there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. the immigration crisis at the border is dividing americans and washington even further. good morning. than forks getting up to spend some of your 4th of july holiday weekend with us. when there are two sides to a story, we try to make aechb fort to hear from both perspectives. that's why we're beginning this morning with something that was not just one of the biggest things to happen this week, a situation that is still playing out. in fact, it's a story that was also one of the most heavily covered. in that coverage one side of what happened hasn't been mentioned all that much, no to say it hasn't been talked about at all, but hasn't come up

nearly as often as this did. you may have already seen these images of what happened last tuesday when homeland security tried to transfer undocumented immigrants from texas to soirnth california. they were blocked by protesters in the city of marietta, california. they had to turn back and divert to another facility 80 miles away. that was the scene on tuesday. anti-immigration protesters actually were not the only people waiting at the city limit for the buses. supporters of the undocumented were there, too, right on the other side of the street. police decided to put up barricades to keep the two sides apart. the anti-immigrant protesters may have been the loudest and might make for better television. but lots of people in southern california were there to say welcome to the new arrivals. we've been contacting service organizations to see what they can do to offer help to the undocumented immigrants. the mayor said, quote, showing a bunch of angry people isn't a

true reflection of marietta. what didn't make news is the out poural of helping. on friday homeland security was transferring more immigrants. officers ended up arresting five people outside a border patrol facility. this new crisis on the border not only has serious humanitarian immigrations. opponents of immigration reform are claiming it is a direct result of president obama's deferred action program which allowed many undocumented children to remain in this country, only hardening their resolve to derail any attempt attism grags reform this year. that leaves the ball in president obama's court to take action on his own which he vowed this week to do. >> i take executive action only when we have a serious problem, a serious issue and congress

chooses to do nothing. and in this situation, the failure of house republicans to pass a darn bill is bad for our security. bad for our economy and it's bad for our future. i don't prefer taking administrative action. i'd rather see personal into fixes to the issue we face. certainly that's true on immigration. i've made that clear multiple times. i would love nothing more than bipartisan legislation to pass the house t senate, land on my desk so i can sign it. that's true about immigration. that's true about the minimum wage. that's true about equal pay. there are a whole bunch of things where i would greatly prefer congress actually do something. >> gabriella was the director of hispanic press for obama's re-election campaign. now a principal with a progressive immigration firm.

wesley lowery is a political reporter with "the washington post" and kay ton dawson the chairman of the republican party. wesley, we've been telling graphing this for a while. if immigration reform can't get through congress, then the president steps in and takes executive action. now this week he signals that's what he plans to do at the end of the summer. what is the expectation for the scope of what he's going to end up doing here? >> it's unl clear exactly what president obama might do with the executive action. first he's got to deal with the current border crisis with so many children coming here. part of that will be probably tied in with congressional action''s asking for. a lot will be the executive action, either ordering more resources down to the border, opening more facilities for the children coming in. the president has also asked now for suggestions from immigration groups he's been working with as well as groups from the left and

in theory from republicans as well as too what type of executive actions. i'm sure president obama already has a clear idea of what he's going to do, but he's at least attempting the idea of transparency telegraphing i'm going to use executive action for this. tell me what we should do, tell me how we should handle this. executive action in this type of -- republicans like to call it imperial presidency, the idea of him using his powers as president certainly riles up the right. even on something like immigration that the left wants to see get done, it's going to be a two-edged sword. >> i want to pick up that point. gabriella, we'll start with in terms of the executive action the president is says he's going to take, let's say you got a chance to talk to the president about this. he said, gabriella, what is it you would like me to do, what is your wish list? what do you want him to take his pen and do? >> steve, that's an unfair

situation, an unfair situation that the president is in right now. also, this doesn't come out of a vacuum. this comes out of one of the most thorough and extensive reviews of our immigration policies conducted by secretary johnson. let's remember he mate not only with immigrant rights groups but with extremely restrictionist groups and that some say are false equivalency to the immigration groups he met with. this isn't out of a vacuum. this is out of finally -- though the president has been trying for so, so, so long for republicans to get on board, they had all the political cover to get on board, whether it was evangelicals, police groups, conservative members all over the country. >> so they're not on board, it doesn't look like they're going to get on board this summer. that's why we've arrived at this moment. he said johnson wants holder to give recommendations. i'm wondering if your standpoint

as an advocate, what you would specifically like him to do? >> one of the things i think about often is that over 60% of them have been here for over a decade. so i think that the communities in which these people belong to, the amount of time that they've been here, obviously if they haven't broken any laws, if they're from mixed status. we have 4 million families that have undocumented and documented people in their families. all these human levels have to be taken into consideration. >> so kay ton, let's look at that time republican party here. gabriella mentioned the opening existed t story of the 2012 election, obama never thought the latino voters would show up in toes numbers. the message to republicans was now you have to do something on immigration. here we are two years later. it didn't happen.

what happened? >> from the republican point of view, the president never really went all in on immigration. in his first term he never shoved the chips in and said this isn't a priority. affordable care act became a pry orkts not immigration. certainly the republican party to win a national election is going to have to do better among all types of groups. the news out of this is, the number you showed earlier, steve 65 approve, 31 approve. he doesn't have to run for election again. we'll talk about the immigrations of executive action on this. republicans, they're in a box here, aren't they. the big picture story of american politics is the country is changing, the country is more diverse. >> we tried. george w. bush tried. the penalties became, and john mccain and lindsey graham who saddled up to try to get something done as a republican effort. it failed.

it caused a lot of disfunction in our party that's probably still there. i have seen it steve, the message has changed in the groups i'm in. the only thing i find is universal amnesty causes all the riles. what will cause the rile next week is the $2 billion put up, the executive action. they feel he's not doing the right thing. what he's doing is taking his base from the 65/31 a little con fuf. our base is united against him. if you're looking towards the midterms, the president is the gift that keeps on giving. >> gabby, you want to get in there. go ahead. >> i don't think the 65/31 number is confusing. what advocates have done and what the president is speaking about this over and over again is shift the american population on issue after issue, whether it's minimum wage, all kinds of issues, the republican party is no longer where the majority of americans are. the majority of americans, even in conservative districts, even conservative districts key to

republicans maintaining the power of the house in november, americans -- over 60% of them support comprehensive immigration reform. until we see that happen, things like are happening on the border right now are going to continue to. our immigration system is reactive and not preventive. that's also something republicans aren't talking about about the senate bill. remember when the chc member left negotiations because of the punitive and border security measures of the immigration bill? this immigration bill had money to stop and prevent what's happening on the border. right now or border isn't reacting in a way we need to for humane purposes or economic purposes until republicans start messaging with us and really, really start talking to the fringe rups we see cause headlines in murrieta, this isn't going to change. they're on the wrong side of the american people. that's in no, no, no small part due to the fact that the president and advocates have been working every day to

