and we are glad you picked "the cycle" today. we begin this afternoon with crisis management at the white hou house. for yet another week, the news cycle seems to have gotten away from the president. the events seem to be controlling the white house and not the other way around. first we had ukraine. then the va scandal. iraq, of course, continuing its downward spiral. when it comes to dealing with these crises, the president is essentially damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. so far that appears to be how the crisis at the border is playing out for him as well. today the white house sent congress a $3.7 billion request. that's to help process the tens of thousands of children that have been captured at the border just this year. and that's nearly twice the expected ask. >> what we are seeking in

addition to authority are additional resources where immigration judges, i.c.e. prosecutors and asylum officials can be made available to expand the capacity of that system. >> in the meantime, the justice department today announced that it would start prioritizing child deportation hearings over adult cases to help speed up the process. president obama heads out on a two-state fundraising tour tonight. that trip will take him to texas, which is, of course, a major part of the story line. while the white house has resisted calls to visit the border, the president will meet tomorrow with faith leaders in dallas. texas governor rick perry, who's been highly critical of the administration on this issue, has accepted the president's invitation to attend as well. that meeting is likely to do little, of course, though, to calm this latest fire storm. the president's critics are not just coming from the right.

joining us from washington, a hot point for the border crisis, is dog ug thornell,. thanks for being with us. >> hey, krystal. how are you? >> i am doing very well. as i just mentioned, critics of the president not just coming from the right here, some democrats also, criticizing the president's approach, in particular his desire to alter this 2008 law that affords some special legal protections to children coming from central america. senator diane feinstein said the administration should use that flexibility to speed up the system while still treating these children humanely with compassion and respect. senator menendez says he has serious concerns about rolling back back or diluting any domestic legal laws. how are democrats in general viewing the president's response thus far? >> well, it's interesting. you know, usually i check my

phone and i'll know, you know, what pelosi or reid's response is to the president's statement. i haven't really heard anything from them. they've been pretty quiet. so that tells me they're working through their caucuses and trying to get a sense of what the chc has to, you know, say about what the president announced today. i can tell you that there is -- you know, there's a significant portion of the party, the democratic party, particularly the chc and other immigrant rights groups outside of the party who see this as a refugee issue, where these folks are seeking asylum. it's not so much immigrants who need to be deported, but they need care. so when you put forward a policy which is more money for border agents and then you say you're going to deport them, that's going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. so, you know, i haven't heard much from people who should be the white house's allies. >> yeah, i mean, two thoughts here. one is this is obviously

humanitarian crisis and what we're dealing with in the legal framework is the fact that asylum processing is difficult. you have a judicial process and you have to figure out who stays and who goes. with children, there's a burden there. we recognize rightfully that the status of minors, particularly young children, is quite different than legal adult persons. given that background f the 2008 law here that does require this process and does, i think, make it take more time, if that's taking too much time or if that needs to be altered, you're a political guy, why doesn't the political branch here in congress sit down and take a stab at rewriting that law, at revising it, given the fact there is a current greater influx influx rather than just talking mess? >> i don't think congress can do much of anything right now. that's a very sad statement. but i think it's true. i think immigration reform is a

great example of that. on this particular act, which was signed by president bush and overwhelmingly bipartisan, you have a lot of democrats who don't want to alter it. they believe it's the right policy. that if you're coming from a country where, whether it's in central america and you're kind of trying to get away from human trafficking and violence and things like that, that there should be protections for children. i can see that point. but the larger issue is, why can't congress sit down and work something out? well, you know, we haven't seen them be able to work anything out, particularly on comprehensive immigration reform, which is something that should have been tackled a long time ago. >> yeah, and you're nailing something, abby, that we've talked about. immigration means people you want to legally let into the country through a formal process and asylum is something else. asylum is people who are in such an emergency that we recognize for religious or reasons of danger that we want to provide for them. not all of them, but some of them. that's another piece of this. >> and to that point, doug, no

