illegally. a new warning from homeland security secretary jeh johnson about the crisis on the u.s. border. in the last few months, more than 50,000 undocumented and unaccompanied children have entered this country. i'll be talking to a texas congresswoman who spent time on the border about the white house plan to stem the tide. also, a new fight for voters' rights. right now a push to block north carolina's new voter i.d. law. critics say it will keep african-americans and even young voters from the polls. talked to one attorney who's leading the charge. and enda. the employment nondiscrimination act. it's been making the rounds in congress for decades now. still hasn't been passed. some of the backers say they now want to pull their support. we'll talk to enda's early sponsor, former congressman barney frank. and the flipped classroom. a new teaching method is turning the traditional classroom on its head. that is today's big idea. good afternoon to you all. i'm t.j. holmes in today for mr. craig melvin.

we're going to start with a developing story. the united nations security council just a short while ago called for an end to the violence between israel and palestinians in gaza. take a quick listen. >> the security council members called for de-escalation of the situation, and the november 25 cease-fire. >> that call comes as the crisis goes more intense. with new strikes hitting gaza today. the gaza health ministry reports that more than 120 people have been killed there over the past month. israeli authorities report hamas forces in gaza have fired more than 700 rockets and mortar rounds into parts of israel. so far, no reported israeli fatalities. also, just a few hours ago, israeli tanks could be seen

massing near the gaza border, raising new concerns about a possible ground assault. nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv with the very latest for us now. martin, please tell us, what are you seeing there at this hour? >> reporter: well, hi, t.j. that israeli buildup of tanks and soldiers and army reserves of more than 20,000 called up. that buildup on the edge of gaza is exactly what is forcing the international community to begin to intervene in this situation. the call you mentioned by the united nations security council is the most significant so far of the international call to stop the fighting, to de-escalate, but there's also a meeting plan for europe tomorrow with the united states, the european union, france, germany, where they're going to be drawing up a truce proposal. the arab league is supposed to meet in europe on monday to meet for the same reason on monday. there are proposals on the table. so a lot of international movement now to stop the

fighting, especially before the possibly israeli ground invasion. but the fighting in gaza has been brutal. it's up to about 140 palestinians killed already in the last five days. israeli's continuing its air assault, aiming at what they call the secret tunnels, the homes of militant leaders, the rocket launching sites. and israeli says they're going to continue until the rocket launches stop. so all that international activity building up, trying to stop a ground invasion, stop the fighting. nevertheless, the israeli prime minister netanyahu, who has said he's willing to talk, has also said israeli will not stop its assault until those rockets from gaza stop. t.j.? >> all right, martin fletcher for us in tel aviv. thank you so much for the update. and later this hour, we'll ask a former leading state department official if there is anything the u.s. can do at this point to lower the temperature between gaza and israel before the situation possibly gets even worse. we want to turn now back to this country, and new warnings from

the obama administration to those thinking of crossing into this country illegally. listen. >> at the end of the day, our border is not open to illegal migration. and our message to those who are coming here illegally, to those contemplating coming here illegally into south texas is we will send you back. >> jeh johnson toured immigration detention centers in new mexico yesterday. obama administration says about 52,000 unaccompanied children from central america have been apprehended at the border since october. many cross over the rio grande from mexico into texas, and that is where nbc's jennifer bjorkland right now. and you're in that spot. explain why that spot, why is that one of the key areas where so many people are crossing? >> reporter: t.j., i can actually show you from here, you can just look right over my shoulder. the water there, that's the rio

grande. on the other side, those buildings, that's mexico. that's a state park. all along the shore, it's become sort of a cottage industry for people trying to assist very lucrative cottage industry, trying to assist people to get across the border. where here, you see the river is very narrow. it's also the shortest route from central america, 1,200 miles, but it's still the quickest way to get here in a straight line. one other thing, reynosa is just that way, and that's a transit center. many of the bus lines and train lines that these folks come on to get north actually end up there on the other side of the border. so it's a very convenient spot. and as you can see, it's a really easy crossing, especially at night. >> jennifer, how are they being greeted there? many of the kids and many of the families, we've seen some of the pictures out of marietta, california, where a lot of them were bussed and a lot of people angry in those communities,

wouldn't even let those buses stick around. they had to be rerouted, sent somewhere else. so how are you seeing people there being greeted? >> reporter: a lot different from marietta, which is about a two and a half-hour drive north of the border. so along the border cities in california and here in texas, they're looking at it as a humanitarian crisis. they're not making a political statement by greeting these people with open arms. they've had a horrendous journey. there's small children. the volunteers are coming out. the catholic charities and the non-profit organizations are trying to make them feel welcome here in the united states for as long as they're here, which could quite frankly not be very long, t.j. >> jennifer bjorklund there for us in texas. thank you so much. the obama administration has asked for nearly $4 billion to deal with that influx of children coming from central america. congresswoman sheila jackson lee is a democrat from texas, ranking member of the border security subcommittee. congresswoman, always good to

talk to you. you have -- let's put up for our viewers here some of the pictures we have seen at least coming from your office. you have visited down there in texas and visited with some of these families. you tell me, what are you seeing down there? >> t.j., first of all for having me this afternoon. i'm wearing a red ribbon, i just want to acknowledge that i just came from a firefighter's funeral who fell on duty this past week, daniel brother. i say that because he was in service. and what i saw down there is not only children who are pleading for our help, because they are innocent, because they have been duped, if you will, by drug cartels, traffickers and smugglers who have befuddled their parents or guardians and indicated that there was open doors here. i saw a border patrol agent working at their very best along with i.c.e. officers, having diapers and formulas right in the jailhouse. i saw little faces pressed against the glass with tears in their eyes. and i saw a 3-year-old that was among the 54 toddlers that were

there at the time i was there, who had been there for 13 days. and our country is working as hard as it can be. but i also saw the generosity of local communities who are not complaining, who are not speaking political talk, national talk. they were really talking about how we can help these children, along with a number of non-profits, who rolled up their sleeves and a lot of volunteers. and i think that's really the story that we must put forward. one of the reasons why the president is trying to achieve this $3.7 million is to be able to follow the law, to enforce the law, but also have the humanitarian side. but this final point, i'm looking to add an amendment that would provide for the reimbursement of the expenses, the must-do expenses that many of our local jurisdictions have already expended. including those around the nation. >> congresswoman, one of your points is so key there.

the president wants to follow the law. he wants to be a humanitarian at the same time. it seems like sometimes those two things don't mesh. because these kids are here now, and they are here illegally, despite how they got here and what they were fleeing. the u.n. has chimed in on this saying the kids should be treated as refugees. a lot of the kids here will end up trying to seek asylum. so this is a key point that maybe is not getting enough attention. are young children who are fleeing possibly gang violence or extreme poverty, is that in your opinion enough to qualify them for asylum status or refugee status, which means they would be fleeing persecution in their home countries? is that enough, extreme violence or extreme poverty? >> first of all, t.j., thank you so very much for recognizing the united nations, which we are a member. the united nations has declared this, that these children have international protection. i think what is important to note is that the law that we have that has been so misused by

our friends on the other side of the aisle, the republicans, is a law passed under president bush, but more importantly, it is a law that puts the children in deportation. so what secretary johnson said, he's speaking the law. but what it does do is that it gives these children the opportunity to petition or to express that they are in fear of their life. they have a credible fear of death. and we have documented that children have been threatened to lose their life if they didn't go into cartels. and it gives them the right to say yes, i've been trafficked. yes, i've been raped. yes, i've been abused. and that puts them in a category seek asylum, as it does for the children that are mexican children. but unfortunately, it's different where the children can voluntarily deport, but they have the right, which has not been used, and they should be given that right to also indicate they're in fear of their life. so this is a current law and i am concerned about manipulating the current law.

