to let up any time soon. right now the arab league is holding an emergency meeting in cairo calling on the international community to intervene and broker a cease-fire. so far, israel has launched 1500 attacks on gaza. the militant group hamas has fired about 1,000 rockets, most intercepted by israel's iron dome shield. that's why there have been zero casualties in israel, while in gaza, the death toll it over 170. in northern gaza, a massive evacuation is under way. 17,000 palestinians have fled their homes for u.n. protection. the u.n. has pulled 150 american citizens out of gaza. in the past week, the israeli military has been trying to take out hamas rocket capabilities inside gaza. both sides are starting to lay out cease-fire conditions, but no formal proposals are on table. we have reports from both sides of the border with nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv, and nbc's ayman mohyeldin in gaza. let's start with you, martin. >> reporter: hi, toure.

the fighting is continuing and getting worse in places here. the israelis are continuing to bombard northern gaza where they sent leaflets warning the residents to flee. israel said they need to attack that area because that's where many of the rockets are fired from. so now about 17,000 residents from that town have run away. they're now sheltering in schools run by the united nations. israel says after it deals with that area, it may well continue the same warnings in other areas, forcing more palestinians to flee. now, these pictures of the palestinians running away, refugees in their own refugee camp, if you'd like, and all the pictures of the 180-odd palestinians dead in gaza, many of them civilians according to the united nations, many of them children, is building up diplomatic pressure for a cease-fire. the arab league is meeting in cairo today. the united states and the

europeans are involved in trying to come up with some truth proposals, but the israeli. benjamin netanyahu said this attack will go on for, quote, a very long time if necessary. israel says it'll continue doing what it needs to do to defend its population in israel. >> i'm ayman mohyeldin in gaza. we're seven days into this conflict. there are no signs that the violence or the rhetoric from either side is slowing down. in fact, today quite a sharp escalation both in the northern part of the israel and here in the south. the israeli government says it shot down a palestinian drone, which hamas has actually claimed responsibility for. they are now showcasing the fact that they have these drones, and seven days into being attacked by israel, they say they still have the ability to hit targets deep inside the country. that's a testament to what they say is the success of palestinian factions and the rocket capability they have developed over the years. but israel, for its part, says it will not stop until these rockets come to a complete halt.

they're even threatening a ground invasion over the weekend, ordering thousands of palestinians to leave their homes, mostly in areas that are on the border between israel and gaza. as a result of that, the u.n. says 17,000 palestinians have now fled their homes and have taken up refuge at u.n. schools that have been converted into makeshift shelters. the question, though, that remains on everyone's mind is whether or not that ground invasion is going to happen. obviously, the big concern for officials here, both health officials and u.n. officials, is what that ground invasion would mean to a rising civilian casualty death toll that we've seen unfold over the past several days. back to you guys. >> nbc's ayman missouohyeldin ia and martin fletcher in tel aviv. let's dig deeper now. reeva, obviously anything that happens in this region has deep historical roots. but this particular go around, this particular part of the conflict was sparked by hamas.

they pushed this. they escalated it. it seems that they wanted a fight with israel at this moment. why would hamas want a problem with israel right now? >> well, the roots of this particular episode are a little blurry as well. i mean, even prior to the current escalation, you had a couple of really tragic killings, you know, not just the three israeli teenagers that were killed, but you also have the death of a palestinian boy. so there was a lot locally that was building up. notably when the bodies of those these israeli teenagers were found, hamas tried to distance itself from the incident. then once you had air strikes start and once you had the rocket attacks start, it basically built up on its own momentum. now, does hamas want to display its rocket capabilities and basically expose israel's intelligence failure? yes. do they want to sustain a prolonged conflict with israel? probably not.

