♪ it's an incredibly i think complex and well-reasoned and eyewitness view to the history of those four years, and i think i speak for everybody when i say no one cares, they just want to know if you're running for president. >> good morning. it's wednesday, july 16. welcome to "morning joe." it's right in the middle of the summer, is that where we are? are we halfway through? >> don't say that. we're just starting it. >> it always surprises me when it's over. i like to pace myself.

>> only just begun. >> former communications director for george w. bush nicolle wallace, steve rattner, also a expert on fantastical summers and political writer for "the new york times," nicholas continue sorry. from washington senior political editor and white house correspondent for the "huffington post" sam stein along with willie, joe and me. we'll start with hillary clinton on "the daily show." former secretary of state hillary clinton took to "the daily show" to promote her new book. as often is the case for clinton, there was that one topic that dominated. take a look. >> i have a career aptitude test -- >> this is good. i'm ready. >> let me ask you, do you like commuting to work or do you like a home office? >> i've spent so many years commuting, i'd kind of prefer a home office.

that's where i wrote the book, on the third floor of our house. >> do you have a favorite shape for that home office? let's say, would you like that office -- would you like to have corners or not to have corners? >> you know, i think that the world is so complicated, the fewer corners you can have, the better. >> do you prefer to sit in traffic or cause it? >> you said i am not running for president, it all stops. do you xwree or disagree? >> i think a lot of people would lose their jobs if it auld stopped. >> it would stop for you. they'd move on to chris christie or whoever else. >> they might. i've been amazed at what a cottage industry it is. i kind of expect it would continue. so i'm not really paying a lot

of attention. >> just these talking heads, sitting around, picking out everything and making fun of it. >> all right, joe, do you remember during the campaign when you called hillary clinton your girlfriend. >> yes. >> i feel like that should have been her first rollout, "the daily show," for the book. >> i think she did really well. maybe it's the first spot she goes after "morning joe" after she puts a book out. she did really well. obviously a lot of questions persist. i thought, nicole, she was very relax relaxed. if you were running her political campaign like campaigns you ran in the past, you'd be pretty pleased with last night, wouldn't you? >> he gets a lot of credit, too. he managed to lighten up. he went straight to the heart. he didn't bore us with any passages that no one is ever going to read in this book. he went straight to the question everybody wants to talk about. she was ready for it, but she wasn't overly prepared for it.

i didn't feel like those were rehearsed answers. >> what did you think, willie? >> i thought she did really well. i didn't see the whole interview. that was her at her best. she was very relaxed, she was laughing. she has a pretty appealing laugh. i think the more difficult questions came earlier in the book tour. this would have been good about a month ago when she got mired in all the money talk. last night was a good night for her. >> though clinton has been coy, of course, about her intentions -- i don't think she has, but some say she has, ready for hillary. the super pac, last quarter raised nearly $2.5 million. on last night's show, clinton once again addressed comments that drew heavy criticism, the comments that she made about when leaving the white house

that she was dead broke. >> that was an inartful use of words obviously. we've been successful and i'm really grateful for that. i'm worried other people, younger people, are not going to have the same opportunities we did because even though we came from great circumstances in terms of our family loving us and bill had a much more difficult upbringing than i did, but still we believed that we could pretty much make our way up the ladder. now i think a lot of particularly young people don't believe that anymore. that bothers me a lot. >> so she's showing up on a comedy show, but nicole and steve, this is one area where she could have problems. she could attacked and not exactly have the best response. that would be, number one, her ability to raise lots of money and become out of touch and, number two, cozy ties with wall street. >> this is one pivot, and i think she's improved upon the

first one. the other pivot that she needs to learn how to make is the one that john kerry, john mccain and mitt romney all failed to make, which is to shed the discomfort and awkwardness about their wealth. it makes us uncomfortable about their wealth. until she can stand there and say this is who i am, i have been successful but i'm not running for president to hide anything about my personal went. i also am not running for president because of it, the pivot right off of it and talk about what she's going to do. we don't want to talk about it. >> we really don't. if you are going to talk about it, then don't be tortured about talking about it. that's one thing, we republicans have no problem with people getting rich. we admire people that have like the clinton stories that start from nowhere and get really rich. that reenforces what we believe about the american dream, that things like that still can

happen. there is a place called hope. steve rattner, democrats got barack obama re-elected by vilifying mitt romney for being rich. they made that calculation and john heilemann reported it in "time" magazine in may of 2012, that barack obama couldn't win, they had to make mitt romney lose. the only way to make him lose was to make him look like an out-of-touch rich guy. they were even bragging about it after the election. i read a column about it yesterday morning. it's tougher for rich democrats to do this in 2016. >> foolish consistency is a hob goblin of little minds. romney had two particular problems about being rich. one was the fact that he seemed out of touch, that he was not the kind of guy that you could ask what the price of hamburger was. >> which hillary seems out of touch on this book tour.

>> on the book tour, i agree. the second thing about romney were his taxes and all the way he found to get his tax rate down to those mid teens rates. i think that was the ugly part -- i certainly didn't begrudge romney the money he made. >> barack obama paid taxes in the teens as well, not to really be meddle some with facts, but barack obama paid 18%, 19% in taxes as well. >> i didn't think that was so. but if he did, it was because his income was low. romney had huge loopholes and gimmicks that he took advantage of, all legal, but all that expose what's wrong with our tax system. hillary has the issue of the speeches and how much she gets paid for them, the issues with the ties to wall street. i agree with nicole, she didn't handle those first set of answers artfully.

the better answer would be we worked hard, made a bunch of money, life has been good to us and now we intend to put it back by going into public service. >> ain't america great. mika, a lot of other news to get to. >> other political news that could have an impact on the midterms. reportedly coming out, democrats have been fund-raising and they've been outfund-raising their republican counterparts. "the new york times" reports that democrats running for senate raised more than their opponents in kentucky, north carolina, alaska, colorado and louisiana. it wasn't just the candidates. according to the times, the democrat campaign committee beat the republican one, has a $6 million cash advantage, willie. so democrats doing better than republicans. >> nick is here with us. take us inside some of these numbers. what's behind this big cash coming into the democratic party. >> incumbency is a big part of

it. we're seeing eye-popping numbers. it helps answer a question we've had for a couple months, with all this outside spending over the winter and spring just beat up the democrats so bad and make them spend so much money that when they got to the summer campaign season they would be out of gas. the answer is almost but not quite. they kept raising a lot of money, they have plenty on hand and are not winning in every race. they're basically even which means the battle for the senate is not going to come down to this outside spending. now that we go into the summer months, the outside spending will be less of a piece of the total pie when the candidates are spending their mon money. the important thing is the candidates get the best rate for the advertising, a lot more bang for the buck. >> you also write about mitch mcconnell and allison lungren grimes. she raised $4 million last quarter. mcconnell raking in money, too,

pulled up about $3 million. by comparison he raised $20 million at the end of the entire 2008 race. go back to lungren grimes, she's done extraordinarily well for a first-time candidate in a national race. >> everyone wants to beat mitch mcconnell on the left. he's the poster child for the senate republicans. out of state money on both sighs. it has a lot of money from out of state. both these candidates are going to have a ton of money backing them and in their own coffers. >> according to a maris poll, jean sheheen is hanging on to an 8% lead over scott brown. in another pivotal senate race, joanie ernest is surging,

turning iowa into a tight race, tied with bruce braley at 43%. in both states the president's approval doesn't break 4%. joe? >> the president's approval ratings in state after state after state over the past couple days, sam stein has been dismal. he's down in the 30s in the two states. new hampshire he's down low, iowa he's down low. dem crass doing pretty well, outperforming the president. in new hampshire, there aren't enough undecided voters as of mid july for scott brown to catch up. that's why they hold the election in november. but it's looking like an uphill race for scott brown in a big way. >> especially for scott brown who doesn't come in with limited name i.s. everyone knows who scott brown is. certainly i think the first case new hampshire voters got of him,

this was a new hampshire senator decamping to new hampshire for the purposes of winning a seat. he's got a lot of room to make up and not many people to convince because of his strong name i.d. i think the president is kind of a problem for democrats. obviously in state after state his approval rate is under water. yet these candidates continue to hold on. iowa is close. >> sam, let's talk about ron fornier. this morning he talked about in the column today what i was talking about yesterday, which is both of these political parties seem to have a race to the bottom. it's we're bad, but the other side is worse. president obama's approval ratings are low. normally historically that means big wins for the party out of power. but the republican approval ratings are also dismally low. >> yes, exactly. are we going to have an anomaly of an election year? it looks like it might be that way. in each senate race you're

having sort of separate races syphons off from the national climate. the immigration race, you have a president incredibly unpopular, who the public doesn't trust to handle the crisis but they don't trust republicans even more. you have lawmakers saying we need to be for something, can't just be againsted what the president is putting out there. that's the big dilemma. >> of course we have a bipartisan bill introduced by democrats in the house and senate. harry reid immediately killed it saying no, i'm not going to pass it. it does too much. so more of the same. >> front page of "the new york times," republican governor and potential 2016 hopeful chris christie heading to iowa to rub elbows and fundraise for governor terry bren stet. iowa is the first caucus state in the republicaning primary and a state christie would love to

carry if he did run. these days it seems wherever christie goes, controversy follows. this time christie is under fire from a conservative group taking aim at his judicial appointments in new jersey. the judicial crisis network says christie's selection record is liberal, and the group is reportedly spending $75,000 on online ads targeting iowans over the next few days. >> christie has had five openings on the new jersey supreme court, enough to build a new majority, but the court remains liberal. one christie appointee is a democrat, so liberal he was mentioned as a potential barack obama nominee to the u.s. supreme court. christie even endorsed the liberal supreme court justice sonia sotomayor. important issues like obamacare are at stake in our courts. the next president of the united states may get to a point as many as three u.s. supreme court nominees, a new majority.