matter where you stand on this, no one is saying this is not a very complicated issue. the president is in a really tough position. he's got a number of democrats saying, you aren't being lenient enough, you're not being compassionate muff. but also republicans saying, you're being too lenient, you're not taking a strong enough stand on this. the president heads to texas tomorrow. while he's going to meet about this border crisis, he's actually not going to the border. you have a number of republicans, including john mccain, rick perry, saying this is crazy, this should be your focus. and here's what i would say, doug. time and time again we've seen the president try to play both sides, right. this is a situation in which you've got to take a stand. you are never going to please everyone in politics. you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. who is standing by the president right now saying is, you are handling this exactly how you should? you're doing exactly the right thing. who's saying that? >> well, they need to build that echo chamber of support around this supplemental. it's going to be tough for it at this stage. i think it's going to be tough for it to pass congress. they need to build those

supporters. you know, certainly starting with your allies in congress and building out. you know, today was the first day of -- in terms of that effort, but they have a long way to go. the president -- look, i think he has done a yoman's job in terms of trying to push immigration reform. he's gotten no help from house republicans. he has been squeezed by folks on the left for certain things he's said. but, you know, ultimately, you know, this is something where i think his leadership is going to be demanded. i think getting out there today and then starting to build out those voices of support for this supplemental and also reengaging the fight on immigration reform has to start. he started that last week. i think that was the right move. he's got to keep pushing it. >> doug, in the central american countries where these people, these children are coming from, it is twice as dangerous for civilians as it was for iraqi civilians at the height of the iraq war. that's how dangerous it is for

people in these countries where the murder rate is as high as it is anywhere in the world, far higher than anywhere in the world in honduras, for one. that's why the u.n. high commission thinks we're going to have 90,000 kids come into this country this year. when they interview those kids, they say over and over we're coming here because of the violence at home. isn't america a place where when people come here, escaping tyranny, be it political tyranny or violence in their home country, that we try to take care of those sort of people? isn't that what america has always been about? >> i think it absolutely should be what america is about. myself and everyone who's on this panel right now, our ancestors came from other places. i think there's a political issue here that, you know, especially on the right with the way in which immigration reform, the issue of amnesty has been demagogued. that makes it hard for folks to take that position. the interesting thing about this issue is a lot of these folks

aren't just going to the united states. they're also going to, like, costa rica and nicaragua and other countries because of the conditions of where they are. so this is not an issue -- this has nothing to do with the president's executive order that he issued two years ago. it has nothing to do with the comprehensive immigration bill that passed the senate. this is the conditions, as you pointed out, that these folks live in, in their country. they're trying to find a better life. i can't blame them. but they're walking into a political minefield here in the united states that unfortunately i'm not sure really values their, you know, where they want to take their life. it's more of kind of a who wins and who loses politically. >> yeah, unfortunately i think you're right about that. that's a sad statement indeed. doug, thank you so much. >> thank you, guys. >> i'm going to have more on the immigration crisis at our border later in the show. but up next, did you hear the story about the guy suing major league baseball for showing him snoozing at a game? this is a wild one.

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back now with a legal spin. don sterling faces a deadline. an olympic hero faces life behind bars. and a sleepy baseball fan faces a world making fun of him and demands millions. let's start in l.a. where clippers owner don sterling has been ordered to appear in court next hour or else he will face a bench warrant. sterling did not show up monday, day one of the trial, that will

determine whether his wife shelly can sell the team without his consent. a neurologist hired by shelly claims don has alzheimer's. don claims he was blind sided by that. karen desoto is here to talk about all three cases. karen, what is this l.a. case going to turn on? >> well, i think there's a lot of legal arguments with it. but the alzheimer's is really interesting. now he can't be held liable for anything that he said. so you could go back to square one, essentially. >> so he could continue to own the team? >> absolutely. i would make that argument from the beginning. however, you know, the interviews afterwards, that's when all of the applicable moral standards come in with his contract and being the owner. >> but if he can claim that he has alzheimer's, then he's had alzheimer's all along. >> this is great for his family. i would have used the alzheimer's from square one and said he's not responsible for anything he's saying, which is even better. so they should have said the alzheimer thing from the beginning and could have avoided all that bad press.

