being down there fizz logically and psychologically, but in the long run, the payoff is much greater than the small inconveniences. >> fabian cousteau, thank you very much. thank you to your family, your grandfather. the cousteau family has taught us so much. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> what a dispute, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. the president is in the lone star state. he having a meeting with rick perry and other officials.

the immigration itself, no one >> good meeting with governor perry, local officials and faith leaders to talk about the steps that we have taken and that we need to take to address the humanitarian situation on the border.

>> i think you're right about that. it is a standard and understandable expectation, frankly, that i think is probably not just the press but people too, some portion of the american public. when there's a catastrophe, you go. so i think eventually, he's going to have to go. he's going to have to be strategic and smart about what he does. i agree with jim that he's got to talk to the border guards and the people working hard down there. he also should do some kind of humane thing with the kids just to show that we are a humane country and we care about these kids on a humane level, whatever ends up happening to them. i don't know if it's going to do him any good. when bush went to new orleans, it didn't do him a lick of good.

>> he was late. we have a law you can't just walk into the country. in fact, chuck schumer could be a tough customer, but he's also a liberal democrat. he says you come into the country illegally, you got to go home. you can't stay. basically saying, you know, what, they're going back to hell, they're going back to guatemala with danger in the streets, to el salvador, to honduras. there's nothing there for them, at the same time, he essaying we're tending thsending them ba. he's conflicted. >> he looked haggard and worn down and troubled by this. i think he is, what he might want to do in his heart, i don't know exactly, but what he probably has to do politically is very clear. there's no question, i think, three has to send the bulk of those kids back. some will get sanctuary, some small percentage. some small percentage might get adopted, but the bulk of them

probably have to be sent back. that's probably what american public opinion would support. but at the same time they have to be treated humanely while they're there. i think public opinion would support that too. none of this 20 kids using one toilet kind of business. we can't have that. >> what's the idea of how to treat these kids who were sent here at the will and ambulance the money of their parents. they were sent here by coyotes. all across the face of mexico, they get here to our border, they cross in and then they're apprehended and then we say we're going to send them back. what do texan people, what are your people saying? >> it's not a mood, it's a reali reality. you're seeing the churches open their doors. they're staffing these relief centers 24 hours. the food pantries are filling up. these kids are getting, many of them are getting their first meal in more than a month. they're getting water, clothed

and processed. people here are taking care of them. that's the amazing thing about this is that the rio grande valley, and these communities have separated the political piece of this from the humane piece. they do want this issue resolved. they want a law that makes life simpler to deal with this down here, but they are taking care of these kids in a way that sort of exemplifies what everybody in the country is talking about. >> that gets to the whole aspect of this immigration issue. it's almost as if we're driving our car as the country and putting the pedal to the metal and giving people a decent life who've come here, but at the same time we're saying wait a minute, no more illegal immigration. it's giving them a job illegally under the table or somehow along the way giving them real legalization, giving them a chance to become americans, all

that's a magnet for people in the future to say i'm going to take my risk in getting across that border. at the same time, we're saying let's double up, quadruple up the people at the border to keep them from doing what we are magnetizing them to do. it is really conflicting, intellectually and humanly, it's a hard thing to deal with, especially for this president who's a liberal. >> sure, it's very hard to deal with. that's always going to be the case. and we're never going to have perfect border security. we've doubled the number of guards from 11,000 to 22 those. there are more guards than there have ever been. more deportations than they are have ever been as obama said in his remarks earlier tonight. but it's just not going to stop that flow because of the basic economic imbalances. >> and we believe in the market in the country. and jim, more down there. we believe in the american

market. people go for a better opportunity. the hardest working person in this country is the person who just got here illegally. they work so hard. and so the american values system is reward the hard worker. let them stay. and yet we have these laws and this need to protect our border as any country does. what do you think the average texan down there would like us to do, long term? >> that's a very difficult question to answer. but in the past we've had this program where some workers were allowed to come across the river and hold jobs and go back and forth in a way that made it much more accommodating. so that's one solution. but as long as congress and the white house is hesitant about passing a law, word gets down to central america and what people are hearing, if i can just get to america before this new legislation is pasd i'm going to get amnesty. that's a big part of what's happening here. they think if they get over, they're good, they're safe and they can stay for the duration. >> and that's human nature.