call chris christie. tell him to fight for judges who respect to rule of law. >> joe, christie at this point, i guess how would you characterize his play in the presidential race? complicated? he raises a lot of money for the party? he's still a big draw. but there are questions. >> it's getting less complicated by the day. nicolle wallace, when chris christie got in trouble six months ago, people turned to jeb and said, boy, we need you to run. the longer jeb's name has been out there, the more questions has been raised. does he really want to do it? there are a lot of problems surrounding him. look at the poll numbers. upside down in a big way in a general election. jeb is looking at those numbers i'm sure. i haven't talked to him about it. you almost get a sense that chris christie and his camp are starting to say the smoke is

starting to clear, they've looked at jeb, he's either the establishment candidate or i am. this morning it's looking more like chris christie. if i'm chris christie, i'm absolutely thrilled that a nationwide conservative group thinks i actually could have the power to appoint supreme court justices as president of the united states. this guy is back in play, ahead in a lot of polls, very fascinating. >> those are the kind of ads you hope the group will run in ohio and michigan and florida during a general election. they make you a lot less scary to women who care about the issues decided by supreme court. let me say what got me in trouble two month ag grown when i said "new york times" reporters are from mars and republicans are from venus. nobody ever cared on venus about bridgegate. you actually hear on conservative radio that some people thought, well, you know,

someone who will stand up for himself and his party isn't the terrible thing. i'm not saying that what his administration did is excusable. i'm not saying it could ever been turned into a political asset. i'm just saying the way republican primary voters process what we largely described as bridgegate, a mega scandal in national politics, process was experienced by grassroots republicans in a completely different way, a way that we here on mars in the mainstream media could never understand. >> on venus, sam stein, the fact that "the new york times" went after chris christie so much actually made him less suspicious on the planet in which nicolle and i inhabit. >> a lot of "new york times" reporters nick can agree. >> i'm right here, guys. >> he can't see you because he's on venus. >> he's there, but he's not there. i think nicolle is not

completely wrong, but somewhat wrong. the reason i think that, these are sophisticated grassroots voters. they may not care whether or not chris christie ordered bridge lands closed or how we treated his opponents or whatnot. they do care about winning elections. they are very aware that everything he did in new jersey with respect to bridgegate can be turned into a very, very obvious efficient political ad against him. they are not going to vote for him in part because they don't think he's viable. >> that's the point. he didn't do anything in bridgegate. >> i think we're talking past each other. regardless of whether or not he did it, they are worried about a general election -- >> whether or not he did it is the whole point. there's no evidence that chris christie did anything when it came to the line closures. >> obviously the longer it goes, obviously, the better it looks for chris christie. he has democrats.

he's got certain newspapers that have been obsessing on this. and what nicole is explaining to people out there that may be shocked and stunned and deeply saddened and getting the cheetos out. >> do not bring cheetos into this. >> i'm doing it, sam stein! how she hates america, et cetera, et cetera. it's just a helpful explanation for those of you who live on mars about who actually has a better shot today of getting the republican nomination. steve rattner, there's a huge void in the republican party. that void is going to be filled by a republican establishment candidate. you know what? if this late date, and yes, it is a late date, that establishment candidate is probably going to be either jeb bush or chris christie. the money people are trying to figure out which way to go. a lot of those people that write checks are going to write them to chris christie the longer this goes and the longer the

democrats can't lay a glove on him. >> i agree with all that. i hope for the country's sake, even though i probably would not vote for him, that the republicans nominate a serious credible candidate. all i would say about the bridgegate and chris christie is, one, i don't think it actually matters whether he ordered the lane closures or didn't. it's the whole situation and everything that came out of it, jersey city, hoboken and the pulaski sky way. >> give me a break. >> hold on. he's got a lot of explaining to do within his own party about new jersey's financial situation. >> you're talking about a bridge and we're talking about the pulaski sky walk or whatever you're talking about. >> sky way. >> i guess you don't go to new jersey that much. >> the internal revenue service has destrid or if they haven't destroyed have done extraordinarily suspicious

thing. you can talk about tapping reporters' phones, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. are we to believe that democrats will say much ado about nothing on that, are concerned about the pulaski skywalk? no, we don't care. we don't care about a pulaski skywalk if you don't care about the internal revenue service targeting individual americans because of their political beliefs. willie geist, over to you. >> i think steve's point was that there are other problems that will flow including the state's finances if he pitches himself as a fiscal disciplinarian. let's go to our mars desk. nick is standing by from the planet of mars. nick, the front page of "the new york times" that mika highlighted, a piece by mike barbaro.

he says in 2000 interviews, most dismissed bridge gate as an unhealthy obsession of east coast democrats. christie's numbers are solid in places like iowa, 54% among republicans there. if it's not the meat and potatoes of what happened, is it really largely about his management style and do people in states like south carolina and new hampshire, do they care about this? >> i'm actually on venus or mars a little bit. i forget which. >> you're stratling. >> primary voters from the east river, hudson river, are not focused on it in the same way. here is the thing. only one state in the country with a moody's bond rating as band as new jersey right now. it's illinois. we have live investigations into the bridge scandal. if you get some indictments dropping on the door outside of senior administration officials, that's going to change this pretty fast and we're in the going to be laughing much about

know one pays attention to it. we're early in the process and a lot could happen to change all this. >> oh, gosh. wet blanket. >> spoken, spoken, spoken like a man from mars. >> nick, thank you very much. >> spoken like a truman from mars. nick, let me tell you, some of my favorite people on earth come from mars. i love "the new york times." >> really? >> exactly. >> mika, that was fun. that got out of hand quickly. what do we have coming up next? >> still ahead on "morning joe," i don't know him as president grant on "scandal." actor tommy gold win is stepping behind the camera. a first look at the divide. also "the new york times" got ahold of new documents concerning the big gm recall. it could be a troubling revelation for the embattled car company. we'll tell you what they found.

behind the scenes of the so-called arms race to create exotic e-cigarette flavors. is it a failed way to get young americans hooked on smoking? first, speaking on hooked, bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> you never called me a really nice guy? >> i think you're adorable and you put up with a lot. >> we both do, right? good morning everyone. yesterday we put up with the heavy rain insane around the new york city area. d.c. got drenched. at one point we had three-hour delays at all the airports in new york city, a three-hour delay to get over the george washington bridge because of the flooding. thankfully that's gone. in boston and hartford, there are still downpours. d.c. to philly and all the way in between, the cooler air is on the way. as far as rain goes this morning, we got drenched over the last hour from boston south to cape cod.

boston, you're okay for now. you will have rain about mid morning. if you're driving out of the mass pike, you'll get rain going out of the springfield area. as far as the flooding goes, the flood watch has been dropped for new york. still from hartford to providence to boston, portland, maine, you still have a shot of seeing tropical downpours and flooding on the roads. as far as the timing goes on this, by the time we get to noon today, hartford you're about done. 2:00, 3:00, you're about done. boston by about 6:00. forecast, lower humidity. beautiful afternoon for d.c. to philly. the rest of the country the big push of dry cool air from canada has made it to dallas and atlanta. enjoy a nice day with low humidity from the midwest to the great lakes all the way to the deep south. appreciate it because you know the summer humidity will be back sooner than later. washington, d.c. the humidity is dropping as we speak. the sun will be out this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe."

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let's take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times." there are new questions today about how much gm knew about the deadly crashes linked to defective ignition switches. in documents obtained through the freedom of information act, the times found gm officials avoided answering questions about the crashes in at least three cases, even though internal investigations gave conclusive answers. during the so-called death inquiries, representatives from the automaker said they had either not assessed the incidents, opted not to respond or invoked attorney-client privilege. at least 13 deaths over the past ten years have been linked to defective ignition switches in gm vehicles. joe? >> steve rattner, there's a

story specifically about saturn where a gentleman died in a rental car, and their engineers had warned about the defect recently before the crash. they claimed no know nothing about it. this looks terrible for general motors. >> it does. there's nothing good to be said about this. i would say two things. first, when i read that story today, it sounded like lawyers were very much in control of gm's answers to those inquiries for all the liability reasons. that's not an excuse, but that's my guess. the only other point i would make, all the incidents the times referenced today were pre 2009, before the bankruptcy, before the change in management. we all know gm's culture back then was terrible, about as bad a culture as i've ever seen in a company. >> from our parade of papers, the "los angeles times," a measure to split california into six separate states could be headed for the 2016 ballot.

the group, six californias needs 808,000 signatures by friday to get the measure before voters. it delivered the first batch yesterday and, pekts to submit the rest by the friday deadline. the effort to split up the golden state driven by millionaire investor tim draper who spent $2 million of his own dollars. critics say it would be devastating, potentially creating some of the poorest states in the nation. even if california voters approve the measure, it would still need the okay from congress and the president which i'm saying, joe, i'm thinking, that's going to be a hard sell. >> maybe start with two californias and go from there. u.s.a. today, former enemies zap and ibm are joining forces to create mobile business apps to use on ipads and iphones. they're working together to develop more than 100 business software programs that will be compatible with apple's

operating system. ibm is going to be selling the apps and other apple products to business partners. the move will be expanding apple's consumer base and marks the first joint venture partnership in years. >> "the new york times," concerns mounting from policymakers over the rapid growth of e-cigarette flavors. officials say up to 250 new flavor varieties are introduced each month with 7,000 flavors currently on the market. cigarette flavors were outlawed in 2009 for fears it would attract children to smoke. but e cigarettes remain unregulated and by pass that law. a senate committee says amount of flavors available makes the product appealing to children and teens and are pushing for fda relationship. >> willie and i will tell you david beckham's favorite flavor, wild cherry. marvel comics announced that

thor will now be known as the goddess of thunder. i don't like where this is going. in upcoming issues, the comic, due out in october, thor will be known -- the publisher noted the change is not temporary and she, yes, my friends, she is now the one and only thor. >> wait. was she a he? is that the story? >> he is a she now. >> it's transgender? >> i don't know. i don't know what exactly is going on in these comic books. doesn't archie get assassinated today? >> archie meets a really violent end. >> saving a gay friend who is a senator and gets shot at because of gun control. >> let's end this really. >> blah, blah, blah. i'm dracula. come on willie, this is

ridiculous. >> i need to read through the narrative on thor, how he gets to become a thoress. >> a very heavy endowed thoress. >> just go to the internet. it will explain it. coming up, derek jeter's big night in his final all-star game. highlights from the big game. did the pitcher adam wainwright groove one to the yankee captain to give him a hit in that at-bat. "morning joe" sports is next.