>> well, reva, in israel, these periodic offensives are preferred to as mowing the lawn w the idea that they can strike hamas, they can degrade the weapons capabilities and essentially buy peace and security for a few more years. but there's reason to bereave, because hamas is more internationally isolated now, they no longer have the allies in egypt and syria they previously had, that actually this particular offensive could be more effective and have a longer lasting impact on hamas' capabilities this time around. >> yeah, but, you know, hamas actually faces a big political crisis at home because when you have more than 1,000 air strikes on the gaza strip, obviously that has a very deep impact on the civilians in gaza who are feeling the brunt of that attack. so hamas suffers for that politically. indeed, you've already seen other militant factions like palestinian islamic jihad increase in their popularity as hamas has been under all this

political pressure to break out of that isolation. that's why it signed a deal with fattah recently. meanwhile, other resistance groups like the palestinian islamic jihad, they're basically taking the glory on the militancy front. >> reva, build on that point. because one of the criticisms of some of the israeli defense force approach here is one of too broad attack, collective punishment. from a geostrategic perspective, what you just said basically applies logic to it and says if the countermeasure is strong enough, that hamas will actually end up taking the blame. build on that. >> so that's part of it. but here's israel's core dilemma. one, we've seen long-range rocket attacks coming out of gaza in very significant numbers. that means that since 2012, israel has been unable to interdict those supplies. these are rockets that can reach deep into urban israeli territory. and that is intolerable for the israelis. when you look at that, how does

israel deal with that? one, it wants to militarily degrade hamas' capabilities so they can't launch these rocket attacks. if you're only prur suing a military operation primarily by air, there are constraints to that. clearly israel has not been able to cut off that flow from the air or in trying to interdict supply routes that go to gaza. so israel already has an intelligence constraint in actually going through with a ground assault. so that's why you see that hesitation now. on the other hand, how do you enforce any sort of cease-fire agreement when you know you can't rely on the regional players, notably egypt as well as sudan, to actually prevent these rockets from getting into gaza. >> we know this because this is a conflict, reva, that has been around since the beginning of time. if you just look back at the past 60 years, every president, every administration has been through something very similar to what they're experiencing right now, trying to negotiate these peace talks. what is the end game here? is there an end game?

and ultimately f the united states doesn't have the influence to make any real meaningful change, who does? >> is there an end game? no, not that many people can see at all, right. so from israel's perspective, they have an interest in making sure that the palestinian landscape, the political landscape remains divided between gaza and the west bank and politically between hamas and fattah. and so that way israel is able to manage any negotiation over a two-state solution more effectively from its point of view. from the palestinian side, they're trying to raise the blockade, the economic blockades on gaza. using force to do that is an imperfect tactic, at best, as we can already see. and the more israel feels constrained in containing the military capabilities of hamas factions, the more they'll be

undermined. >> reva, thank you. and next, have we finally hit the turning point? "the cycle" is going to keep going. it's monday, july 14th. the harrison household. but one dark, stormy evening... she needed a good meal and a good family. so we gave her purina cat chow complete. it's great because it has the four cornerstones of nutrition. everything a cat needs for the first step to a healthy, happy life. purina cat chow complete. share your rescue story and join us in building better lives. one rescue at a time. you've reached the age where you know how things work. this is the age of knowing what needs to be done. so why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra. 20 million men already have. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain;

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a federal judge in florida could rule any time now on the legality of that state's six-year-old voter approved ban on marriage equality. if that ban is struck down, florida could start down the same road as 19 states and the district of columbia, which now permit same-sex couples to get married. as the dominos continue to fall on this issue, is there now a move among some republicans to move in that direction as well? over the weekend, wisconsin

governor scott walker told the associated press that the party isn't fighting the tide. they're not necessarily embracing it, but instead he says they're focused on ere issues like the economy. granted, those comments did come just days after he appealed a ruling similar to what we are expecting in florida, striking down wisconsin's ban on same-sex marriage. go figure. still, little by little, the gop might be having a little bit of a change of heart when it comes to matters of the heart. if for no other reason, perhaps they're realizing they can't keep alienating an ever-growing group of voters forever. for more on this issue and other politics of the day, let's turn to the senior editor at the new republic. nice to see you, brian. >> thanks for having me. >> as i see governors like scott walker trying to sort of temper their stance on same-sex marriage, i am reminded of mitch daniels, former indiana governor, republican governor, who famously declared they should have a truce on social issues. of course, that all went by the wayside once republicans started