>> it's a little less believable. >> it's weird the shoe dropped late on that one. another one in our lightning round. meanwhile we have the defense rested in the oscar pistorius murder trial. a big case, of course. he doesn't deny killing his girlfriend but argues he mistakenly fired through a door at what he thought was a home intruder. prosecutors say he deliberately shot her through that door. they used testimony from neighbors saying they heard her screams before those shots were fired. under that theory, pistorius would have known, of course, it was his girlfriend on the other side of the door. the closing arguments begin august 7th. this is a huge international case that's attracted a lot of interest. your thoughts here as we see the defense rest on the case they made and the emotion that arose. >> this case from the beginning has been really interesting because it defies common sense. the whole idea of it, it was valentine's day, shot through the door, somehow it was an accident. it didn't make sense from the get go. as a defense attorney, i could tell you most men, if there's an intruder, they try to secure their families right off the hop.

that's a problem. the big difference in this case is you're arguing to judges, not to a jury. huge difference. the defense in this case, obviously what can you do? nothing makes sense. the timeline doesn't make sense. there's not too much you can do except make excuses and hope and pray that the judge is going to give you the downgrade to the homicide. >> the downgrade, right. and the best argument that the lawyers can put forward here is, well, if this guy looks totally shaky and overemotional and almost out of his mind, not legally insane, but so out of it, perhaps that goes to in his theory of the case the bad judgment he showed in thinking he was shooting an intruder. >> yeah, i don't think -- you know, it's different. again, the jury versus the judge. judges are used to it. i've had people cry, faint, throw up, incontinence, fleas, lice, roaches. judges don't budge. she's a very seasoned judge. i don't think that crying -- in

fact, i think it would be annoying to her. it does appear a couple times she was a little annoyed that he was getting so emotional that they couldn't keep on going with the case. again, not a jury. you're not playing to people's emotions. this is a hard-nosed judge who's going to take the facts and do what she needs to do. >> very, very different situation. moving on in this lightning round, back here in new york, it's the case of the $10 million nap. well, a yankees fan hopes it is. he's suing the pinstripes, major league, and espn and two of its announcers after he was caught on national television sleeping in the stands. the video was posted on the mlb's website. let's just say some of the comments were less than flattering. he claims defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress. now, i'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a tough case to prove. karen, where do you see this going? first of all, does he have a case? and how likely is it that he will win? >> give him the $5,000 for the nuisance thing so they don't have to appear in court. that's where i would be going with this one. >> boom. >> right? defamation is so difficult to

begin with, even when you have a great case. and one of the reasons why this complaint was very sloppy. and a lot of people are believing that the announcers somehow had something to do with the name calling. that's not so. what happened here is that the fans were putting very nasty things on the blog. so obviously -- >> when does that happen? >> yeah, that's so weird. >> that never happens. >> i've never seen that happen before. >> we never experience that here. >> and of course the irony here is that as much attention as he got for sleeping, he's now getting way more. >> the other side of defamation. now everybody knows your name. everybody can see the video. before, you could have just slipped away. lots of people have done disgusting things on the jumbotron. but now that you've made an issue, people are going to know your name. they're going to watch the videos. >> what is he trying to get? just money? >> according to his mom, they tried to get a statement from him, but his mom said that's what idiots get for getting into people's business. so apparently he wants to be paid off for people being

idiots, which doesn't happen. it's very difficult. major league baseball and espn are not going to be held liable for fans on the internet saying hateful, ugly things. >> karen, are you available to take a nonlegal question? >> sure. >> why is it so embarrassing to sleep in public? i mean, you see this on the train. people say don't sleep on the train. sometimes you're really tired. >> well, if you're taking up more than one seat, it's illegal. >> i think it's more embarrassing to eat on the subway. >> you may have issues with those people. what is it in the human psyche that we feel like, you know, sleep really shouldn't happen in public? >> i think that sleeping in general is a fine thing. i think it was the comments on top of it with people calling him names and why he's sleeping and maybe he's an alcoholic. you know, you could have some damages. and 45,000 people, by the way, screaming and he's not budging. >> it's funny. >> he's a deep sleeper. >> seems like this is the sort of thing that makes americans hate the justice system. that you can bring this