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we begin with the major league baseball all-star game in minneapolis. it was all about yankee captain derek jeter, his final mid summer classic. he told his american league teammates before the game to cherish the experience. >> it's an honor, a privilege to be here. to the guys, younger guys getting an opportunity to come to their first, enjoy it, because i can tell you firsthand that this is a fun experience, you should share it with your families, friends, remember it. you don't know how many of these you'll get an opportunity to play in. more importantly, remember every time you put your uniform on. trust me, it goes quickly. >> his 14th all-star game last night. bottom of the first, no score.

jeter at the plate facing adam wainwright. he lines one into right field, a classic jeter swing, starts the night with a double. then mike trout gets a hold of one, deep right field, off the wall. jeter scores on the rbi triple. 1-0 a.l. there. after robinson cano strikeout, cabrera jacks one to left. american league up 3-0 at that point. after that inning, national league starter adam wainwright told reporters he threw jeter a couple easy pitches saying, quote, i would give him a couple pipe shots, he deserved it. i might have given him a double or i might have changed my mind. he later said he was joking when he made those comments. >> sometimes my humor gets taken the wrong way. i feel terrible about this. if anyone has taken any credit away from what derek jeter has

done tonight or off me, it was missaid. i hope people realize i'm not intentionally giving up hits out. there i know this game means something. >> it was a 90-mile-an-hour cutter. jeter went 2 for 2 before leaving the game dramatically in fourth inning. came out, got his curtain call, shook his hand with everybody in the american league dugout. came out one final time. as the game went on in fifth, trout at bat, chops one down the third baseline, just fair, squeaking by. trout gets the mvp honors. american league wins 5-3. victory earns the american league home-field advantage in the world series. as much as the night was about derek jeter's farewell, a lot of people surprised there was no mention of the late tony gwynn in last night's broadcast. a lot of fans were upset about that. it's unclear if it's a swipe at major league baseball. the padres tweeted this gwynn

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the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. where memories will be forged into the sand. and then hung on a wall for years to come. get out there, with over 50,000 hotels at $150 dollars or less. expedia. find yours. gorgeous shot out of west virginia which is our state of play this morning at 45 past the hour. senator jay rockefeller of west virginia is retiring. that's giving republicans daylight to pick up seat in a once solidly democratic state.

as nbc news political reporter kasie hunt tells us, some are already chalking it up as a win as the gop tries to take fwak senate. ♪ >> i'm here today because natalie tenant says wall street doesn't come first, our families here in west virginia come first. >> elizabeth warren may not be the first person who comes to mind when you think of west virginia, but hundreds of people came to see warren campaign for democratic senate candidate natalie tennant. >> i will not balance our budget on the backs of hard working west virginians when wall street gets a free pass. >> inviting warren was a risk but she needs a boost. her fund-raising has lagged and outside groups have all but

written her off. she was looking to capitalize on warren's anti wall street message but had to accept warren's stance on coal. warren has called it dirty. >> do you think senator warren represents west virginia values? >> i think when you hear her story, it's so similar to a west virginia story. >> would you want president obama to come here and campaign with you? >> if president obama came to west virginia he would have a lot of explaining to do, a lot of explaining to do to our coal min minors. >> that explains why she has such a tough battle against shelly more capito. >> if you want to stop the war on coal, you need to have shelly come. >> reporter: his budget proposal makes dramatic changes to federal programs. >> you don't think congressman ryan's budget is too extreme for the country? >> i would say no.

i would say it puts us on a pathway to discussion. >> reporter: unlike many other republicans running this year, capito says she wants to fix obamacare. she supports the medicaid expansion that's a major component of the president's law. >> there are more low income west virginians. we need to find a way to make that work. >> reporter: she's leading in polls and fund-raising. combine that with the president's low approval numbers, many democrats see this as a seat that's already gone. >> it's a feeling we have here that the president doesn't really care, that there are winners and losers and we're being picked on the losing side. >> joining us nbc news political reporter kasie hunt along with nicolle wallace, willie, joe and me. joe, i tell you, west virginia is looking exciting. nicolle is telling me elizabeth warren does nothing in that state. >> not nothing. no, no. that's not what i said.

elizabeth warren helps generate money from l.a. and new york which she desperately needs if she wants to go toe to toe to capito. >> we've been talking about it this morning, the president's low approval ratings, in state after state where the races are going to be run, we knew the senate races were going to be run in red state territory six months ago. we're seeing the numbers, the president in the 30s in new hampshire and iowa, the two maris polls we talked about today, your piece has him in the 20s, is that one of the reasons why you say some democratic outsiders have already counted her out of this race? >> without question. the president is clearly shifted the terrain dramatically in west virginia. if you think about senator joe manchin was able to pull that out. part of that is his own legacy in the state. part of it was president obama hadn't been in office all that long. i think the other piece of this is the map is just so big right now for democrats that, if you

think about the other six incumbent democrats that they have to fight for, places where republicans are forcing them to spend money, places like new hampshire, for example, with scott brown, there isn't capital in the bank left over for somebody like natalie tennant in a state like west virginia. >> willie, earlier you have senator bag gich from alaska promising to be a thorn in temperature's posterior. he used another word. now you have a democratic candidate says if barack obama came, he would have a lot of explaining to do. normally that's bad for the party in power. republicans in a lot of these states aren't able to use that for an advantage because their numbers are so low. >> they haven't created that separation yet, especially in west virginia where the margin should be bigger. ten nant was asked about obamacare. she's kind of danced around it. do i have that right? >> i spoke to her late bit on

that subject. she says i wasn't there. if i had been part of the debate, i maybe could have changed the debate. that's not an uncommon position. the one thing that's interesting on this race on health care, capito and ten nant are not that far apart. it's capito with the interesting position on the health care law. she recognizes a history of the state, why it's been democratic for so long, how important many of those programs are. she's very supportive of the medicaid expansion. that's unusual for a republican candidate. >> kasie, thank you. do you know where you're going next? >> we don't yet. >> that's the story of your life. up neblt, we dig in deerp on the latest edition of the marvel comics. what the heck is going on here. >> we're digging in deeper? >> yes. i don't know how you can do that. >> i'm not dumb, but i don't

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certainly if we look at the changing complex of this cabinet compared to the last one, the one yesterday, what we can see is that -- >> adam, do you want to talk a pause? >> no. a swallowed a fly that's all right. >> it wasn't a woman. >> exactly. >> i hate it when that happens. i don't want to see that. >> did he actually swallow a fly. >> we're putting it in slow mo so you can see it but let's not. >> i didn't see a fly. >> i listen to this during my long drive down, during the thunder and lightning storms. the brits describe the reshuf e reshuffling in cameron's cabinet, promoted six women. they came out and said it, we had to replace the pale stale

males. i like that. >> the pale stale male. >> what's next, willie. >> they called them all posh blokes. speaking of replacing men. marvel says thor is no longer to able, quote, wield the mighty hammer. a female will emerge to take over for him. it's happened. the time has come. thor has previously taken the form of an alien space horse and also magically transformed into a frog by his brother. the point of that was that thor is now a woman. he has not become a woman. the thor you know and love is no longer worthy of the hammer. he's stepping aside. he's no longer a magical guy. now thor is a woman. still called thor, same name, the whole deal. >> it's happening everywhere. >> there you go. >> i think the children will be confused by that. >> i think they'll be okay.

i think the kids are going to be all right. >> i think they're appealing to little boys. coming up at the top of the hour -- it's ridiculous. >> what about little girls? >> let's show a picture of thor, the new and improved thor and you tell me what little girl wouldn't identify with -- never mind. >> okay. it's just stupid. >> i'm more worried about archie going down in a hale of bullets. >> why is archie getting slaughtered. >> why? >> why, why, why? >> this is useless. i think we should stop. let's move on. hillary clinton taking her book tour to "the daily show" is cornered about corners? we'll explain. speculation continues about chris christie as he flies off to iowa. a conservative group targeting the new jersey governor as a liberal. perhaps the only report on highway safety that will

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in his 14th and final all-star game, the captain for the new york yankees, derek jeter. an american icon saying good-bye. this was hamas's ceasefire proposal. cheers today as a young crowd watched hamas rockets launch. hopes for a ceasefire dashed. >> as usual in this decades-long

conflict, both sides blame each other for the failure of the ceasefire. ♪ >> these kids could be heading to your towns. >> the sheriff's department recently got word 40 to 50 migrant children could soon be staying here. >> there are major concerns from a public safety perspective about that. >> the border patrol told you there was a threat of ebola at the border, at the mexico-u.s. border. >> they did say that. >> two lawmakers issued a bill aimed at stopping central americans from sending their children to the u.s. border. >> this is roadmap toward a solution. if somebody has a better idea, we're willing to look at it. >> everyone here, the border is secure. >> i think i speak for everybody when i say no one cares, they want to know if you're running for president. it sounds like you've declared for president. welcome back to "morning

joe," nicolle wallace and sam stein. and joining us from the national atlantic jeffrey goldberg. from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd along with nicolle, willie, joe and me. good morning, chuck. >> good morning. >> mika, we had harry reid saying the border is secure. yesterday we had a democrat and republican from texas come here on "morning joe" and talk about a bipartisan bill that they had. it sounded like a good idea. harry reid looked so silly saying the border is secure. we have a humanitarian crisis on the border. democrats are comparing it to katrina. i don't know if that's hyperbole, overblown or not. i'm sorry, i will see any criticisms on the house republican leadership, and i will raise them harry reid.

i think history will sort it out that both sides have done a dismal job. that's why people hate washington, d.c. i want to go over with chuck todd really quickly and then we'll get into the news. chuck todd, ron fornier has a must-read column this morning. the title is my party doesn't suck as much as yours. all you have to do is look at the numbers we've shown on this show over the past few days and the numbers you've shown on "the daily rundown" that you showed yesterday and today, barack obama's approval ratings in colorado and other swing states in the 40s, in the 30s today in new hampshire and iowa, in the 20s in west virginia, and those are dismal, sad, depressing numbers, unless you compare them to republicans' approval ratings in those same states which range between 19 and 21%. in all of those states where barack obama averages 37%, 38%

which is dismal, should predict failure for his party in power, republicans in the same states have approval rating of 19% to 21%. dismal, dismal, dismal. >> it is. that's why i think the fall is so hard to figure out because, if you just look at each party in isolation, you think, oh, the other party is in great shape, but there is no sea saw effect here at all. you know what? the public basically believed the rhetoric of the democrats in '06 and '08 when they said, you know what, blame the republicans, they were in charge, fire them. in 2010 the voters said, all right, we'll believe you republicans. we'll blame the democrats. we'll blame obama. we'll fire them. they see none of it has really worked for them. they've done all this change. they voted out incumbents. they've thrown people out of office over the last six years and what has it got them? they don't feel very good about the country. don't feel like their economic situation is any better. how does that play itself out this fall, right? i think a bunch of people aren't

going to vote and those that do i think will pull the lever for third party or protest-type candidates. then we're going to have this race to the bottom base selection. >> good god, a race to the bottom. to add to this conversation, a look at the battleground polls. according to a new nbc news maris poll scott brown may have an uphill climb. incouple dent democrat jean shaheen is hanging on to an eight-point lead. in another pivotal race, republican candidate joni ernst is surging turning iowa into a tight race, tied with bruce braley at 43%. in colorado democratic senator mark udall is holding on to a seven-point lead over cory gardner. in michigan, just six points separate congressman gary peters and republican terry lynn land. in colorado and michigan, the

president's approval rating is just 40%. in iowa and new hampshire it's even lower, but republicans fair even worse. the republicans don't break 21% approval in any of the four states polled by nbc. joe, it's sort of hard -- chuck is calling it a race to the bottom? >> right. >> i feel like i'm not sure -- >> you guys need to change your breakfast cereal. elections are still a choice. i think this is always the case when you head into a midterm. each party's base is more animated than the general electorate at large. >> but nicolle it's usually a zero sum game. as the republican parties numbers go down in 2006, the democratic party numbers go up. as the democratic numbers go down in 2010, the republican party numbers go up in 2010. i think it's the republican party that needs to change its breakfast cereal.

