booker are proposing would be a big step in the right direction. it shows that we can always find common ground, even with people we disagree with. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. children's hour. let's play "hardball.." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this challenge on our border. with 52,000 young central americans crowded on our country's frontier, the american people want the president to take charge. they see the network that create ared this chaos, cartels that exploit children, the so-called coyotes who smuggle people from honduras with false promises of easy entry and legality.

what they hate most is the criminal way the traffickers and smugglers are making our government somehow the bad guys. so the president acts to carry out the law while taking hits for his failure to stand himself on the u.s./mexican border to confront the crisis. the best immigration law, the kind the senate passed last year do in the face of the spectacle engineered by those we see here ready to exploit the desperate and the imperfect system. chuck todd is the chief white house correspondent for nbc news and host of "the daily rundown" on msnbc. wayne slater from the dallas morning news. politically, chuck -- let me go into more details here. tomorrow president obama travels to texas where he'll attend fund raise rs and meet with rick perry of texas to discuss the crisis is. today, the president announced plans for a border security surge. in a letter to congress asking for nearly $4 billion to combat

the flood of unaccompanied children pouring over the border the president writes, quote, this funding would support a sustained border security surge. his request includes money for more resources for border patrol agents, more immigration judges, torchbearers and prosecutors, funds to address the root charges of migration from countries like el sal are vados honduras and gut mall and working with central american companies in part to combat misinformation campaigns to lure people to our border. in a letter to the president last month, speaker boehner outlined his solution which looks a lot like what the president is asking for now. boehner's solution included more resources for border control agent as including national guard assistance. the deployment of additional legal personnel to process and remove aliens, various proposals to stem the tide of mie grapt amy grants and pressure to work with

countries like honduras, el sal are va dor and guatemala. chuck schumer said, anyone who came here illegally cannot stay. i will go to chuck on the politics of this. is there a real partisan difference on how to deal with 52,000 young people who were brought here by the coyotes and smugglers in some attempt to disrupt our system? i don't know what's going on. >> well, there is some difference. it has to do with parts of the democratic party and the white house where they actually don't see eye to eye. there is more of a split on this specific issue. because the one thing you didn't mention is the white house -- they didn't do it in this letter. they did it last week. they want to change the law, the current law right now, that 2008 law. remember there is the executive order the president signed that republicans say is what is being

used by these drug acartels to create the rumor and says if you come across the border you get to stay. it's the 2008 law which does not give the department of homeland security and border patrol the the ability immediately essentially deport the kids across back to their home countries in a quick manner. instead the 2008 law says they have to be turned over to hhs and then have are immigration. you could take two years. under that circumstance, most of the folks end up staying in the country. that's the other part. that will be the political, tricky part of this for the white house. they want to change the law. there are leading democrats who do not. dianne feinstein doesn't want to change the law. bob menendez doesn't want to change it. that's where the politics gets sticky for the white house. its members of their own party reluctant to change the law. republicans are willing to change the law, even if they are skeptical and distrustful of the

president and how he may deal with it. >> is feinstein doing to the coyotes and smugglers and cartels? what does she want to do with the flow that won't stop? if they are gaming the system, why does she want them allowed to do that? >> well -- >> i'm talking about the next year, ten years. why would they flood the system if it works to their advantage? they make $5,000 a kid or whatever. >> we have to not create an incentive. senator feinstein and menendez say you don't have to change the law to give the flexibility to the department of homeland security to speed up the process. when you talk to the administration, they say the way to stem the tide, be able to start sending planeloads of children back to honduras in the next two, threes months is to get the law changed. >> let me go to wayne slater,

positions on the ground in texas. is there a general agreement this system is being gamed by bad people, people who are exploiting the system for money, the coyotes they are called. are the cartels trying to get even with the government of the united states for getting tough on human trafficking and young kids for sexual purposes? how much evil is there behind this or sit mothers trying to get a good deal for kids? >> it's not mothers trying to get a good deal for kids, but that's the motivation of the mothers clearly who come with their children. there is a sensitivity in texas. i think obviously in the far writing there is attitude and among the democratic left there are other attitudes. the broad majority of texans recognize after years and decades of living on the border there are a couple of things going on here. one, the mexican-americans coming over in a disorderly way is causing problems. these are, by and large, people who people see in their