educate people about the situation. >> when we look at that number, wesley, i'm curious what you see in that 65/31 number. we can talk about the demographic challenge that the republican party faces. republicans think here and now in this moment they have an opening because they can say look what's going on on the border. they're saying and a lot of people dispute this. they are saying the president's deferred action program created or fed into a crisis at the border and, therefore, that should stall momentum on executive action to do more on immigration. do you think in the court of public opinion they can have ground to cover them? >> voters and political reporters and all of us as observers have short memories when we talk about these types of things. often we buy the argument in front of us versus the historical argument, whatever they are in the long game. that's an argument, when it remains to be seen if republicans can make that argument that this current crisis at that time border has to do with this program. i think democrats have made an

argument that no, this is something coming down the pipeline. i think what perry said earlier this week, we've seen this coming for two years. then you can't make that argument. it remains to be seen in voters, especially in 2014, in a midterm year, it's a lot easier to blame the current president no matter who that president is for a current problem than it is to try to extrapolate that into long-running issue or structural problem, especially in our partisan politics. we love to say you're the president right now, why haven't you solved the problem or the problem is on you. i think immigration is one of the issues where it stretched so long to begin with, an issue we needed to reform so many of our laws here and immigration system for so long, the responsibility falls on whoever is currently in the oval office. president obama wanted to use his political power to pass immigration reform, it would have been done by now. i think when we look at the number, the 65 number, a lot of that is discontent from people on the left who are happy with

how he's handled immigration. >> we have to squeeze a break in here. the label that some on the left, deporter and chief, i want to get into how this feeds more broadly into this debate. we'll pick it up after this. sos a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine...loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of prescription medicine that's used along with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. invokana® is a once-daily pill that works around the clock to help lower a1c. here's how. the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose some weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration,

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that is discontent from people an executive in government, the president of the united states or the governor of the state can't go it alone. you're not going to be successful. and i hope that all of us will share with the president that we're willing to sit down and work with him. >> that was texas governor rick perry at a house homeland security hearing in south texas on thursday. we're back now. gabriella, i teed this up at the end of the last segment.

this term that some supporters of immigration reform have put on the president, the idea that he's been deporter in chief, i wonder, when you look at that frustration that exists on the left and you look at the record of the obama administration on deportations the last five, six years, a lot of people would look at that and say what the obama administration was trying to do was buy itself political space. hey, we are tough on deportations, tough on the border, republicans, you can trust us, you can buy in and work was. when you look at where we are now, do you think the obama administration made a mistake in that approach? >> i think everybody mysticaling lated this, including advocates. that's what i'm hearing reported by advocates themselves. they thought republicans were going to come to the table. they had the chamber, evangelicals, police officers, right? if the one republican talking point that's been completely consistent over the past -- since 2007, the last attempt, it's been border security. what did the president do? the border is more secure than

ever, more apprehensions, 2 million deportations, and that political will that he was really seeking in good faith to create with republicans, even with leaders in the republican party like the chamber of commerce, lijust didn't exist. the reality is you have 2 million people separated from their families and communities and this is going to continue even if you accept these 11 million people, there's no tenable way to deport them all and we have to give them a way to become productive and full members of society, pair their taxes and get rid of the people that might have committed serious crimes. >> caton, you want tough on the border, you want border security and you look at the track record of this administration, why hasn't the president gotten any cred it from republicans on that? >> for the 2 million people he

deported, it's very seldom. >> why? >> he's an unlikable person. you found a popular governor in texas who is asking the president to come to to border and see what it looks like physically. the president is doing two fund-raisers in dallas. there's a willing conservative that crosses all lines saying i'm willing to do business with you. that border is 1200 miles, from hilton head, south carolina, to the front of maine if you were to build a fence. that isn't one of the answers that you see a lot of the far right says let's wall it out. republicans have tried one time before. again, they tried the senate and passed the bill out. it's going to be contentious. nothing will be done until after the midterms. the republicans will see in 2015 the opportunity is there. >> what i've been hearing is not

2014, 2015. it's 2017. if the republican party won't do this in the wake of 2012, they won't do this suddenly, especially if they have a good midterm this fall. >> they're going to have a good midterm. >> they would be like, look, we didn't do it. >> i'm at enough republican meetings that cut across the tea party to center right republicans, two things i hear, guest worker program which a couple years ago was unacceptable, this current crisis of children and people, and it's like mike huckabee saying he's running for president. we live in a country that nobody is trying to break out, everybody is trying to break in. that hits to the core of it. everybody wants to come here. what i see is we have honduras, guatema guatemala, the countries are so failing. that's another whole problem of these people are packing up their children to come to the united states. i can't say whether this has helped or hurt the situation. the face of this political pawns that have become children is

going to change some of this debate after this problem is solved when it is. but it's going to be on the news with you and everybody else for a while. the tragic situation here is we don't know what's happened to the children before they get here. that's the next story, is these are gangs and criminal activities, people paying money to come to america and you and i, all of us would. we're all immigrants. it's a difficult, difficult problems. republicans in 2015, if they're ever going to get any credit politically for doing immigration reform and changing it, 2015 is going to be the time. >> i have a hard time seeing it if it hasn't happened now. >> if we ever want to win the white house. >> that's right. that's what people have been saying since november 2012. >> even if we don't ged credit for it. >> you have to get off the table. >> wesley, give me your sense of the immediate future, between now and the election this november, executive action from

the white house. is anything else on the horizon? >> i can't fathom anything else on the horizon. congress is potentially not going to do anything else at all. it's very hard to see anything other than an executive action coming from the obama white house. the situation on the border will continue to play out here. i think a lot of this comes back to, when we talk about the inability to get something done, a lot of it comes back to the relationship the obama white house has or doesn't have with leaders on the hill. this is something you've been talking about for a long time. i do think president obama did put forth a good faith effort to attempt to crack down on the border. you do that, but if your relationships on the hill are so severed the way they are, if you have this type of vitriolic relationships the way president obama has with a lot of people on the right and the house republican leadership, it doesn't matter. speaker boehner can come to the microphone and say half my caucus doesn't uphold tbelieve

uphold the law. there are members of the caucus who don't believe the president of the united states wants to uphold the laws. in that case, how is it going to be a ten able situation where they'll work towards a compromise? that's what we're seeing play out. president obama did things to try to bring republicans to the tent on this, but it seems to me the relationships are so severed that i don't know a package like this was ever going to really happen. >> what you're describing, too, describes a lot of what's happened in washington for the last five or six years. my thanks to gabriella, team up declared this story the most surprising segment pitch i proved. producing it was an education for all of us. all of the bloody, gory details next. dentures are very different to real teeth.