we have a great opportunity, a great opportunity to take over the senate, a great opportunity to take over the white house in 2016, and yet, if you ask working class americans who are not pragmatic what the republican party stands for, what will they tell you? they could tell you in 2006 they were anti-bush, they were an thai iraq. they were going to get us out of iraq, turn the economy around, fight wall street. be they did all that or not, what does a republican party stand for so they can take advantage of this extraordinary opportunity that barack obama keeps trying to hand them. >> listen, i agree with you. there is no national republican party that sets any sort of example for republicans running in gubernatorial races or at the local level. it's -- i think failing downward and looking at this as though there are no opportunities for republicans running in these states is a little too grim. i think the opportunity that

republicans have is to display one simple trait above ideology, above being dogmatic and that is competence. to display any simple examples of competent administration of a state program, of a state -- that's the single opportunity for republicans. i think the border crisis has people really, more than anything else going on right now, looking at both parties. this is a humanitarian crisis first and foremost. these are children. i think everyone shear a parent. i can't imagine being away from my parent for one night. these are mothers and fathers putting babies on buses for harrowing journeys. we're having an inane, as nine debate in this country. >> it's unbelievable. willie, the borders are broken, the va doesn't work, the irs is in crisis, the national security agency has done things that scare -- you can go down the list of all these bureaucracies that seem broken or are in

scandal or haven't worked, this should be an opportunity for the republican party. it does come down at the end of the day to competence. right now americans don't trust either party. >> they don't have reason to. we're about two weeks away from the august recess. does anyone at this table believe something meaningful will happen? >> jeffrey does. come on. i want something positive. >> come on, mr. sunshine. >> thank you, joe. i've come to bring a ray of light to this very dismal discussion. >> what is the way forward? >> i'm actually thinking about what breakfast cereal makes you more optimistic. >> there are some with more chemicals, more sugar. >> lucky charms. we're the country that invented putting marshmallows in cereal. >> coke co-crisps. >> nothing is going to happen in this do-nothing congress. >> we mentioned 2016, republican

governor, potential republican hopeful chris christie, fund-raising for terry branstad. a state christie would love to carry if he did, in fact run. these days it seems wherever he goes, controversy follows. this time governor christie is under fire from a conservative group taking aim at his judicial appointments in new jersey. the judicial crisis network says christie's selection record is liberal. the group reportedly spending $75,000 on online ads targeting iowans over the next six days. >> christie has had five openings on the new jersey supreme court, enough to build a new majority, but the court remains liberal. one christie appointee, the chief justice is a democrat, so liberal he was mentioned as a potential barack obama nominee to the u.s. supreme court. christie even endorsed obama's liberal supreme court justice sonia sotomayor. important issues like obamacare

are at stake in our courts. the next president of the united states may get to appoint as many as three u.s. supreme court nominees, a new majority. call chris christie, tell him to fight for judges who respect the rule of law. >> jeff, that ad is playing in iowa while governor christie is there this week. christie is headed to new hampshire at the end of the month. it certainly feels like he thinks the smoke has cleared for him. >> if i were chris christie this morning i would be pleased as punch that people were spending money to attack my potential presidential candidacy. remember three or four months ago he was dead in the water. this is a great sign that people far to his right are fearing his resurgence. that said, this is obviously a huge problem for any moderate republican, moderate conservative republican running. he's got to get over these -- past these kind of groups. if he does, this kind of thing could help him in a general.

>> obviously could help him in a general. let's go to chuck and sam. guys, i was saying last hour this is very good for chris christie. chuck, chris christie the excited he's being attacked by groups like this because that means he's relevant again. anybody that knows iowa politics, governor branstad knows his state better than anybody in his state. he would not have chris christie there if he didn't think he would help him in iowa. that in and of itself is very telling. he wouldn't have gotten this invite in february or march, but he's certainly getting it in july. >> i think the reminder of why is branstad bringing in christie now, he's still going to be more helpful in a general election than he would be in a primary. i think that type of attack on christie, this was sort of the traditional reason why a lot of people were skeptical that christie could get a presidential bid off the ground because of issues that he would

have on the right. i tell you, they've been nagging him about these judicial appointments. this is not something new. conservative groups have been hitting him for five years on this issue of judicial appointments in new jersey. the conservative electorate of iowa will get more animated on this, social issues play bigger and stronger in the iowa caucus electorate than other states. this will be an interestinger lir hurdle for him, assuming all the other stuff is behind him. by the way, nicolle, the answer is cocoa krispies. it turns the milk chocolate. >> he says that week he knows. >> it changes the flavor of milk. it makes you happier. >> now we'll go to sam stein as he writes down that it is cocoa krispi krispies. >> he already hat his this morning. >> sam, last hour we heard from steve rattner that all the scandals that were going on in

new jersey would help chris christie perhaps in primaries, but would hurt him in the general election. chuck just said what's the case which is that actually the opposite is true. chris christie is more of a help to terry branstad in a general election than he might be in a very conservative primary. i think that also is a really good sign for chris christie moving forward, that branstad wants him to go there as we move closer to a general election. >> i think we're trying to divide a line here. but there's obviously the element that chris christie is a political celebrity. he's a dynamic figure. i don't think any of the controversy in his past has changed the fact that he's a dynamic figure. in fact, it's enhanced it. he's a prolific fund-raiser. i know talking to republican operatives he can bring in more money for them in these events than anyone else save perhaps mid romney.

republicans want him to come in. they like having him there. i don't know hoye that affects his potential 2016 candidacy. nicolle wallace was just talking about how the country wants competence right now from a republican candidate. i just still can't figure out how someone who allowed stuff like this to percolate in his own administration is at the highest level, talking with respect to the bridge scandal, how someone who has that and has the problem with the moody's rating, how someone can say, that's the competent candidate. maybe nicolle can explain that to me. >> i'll add cookie crisp to the mix. let me take on this question about governor christie's competence. part of believing that your leader is a competent leader is having a leader that will articulate in ways that are direct and clear exactly what they're doing. i think part of the disappointment among democrats are president obama, and you

have a piece out in "the atlantic" on middle east policy. the vagaries of this president's leadership are as much from the lack of clarity with which he governs as they are anything else. one thing chris christie has going for him is exquisite clarity. he communicates in ways that everyone understands. everyone knows where he stands on issues. he actually has run the state. he formed bipartisan allegiances. everyone running, especially in the republican primary would have a burden to care. his would be explaining what went down with bridge gate. i'm not saying it's a scandal not worthy of investigation. that investigation has been going on for many months and has not tied chris christie to it. >> i agree with you about obama. part of the reason the numbers have dipped is he's jumped between crises without any cohesive explanation about his world view. i don't think that chris christie is the straight shooter that everyone has painted him out to be considering the various explanations that he's

had about bridgegate which is essentially a lot of stuff happened and he didn't know about it. i don't think that's a clear or coherent explanation for what transpired. but the voters will decide obviously. >> okay. jeffrey goldberg, thank you very much. chuck todd, we'll be watching "the daily rundown" at 9:00 eastern. still ahead, his songs recorded by some of the biggest names in music. john high at joins us later this hour. a new report on the dangers of teenage drivers. up next, is the economic recovery real or and illusion created by wall street? we'll take a closer look at where the country is today and what that means for america's future generations. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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♪ it's 22 past the hour. joining us on the set, columnist and business and financial editor for "the new york times" gretchen morgan sen. we wanted to take a look at a few different areas of the economy. i feel we might be getting some conflicting messages, and some retreads of problems we've seen in the past, but maybe to get a better idea as to where the country is today. unemployment numbers. we'll start there. we had the latest numbers come out that the unemployment rate had fallen to about 6.1%. so you're seeing drops. i guess it looks like good news, but is it? what's the reality with this economy as it pertains to employment? >> the thing you don't know is how many people have gotten so discouraged that they've stopped looking for work. that's really the crucial thing here. didn't we have news yesterday about microsoft laying people off. it is in the sooift geist.

we haven't recovered. >> part-time employment, wanls, different things that play into it. just because people are employed, it doesn't mean the same way they were in years past. >> a lot of underemployment, people who could be doing something much more lucrative are not. i think it's a big, big problem, a big area. >> you alluded, mika, to the wage problem which i think is at least as big a problem. real wanls haven't gone up for five years, meaning adjusted for inflation. even the people who have jobs, people who are fully employed, their purchasing power hasn't gone up in five years. when you want to talk about why is the country unhappy, why is it discouraged, why is it depressed -- >> on the high end are wages going up? >> they are going up. >> gretchen, that monthly jobs number has become a political issue. >> absolutely. >> when the number comes out, one says we've added 288,000 jobs. the other side look at the

people who have stopped looking, look at the people who are part time or unemployed. what's the real picture in this country right now? >> i think it's a better number. certainly it's going down, going in the right direction. we just don't have companies hiring. we just don't have good jobs that people can find. >> let's look now then at the stock market as a nice little contrast here. on monday the dow surpassed the 17,000 marks, breaking the previous intraday trading record. it's news like this shows the economy is growing or not or just for some people. steve, take it to gretchen. >> i think gretchen and i probably agree on this. what's basically happening is corporate profits are very strong and that's part of why wages are depressed. companies are able to pay people less or at least not more, so their profits are high. so the stock market is high. so to your last point, mika, you o co-v more inequality. you people who own stocks doing really well and people who don't

not as well, don't you think? >> unless people are investing. the numbers are smaller. >> that's absolutely right. you have people in the 401(k), you a broad range of people investing in the stock market. for the most part people benefiting from this are at the very high end. it's unfortunate we have that kind of disparity when you do have such a big upswing. >> gretchen, the question is are we looking possibly at another bubble? >> definitely. some of these are crazy. >> any time you look at pets.com and say, okay, they've lost $8 zillion but at 457. this may be an economy where the rich are getting rich and the poor getting poorer, but the last 12 years shows that we eracing towards another popped bubble. >> certainly. even the fed yesterday came out with a report about excessive stock prices in certain areas. the fed is not usually a leading indicator on bubbles.