>> i guess that's the concern, congresswoman. you're saying right there that they get to come here and plead their case. well, i guess -- how are we sending a message back to central america that we're going to send you back home if we are also saying at the same time you get to come here, you get to stay with a relative or a sponsor, you get to stay in housing or deportation housing or that we give you, and we're going to listen to you, and this is a process that could take years of trying to see through your case that we're allowing you to make legally. how is that sending any message to central america not to send your kids and that it's not worth it? >> i think you raise a very important question. first of all, i think we should thank all of the local non-profits and others who are keeping these children on a temporary basis. >> yeah. >> then, we should stand by what has been said, because it is true, by secretary johnson, that these children will return based upon them being in deportation

proceedings. but we as a country must follow our values and the law. and how do we do that? we add more immigration judges for them to be processed as quickly as possible, making their point, which i've submitted legislation on. and that's what that bill is about. we need to have more i.c.e. officers that will transport them to guardians. but also round them up if they have received deportation orders, but in a humane manner, in a manner that does not treat these children as a national security threat or criminals. there is no conflict in that. we have to be orderly. and there is an orderly process. and the faith community wants us to be orderly. the charities want us to be orderly and health and human services is required for us to be orderly, because they are the custodians of these children. and i think that that is the way america should show itself to the world. a bishop said, t.j., that the world is watching america. >> are we going to see that $3.7 billion go through?

is the president going to get that support? >> you know, i hope -- when i started out by saying i wanted to thank all the local communities who are not in any way having a discourse about republicans or democrats. they're just helping. i hope the congress will go back next week and say we just need to help, whether we want to make the law more flexible, whether we want to look at the law, i think we just need to help. in order to help, the president wants to help, we need to pass the $3.7 billion so that law enforcement can work and the humanitarian side can work. that's what america is all about. the world is watching us. >> congresswoman lee, as always, thank you. on that issue of the judges, it's very key and it's not being talked about enough. more immigration judges need to be in that courts and speed up the process itself. thank you so much. i know we'll be chatting again. appreciate you coming in this weekend. in our 3:00 hour, we'll speak with one of the folks behind the church-run immigrant center in mcallen, texas. we'll hear what she's been seeing. also ahead, scrapping enda, the employment nondiscrimination act spending decades in

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find your inner minion only at the despicable me minion mayhem ride at universal studios hollywood. you're hearing sirens there, and you are seeing the night sky in tel aviv. this was just moments ago. you know the back and forth has been taking place. really the back and forth -- israel has been launching strikes into gaza. israeli authorities saying more rockets and mortar rounds have been fired into israel as well. this comes as the united nations security council just a little while ago called for an end to the violence between israel and

the palestinians. listen. >> the security council members further called for respect for international humanitarian law, including the protection of syrians. >> gaza authorities say more than 120 people have been killed by the air strikes. authorities there in israel saying some 700 rockets and mortar rounds have been fired into israel from gaza. i want to bring in aaron david miller, he served in the state department under president clinton as deputy special middle east coordinator and continued through the first years of the george w. bush administration. also author of "the end of greatness." we talked about the security council and what they did just a few hours ago. what impact could that statement have on what's happening on the ground? >> none. flat-out none. we've seen this terrible horrific movie, t.j., at least

twice before. in '08 and '09. it took three weeks and the israelis unilaterally declared cease-fear in response to try to stop hamas's high trajectory rocket fire. that operation took one week, and the egyptians with american encouragement brokered a cease-fire. so at best, you're looking at an end state that really is not going to solve the problem. and the reality is these crises have ebb and flows, only when the parties are ready, truly ready and amenable to de-escalation and to standing down are you going to be able to stop this, and right now, i don't think they are. >> does anyone -- you said when the parties are ready, is there anyone who is in anybody's ear right now, trying to nudge them that way, and i guess in particular, netanyahu says we hear you, international community, but we're not going to be deterred, we're going to do what we need to do. >> the united states has a very close relationship with israel,

and i'm sure that washington, the president has talked repeatedly, secretary kerry, to benjamin netanyahu. but that's only one hand. i mean, you need two hands to clap. and the other reality is you have to have a party who's prepared to intervene directly with hamas. and right now, the egyptians who have proven in the past, traditional brokers, frankly they want to see hamas squeezed. this is not mohamed morsi, president of egypt anymore. it's a former commander of the egyptian military, and frankly, he wants to see hamas hurt. so again, you don't have a mediator, and the timing right now is simply not amenable to a quicker rapid standdown. >> you say we don't have a mediator. who's talking? is anybody talking? >> a lot of people are talking to the israelis, and maybe the turks, maybe even the egyptians

are talking to hamas. but you need more than that. you need a sense on the part of both sides that they have accomplished what it is they set out to do. israel wants to fundamentally erode and retard hamas's ability to do this again. i don't think the israelis feel that they have succeeded. hamas, weak already, wants to get political dividends out of this, to demonstrate not only that they can resist the israelis and fire missiles at tel aviv, but they can justify the destruction that the israelis are not wreaking upon many innocent gazans. let's remember. of the 120 fatalities, roughly 60 of those are probably hamas fighters and/or operatives. you have a deadly game, and i call it a game, only because there is not going to be an end. it's a maneuver. and within a year or two, maybe three if we're lucky, we're

going to see this again assuming we can get it stopped quickly. >> you mentioned just how to densely populated gaza is. it literally is -- people are in urban areas, so what is it going to look like if there's some kind of ground incursion by israel? >> it's going to result in more civilian casualties. in '08 and '09, the israelis went in. at the end of that operation, there were 1,300 palestinian dead. roughly 400 to 500 hamas fighters. but a substantial number of civilians. when you operate in densely populated urban areas, i don't care how good your intel is, i don't care how precise your weapons, i don't care if you give people warning. the reality is, innocents are going to die. >> all right. aaron david miller from the woodrow institute, woodrow wilson center, rather. thank you so much. >> thank you, t.j. want to bring you an update on a story we brought you a

couple weeks ago. told you about a new tennessee law that now we are seeing put into action. a 26-year-old woman has become the first mother to be arrested for using drugs while pregnant. mallory loyala charged with simple assault could face a year behind bars. her daughter was born july 6th, tested positive for meth. this month, tennessee became the first and still is the only state to criminalize drug use by pregnant women. you're watching msnbc. when the pressure's on... only secret offers clinical strength invisible solid and clear gel with 100% odor protection. secret clinical strength.