neighborhood who work hard, who are contributions in their communities. so that's one thing. this new group from central america, there is a sensitivity these are refugees. these are people here because of dire circumstances in their home country. if only obama looked like he was doing something. if he was standing there. most texans don't think because they live here they have to seal up the border. look like you are a leader dealing with the issue. this request is the beginning of that kind of approach. obama could go to the border. democrats and republicans here. >> i have an expert here to tell me why. is this a hurricane katrina in the making, chuck? >> i heard henry say that down

at the border. he thought president obama risked that. the white house gets stubborn. they don't like to be bullied based on politics. saying i can't believe you will do fundraisers. they came up with a compromise. they will have an immigration round table. they talked about immigration, talked to the governor but they were able to stay and say, we didn't get bullied going to the border. the white house is aware of the optics but he doesn't need to find out new information. they argue he already knows this is a crisis. >> wouldn't there be a photographer going to the news agencies, a.p. or one of the big papers dying to get on air force one near the president to catch

him looking out the window? won't they want the picture so much? it will be like w. somewhere near hurricane katrina looking out the window. >> i don't think the a.p. photographers will get that photo. nobody will make that mistake. i think, again, i go up to the politics the white house is fearful of and why i think jeh johnson could not bring himself to say we'll deport most of the children back to their home country is they don't want to look insensitive to kids. these are refugees. they are victims of lying drug smugglers, their parents' swag, perhaps. they are caught in the middle here. there is a sensitivity and the president is worried about alienating members of his party and base. he's not worried about alienating middle of the road voters. the politics of this could be different if he went on the border -- >> well, chuck --

>> and had the executive in charge idea wayne is talking about. >> do you know what botherses me as a citizen? i don't like big american companies deciding u.s. immigration policy. i don't want some cartel leader or coyote leader in guatemala deciding our immigration policy. the american people with their good judgment and fairness over the years should be making the u.s. immigration policy. if some bad guy, some fiend decides he can load up the trucks with kids, bring them to the border he can create his own american citizenship plan. this is what it looks like. these guys are taking control. they want to see the president there saying, no, we the american people decide on immigration policy, not the businesses who want cheap labor or the churches who want more commune cants or democrats who want more borders. the american people make the decisions. that would be the way it would

be thought through. they seem to have lost hope our government can make and enforce policiful that's what's going on. your thoughts? >> speaking from many people here in texas who look at the undocumented workers who have come here over the decades, they see them in their communities. what they don't like is not brown people in their community. these are their neighbors, who they work with. what they don't like is a president doesn't seem he has a sense of control at the moment. if obama got his picture taken with children and wants to say i don't know what the white house is doing. when you're talking about the central american refugees, if you -- republicans or whatever -- if you want to turn these over and have us turn them around and go to killers, gangs, dictators, very, very bad people

who will kill them, you talk about that. i'm not doing it. they will stay here until they are processed. >> let me go to chuck for a quick one. we expect as police commissioner and fire commissioner to show up when there is a big fire. does the white house sense the problem that they are not seen as on site as wayne stated? >> they are in denial about this. they push back and say we sent joe biden to guatemala, j are eh johnson to the border, the fema director. they totally deny this al allegation that they don't look like they are on top of the situation. they argue they are on top of the situation. the president being there isn't a big deal. as you and i know, sometimes politics is about pictures. pictures matter. george bush found out the hard

way. >> when the president was walking with chris christie he made good pictures. >> good pictures. he went to that natural disaster. >> white house correspondent for nbc chuck todd. thank you, also, wayne slater. coming up, an audio tape from are the old archives has hillary clinton laughing about a child rape case where she defended the accused. how will hillary's team respond? yesterday, jason chaffetz thought mitt romney would run and would win. power hates as vacuum. will romney fill the void because jeb isn't running? the pizza delivery man from north carolina who might help deliver a senate seat to the democrats. he could be the ralph nader of north carolina. that's definitely not his intention. finally, let me finish with this question. who fills the bracket on the republican side marked center right? who is the credible candidate to