i think, yeah, there is definitely a lot out there that's what we would call irrationally exuberant to use alan greenspan's phrase. let's move on to the u.s. housing market. some indications that the sector of the economy is starting to slow a little bit. is this cause for concern in regard to the overall economy. u.s. housing starts fell 6.5% in may. >> first, there's always going to be some fluctuations month to month. housing has had a good run, better than what most people expected. both in terms of housing starts and housing prices which in most prices are well up from their lows. housing has been a big contributor actually to this economic recovery after having caused the recession. i don't worry too much about housing yet. i don't think that's the biggest thing i would be worrying about. but the quick recovery in housing does seem to be slowing a bit. >> you recently wrote, and this is actually -- i sent this in, a story about corporations or overseas profits, corporate

inversions. >> well, inversions are companies where they go overseas to be able to shelter their earnings. >> and you in the article i picked up said the country's top 1,000 companies reported $2.1 trillion in such earnings last year. is there any chance even some of those profits are brought home soon, any effort to make it easier for companies to bring home those profits and reinvest and rebase themselves and pay taxes here in the united states of america? >> i think what those companies want is a tax holiday, and so whether or not that happens is a political question, you guys are way better at that than i am. >> what would be the problem with that, steve? >> the short answer is that's not going to happen. >> why? >> they're in the going to bring their money home and pay taxes on it. congress isn't going to vote anything different than that, and that's not the biggest problem. the biggest problem is that companies are finding more and more ways to evade u.s. taxes. there was an interesting column by gretchen's colleague andrew sorkin in the times, joe

manchin, senator from west virginia's daughter is ceo of a company called miland, merging with a european company and moving its tax base out of the u.s. to the netherlands. that's the kind of problems with inversions that are costing the treasury a huge amount of money. >> why isn't going to change? why can't we lower the corporate tax rate here, repatriate, agree. >> the obama administration has proposed to stop this practice. congress won't do anything. >> what about lowering the corporate tax rate, would that help? >> they're always going to complain about it unless it goes down to zero honestly. for many of these companies, it is close to zero. i don't know what the ge rate is, it's not 35%, not even close. they already have a lot of ways to reduce their taxes. but the last time we had a tax holiday, a lot of money came back, so that's what they're hoping for again. >> okay. gretchen morgan son, thank you

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painted this horrible yellow color and crashed it. i had to share with car with my brother. >> mazda 626, 1989, five-speed. it was hot. >> i do not want to see a picture of that. i can see that. stop. okay. so now the insurance institute for highway safety is compiling a list of recommended used cars. it could be a lifesaver for teenage drivers. nbc's tom costello joins us with more on this. >> mine was a 1974 station wagon, it was blue and it was a chick magnet. i looked so good. >> i bet. >> did your parents buy you a new car when you were a teen, was it a clunker or good solid car? >> it turns out teens killed in car crashes are more likely to be driving smaller older cars that don't provide the best protection in crashes. >> it's a rite of passage for millions of teenagers every year, first the permit, license and the new wheels. research suggests teenagers are

far too often driving cars that simply aren't safe enough. in a new report the insurance institute for highway safety warns parents they could be sacrificing safety for affordability. the study finds 28% of parents buy mini cars or small cars that often don't offer good crash protection. more than half of the vehicles bought for teens were 2006 or older, lacking the latest safety technology. even more, two-thirds of family hand-me-downs were 2006 or older. what should parents of teen drivers be looking for? experts say bigger and heavier is safer. stay away from high horsepower engines and electronic stability control is critical. >> it's compared to seat beltses in terms of the reduction in risk. teens should not be driving a vehicle without electronic stability control. it's a must. >> reporter: because teens are already at risk, the insurance institute says it's worth paying a little more. recommends two tiers of affordable vehicles, first, those under $20,000. large cars could include the

buick regal, 2011 or later. mid size could include the honda accord: among the cars under $10,000, large cars like the acura rl, mazda 6, suvs like the ford escape and minivans including the kia sedona. another challenge, making sure the car hasn't been involved in a major safety recall. amber rose was the first death associated with the chevy cobalt and the subsequent ignition switch recall. her air bags failed to deploy. >> i miss her very, very much. there's nothing i wouldn't give to have her back even if it was just for a day. >> reporter: the advice, check car fax and the federal registry to make sure any used car you're buying has not been involved in an accident or recall. >> we would urge parents to think about it and try to spend

more. >> reporter: typically insurance goes up by 79%. teenage boys more expensive than girls. the premium increase, the highest for 16-year-olds up 96%. >> oh, my gosh. tom costello, thank you very much. useful for parents. up next, how fourteen age boys took on and took down students from the engineering power houfsz at m.i.t. in a robotics competition. their great underdog story is next on "morning joe."

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arizona, decided to build an underwater robot just for the hell of it. they took their robot and headed west to a sophisticated underwater robotics competition, up against the likes of m.i.t. >> when we arrived at the competition, i was pretty nervous. >> the other robots were like pieces of underwater jewelry. >> we looked like the carnival had arrived. >> that was a look at the new -- i wanted it to go on. >> me, too. >> under water dreams is about fourteen age boys who built an underwater robot from home depot parts going up against engineering powerhouse m.i.t. here with us the film's writer and director, mary mazio. first, she showed her guns to the president. >> one of my favorite meeting the president stories ever. >> you just happen to be an

olympic athlete. >> arms, is that what -- >> you got a pair of guns. >> clerk that out. >> no, not really. not like yours. anyhow -- you're an olympic athlete. >> i was back in the day. >> you had no line. >> my husband said if you meet the president, you need to have a line. i said i'm not going to meet the president. i got a text early in the morning, meet under the jfk portrait outside the east room. this is very cloak and dagger. this is awesome, and had the opportunity to shake his hand. >> president obama. >> president obama. it's always thrilling whenever you get to meet the president. >> and you had no line. >> i had no line. but i did think of a line. so he grabs my hand. i said mary mazzio -- what's my f'ing line and i wouldn't let go of his hand. i said, you know, i was here 20

years ago with the olympic team, but now it's much more meaningful. >> good line. you're doing good. >> i was doing good. he pulls away, i'm not letting go of his hand. that's really cool you're an olympic athlete. and i forgot he was the president. and i was like check out the gun show. >> i like it. >> he was so funny. he said, you know what? you need to check out michelle's gun show. game over. >> that was a good line. you didn't need a line. >> "underwater dreams," backing into this story. i love what we saw so far. tell us the story. sounds incredibly inspiring and, by the way, so timely. >> an incredible story and i feel so lucky to have had the opportunity to tell it. it's really about four undocumented boys in the middle of the desert who built an underwater robot out of sticks and gum and pvc bits from home depot and traveled to this

sophisticated under water robotics competition and mayhem ensued. moments of great hilarity and innovation on the part of the boys. they put the robot in for testing and it started leaking. the only hispanic teens, jeans down to their hips, totally out of place. what's that stuff des kin. >> a guy said diapers. >> what about tampons? >> no. >> they stofed the leak with eight super plus tampons. >> can they run for president please? >> they stuffed the robot called stinky with six super plus tampons and stinky goes on. >> did they win? >> they end up defeating all these college teams including

m.i.t. >> i cannot believe -- >> is that not wonderful? >> how did you come across these incredible men? >> a teacher sent me this story years ago. what a great david and goliath story. here you have talent and capability in places that oftentimes america doesn't seem to look. i called the teachers. they said, oh, it's so nice you called. this is almost ten years ago when this happened. they said we're signing a deal with warner brothers. i said oh, expletive, shoot. i would call every year. they would be like, hi hear, how is it going? warner brothers rolled over their rights. about a year and a half ago, they said we haven't heard anything. if anybody is going to make this documentary, we think it should be you. so they gave me a great gift, and it's really an extraordinary story about where you can find talent and capability. >> how do you see it? >> excellent question. we opened in l.a. and new york with amc theaters.

we are on a shorter version of the film simultaneously on msnbc and telemundo on sunday at 1:00 p.m., both eastern pacific time and -- pacific time and eastern time. then we're doing a special initiative in fact with telemundo and nbc universal where we're going to be going around the country with amc. amc offered up to 100 free screenings, if you can serve youth and have more than 100 kids you to bring to the theater, you can see "underwater dreams" free of charge. of course, underwaterdreamsfilm.com. >> we backed into the story, but you and three of the students went to the white house. >> we did. and that was extraordinary that the white house saw the film, thought that it was important enough around underrepresented communities, particularly around math, science and engineering.

more american companies are desperate for these kinds of students, and these people are the future of the country. >> "underwater dreams" is out in theaters and will air on msnbc and telemundo this sunday at 1:00 p.m. you can read more from mary on msnbc.com. she'll be answering your questions about the film there, too. join in by leaving your question right in the comments of her op ed. at 10:00 this morning on jose's show, he'll be joined by some of the students at the heart of the film. mary, thigh. >> she has a lot of energy in the morning. i like this. >> just a tad bit on the line naughty. i like it. >> i did not drop the f bombs. >> that would be bad. >> that's already happened here. that was yesterday. actor tony goldwyn, you may know him as president fitzgerald grant, now taking on another

scandal. he'll join us to talk about his new drama. john hiatt has worked along some of the biggest names in music. he'll tell us what makes his new album so special when he joins us next on "morning joe." really... so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 dollars a month? yup. all five of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. introducing at&t mobile share value plans... ...with our best-ever pricing for business. he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. when sales rep steve hatfield books at laquinta.com, so he knows exactly when he can prep for his presentation. and when steve is perfectly prepped, ya know what he brings? and that's how you'll increase market share. any questions?