fighting a primary battle in 2012. do you think this new-ish rhetoric from the right could see that same run-in with the reality of their base in 2016? >> yeah, i think the hope within the gop is that they can kind of coalesce around this sort of quiet resignation to the reality of same-sex marriage, which will probably be, you know, the law of the land pretty soon. the question is sort of whether that position will hold when they're kind of in contest with each other for the nomination. it seems to me that they're going to get pulled in this direction of trying to, you know, make a carve out for religious conservatives who oppose same-sex marriages if they're business owners, et cetera, whether they should -- >> along the lines of hobby lobby. >> exactly. whether they should be able to apply that exact same argument to their hiring and firing decisions. if they get pulled in that direction, that's really combustible. we saw it blow up in arizona a few months ago. if it becomes the sort of go-to republican party position during the 2016 presidential primary, i don't think those politics are

going to work out very well for them. >> ultimately, though, i don't see this issue as being about the left versus the right. this is really about ensuring equality for all americans. yes, democrats have evolved much quicker in large part than republicans have, but it seems every time a republican comes out and says, i'm evolving on this, whether on rhetoric or just in tone or whatever it is, there's criticism from the left that, you know what, they're only doing it because they have to politically or they're only doing it because a family member of theirs is gay. they don't actually want to believe in gay marriage. so they only get a crumb. they don't actually get a whole cookie for changing their tone here. >> yeah, ari. >> is that the most productive way to approach this? ultimately, as you said, this is going to be the law of the land. shouldn't we be promoting and pushing any sort of movement in the right direction, even if it takes some people slower time to get there? >> yeah, i think you just need to kind of separate the two issues. when rob portman, who has a gay son, came out in support of same-sex marriage, there was some grumbling on the left and elsewhere about how he should have had the moral imagination

to be able to support same-sex marriage before he saw it was harming his own family. but i think that if the entire republican party were to very quickly evolve and to adopt rob portman's decision, that arguing about technicalities would subside quickly and everybody would be pretty grateful that the issue was put behind them. then the parties could contest for voters on other issues. >> democrats have only evolved recently as well. >> well, look, the democratic party doesn't have a pristine record here on this from a partisan perspective. it's a debate we've had on the show. what you're referring to as a technicality some people would refer to as a moral fill os iph. if you were born long enough ago, you probably need to evolve. i think one of the questions is, do you have a political philosophy to explain why you do things not only out of pure self-interest? >> absolutely. that's right.

brian, do you want to respond? >> i actually completely agree. i believe what's going to matter to voters and people most is that the country and their representatives come around to respecting their lives, their livelihoods. and if, you know, the politician in question came about for sort of morally dubious reasons, it might be remembered, but i don't think it'll be remembered for as long a period of time as the fact they've made the change of heart in the end. >> brian, i want to help this conversation evolve a little bit into another major issue of the day. i want to get your thoughts on the border crisis situation. >> no cookie for you. only a crumb. >> no cookie for me? all right, krystal. there's a new bill being introduced right now that would call for voluntary reunification with family, but as luke russert writes about this, it's unclear why any child would voluntarily go back to the country they tritr tried so hard to flee. so the border crisis has the president in a bind. he is a man who generally tries to find the middle ground.

there is no middle ground on this. either they say or they are sent back. which ever way we go, one side or the other will find that as part of the ruination of america. >> yeah, i think that's right. i'd like to try to distinguish in this case between, you know, the political consequences of what's going to happen, however we end up addressing the child migrant crisis from the sort of politics surrounding it, which are going to be kind of unpredictable and a little beside the point when you have so many people possibly whose lives are at stake. but right now i think the president wants to move on a bill that would cost about $4 billion. it would help both address the migrants already here and also to stem the tide a little bit so that the problem dissipates at least. and there's not that much movement in the republican party on this because, you know, they have a few reasons they're saying they oppose doing it. one of which they claim is that the bill would be too expensive. we know that's not true.