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export/import banks stirred my curiosity. quote, the export/import bank is one of the most important republican fights in years and what the export-import bank says about the state of conservatism. all these headlines raced one question for me. what's the export-import bank. until this week, all i had to go on was this. >> what are you doing here? >> meeting a friend of ours for lunch who works in the bank. >> art vandelay. he's an importer. >> aengsd porter. >> he's an importer-importer. >> at the risk of oversimplifying things, it turns out the export-import bank has been around for a long time. we found it's a relic from the new deal as america was trying to dig out of the great depression. the agency es essential job is to support u.s. exports sometimes by giving loans to foreign buyers so they can

purchase americans good, sometimes by protecting those who give those loans in case they aren't paid back. that's what it is. why are people fighting over it right now. it's a favorite target of the tea party right. they want it to government they argue among other things, by supporting loans to some companies and not to others t banks are essentially deciding which companies will thrive and which won't, that it's anti-free market. the bank only exists as long as the senate authorizes it. the authorization is up for any newell this fall. the right sees the opening it's been looking for to kill off the bank. that sentiment is coming from people like jeb heb sar ling. paul ryan is against it as is new house majority leader kevin mccarthy. >> i think ex-im bank is something the public doesn't have to be involved in. >> you would allow it to expire

in september? >> yes. >> a perfect way for mccarthy to see himself as less moderate, breaking ranks with the establishment by siding with the tea party over eric cantor who is a champion of the export-import bank. he's in alliance with the chamber of commerce and the national association for manufacturers. in less than 90 days authorization for the bank is going to expire. how far is the tea party willing to go to get its way on this one? what i i like to turn to ezra klein for us and editor in chief from fox.com is standing by in washington to talk me through it hopefully in simple words. >> i'm not an vanelay, but for people like me, tell us how we feel it in our lives? why is it important to the world we live in? >> it's not that important to be perfectly honest. it's a important political fight

over not that important a policy issue. what it does is basically gives loans or guarantees loan to foreign companies in order for them to buy american good. what the export-import bank will do is take an indian airline and give them money to buy boeing jets. that's not a random example. part of the reason we're having a discussion over it is delta hates the export-import bank because it's subsidizing delta's foreign competitors in order to sell boeing jets. their lobbyists are going full force at it. what is interesting about it -- to say one other thing, it supports about 2% of the american exports. it's there but not that big. nobody knows if you took it away, how much of a hit you would take. >> if it goes away, this not one of those issues where, oh, my god, growth is going to collapse and we're looking at more joblessness. we don't know anything about that.

>> no. one thing that should be said, what's happening is the bank needs to be reauthorized in september. this is a place where congress could make a big change by doing nothing. they could collapse the whole thing overnight by not reauthsizing it. if you want to get rid of the export-import bank, you'd want to phase it out. it is supporting tens of billions of dollars worth of exports. there are a lot of jobs riding on that. it's not the end of the world. just knocking things down overnight is not a wise way to make policies. something you do want to keep notice on, even if you want to end the bank, you can do it in a stupid way or a smart way. >> talk about that then. in terms of the politics of this, the thing -- the specter of a shutdown has been invoked. as i read about this, the idea that, hey, this is the new thing the tea party wants to kill. it was obama care last year. it will be the export-import

bank next year. is there anything to that? >> we'll see. i didn't think they would shut down the government over obamacare eerth and they dichltd it would be an odd thing to shut it down over an export system nobody has heard of. you're seeing a war between the populous libertarian tea party wing of the republican party and the establishment big business of the republican party. the export-import bank is heavy supported by the chamber of commerce, national association of manufacturers, they put out a letter signed by more than 800 businesses including one in every congressional district in the country supporting the bank. so this is a really big fight. on the other hand you have them call it social reform conservatives, different groups a little bit. but what they believe, and i think this is the key of why this is a fight worth paying attention to. what they believe is when republicans get into power, they are too cautious about trying to tear down big parts of the state. one of the reasons they're

cautious about trying to take down the welfare state, when they begin to try to take down medicare or medicaid or whatever it might be, all of a sudden all these different businesses that rely on the state, because they have contracts with it, come out of the woodwork and say, if you try to take down this government program, you're going to be putting people out of work in your district and republicans back off. so there's an understanding or a belief or theory in certain elements of reformed conservatism right now that, if they're going to ever be able to govern in a way that's going to shrink the state, that's going to make the state more conservative recognizebly, not have these -- not do what george w. bush did or what george h.w. bush did and sort of make peace with the welfare state, the republican party needs to learn how to fight the businesses and be angry at the businesses that work with the state. >> this is an important symbolic fight, a chance for the tea party to prove, hey, we actually can win one, we can dismantle something, can be big business. that's an interesting way of looking at it.

ezra klein, thanks forgetting up with us and explaining it. i understand it better. >> thank you for having me. another controversial decision by the supreme court handed down on the last day of situation, hasn't gotten as much attention as hobby lobby. we'll try to fix that. that's next. [ video game beeping ] ♪ [ male announcer ] it takes two hands to eat a manwich. leaving zero hands to save the universe. hold on. it's manwich. this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain...

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no matter how fast your business needs to adapt, if hp big data solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. make it matter. almost all of the at dimension the supreme court this week was on the hobby lobby decision. thaul attention obscured the other contentious ruling handed down on the last day of the session, another 5-4 decision from the court's conservative majority and another ruling that puts the employment benefits of a set of employers at risk. the case harris v. quinn was about union fees paid by home care workers who were employed by the state of illinois, the people who bathe, feed and care for poor seniors disabled in their homes. home care worker pamela harris was paid from state medicaid funds to care for her disabled son said she didn't want to pay

fees to the union that represents home care workers in the state. roughly half of all states including illinois to pay fair share fees to the union to cover the cost of negotiating better wages and benefits. these fees prevent workers from free riding, getting a bump in earnings, enjoying the union does in their behalf without paying for the cost of the negotiations. on monday for the first time the court says these home care workers can't be compelled to pay collective bargaining fees. home care is the third fastest growing occupation in the united states, more than nine in ten of home care workers are women. most of them, the majority are african-american, hispanic and asian. you might remember president obama spent a day with a home care worker represented by the union when he campaigned for

president. >> i'm rid difficult to work. >> at his home i prepared breakfast for him. i helped to make the bed. i cleaned the house, did some laundry. >> i think the center is doing a good job. he act like he knows what he's doing anyway. >> he ended up doing the mopping, the sweeping and he did the laundry. >> she working the hell out of him. >> home care workers might not be the only people affected by monday's court decision. writing for the majority justice alito writes, quote, no person in this country may be kon compelled to sub dies speech by a third party they don't wish to support. does alito's opinion lay the groundwork for future rollbacks. i'm joined by attorney amy howe of scotusblog.org and rule myth man a professor at the city