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since king james posted this announcement on his twitter and facebook pages as "sports illustrated" also broke his news. 822,000 people so far have liked the photo you're seeing right there. his return also inspired hundreds of memes. showing what a difference four years can make for cleveland fans. there were 143 tweets per minute with the hash tag #lebronjames. and this one. this fellow was fired and rehired after his story went viral. he's mike boyer, he lives in washington state where it's legal to buy recreational marijuana. he wanted to be the first person to exercise his right in spokane. he ended up on television, of course. then he said his boss ordered him to take a drug test. well, he failed that test, of course, and then he was fired. boyer's story went viral after he posted his resume on craigslist. well, he doesn't need to keep

that post up anymore, actually. he's back on the job. his employer said this was all a misunderstanding about scheduling. and a warning, folks. this is one more warning to you. please be careful what you're putting on your twitter and facebook ain and instagram. you see that young lady? l'oreal offered this blonde young lady a modelling contract after photos of her cheering on belgium were seen at the world cup. she was just at a game cheering. she ended up with a modelling contract. she was even featured in this video that you're seeing on youtube that has been viewed some three million times. l'oreal has now cancelled the contract. they cut ties with the young lady after backlash over facebook photos that she posted that showed her doing what? posing next to a dead animal while holding a rifle on a hunting trip. cost her a job. her facebook page is now down. but please, go out there and you'll be able to find those photos of her with a dead animal

and a rifle on the internet somewhere, i'm sure. well, still ahead, a new method of teaching, where kids do homework in the classroom, and then they go home to hear the teacher teach. yes, we're flipping the traditional classroom in today's "big idea." also, civil rights groups are taking the state of north carolina to court to block the state's new voter law. they say it will keep african-americans and even young voters errs from the polls. talking to one of the key lawyers in that case, next. ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" that would be my daughter --

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forward path to full recovery. now we'll turn to some other headlines. vladimir putin is on a tour of latin america. first stop, cuba. he met with current president raul castro and former fidel castro. the trip is not just ceremonial, however. putin agreed to forgive most of cuba's $35 billion soviet era debt that is still owed to moscow. comedian tracy morgan suing wal-mart over that deadly vehicle crash that put him in serious condition. one person was killed in that crash. preliminary ntsb report says the driver of the wal-mart truck was speeding at the time and had been driving more than nine consecutive hours. in the statement, though, the company wal-mart says, "we know it will take some time to resolve all the remaining issues as a result of the accident, but we're committed to doing the right thing for all involved." also, the stage is set for tomorrow's world cup finale in

brazil. germany taking on argentina tomorrow afternoon. it's been noted on social media out there for the first time ever the two teams in the final of the world cup each have a living pope in their corner. pope francis from argentina, and the emeritus pope benedict is from germany. how do pope's trash talk, i wonder? there's no word of a wager between the two at this point. well, in a courtroom in north carolina this week, history was at stake. in 2008, you remember then candidate barack obama did something that no other democrat presidential candidate had done in 32 years. of course, we know a lot of history was made by barack obama, but there's one thing he did do that not only bill clinton was able to do. he turned north carolina blue. in 2008, by a margin of less than 1%. how exactly did he do that? well, as "usa today" pointed out back then, obama leaned on first-time voters and energized african-americans to offset a tradition of republican success.

now, with that in mind, another potential game-changer is unfolding right now in the tar heel state. when they could indeed have lasting implications on the future elections there, and perhaps nationwide. at stake, north carolina's strict new voter law, which its opponents say is designed to prevent an election result like 2008 from ever happening again. among the new and controversial changes, a strict voter i.d. requirement. early voting, which had attracted many african-american voters in the past has now been dramatically, dramatically reduced, and same day voter registration is no longer allowed. but before all these provisions are in place there, there's now a serious multi-pronged effort from the justice department, naacp, the aclu and even a group of college students to get them to block the law, tear down the barriers in place for november. with me now, the attorney on the case from the advancement project. good to have you here.

so this keeps happening. so where are we in particular in north carolina? where are we in the legal process? and what are your hope thousands that you're going to be able to get some kind of injunction in place and this will not be able to fully be implemented? >> that's certainly a great question, t.j. last week we were in court for preliminary injunction. that means we went to court to ask the court to stop this law from being in effect in the november 2014 election. we want the law that was in place in 2010 and 2012. we put on an excellent case. we had excellent witnesses that came forward. at this point, we've rested, at least this part of our case. it's just the preliminary period. and we're waiting on a decision from the judge. >> okay. now, the argument by many who put this in place, many republicans making the argument say that the law that's put in place, this is the only way to combat rampant voter fraud. we hear that a lot, do we not?

there have been plenty of government studies that say voter fraud is just a fantasy. what are the arguments out there that are going to convince the court? i guess what is it you need to convince the court of, you believe? >> we certainly hope to convince the court that this law will have a disproportionate impact on african-americans. in 2008 and 2012, 7.8 million people voted. one case of voter impersonation. and in fact, the elections director even said that she really had no knowledge of any type of voter impersonation. and so we believe that this law was really put in effect to really discourage african-americans from being able to participate in the elections. >> how important is a week? and i say that because 70% of african-american voters who cast ballots in 2008-2012 cast them early. this law in particular -- we talk about i.d. so much, but another part of this law essentially is cutting that early voting from 17 days to down to ten days. so that's a full week we're talking about here. how big of a deal is that?

>> well, it's a huge deal. especially when you look at the social economic status of african-americans in that state. and the history of discrimination. african-americans still -- more than 1/3 are still living in poverty in north carolina. they do not have the type of transportation, they do not have the type of access. they have the type of jobs that are not -- that are inflexible when it comes to being able to take that time off to vote. so the longer time that they have to be able to manage and be able to get to the polls will guarantee that those individuals will have an opportunity to participate equally. >> something here, you have college students who have joined in as plaintiffs on this. if we saw young people, the way young people came out for really barack obama in 2008, not as much in 2012. got that young -- he energized young folks. what's the potential there? >> the duke interveners actually have brought in the students, and basically they brought in

those students because there were amendments placed on the table to allow the type of i.d. that students use. the student college i.d. if students were to become engaged in this and really come out, and they are starting to become engaged, i think it's going to be a totally different type of ball game as we move forward in terms of making sure that young people, elderly people, people of color, that everyone has an opportunity to participate because our democracy has to be free, fair, and accessible. >> last thing, would you like to see a national standard or is it still important for individual states to make laws as they see fit based on, you know, individual communities and the needs they see feet? >> ultimately a right to vote in our u.s. constitution, it would be important. i think it would make a difference. and we wouldn't have so many different election rules throughout the country. every jurisdiction does something different and we'd have something more uniform and less people would be disenfranchised, i think. >> all right, donita judge, attorney for the advancement