take on hillary? this is "hardball," the place for politics. look after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. at every ford dealership, you'll find the works! it's a complete checkup of the services your vehicle needs. so prepare your car for any road trip by taking it to an expert ford technician. because no matter your destination good maintenance helps you save at the pump. get our multi-point inspection with a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more for $29.95 or less. get a complete vehicle checkup

only at your ford dealer. hillary clinton holds a lead over the republican field nationally. the lead is narrowing. let's check the scoreboard. secretary clinton leads jeb bush by just seven points. clinton 48, bush 41. against paul ryan, the same seven-point margin. 48-41. for clinton, chris christie trails by nine points. clinton 47 and christie 38 despite his problems. against rand paul, hillary clinton's lead is also nine, 49-40. the same nine-point lead over mike huckabee, 49-40. five match-ups, all within single digits. we'll be right back. to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas.

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coming back to haunt her. in 1975, mrs. clinton was 27 years old, newly married and running the university of arkansas's legal aid clinic. she was appointed then by a judge to represent a 41-year-old man accused of raping, believe it or not, a 12-year-old girl. the case had been written about before, but the washington free beacon, a conservative paper uncovered audio from an interview mrs. clinton did in the 198. she seems to suggest she thought the client was guilty. >> of course he claimed that he didn't. all this stuff. he took a lie detector test. i had him take a polygraph which he passed which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs. [ laughter ] but you know, what was sad about it was that the prosecutors had evidence among which was his underwear. >> by all accounts, mrs. clinton

a private citizen, wife of the governor, aggressively defended her client. the prosecutor in the case, maylord gibson, said she was a bulldog in the case attacking the credibility of the accuser, the young girl. she went after the forensic evidence which was mishandled by the authorities. she took some to an expert who confirmed the evidence couldn't prove anything. here is how clinton described what happened next. >> so i wrote back, told gibson that i had -- well, sorry, i can't remember his name but i cut out who's who. well, this guy's ready to come from new york to are prevent this miscarriage of justice. [ laughter ] so we were going to plea bargain. they said, what is this case. well, first degree rape. but, you know, he's dropping the

charges. i can't remember. something. >> well, this all comes out of the jar of the bizarre. anyway, ultimately the defendant served less than a year in jail for what was a capital case in the old days, a rape case. joan walsh from salon and msnbc political analyst. michelle bernard is president of the bernard center for women, politics and public policy. joan, let's start with you. i have listened to the tape. she laughs throughout it. i don't know how to talk about it. here is a guy. a public defender, assigned to the case. the guy was probably guilty. she thought he was. i have never been a defense lawyer or particularly sympathetic to criminal lawyers when they have a clever defense or a shrewd defense of somebody they know to be guilty. that's the way the law works. you don't have to like somebody to know the job has to be done. >> right. >> they talk about how the guy had underwear with blood and whatever else on it, evidence of a rape. the stupid police in the case cut out the patch of the

underwear with the blood and the evidence of a criminal act, rape, and lost it. she takes the rest of the underwear with the patch cut out to some hot shot guy in brooklyn, an expert forensic evidence. they are chuckling that they don't have the evidence and were able to say to the judge reviewing further testimony that there wasn't enough evidence left on the pants with the part cut out with evidence on it to justify that as forensic evidence. they are all laughing. she's laughing that the guy flungd the lie detector test which she said told her the tests don't work. i'm trying to leave it open. >> hes passed the lie detector test. she said it convinced her they don't work. liberals don't believe in them. that's consistent with her belief. it's not a fun tape to listen to. i won't sugar coat it. this is what defense attorneys do. this is the foundation of our democracy. you are entitled to a competent defense lawyer.

sometimes you get a bad one. this guy got a good one. >> is it laughable? you have a rapist off for raping a 12-year-old? why is she laughing? >> i'm sure she would take the laughter back. she's laughing about this judge. she's laughing about the bad handling of the evidence. criminal defense lawyers deal wit all the time. they have to bonn top of it. it was the law. she didn't do anything wong. >> i wish the it was that. >> she's having a casual conversation. >> unfortunately it's worse than that ft she laughs about the fact she calls it a miscarriage of oh justice if the guy is convicted as if it's a joke. it would have been justice. here's more from the audio with later secretary clinton. the key piece of evidence was the defendant's underwear with traces of blood on it. it was mishandled while in police custody and partly destroyed.