university of new york. amy, what is the court saying here? this doesn't apply to all public employees. this only applies to a person group of them? what is the court saying and how is it drawing that distinction? >> in 1977 there was a case against the board of education, a case in which the supreme court said public sector employees can't be required to join a union. if they don't want to join the union they can still be required to pay what's called an agency fee, the cost associated with collective bargaining. that's been the law for almost 40 years. a couple years ago another labor case, also written by justice samuel alito, the supreme court suggested that maybe it might be time to overrule that case and effectively invited someone to come to the supreme court and make that argument. that's what the home health care workers who didn't want to join the union in harris versus quinn were doing. they were saying we shouldn't have to pay -- not only should

we not have to join the union, we should haven't to pay the agency fees. when you're a public sector employee, in essence everything is xlit cal, it's not just collective bargaining. the supreme court said these particular home health care workers in illinois weren't full-fledged public employees, they were public employees-like because they worked in someone's home, they worked for their clients or their patients, even though they were paid by the states. there's a principle called stare decisis which means courts aren't going to overrule old cases just because they think they're wrong. it's generally better that the law is settled than than it's correct. the law can be overruled, if there's a really strong argument that it's wrong or stale or there's otherwise a good reason to overrule it. what the court's decision on monday did was it didn't overrule the 1977 abud case, but id laid the foundation for doing

so. the supreme court pointed out all the things wrong with the abud case and left the door open which left the door open for an employee to come in and say we should haven't to pay the agency fees either. >> we find out a couple years later that it was a little broader than that. ruth, in terms of these home care workers and their representation by seiu, what is this going to mean practically speaking now that the ruling came down? home care workers don't have to pay the fees, if they don't want to. is this going to gut the ability to represent home care workers? >> it's narrow for the moment as amy said. but it jeopardizes the future of organizing in this sector which is one of the fastest growing sectors and one of the most disadvantaged sectors in the workforce. these are women of color primarily doing very basic work. until they were unionized they

were paid minimum wage, that was 2003 in illinois. their pay has doubled almost over the period since then. they also have health care benefits. >> because of union representation. >> i wonder if the ruling is saying these fees are vol tarks you don't have to pay them, isn't there a strong case to be made for the home care workers to say, my pay doubled, it's worth this small contribution to get that? do you think most will see it that way? >> maybe. they're very scattered by definition. these are people working in private homes. it's not that easy to go visit them and discuss this matter with them. that's why the agency fee makes sense. the free rider problem you mentioned before which has again been the law of the land for almost 40 years since the decision in 1977, is designed to address this exact issue. that's what agency fees are about. the law requires that union represents all the workers in a bargaining unit, whether or not they're members, whether or not

they pay dues. this case was brought by the national right to work foundation which has been gunning for unions for 40 years or so. they've been very successful in decimating private sector unionism. in the public sector until now, employers have not been particularly viciously opposed to unionism as they are in the private sector. private sector unionism is about 6% private sector workers are union members. in the public sector it's about 60%. >> quickly, amy, you were sort of setting this up in your answer a minute ago. do you think we'll be talking a couple years from now, whatever it is, the court revisiting this and expanding this. it's not just about home care workers, but about public employees. >> i do. my understanding is there's also a lawsuit pending against the california teachers association. that could quickly work its way

up to the supreme court. the question is whether or not there are five votes to overrule the 1977 decision altogether. i think many people thought there might be this time around, but at the oral argument justice scalia seemed to be expressing some doubt about whether or not the court could overrule that decision now. could it a few years from now? perhaps. >> so it's the same postscript we apply to the hobby lobby. my thanks to amy howe, ruth milkman. edward snowden released more documents about the nsa's data collection. we have the details straight ahead. because there's nothing more exhilarating than a powerful ride. and you can get that in places you might not expect. like the passat. and also in the fun-to-drive jetta. in fact, volkswagen has sold more turbos than any other brand over the last ten years. that is a lot of turbo.

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are you down with crestor!? ask your doctor if crestor could help you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. "the washington post" lead story is a big investigative report that is certain to prompt a lot of discussion and reaction in the days to come. the newspaper reports the nsa is intercepting data from many more ordinary users than from its intended targets. nine out of every ten account

holders were not the people the agency was trying to target. nearly half the surveillance files are from americans. former nsa analyst edward snowden provided the documents to the post. however, the article also points out how much valuable intelligence has been picked up in the sweep. quoting from the article, discoveries of considerable intelligence value in the intercepted message. to avoid interfering with on going operations, there are fresh revelations about a secret overseas nuclear project, double dealing by an ally, a military calamity and the identities of aggressive intrutders into u.s. computer network. katon dawson is back from south carolina and wesley lowery from "the washington post." you gooif us something to talk about this morning. i'm still digesting the article. i read it first thing this morning. i've strubld the first time

we've talked about the nsa and snowden. on the one hand, i value my privacy a lot and i think everybody i know values their privacy a lot. on the other hand, what this article is pointing out, some very real examples of serious threats to the country that were probably dealt with because of this. there was apparently the intelligence led directly to the capture of a bomb builder, also to a suspect in a 2002 indonesian bombings. i think it's a balancing act where you can't have all of one and none of the other. i would recommend everyone read that piece. the main thing to take away is how much months later, a year later from the initial edward snowden leaks and documents, it remains not a black and white issue. it remains a nuanced and complicated issue. initially you want to frame him as a traitor or patriot. he either needs to be hung for

treason or on the $1.00 bill. i think as we read today's piece, yes, the post -- my colleagues at the post document specific threats averted, captures made, specific investigations. by the way a bunch of other stuff we can't tell you about because the government asked us not to. meanwhile, it raises a lot of questions about privacy and about freedom and about how we interact and what the government has. the fact the government has databases that are accessible to private contractors like edward snowden that include baby pictures and love letters. >> that's one of the things the articles are talking about, not only very, very personal, intimate communications are beinging collected, but also stored and kept. there's no explanation for me why that would be the case. >> when somebody as intelligent as wesley has to read it twice and you have to read it twice, this tells you it's really deep.

when we were talking out, i change my mind about every 30 minutes. i want my privacy like everybody else. once you start seeing the whole crux of this and national security and as dangerous as the world s you want to collect information. it will become political again about your rights and prooif sigh rights. it always changes as soon as we have a terrorism act, whether it be boston, 9/11. i'm of the opinion as a conservative republican that i don't have to know everything. i want my politicians and my president to know it all. i think there's a value there. george bush told us years ago, guys, whoever is president that gets this national security book is going to change their opinion when they read what they see. >> in washington, in the political world, what do you think the fallout will be? >> i think in a lot of ways it's going to reinvigorate the conversation we've been having, i'm looking forward to running into rand paul in the capitol

building later this week. there are going to be people very upset about this. it's going to be a lot of the libertarian-leaning republicans i think 234 congress. the question just remains, i think -- this is one of the things, i try to not to weigh in on the snowden stuff as much and letter my better sourced colleagues write on it. there's a lot of value in the information brought out here. this is a conversation we could not have even had. we wouldn't have had the information knowing these databases and private information was being collected, whether to weigh in it or not or know the specifics or not. >> i would say, too, here, you're from "the washington post." i'm not just saying this to be a good host. "the post" did this the right way, it looks like they really took their time, withheld a lot of stuff and tried to strike that balance. that's how i think journalists are supposed to balance this.

