it is monday, july 14th, and this is "now." >> we got iraq to a good point by the time we left office. >> in the battle of iraq, the united states and our allies have prevailed. >> i think between nouri maliki's failures, we have a huge mess. >> criticizing rand paul's stands on iraq. >> obviously, senator paul leaves something to be desired new this is the firsthand to hand combat of the 2016 republican race. we must engage. we need to send clear messages and powerful messages. >> what do you say to those who say you were so wrong about so much, at the expense of so many? >> i fundamentally disagree. >> and in the battle for the

cause of liberty and the peace of the world. >> you destroyed iraq. >> iraq just had its deadliest month in nearly ten years. a third of the country is now controlled by islamic extremists, but in dick cheney, all this has nothing to do with the war started by the bush administration. this month, former vice president dick cheney alongside with his daughter, lin, and wife liz, took us down memory lane, if memory lane was a river in egypt, denial. before that, this happened. >> arrest dick cheney, war criminal. you destroyed iraq. you destroyed iraq. >> and three minutes later?

this happened. >> we call for -- >> i wondered why the line was so long. >> honestly, lynn cheney, we all wonder why. why, when they led the nation to the war of mass destruction, why in front of a live audience they were once again talking about weapons of mass destruction. >> what i fear, clear back in april of '91, before '91, i was asked in new york magazine what i feared most by a strategic threat to the united states. and it was the idea of terrorists armed with weapons of mass destruction, chemicals, biological, or nuclear capability. well, if you look now, we are

faced with the nuclear capability. it is a cauldron out there with the potential developments with respect to nuclear power. >> but it was not just cheney's talk about wmd's that defied credibility, he said going into iraq was quote, absolutely the right thing to do and took absolutely no responsibility for the chaos in the country at present. in fact, cheney did the opposite. >> we got iraq to a good point by the time we left office. we had defeated al-qaeda in iraq. they were virtually gone by the time we finished our tour of office. and i think between nouri maliki's failures and obama's failures we have a huge mess on our hands. he is the commander-in-chief and is absolutely devastating the military today. >> before he left the stage, cheney left the audience with one more zinger, one more reason to ponder who else to invade. >> i don't like what is happening, i think we're setting

ourselves up for terrible problems, worst than we saw in 9/11. >> joining me now, senior fellow of government governments, e. j.dionne. let me start with you, is it a good thing to have dick cheney weighing in on iraq? >> well, what other voices are out there i guess is the more credible question. and that is what you hear and see coming from the likes of rand paul really is stirring the frustration. also offering some semblance of a conversation within the party for the rest of us. and i think having dick cheney be the center focus of the conversation is not necessarily a good thing. because there are i think legitimate concerns within the gop about the course that it has been taking up until now. and if we are absolutely right about going into iraq why does it feel so absolutely wrong today?

and it is not just because of anything barack obama has done within exclusively his administration. what was the plan coming out of the bush administration for iraq? what would it look like? i know many of us asked that question then, and still asked that question of this president. and we're seeing the results of neither administration effectively being able to answer that question. >> e. j., in dick cheney's mind, it seems that the mission accomplished banner was unfurled at a perfectly fine moment. that the bush administration had done what they wanted to do, to say nothing of the point that michael steele brought up, that there was no exit strategy. the chutzpah of the cheneys to opine on iraq at all is noteworthy. the errors he has made with respect to iraq or self awareness or honor. i wonder why dick cheney is

doing this? do you think it is as peter suggests in his book "days of fire" that cheney is worried that america is on the verge of apocalypse? islamist faith taking over. or is it that he is trying to burnish his legacy? >> well, he may be obsessed with the ca the caliphate, but i think he is always obsessed with the decision to go to iraq, which the majority of americans now think is a bad idea. and i think that whenever cheney speaks out today and bashes obama or anybody else, everybody should go back and look at the interview that tim russert did with dick cheney on this war. dick cheney under-estimated how long the war would last, how much it would cost, how many troops it would take. he said we would be welcomed as