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♪ sometimes love can be so wrong ♪ ♪ like a fat man in a thong

>> those were some lyrics. go ahead, thomas. >> with us now is the singer-songwriter john hiatt is out with his 22nd album, do you believe this? the title "terms of my surrender." john, it is great to have you here. congratulations. we point out 22nd album, a 40-year career. where did you come up with the inspiration for this latest endeavor? >> you know, it's the same way i've always done it. i write about the songs and it seems like, well, i've got a good group of songs it's time to go in the studio seems to be how it works, you know. >> some of the greatest stars, singers of all time have also had the opportunity to use your words that you have created, but i'm just going to read from your latest "terms of surrender." sometimes love can be so wrong, like a fat man in a thong. i need explanation. talk to me. >> guilty. >> talk to me, john hiatt.

where do we get that? >> well, you know, inspiration can come from so many places, mika. >> i tell you, that is so wrong so i guess that makes sense. >> it can be. >> yes, it can be wrong. >> although it's perfectly -- people are perfectly comfortable in that situation, i've seen it with my own eyes. >> i'm sorry. >> that line just -- it came from when our kids were little, we were at a -- one of the british virgin islands and we were scuba -- not scuba diving but -- >> snorkeling? >> snorkeling, yeah, and all of a sudden this boat pulls up. and it's i assume a european couple as the lady was -- >> i know where this is going. >> the lady was topless. >> oh, okay. >> and the man -- the gentleman was wearing a thong. >> yes. >> and our girls had never seen anything like that. >> okay.

>> frankly, it was eye-opening to us as well. >> in every way. >> yeah. so i just remembered that because the girls were like, you know, laughing. >> their eyes were still burning niccole. >> i love this notion of negotiating terms of our own surrender. you were saying before we came on that that's not really the case, right? can you talk about the sentiment behind that? >> yeah, well the song kind of talks about trying to negotiate our own terms in life, in love -- >> sort of the point that you right about, right? >> the point being that it's -- we can't. or at least i can't. i haven't found a way, and i've tried. >> it's beautiful, sort of the letting go. that one makes the other impossible. >> yeah, surrender is sort of the key, i think, and it's the last thing we want to do, of course. >> john, i've got to ask you about little village because a lot of people know the songs

that came out of that group. little village didn't last for a long time. you kind of surrendered that with the other guys pretty quickly. >> yeah. it was such a great band and when we got together to play to make the record that you were describing, it was just sort of a serendipitous beautiful thing. when we made it official and named it little village, let's make this record as a band, it kind of -- the pressure, i think, got to us. i'm still 20 something years later i'm not really sure what happened. >> well, we're grateful for the songs anyway. the group might not have made it much further than an album. >> it was a magic moment and i loved playing with those guys. i still hold out hope that we'll play together again. >> oh, i like that. >> yeah, yeah. >> i like that. come here with that. all right, john hiatt, "terms of my surrender."

thank you so much for being on the show this morning. up next, hillary clinton goes on "the daily show" to push her new book but as you imagine, there was just one thing on jon stewart's mind. >> let me ask you a question. do you like commuting to work or do you like a home office? ? plus adding fuel to the fire surrounding gm. what the new york times is reporting. and flooding in the seeft and storms out west. bill karins is here with the extreme weather across much of the country. we're back in just a moment. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams.

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it's an incredibly, i think, complex and well reasoned and eyewitness view to the history of those four years and i think for everybody when i say no one cares, they just want to know if you're running for president. >> good morning. it's wednesday, july 16th. welcome to "morning joe." is it right in the middle of the summer? are we halfway through? >> don't say that. >> no. it always surprises me. it surprises me when it's over so i like to pace myself. with us on set -- >> it's only just begun. >> former communications director for george w. bush, nicolle wallace is here. former treasury official and economic analyst steve rattner

is an expert on fantastical summers. and political writer for "the new york times." nicholas confessore, good to have you on board. from washington we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein, along with willie, joe and me. we will start, i think, with hillary clinton on "the daily show." former secretary of state hillary clinton took to "the daily show" to promote her new book. but as often is the case for clinton, there was that one topic that dominated. take a look. >> i have a -- it's like a career aptitude test. >> this is good. this is good. i'm ready. >> do you like commuting to work or do you like a home office? what's your -- >> you know, i've spent so many years commuting, i kind of prefer a home office. that's where i wrote my book. it was on the third floor of our house so that worked. >> do you have a favorite shape for that home office? do you like that office -- let's say would you like that

office -- would you like it to have corners or not to have corners? >> you know, i think that the world is so complicated, the fewer corners that you can can have, the better. >> do you prefer to sit in traffic or cause it? if you said i am not running for president, it all stops. do you agree or disagree? >> i think a lot of people would lose their jobs if it all stopped. it seems to be -- >> it would stop for you. they would move on to chris christie or whoever else. >> they might. but i've been amazed at what a cottage industry it is. so i kind of expect it would continue. so i'm not really paying a lot of attention to it. >> just tease talking heads picking out every thing and making fun of it. it's not right. >> all right, joe. so you remember during the

campaign when you'd call hillary clinton your girlfriend? that was her. i feel like that should have been her first rollout, "the daily show." >> i thought she did really well. i think it probably should have been her -- maybe it's the first spot she goes after "morning joe" next time he puts a book out. she did really well. a lot of questions persist but i thought she was very relaxed. if you were running her political campaign like campaigns you ran in the past, you'd probably be pleased with last night, wouldn't you? >> he gets a lot of credit too because he managed to lighten it up. he didn't bore us with any passages that anyone is going to read in this book, he went straight to the question everybody wants to talk about it. she was ready for it but she wasn't overly prepared for it. >> what did you think, willie? >> i thought she did well. i only saw the clips this morning, i haven't seen the full interview but that was her at her best. she was very relaxed, she was laughing.

she has a pretty appealing laugh. but the more difficult questions came earlier in this book tour. this probably would have been good a month or so ago when she got mired in that talk about her money and she and jon talked about that and how she probably mishandled those questions early on, but last night was a good night for her. >> though clinton has been coy about her intentions, i don't think she has but some say she has, ready the hillary the super pac encouraging her to run is raking in cash. last quarter it raised nearly $2.5 million, its best period yet. on last night's show clinton once again addressed comments that drew heavy criticism when she claimed after leaving the white house in 2000 that her family was dead broke. >> that was an inartful use of words, obviously. >> right. >> bill and i have worked really hard and been successful. i'm really grateful for that. but what i worry about and talk about this in the book, i'm worried that oar people and

particularly younger people are not going to have the same opportunities we did. because even though we came from great circumstances in terms of our family loving us and bill had a much more difficult upbringing than i did, but still we believed that we could pretty much make our way up the ladder. and now, i think particularly a lot of young people don't believe that anymore and that bothers me a lot. >> obviously she's showing up on a comedy show, but this is the one area where she could have problems. where she could get -- she could be attacked and not exactly have the best response and that would be, number one, her ability to raise lots of money and become out of touch and, number two, cozy ties with wall street. >> this is one pivot, and i think she's improved upon the first one, which was, oh, we were broke. the other pivot that she needs to learn how to make is the one that john kerry, john mccain and mitt romney all failed to make, which is to shed the discomfort and the awkwardness about their

wealth. it makes us uncomfortable about their wealth. and until she can stand there and say this is who i am. i have been successful. but i'm not running for president to hide anything about my personal wealth. i also am not running for president because of it. and to pivot right off it and talk about what she's going to do for other people. we don't have a history in this country of disqualifying people who are wealthy but we don't want to talk about it. >> go ahead, joe. >> we really don't. if you are going to talk about it, don't be tortured about talking about it. we republicans have no problem with people getting rich. we admire people that have like the clinton story that say start from no one and get really rich. that reinforces what we believe about the american dream, that things like that still can happen. there still is a place called hope to borrow from them. but steve rattner, democrats got barack obama re-elected by vilifying mitt romney for being rich.

they made that calculation and john heilemann reported it in "new york" magazine in may of 2012 that barack obama couldn't win, they had to make mitt romney lose. the only way to make him lose was to make him look like an out of touch rich guy, and they were even bragging about it after the election. i read a column about it yesterday morning. so it's a little tougher for rich democrats to do this in 2016, is it not? >> well, of course foolish consistency is the haub goblin of little minds so i'm not sure the democrats will shirk from it for that reason. romney had two particular reasons about being rich. one was that he seemed out of touch. he wasn't the kind of guy you could ask the price of hamburger. >> but hillary seems out of touch on the book tour. >> on the book tour i agree she's not handled it perfectly. the second thing about romney were his taxes and all the ways that he found to get his tax rate down to those mid-teens rates. i think that was the really ugly part of romney -- i don't

think -- i certainly didn't begrudge romney the money he made. >> so barack obama paid taxes in the teens as well. not to really be meddlesome with facts, but barack obama paid like 18%, 19% in taxes as well. >> i didn't think that was so, joe. if it did, it was because his income was pretty low. he didn't have the same gimmicks. romney had a huge amount of tax loopholes and tax gimmicks but all that exposed what was wrong with our tax system. hillary doesn't have that. she does have the issue of the speeches and how much she gets paid for them. she has the issues of the ties to wall street. but i agree with niccole. as she herself as said she didn't handle those first set of answers artfully. the better answer would be we've worked hard, made a bunch of money. life has been good to us and now we intend to put it back by going into public service. >> ain't america great.

mika, we've got a lot of other news to get to. >> and some political news that could definitely have an impact on the midterms. democrats have been fund-raising and outfund-raising their republican counterparts in critical battleground states. nick confess oar reports that democrats running for senate raised more in kentucky, north carolina, alaska. but it wasn't just the candidates. the democrat campaign committee beat the republican one and has a $6 million cash advantage, willie. so democrats doing better with republicans. nick is with us. >> nick, take us inside some of these numbers. what's behind this big cash coming into the democratic party? >> what we're seeing is eye-popping numbers. it helps answer a question we've had for a couple of months which is would all this outside spending over the winter and spring just beat up the democrats so bad and make them spend so much money that when

they got to the summer campaign season they would be out of gas? the answer is almost, but not quite. they kept raising a lot of money. they have plenty on hand and they're not winning in every race but they're basically even, which means that the battle for the senate is not going to come down to this outside spending. now that we go into the summer months, that outside spending will be less of a piece of the total pie when the candidates are spending more of their own money. the candidates get the best rate on the advertising, a lot more bang for the buck. >> you also write about allison lundgren grimes looking to unseat mitch mcconnell. she raised $4 million last quarter. mcconnell raking in money too. he pulled in about $3 million, so he's up to $25 million for the cycle. by comparison, he raised $20 million at the end of the entire 2008 race. go back to lundergan grimes.