project. you've been on this for years and years, i know. and this is going to trial, not until next summer, is that correct? so we'll be talking to you plenty, i'm sure. >> i look forward to it. thank you. coming up, folks, doing homework at school, and then the school work at home. that's today's big idea. you've got to hear this one. ant legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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i've seen an increase in the number of students getting as and bs and a decrease in ds and fs. >> that success described by that teacher is probably due to a new teaching method, it's called flipping the classroom. and it's today's "big idea." the traditional way of teaching where a teacher stands in front of the class, teaches, lectures, then assigns homework based on that teaching and lecture. well, that model we all grew up on is being tossed out. instead, the lecture is done by video where the student can watch at their own pace at home. actual work is done in class the next class day where the instructor acts as a coach

helping students work through assignments and figure out problems. jonathan bergman is the teacher who invented this flipped learning. why? what made you say hey, why don't we try it this way? >> well, that's an interesting question, t.j. thanks for having me on the show. it started with a conversation, our assistant superintendent came down, we were teaching in a small rural school in colorado, and aaron sams and i were having this conversation. the assistant superintendent, she said, my daughter's in college, she loves the idea of her teacher recording her lessons because -- and this is the word that changed her life. because i don't have to go to class anymore. and that's when we said, well, what if -- what's the value of class time if you can just watch it on a video? that's when we said, what if -- and then we had this crazy idea. what if we stop doing direct instruction to our students all at the same time, and that's basically how we came up with the idea. >> okay, but these kids are still getting class time because they are doing essentially their homework and getting direction

and instruction there. and people wonder, how is this working out? well, from some of the results, at least you highlight on your website from clintondale high school, this is near detroit. first completely flipped school shows that the failure rates dropped pretty dramatically at this one school. so i assume a lot of people will attribute that to the method, so why does this method work better in your opinion? >> i think it works primarily because i believe we're sending our students home to do the hard stuff. if you think about -- there's a theorist in education called benjamin bloom. he talks about levels of cognition or thinking, starting with knowledge and understanding they're getting harder. and then application, analysis, synthesis and creation. what i did for 19 years as a teacher is i spent my time teaching kids the lower level. the knowledge and the understanding. i sent them home to apply and analyze and evaluate. but if you flip that on its head and send them home to do the easy stuff, the knowledge and the understanding, they come to

class, they get help on the hard stuff. i was just helping my daughter about three or four weeks ago, my daughter attends high school in the chicago area. she came home to me and said dad, can you help me on my chemistry? i was a chemistry and a.p. chemistry teacher. i said, of course i can, because that's what i used to teach. but none of her friends had me as a dad. so she got the help at home, but her friends don't have that option. >> what are the challenges still? and i assume you get some pushback of some critics who still have some value, and the kid getting that direction, that instruction, and not just guidance and help with homework, if you will. so what do you see as still some kinks that need to be worked out in the system? >> well, the two big questions that we're always asked is what if students don't have access to technology? what if a kid lives in a high poverty area and doesn't have access to technology. but we have schools -- in fact, the one you cited clintondale high school, they've solved that problem. we had that problem at our rural school in colorado where we had

25% of the kids without the internet. so what we did is we ultimately put some videos on to dvds. the kids took a dvd and had it home. they had a tv player. that level of technology. we know schools that are doing this with high poverty rates. one measure or metric in schools. i know a teacher who teaches in a school with 98 produce freedom reduced lunch and she's flipping her classes. it can be solved. >> parents, his name is jonathan bergman. he is the man who single handedly is going to help you keep from having to help your kids with homework because they're going to do it at school. he has today's "big idea." thanks so much for being with us. if you have a big idea, you can let us know about it on twitter using the hash ta tag #whatsthebigidea. coming up, backers of enda, the employment nondiscrimination act, which has yet to pass congress, feeling the need to withdraw their support. we'll tell you why.

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it is a bill decades in the making, and now it's losing support from the very people it's designed to protect. the employment nondiscrimination act would prohibit workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. but this week, at least six national gay rights organizations pulled their support. they're concerned the bill provides too many loopholes for employers who oppose homosexuality based on religious grounds. that's after this month's supreme court ruling on hobby lobby. they're granted exemptions from insurance coverage, as many in the lgbt community worried if enda would ever make it through congress. former massachusetts congressman barney frank, a longtime sponsor of that bill. we appreciate you being here. tell me first, do you still support enda in its current

form? >> well, i'll have to give you two answers. if i thought the votes were there in the congress, where i no longer serve, to increase its scope, i would be for that. on the other hand, i accept the judgment of the very dedicated people, gay and straight, who are pushing for this now, that this is the best we could do in the current political situation. so then the question is, as it now stands, an improvement? the answer is clearly yes. one of the things i haven't seen is what they were doing. first of all, whatever congress would be saying about religious exemption, it would unfortunately be subject to that supreme court decision with regard to the religious exemption. so that's problematic. secondly, there are a number of states now that have anti-discrimination laws protecting people like me. many of them have narrower religious exemptions. to the extent that those can be

held, passing enda won't remove them. so the question is this. in a majority of the states, there was no protection whatsoever for any gay or lesbian or bisexual transgender employee from discrimination in employment. if a bell is passed that substantially improves that situation by extending protection to a lot of them, is that better than nothing? my idea would be to follow what the civil rights movement did, which was to get the best you could at any given time and continue your fight for better. >> as you say there, is there a way to rewrite or tweak in the as is, to keep it -- >> of course there is, if you have the votes. >> you say you don't have the vote. but is there a way to change it so that many of these groups are opposing and pull their support would come back to? >> of course it would. i can write a bill tomorrow that would be wonderful. the question is, what do you have the votes to get through? i think this is what some of these people don't understand.

yes, you can sit in a room, talk to each other, and people with whom you're in great agreement and write the perfect bill. but the question is, what can you get through the congress? and the answer is, as i said, we had a religious exemption which represented the best we can do to get the votes. so if you get a bill that would give substantial protection to millions of people who don't now have it, but it won't protect everybody who's now unprotected, but it won't hurt anybody, should you pass it or not? so if the question is could you write a better bill, sure. but that's an academic exercise. can you pass a better bill, and i haven't seen any strategy that says that you can. i think to be honest, there there were some people who feel it's their job to be in the cutting edge and not to accept what progress we might have, but to reach for more. that's fine if you can help develop the votes for it. but i wish people like that would do less kind of sitting around in their own heads than writing the perfect bill and do

more serious lobbying to maximize the votes. >> do you consider it -- listen to it there. i think we get the message you're saying there about some of these groups. do you think it's some kind of a setback, to have many of these national organizations now come out and say we're pulling our support of enda, which again, folks like yourself and many others have been fighting decades to try to get passed? >> no. because i do not think it will affect the members of congress. i do not think first of all that it represents the views of the great majority of gay and lesbian people. if i'm a lesbian or a gay man or a transgender individual living in a state that has no protection for me right now, and a bill is going to pass that would give me job protection, i'm going to be for it even if it's less than perfect in the minds of many. so no, i do not think that this will detract from the votes that you're going to get. i haven't seen any sign that the

