taken. culture of blood was obtained. child was started on appropriate antibiotics. when the child was transferred to albany medical center, the physician's focus changed from infection to child abuse. unfortunately, in matthew's case, he proceeded to

deteriorate. he dropped his blood pressure with a very white low blood cell count of 1,000. failure to maintain stability of temperature. failure to maintain oxygen saturations. all reflections of overwhelming infection. sepsis, and septic shock. in fact, the blood culture taken at samaritan hospital in the early morning hours of september 21 was only identified after the child had died. >> eureka, this is jerome klein, he's published 967 pieces on infectious diseases, he's the man. there isn't one word of sepsis in the autopsy report. >> i think those who observed the events of this unfortunate disease will bring their own minds to the facts.

but the biology of disease is based on factual information. so we have information about what the culture of the blood revealed. we have information that the bone marrow was suppressed. and it could be only suppressed by overwhelming sepsis. >> the allegation of abuse or possibility of abuse comes in, it takes out everything else, and i think that happened in this case. it happens frequently. >> the doctors for whatever reason suspected that abuse was going on at this point. then matthew was sent for a ct scan. >> in looking at the ct images of this child's brain, there is a gap an inch maybe between the surface of the brain and the undersurface of the skull. and that is moderately black appearing there. that would indicate that that is more water than anything else. if you have a collection of

blood like a stroke or subdural hematoma or something like that, it's going to be white for a while. as it ages and healed and processed, it becomes grayer and grayer and grayer, and it was those things that one could see on the ct scans. it indicates that there are more chronic processes going on, probably many weeks, maybe many months old. >> i can't say what happened. i wasn't there. i don't know how the older head injury got there. i don't believe anyone knows how the older head injury got there. >> what was the birth like? the circumstances of birth? we look into the medical record, some difficulties surrounding the birth. bacterial infection in the

mother, thmembranes broken earl a long delivery, et cetera. the list goes on. meaning this poor kid is struggling. birth is hard enough any way, let alone when you have all of these particular problems, which can start bleeding going in the brain that maybe just doesn't show itself for several months. i think that's exactly what happened in this child. >> starting with dr. edge, he essentially goes in there with a theory, a conclusion, okay? based on nothing. communicated in very, very highly emotional terms to the sergeant who communicates it to detective mason and we're off and running, with nothing but a conclusion. and because adrian thomas adopts sergeant mason's scenario and throws a notebook on the floor. >> they should be ashamed of themselves. i'm sorry. they lived. ♪

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we're expecting hurricane arthur to hit within the next couple of hours. the storm is a category 2 storm. it has local officials here worried about storm surge and downed trees and power lines. this area is not under mandatory evacuation, so many people are riding it out. officials say they'll look at the damage in the morning. stay with msnbc for the latest on this hurricane throughout the night. we live in a country that people involved in a criminal justice system, who are charged with seeking and administering justice, sometimes don't really seem to care very much about it. >> he had a fracture on the back of his skull. guess what. that ain't true. he doesn't have a fracture on

his skull. his skull is okay. >> i spoke to dr. edge and took a deposition from him, and i was informed that the original diagnosis of a skull fracture is not true. >> it's too bad the police didn't take a step back and look at the situation and see what is really going on before we rush to judgment. it's too bad that didn't take place. [ indiscernible ] >> come here. >> i didn't do it. >> you have a man here who had never spent time in jail. has no criminal history, who has been through a series of tragic things in a short period of time. the best way i can describe him is sort of a deer in headlights.

lies, telling him things like the doctors are pushing him for information. basically saying anything he would say could help save the baby's life. >> you have the ability to keep your son alive. do you want your son alive? >> yeah. >> i knew this was no chance at saving matthew's life, but i didn't feel bad about telling adrian that. ultimately it was my goal to get the truth out of him. >> did you shake anymore >> no. >> just planting these seeds hoping something will catch with adrian and he'll bite on something. >> it's important for your son's life. >> we don't care about finding out the truth. >> if you can't find that, and those doctors can't save your son's life, what kind of future

are you going to have? >> i'm hours into the interview and i still have no idea what caused the injury. for me to turn into the bad guy and start yelling at him, it wasn't a smart thing. so i said, i want you to come into the office and yell at him and call him a liar and that's what i told him. so i went back in, started going through the motions again with the interview. and it was exactly what i was looking for sergeant colinary to do. >> i think you're a liar. >> i didn't do nothing. i didn't do nothing to nobody. >> you took that baby and slammed his head. >> no, i didn't. >> the doctor said that this injury was caused by rapid acceleration and sudden deceleration, which means just like that.