they took out the patch with blood on it. on the tape clinton talks about going to the judge to get the underwear independently tested. let's listen. >> i had to go to maupin cumming nd and convince that i had a right to see the evidence. i said, what kind of evidence is that? you know, a pair of oh under pants with a hole. of course the crime lab had thrown away the piece they cut out. it was really odd. i mean, i plea bargained it down because it turned out they didn't have any evidence. >> 12-year-old rape victim. obviously a victim. >> absolutely. >> blood on the underwear. the guy, she said it would be a miscarriage of justice if he was convicteded. it would have been justice. i have never been a lawyer. >> i think this could be a problem for hillary clinton. the new york times reports she was appointed to take the case. if you listen to the tape, in the beginning of the tape she

tells the interviewer that the prosecutor in the case called her and asked her to take the defendant on as a client because the defendant was looking for a woman to be their lawyer. obviously, a criminal defense -- a male accused of rape thinks he'll get more help from a woman lawyer saying the victim is falsely accusing him. the question is if she wasn't court appointed and decided to take the case as a favor to the prosecutor there are many americans who will look and listen to the tape and say -- >> she was court appointed. wait. >> please, joan, let me finish. this is very serious. this girl was allegedly raped and beaten by two men living in her parents' home. the second man didn't that to be accused. hillary clinton took the case. this is a woman who has been an advocate for women, children and families. she knew what the allegations were. she believed her client was

likely guilty of the crime he was accused of. people will say who is the real hillary clinton? she has a southern drawl on the tape which she no longer has. she believed her client raped this young woman who was in a coma, in the hospital. she did years of physical therapy. she ended up drug addicted, never married, no children. she's now speaking out saying hillary clinton ruined my life. i was a public defender and i knew early on i would have to be a prosecutor. i couldn't stand doing this. >> well -- >> joan, i'm almost finished. >> you're filibustering. >> people will ask why did she take the case when the prosecutor said, i've got somebody who has been accused of raping a 12-year-old girl and he's specifically looking for a woman. >> can i please get -- >> that will leave distaste. >> can i get facts on the case?

she was court appointed. the prosecutor asked for her but the judge asked her to do it. she said and the kwo"new york ts sa times" said it, too. she didn't want the case. she didn't go on to be a defense attorney. i'm not defending the laughter. this is the way the system works. you have presented the facts in a particularly twisted way that leave out her -- >> what was twisted? >> i would like to knows also. the facts are the facts. >> no. >> you look to the -- >> she was court appointed. >> if you're part of the electorate and you're a woman who supports hillary clinton and i believe if she wants to be the next president of the united states, she will absolutely be effected and have the job. there are people who will ask how you take a case where the prosecutor -- >> can we talk politics?

>> can we get the facts on the record? she was appointed. >> you're arguing she was court appointed and you say she wasn't. she was asked by the prosecutor to take the case. >> the prosecutor asked her to take the case. she said she was court appointed. i don't know if it happened before -- >> what's the difference? >> when you're court appointed, you don't have a choice. >> she did not have a choice. you guys, i'm sorry. >> i agree with you. i'm saying she wouldn't take -- she regrets taking it. >> if it comes down the republicans having the tape and they will get it and use it. >> absolutely. >> i think they will get this victim who was 12 at the time, now a grown-up, a country person. she'll be out there. >> she's been interviewed. i'm not saying it can't hurt her. i just think we have a responsibility to put it in perspective. perspective and facts were lacking here. >> let's put it in perspective. she was 25 at the time. she may have been a hot shot

young lawyer with those values and the way to look at things. i have watched enough about court cases to see tom cruise in action. when you talk a certain way, somebody interviewing you about being a hot shot lawyer. maybe we don't talk the way we like the to talk. i would put this aside. this won't stop hillary clinton from becoming president of the united states. i do think it's part of the process. >> absolutely. >> she has to look at it and say, do i want to put up with this stuff? yes. she'll have to and she will. >> she will. >> thank you, joan walsh. and thank you, michelle bernard. up next, the people's court, john boehner stale. this is "hardball," obviously the place for politics.