because republicans are in favor of spending lots more than $4 billion to secure the border. so they're kind of having a hard time coming up with a plausible justification for why they oppose a bill that would at least address this one particular -- the patch to this problem. and it's hard to escape the thought that some people in the republican party at least like the optics of this child migrant crisis more than they want to actually work, you know, constructively to resolve it. >> yeah. >> it's a sad statement. >> you're in washington there. the other big story a couple blocks away from you, brian, was attorney general eric holder and associate attorney general tony west today announcing what is a significant $7 billion fine settlement against citibank p pursuant to mortgage failures, irregularities most of us would call lying. that's not a legal term. but a lot of the lying that led to confusion and broken dreams

and lost money in the financial crisis. i would argue one of the biggest political stories of our time. doesn't always get the attention. why do you think the administration here hasn't done more to sell the fact that they got a $7 billion bite out of a big bank here? >> well, i kind of see the issue a little differently. my friend seth michaels wrote about this earlier today. he joked that the headline on the article should be called area wrists slapped. $7 billion. a lot of the fines and penalties that have accrued to wall street in the aftermath of the crisis have had big nominal numbers on them like $7 billion. i would like $ 7 billion. but it's actually not all that much money in the grand scheme of things. i think that, you know, there's a sense that if you impose a large sounding penalty that isn't actually substantially large for an institution that size -- >> but this is record breaking. you have a separate discussion whether people should go to jail, but this is one of the biggest ever. >> right. it is one of the biggest ever. that just goes to show you the bar is starting from an

extremely low point. and, you know, the financial crisis in 2008 was born of a lot of super extraordinary malfeasances and probably deserves to be, you know -- we should look back on that and think, we don't want to just break the record of penalty for the sake of doing it but to actually discourage future recklessness like this. i think if the banks can see, you know, for the cost of doing business they can engage in extremely reckless and immoral behavior, they'll continue to do so. >> brian, thank you as always. >> thank you so much. >> and still ahead, the international manhunt that helped cost citigroup that $7 billion, ari. but up next, millions of americans in the path of severe weather. we'll get you up to speed. that's next. vo: this is the summer.

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80 million americans, one quarter of our population, is on storm watch right now. the main areas of concern

stretch from chicago, south to mississippi, and all the way back up to here in new york city, where a flood watch is in effect through tomorrow. severe thunderstorms, large hail, and even isolated tornadoes are possible. then after that, a polar invasion, or at least as polar as you can get in mid-july. some areas of the upper midwest will struggle to make it out of the 60s for daytime highs by midweek with possible record lows in the forecast at night. keep it with us and with weather.com for all the latest on your forecast. now changing gears. when i was a kid, my mother told me that as a black person in america, i would have to work twice as hard to get ahead. there is statistical evidence that she was right. a new report called closing the race gap finds young black adults need to have a college degree in order to have the same job prospects as a white person with a high school degree. but the more education a black person attains, the more the employment gap diminishes. gaps in levels of education

tribute significantly to the jobs kri jobs crisis in black america. as the cost of college rises, the ability to move up grows harder. louisiana senator mary landrieu is trying to do something about it. she and hawaii senator have authored the creating higher educational affordable necessary to compete economic act. in short, it's called the c.h.a.n.c.e. act. it aims to make college more affordable by increasing pell grants. tom allison is their policy and research manager. welcome to you, tom. why is it that black adults need a college degree to have the same job attainment as a white person with a high school degree? >> well, there are lots of reasons for that, toure. one of the reasons is that we have centuries of racial discrimination in this country. but it's still sort of present. we know that young african-americans have an

unemployment rate that's double of their white counterparts. but we also know that education can help close the race gaps. so in our new report, closing the race gap, we found that young african-americans need two extra degrees of college attainment to have the same chance of having a job as their white counterpart. so as an example of that, imagine a young african-american needing an associates degree that takes two years of their time and costs over $20,000 just to have the same chance of having a job as their white counterpart with a high school degree. so they're definitely at a disadvantage, but education can help close the gap. >> right. i mean, you look at that fact, and it's so messed up. we're going to put the chart back up on the screen that just shows it. as you're saying, and as the c.h.a.n.c.e. act and other educational support would help, looking at the red line, you have to get out over to the right of the red line as an african-american student or graduate to get anywhere near where your white counterpart would be with less education. so increasing money to the pell