members of congress, including the gay and lesbian members of congress, are withdrawing their support. because i think they're much better informed about the realities of what you do. the notion that you don't do anything until you can do perfection is a great recipe for doing nothing. the history of progress in almost every issue, certainly in civil rights, is you take some of what you want, you build on that, you show that the fears about that are wrong, and you can go beyond that. and that's what the civil rights movement did throughout the '60s, and that's what i think we should do. >> all right. former congressman barney frank here with us on a saturday. we appreciate you coming in. enjoy the rest of your weekend, sir. getting close to the top of the hour. take a look at something. she's been called a craftivist. a woman in upstate new york taking her protest directly to hobby lobby scores. she's going around the locations of the craft chain, using supplies there to make a statement. she's grabbing up big wooden

ladders and spelling out pro choice. >> i've been tagged a lot as a feminist. i'm more of an equal rights activist because i think everyone deserves equal rights. still ahead, courtroom drama. this man accused in a shooting rampage that killed almost an entire family. what could have caused him to collapse in court? we'll have the update. at humana, we believe if healthcare changes, if it becomes simpler... if frustration and paperwork decrease... if grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home... the gap begins to close. so let's simplify things. let's close the gap between people and care. ♪

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their kids. we'll hear more from her and show you the dramatic scene that unfolded during the suspect's first court appearance. also, super packs. critics say they make it too easy for the wealthy and big business to buy elections. now there's a super pack to end super packs. and todd akin is back. the gop distanced itself from the congressman and senate candidate two years ago after his controversial comments. now he's firing back with a new book. will this be the party's next headache? >> we got our boy back. thank you, lebron. you have done a wonderful thing for cleveland. all is forgiven. >> yeah, all is forgiven now. you were burning his jersey four years ago. king james retaking the throne, the one that's situated back this his hometown of cleveland. i'll talk to a prominent sports columnist who predicted that lebron james would return to cleveland a year ago. thank you so much for being with us on msnbc. i'm t.j. holmes in today for

craig melvin. we do need to start with a developing story. take a look at this. >> this was just moments ago. warning flashes seen in the skies above tel aviv. death toll continues to climb in the conflict between israel and hamas and gaza. the u.n. called for an immediate cease fire. the gaza health ministry reports that more than 120 people there have been killed by israeli attacks over the past month. israeli authorities meanwhile report hamas forces in gaza have fired nearly 700 rockets and mortar rounds into parts of israel. so far, no deaths reported in israel. nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv with the very latest for us. we were seeing those pictures and hearing those sounds just a little bit ago. those sirens going off. what is it like this moment there in tel aviv? >> reporter: well, that's right, t.j. you can see the sky behind me,

the skyline behind me. it's all quiet, but about 45 minutes ago, it was lit up by all kinds of stuff. hamas and gaza had warned tel aviv -- they warned tel aviv saying we will hit you at 9:00 this evening local time. at 9:08, the rockets started flying from gaza. the sirens began in tel aviv. when the rocket is fired from gaza to tel aviv, the people here have 90 seconds to find shelter, to some kind of bomb shelter. mostly they make it. there's been no casualties, no damage. all of those seven rockets that were fired at tel aviv either exploded harmlessly at sea, or they were intercepted in the night sky by the iron dome, which knocks them out of the sky. so the sirens are pretty scary, as a matter of fact. because you never know what's going to happen. even though iron dome has been remarkably successful, all those missiles that explode over tel

aviv, once they explode, all that metal debris then falls down to the ground. so there's great danger also from the debris. but of course, much less than from an explosion. so the attacks from gaza, more than 55 just today, are what is causing israel to retaliate with their attacks against gaza, causing much greater loss of life there. in gaza, of course, no bomb shelters, no defensive shield like iron dome. every rocket is for real. and it hits and lands and it kills, about 140 palestinians killed in the last five days. all of this mayhem is now finally forcing the world to react. the united nations security council this evening called for a halt to the violence. there's diplomatic activity in europe. the european union, britain, france, united states tomorrow going to meet about a truce proposal. the arab league is set to meet on monday. a lot of diplomatic activity

aimed at stopping the two sides from fighting. and the urgency of not only these rockets that we've been seeing, but also the massing of the israeli army on the borders with gaza. everybody wants to avoid an israeli ground invasion of gaza and the carnage it would bring, t.j. >> nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv. thank you so much. want to turn back to a big story making news here in this country. the obama administration seeking emergency funds from congress to deal with that influx of undocumented immigrants. many of them children, from central america. homeland security secretary jeh johnson says as many as 90,000 unaccompanied children could stream across the border by september. but what happens once they get there? let's bring in sister norma piementel. thank you so much for being here. how difficult was it? were you in any way prepared for, i guess, just the numbers

that came and would need help once they crossed the border? >> you know, t.j., we are always prepared. i'm always ready to respond to whatever the need is. and so, yes, this was so unexpected. from one day to the other, it became quite a task and quite a job to respond in the magnitude that we have to be responding since day one. >> and sister, when you see them for the first time, what is the immediate need? it could be an emotional need. do they need medical help? what is it? >> immediately, the need is overwhelming, as far as the conditions of the folks that are coming in. they need to be careful. their state is one that they need food, they need rest. so emotionally, they're also very, very vulnerable and very in great need of help and care. >> and have you come into your care as well a lot of unaccompanied children?

>> what we have is what moms and children that are released by immigration to travel, so we find them at the bus station, invite them to come to our site so that we can help them and get rest and get fixed up and receive the care they need. >> where do they go -- once they come into your care, though, where do they end up, or do they end up staying with you for a while? trying to find other relatives or sponsors they can stay with? >> no, t.j., what we do is simply allow them to rest for a little while. eat and get medical attention that they're mainly needing. they just continue the journey. we send them back to the bus station. they're with us for less than just a couple hours. possibly maybe ten hours when they have to wait for a little longer for the bus to leave. they don't stay here. >> where are they going? >> everywhere in the united states, from new york, california, florida, chicago. everywhere that you can think of. they have relative where is

they're going to. >> ma'am, what do you hear from them that their understanding is, that once they get here, what they'll be able to do? do you find that there is confusion where many of them believe once they get here, that they'll get some kind of a pass or permit to stay? or are they just taking their chances? what are you hearing from them? >> you know, they're taking their chances. i think the point that we find them, they're in such distress that they are really very vulnerable and scared, frightened. and so they're just grateful that somebody was able to extend, open their arms and help them in the way that we are helping them. so many people from the community are offering to help them, to give them a hand, to show them some love. so at that point, they're not saying that they're expecting anything other than they're grateful they can travel and go with some family member. >> ma'am, last thing to you here. i know you've seen some of the coverage probably. but a political back and forth that's going on. there's been some -- you know,

on both sides. some people saying we need to send them right back, and others are saying we need to show more compassion. we saw some of the pictures from california where a lot of people are upset and wanted the buss to turn back around, didn't want to receive the immigrants there. but what are you seeing in your community in terms of their willingness to help, and, you know, help out with even resources to allow you all to do your work? >> you know, you're right. the community's response has been so wonderful and positive. what we've seen is just support, and how can i help. you know, we've had hundreds of thousands of volunteers, donations pouring in, coming in, asking how can i help. the response has been wonderful. and all we have to do is see the faces of these children, of these moms and the conditions they are, the faces with their tears. and you cannot but just help -- i think everyone has it in their heart to help. i think those that are against it have not seen these families and children in the conditions they are in. i think if they saw those faces, those eyes with the tears, they would help as well.