liberators. and that they would get along just fine. it is really an extraordinary document and shows just how badly the bush administration miscalculated this decision. and i think that cheney should continue to be held accountable for that. and that interview, i think, is a very good list of what he needs to be held accountable for. >> michael steele, dick cheney has a co-author at op-ed and the weekly standard with his daughter, liz, one of the incredible things they write, it is undisputed and has been confirmed repeatedly in iraqi government documents captured after the invasion that saddam hussein had far-reaching relationships with the al-qaeda affiliates. a bipartisan group says basically the opposite. the report describes friendly contacts, but today we have seen no evidence that these or the

earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. i guess some part of it must be, you know, dick and liz cheney road show is presumably to help liz' political career? but do you think writing op-eds like that that contending reasons that we went into iraq will help her long-term prospects? >> well, i don't know if that will help her or not. i think liz has to explain that on her own and stand on her own. she was clearly part of the state apparatus at the time. and as her father, one of the architects of the war had their own agenda inside and outside of the white house. how that helps her political agenda remains to be seen. what is more problematic is your vision and ideas of what happened in the face of reality and the documents to the contrary. and i think e. j. hits it right. when you contrast on the eve of

the war how it played out over the last 11 years it is very hard to stand in the face of that and say that you're credible when talking about this. i know i have taken criticism on this point. others in the party have taken criticism on this point. but they have to understand they don't represent effectively where america is right now. have y and it is not so much about the war-weariness, but how should we prosecute wars, do we take a look at what the dog really is and see whether it is worth the fight. and that is where i think a lot of me people are right now. >> yeah, e. j., the chairman referred to the rand paul/reagan-off. and it is an incredibly -- if you can call it this a fruitful time for foreign policy ideas on the right insofar as there is a real debate. rick perry, and rand paul has

one article in politico, rick perry is dead wrong, taking the high road. each one relies on one man throughout their op-ed, and that is ronald reagan, rick perry mentions him nine times, rand paul eight times. where do you think this sort of heart of the gop is at this moment other than in ronald reagan's chest? >> well, first of all i think ronald reagan is to the conservative movement as scripture is to christians. everybody will quote reagan for their purposes. and there is a kind -- there was some ambiguity in this. yes, he was very tough on foreign policy, but he made a lot of choices that were not on the interventionist's side. and i was really taken by the strength of rand paul's

language. it almost sounded like he asked howard dean to ghost write that thing for him. let's intervene and consider the consequences later crowd. i think the party is badly split on this. i think the democrats are split, too, but not as radically as the republicans are between the much more interventionist wing, and the wing to some degree representing rick perry wing. and the non-interventionist wing quoting rand paul. >> and one of the things dick cheney seems to be doing in taking this decidedly hawkish stand is moving the goal post back to where it is his side of the field, if you will, because likely because there is this battle playing out in the pages of newspapers across this country. >> well, like the cheese, i think he stands a little bit alone there. >> don't you think the fact with

rick perry -- >> there are other little bits of cheese with him. >> cheese curds, maybe. >> yeah, cheese curds. but i think the party has been for quite sometime, alex, with the rand paul view of our involvement in these types of matters. and they want a much more discerning approach. they want one that is based on some outcomes that are you know, realistic. and i think people -- i think people will get a better appreciation of what this all means. so rand paul right now has the upper hand and the revision is going back and forth right now, just not flying with the gop. we'll see how it plays this fall, that is where we are right now. >> the cheese stands alone, that is my takeaway for this. thank you gentlemen, both for your time. after the break, lawmakers introduce a new bipartisan bill to combat the crisis of the border. never mind that congress already has a bipartisan bill to do just