frivolous lawsuit. >> john boehner can do it. >> anyone can bring a lawsuit. this is one of the things you have to make a decision as an attorney. do you fight it, or is it going to cost you more money to just give them the $5,000? >> you might as well go back to napping. >> karen desoto, thank you very much. up next, for all the talk of raising the minimum wage, there's a bigger problem holding workers back. first, let's get you caught up in the storm cycle. we are tracking another afternoon of summer storms. 44 million americans are watching the skies, or at least maybe they should be. the midwest and northeast are once again under the gun following more than 250 storm reports on monday. and the worst of it still to come. expected to hammer areas like new york city tomorrow. hey, look at the bright side. it could be worse. check out our coverage of the massive typhoon hitting near taiwan. it's all at weather.com. "the cycle" is coming right back. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen.

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in is the ninja roller coaster at six flags magic mountain in california. it remains closed today while investigators inspect the area where the ride hit a tree branch and partially derailed. 22 passengers were trapped for hours. four of them were taken to the hospital with minor injuries. and the fourth of july weekend is over, but the summer of violence in chicago is unfortunately continuing. 82 people have been shot since friday. 14 of them died. mayor rahm emanuel has vowed to do whatever necessary to try to calm the streets. today, marijuana official became legal in the pacific northwest. washington state became the second state in the nation to allow it to be sold for recreational use. 24 stores that have licenses opened their doors to long, long lines this morning. only about 100 approved growers in the state. the state expects it will take weeks for the supply to catch up to the demand. and if you end up with the munchies, i know where you might be able to score a whole lot of potato salad.

$52,000 worth of potato salad and apparently growing by the second. that's how much cash zach brown from ohio has raised so far on the fundraising site kick starter. it started as a simple request, a joke really. he said, i want to make potato salad. as the donations grew, so did zach's expectations. for example, better mayonnaise. he's been hedging his bets from the start, admitting his potato salad might not be that good. he's never made it before. >> krystal, you're so good at this. >> great story. >> and turning now to the economy and a more serious topic. of course, growing income inequality continues to be a hot and important topic of conversation for millions of americans. and one of the main reasons that the gap between the haves and have nots is getting bigger has been the decline in union membership. but there are ways they're coming together to organize here in the city of new york. the rise of community based

organizations and worker centers are giving employees some hope and some empowerment. the book "new labor in new york" details case studies of this new way of organizing and how they could be replicated, potentially on a national level. the author is ed ott, the editor of that book, who also ran the new york city central labor council. ed joins us now. >> thank you very much. i was a co-editor. >> co-editor. thank you. one of the big shifts that's happened in the economy that's led to a decline in union membership has been a shift in the type of jobs. manufacturing jobs have dropped off. low-paying service sector jobs have been on the rise. it's traditionally been harder to organize workers in that sector. but you've seen some models here in new york that seem to be working in a way there. >> yeah, i mean, the whole economy's been reorganized over the last four decades. the model that worked for

industrial workers in a setting where you might be there 35, 40 years is not a model that's flexible enough probably for all aspects of this economy. so workers will find ways to advance their interests, defend their economic interests, and a lot of what the book is about are really experiments that have gotten traction and are taking hold. retail workers trying to come to terms with a collaboration between an existing, established union and community-based organizations that have deep roots in communities, m particularly communities of immigrants. >> yeah, in the book you have one example, a case study about restaurant workers. >> yes. >> you talk about them trying something that is called a worker centered approach. by that you mean it seems not that they would rely only on union leadership or what we might call professionals to represent them and their interest. you give the example of them, basic normal workers, waiters,