junk people will not be singled out. in fact, they'll get relief from the government for not being deported. that signals these people, it's exploited. it's not just bad people, it's parents who want their kids to have an about thor world. we're looking at the people coming across. this is going to be part of our lives. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, the unmarried band of conservatives are out there talking about impeaching the president. the heart of the coalition was blue collar and rural white people. no more. can they rebuild the strong coalition of democratic voters needed for a tru national mandates to govern? our guest tonight says they k and we'll explain. and since winning, for now

democrats are relying on women. consider the bill they've proposed to undo the hobby lobby decision of last week allowing religious-based businesses from providing contraception. this is "hardball." place for politics.

hillary clinton now has an answer to those who say we've had too many bushes and too many clintons in the white house. in an interview with a german newspaper, the former secretary of state said the following. we had two roosevelts, two adams. maybe certain families have a certain commitment or predisposition to be in politics. i ran for president.

i lost to somebody named barack obama. my last name did not help me in the end. our system is open to everyone. it's not a monarchy in which i wake up in the morning and advocate in favor of my son.

welcome back to "hardball." the notion of impeaching president obama has become happy talk. and now joanie ernst, yes, that's the castration did the floating obama impeachment again. here she is in january. this january. she responded to a question by the moderator about what would happen if he committed an abuse of power. >> he is continually using executive order, he is making appointments without authority. so yes, absolutely he is

overstepping his bounds, and i do think that yes, he should face those repercussions for removal from office. whether that's impeachment, as a u.s. senator, absolutely. as a u.s. senator we have to push that issue, and we can't be silent on things like that. he has become a dictator. he is running amok. he is not following our constitution. and unfortunately, we have leaders who are not serving as leaders right now. they're not stepping up. they're not defending the constitution. and they are not defending you and me. >> yes, dictator. she said he's become a dictator. that video was obtained by a source from the huffington post. perhaps realizing her language in that video is not ten cal of a u.s. senator.

she later walked it back. "i was asked a question involving a hypothetical." i have not seen any evidence that the president should impeached. sarah palin after all this was out there pushing his impeachment on her facebook page. >> enough is enough of the years of abuse from this president. his unsecured border crisis, for me, it's the last straw. it kind of makes the batter wife say no mas. that's enough. on behalf of immigrants, we should vehemently oppose any candidate who would hesitate in voting for articles for impeachment. >> it's not just palin and ernst out there, jon kyl has thrown

out that word impeachment. and what does this talk mean to democrats? is this going to excite them or incite them? joining me is perry bacon and david corn. thank you so much, gentlemen. let me ask you, perry about this thing. it seems like it's the new litmus test. if you're asked about impeachment, i think this is going to continue now, they are going to be forced to say i'm just pursuing the guy. i'm not for impeaching him. it does seem to be setting a bar of craziness. your thoughts? >> it is setting a bar. it's telling you that the john boehner lawsuit didn't do any good. it was created to mollify people on the right who want to see obama taken on. obama has said i don't care what boehner thinks. i'm going to executive orders any way. and the sarah palins are mocking boehner too. what you're going to see are

republicans going to be asked do you support impeaching obama or not. he was very careful in how he phrased it. it's becoming a litmus test of proving how conservative are you? >> here's fox news' sarah palin. here she is on the manliness test. let's listen. >> americans, congress, those who are concerned about protecting our constitution and using the one tool that congress does have to halt what is going on, this lawlessness coming from the top. the one tool they have are articles of impeachment. let's get going on that. and it's not necessarily, sean, a lawsuit being filed by congress. because you don't bring a lawsuit to a gunfight. >> just remember this person we're watching here, sarah palin. despite ner attributes, she