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in a new interview, hillary clinton said she would want meryl streep to play her in a movie about her life.

when asked who would play him in the movie bill clinton was like "drake." >> welcome back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. jimmy fallon returned from holiday break with plenty to say including his reaction to john boehner's plan to sue the president. >> here are is news out of washington. house speaker john boehner is threatening to sue president obama. for using executive actions to create laws instead of going through congress first. then obama shrug ared and made a new law that said, you can't sue the president. i can do this all day, boehner. john boehner wants to sue president obama. it will be weird when boehner walks into the supreme court and you hear. ♪ this is the plaintiff, house speaker john boehner. he claims the president abused his power to pass laws. he also claims obama promised to replace four tires on his jeep grand cherokee and never followed through. >> finally an update on senator pat roberts.

i said last night the republicans has been criticized for favoring life in d.c. over his home state of kansas. even going so fares as to rent out his dodge city home. senator roberts explained that an army captain needed a place to live so roberts rented him his home saying, now, hindsight, maybe i shouldn't have done it. he said, i am from dodge the city, i have been there 30 years, owned houses, rented house house,s, paid taxes, i don't know what else i can do. as you said, you can keep your residence there. that would be a start. up next, is mitt romney now beating president obama in the polls, ready to run this time against hillary? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. hought, "wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad?" so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers.

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here's what's happening. germanss are celebrating a world cup soccer shocker. germany disgraced host brazil today. riot police were deployed outside the stadium just in case. no reports of trouble so far. brazil fans left with the team trailing 5-0. it is their worst loss ever and the most goals allowed by a host nation. germany advances to sunday's championship game. in the middle east the gaza health ministry said israeli attacks in gaza killed 24 palestinians. the israeli military targeted a hundred locations in response to rocket fire from gaza. legal sales of recreational marijuana in washington state today. colorado was the first state to legalize it back in january. now back to "hardball." welcome back. mitt romney may already be a two-time loser in the presidential sweepstakes just as ronald are reagan was after losing the nomination fight in

68 and 76. there are signs there is a romney revival under way. it may come as surprising news considering the tea party's dominance. last night jason chafetz joined me on "hardball" and made this declaration. >> i think mitt romney looks at the polls that show him beating the president now if there were another election that he wants to run for president again. what would you advise him? >> i think he is going to run for president. he probably doesn't want me to say that. a hundred times he says he's not. mitt romney has always accomplished what he set out to do. >> you made news. >> i happen to be in the camp that thinks he's going to run. i think he will be the next president of the united states. >> since the loss in 2012 mitt romney has endorsed more than 30 candidates in local offices. he was back in the first primary state of new hampshire.

to campaign for scott brown. holding an event at the same farm where he announced his candidacy in 2011. his efforts sparked a draft romney movement. meanwhile he's clearly out there to say he's not actively running. >> would you consider another run? >> david, i'm not rubbing for president. >> 100%, mitt romney will not -- even if drafted will not be a candidate in 2016? >> i'm not running. talk of a draft is silly. >> i'm not running. one of the best lines ever. hillary isn't running either. more americans now think the country would be better off with mitt romney president. i think if jeb bush decides not

to run there will be no center right candidate to challenge rand paul and ted cruz. while there is something of a revival of late, is it possible mitt romney could give it a third rye in 2016? joining me is bloomberg's gene cummings and democratic strategist john treary. there is the right wing bracket, i like rand paul. probably kill him. running against ted cruz who i don't like. then the guy from new jersey or scott walker or jeb bush. they don't seem to be showing up. if they don't show up, mitt romney is back in the game. your thoughts to fill the bracket? >> it would be hard for him to get back into the game. he doesn't have it in him to run. he might try to get somebody else in there to run. mike pence is another one out of indiana. another governor who could step into the space. >> describe the personality of