waitresses, whatever, being able to go in and be at the bargaining able and feel like they're part of their own representation. why is that important? >> for a group like restaurant opportunity center, roc, they were really dealing with issues that in the industry the unions had not engaged what they saw as sufficiently. for instance, who gets to wait on tables in the front of the house as to the back of the house is as much a racial and actual politics issue as it is union organizing issue. and they've engaged that question with a real practical approach of working with employers who they call high-road employers who are willing to make changes in the industry, invest in their own workers, and try to move forward together. so in that sense, collective bargaining wasn't the goal. the goal was really social justice. >> >> ed, i want to see if you can help me with a tree top perspective on what's happened to unions. the republican party has had an all-out assault on unions. before the '70s, there was a

feeling of the health of the american middle class is very valuable and very important to the health of big business and the richest americans. in the era of globalization, you see folks saying, we make a lot of money from overseas. the health of the american middle class is not as important to us, so the attack on the unions is easier and better for business. >> well, when i started my work in life, companies were measured by the quality of the things they made. then it began to shift. it mattered less about the quality of what they made and about the profits they made. now you probably could even talk to shareholders. they're not sure that they're a top priority for some of these companies. so the economy completely reorganized. in the process of that, they crushed the rights of workers to organize, and they reduced their wages. we've had a steady decline now for almost four decades in real wages. so what you're seeing in a group like the freelancers union, who came to terms with the idea that the traditional job as we knew

it wasn't there and almost 40% of the economy doesn't have an eight hour a day job. they built a contract that addressed the needs of workers, people who might be working many, many jobs at any given time. and they're growing like crazy because they've engaged a piece of the economy the way it was really reorganized. but this notion of workers' rights, people are now talking everybody from hillary clinton about the loss of democracy in this reorganization of capital. i think it's a real threat. part of what these worker center groups are doing, they're engaging basic fundamental democratic and social rights questions. >> supply and demand is a very real thing, and it's a big part of this conversation. question i have is, how do unions have power when employers can say, if you're not willing to work for $7.25, that's fine. i'm going to hire someone who will. that is a very real thing. >> i was brought up in a labor movement over 45 years ago where

we were taught you have to be careful in a capitalist society because there is no bottom to the bottom. that $7.25 worker is actually underbid in the marketplace for wages less than $6, $4 an hour. there are domestic workers that getting a paycheck at all is kind of a gamble. they're not sure they're going to be paid at the end of a given week. so part of the reason why we fight for unions, worker centers and legal protections for workers is that in the market, there is no bottom. that's the whole point. we mitigate market impacts. >> and new york, of course, a place where still there's a relatively high percentage of work who are are unionized and on the cutting edge. ed ott, thank you so much. i'll be talking more with ed after the show for our web series "krystal continues." check that out when we post it later this evening on thecycle.msnbc.com. up next, some of the smartest b-school grads in the country

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walk to end alzheimer's. visit alz.org/walk today. when you get an mba from harvard's famed business school, you can pretty much write your ticket to a high-paying gig anywhere you want. but last summer a group of those grads chose to forego the big money and skip big wall street banks, instead setting out on an 8,000-mile journey into america's heartland. their goal, to learn from small businesswomen and men with big ideas and give them the resources to realize those dreams. it's a program called mbas across america. >> he runs an innovative barbershop that recycles hair from its clients into come post to plant trees in some of the

most blighted neighborhoods in the city. >> he welcomed us in for a week to recruit a new team, turn his clients into evangelists and give him a larger network of support. >> my perception is they were going to come in and tell me what to do. that wasn't really the case. they came in and asked me what we did, why we did it, and how we did it. >> what happened that week didn't just change a business. it changed our lives forever. >> and joining us now is the man you just saw there in that video, co-founder and ceo of mbas across america. thank you so much for being here. congratulations. you just got your mba a month ago. >> thank you all so much for having me. >> this is a very cool concept. essentially folks that get their mba that have the education, the tools they need to raise money and build a company who link up with the people with the big ideas and run with it. >> for sure. you know, it started, three classmates and i at harvard