>> sister norma pimentel from catholic charities. i hope it's all right if we call on you and check in with you again. but you have -- there's a human side to this story that you are able to help us tell and we appreciate it. thank you so much, ma'am. >> thank you, t.j., yes. we're ten minutes past the hour now. coming up, money talks. you'll be surprised to hear what it says. how some are using big money to stop big money in politics. that's next. also, we'll hear from the only survivor of a shooting rampage that left a mom, dad, and four of their kids dead. if you wear a denture, touch it with your tongue.

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welcome back. florida voting. back in the news. a judge has tossed two of the state's congressional districts, saying they were drawn to favor

republicans. judge terry lewis says districts five and ten "made a mockery of the voting process." the state will now have to redraw them, but it's unlikely new districts can be in place before the november election. former senator bill bradley once said taking money out of politics is like taking jumping out of basketball. some politicians say you need a hefty bank account, even to lose a race these days. all that was evident this week with a report showing some 114 super pacs have already poured nearly $80 million into races this year and it's still pry mar season. the super pacs can spend an unlimited amount in unlimited campaigns. it comes from private individuals, corporations and unions. critics say they make it easier for the wealthy and big business to buy elections. and one man has now formed what he has called the super pac to end all super pacs.

let me introduce that man, and also leteia gold, and professor, you are going to end super pacs by using the very system that you're criticizing. how does that make sense? >> well, it makes sense, because you've got use whatever tools are available to bring about the system that you think is more just. so this is the set of tools that we've been given to use. and what we've done over the last six weeks, is we've real estate raised about $6 million now from people just pledging to contribute to this super pac, which in 2014 will run in five races, to set a precedent so that we can show the insiders in washington people care about this issue, so we can come back in 2016 and win a congress committed to fundamental reform. >> you're going to win a congress -- you're starting with five races. is your point to use this super pac to fund enough congressional campaigns and eventually get a congress in place that can

change the system? >> yeah, that's right. i mean, the conventional wisdom inside of washington is that people don't care about this issue. so we want to test that. we believe this is like the four-minute mile and we want to be roger banister here, because what we want to demonstrate is we can win hard races on the basis of this issue an shock both the democrat and republican party so that when we come back in 2016, we have a basis to go to investors, people who want to support this idea, and say see if we have the money that we think we need, we can win the congress committed to reform. we think this is the opportunity for us to take advantage of it. >> has he lost his mind? does he have a chance here, when you talk about politics and money, does he have a chance? >> well, let's just put this in context. the environment in which they're

trying to change the system, it's a remarkable political landscape we're in. this is now third election cycle since the supreme court citizens united decision, which set all this in motion. as of friday, there were 805 super pacs registered with the federal election commission. so i think it will be hard to find any competitive congressional election this fall that has not been touched in some way by outside spending. it's clearly an uphill battle, not just because of all the money involved, but because these are some pretty major legal precedents they're trying to change. what i think is interesting about the approach that they're taking is they are really working to amplify the voices of small donors, and that's a tack that i think a lot of folks who advocate for this kind of reform may be more successful than actually trying to undo citizens united or undo the creation of super pacs. >> you said it's hard, all these super pacs out there, it's hard to find a race that's not

touched by them. we've seen an influence, the influence is undeniable. >> i think we're seeing a lot of races in which super pacs have more influence than the campaign committee of the candidate him or herself. this is where the gravity in our political landscape is shifting to, to these outside forces. and it's important to remember that -- i mean, this is something that has been set in motion by the supreme court and will be very hard to undo. so senate democrats, for example, are pushing for a constitutional amendment to change this. that's clearly an uphill battle. so what i think they're trying to do is even the playing field by actually trying to make small donors feel more empowered in this system. >> professor, last thing to you here. i assume you're hearing from a lot of folks opposed to what you're doing, maybe a lot of them in washington, d.c., quite frankly. but what kind of pushback have you already gotten and how much more do you expect to get? has it already gotten a little intense? this is politics you're messing

with here. >> i'm looking forward to pushback. that means we're having an effect. i think she is focused precisely on the difference in our strategy. we're not taking on the supreme court. we're not trying to get a constitutional amendment passed. we're trying to get a statute passed, that would fundamentally change the way we fund elections right now. you said is it crazy? yeah, it sounds crazy. just as crazy as it sounded to raise a million dollars online in 30 days, which we did in 13 days. and then to raise $5 million in a month, which nobody thought we could do, but i think what we've demonstrated is that there's an incredible passion out there for people who see some kind of change here, and what we want to do is to leverage that passion, because as your numbers demonstrate, america is going to be so tired of this outside spending, and they'll be grasping for a way to see how we can end it, and we think this is a path forward that could be effective. >> all right, the professor who is embracing crazy right about now. so congratulations on what you've done so far.

it's very interesting to see you use the system to fight the system. but we'll see how this goes. enjoy the rest of your weekend. after a string of recent cases involving kids being left in hot cars alone, a texas police officer set out to make a powerful point. temperatures hovering around 94 degree s here and the corporal jesse peterson spent 30 minutes in his patrol car with the engine off and his dash cam on. his goal to show firsthand how quickly the temperatures can reach dangerous levels. here's how he felt at the 30-minute mark. >> my body's telling me to get out. i've been having to hold off from leaving the car. >> after his demonstration, peterson said at 15 minutes, the heat actually really started to affect him. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing.