she's done extraordinarily well for a first-time candidate in a national race. >> everyone wants to beat mitch mcconnell on the left. he is the poster child for the senate republicans. you have hollywood money flowing into kentucky, out of state money on both sides. there was a super pac backing mitch mcconnell that doesn't have any money from kentucky in it and a lot from out of state so both these candidates will have a ton of money backing them and in their own coffers in this campaign. according to a new nbc news/marist poll, scott brown may have an uphill climb in the new hampshire senate race. incumbent democrat jeanne shaheen is hanging on to an eight-point lead. in another pivotal senate race, republican candidate joni ernst is surging. she's tied with democratic with bruce braley at 43%. in both states the president's approval doesn't break 4%.

joe. >> the president's approval ratings in state after state after state over the past couple days, sam stein, he's down in the 30s in the two states. new hampshire he's down low. iowa he's down low, and yet democrats still doing pretty well, outperforming their own president. in that new hampshire race a number to look at are the undecideds. there just aren't enough undecided voters as of mid-july for scott brown to catch up. of course that's why they hold the election in november, but it's looking like an uphill race for scott brown in a big way. >> especially for scott brown who doesn't come in with limited name i.d. everyone knows who scott brown is. certainly the first taste new hampshire voters got was this was a massachusetts senator decamping to new hampshire for the purposes of winning a seat. so he's got a lot of room to make up and not many people to convince because of his strong

name i.d. i think the president is kind of a problem here for democrats. obviously in state after state his approving rating is under water, below 40% is pretty problematic. and yet these candidates continue to hold on. >> front page of "the new york times" today, republican governor and potential 2016 hopeful chris christie heading to iowa tomorrow to rub elbows and fund raise for governor terry brandstad. it's a state christie would love to carry if he did run. wherever christie goes, controversy follows. this time christie is under fire from a conservative group taking aim at his judicial appointments in new jersey. the judicial crisis network says christie's selection record is liberal and the group is reportedly spending $75,000 on online ads targeting iowans over the next few days. >> christie has had five openings on the new jersey supreme court, enough to build a new majority.

but the court remains liberal. one christie appointee, the chief justice, is a democrat. so liberal he was mentioned as a potential barack obama nominee to the u.s. supreme court. christie even endorsed obama's liberal supreme court justice sonia sotomayor. important issues like obamacare are at stake in our courts. the next president of the united states may get to appoint as many as three u.s. supreme court nominees, a new majority. call chris christie, tell him to fight for judges who respect the rule of law. >> so, joe, christie at this point, i guess how would you characterize his play in the presidential race? complicated? he raises a lot of money for the party. he's still a big draw. but there are questions. >> it's getting less complicated by the day. niccole wallace, when chris

christie got in trouble six months ago, people turned to jeb and said we need you to run, but the longer jeb's name has been out there the more questions have been raised. does he really want to do it. are there a lot of problems surrounding him. you look at the poll numbers and he's upside down in a big way in general elections. jeb is looking at those numbers, i'm sure. i haven't talked to him about it. but you almost get the sense that chris christie and his camp are saying, okay, the smoke is starting to clear. they have looked at jeb. he's either the establishment candidate or i am. this morning it's looking more like chris christie. if i'm chris christie, i'm absolutely thrilled that a nationwide conservative group thinks i actually could have the power to appoint supreme court justices as president of the united states. this guy is back in play and he's ahead in a lot of polls, very fascinating. >> listen, those are the kind of ads that you hope the group will run in ohio and michigan and

florida in a general election because they make you a lot less scary to women who care about issues decided by the supreme court. let me say things that got me in trouble six months ago when i said that "the new york times" reporters were from mars and republicans were from venus. nobody ever cared on venus about bridgegate, okay? you actually hear on conservative radio that some people thought, well, you know, someone who will stand up for himself and his party isn't a terrible thing. now, i'm not saying that what his administration did is excusable. i'm not saying it could ever be turned into a political asset. i'm just saying that the way republican primary voters processed what we largely described as bridgegate, a mega scandal in national politics, was experienced by grassroots republicans in a completely different way. a way that we here on mars,

those of us who exist in the mainstream media, could never understand. >> and by the way, on venus, sam stein, the fact that "the new york times" went after chris christie so much actually made him less suspicious on the planet in which niccole and iin habit. >> a lot of "the new york times" reporters were born on venus. >> right here, guys. >> we can't see you because you're on venus. >> i see him. >> he's there, but he's not there. i think niccole is not completely wrong, but somewhat wrong. the reason i think that is because these are sophisticated grassroots voters. they may not care whether or not chris christie ordered bridge lanes closed or how he treated his opponents or whatnot, but they do care about winning elections and they are very aware that everything that he did in new jersey with respect to bridgegate can be turned into a very, very obvious efficient political ad against him that

has viability in the general election. they're not going to vote for him -- >> but sam, he didn't do anything in bridgegate. that's what months and months and months of democratic-controlled. >> regardless of whether or not he did it -- >> but that's the whole pointing. whether or not he did it is the whole pointing and there's no evidence that chris christie did anything when it came to the lane closures. >> it's not -- >> obviously the longer it goes, obviously, the better it goes for chris christie. he has democrats, he's got certain newspapers that have been obsessing on this. and what niccole is explaining to people out there that may be shocked and stunned and deeply saddened and racing to their mother's basement and getting the cheetos out -- >> don't bring cheetos into this. >> i'm doing it, sam stein! how she hates america, et cetera, et cetera, it's just a helpful explanation for those of you who live on mars about who

actually has a better shot today of getting the republican nomination. still ahead on "morning joe" he's the star of one of tv's most popular shows, scandal, and she's a staple of the bright lights of broadway. tony goldwyn and marin ireland join us with a look at their new show. plus could california be turned into six separate states? the new plan to split up the state that's gaining steam. and big changes for one of marvel's iconic super heroes -- this is a wrong story. who does this to archie, right? are we talking about archie? it's not archie, there's more? there's someone else? oh, all right. well, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> you never read comic books, i know you didn't as a kid. i know. well, good morning, everyone. in the east we can't wait for the coolness to arrive. these thunderstorms the last couple of days have caused a lot of trouble at the airports, on the roads, and they have done some damage too. this is vorhees, new jersey.

some of these thunderstorms did have strong, gusty winds with them and you can see the blue tarp on the side of that house and that tree did do some damage. also the flooding was epic. there was three major highways around new york city at one point yesterday that were all closed because of the heavy torrential rains. thankfully that is over with. the morning commute has been much better. now our concern is up in the northeast. especially the providence area to boston. we have very heavy rain out over the oceans that are now moving onshore. we have a flash flood warning in effect around the providence area. they're worried over the next hour we could get about 2 inches of rain. you can see the lightning strikes just north of newport and that's all heading up towards boston so watch out, some torrential rains are moving in over the next hour or so, right at the tail end of our morning rush hour. we do have flash flood watches up for the afternoon too, but this will continue until about 6:00. we've ended the rains in new

york city. just some sprinkles left now. the heavy rains over providence until about noon today. boston, it looks like by 5:00 or 6:00 your heavy rain threat will be over with. it's a beautiful day d.c. to philadelphia. the low humidity, this is what we were waiting for. this is our big blast of polar coolness. it has moved all the way to dallas and atlanta so step outside, roll the windows down and enjoy a beautiful day there. atlanta 84 and low humidity in the middle of july? that almost never happens. that's what made this unique weather episode very unique. same for you, st. louis, look at those blue skies. enjoy a great day. the heat and humidity will be back next week. you're watching "morning joe." when la quinta.com sends sales rep steve hatfield the ready for you alert, the second his room is ready. you know what he brings? any questions? can i get an a, steve? yes! three a's! he brings his a-game! the ready for you alert, only at laquinta.com!

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let's take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times." there are new questions today about how much gm knew about the deadly crashes linked to defective ignition switches. in documents obtained through the freedom of information act the "times" found gm officials avoided answering questions about the crashes in at least three cases. even though internal investigations gave conclusive answers. during the so-called death inquiries, representatives from the automaker said they had either not assessed the incidents, opted not to respond or invoked attorney-client privilege. at least 13 deaths over the past ten years have been linked to defective ignition switches in gh vehicles. joe. >> and steve rattner, there is a story specifically about saturn

where a gentleman died in a rental car. their engineers had warned about the defect recently, before the crash, and they claimed to know nothing about it. this looks terrible for general motors. >> yeah, it does. there's doing good to be said about this. i would just say two things. first, when i read that story today, it sounded like lawyers who were very much in control of gm's answers to those inquiries. that's not an excuse, not a good explanation but that's my guess. the only other point i would make is all the incidents the "times" referenced today were pre-2009, before the bankruptcy, before the change in management. we all know that gm's culture back then was terrible. it was about as bad a culture as i've ever seen at a company. all right, from our parade of papers, "the los angeles times" a measure to split california into six separate states could be headed for the 2016 ballot. the group six californias needs

808,000 signatures by friday to get the measure before voters. it delivered the first batch yesterday and expects to submit the rest by the friday deadline. the effort to split up the golden state being driven by millionaire investor tim draper who spent $2 million of his own dollars. he claims the move would refresh the government and attract more business. but critics say it would be devastating, potentially creating some of the poorest states in the nation. even if california voters approve the measure, it would still need the okay from congress and the president, which i'm saying, joe, i'm thinking that's going to be a hard sell. >> be a very hard sell. maybe start with two californias and we'll go from there. "usa today" apple and ibm are joining forces to create apps to be used on ipads and iphones. they are going to develop more than 100 software programs compatible with apple's operating system. ibm is going to be selling the apps and other apple products to

its business partners. the move will be expanding apple's consumer base and marks its first joint venture partnership in years. "the new york times," concerns are mounting from policy makers over the rapid growth of e-cigarette flavors. up to 250 new flavor varieties are introduced each bhont 7,000 flavors currently on the market. cigarette flavors were outlawed in 2009 for fears it would attract children to smoke but e-cigarettes remain unregulated and bypass that law. a senate committee says the amount of flavors available makes the product appealing to children and teens and are pushing for fda regulation. >> by the way, willie and i will tell you david beckham's favorite flavor, wild cherry. "the washington post" marvel comics. they announced yesterday that the character thor will now be known as the goddess of thunder. i don't like where this is

going. in upcoming issues, thor will now be known as a woman. the change is not temporary and she, yes, my friends, she is now the one and only authorize. still ahead this morning, from the star of "scandal," where everyone is guilty of something. oh, that's good. tony goldwyn joins the table when "morning joe" returns. vo: this is the summer.