grant, which is what senator landrieu's bill would do among other things, helps that. what about the underlying systemic and racial inequities that statistic speaks to? >> well, it's certainly true we have modern-day bigotry in this country. there was a famous study a couple years ago that looked at two sets of identical resumes, but one had a black-sounding name. the other had a white-sounding name. when they found that, sure enough, the black-sounding names received more call backs for the interview than the white-sounding name -- >> fewer call backs. >> yes, sorry. exactly right. so i think we know that education can work to close the gap. i think that certainly senator landrieu's c.h.a.n.c.e. act is going to make college for aff d affordab affordable. there are things we can do at the high school level as well. if your parents went to college, that's the equivalent of having a college counselor in your house. they know when the deadlines are, can help you through the process.

it's all very complicated. so i think that, you know, we can increase the amount of counselors there. there's more work we can do on the state level too. there's only so much that the federal government can do. there have been some nasty trends in state divestment. that's really what's driving the large amount of tuition increases in this country. >> exactly. and in order to get federal student aid known as fasfa, it's incredibly complicated. it's 120 questions. i can't imagine what some of those questions are. it's just not easy to do. and a solution you propose is just asking two simple questions. how many people are in your family, and what is your income? probably the two most important questions that you would have to answer. how much will this do, though, to narrow the gap? >> i'm sorry? >> how much will that do to narrow the gap if you simplify it? >> oh, it would do a lot. we know there are hundreds of millions of dollars that students are leaving on the table because they're not

applying for -- through the fasfa and not getting the benefits they're eligible for. so reducing those questions, making it really simple, moving the timetable back, i think will really go a long way. luckily, there's some movement in congress right now -- >> wait, say that again. >> there's some movement in congress to simplify the fasfa down to those two questions. >> say what? >> tom, another solution that is highlighted in this report that i hadn't really thought about before, which i thought was really interesting, was boosting also federal funding of community colleges. right now four-year institutions get 86% more funding than two-year institutions. and those two-year institutions are disproportionately more likely to serve communities of color. so that would have a huge impact as well. is there any movement in that direction? >> well, you're absolutely right. you know, we know that low-income students and african-american students, their first contact with our higher education system is the two-year school.

so anything that we can do to support those schools, increase the quality of that education, but then also to encourage four-year institutions in states to honor those two-year credits and make the transfers to four-year degrees so much easier. so that's definitely something that we need to look at it. there's a lot of value in community colleges. frankly, they often get overlooked in our discussions. >> indeed that, is true. tom allison, thank you very much. up next, your tax dollars at work. the one issue republicans like abby are willing to spend millions on. investigating benghazi. [ yodeling plays ]

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settlement against citigroup was only reached after a delay caused by the u.s. catching the benghazi suspect, which actually turned out to give negotiators more time to reach that deal. the captures also muted some of the politics of benghazi, which were once at watergate levels for many republicans on the attack. >> nobody died in watergate. >> more serious than watergate? >> absolutely. >> all that drama you may remember led house republicans to create a special committee devoted to reinvestigating the attacks in may. congress has previously conducted seven investigations. now the new committee met for the first time this month, and its budget is now out. on an annual basis, it is bigger than major committees like those devoted to veterans. we spoke to the staff that day. they said the budget figure is the high-end estimate. we expect there will be less spent as the staffing process is still ongoing. either way, though, many are asking if all of this means the house doesn't have all of its priorities in order.