like the baby was in a car accident, that's how bad it was. >> i swear to god. >> you talked to him for a while. i'll tell you what, you're hiing to me. >> i swear to god i'm not hiing. >> after he walked out, i tried to make adrian feel bad for me, because he just made me feel like a fool. >> i'm embarrassed that the detective came in here. >> i thought that might be a good idea to get adrian to realize that i'm on the same level as him and he can trust me. >> you know what? it's a lot worse than you're making it out to be, a lot worse, all right? >> they're just playing him. they're just trying to get a story from him that is even worse than the story that they've already gotten. because frankly, they don't know

why this baby died. >> if you don't have to think i'm going to hurt my child, you could be thinking, i don't know what to do, i can't take the pressure anymore. >> then these demonstrations occurred and the video was demonstrated by detective mason. >> adrian, don't mess around. stand up and show how you threw that baby on the bed. >> it was not intentional. >> adrian, you threw him harder than that. >> he didn't like adrian's performance. you could have done it harder. no, he cannot leave until he tells the tops what he wants to hear. once he does that, he can go see his wife and son. >> start thinking about your mother-in-law nagging you and your wife calling you a loser,

all right? and let that aggression build up and show me how you threw matthew on the bed. don't try to sugarcoat it. show me how hard you threw him on that bed. that's how you did it? >> it was not intentional. >> once you find the buttons that you need to push, i'm going to arrest your wife, i'm going to separate your children there them, i'm going to take care of you if you tell a story that satisfies me, now you've broken them. so you tell them i want you to stand up and re-enact this, they'll stand up and re-enact it. why? because you now control them. false confessions are probably the second leading cause of miscarriages of justice. and a big part of that is

because juries don't understand why an innocent person might confess. this kind of information can help a jury get to a just conclusion. [ video game beeping ]

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leaving zero hands to save the universe. hold on. it's manwich. during the course of the trial, the defense called a dr. ofshe to the stand. we did not get any prior notice, which is customary that if you're going to call a witness like that that you're going to give notice because it's such a contested area. >> it's very hard for someone to understand the idea that an innocent person might be gotten to give a false confession if they don't understand how interrogation works. and you can't expect somebody to understand how interrogation works just by watching an interrogation.

>> the case was assigned to judge serisio, who was fairly recently appointed to the bench. the court ultimately decided that the defense had not convinced him there should be expert testimony on the issue of false confession. that was not something if jury needed assistance in determining. >> being denied the right to call dr. ofshe, who has testified half a dozen times in new york state, was a setback. on the other hand, we were still very confident based on the medical evidence we were going to win. it's obviously a setback. the judge also said there's not an accepted field of knowledge of psychological coercion producing false confessions. >> interrogation is a process that is specifically designed to develop an admission of guilt. we offer to the suspect psychological justification for the commission of a crime. >> guess what? the object of that science is to

get a confession without any real concern about whether it's true or not. >> we're going to make it easy on them. we can't say what happened? why did you do it? tell me about it. that requires too much effort on their part. >> interrogation, when done properly, is about getting someone to demonstrate that they have knowledge of how the crime really happened, and they know details that are not told to them so they're not contaminated. details that are even necessarily known to the police. >> if i can't do it, that's not intentional. >> everything that adrian thomas said in this case was fed to him by sergeant mason. everything. >> he was very cooperative with our office and was also a pivotal witness at the trial in terms of being able to lay out the family dynamics. >> the police would like you to believe there's arguments, that