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at universal studios hollywood. . >> with just over two weeks before congress take s flight fr its month-long recess, a new debate continues on the current border crisis. both are from texas calling it the humane act, or the helping unaccompanied minors and alleviating minor emergency act. but whether the bill achieves the goals remains unclear. for starters, the bill calls for changes to the 2008 trafficking

law that gives unaccompanied children from countries including central america the opportunity for an immigration hearing to protect them fr exploitation. the new bill would treat the minor children the same way and push for voluntary reunification. whether they're from guatemala, el salvador or any other country. but exactly how voluntary would that reunion be? considering that they have taken great risks to leave the violence in their countries. the bill also takes on the crisis in the courts and would push for unaccompanied migrant children to have a hearing before a judge in seven days and require a screening before health and human services and require a decision to determine if the child is eligible to remain in the u.s. 72 hours after the child makes his or her

claim. it is a tall order given the current backlog of more than 375,000 cases in immigration courts and an average wait time of 587 days. to that end, this bill would add 48 immigration judges to the emergency funding request. and it would require a plan and provide for additional resources if necessary for operational control of our southern border. additional resources, that sounds like money and fun. that sounds like something house republicans might call a blank check. at least if president obama were the one asking for it. joining me now is political editor and white house correspondent at the huffington post, and sam stein, author of "the fix." >> take -- >> you will get something on the

out-ro. >> no way, that was not in the deal i cut. >> chris, is anything going to get done on capitol hill? i think they're re-naming a post office this afternoon. honestly. do you think there is a chance that some kind of legislation is going to get through the senate and then also get through the house? >> i mean, the smart question is whether legislation will pass and get signed is no. bet on the no, alex. i'll say the one reason i think that may not be the case here is i think both sides recognize this is a problem that can't sort of -- i guess it could wait. but they do not want to wait on it. they want to try to address it. congress likes to act to try to say we understand this is a problem and we're going to do something babout it. i think you highlighted the issue, the additional funds worth 3.7 billion there$3.7 bil.

i think the republicans are resisting that given to president obama, it is a huge problem as you identify. that is going to take some amount of money. that is probably where the thing breaks down if it breaks down. >> yeah, sam, i have a hard time imagining that republicans after whipping up a frenzy over the crisis at our borders can say oh, but we're not doing anything about it. i mean, setting aside whether you believe in doing something for these children who are escaping terrible situations in their home countries there is enough sort of concern that the gop has whipped up over what is happening at our borders. i think it forces them into some kind of action which is different than the bipartisan senate immigration reform bill which is kind of generally just a good idea, although not perhaps specifically pants on fire urgent, according to the gop. >> yeah, no, i agree with that i think republicans recognize there is a political problem if they were to do nothing. i think that is the reason why you have people like john cornyn

latching on, because they're not just sitting back or not offering a solution. the question is, how far will they risk losing democrats in the house. what they're trying to do is attach reforms to this 2008 law, which allows for unaccompanied minors from the three central american companies to stay here under the department of health and human services. they want to amend to law while asking for additional resources primarily for border security. and i'm assuming there is going to be a lot of democrats, primarily if not a lot from the hispanic caucus who will say you know that is inhumane, despite the fancy acronym you attached to this bill. i happen to be optimistic that something will get done but there will be a lot of hurdles

along the way. >> yes, chris, sam points out wisely that this is a double edge sword. the white house has been pushing for the 2008 law, trafficking law passed under george bush. it would make their lives easier dealing with the issue. this is the guy who has been called the deporter-in-chief. martin o'malley has come out saying let's not hurry, maybe this is not a good idea changing the law. >> this is something you see virtually with every person, in the second half of their term, and whether o'malley breaks with the president whether it is on the economy or something else. but yet he is not in an easy spot here, and yet the reality is what we've seen is that house republicans -- this group of house republicans are not going to typically just sign off on billions more in spending without getting something that

they believe is a priority. so this is not an easy negotiation for a president who frankly -- let's be honest, not like he ever had a warm relationship with congress. but after the "so sue me" remark and the lawsuit, it seems to me we are at close to the bottom of the relationship, if not at it. >> and sam, i wonder if you know anything about this. the figure that was bandied about before the request was $2 billion. the $4 billion is -- any amount -- five dollars would have seemed high to house republicans, right? but why not manage expectations if you're in the white house, why not do the numbers so that when they come out is not twice when everybody is expecting? >> well, it could be because had they go back to the $7.2 billion, they end up close to what they initiatilly wanted an could compromise. that could be a negotiation on