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we come up on the bottom of the hour now. a texas community is embracing the lone survivor of a deadly attack on a spring, texas, family. earlier this week, 15-year-old cassidy stay was one of seven family members who was shot inside their home. both of her parents, all of her siblings died in that attack. cassidy reportedly deflected a bullet with her hand and saved her own life. she was released from the hospital yesterday and says she's on the path to a full recovery. today's celebration was about her and her family, and in her brief remarks to those in the crowd, she thanked them for their support. >> i know that my mom, dad,

brian, emily, becca, and zack are in a much better place and that i'll be able to see them again one day. thank you all for coming and showing your support for me and my family. stay stronged. >> meanwhile, the suspect in the attack, ron haskell, had his first court hearing yesterday. nbc's miguel almaguer has a look at what happened. >> reporter: facing a judge for the first time, ronald lee haskell's knees buckled as he heard the evidence against him. charged with capital murder, he collapsed in court. >> maybe reality is finally setting in. this is not television. this is not fiction. he is facing his consequence. >> reporter: police say haskell was looking for his ex-wife when he broke into his sister-in-law's home, shooting five innocent children and their parents, steven and katie stay, execution style in the same room. 15-year-old cassidy, the lone

survivor, called 911. >> cassidy, she's the hero. she put her hands over her head and she was shot at the side of her head. >> reporter: after a slow-speed pursuit, haskell surrendered. police believe he was en route to kill his ex-wife's parents. >> the focus of my defense with regard to mr. haskell is going to be on his mental condition. >> reporter: haskell has a history of domestic violence. in 2008, a guilty plea for assaulting his then wife. just last week, haskell's mother filed a restraining order after she says he choked her until she passed out. days later, haskell showed up in texas. >> the truth is, with human beings sometimes you have no idea what they're going to do or when they're going to do it. just outside of houston, there are no answers. only sorrow and pain. >> that's nbc's miguel almaguer. thank you so much. the death penalty hasn't been ruled out for haskell if he's

convicted. the harris county district attorney says he will decide soon what punishment he will pursue. let's turn back to politics now and todd akin. he's back. remember back in 2012, the missouri republican looked like a shoo-in for the senate. then he made these comments on rape, pregnancy, and abortion in a local interview. >> what about in the case of rape? should it be legal or not? >> well, you know, people always want to try and make that as one of those thing, well, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question? it seems to me, first of all, from what i understand from doctors, that's really rare. if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. >> despite an apology, it looked like a clear victory for akin, turned into a disaster. claire mccaskill held on to that seat. now he's written a book, called

"firing back: taking on the party bosses and media elite to protect our faith and freedom." it comes out next tuesday, but the publisher made a copy available to msnbc. in the book, he backtracks from his apology and he says, "by asking the public at large for forgiveness, i was validating the willful misinterpretation of what i said." so how do republicans feel about todd akin's reemergence in this election year? this politico headline might sum it up. kate dawson, the former chair of the south carolina republican party, and the 2009 candidate of the chairmanship of the republican national committee. i don't know if you could see it. you may have seen that headline. it essentially said, gop to todd akin, shut up. is that your take as well? >> t.j., you did a little time in missouri early in the 2000s as a superstar on tv. i understand that you can be conservative in missouri, but you also can be pro life, you

just can't be pro rape. that's what happened to todd akin. apologizing or taking it back doesn't matter, that's how it was framed. he had a long, illustrious career in politics, and he ruined it all in one second. and writing a book's not going to help. certainly the democratic party is going to try to take advantage of this. they've got so much bad news coming from the president day after day. but us republicans have moved past todd akin at warp speed and looking forward to a very successful 2014. >> do you think everybody else is going to move past him, or will he still be affiliated, if you will? people will think of republicans, they'll think of todd akin and they won't separate the two necessarily. >> look. i think that certainly, the loyal opposition on the other side will try to bring him back into focus. but that's not going to lap in the republican party. we've moved past that. he's not a bad guy. he just said a really bad thing. and he owns it, and it's his, and he's written a book. but right now, most of us who do this are focused on the future,

2014, taking back the senate and correcting some of the mistakes this current president's been making. >> you said you'll move past him. is there a fear necessarily that he might be up to something else? is he making a move? is he plotting trying to re-emerge some way in politics, state politics, national politics in some way, or do you think this is just a book, he wanted to get something off his mind? >> t.j., you know, he's a competitor. he never lost a race that i can tell. you've lived there and understand the state. he has his right to do it. he'll probably sell 12 or 15 books and have a good time. at the end of the day, he's not running for office. he's not a bad guy. don't get me wrong. but certainly, he lost a seat that we should have won, and wagner's now sitting in the seat that he held, and claire mccaskill's going to have her coming straight down the highway at her and that will be the next u.s. senate race. >> governor huckabee actually wrote the four words saying one prominent republican after

another sharpen their knives, repeatedly stabbed him in the back. they are still saying conservatives can't get elected. what kind of a divide is going on? governor huckabee is still a prominent republican out there, even if he's not going for office. is there still some kind of a divide to have that prominent of a republican who's saying we did this guy wrong? >> well, governor huckabee is a friend of mine and certainly he has a voice in the republican party, but you have to look towards electoral politics. i watched what happened. when you've been in office that long, you have to understand that what you say matters. and that was an egregious statement that was made. and he's trying to backtrack on it now, t.j., but it's too lasmt we lost that election. lost a precious united states seat. we had right in our hands. whether you blame it on the establishment or the conservatives, at the end of the day, that cost us a u.s. state

senate seat. >> caden dawson, i appreciate you speaking so favorably of my time in missouri as a young anchor out of college. as a superstar. i don't think that's how they remember me, but thank you for that. always good to see you, my man. up next, why is governor rick perry taking on rand paul today? we'll tell you after the break. ♪ in the nation, the safest feature in your car is you. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. nationwide is on your side.

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rolling. "underwater dreams" airs next sunday, 1:00 eastern time, right here on msnbc. the u.s. southern border continues to be ground zero for the crisis facing tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants coming into the country from central america. today, the white house warning congress not to stand in the way of fixing the problem. >> the republican plan right now is not to do some of this work with me. instead, it's to sue me. that's actually what they're spending their time on. it's a political stunt that's going to waste months of america's time, and by the way, they're going to pay for it using your hard-earned tax dollars. >> homeland security secretary jeh johnson toured an immigration detention center in new mexico yesterday. he says the border is not open to illegal immigration and says the u.s. will send anyone caught illegally crossing it back home. some 52,000 children have been caught at the border since october. what to do about them is creating a big challenge for the president as well as state and local lawmakers, so let me bring

in our brain trust. john ralston, and former texas senator kay bailey hutchison. it's a back and forth. is this a humanitarian crisis or immigration crisis. who's winning this public debate to influence the american people about what this is really about? >> well, i don't think it's clear who's won yet, t.j., but it's actually both, of course. it's an obvious humanitarian cry sisms everyone's seen the pictures. everyone knows what's going on. these are children many times fleeing awful situations. but it's also an immigration crisis and you can't take it out of the backdrop of the debate over immigration reform. you know, the president has to bear some responsibility for this. he has essentially made it more attractive for children by his executive action on the dreamers and his threatened action. on the other hand, the republicans are holding this up in congress. they're holding up legislation that might have ameal raeal yor

ameliorated this situation. we're getting nowhere, which again, is the status quo, right? >> let's listen to senator john mccain. viviana, i'm going to have you comment. >> they can't stay. they cannot stay. if they believe they're victims of persecution, go to our consulate, go to our embassy. but we cannot, we cannot have this unlimited flow of individuals. >> we hear a lot of folks say that. they cannot stay. but once a lot of these children get here, on the ground, it's a very different story. >> it is. i think that's really important to keep in mind is there is a reason, a very good reason why this 2008 anti-trafficking law was signed by president bush. it has to do with the fact of the extreme poverty and the violence that these children are

fleeing. to just pack them up and fly them back to these capitals, i can just imagine in six months what are we going to be reporting on, these terrible human and sex trafficking rings that are waiting to scoop up these children and sell them into the sex trade. what's important is to keep in mind that they are children, and this has been an effort that's been led certainly by the u.s. conference of catholic bishops by evangelical communities, which is to treat these children as that. and as victims and refugees that are fleeing violence. >> senator hutchison, your state, texas, has been ground zero for this. where do you -- how do you balance -- and again, i've been calling the president -- he's been trying to be a law-enforcing humanitarian and that's pretty difficult to do. where do you come down on what you're seeing? are they even arguing about the same problem? it seems like sometimes they're not even on the same page. >> t.j., i think they are on the same page and i think it is a balancing act.