igor has been covering the investigation. he's managing editor of think progress. good afternoon. >> hello. >> a tt a basic, broad level, wn you look at all this energy about benghazi, the suspect captured, do you think republicans have built a committee they're not sure how to use at this point? >> yeah, what are they going to investigate? they held about 13 hearings on top of the 50 classified briefings that staff and members received. so the question is, what else is there to look into? look, i think at the end of the day, this is really about 2016. it's about hillary clinton. and that's pretty much it. >> well, and igor, i have a theory it's also about something else, which is that the republican party really is deeply divided. you don't knead to look further than the issue of immigration to see how two camps are diverging. one thing, though, that they all agree on and that keeps them all together is their distaste for this president.

so in my view, the attempt, and this isn't the first time they've tried to create a scandal. we had the fast and furious issue. we had irs. we have benghazi, which of course there are real issues there to investigate, but they haven't gone about it in anywhere near a responsible way. i think all of this is really about trying to keep their own party together and feed something to their base that they at least all agree on. >> yeah, and of course the big divide now is, do you sue the president or do you impeach the president? they're still world apart there. but this is something you can organize voters for 2014, certainly, and yes, bring everyone in on message and kind of directly against both obama and of course hillary. >> igor, i have a theory it's actually about something else. this is something they can fundraise around. dems have been fundraising, to be fair, in response to republican fundraising around this. but it seems that there's nothing sacred around what folks will fundraise over.

>> yeah, no. this is really tremendous, the fact you've had these four people die, a u.s. ambassador, yet a way to bring in the money. i think last week they did a fundraiser over george h.w. bush's socks. i think they should stick to that. >> great socks. >> certainly members have tried to kind of clamp down that practice, but i think in certain districts, it's probably still going on. >> yeah, i have my theory as well. that is i'm more concerned about the money here. to me, it is that -- i guess it's less of a theory and more of a complaint -- of how much the political bandwidth it has consumed. this is exactly why we are seeing nothing getting done in washington, d.c. that is the fault of the lawmakers but also media in large part are focusing on this

so much. how is this thing going to end? is this thing ever going to end? >> oh, i don't think it's going to end until after 2016. you're going to have smoking gun after smoking gun. at the end, they're all going to be proven to have no fire at all in them, no bullets, no ammunition, so to speak. and you're going to have this cloud of suspicion, and that's really the point. to use the cloud of suspicion to pull down democratic candidates. >> yeah, and on the substantive part, the exchange that was had in open congress was not the committee. the memorable exchange with former senator, former secretary of state clinton, where she said, look, what does it matter? ultimately, when does it matter when we figure out how to explain what we thought the intelligence services at the time believed the cause of this attack was? and that question looms because i don't know that the republicans have found the answer. as we mentioned today in this segment, one of the last substantive things that you could have said about them was, well, where is the attacker snr they've caught him now too. so what do they have left on former secretary of state clinton here? >> well, i don't know how much they have left. certainly she's been on a book tour trying to answer all of those questions. but i think, you know, they also are divided now.

the house chairman of the arms committee, for instance, didn't want this special committee. neither did darrell issa. they think, look, we've already conducted these investigations. we've done a good enough job. how much more is the special committee going to do? should we be giving up jurisdiction? they don't think so. so even this entire tactic, i think s causing divisions. >> well, i think that part of the point of the length of the benghazi meme shows, once again, how polarized we are. it is a purely motivational meme. it will not persuade anybody. anybody who would consider voting democratic will not be moved by benghazi. and anybody who's moved by benghazi was already predisposed to vote for a republican. but it is the sort of thing that will get folks excited, making them want to vote, making them want to give money. >> yes, absolutely. you're right. at the end of the day, this is a d.c. story. it's not something that is going to fill town halls. it's not something law makers

are getting questions about necessarily. but it's something that i think brings in those fundraising pitches and fills up their coffers. >> well, igor, i think we've covered it pretty well in this segment. do you want to do it seven more times? >> sure, let's go. >> let's have 13 meetings about it and we'll do the segment seven more times. >> igor, thank you again. >> thank you. up next, a group of parents and business leaders so fed up with their public schools, they didn't just change their school, they changed their whole city, but not everyone thinks it's a great idea. we'll tell you why. [ female announcer ] rock a 3d white smile. with crest 3d white luxe toothpaste. only crest 3d white has whitelock technology. it removes stains within the microfine lines of your teeth... and locks out future stains. crest 3d white luxe toothpaste. life opens up with a whiter smile. it's about getting to the finish line. in life, it's how you get there that matters most. it's important to know the difference.