their part. i don't know any inside information on it but it would not strike me as implausible as a theory. but the question that strikes me, what are the details on the proposal? if all the money is going to having operations on the border, a very tough to define term a lot of people in the president's own party are going to say this is silly. we need to actually treat the people who are here and figure out what to do with them. we want just put money to ending operational control without fixing the immigration system. so the money situation is just one component. there are a lot of other details that need to be hammered out. >> hey, chris, before we let you go, john mccain, does the white house have a partner with john mccain doing this, given his track record, on the subject of immigration reform, and being a very, very loud voice on the crisis on the border? >> well, add to these things, we know from his history, john mccain likes to be in on the big deal that is happen in congress. now granted there have not been

many big deals lately, but he is somebody who likes to do that because of his profile, whether it is on sunday shows or as a former nominee. he brings some level of heft to it. i think the white house if they want to get something done probably smart to try to bring john mccain into the fold. but i would say i'm not convinced that john mccain being involved convinces a bunch of house republicans to do this. sam is right, what we may wind of seeing is one of these things where john boehner lets it come through the floor and a handful of republicans vote for it -- >> wait, you mean, break the hafta rule -- just kidding. >> happened before, could happen again. indeed, the unimpeachable, ever-wise, sam stein. >> keep it going. >> indubitble, did i already say it? the amazing, always handsome sam

stein. guys, thank you. >> that there is true. >> guys, thank you very much. coming up, attorney general eric holder just gave 7 billion reasons for banks to keep their business practices above the belt. the details on today's massive settlement coming up. ♪ during the cadillac summer's best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around $459 a month or purchase with 0% apr and make this the summer of style.

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. today, the justice department announced its latest victory in a series of score-settling deals with banks accused of selling toxic mortgage-backed securities. a massive $7 billion settlement with citigroup which includes a $4 billion cash penalty to the doj, and $2.5 billion in consumer relief for struggling homeowners. >> the penalty is appropriate given the strength of the evidence of the wrongdoing by city, the bank's misconduct was

egregious. citigroup was able to expand its market share and also to increase its profits. they did so at the expense of millions of ordinary americans and investors of all types. >> the $7 billion settlement was anything but preordained. the two sides started far apart, citigroup, offer, $360 million was met with the doj's counter offer of $12 billion. but the two faced off in the form of benghazi. yes, that benghazi. the "new york times" reported that the very day they announced the lawsuit led the federal prosecutors to conclude that the headlines would overshadow the citigroup case. the subsequent delay resulted in a deal, one priced at $7 billion. while the attorney general certainly showed bargaining skills here, no criminal charges

against the city employees were part of the agreement, although today it did not preclude them from making them in the future. as for the deal, the stock rose in a better than anticipated quarter. the bank made a $9.3 billion profit for the quarter. today's deal and the $13 billion agreement reached with j.p. morgan chase in november would appear to be evidence that the doj is finally taking big banks to task for their misconduct. >> city is not the first financial institution to be held accountable by this justice department and it certainly will not be the last. >> next in the doj's cross-hairs, goldman sachs, wells fargo and bank of america, whose lengthy, lengthy list of wrongdoings is expected to result in a much higher fine than that of j.p. morgan or citigroup. and righteous bully or

criminal bully? which one is either? steve kornacki discusses his new profile on the governor and much, much more, coming up next. (vo) get ready!

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as many questions as possible. asked at this weekend's national governor association's meeting whether he thinks the thousands of migrant children entering the country should be deported, chris christie responded i'm not going to get into all that. he added, that is washington's job to figure these things out. side note, being president is a thing that happens in washington. when asked about the affordable care act law, a law that recently brought the insurance levels down to its lowest level in recent years, chris christie says i think we all know that the health care law is not working. i think it is the positive way to be having this conversation, moving forward. the details of chris christie's plan for what we should be doing have yet to materialize. but christie's greatest non-answer came on the topic of same-sex marriage, something the governor opposes but declined to challenge in his state. christie's defense, when i know i have been defeated you don't bang your head against the wall