mike pence. >> help me out here. >> let me give you the qualifications. 89% rating from the chamber of commerce. >> he's a chamber guy. he's a j.c.er from the time he was 12. i don't deny that. go ahead. >> he's the trusted by conservatives. if jeb bush doesn't run, it's wide open. he would have a nomination given to him. compared to ted cruz. if mitt romney does run he has to be a much better candidate. >> it will take a lot of thought. the problem was him. >> he said so. >> he knows that. looking at mitt, the film. >> let me be clear. we pundits don't decide who runs. in the soul of each person, man or woman, they decide. nobody on the planet thought

nixon should have run. they decide and we select among them. it's free choice, not free will. they decide to run are. if mitt romney runs and spends the money for the mormon connections, equity funds, the rich guys he knows, he's a player. >> he's definitely a player if he gets into it. no doubt about it. >> why wouldn't he run? >> one thing to consider is the party has changed. >> i agree. >> even in the last two years the party has changed because of the tea party pulling them to the right. bringing in a libertarian. >> i have to fight with you. here's my question. a republican guy has to go to his wife and say, i'm supporting this person over hillary clinton who will be the democratic nominee. he has to make a good case to his spouse why this person is a reasonable prospect for hillary clinton who has the greatest resz may. this guy has to make his case. i'm telling you. this will be a family fight in america.

the guys have to come up with somebody if they don't like hillary. you can't run rand paul against hillary clinton or ted cruz. you have to run somebody who can beat her. >> we aren't there yet. we don't know if chris christie will survive bridgegate. they want to go to him. we'll see if he survives. >> that's what bloomberg is reporting. >> they want to go there. >> so close in the polls. >> he's going to iowa soon. he's starting to get back into this arena. his big personality may not sell in iowa. we'll see. he's still in there. i wouldn't count him out. >> chris christie has the fire in his belly. mitt romney has been through it. his wife has been through it. >> she wants to be first lady. >> the other person is jeb bush. does bush run.

that's a big if? >> do you think he's running? >> if he does, all the talk is over. the other guy to talk about is marco rubio. rubio -- >> president of the united states. >> all the inside the belt way folks think he's the republicans' best shot. >> i think he's the republicans' john edwards. >> that's interesting. >> he's one of the more creative thinkers. he's no ted cruz or rand paul. >> we'll come back. i say mitt romney is running. you say chris christie is still in the game. we'll see. >> don't forget mike pence. >> up next, the pizza delivery man democrats hope will tip the north carolina senate race the democratic way. this is "hardball," the place for politics. e repair shop. when you get it back, the paint job doesn't match. the guy who owns the shop says "looks fine to me". of course, he's wearing red pants with an orange shirt.

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sean h ark ugh delivers pizza. he getses 8 to 11 point according to fourppp, a democrat-leaning poll. and savitas, a republican leaning one. not even enough to win, of course, but enough to effect the outcome of an already very close senate race. haugh does most of his campaigning on youtube, recording videos in his campaign manager's basement. here we go. >> i'm a libertarian because i know i'm not smart enough to run your life for you. i mean, i would think you'd be the expert on that. you know what burns me? that the state thinks it can come into my bedroom and judge my marriage. you don't have the right to judge in the first place. so get out of my bedroom, you pervert. it really doesn't matter how you feel about a woman's right to choose. it's her body and her mind. she is the one who's going to make that choice. we have got to stop spending more money than we have.

stop voting for politicians who do. >> wow. well, haugh is showing he might not have the resource to compete with the big dogs out there but given the slice of the vote he could capture in november, republicans are taking this pizza delivery guy seriously. sean haugh is running for the united states senate, he joins us now. a couple wise-guy question to start with. 30 minutes is still the rule? you have to have the pizza there in 30 minutes or get it free? >> actually that was a different company than the one i worked for which i don't want to name. i don't want to get them involved. that was years ago. >> okay. so 30 minutes -- >> they don't say that anymore. >> as a libertarian,vy a lot of respect for the philosophy of libertarians, it's the details i worry about. what's the bigbiggest, hugest, t expensive federal government program as a libertarian you'd like to see disappear and thinks think you can do it as a senator? >> war. we need to stop our war machine