impeached herself. she walked off the job two years in. what a strange person to be talking about impeachment. today speaker boehner was asked about her comes and he responded. >> sarah palin called your movement for a lawsuit against the president, bringing a lawsuit to a gunfight that president obama should be impeached. what's your response to governor palin? >> i disagree. >> what about those who tong about impeachment? >> i disagree. >> i love the face of this guy when he gets that very sad look. it's very human. why am i in this bunch of crazies. how did i get in this crazy car. stop the world, i want to get off. it's my god, why do i have to keep doing this. >> he's there, because he hitched his star to the crazy wagon. and that's why it's this dilemma now. i certainly hope that john mccain is feeling very proud

these days because without him no one would care what sarah palin had to say about impeachment. they've had this civil war going on for years. but it's been about the debt ceiling, shutting down the government, immigration reform. policy matters. but now, if this is going to become the defining issue, the republican party, are you for impeaching the president or not, it really is moving so far to the right and outside the mainstream discourse that they may never be able to claw their way back. >> here you have joanie ernst. she could well be elected as a senator. she's certainly qualified to get in this race. but her first instinct in that first time she was asked about it, yeah, we got to talk about impeachment here. and he's a dictator and he's run amok. then she was asked do you have any particulars, and she had none.

what is it besides ethnicity that makes obama somebody worthy of impeachment without any real cause for impeachment? there's something primordial here, tribal here. saying of course he should be impeached. why? i can't think of any reason besides he's barack obama. i don't want to push this too hard, perry, on you, but it is administration to have this instinctive statement. >> i think there is something going on. the tea party members who came in congress in 2010 and 2012, their view is, we came to washington to stop obama. we're using our power in congress to stop obama. and obama has now said thanks for doing that. i have my pen, i have my phone, and he's doing these executive actions and bragging about them. that has really made these republicans very angry. their view is, we're trying to stop this guy, he's working around us.

and that is driving all this talk about dictatorships and lawlessness that seems over the top. if you look at the policy, he's not accomplished much on executive orders. >> how can he be a weak dictator? he's the weak, they've argued, and by the way he's running amok and dictating our country. which is it? >> feckless dictators, the way they would put it. they've been trying to delegitimate mize this guy from the beginning. he's not really one of us. he doesn't believe in american exceptionalism, all that. and i think impeachment is the natural, logical place to end up. they pegged the needle. they're not at 10.0. they're at 11. and there's though where else to go. because once you talk about impeachment, you can't unring that bell. they're going to be stuck with

that. this is a true standard for being a true conservative. >> my question to you all, how can they think he's going to be a dictator, his last two years as president. he's lost the senate, lost the house. >> and taking away their guns. >> taking away the guns is nonsense. >> what are the last two years for obama like. if the democrats keep control of the senate, i would say gridlock. but if the republicans control the senate we're going to have something like mayhem, where like a hearing every day, really aggressive oversight. maybe the "i "word. this next election are what are the next two years like. >> if you vote republican you get the impeachment coming out. i give some sympathy to david

corn because this tape that got out showing the castrater, joanie ernst should have gone to mother jones. it normally does. you normally get all the good tape. now huffington has it. it's a nice day for you. >> please send us tape, if there are others out there. >> thank you. up next, the politicians americans wish would just be quiet and using the crude term, would just shut up. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪

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back to "hardball," and time now for the sideshow. creepy uncle sam is back. they first made their mark in september when they introduced

creepy uncle sam in political ads telling people to opt out of obamacare. ♪ >> gather round. the carnival is about to begin! the theme of the carnival, the man with your plan! >> think of all the money that went into that.

next up, love letters between warren harding and his mistress are said to be made public after having been sealed for years by the library congress. it shows how brazen the president was then about his 15-year affair with ms. phillips. the letters gush, it said, with obvious innuendo. i love your poise, a perfect thighs when they hold me in paradise. never thought i'd be saying that on television. david letterman got wind of the harding letters, and he decided to release some of his own presidential love letters. >> he's not the first president to have written love letters. so we have for you tonight some love letters written by former presidents of the united states. ♪ >> warren harding to his lover carrie phillips.

my darling, there are no words to show the sufficient extent of my love to you. john adams, my dearest abigail, your undeniable beauty quickens my affections. franklin roosevelt to elinor. elinor, nice hat. this has been presidential love letters. >> finally, a new poll released today asked voters which politicians they're sick of hearing from. so here now are the top three politicians american voters say they wish to be quiet. at number three, dick cheney. with 45% of americans saying they've heard enough from him. number two is jesse jackson with 51 where is. and no surprise here, number one, never to be heard from again, hopefully. 54% of american voters say they've heard just about enough

from the half term governor from alaska. there are people who cheer her every word, and they do exist. that's the pay dirt in this political world. are the democrats even in the game now? you're watching "hardball," place for politics.