>> certainly it wasn't, okay, you said we can't publish this, so we won't. i'm sure there was months and back and forth on that. that's important. balancing the public's right and the job of journalism in democracy about informing the public about things the government may not want us to know. >> it's a valuable article. you'll hear a lot about it this week. my thanks to katon dawson and wesley lowery. poll the page, the most colorful governor. will his latest troubles be enough to win re-election in maine. one of the candidates in that race will join us at the top of the hour. tay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion.

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if you're going to be the governor of any state, it's not a good headline if you associate with what the fbi considers to be a domestic terrorist movement. the state voted for president obama by 15 points. along those same lines, it probably wouldn't help if you said president obama hates white people. paula page, republican governor of maine has done all of that. he went with members of the sovereign citizens movement linked by the fbi to the murders of a half dozen police officers is only the latest in what has been a four-year parade of startling revelations by la page. yet, even though maine is a blue state that hasn't gone republican in a presidential race since 1988, even though it's that blue, he could well win a second term this fall. you can see there he's locked in a virtual tie with dem krotic congressman mike mish show. if you're wondering why his

democratic opponent isn't way ahead, democrats point to this guy. he is the third candidate, independent elliot cutler, running at about 15% 234 the polls. democrats think they've seen this story before. four years ago cutler ran as an independent, ending up doing far better than the democratic nominee. with the opposition divided, hepage won a 10,000 vote margin over cutler. now there are democrats urging cutler to drop out of the race and support michaud. his campaign manager said a vote for cutler is a vote for hepage. the wave of republican governors, paul hepage faces on paper the longest odds this year. maine voted for obama by 15 points in 2012. more incumbent republican

governor -- lepage's best and only chance of survival is if the opposition remains divided. here to talk about his campaign is elliot cutler, the independent candidate for the governor of maine. >> good to be here. >> we should point out, we invited congressman michaud and mr. lepage. >> we have two empty chairs here. >> he wanted to make it. i'll hit you with a question you must get more than any other on the campaign trail. you look at that poll, look at lepage's record and says my priority this year is to get paul lepage out. isn't there a case to be made for let's unify the opposition here? >> not really, not in maine. we have a history of electing independents, we've had ten

gubernatorial elections in main. the real issue in maine not only whether we show paul lepage the door, that's going to happen. the real question is do we elect the best person to replace him. that was the question in 2010. maine people like choices. i think it's understandable that the republicans and the democrats would like to have just two candidates in the race. i get that. that's not what most voters want. voters in maine are like people in a small town where everybody, most of the people in town would like to buy sensible lays-up brown shoes or black shoes and there are only two shoe stores in town. one sells nothing but bright rendel sandals and the other one sells nothing but bright blue rubber boots. voters are disappointed in choices. >> isn't there a case to be

made -- i understand from your situation it must be frustrating to hear them say this. i imagine you saying if you want to unify the opposition, you get out of the race. i could imagine that. at the same point when you look at the results from 2010, it is true, if it had been a one-on-one race with somebody, lepage doesn't get in in the first place. >> that's a defense of says tell that's broken right now. most voters in maine are disenchanted with both parties. in the last senate election when the democrat won 12% of the vote -- >> angus king. >> we had democrat nominated by the democratic primary, republican nominated from the republican primary. both went into the general election with votes of less than 5% of the state of mairn. mainr maine voters are

disenchanted. >> paul lepage isn't an ordinary incumbent it's safe to say. he's made national headlines. this week it's with this sort of far right group it has been marked as a domestic terrorist movement by the fbi. what happened if, let's say, we're in october and the polls look like they look right now. paul lepage has a chance of winning a plurality of the vote. is there a point where you will look at this and say the priority has to be getting paul lepage out of office. >> steve, i love the state of maine. i don't think paul lepage is a good governor. i don't think michaud would be a good governor. we're the old estate in america and getting older faster than just about any other state. we need to make real structural changes in main.

we need to do a lot of things we're not doing, fix the way we think, fix the way we work. mike michaud is not going to do that, he's a backbencher in the congress of the united states which is the last places in the world he should look for innovation and bold leadership. >> your background is you worked in omb in jimmy carter's presidency. you were an aide to ed muss ski, long-time senator from maine. your background is on the democratic side. >> i was a republican briefly after i was a democrat. >> we understand what separates you from lepage. what separates you from mishaud. >> one is experience in government and politics that michaud doesn't have. the government of the state of maine is the single largest enterprise. we have no plan, no vision. he's not bringing those to the

table. the second is i am a person of strong principles. i've been a committed person of values and principles all my life and you can't say that about mike. third, i refuse to take money from internal interest pacs. mike michaud has taken $1,000 a day every day including saturday, sundays and holidays, including tobacco and sugar. i don't think money in politics is the solution to america's or maine's structural problems. >> you said, the first question i asked, you said paul lepage is not going to get re-elected. why is that? >> maine voters are tired and embarrassed and know we need change. >> when you see a poll where he's at 40% -- that's the number he won with last time. there are people that stuck with him for four years.

>> i think paul lepage will get 30-something percent. >> that means there's a chance he can win. >> there's a chance you can win. there's a chance anybody can win. polls in june and july, and you know this because you're a political wonk. you know polls in june and july, particularly in three-person races are not at all predictive. they're horribly unpredictive. last time i didn't get to 20% in the polls until october 12th. at this time i was still in single digits. maine voters aren't paying attention. the last poll shows 66% of maine voters haven't made up their minds who they want to vote for. that's a huge undecided pool. and maine voters, like most voters in america don't pay much attention until about the 1st of october. the democrats' whole strategy is to get voters to vote before the debates begin. there's a reason that paul and mike aren't here with me today.

they don't want to debate. >> i want to point out, congressman michaud did want to be here. i want to give him credit for that. it is true about your race in 2010, and i remember this with angus king in 1994 when he got elected governor of maine. the independent candidates do start out far behind. this is a question to watch, for people that want to get paul lepage out, who is in that second slot, when you get to late october. >> it's not just who is going to get him out, but who is a good governor to replace him. >> eliot cutler, appreciate you coming on today. the changing shapes of presidential legacies when we return. they're magically delicious say "hi" rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. that's why i'm so excited