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there's a surprising new trend in our school system that seems hard to believe in the year 2014. racial segregation is on the rise. the number of schools where 1% or less of student population is white has more than doubled in the last 20 years. ground zero for that fight right now is ba baton rouge, louisiana, where a school system has led a group of parents to go to the extreme measure of trying to break away and form their own city and school system. a new documentary airs tomorrow night on pbs at 10:00 p.m. here's a quick look behind the scenes. >> in louisiana, some parents want to break away from the baton rouge school district. >> these are some of the worst schools in the country. nobody is getting educated in these schools. >> and start their own. >> it will be segregated along

race lines and class lines. >> the fight over education and desegregation. >> we have an african-american president. they achieved their goal. who can say we're not desegregator desegregators? >> 60 years after the supreme court declared racial segregation of schools unconstitutional, the battle seems far from over. here with us is the documentary's writer and producer. you've been down on the ground. you understand everything that's going on. my reaction to this was it seems any parent would want the best education for their child. clearly, there are some issues here that they are speaking out about. they want to have change. this does, though, feel like it's a bit to the extreme and a step backwards. >> that's very interesting. we were drawn to the topic because we think it's terrifically resonant for all viewers, for parents, for taxpayers alike. we think it's a tremendously complex issue that is difficult to unravel and deserves unraveling. certainly those parents that are moved to this rather extreme

measure, you know, have an argument that many identify with and certainly many are motivated by a desire to create and craft a quality education for their own child. i think the really difficult and profound question is whether or not, you know, they are, and all of us, are obligated to consider the quality of education for children, you know, that aren't their own. >> right. >> i want to show a little clip from the film so people get a real understanding of what the stakes are here. roll that. >> they've begun a movement to form an entirely new city out of a large area of suburban neighborhoods, taking part of the east baton rouge parish school system with them. the new city would be called st. george and would be whiter and more affluent than baton rouge. >> we have seen white flight based on a stubborn resistance to desegregate for decades, if not centuries in this country. i'm from boston, so i know all about that first hand. this seems very pernicious. i understand parents wanting the

best for their children, but it seems to me there's something beneath that's really animating this desire to get away from the rest of the folks in this neighborhood. what's really behind their desire to segregate themselves? >> i think that, you know, our job as journalists is to observe and reports. certainly when we speak to those parents, citizens, and business leaders who want to break away, they say their desire stems solely and entirely from a desire for quality education for their children. their opponents, however, would say -- and one of the distinguished experts interviewed in the film says we need to consider that sometimes individuals who don't have racist or racial motivations take actions that impact one race disproportionately. >> i think that's so well said. you don't have to feel that animus to have an impact on one group disproportionately. what are the stakes here? let's say that this proposal goes through, st. george becomes its own thing, which is not only a whiter area, it's also a

wealthier area. it takes a lot of funding with it. what does that mean for the students left in the baton rouge school district? >> i think the stakes couldn't be higher. the stakes couldn't be higher. and that's why you see this level of sort of vigor and passion in the debate. when we're talking about the education of a child, we're not only talking about their well being, but we're talking about the health and vitality of our economy, right. of a local economy, of the baton rouge economy, of the louisiana economy, of our nation's economy. certainly those on both sides of the debate see that as part of the conversation as well. >> but also, ari, if you're talking about creating two sort of americas or two louisianas where the black students get a lesser education and they're not educated with everybody, that's not positive for anybody. >> right. and we're talking about the racial part. there's also the part that goes to one's relationship with government and philosophy of government. in this case, local government. public schools are government. what i'm hearing is we talk a lot about privatization of government and the idea among some conservatives that certain things work better if you just hand them over to the private