that takes up so much of our budget in so many different ways. we need to stop intervening in the affairs of other countries. we see the results of that happening now. we need to bring our troops home, we need to stop arm sales and donations to other countries. we need to stop militarizing our own police here at home. and that's the one really big-ticket item that not only do i want to end, but i think that there's a majority of people out there from all across the political spectrum who are tired of perpetual war and want to have peace within this country and in the rest of the world. >> so out of the bedroom and out of iraq. >> oh, yes. well, what motivated me really to run was to stop all war. i -- that really is the main issue to me is something i always want to keep coming back to. i just felt like it was really important for there to be a voice in this race because i really don't count on the democrat or republicans to ever get out and say this war that's

been going on all this time, this insanity, and it needs to stop. somebody needed to get up and carry that message. >> so on social issues like same-sex and abortion rights, you're a libertarian. on issues like foreign policy, you're basically against the hawks, the neocons. >> yes. we see the results. we have this force now in iraq, isis, that's much bigger than anything we've ever dealt with before. and they're armed with our weapons that we either gave to them directly, thanks john mccain, or that we left behind in iraq. so, in syria, we're arming sunni rebels against government forces, and then right next door in iraq, we're arming government forces against sunni rebels. it's crazy. >> i'm with you on most of this stuff. i find it attractive what you're offering. it's an attractive and interesting pitch, and attractive mix. here's the problem. third-party candidates, since they can't get a majority of the votes, can't get a plurality of the votes usually end up helping

one of the other candidates. you might help kay hagan get re-elected because you take away from the conservative side, the republican side. >> well, i think that's kind of a philosophy of despair, like nothing will ever change. and there is a possibility that i could win this race. and i'm going for the win. we'll see ha happens. i just decided to get in there and let the chips fall where they may because i think it's very important to get that message out there. your vote is your way to tell the politicians what you want. so the more people that vote for me, the more votes democrats and republicans are going to have to sit up and take notice and say, oh, we're going to have to be more peaceful, going to have to be more libertarian, we're going to have to stop this war if we want to keep these voters. the social party worked that well in the '30s and that's, frankly, a motto that gives me hope. >> do you disagree with kay hagan on the issues you mentioned, choice and same-sex and the wars? do you disagree with her? >> well, i don't pay too much attention to what my opponents say to be perfectly honest.

>> i do. you don't disagree with her on those issues from what i can tell. >> i was interesting to find last night when i was doing a little opposition research that, yes, my position on abortion is exactly the same as kay hagan's. however, i'm preaching to a different audience in a way. i'm talking to people who are looking to vote for me. >> sean haugh. >> and to get these ideas across to them. >> thank you for coming on. i can't contribute to your campaign but i do like what you've been saying. >> thanks so much. i appreciate it. visit my website, seanhaugh.com. >> i might do that. we'll be right back. thanks for coming on.

let me end tonight with this strange absence of a challenger to hillary clinton. i'm not talking about a democrat contesting her in the primaries. that's a situation i don't expect to persist. i think real candidates in the democratic side will come forward to give her a run for it. no, the real m.i. amoua. is the republican who takes hillary on in the general, fill the all-important bracket of center right credible candidate who can challenge the democrats in all-important swing states like ohio. christie, i don't think so. jeb, again, i don't think so. i don't think he'll end up running. scott walker, not big enough. and so the question, who fills the bracket on the republican side marked center right credible candidate? who fills the bracket that will present hillary clinton with her greatest challenge should she go for the white house? i think mitt romney is thinking about this every day. thinking about how close he came in '12, how close he could be to

winning in '16. i think mitt will run for the same reason hillary clinton will run. you don't go this far and stop. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight, we are "all in." >> governor perry indicated a desire to speak to the president about this. >> immigration crisis. president obama is headed to texas to meet with rick perry. >> you either have an incredibly inept administration, or they're in on this somehow. >> as the united nations makes a historic plea to america to allow these families to stay. tonight, the latest on the humanitarian crisis on the border. then, israel on a war footing. as casualties mount in palestine. the specter of a ground war looms. plus, the bizarre cuban plot to take down a united states senator. with a