anymore and spend taxpayer money to do it. which begs the question, does chris christie actually know when he has been defeated and will he ever accept it? joining me now, the great steve kornacki, and brian burrell whose article is in "vanity fair fair.". >> steve, let me start with you on the governor's recent comments this weekend. it seems like he is once again, setting aside the scandal he is back in the old incredibly uncomfortable cat bird seat of having to thread the needle in being a blue state governor and having to get through the president if he indeed runs through the office. the host of questions, whether it is the marriage, or the affordable care act, christie wants to be against the democrats but is actually taking positions that are pretty

centrist. >> i think it is something where he is not willing to go, when the hobby lobby rule came out, he was not ready to address it. and he is running for re-election in a blue state, won by obama by 15 points. he would have to moderate himself by a margin, and he is right on some things, on her things he still seems to be mindful of being a blue state governor, he can't run for re-election in new jersey, it is a two-term limit. he can't run, he has run his last campaign in new jersey. so in a way i'm surprised he is not going harder after the right, right now -- >> but brian, you did -- it is an exhaustive piece and it is recommended reading especially if you're not as familiar with the in's and out's, of what i will call a saga. a very long story about chris

christie, the allegations, the swirl, are you surprised he is taking such a bullish and at times bullyish position on the controversy surrounding him? >> i think it is the only way he knows how to play ball. you can say a lot of things about the guy, we'll not say that he is stupid. but unfortunately like a lot of moderate republicans who run in the primaries you're obliged to say a lot of things to get reelected. his appeal in new jersey has always been he is the most new jersey of the new jersey governors we have had for a long time. that is really the big problem with the bridge scandal, was there is one thing you don't mess with people in new jersey, you don't mess with traffic. that is one of the reasons that it hurts so bad. >> let me ask you, paul fishman, the u.s. attorney, the time table has not been released. it is not clear when any of the

possible charges will be levied, if you will. but intentional charges include, obstruction of justice, securities fraud, state charges of falsifying business. things are going slow. we have an occasional drip, drip, occasional subpoenas, this piece of information. this could actually gather steam at the worst time for chris christie which is next year. >> there is a couple of different angles here and a couple of different investigations. you have the manhattan district attorney here in new york, the sec may be looking at this. the real risk for the federal standpoint is the attorney getting involved. the question is, can anybody he is talking to right now, whether it is david wildstein, bridget kelly, ask acan any of them be to say to the u.s. attorney that here is proof, that chris

christie, one issue he knew about it. the other issue is can you prove he knew about it before he says he knew about it? can anybody bring that about? in terms of specific charges when it comes to federal prosecution, generally where there is a will there is a way. but in terms of kind of exposure for christie, that is the exposure that has to come out. you're right, it is an opaque process, chris christie did not have this kind of an opaque office. there are weeks constantly, i know he benefitted. he used it for public gain. >> one wonders, and this has happened repeatedly for this, you detail this in your piece, brian. it is not just bridgegate, the investigation has brought closer national scrutiny. the port authority as the sort of cookie jar/sort of an office

for political favors is abundantly clear. you detailed that effectively when pataki nominated one for his office. the process of having sort of one guy or girl from new jersey in one position and one from new york in the other became cemented. but christie specifically sort of exacerbated the position of the port authority. >> nobody took it to the level that christie did, there is something like that 100 political appointees there. he has done an amazing job of getting money out of that place for you know, the use of new jersey taxpayers. there is a lot of new jersey taxpayer that s that don't mind fact he got a couple of billion out of there. >> yeah, without raising their taxes. >> it is unclear -- fuzzy.

