tv First Look MSNBC July 18, 2014 2:00am-2:31am PDT
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so i think the satellite images from the american assets would be helpful also. >> alan diehl, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> you're welcome. ♪ good morning, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. it is friday, july 18th. and welcome to a special hour-long edition of "way too early." the breaking news on two international stories. the downing of malaysia flight 17, as well as israel's forces in the gaza strip. we want to talk about the plane that went down, killing 298 people onboard. u.s. officials believe it was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. but trying to determine if it was fired from the ukrainian or russian side of the border. ukraine's president is calling
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it a terrorist act and demanding an investigation. he says that pro-russian rebts are responsible. but the separatists have denied responsibility. malaysia airlines flight 17 took off around noon from amsterdam for kuala lumpur. the boeing 777 went down about 25 miles from the russian border. you see the trajectory of the start of the flight there, to where it went down. witnesses reported loud explosions in the sky. debris was visible for a span of nine miles. airline officials say they were told the route was safe before they took off. let's show you the map, showing all of the international flights that are avoiding the air space over ukraine, following the plane crash. you can see how expanded that is. pro-russian rebels are helping with recovery efforts. and rebels claim they have recovered most of the plane's black boxes. president obama and russian president vladimir putin spoke earlier about the sanctions
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issued the day before, the u.s. toward russia. it was during that call, that putin notified president obama at the end of the conversation, that a plane had crashed. putin expressed condolences to the victims' families in a statement. but blamed ukraine, saying, in part, quote, i want to note that this tragedy would not have happened if there were peace on this land. if the military actions had not been renewed in southeast ukraine. and certainly, the state over whose territory this occurred bears responsibility for this awful tragedy. white house officials say president obama is in touch with the national security team. and the security council is scheduled to hold a meeting at 10:00 a.m. we want to look at the pro-russian rebels, who the ukrainian government claims would be responsible for shooting down this airplane. last night, the self-proclaimed leader of the group made a personal appearance at the crash site. in the circle, that's him, in the center of this photo, surrounded by guards. they arrived to survey the crash
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overnight. the separatists have denied being responsible for shooting down the plane. but there is evidence that calls the claims into question. the rebels did claim responsibility for shooting down two ukrainian military planes earlier in the week. and ukrainian officials released phone calls between a rebel commander and fighters, which they allege shows the group is responsible for shooting down malaysia flight 17. >> a commander posted on the
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russian version of facebook that the rebels shot down and plane. and added, quote, we did warn you, do not fly in our sky. the rebels say the phone calls are not legitimate. want to bring in retired army colonel jack jacobs, he's also an msnbc military analyst. the blame game is continuing right now. what shocked most people is president putin performing president obama during the phone call about sanctions that this crash had taken place. let's talk about how neutral investigators can get into the crash site to be honest brokers and try to figure this out. how can that be done? >> it can't. i can't envision it can be done easily. first of all, there's not a large number of nations that are willing to send their people over to a region that's unsecured. normally, it's ukraine. but this area and most of eastern ukraine is either contested or under the control
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of the russian -- ethnic russian rebels in that region. nobody can secure their safety or guarantee their safety. there's not going to be nations that want to send their people over there. in addition to that, the site has been contaminated. there were videos of civilians climbing all over the place, taking things and so on. the rebels claim they have the black box. it's difficult to envision how any investigation is going to generate anything of use. >> what we can say is this was blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile, roughly at 33,000 feet. at an altitude, a safe altitude, what it thought was the cruising altitude, from amsterdam to kuala lumpur. jim miklaszewski was reporting on what the pentagon thinks was responsible for this. take a listen. >> it was a powerful missile that struck the malaysian airliner. and ever since last february, when russia appeared ready to invade ukraine, u.s. spy
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satellites have been trained on the border. and infrared satellites first detected the launch. then, the blast, as the missile hit the plane. the weapons are russian-made anti-aircraft missiles. four missiles on a turret, launched from a vehicle loaded with high-tech electronics. the missile is 18 feet long. it's guided to the target by radar. has a range of 25 miles and 46,000 feet altitude. so fast, you can't see it coming, with a speed of nearly one mile per second. u.s. officials seay a ukrainian military plane was shot down by the same kind of weapons system. u.s. officials are confident it was a missile that shot down the airliner. but they're not sure who fired the shot. according to u.s. officials, analysts are poring over all of the intelligence tonight, to figure out whether it was ukrainian separatists or
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russians who fired the shot. but whatever pulled the trigger, it was still a russian weapon. >> jim miklaszewski pointing out there this was a russian weapon. but there is am ambiguity if this was from the separatists or the military at all. we have different headlines. "the daily news" saying this is putin's war. and, jack, senator john mccain coming out with a statement about responsibility. i want to play that for everybody and get your take on the other side. take a listen. >> the separatists could have only gotten that capability from russia. and so, therefore, the culpable party here is vladimir putin. >> jack, what do you say about that? there is a connective tissue for where the weapons come from. the u.s. probably has more information that they're already putting out there about that. so, what does this mean for the relationship between the u.s. and russia going forward?