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...and unleashes wrath. ♪ temptation comes in many heart-pounding forms. but only one letter. "f". the performance marque from lexus. hello, everybody. more attacks in gaza as israel begins a third day of air strikes and has thousands of troops near the border. former new orleans mayor has been sentenced to ten years in prison. and justin bieber has been put on two years probation for egging his neighbor's house. he pleaded no contest to

vandalism charges on wednesday. welcome back to "hardball." one democratic strategyist claims to know the answer to the problems facing democrats who may be ons the verge of a disastrous midterm election in which they could well lose the united states senate. his solution, old-fashioned politics and employing what he calls the bubba strategy to appeal to the appeal to middle class. dave mud cast saunders says quote finding a way to identify with the bubbas. southern slang for people of limited means and less education is not only useful but the democratic party's future throughout the south and rural areas of the country if the party wants to hold the senate this year -- house of representatives any time soon, it must travel again down many country road at least philosophy.

you can get hell after lot more with the stories than the issues. are they selling their personal stories lines instead of their positions on the issues? david mudcat saunders is and sherry saunders. the home of the 2016 republican convention, by the way, is in cleveland ohio. let's go to mudcat. tell us your feeling about why aren't working class regular noncollege, if you will, white guys, not voting democrat these days? >> we don't go after them, chris. that simple. as brown will tell you and god bless brown for watching out for them, but it a cultural thing. democrats, you know, my party doesn't respect the culture like they should.

>> when you think of democrat in a bad way, what do you hear? what do you smell? >> i smell -- we're the party of the intellectuals. but at the same token, we can't count. in my native south for instance, 37 % of the people in the united states in the census and went turn our back on those people? i think it is electoral insanity and immoral. >> senator, you thank you for joining us. you went to yale but doesn't let it show. which i think is a good thing. you may not agree. how do you succeed? >> mudcat i grew up watching jim mudcat grant pitch for the cleveland indians. thanes with an announcer. he was my favorite player. i know that has a lot to do with your name. >> that's retail product.

>> i grew up in a town not too different. it was in the north but a lot of people from appalachia lived right on the edge of my town or went to my town and went to high school with a lot of them. it is understanding and not being of them with you i think mark warner is a good student of this, you don't look down on people. you don't have to -- you don't have to hunt and be a hunter or necessarily be a fisherman, and all that. but you've got to understand it and like it. all the more, you have to have their back. that's minimum wage. trade policy. mudcat in that article talked about what we did with globalization blew the top of the fire hydrant. it did. the people hurt the most, probably by globalization, in my state, people like mansfield. mansfield, these small towns and middle class cities that don't have much middle class any more because of what is happening. we is have to have their backs.

they've got to know we're on their side. and we don't talk assertively like that enough. >> mudcat, kill yourself now and tell me how you would be a corner man for hillary clinton next time. corner man. loyal corner man. and help get her elected president. what would you advise her? >> i don't know how to advise hillary clinton, to be honest, chris. if you look through where i live and good to small town virginia, you go to small town ohio, it's the same thing. looks like sherrmond went through and didn't burn anything. like senator brown made reference to knocking off the tire iron. which they did. we go further with favored nation. status for china. why can't we have favored status for the american workers. >> you think nafta and all the free trade arguments, and people in ohio, west virginia, pennsylvania, places hit hard by

foreign competition. >> this of course it has. >> senator? >> yeah, no doubt. no doubt. and i think hillary has an opportunity here. this president right now has done better at more aggressive on enforcing trade rules than his predecessor. i don't see quite eye to eye with him on trade. i think he has to be better on it. i think that hillary need to make it clear that these trade agreements don't serve american workers. don't serve american small business. they devastate community in places like southwest virginia and southeast ohio. really all over the midwest and south. and she needs to stake out a position that you invest in american workers. don't pass the trade policies.