business school our first year not as an organization for business but for our lives. could we use our opportunity, education, skills, not just to make a buck but to make a difference. i think we saw this spiritual hunger not just within ourselves but within a lot of our classmates to have a life of meaning and a life of impact. and this journey showed us what was possible when you did that. they showed us the american dream was alive and it was our spob responsibility to help folks like them bring those dreams alive. >> many of my friends who did the wall street route are turning to this thing. i want to do something that can make money but also make a difference. >> right, and have some sort of impact and be out in the community or in what the president sometimes calls the real economy, rather than just the financial voodoo. i was reading some of this. i want to talk to you about shrimp. >> sure. >> you want to talk shrimp? >> sure, love shrimp. >> "cycle" loves shrimp. >> i'm a big fan. >> i'm allergic, but go ahead. >> there was this company that produced a product called saute

your way and had this great local product. but they were also rebounding after the deepwater horizon oil spill. you guys went down there. some of your folks and helped them out. tell us about that, and particularly one of the things you wrote about here on the blog that explained that it was different being out in the field in some of the case studies you get. >> absolutely. i think what's special about saute your way and carl and lawless turner and the business they're running is it represents two larger ideas we see. first is the story of new orleans, right. tim williams says when katrina hit, the whole city became a start-up. you can't talk about revitalization in america without talking about new orleans. and i think the city teaches us so much about how to come back from disaster and how to come back from hardship. so this company in this city is a great test case, i think, to show something to the rest of the country about resilience.

the company itself, i think this idea of having a made in america, not just made in america, but made in louisiana product is hard to make a business case, right. you go to business school two years, you're all about, well, what are the economics? the economics of a made in louisiana product are not always obviously great. but this is an sbep neurowho is dedicated not just to make profit but to have a purpose. and those are the kind of folks we think we ought to put the wind at the back of. so our team learned a lot. i think it'll be great to see what they do in the years to come. >> have you had folks that are skeptical when you come in? like, what are these couple of harvard mbas know about my business in my town? there can be a thought that maybe the ivy league education doesn't get the quote/unquote real economy. >> for sure. it was funny. there was an article about our journey last year. the first comment said, if a bus load of harvard mbas drove up to my business, i'd call the police. so we get it.

>> charming. >> i think i know that guy. he's been leaving me comments all over the place. >> but the fact of the matter is we recruited folks not on their credentials but their values. the first value being to care deeply about the mission. and i think this goes back to what my grandmother used to say. folks don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. if you prove that and show that to an entrepreneur and listen more than you speak, i have been shocked by the willingness of folks to welcome us into their homes, into their lives to work with them on the biggest challenges and opportunities their business face. >> you addressed your graduating class at harvard b-school. pretty awesome 17-minute address. it's on the youtube. folks can go check it out. telling a story about your life and how you got to this position from being robbed almost at gunpoint in your home, taped up. that unlocked the fear, let the fear that was inside of you go.

and you want people to do that for themselves. you talk about america having a dream depression where folks are afraid to become entrepreneurs. what are some concrete things that the folks who are watching who will not get to meet you, will not have you and your team come in and help retool their business, what are some concrete things that they can do to get out of their dream depression and get their dream project going? >> you know, my grandmother used to always say, well, you've got to name it and claim it. i think the dream depression of folks taking their dreams and their hopes and aspirations and hiding them in the darkness. the first step obviously is to admit you have a problem, right? say that you do have a dream, whether it's a dream for a business, whether it's a dream for transitioning your career, to say that i think is one of the more powerful things we can do. then look for help. so many of my classmates and friends, they have things that, you know, the tragedy of overachievement is that you end

up being paralyzed by fear of failure. we will fail. some of these engagements will fail. some of our dreams will fail. some things in america will not be solved. but that doesn't mean we can't get up and try again. so i think belief and claiming it and looking for a network of support is a huge step forward to ending the dream depression. >> really amazing stuff. i believe truly it is the future of business. you can really have an impact like this. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> up next, what will really take to bring america's auto industry roaring back to life? one idea is in the palm of your hand. [ man ] adventure, it means taking chances. it means trying something new. [ woman ] that uncertainty of what's to come. ♪ ♪