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again, i stress that the president learned about this, or at least vladimir putin expressed, about the plane crash during that call about sanctions. >> yeah. well, it's not going to help the relationship, which is already on the outs. we've instituted new and stronger sanctions. it will be interesting to see, by the way, whether or not the europeans come along now, that there were europeans, shot down by a russian-made missile. they've been reluctant to go along with us, putting sanctions on russia because they have very lucrative oil and gas contracts with russia. but now, they may change their mind. but with respect to the weapon itself, supplied by russia. they could have gotten it -- stolen it, actually, from ukraine. the ukrainians say they haven't lost one. but in any case, it's a russian-made weapon. we will -- we know who did it. we know who did it because of what jim miklaszewski said.
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we have satellites, not just infrared satellites. but also optical satellites that have resolution down to and below one foot resolution down on the ground. it's interesting that the vice president said, well, it was taken down by a missile. how did we know that? we knew that because we actually saw it from satellite. if we saw it from the satellite, we can also tell from where it was shot. if it was shot from the russian side of the border, unequivocally a russian shot. if it was from the ukrainian side of the border, could have been either way. >> we're getting this from angela merkel in germany. she's coming out with a statement saying those responsible will be brought to justice. there's a close connection between vladimir putin and angela merkel. obviously, angela merkel, with the force of the e.u. behind her. but germany, remaining a client state of russia for energy resources. one thing that was interesting over the last 12 hours is ukraine coming out, saying while
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the forces and the fighting has been going on, with the pro-russian separatists, they haven't been using any type of anti-aircraft missiles against them. there's no need to. we do know that the pro-russian separatists have been trying to use that against any type of air strikes that the ukrainian forces could provide. you have to look at this as who benefits most from the cause of this. >> the separatists have been boasting about having shot down ukrainian aircraft over the last two weeks. so, it's difficult to envision how they wouldn't -- that they haven't done this one. the second thing that's really interesting about this is the fact that there was a posting by the separatists, boasting this actually took place. and it was quickly withdrawn. nobody benefits from it. but envision this. you're in a war. you have sophisticated
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equipment, like these sa-6s and sa-7s, manned by barely trained people, who are in organizations that are not only poorly trained but also poorly led, for which there's a great deal of benefit that accrues from shooting anything down. and you can see how something like this can happen. >> jack, we're going to ask you to stay with us. we want to get to some of the details starting to emerge about the 298 victims onboard that malaysian airlines flight 17. there were 173 people from the netherlands, as well 44 people from malaysia. and officials are trying to identify the nationalities of 20 people. and the u.s. state department is working to determine if any american citizens were onboard. there are certain news agencies that are saying there were americans. according to "the sydney morning herald," about 100 people were heading to an aids conference in malaysia. and in an eerie facebook
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posting, a passenger sent out a photo moments before takeoff. when translated, it reads, if it disappears, this is what it looks like. but there are stories about people who are lucky to be alive, after not boarding that flight from amsterdam. listen to this woman, who was supposed to be onboard. >> i'm feeling physically sick. i was, like, from the hague, coming to the airport, in the taxi. just crying. i'm just thinking that -- i feel like i've been given a second chance. >> there was not enough room, excuse me, to be onboard. joining us from amsterdam is nbc's chuck henry. chuck, it's amazing to hear that story. we see that young woman there, carrying an infant in her arms. we know the tally went up because originally there had been the reporting that came out that didn't include three infants that were onboard. that's why the number went up. >> right. >> how are families there being told about information that's
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coming out of ukraine because the netherlands is mainly where most of the passengers originated from. >> we feel that most of them are ka congregating here. what they're being told, we don't know. they've been taken to a location a short distance from the airport itself. it's not here at the complex. there's grief counselors there. other people to help them in any way they need. but specifically, what they're being told, we don't know. we suspect that it was maybe like the other malaysian airlines plane that vanished, that they had people there -- gave them as much information as they possibly could. an eerie thing. in almost exactly one hour from now, malaysian flight 17 from amsterdam to kuala lumpur will take off again. in the arrival hall that has the designation, mh-17, like yesterday's flight. there's been no effort to change it at all. you would think that would happen. we had a crew at the check-in