enforce the rules. look at trade in a way that's going to lift workers up, not pull them down. and even when you don't need jobs, pull down wages so that workers in small town and rural ohio it seems, there is still plenty of fact, not plenty, still a number of factories in places like jackson, but the wages have beeflatatnd these workers are falling out of the middle class. part of that is unionization. we have to be way more aggressive in helping workers join unions if they choose to. most want to. hillary i think recognizes that. she need to be assertive about it. >> mike, i think you add great argument here. i hope everybody listens. i think there is an attitude between the wine and cheese liberals. west coast hollywood people, they don't care about the below the line people they call them. crew people that put the movies together. but my question to you is the democrats see this thing they

can win with david and this genius guy that works for president. just get minorities to vote and young liberals to vote and get liberals to vote and labor to turn people out and you don't need the white people. that seems to be the strategy. just pulling operations. really good polling operation. and going the democratic way, you don't need white people. they will be a minority some day. that attitude does tick off white people. your thoughts? and cost you votes. >> well, the deal is, is that if you come to my part off the world, and you get a white bubba to vote for you, that a two-fer. my party need to learn how to count. if i get a vote if southwest virginia for democrat, i don't get one vote, i get two because i took one away -- >> who did you vote for in the last governor's race? >> i wrote in somebody. >> you didn't vote for mccullough? >> no. >> you didn't vet for the democrat?

>> no. >> don't you like this show? thank you, mudcat. i today get some information out of you. senator sherrod brown, we are big fans. hope you balance out the republican move to get the convention up there in cleveland. we figure you are part of that counter punch when they put you on the ticket. up next, supreme court hobby lobby decision, which obviously affects women. we will talk about that. and trying to overtake that decision by court. hobby lobby. when we come back. so this board gives me rates on progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive and they're them. -yes. -but they're here. -yes. -are you... -there? -yes. -no. -are you them? i'm me. but the lowest rate is from them. -yes. -so them's best rate is... here. so where are them? -aren't them here? -i already asked you that. -when? -feels like a while ago. want to take it from the top? rates for us and them. now that's progressive.

governor chris christie trying to ignore potential legal problems and keep his eyes on the presidency in 2016. new jersey governor is hitting two early primary states this month. next thursday in iowa for three fund-raisers out there for the caucuses. and then in july 31st, christie heads to new hampshire for the first of the nation primary. last week christie beat gun safety legislation that would have limited capacity of magazines. no doubt he hopes will help him

win votes in concerned republican primaries. he is still running for president. we'll be right back. [[[jçj)yq

we're back. last week u.s. supreme court as we all know ruled in the hobby lobby case that business owners could decide not to cover certain forms of birth control for employees if they, the owners of the company, object on religious grounds. the court says forcing owners of closely held private companies to cover them would violate their religious freedom restoration act which congress passed and bill clinton signed in 1993. to be clear, owners of hobby lobby didn't object to pills and

condoms but specific forms that they consider to be abortion. iuds could prevent a fertilized egg to implant on the uterine wall and they shouldn't be forced to cover such. to be clear, however, the owners of hobby lobby didn't object to all forms of birth control like pills and condoms. they say certain morning after pills as well as iuds could prevent a fertilized egg from implanting on the uterine wall. according to an ob/gyn. only one form of iud may affect implantation. the others do not. congressional democrats unveil legislation they say will override the court's decision of last week, no federal law, including the 1993 legislation could be used for for profit lawyers. the bill's co authored by senator patty murray of washington state. here she is. >> i think women across the country and men are outraged by the decision by five supreme court justices that all of a sudden says your boss can decide what your health care consists of.

i think we have a very good chance of rewriting the law so that the justices can't take away women's ability to make their own health care choices. >> the bill would come up for a vote by next week. even if it gets through the house of representatives and the senate. we'll have to see, but stephanie is the present of emily's list, and nathan diamond is the executive director of the advocacy center. give us a case now why you think this legislation will work to counter manned what happened last month with the supreme court. >> well, it was clear that the democrats of the united states senate needed to act. the court isn't going to protect women in this country, so the democratic women of the united states senate are going to. so i'm not a legal expert. but i'll say we need to alter this law, so we can assure that women across the country no matter where they work.