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it's getting warmer. that's why presidents in both parties have called for less carbon emissions and better fuel standards. >> i want to make sure that the goal i set by reducing gasoline usage by 20% over a ten-year period is a realistic goal. i know it's a necessary goal. >> so trucks like these are responsible for about 20% of our on-road fuel consumption. every mile that we gain in fuel efficiency is worth thousands of dollars of savings every year. >> makes sense. and there's no doubt that environmental rules work. although, many people do resent being told what kind of car to drive or to car pool more. there is another road here. several trends suggest that some americans are driving less

because they just want to, not because of a particular regulation. consider young americans today put far less priority on owning a car than baby boomers. almost half of millennials say they consciously choose to drive less. and over most of the past decade, the miles driven per american has actually fall an bit. now, we're not going to get global warming out of the picture through individual consumer choices alone. no one's saying that. but a rethinking of america's love affair with cars is a hopeful sign for some bottom-up environmentalism. meanwhile, many car companies do hope to reverse these trends. to help figure it all out for us, we have the atlantic's derek thompson. let's start with the culture of commuting here. you've written about the idea that, as i mentioned, young people less enamoring with their cars. why? >> we should begin by saying the vast majority of americans commute to work in a car alone. so they commute to work in the most environmentally harmful way. but that trend is changing. like you alluded to, the number

of miles driven per american's fallen every year for the past nine years. the car companies are saying, what exactly is going on? i talked to the head of market research for ford. she said one interesting thing that's happening is young people consider smartphones to be competition for cars. first, that doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever. you can't drive to a grocery store on your smartphone. you can't drive to a friend's place on your smartphone. but you can access a grocery store app and you can talk to your friends on a smartphone. >> and delivery. >> so it's replacing connectivity. it's replacing responsibility, a kind of patina of adulthood. you become a teenager. it's not about getting a car. it's about getting that cell phone. and the car companies are extremely aware of this, and i think that might be why they're making cars a little more like mobile devices. >> yeah, but, you know, part of it is detroit's fault. they used to make cars, especially in america that, you wanted, that made you feel like a man, that became part of your identity.

look at this. >> can you turn that off for a second? ♪ i ain't wasting no more time >> wow. that's really loud. >> yeah, thanks. took the restricter plate off, give the red dragon a little more juice. let's keep that on the down low. this is not exactly street legal. >> not exactly street legal. i mean, the car makes him feel like more of a man as he's in middle age there. detroit is not producing cars that are sexy like that. >> it's interesting. so i was talking -- there was a presentation at this ford conference in detroit. and it was the lead designer for ford cars. he said, there's a lot of different experiences you have when you look at a car. the first experience is the silhouette. then you get closer and look at the textures. then you get inside. it's not just a piece of art. it's a piece of experience. >> joe biden says all of that, i think. >> maybe joe biden says it all too. but for a lot of americans, i think looking at the alternatives they can use to get

around and to feel connected and looking at how expensive cars are relative to their options, you're looking at a generation of millennials, like you mentioned, who are emerging into their adulthood at the generatin of mill enials if you look at people 24 to 29 getting auto loans and fallen in the last decade. people aren't seeing cars the same way. >> i feel you didn't answer the question about the cool cars. >> oh, stop. >> what about the cool car? >> cool is a nice thing to have if you can afford it. if you can't afford the cool car because you can't qualify and $50,000 in debtor $12,000 of debt coming out of college, you don't have the option -- >> you're saying they are emerging -- their emerging market isn't -- >> smart phones are making them feel sexy, i guess. >> i don't think so. >> another thing that we think about mill enials, the fact they are less interested in having

the sort of space and distance that they are interested in and less interested in living in the suburbs and big house and gated community and that would any ses tate and they want to live in the city more. that seems that would be a piece of puzzle as well. >> cars became cool in 1960s and 1970s after you had the subur n suburbanizati suburbanization, people can't afford to live in the enormous houses 30 miles from the city -- >> wanting to live in a walkable downtown area. >> i'm the perfect example. it used to be part of the american dream, house with white picket fence and car now it's different, young kids, including myself want to be in big cities. i haven't driven in six years. if someone sees me on the road, run for the hills. >> we do. >> if i do want to drive in the city, i have a number of options and none is buying a car, uber