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counter. talked to one gentleman who was taking the same flight today. are you nervous about getting on the plane after what happened yesterday? he said, he is. but he felt like he had no choice, since he already had the ticket. and he said he didn't have enough money to change his ticket. so, he was going anyway. the other thing that gets you is there's so many young people here. time for summer vacation. summer break. so many young people. one of the things we wonder is how many young people were actually on this plane. high school, maybe college-aged students. and their families drop them off here at the airport. only to return several hours later and hear that tragic news. as far as that goes, inside terminal 3, it's business as usual. you would expect there might be outpouring of grief or sympathy by the airline itself. and we found none of that. >> chuck, you talk about how there have been grief counselors put on site for certain family members that want to partake in that. and you bring up malaysian airlines. they had sent out certain press
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releases or certain statements yesterday. how communicative have they been? and also, when you talk directly about that flight that's going to be taking off in the same -- from the same origination to the same destination, what do they say about the flight path? >> we didn't find anybody saying that the flight path had been changed. but obviously we know, yesterday, the airline made a statement. they've been giving most of the press releases on their website. and most of the information has been coming that way, rather than a spokesperson here at the airport. they have changed their flight. they're not going to fly over the ukraine at all. and one of the odd things, you know, we had those two military transports shot down in the last two weeks. and they raised the ceiling. they thought commercial aircraft will be safe above 32,000 feet. and we know that is not the case because the missiles could go all the way slightly above 40,000 feet, which makes one wonder, why didn't they just close the entire air space
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rather than put a restriction on it? >> chuck henry reporting for us in amsterdam. thank you. appreciate it. jack, let me talk to you about what it means for international flights, restricted air space over conflict zones. malaysian airlines came out yesterday saying the path this plane originally was tracked for, this was a safe zone. there were no red flags raised because of the trajectory of this. >> except that the western airlines, particularly the united states, american airlines, the united states airlines, have not been flying over there. the faa sent out a warning this path, over this area, should not be used. and if you look at the map, you can see why this path was used. it is the most direct path from the netherlands to malaysia. and therefore, uses the least fuel and therefore is the
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cheapest. the thought probably also is that if the aircraft is flying above 32,000, 33,000 feet, it is outside the range of most of the -- of all of the handheld, shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles, which have a slant range under ten miles and can't hit anything up at that level. and without even thinking about the sa-6s and sa-11s. and also complicated by the notion that nobody in his right mind would shoot down a civilian aircraft. and they would know that it's a civilian aircraft because it has a beacon identifying it as such. all those things inspired to result in this. >> you talk about the faa. our country relying on them for safe zone travel. there's an international body that oversees international flights. that's what malaysia airlines said they thought this was a safe path. who is supposed to take the lead
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over deciding what is technically a safe path? >> well, at the end of the day, it's the airline itself that approves the flight plan. and if the airline -- if the airline is concerned, i'm trying not to be -- you'll take a little bit of risk. it's the airline's decision on what path to take. and u.s. flag airlines and now european flag airlines have decided that they're not going to take any risk whatsoever. and therefore, not going to fly over any contested zone. >> colonel jack jacobs. it's just after 12:00 p.m. in the ukraine. also, the breaking news out of gaza, backed up by tanks. israeli forces invaded the gaza strip yesterday. these are some of the first images out of there because of the escalating crisis with hamas militants. a busy friday. and we've got it covered for you. back with much more after this.
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>> israel said its ten-day offensive against hamas has, quote, entered a new phase. it's unclear how long it could lost. israeli officials suggested two weeks. hamas has begun to respond, firing more rockets into israel, and threatening israel, saying if it continues with this offensive, it will, quote, pay a heavy price. (vo) get ready! fancy feast broths. they're irresistabowl... completely unbelievabowl... totally delectabowl. real silky smooth or creamy broths. everything she's been waiting for. carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any by-products or fillers. wow! being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. fancy feast broths. wow served daily. virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes.