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of voters think barack obama is the worst president since world war ii. obama edged out george w. bush for this distinction, although it comes with an asterisk, virtually all the voters ranking him as the worst president are republicans. that numbers speaks to the intensity of the opposition he faces. still his approval ratings lag in the low to mid 40s, not the disastrous depths that bush was plunging to, but the heights that bill clinton and ronald reagan achieved in their second terms. what the poll tells us is how shortsighted these assessments tend to be, how they take place over decades and generations. the gallup poll shows presidential ratings improve after a president leaves office. jfk, gerald ford, jimmy carter and ronald reagan benefited from this. this summer marks 40 years since

richard nixon resigned the presidency, on the verge o for being i'm preached and left office with the worst poll numbers ever seen by a president. he spent the next few years in sec collusion, but then moved back into public life as a respected elder statesman. this was the cover of "newsweek" magazine, a smiling richard nixon, he's back the rehabilitation of richard nixon. by 1992 it was safe to celebrate richard nixon at the republican national convention. his rehabilitation was a one-man achievement. it died with him in 1994. his historical reputation has slid back to the bottom of the pile. his story is a reminder of how fluid presidential legacies could be, huge it takes for a lasting impression to take hold. to put that new poll about obama in more context, consider this,

when quinnipiac took this same poll in 2006, eight years ago, the same time during george w. bush's presidency, the most unpopular president since world were ii was george w. bush at 34%. richard nixon got 17% along with bill clinton who scored 16%. take a look at that same poll now eight years later. president clinton gets only 3% of the worst president ever vote. presumably all these republicans who ranked bush 43 are now scoring obama the worst. that tells us plenty about the overheated nature of today's partisan warfare. when this period does fade into history, how will we remember the obama presidency. what will history make of the time we're living in now and how are these things determined anyway. here to shine light line is author matthew dallek, currently with george washington

university's graduate school. and ann lewis who was director of communications for president bill clinton. matthew, you do presidential histories and assessment for a living. i'll start with you. obviously these things do take shape over time, really a long period of time. one thing i wonder is when you look at a president's popularity when he and she is in office, how much does that affect how historians look at them. when president obama has been stuck between the low 40s and low 50s his entire presidency. reagan got up near 70, clinton got near 70. how much does the realtime analysis of the voters affect history? >> it can affect it to some extent. but i think the crucial point is the point that make, these legacies take years and often decades to unfold. if we look at hairy truman, when truman left office, he was reviled. what's happened in the past two

decades? he's seen as an architect of the containment strategy that allowed us to prevail in the cold war. ronald reagan in early 1983 was at 35% approval. in 1987 at the height of iran contra he was at 47% approval. where is he now? the greatest president according to that poll. so i think we miss much more than we see if we're looking at how voters make these kinds of judgments. we have to wait decades. >> the bill clinton presidency is a good example because he went from the depth in 1994 to get re-elected, 66% in 1998 around this time. how have you seen since bill clinton left office, 13 years now, how long have you seen his legacy take shape? >> it's a good question and worth discussing. let me go back, you said these

polls should come with an asterisk. that asterisk should say consumer warning. what you're getting is a heavy dose of highly charged partisan involvement especially with president obama. by the middle of his second term people were thinking he's doing his good job, working hard. maybe it should be a lesson, the heart of the republican congress tried to beat up on him, the more people reacted. wait a minute, that guy is working for us, give him a chance. that boomeranged. that's why bill clinton's party is the first party to gain seats in apartmental midterm. >> in the same year that he's impeached. >> i can remember growing up, looking back at american history as a student in middle school and high school, andrew johnson, the only president to be impeached and richard nixon who resigned on the verge of i'm peoplement, if happens, history

will look at clinton differently. >> this is a political effort, a party that can't beat him. they've tried to beat him and failed. now they're trying to misuse the constitution to get him out of office. that's wrong. american people have a strong sense of fair play. bill clinton is working hard, the economy is going in the right direction, we've got a lot to be proud of. here are these guys over here in the congress, all they want to do is knock him off. his numbers went up, their numbers went down. i don't think either of those was a coincidence. of course, because both bill clinton in office and then after office became so active, i think that's a second point i would urge which is when you look at presidents, we have three stages. one is when they first get elected and there were all these high hopes. the second is what could be the low point at some point during their career. the hird is what will they do post presidency.

i will say that's certainly true of bill clinton and the work of the clinton global initiative. go back and look at jimmy carter and some of the comments about president carter. maybe we weren't so thrilled with him when he was in office, but we really like some of what he's done since. >> it helps to leave office at a young age. matthew, we put out here how long these things take to take form. but is it too soon to give an initial estimate of how history might look back at president obama? we know he got health care reform through. that's the headline. 100 years of trying and failing and he got it through. what would an initial early, early estimate look like? >> i think with president obama there are a few things to watch. the first, as you mentioned, is health reform. if in 20, 30 years from now, the so-called cost curve is bent. if the number of uninsured americans is dramatically down and his obama care program is

still basically intact, it's going to be hard to imagine he's going to be rated the worst president. same thing with the economy. we just saw the job numbers are 6.1% down from a high of 10%. what happens i think in iraq and afghanistan and the war on terror? i think all these forces are come into play. there's another point that i think is important and reflects the current poll numbers which is arguably one of obama's biggest disappointments, biggest failures is that he was so successful in 2008 at arguing that he was going to bring the country together, that he was going to overcome the red and blue divide. here we are years later, clearly that hasn't happened. he faces a stride dent opposition in the house, and i think that disappointment and that general kind of anger at washington is fueling a lot of what you see in terms of these numbers, not just for obama, but also for bush.

and then a final point and this is why i wouldn't put much stock in that poll, the fact that richard nixon is at 13% and obama is at mid 30s, george w. bush -- that makes zero sense. not just watergate, but the kind of core deception in the nixon administration and the fact that he was forced out of office, about to be impeached, to me there's no comparison, and it suggests that our memories are pretty short and if you want to do a more accurate poll, i think we should ask voters to list the worst and best presidents but without the current president and previous president on that list. >> you talk about the expectations and the hopes thatality the beginning of the obama presidency, a more united country, i think that we're here where basically every republican is trained to say president obama worst president ever,

shows you the reality of what he was up against. the headline from that poll is the nature of the opposition he's faced. my thanks to professor and historian matthew dallek. the report released on the eve of the july fourth holiday, a classic news dump that hasn't stopped us from delving into it. it involves chris christie. details are next.  instead of mailing everyone my vacation photos,