but i think that the policy has to be driven by what can we handle, and it's an overwhelming number at this point. and when you come in to starting schools, where are you going to put these children for the school needs and the care needs? it just is untenable. so i do think that the right thing is for them to go back home and be reunited with their families, and i think there needs to be a clear message from the president that it is not the right thing for parents to send their children away. sometimes with people who are abusing them, in the hopes that they're going to find a way to stay here, because we just can't accommodate the numbers that that would entail, and the numbers that would grow if the message is not clear. >> senator, what do you think

the message has been, and is the message being sent as well in the president's $3.7 billion request, what he's asking for that money for, is that sending the message? because again, we're hearing a lot of, you can't stay. and then once they get here, quite frankly, they end up with a reprieve. >> well, and the message has to be clear and it has to be followed up. i think the message has not been clear from the president, and i think that there has been a miscommunication, that if a child comes here, they will not be sent back. that is an erroneous interpretation of what the president did when he said they would not deport the children who had come here before a certain date under the age of 13

and we're edge katucated alreadr school systems. that's a different thing. now we're looking at children who are being used by predators to come into our country in numbers that we just can't adequately service. >> i want to bring you back in, because you kind of alluded to this, that 2008 law that a lot of people talk about, that president bush did sign into law, which is the one that essentially you can't just turn around kids from central america. they have to be put into the deportation process. and that in turn is why they end up here for so long. but that had bipartisan support when it went through congress. had wide bipartisan support, quite frankly. so is that the way to go, to change law, to start treating central american kids like the ones who come in through mexico and not get a day in court, but just to turn them around the border and send them home? >> it's a very slippery process. a lot of it has to do with the fact that many of these children already have very deep ties in the united states. some of them even have first-degree parents. maybe they even have a mother, a father, a sister.

the other thing to keep in mind too is the age old due process. remember that little thing in the constitution? and what's really important is how are you going to really investigate thoroughly what an individual child's situation is, where they're coming from, and what kind of a situation they would be going back to. i couldn't agree with senator hutchison more, children belong with their parents, but some of those parents may already be here. some may be in an extreme situation caught in the crossfire of this violence that we're seeing in honduras. i think what's really important to keep in mind is that this $3.7 billion request from the president is just one of the high price tags of not having comprehensive immigration reform. it's already happening in municipalities, in states, including the state of texas. but states and municipalities are not in charge of enforcing and keeping our border secure. and federal immigration policy.

>> john, i want to give you my last minute that i have here on governor perry. governor perry has actually been put back into the national spotlight because this is happening, of course, in his state. he wrote an op-ed, that when i first saw this popping up, i thought it was going to be about what's happening in texas. he talks about foreign policy. he talks about iraq. he talks about a lot of things. he takes on senator rand paul saying it's disheartening to hear fellow republicans such as rand paul suggest that our nation should ignore what's happening in iraq. so he's talking about everything, it seems, except in his op-ed, at least, except what's happening in texas. why? is he taking advantage of a spotlight he has right now? does he just have this stuff on his chest anyway the. >> i think it's pretty simple, t.j. he's running for president. when a governor spouts off about foreign policy and attacks one of the perceived frontrunners in his own party, he's just running for president. now, there are a lot of distortions or caricatures, including of rand paul's position and the comparison of today's world to the world of ronald reagan, and an attempt --

he actually took time to take a shot at the president. of course, rick perry is running for president. the only question is whether he decides ultimately to follow through on that or not to. but that's all that's about. >> all right, always good to have you. look forward to getting you back in new york. thanks to you all. enjoy the rest of your weekend. >> thank you, t.j. have you heard, something in the news about lebron james recently, right? something, right? cleveland rocks, i'm told. >> fantastic! lebron is coming back. we're going to have a winning basketball team, the republican national convention. it's a great town without all of that! now it's even more fantastic. >> i will keep my cleveland comments to myself. it's a lovely town. it really is. lebron james going back home to cleveland. we'll talk to a leading sports columnist who says he predicted this a year ago. you use tide pods? yeah!

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lebron is coming home. nothing can describe that feeling. lebron's coming home, man. >> you're from ohio. you're the only person happy in miami? >> i'm the only one. >> thank you. all is forgiven. we love you. thank you very much. >> she was sending in hate mail four years ago. cleveland fans were burning jerseys back in 2010. you remember that. they've gone from that to welcoming him back with open arms. one of the ways the news broke was this instagram post by king james saying i'm coming home. cleveland winning at best with this headline on the front page. he is coming home. this news didn't bring a lot of smiles in miami. this mural of the entire team that took two years to create was defaced.

lebron's face was blacked out. david is a sports editor for the nation magazine. young fella, you predicted this. how did you know this was going to happen? >> i wrote about it a year ago. it's called reading the lebron tea leaves. one of the things about lebron that's been apparent for a few years is he does see himself as more than an athlete and wants to do more than collect championship rings. he said his goal was to be a global icon. it seemed like for quite a few years he said that without actually knowing what it means. yet we've seen in miami over the last several years lebron james standing up for justice for trayvon martin. lebron james being the first nba player to say donald sterling has no place in the nba given his racist comments. that lebron james realizes there's a lot more cultural champion to bringing one

championship to cleveland and coming home. >> isn't this a success? jobs will be created because this guy is going back to cleveland. >> yes. the estimated value is between 200 and half a billion dollars. this is a city in cleveland that psychologically important too. not just dollars and cents the it's lost almost one-fifth of the its population. he was so symbolic of another young, gifted person who when he came of age left cleveland. the idea of coming back, not at the end of his career but still at the height of his basketball powers that has a psychological value beyond numbers. >> he said my calling is above basketball. i have a responsibility to lead in more ways than one. i take that very seriously. this sowns like a different dude than four years ago.

i like how he put some kids graduate and come back home. he said miami was like college for him. >> the four years they also got lebron two championship rings. without those rings it's almost like you don't have the keys to the kingdom to be that role model, that kind of leader for young players and fans. he's got his rings. he did his four years in miami and now he's coming home. >> all right. the tea leaf reader himself from the nation magazine. good to see you. thanks for coming in. thank you for watching. we'll be back here tomorrow at 3:00 eastern time. keep it here. the latest news updates throughout the evening. you'll want to catch this young fella. jose diaz-balart new show monday on july 14th. you don't want to miss him on monday.

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