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story of the day in the middle east. israel has launched a full-on ground assault in gaza. last night, the operation known at "protective edge," began as israeli troops and tanks rolled into areas of the gaza strip. while naval ships hit targets in the southern regions, we could see ground forces going in around foot. a focus on destroying tunnels used by hamas to enter israel. a spokesman for the israeli military said their goal was to pursue, paralyze and threaten hamas militants. the gaza health ministry reporting that at least 11 palestinians have been killed. and at least 240 individuals have been killed since air strikes began last week. that includes the deaths of 25 women and 40 children. a hamas spokesperson saying israel will, quote, pay a high price for its ground invasion. but it is not deterring the israeli government from going forward. the military is calling up
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reservists. in addition to the 50,000 already drafted to fight. this is the first time in five years, since 2009, that israeli troops have entered hamas-controlled territory. want to bring in martin fletcher, live from tel aviv. and let's explain the escalation. we know we had been reporting on egypt trying to helm a truce here. that brokerage failed. explain the point where they felt they needed to ground invade. >> reporter: there's been a buildup of the army for a ground invasion for about ten days. but it was clear the israeli government did not really want to do it. what happened, what changed the game, was two days ago, when hamas refused the truce that egypt had offered. at that point, it now appears israel gave the green light for the ground operation. but they didn't say go. they gave the green light. then, the final straw appears to have been yesterday, two things. after the humanitarian pause, a
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huge barrage of rockets from gaza continued to fly into israel. 150 after the 5-hour break. and specifically, in the morning, there was that tunnel operation, where the israeli spotted what they said were 13 palestinians who had gone through a tunnel from gaza into israel, with the aim of attacking soldiers and civilians. and israel spotted them and shelled them. so, those two incidents, the rockets and the shelling of the -- the infiltration attempt, showed israel that hamas was still very much if the game. was not cowed by israel's rocket barrage of the last ten days. and to maintain, israel needed to act on the ground. that's what caused the order to go. and when israel went in, they went in very hard with, as you say, they called up 18,000. that makes a total of about 68,000 israeli reserve soldiers called up. that's more than any other incursions in '09 and 2012. significant israeli force is
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operating inside gaza. backed up by massive shelling from the sea and from the air. one right-wing -- one of the right-wing ministers described it this way. israel, he says has gone from iron dome to iron fist. >> martin, when we talk about what happened in the past, just five years ago, in '09, again, a time where israel sent in ground troops, hamas was able to stem off any of the offenses and at least regroup and amass massive weapons, missiles. so, is that why we're seeing the huge influx of reservists and other military operatives being drawn into this conflict, from israel's standpoint? >> yes, it is. many of the analysts here watching what's been happening over the last ten days, say that hamas in gaza, after being pounded from the air with more than 1,600 air strikes, targeted air strikes in mass positions. nevertheless, they're watching hamas continuing to be able to fire rockets at israel.
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almost at will, it seems. but there's been about 20, an average of 130 a day. hamas looks organized. well dug in. they've been preparing for the operation for a long time. and israelis have full respect for what hamas has been able to achieve. they went in reluctantly and with full force. >> just to point out the numbers, since july 8th, in terms of casualties and debts, we have 260 palestinians which have been killed, including roughly about 14 children under the age of 12. that happened on wednesday and thursday. and more than 2,000 wounded. in israel, one civilian dead and several others wounded. obviously, those in gaza are taking a much more detrimental and deathly toll than those in israel. >> well, that's right. and israel does not apologize for that. israel says we were forced into doing this. hamas is hiding its rocket locations among civilians. hence, the death toll. and israel says we'll do what we
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need to do to stop the rockets. the other factor is israel's extraordinary technical achievement of creating the iron dome anti-rocket shield, with largely american money, which has been extraordinarily effective. and has enabled israeli, even though they had 130 rockets a day fired at their cities, most israelis are taking it easy. they run to the shelters when the sirens go off. and they come out and carry on with their lives. not only the iron dome. israel has a sophisticated network of bomb shelters all over the country, where people know where they are, hide and can hide in them. one thing the israelis say is, look. hamas has spent a fortune building up their war infrastructure. they haven't spent a penny in defense infrastructure for their people, hence the results we see. >> you make a great point for the new normal in the iron dome. martin fletcher from tel aviv. ahead, we bring you the latest on malaysian airlines
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