>> and whether that is against the law. you quoted, given what we learned about the personality, it is inconceivable that he did this without making sure he didn't get browny points as governor. most of the points seem like speculation, there has to be something there as steve lays out but there is no conclusive evidence yet. did you assert there was more on the campaign than others? >> i think the take away right norfo not to believe that christie knew about this ahead of time but somehow he found out before the golden moment, which is somewhere before, december 5th, obviously wildstein has made the allegations he told him before the 11th, we just don't know. >> and in the meantime, chris

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emptied and the world cup is over. yesterday's final, the climax of a month-long journey seeing germany win over argentina, the perfect end to a tournament that is being hailed by many as the best cup ever. for u.s. viewers, the 2014 cup marked a turning point, a coming-out party for the american appreciation of the beautiful game and it showed in the ratings. just in, 26.5 million people tuned into sunday's final making it the most watched soccer game in u.s. history. i got chills saying that. joining me now to talk about the highs, the lows, and captain of the smash hit show, 30 rock. it is great to see you, given the fact this might be our last tango for four years. >> i know, it has been pretty great. >> and in your expert opinion, you don't have to agree with it,

was this one of the best world cups? >> yeah, this was one of the best, '94 was awesome because that was here and that was a great world cup, but i think it is even better. >> what made it awesome? i felt like one thing, it was in a time zone where we could all watch it. two, the games felt evenly matched. and three, i felt like central and south america really brought it in a way that was unexpected. >> yeah, i think having it in brazil just made it exciting, a lot of south american fans are so passionate. and the other thing is a lot of teams played more offensively. so many teams just play to tie, they play to win 1-0, and you saw a lot of those teams go out early. so it was the teams that chose offense and chose being positive that actually went through and that made it actually exciting. >> can we say it was the best

world cup when brazil suffered such a huge loss, and tears flowed in rio for days? are we allowed to say that? >> yeah, it was probably the d saddest day for brazil in recent memory. because you always think of brazil as the michael jordan for soccer. but you know, yeah, that is the way it goes. they're going to rebuild. this is going to force them to really step it up because they have been falling off for a little while now. and this year it call came to a head. so brazil is great. they're going to come back. >> well, now what surprised me and almost everything in soccer surprises me because i don't really watch that much soccer despite the expert knowledge this i gave out on the air ways. i won in in bracket. i called germany winning, there it is, the german flag, the rest of the ceremony. i didn't win the bracket but i did call it. many of the other teams that people expected to win or do

much, much better than they did were kicked out in the first round. >> yeah, well, obviously you have a great gambling career ahead of you and i'm happy for you. winners, no winners, you could call it. >> i could call myself a champion. >> obviously, you pick winners, that is a special talent not everybody has. >> germany, tell me, did the best team win in your opinion? expert opinion? >> yeah, overall probably they were very close with argentina. but i thought it was an excellent game. and either team could have won it. and germany won it. i'm glad they won it and it didn't go to penalty kicks so they actually won it on the field of play. but i hate seeing the germans win, i hate seeing them win, the team, you have to root against germany, you just kind of have to. >> and yet you readily admit the best team won. are we being too unfair to messi when we give him a hard time for

not score that goal? >> yeah, no, argentina was a little different this year, they're strong but not as strong on the defense. this world cup their defense was unbelievable and their offense was really not as strong as it should have been. it was a little bit of a one-man show up there. just didn't have as much dynamic as it should have been. >> before we let you go on this bitter sweet day, what is the greatest piece of evidence that you can offer in defense or in support of the notion that americans really love soccer in a different way these days? do you see anything -- >> they certainly have embraced it. it has become an event for people to go to and enjoy. and i think the media coverage of it was great. so people are actually learning about the game more and wanting to learn more about it. and then there is a lot of people who it is just kind of a new holiday for them. it is kind of like you dress up and go to halloween or dress up for this. it is kind of like hey, now, i'll dress up as a german fan

today. >> i celebrated by hanging a poster of clint dempsey on the inside of my closet. do we have a photo of him? because do we have it -- maybe not. well, he is in my mind. locked in my mind. there it is, it is coming up. there we go. that guy is a champ. that guy is a world champion. all right, the world champion, it is an epic, thank you for joining us on this odyssey, that is all for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow. good evening, americans, welcome to "the ed show" all the way live from new york. i'm michael dyson in for ed schultz, let's get to work. >> our borders are not secure no matter what they say. >> it is a border security issue. >> hey, secure the borders first. >> it is a crisis at hand. >> it is