sector, right. like fedex more than the post office. fine. that's a kind of consumer perspective. but this is not that. this strikes me as going much deeper. the part i find concerning is the view strikes me, this goes much deeper, the concern of the view of people saying we want all the goodies of government, of this public bond and public power. but we want to run it like a business for our own students, because i don't have kids, right? but i'm happy to pay into my local school system because i think it is good for the society and the nation and the society at large. but i have just as much conceptualizing that way, for a nonparent, if somebody said i want to take brooklyn, we have a lot of battles elsewhere, but i want to leave the taxpayers behind, i am going to object to

that as a non-parent. >> sure, there are those in the film who say, we would like to -- to your point, what is the desire of the government to take a role? there are those who say we have achieved integration, and the government need no longer enforce this. and there are those who say clearly we are not segregated. clearly, the government should intervene and act as a regulating force, which is a debate of course that goes to the core of the american political debate. >> well, mary, one thing that has enabled this to come about, not just in baton rouge, but in other states and localities, is there is a lifting of the de-segregation order. so you no longer have that oversight mandated. and this is not just in baton rouge, but other areas in the

south. >> and the interviewer in the film says we really began to see a movement away from de-segregation orders begin williing with the supreme court decisions in 1991, and the re-segregation of our schools has been effectively supported by a series of court rulings that gradually reinforced our power. >> do you think the city will in fact form for this new school district or will it take years to figure out. >> that is a very difficult question, bun that everybody in baton rouge wants to figure out. i project we'll see years of fighting over this. >> up next, i want to remind you, "separate and unequal" airs tomorrow. and later, we have more on the crisis at the border. stick with us. ah...

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breaking news on the humanitarian crisis unfolding on our border. the department of homeland security has just confirmed that 40 adults and children who recently crossed the border into america have been returned to honduras. dhs expects more to be returned to guatemala and el salvador. it shows america is at a crossroads, and the path we choose will say a lot about how great a nation we are. a great nation does things not only for their nation but also for other nations when their homelands break down. kids caught in the cross-fire of a drug war, in which the gangs

battle for territory and are killing people faster than anywhere in the world. kids who are being recruited as foot soldiers and customers. kids who are seeing murder and rapes all around them, kids who are being murdered and raped. sending them back, some say, you are handing them a death sentence. and the president plans to return most of the kids and looks to expedite the process, when the only thing that a great nation should think is where to place these childrens, and where we stand on the fact that a great nation does not turn children away in life and death sentences. are we not the nation who says give me your tired, your poor, breathing free, your teeming shore, send these to me, i live my lamp beside the golden door. we have poor, huddled homeless

children yearning to breathe free. could america really close the door in their face. he asks, is there a casual connection? if our actions have contributed to the refugees not being safe at home then we must help. after the vietnam war we took in hundreds of thousands from vietnam, cambodia and laos, some call this a humanitarian crisis, i believe this is a refugee crisis, people who can't return home without losing their lives or their freedom. our refugees. and if we are in a position to help them then we must. if somebody you knew, a neighbor said please help me or they will kill me, who among you would say no? there are questions about the

more a morality question, that right becomes meaningless if other states feel no duty to help the refugees and more. but that would be to return them to the powers that be. and it would be a huge victory for the cartels. it would convince everybody in central america that there is no way out. that they must submit. is that what a great nation does? is that what a moral nation does? mr. president, some things are bigger than d's in the midterms. some things are more important than global responsibilities. and we just dump the children back on the killing fields? then that would make us a less than great nation. if we turn our backs on these kids and then send them back to die then how can we look in the mirror and call ourselves the world's greatest nation? that does it for "the cycle." now with alex wagner starts now.

it is monday, july 14th, and this is "now." >> we got iraq to a good point by the time we left office. >> in the battle of iraq, the united states and our allies have prevailed. >> i think between nouri maliki's failures, we have a huge mess. >> criticizing rand paul's stands on iraq. >> obviously, senator paul leaves something to be desired new this is the firsthand to hand combat of the 2016 republican race. we must engage. we need to send clear messages and powerful messages. >> what do you say to those who say you were so wrong about so much, at the expense of so many? >> i fundamentally disagree. >> and inhe