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brian: 25 years. matt: that's how long we've been talking about the most important social issues. savannah: education. al: conservation. chris: uniting the nation.

jim: with a bit of imagination. the more you know. we have to talk about the case. >> it's midnight. i'm going home. >> just listen, sit. terry has been writing us letters ever since he was in prison and we couldn't take the case. >> because his semen was find inside had body. >> in almost every letter he describes his arrest. in one he mentioned being photographed by a police photographer. >> again, his semen was found -- >> will you shut up. sorry. sorry. i haven't slept. >> that was a scene from "the divide." the first scripted series. with us the show's co-star marin ireland and executive producer

and director tony goldwyn. he's just kind of busy lately, just a tad bit. tony has an on-camera gig as president fitzgerald grant on the hit series "scandal." i've actually started watching "scandal." my daughter has brought me in and i've watched you on "scandal." you're also playing a polygamist lately? >> yes, i was playing a movie about warren jeffs. >> good god, and now this, which focuses on the innocence project. you've taken this on. marin is your star. tell us about "the divide." what's the concept? >> it was inspired by a movie i made called "conviction" which was a true story about an innocence case. marin plays a young woman just out of law school who is working for our fictionalized version of the innocence project in philadelphia. >> she plays a sexy whip-smart

caseworker with a knack for getting in and out of tricky situations. >> you've said it better than i ever could have. >> pretty good, right, thomas? >> very good. >> so she pulls a thread on a very high-profile double murder in which an african-american family had been murdered by two white guys. the d.a. made his career on this case. 12 years later on the eve of an execution she finds a piece of evidence and the whole thing starts to unravel and the season follows this case as it shakes up everyone's lives involved with it. >> very cool. >> so we know that scripted drama around our justice system does well. but it seems as if all of us as viewers are uninformed when it comes to the consequences of our justice system. we make a lot of assumptions about it. marin, let me ask you, what have you learned by attaching yourself to this project that have kind of schooled you in the opposite direction? >> it's interesting because i feel like something i didn't

ever take into consideration is that they're human beings so there's room for error, that all of us can make mistakes. things that i didn't know a lot about beforehand like eyewitness misidentification and false confessions are things that happen all the time. i really had no idea of any of those things or why they happen and how easy it is for those to happen. obviously just the fact that we all make mistakes as human beings and there's a lot of room for that. >> which is really what our show is about. you know, the justice system is kind of a metaphor for what we all deal with in terms of moral ambiguity and we think we're doing something for absolutely the right reasons or our desire to get it right and you cross all kinds of gray areas in that. >> oh, yeah, fitz, we know. we know all about you. we've got your number. >> tell us about your background and also how you prepared for this role. >> i've actually done a lot of theater in the new york community. that's how tony and i met. >> marin is one of our greatest

theater actresses. >> you're so sweet. and i've been lucky to be able to do some other tv and movie roles while i've also been doing theater and staying active in that. for this role in particular i spent about a month interning at the innocence project. they let me play my part in real life there. >> great. >> yeah, it was incredible. it was actually amazing. it's a legal environment that i hadn't actually seen on television or movie before. it's a different kind of law office. it's not like a lot of other things we've seen depicted before. so being immersed for that in a while was overwhelming honestly. while i was there, manning gerard richardson was exonerated after 19 years in prison. he came by the office. it was incredibly emotional for everybody there so i learned a lot. >> what about your character, i read the cheesy description but what did you learn either about yourself or what were you able to do with this character or

explore? >> when we were talking about the character, it was somebody trying not to let her vulnerability show and was really trying to kind of keep her walls up and stay guarded in all these difficult situations. what i really learned firsthand when i was there is how emotionally overwhelming is actually is working with these people and the clients that they're talking to in prison who have been there for 15, 20, 25 years. so i kind of learned firsthand how difficult it is. >> tony, you have a lot of different points of view to this next question. you are, by the way, i just read the grandson of samuel goldwyn of metro goldwyn mayer movie makers. but working on "scandal," where do you think television is going? i don't watch regular television anymore. >> i don't either. i watch you guys, the news and then everything else when i want to watch it what i want to watch. so i think what's happening in our television universe, people

are driven by the show. so it's a consumer audience-driven choice. so, for example, the we network in the past has been a reality program mainly in reruns and they're rebranding themselves by introducing this -- >> it's almost random to think of your show on there. >> amc networks owns it and they wanted to do with this show what they did with "mad men" on amc. amc had been a movie channel and "mad men" went on and they're using "the divide" to do the same thing. but people will see "the divide," start talking about it and then they'll go to we and it's good for we and for us. >> does that lead to places where you can just dial up shows? is that going to be the breakdown of network primetime programming? >> i think it's a challenge. it raises the bar.

what's the term? >> the rising tide. >> the rising tide lifts all boats. >> like, for example, i'm trying to figure out my daughters watch "orange is the new black." they watch "breaking bad." i'm like i don't know if i want you -- it's great. it's incredible art form, great television, great producing, great acting, amazing, but there's no restrictions on what they're going to show. i mean it changes -- changed the dynamic on a lot of levels and made it almost impossible for some networks to compete because they don't have the latitude. >> that's true in terms of nudity and language. but for example, yes, on "scandal," for example, we push it as far as we can on abc and then a little bit further, but on "the divide," we can't do what hbo does. we're allowed like two swear words. as a story teller, you go these

are our restrictions and we're still able to do something that feels very real, very authentic, very out there, sometimes very dark. so i think it's a great thing. >> well "the divide" airs on wednesdays at 9:00 p.m., 8:00 p.m. central. marin ireland and tony goldwyn, thank you so much. good luck with this. >> is olivia leaving d.c.? >> no! >> i don't know. >> that's it. >> "morning joe" will be right back. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman,

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with millions of reviews, tripadvisor makes any destination better. 45 past the hour. it's time for sully. cnbc's brian sullivan here with business before the brian. cnbc just reporting some big news that could have drastically

changed the media industry. what was it? >> this is a big one there, mika. good morning. reporting this morning that 21st century fox, which is the arm now of fox because it split news corporate fox made an offer to buy time warner back in june but apparently was rebuff e. under terms of the offer it was about an $80 billion deal, $85 a share for twx. rupert murdoch would buy the parent company of cnn but then sell off cnn the news network over antitrust concerns, obviously owning fox news and cnn. regulators would not approve of that most likely here. here's the point. time warner may have rejected the offer, but time warner's stock this morning is up about 15% to that $85 level. so what the market is telling us, at least the premarket is telling us is that time warner may still very much be in play, either by 21st century fox or by

somebody else. let the consolidation in media begin. >> oh, my lord. >> remember, our parent company is buying time warner cable. that's the hard asset, the pipe, the cable company. this is the content side of time warner, separately traded companies. >> it's interesting news. i wouldn't hold my breath until time warner gets sold. >> a lot of people may not realize, steve, you're an investment banker and former reporter and you're a media focused investment banker. so what's your view? any chance in heck that this kinds of a deal would get done? >> there's a chance in heck but you have big antitrust concerns. so far the regulators have not allowed two big studios to combine. there are not many companies to do a deal this size. i don't think you'll see time warner sell to rupert under any sort of circumstances so don't hold your breath. >> brian, stay with us. steve, yesterday was the annual report on the federal budget

deficit and you have some charts to show us how things are looking. >> sure. so we haven't talked about the deficit in a long time and part of that is because the deficit has been going down and it's been going down actually faster than most people, including the cbo, thought until very recently it would. in 2014, it's going to be down to $519 billion which is almost $100 billion more than the cbo thought as recently as last fall. but from here on out we should look at deficits rising again so we are at the low point. if you assume that current policies stay in effect, we're basically on an upward track. what that means is that the debt to gdp ratio goes up and the cbo issued a bunch of numbers that are pretty scary. what is now 74% ratio could be as high as 170% in 2040. so that's one piece of news. the second piece of news which

we talked about before but the cbo gave us some new numbers is that the rise in spending on social security and to a great efr extent on health care is continuing to squeeze out spending on we call it discretionary spending, really everything else ranging from the military but all the way through to education, infrastructure, r & d. >> is that why the deficit is going back up? >> well, it's going up, it's being pushed by social security and health care and that's squeezing down this other spending as you can see from 7% at the moment over here down to 4.9% out in 2024. so it just means less money for all the kinds of things that we all think are important. and so health care and social security, again, still rising. the one piece of interesting and modestly good news that came out yesterday, which again more confirmation, is that medicare costs are actually not going up as fast as they were. that for a variety of reasons, the affordable care act being one of them, the recession being one of them, other kinds of

controls over spending on health care. spending on medicare as a percent of gdp is actually dropping this year for the first time in a long time and will plateau for several years but it will then continue to rise, and rise very, very rapidly. the one piece of good news there is that the cbo is projecting it will rise a little more slowly than they thought previously but still to huge, huge levels and putting that squeeze on everything else. so it's not really time to forget about the deficit, it's coming back. the debt problem is there. the health care problem is a little bit better. but it's still out there. >> and guys, listen, we've got a lot of spending issues. certainly you could say we've got a revenue issue, a spending issue, probably depends on which side of the political spectrum you are on what your solution might be but the answer too may be very simple. have babies, right? a lot of what steven is talking about as far as that spending curve goes also would track almost perfectly with a demographic curve of the united

states. as the baby boomers get older, you tend to consume more health care later in life, right, steven? so as we reach that sort of peak where the baby boomers are in their late 70s or early 80s, there is some optimism longer term, at least way longer dated numbers that i've seen which is once we roll over that sort of the majority of the country aging, we might be in better shape. what do you think about that? >> the problem is we won't be here there. >> you speak for yourself on the have babies part of it, brian sullivan. >> i'm doing my part. and i can tell you one thing, she's looking good right now. >> i bet she is. all right. brian sullivan, thank you. thank you, steve. one day you'll put a happy birthday face on one of those charts for me. >> i'll make a happy face for you. >> okay, thanks. we'll be right back. what would happen... if energy could come from anything? or if power could go anywhere?

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