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i saved more than that in half the time. i unfriend you. that's not how it works. that's not how any of this works. [ male announcer ] 15 minutes for a quote isn't how it works anymore. with esurance, 7 1/2 minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. someone once defined politics as who gets what, when and how. in the bridge gate scandal the when was the focus, when and if the new jersey governor can put the scandal behind him. he's acting like it's behind him appearing on cnbc to discuss how republicans can win nationwide. >> if you get asked a question, answer it. that's all. and then -- >> you define what you do in terms of what we've been talking about this morning t ruling that came down from the supreme court

yesterday. was the supreme court right in its decision? >> who knows? the fact is when you're an executive, your supreme court makes a ruling and you've got to live with it unless you can get the legislative body to change the law or change the constitution. the point is why should i give an opinion on whether they're right or wrong? in the end of the day, they did what they did. i don't think that's the most central issue we need to talk about this morning. >> i would agree. >> question of when also came up late thursday. that was the eve of the july fourth holiday, when the press and the whole country was already on vacation. that's when christie and new york governor andrew cuomo chose to release a report on potential reforms for the port authority. that's the bistate agency that carried out the lane closures on the george washington bridge, lane closures carried out by a christie appointee, raising questions of corruption and mismanagement at the port authority. there are federal and state investigations into the conduct. governors christie and cuomo who

control the port authority said they would make reforms. thursday's report, a rather small five-page document simply acknowledged some of the agency's problems and pledged to address them about six months from now. andrea bernstein reminded us the last time christie and cuomo put out a joint release, it was to announce massive toll hikes on port authority bridges and tunnel. brian thompson veteran reporter from wnbc. you were listening to chris christie talk about the hobby lobby ruling saying why should i give an opinion on what the supreme court does? in new jersey politics there has been no more outspoken barber of the new jersey state supreme court than chris christie. >> the closer you get to running for president the more careful you have to be. no question chris christie has

been opinionated, especially about the new jersey state supreme court. all of a sudden u.s. supreme court issues a controversial ruling -- >> politics are a little different. me speak up? i wouldn't think of doing that. >> this report on the portd authority, classic news dump, it doesn't get more news dumb pi than the night before july 4th. there's not much news in the report. is it just the idea of having the bridge in the news that they're trying to avoid here? >> yes. one would assume so. that means about six months from now would be about right before new year's eve, wouldn't it? >> there wasn't a lot of news in it, if you read between the lines and you see where they're going, they're really going in a multitude of directions. it's too much for us to explain right here, with one exception. they're not going with any kind

of clarity to make the one reform that would make any difference to the future of the port authority. not just chris christie and his politicizing of the agency, he did what many governors before him had done. he bought into what new york governors had done, and they were using the port authority as a big piggy bank for whatever financial reasons they may want to use it for, big projects, avoid tax hikes, you name it. that's all the portd authority has been for about the last 25 years or so. and from that standpoint, the only way you're going to get reform in my opinion is to divorce the 12 board of director members, governors of it, commissioners, from being direct appointees of the two governors. new york gets six appointees to the commission and new jersey gets six appointees, no matter who the governor is. if you're an appointee of the governor and you serve at the

pleasure of the governor, what are you going to do? you're going to do what the governor tells you. steve, you, sir, can be a port authority commissioner. >> i've seen the benefits that come with that. i wouldn't mind working there. let me ask you, the other sfaz of this, this coming week was supposed to be originally another hearing new jersey legislative committee looking into it. the new witness the head of the after floor reese unit. bill barone any on the 13th of september when the closure came to a head and pat foy sent the e-mail saying federal and state laws are being broken, the person in the governor's office was regina, egea. it's been move to the 17th. what are you interested in hearing from egea? >> what i want to hear from all of these people, quite frankly, a dozen or so. but what you want to hear from them and i'm not sure quite

frankly the committee is prepared to ask this question, even the democrats, i want to hear more about the culture of that office, because nobody has been able to show any kind of link, beforehand knowledge of governor christie with this decision made by barone and while stein and bridget kelly. i'm not looking for that at this point. what i am looking for is to understand the workings of this office and how they politicized or continued the pollicization of the relationship between the governor's office and the port authority and how that was allowed to happen and whether or not she can shed light on that, that's what i think the committee has to nailed her on, if it's going to get anywhere on this thing. >> the headlines, 13 more subpoenas that went out a few weeks ago. pat foy from the new york side, he's supposed to come down. phillip kwan who perhaps helped

bill ba roney with that misleading testimony, he's supposed to testify. mike duhaime, adviser to chris christie. when christie last december said nobody on my team knew anything about this, due mahan /* haim w saying -- this is going to be the story of the summer in trenton. brian thompson, one of your many appearances this summer. appreciate the time as always. thank you for coming in. from pop culture to the politics. the '90s are back. we'll get into our time machine on the other side of the break. that's why i'm so excited about these new milk-bone brushing chews. whoa, i'm not the only one. it's a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. clinically proven as effective as brushing. ok, here you go. have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth? the twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line,

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nbc passed on the pilot. the network gave seinfeld the rest of the money it needed to complete season one. after a long hiatus there was a season two. that second season got off to a rocky start when it was delayed by the start of the gulf war in january of 1991. by season four, "seinfeld" entered the top 30 in the nielsen ratings. the rest was history. monica lewinsky resurfaced with a piece in last week's monte fair. you can't go without hearing about the clintons. bill clinton won the white house in 1992. it could be january 2025 that the clintons leave the white house. let's not forget the president in the 1990s, al gore as a potential 2016 contender. major republican name, jeb bush, the brother of george w. is

exploring a presidential campaign of his own. might as well throw this guy in, too. vincent a. transformed the city of providence, rhode island and sent away to federal prison. he's back and trying to win his old job in an election this year. it's not just politics, not just seinfeld. a slew of '90s television shows are set to be remade. remember "boy meelths world," "the magic school bus." "power puff girls." i lived through the '90s and don't remember all those. they're coming out with a sequel to "independence day." how have they shaechd us? back here with me we have ann lewis, communications director at the clinton house. lynn win stead, co-cry eighter of the original daily show back in the '90s and joe rig vul da

who played on the sitcom "murphy brown." thank you for joining us. thank you forgetting up so early out there. liz, i'll start with you. the '60s were about proi tests. the '70s were about malaise. the '80s about greed. what were the '90s about? were they about nothing, like "seinfeld?" >> for me the '90s were about watching media explode. all of a sudden cable networks became crazy. "the daily show" was allowed to be created because we were not only observing politics and media makers, but also watching what happens when you have too many cable networks with too many things, hours to fill and doing it really badly. >> was cable news sort of -- when "the daily show" was created, it was 1996. >> '96.