and we were talking about working folks earlier, no matter where they work, they have the same access to all pieces of birth control that they possibly need. they need access to health care, and that's what this law is going to attempt to do. and i certainly hope that the republicans see the wisdom ensuring that every american woman and their families have the same access to health care. >> nathan, why do you support the supreme court ruling of last week? >> thank you, chris. we supported the supreme court ruling not because we in the orthodoxed jewish community have any opposition to contraception, but we have a strong stake in -- a very strong protection of religious freedom. and especially when the government can serve an important interest in ways that have nothing to do with overriding somebody's religious freedom. we ought to try to have a situation where the government interest is served and religious

freedom is also respected. and what's unfortunate it seems about the legislation, that it was introduced today. was that rather than find another mechanism to deliver to women the contraceptives and the other health care services that the government wants to deliver to them. and the supreme court in hobby lobby said they could deliver to them through another channel, the legislation specifically decides to go after religious freedom again, and say that's the way that we have to deliver women, their health care services by infringing on religious freedom. we can't have a win-win scenario, we have to play a zero sum game. >> if the complainants or the plaintiffs in this case, the hobby lobby group, i know nothing about, except they're recognized to have a religious foundation to their company. i'm not used to that, but that's apparently the case. they believe that abortion is caused by these forms of birth control, the iud and the morning after pills, that's their argument, that's their belief. can you force people that this

is murder by their standards, how do you force people to eat that and say, live with it? is that what you want to say to these people? live with it? you have to do it for the employees? >> no, this -- we have to remember, this is about women's health care. >> no, what about the employers of the company? >> it is about birth control, and there's research and -- >> they say it's abortion. >> everyone stands up and says, this -- that is an opinion, but we have to go with science here, and that's not what this is about. and i -- let's not forget. >> well, the science on iuds by the way -- >> the science -- >> are you sure of the science that the iud doesn't prevent the implantation of the fertilized egg. >> when you explain it, the people of mississippi voted down the personhood amendment which would ban these types of birth control, the reason they did so was because it was going to ban these types of birth control. women need access to health care, this is a big piece of that access. on top of it, the court on

thursday issued an emergency order that expanded it beyond those four. we are on a slippery slope here that is expand tgs already. >> okay. well, we know the fight, everyone watching, the supreme court shouldn't be forced to pay for something in insurance coverage which they personally believe is abortive, even though the employees may want it many nathan diamond thank you for coming on. this is a hot issue, probably not going away. we'll be right back after this. you'll want to go to for the rest of your life. we've helped over 8 million people find that dentist, and we can do the same for you. call 1-800-dentist today. ♪

let me finish tonight with that question about white voters, especially men and their vital role in their 2016 presidential election. if white men vote the way they've done in recent national elections. it will stand in the democratic party getting a mandate to govern, not just hold office. hillary clinton can win with a near majority. she cannot win the strong plurality that will give her a chance to carry the congress into office with her. if she doesn't do that, she could be lame duck from day one. this is the problem, theyen cat just keep going to their base. they need to reach deep into the american middle. they need to grab back the people who didn't vote for obama the second time. without pushing the point too hard, they need to get all those votes back and more. the question of anyone, man or woman, democrat or republican in 2016 is, can you win the american people? can you build a national movement, that will not only put you in office, that will give

you the mandate to do something once you're there. that's a huge hurdle, so is being a great president in the 21st century. that's hardball for now, thanks for being with us, all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight we are all in. >> are folks more interested in politics or solving the problem. >> the crisis at the board. the president and rick perry meet in texas as the political circus continues in washington. >> they can't stay. they cannot stay. >> republicans hammer on border security. >> come together and secure the border once and for all. >> what if the crisis exists because the borders are secure? then, who we spied on, now we know which americans were under surveillance by the nsa. >> i was a conservative reagan loving republican. >> ben greenwald is here and he's naming names. >> the hobby lobby flood gates.