he would pick up only matthew. all the kids are home, nobody sees anything. it's a very small apartment, 600 square feet. nobody hears anything. his wife never testified she seen him be rough with matthew or malachi. i believe she was still attempting to have returned to her custody of her children who had been removed from the home at the time of the trial. if she assisted him in the defense, that could impact her ability to have her children returned. >> there was a long period of time that she was just getting visitation with her children. at that point in time, it was important that justice be carried out, but also important that her children be returned home to her. >> thomas testified that he nearly took the fall for his wife saying my wife was a good

wife and i didn't want her to be arrested. he testified his confession was a lie. >> he showed true emotion in the video where it was the opposite in the courtroom. you know, he had his nose up in the air and he ignored all the evidence as they were being shown. >> adrian's appearance, first in the videotape, and then on the witness stand, it was like two different people. very vulnerable in the interrogation. on the witness stand, some of the jurors said he appeared arrogant. >> they had testified he was hooking for a job and i'm sitting there and i'm a human resources manager. there's jobs out there. i understand he said what he signed was not true. it was true, because the way he acted during the actual video

is -- was his real being. >> the whole videotape seemed to me entirely that the detectives were telling adrian what adrian did. >> yes, they told these lies. but i don't think it was anything -- they didn't put words in his mouth. >> i was very angry at the police and their technique that they used. misrepresenting certain things, just didn't seem right at that point. >> he could have continued to deny it. if you did not hurt that baby, you would go to your grave saying no, i didn't. >> i think after time went on, adrian just gave in and said yeah. i'm not going to say gave in, but i think he just finally admitted, you know, after so long a prolonged time of being interrogated. but if that's what it takes, and i guess they've done it for a

long time, then i guess that's the way to do it. >> these are alternate jurors, going home after sitting through weeks of the trial of adrian thomas. >> i was leaning towards not guilty. >> how come? >> too much reasonable doubt. >> defense using medical expert after medical expert to convince the jury to blame the infection, not the defendant. >> that also was pretty strong evidence for me, as well, showing how infected the baby was with the bacteria. when you run a business, you can't settle for slow.

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>> adrian thomas' mother inconsoluble. the jury finding that her son's actions were the cause of his baby's death. perhaps it was the dramatics that convinced the jury. >> they had a bunch of wooden heads and stone hearts in that jury. as simple as that. >> there's several things you can say to someone who would say i would never confess falsely. one of the things you can say is, you don't know that. maybe you don't have any idea of what interrogation is really like, and how you would behave. >> i wish we would have presented his testimony and let the jury decide whether dr. ofshe had things to add to the case or not. we'll never know how that might have impacted to them.

>> we saw the video. you could just tell he was guilty. >> this could be my son, my brother, this could be me. you want to convict someone on impressions, emotions? then there's nothing a lawyer can do to stop you. none of these things are evidence. that's all i have to say. >> you're not going to be 100%, but you've got to be close to that 100% to find him guilty. and i was close enough to that 100%. is there any doubt? there's always just that little bit of doubt, but it's not enough. it was not enough. we had to convict him. >> it's easy to be tricked. it's easy to sit down and talk with a police officer.

if you ore a person who don't commit crimes and you're an honest person, you can sit down and talk with them. what do you have to hide? nothing. when you're being bombarded hours, we're not talking 15, 20 minutes we're talking about hours with questions back-to-back, you knoll it's not the truth, i know it's not the truth. so i'm going to repeat what you're saying back to you. therefore, if you keep repeating and telling me, i'm not going to be arrested, i'm going home tonight over and over, i figure hey, let's get this over with so i can go about my business and go see my son. i'm very, very angry, not just at myself, but i'm mad at detective mason, i'm mad at the other officer that came in. i'm mad at those three, because

they kept pressuring me to go in and lie. it's a traumatic experience. it's nothing that i ever experienced in my life. why lie to do your job? that would be the question. why would you have to lie to do your job? no, i didn't kill my son. no, i didn't do those things that was stated. but yes, i don't know what happened to my son. when i was telling -- sitting down with the police that night in the police station, that is the truth. that is the real truth. >> in a february 2014 decision, the new york state court of appeals found the interrogation procedures core save and the confession involuntary and ordered a retrial without the confession.

the court said the methods raised the risk of false incrimination. in 2014, a jury found adrian not guilty in the retrial. adrian was released the same day. he spent near hi six years in prison and jail.