and zip car and before long we're probably going to have cars driving themselves. how can car companies get back on track given all of the new innovations. >> that is exactly the last piece of the puzzle, it's not just the macro economics working against cars and competition from other mobile devices, it's also the competition from tech no long cal solutions to getting people around. more public transit. more things like uber and zip car where you don't own the piece of hardware, you buy access to the hardware to get around. i do think one of the reasons why car companies are struggling is because all forces working together are going to prevent people from buying cars and buying as many cars as they used to. didn't have to be a driverless future. if it's a less driving future, in which miles driven per person continue to decline every single year, every single decade, you're looking at the greatly diminished car market in the u.s. which means they have to push abroad if they are continue to grow. >> it's going to be a rough road hear. >> roof ahead ahead for car

companies. >> it is a car pun. >> also, we forgot to mention, city bike, you did a whole series, biked around. >> that's true. >> it is interesting, young people have less of that ownership obsession if they have access to wheels, they don't need to always own the wheels. derrick thompson, thanks for being here. up next, why the words we use when it comes to crisis on the border matter a great deal. krystal made it clear straight ahead.

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we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, so we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. plus, you could save hundreds when you switch, up to $423. call... today. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? do not send your children to the borders, if they do make it

they'll get sent back. >> unaccompanied minors are streaming across the border by the thousands from el salvador and hon dur us, threat of rape or death. they are teenagers forced into the dangerous and horrifying world of drug smuggling. 12-year-old girls do not wish to be raped by the gang members who decided they quote, like them. there are 15-year-old boys who want something more than the guns and death the gangs offered him and threatened him with. they have been called migrants, invaders, illegals, but no one calls them what they actually are, which is refugees. according to the u.n. high commissioner, roughly 60% of these children are actually refugees fleeing violent persecution, not economic migrants of the type we've seen crossing into the u.s. in the distinction matter under international law, they are

guaranteed asylum and cannot be forced to return to the danger they fled. and it matters in the way we think about this crisis. we get a familiar conversation one about border security and amnesty and detention. if we properly understand this as a refugee crisis, we get a different discussion. in that discussion, the tough love approach that the obama administration has outlined thus far seems poorly suited to deal with the crisis at best and cruel at worst. so far the focus has been on accelerating the process for sending kids back to the countries they pled. yesterday josh earnest indicated that the administration expects most of the children to be sent home. the obama administration has requested dollars for tougher border security and warned parents, if they send their children, they will be sent back and run in country psas saying much of the same. in order to speed deportation seeking changes to a 2008 law

that provides special legal protections for central american children, changes some democratic leaders are balking at and made plans to provide additional aid to central american countries. the overall response has been focused on how to get them out keep them out. i get the feeling there aren't easy answers to the crisis but to figure out the right solutions we have to properly understand the problem. it's not tough talk and deterrence for illegal immigrants that we need but protection and safety for refugees. instead of a psa saying in essence, you're not welcome here. how about a process by which those persecuted can apply for asylum before making a dangerous trip and turning up without documentation. we need to do it remembering that the children arriving here placing their vulnerable lives in our hands. we may not have wanted that responsibility but we have it. your move, america. all right, that does it for "the

cycle." "now" with alex wagner starts right now. president obama said he would go it alone on immigration but it's fate once again rests in the halls of congress. it's tuesday -- ♪ >> the president is today asking congress for $3.7 billion to deal with the immigration crisis. >> i don't think a $2 billion check is the answer. >> what we're seeking is more efficient application and enforcement of that law. >> this is the imperialist presidency. >> what magic wand can he make to make this go away. >> the white house now says many of the unaccompanied children will not be allowed to stay. >> we have to be sure that our policies are not guided by hysteria. >> i have to alleged this few democratic governors in the state of texas and other places, the president would have acted immediately. >> there's a reason we don't throw th