there was basically cnn. fox came in october and msnbc came about a month after we launched. the evening landscape was crazy magazine shows. it was like, your mattress, what you don't know might kill you. any time there was a swing going back, it was constantly faking and scaring us. when we launched, i said to comedy central, it's not enough to just cover the politics and the politicians. it's really about becoming what the media has become? for me that was a big part of it. >> joe, to bring you into this, i think everybody remembers "murphy brown." it ran from '88 to '98 on cbs, a ten-year run, back in 1992, it became one of the major issues in a presidential election and what kicked it off was a television news woman, single

woman, she became pregnant by the jerry gold character. she was not going to marry him, raise the child on her own. dan quayle, vice president at the time gave this speech. >> it doesn't help matters when prime time tv has murphy brown, a character who supposedly epitomizes today's highly intelligent political woman, mocking the importance of factors and calling it just another lifestyle choice. >> if you could, take us back to that moment. do you remember where you were when you first heard about that speech? >> i don't remember exactly where i was, i knew it was a storm, i'll tell you. it was so big. we didn't -- there we were just trying to do our comedy show, get a couple of laughs. all of a sudden he comes out with this speech. it put a tremendous amount of pressure on this show because we had to red spond to that. everybody was waiting. we ended up that next season

getting a gigantic rating because everybody wanted to see. you couldn't go far enough for the left. you went too far for the right. we were in a very tricky situation. we didn't want to be a political sort of ball that's going to get thrown around. we wanted to dour comedy show. >> the episode you ended up doing at the start of the next season, the scene i remember was you, your character, talking to the murphy brown character saying, don't take this guy seriously, it's dan quayle. >> i know. all the promotion ts and everything, i kept seeing myself going "it's dan quayle." that was the first time literally we had to put metal detectors from that point on. everything changed from there. we had newt gingrich on the show. people came on the show. all the news reporters, politicians. it was remarkable. from that time it was a trickier balance that we had to go through. >> ann, was that a turning point, the "murphy brown"

episode itself. the '92 campaign, i remember bill clinton on the donohue show. that was a pivot point where this merger of the media world and political world, that's when it happened. >> that's exactly right, the '92 campaign. bill clinton was using again alternative media any way he could get to connect with people. saying it now, it sounds foreign, possibly common sense, right? you're a candidate and want to get out where the people were. at the time this was really unusual. bill clinton was out there. he did talk shows. he did the kinds of programs -- by the way, the kinds of programs that women watched, 1992 was in many ways the year of the woman. a lot of women got elected. a lot of women voted. the second piece, and i was thinking about this, it is the year in which we saw relationships other than married people. whether it is seinfeld or murphy brown or a whole series afterwards, not everybody comes two by two. the world is not know's arc.

you started seeing different kind of programs, yes on television, yes on cable. it was also the decade of the internet. you had cable and you had cable coming back on the internet. so clearly it was a 24-7 news climate. >> that's interesting. we've got to squeeze a break in here. i want to pick it up with how the cultural moors have changed. it's basically been a generation, how they've changed and how the roots of the '90s, what they've sprouted into today. we'll pick that up on the other side. 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!"

of swedish experience in insidperfecting the rich,ars never bitter taste of gevalia. we do it all for this very experience. [woman] that's good. i know right? gevalia. back talking about the '90s and how we're still feeling them today. we're talking the "murphy brown" episode. the cultural context, if you want to make it political, this is a democratic party worried about culturally conservative voters. this was where republicans saw an opportunity to make democrats the party of murphy brown. we have culturally come a long

way from that. >> have we? what happens is, that happens and cut to now where an outspoken single woman who is on twitter or on the internet is now, not only has the vitriol of dan quayle or who has access to somebody with an opinion. for me it looks like we've moved backwards with more information and more media. now, the more you put something out there that's alternative lifestyle oriented you're slammed for it. >> a lot easier to hear from angry people, people who hate you -- >> i guess the thing -- when i say things have changed and we've 3406d on, i'm thinking politically, i the democratic party of bill clinton, there was the fear of people said whether it was don't ask don't tell in '93 or defense of marriage act in '96. hey, don't want to go too far on the cultural issues because there will be a backlash. now in the wake of hobby lobby, it's embracing this is our coalition, this is the future,

no bones about it. >> i think so. i think any party who doesn't embrace the concept of birth control will lose. boiling it down to that, i think cultural issues means looking a your entire constituency and saying you matter and you matter to me. >> seems like a democratic sort of constituency and, joe, let me bring you back in here on what murphy brown represented, not just the issue of the single mother, but just murphy brown as a cultural phenomenon, could a show like that work today? could murphy brown work in 2014? >> i would think almost better than ever. people are hungry eto get on, they thought we were an actual news show very often. that people wanted to come on, even after that dan quayle literally wanted to come on the show, but only if he got to do a prepared speech that he wrote. no, it's a written show. >> dan quayle wanted to deliver

a speech on "murphy brown"? >> he wanted to say what he wanted to say and we said, well, it sort of doesn't work that way. also, if you recall, i think one of the things our executive producer said, the people that she was friends with were very different than our typical "father knows best" or this show or that show. their friends were single mothers and there were a whole realm of people that were friends that you didn't see on television. >> so, dan quayle, i'm curious about this. dan quayle didn't want to come on the show in some way. what was between the white house and the producers of the show, what was the interaction like? were they talking to you guys at all? >> there was some talk the producers, it was a tough nut to crack. it determining what we were going to respond or how we were going to respond to his show and his speech. so, there was lot of waiting, as i said earlier, hard to satisfy

everybody. but a lot of back and forth. what's the attack of the show, what are we going to do and, again, still preserve murphy brown which was not a political commentary speech. we had jfk jr. on the show, walter cronkite and it was a remarkable time personally to meet all these people. >> i remember, i can still picture her office on the show and all the magazine covers in the background and how many of them were "time" magazines were actual magazines of the show because they crossed over to news so much. i want to thank joe, it's so early out there, i appreciate you coming out. >> it's daylight, it's nice out here today. >> i don't feel guilty any more. s to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult.

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all right. time to find out what our guests think we should know efor the week ahead. >> a shameless plug.

an organization i found about a year ago is now launching its website on the 15th. it is a big interactive map that focuses with humor on the really creepy reproductive laws in all 50 states. we're taking that -- >> what is the web address? >> ladiespartsjustice.com. >> congress goes back to work this week, i use the term work loosely. here's what has to be on the agenda, highway trust fund. the highway trust fund is running out of money. if congress doesn't take action, we'll see tens of thousands of construction jobs and badly needed infrastructure coming to a halt. this makes a real difference where people live. it's up to the congress to act. and let us be clear, highway trust fund, interstate highway trust system this isn't a barack obama project this was president eisenhower. we'll see if this congress can at least bring us up to the '50s. >> and ann louis, a quick plug.

she will be back for a family edition. i want to thank all of today's guests for joining us today and this weekend. back next saturday and sunday at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. today on mhp how it could have a historic impact on the health and rights around the country. melissa is next. of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. [ male announcer ] cleaner, carmax is the best place to start your car search.e, great for frank, who's quite particular... russian jazz funk? next to swedish hip hop. when he knows what he wants... - thank you. do you have himalayan toad lilies? spotted, or speckled? speckled. yes. he has to have it. a cubist still life of rye bread... sold.

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