right here on msnbc. no break here. hundreds of civilians dead as a passenger jet is shot out of the sky over eastern ukraine. can a real crash site investigation happen in the middle of a war zone? president obama first learned about the crash during a phone call with none other than vladimir putin, but there's still big questions about who fired the missile. also this morning, a ground invasion in gaza by israeli forces. the first time it's happened in years and israel's prime minister declares that the operation could end up expanding significantly. good morning from washington. it's friday, july 18th, 2014. this is "the daily rundown." bizz busy morning obviously. we begin with the crash of malaysian airliner 17. it was shot down killing all 298 people on board. two big things going on today. the first focus is on getting into the crash site and second will be attempts to pressure

vladimir putin to deescalate things, considering the role that russia may have played in this incident. as we said right now, the top priority is the crash site and the investigation. this morning emergency workers and police officers are searching through the wreckage scattered across a six-mile area in eastern ukraine. a ukrainian official says 181 bodies have been located so far. earlier today an aide to one pro-russian rebel leader said they had recovered the plane's blacks boxes, although another rebel leader says that's not the case. there are also reports that ukrainian emergency responders may have found two of the black boxes themselves. so that's still an unknown. what's on those black boxes may not matter at this point. the ukrainian government has invited the u.s., dutch and malaysian officials to join the investigation, but so far access has been difficult due to ongoing fighting between russian separatists and the ukrainian army that's taking place in the area. so to clear the way, the white house released a statement thursday saying, quote, we urge all concerned, russia, the

pro-russian separatists and ukraine to support an immediate cease-fire in order to ensure safe and unfettered access to the crash site. now russia and germany have also called for a cease-fire. the ntsb is still deciding whether to send u.s. investigators to the scene. they say they are reluck toocta send a team into harm's way. president obama offered assistance when he spoke in delaware thursday. >> the united states will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. as a country, our thoughts and prayers are with all the families of the passengers, wherever they call home. >> here's what we know about the incident so far. the boeing 777 was traveling from amsterdam to kuala lumpur but was struck by a russian-made surface-to-air missile at about 33,000 feet. 283 passengers were on board along with 15 crew members. 80 of the passengers were children. the latest numbers show that the

majority of passengers were dutch but the list includes people from at least ten other countries. it's not clear if there were any americans on the plane. possibly there's folks with dual citizenship so it could take a while to identify the nationalities of everybody. the identities of four passengers are still completely unverified. the question u.s. intelligence is focusing on this morning is who's responsible for bringing the plane down. this morning the ukrainian defense ministry said it wasn't them. they said their military hadn't fired any missiles. russian separatists also deny firing the shot. but a conversation captured between a supposed russian major and a separatist named greek suggests a different story. [ speaking foreign language ] >> separatists called that audio unprofessional propaganda. we should also note that russian

president vladimir putin did not deny that separatists fired the missile, but instead he pointed the finger at ukraine saying this. this tragedy would not have happened if there were peace on this land, and certainly the state over whose territory this occurred bears responsibility for this awful tragedy. but boy, was that carefully worded by putin. back in the united states, lawmakers have been hesitant to link the crash to the separatists or to the russian government, which has been supporting them. >> it's too soon to draw any conclusions. i'm not going to speculate about who is responsible. >> what would be the appropriate action for the united states to take if in fact russia is responsible for this? >> i'm not even going there. >> we hope to have more information within the next day or so. if evidence emerges that russia was involved, that would obviously be extremely concerning. >> republican senator john mccain was the notable exception when it came to pointing

fingers. >> the separatists could have only gotten that capability from russia, and so, therefore, the culpable party here is vladimir putin. >> let's first go to keir simmons who is right now traveling by train to the crash site. he joins me now by phone. keir, i know that you're trying to gather as much information as you can when it comes to the crash site investigation. what do you know? >> reporter: you're right, we are heading to the train to try to get to the crash site and i guess the point is it's going to be a really difficult journey for us because we are going to a war zone and that's the difficulty that the investigators face because they are trying to get to the war zone. i mean it must be unprecedented to try to investigate a commercial airliner down in a situation like this. remember that on the ground as you have pointed out at the beginning of the show, on the ground you have pro-russian separatists who are in control of the area who have a stake in what the conclusion is of that

investigation and they are people who have in the past taken western independent investigators hostage. they have held them kidnapped during this conflict. so it is an incredibly difficult situation. there are even reports that the black box has been found by the rebels and that it's claimed they may be sending its moscow -- there's an unconfirmed report that they may be hoping to sell it to the highest bidder. there's lots and lots of that kind of stories flying around. it is always in eastern ukraine a very difficult place to operate. it will be so as they try to figure out what happened to this aircraft. >> difficult operation and throw in fog of war situations. keir simmons, stay safe as you get to the crash scene there, thanks very much. let me now go to jim maceda, by colleague in moscow with more. so vladimir putin, very carefully worded statement there, jim. clearly not yet denying that

this could have come from his allies, those separatists. >> reporter: that's right. and that's why he's a very clever man and that's why he survived 14 years now as the head of this extraordinarily complex country. he is very good at being two putins at once. he will deny, deny, deny that he has any connection, any influence on, any leverage over the surrogates, if you want to call them that, or pro-separatists but at the same time he will do everything he can behind the scenes to destabilize a country like ukraine. and he does that for very specific personal and national interests. chuck, i think we need to step back. i'm out of breath from what keir was getting into and reporting. i mean we're in a situation here where there are so many stories and counter stories. >> i know.

>> reporter: take a deep breath, let's take a deep breath and really we're not going to be any closer to knowing what happened to that malaysian airlines plane until the investigators analyze those infamous black boxes. and until then, it's all going to be conflicting reports and speculation. and what really worries some analysts that we have spoken to here is that putin will now try to lead any investigation into the crash, control those black boxes, and there are stories that he already has them or that as keir mentions that one rebel leader says they haven't been found and another rebel leader says they're under lock and key already here in moscow. just quickly as a reminder, chuck, that almost 300 human beings died on that plane. today here in moscow, we saw many people in the streets laying flowers, especially outside the malaysian and dutch embassies. almost 200 victims were dutch

and malaysian. it's still, as you said, unclear about whether there were americans on board. but we are hearing this. we're hearing up to 100 top hiv researchers were on that very same plane. they were heading to australia for a conference and the loss we understand has already shaken their profession. >> it really has shaken that scientific community absolutely. jim maceda, thanks very much. as we noted, u.s. officials have been hesitant to speculate the crash of mh-17 or what may have caused it. it was vice president biden who seemed to get out ahead of everyone, telling a crowd in detroit that the plane indeed had been shot down. >> a malaysian aircraft heading from western europe to kuala lumpur, as it crossed or was near the border of ukraine and russia apparently, i say apparently because i don't have the actual -- we don't have all the detail yet, i want to be sure of what i say, apparently had been shot down.

shot down, not an accident. blown out of the sky. >> well, that was not something that the u.s. government was ready to have released at that time. let me bring in chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. mik, at this point it's u.s. officials that seem to be confirming this at this pointing. nobody else has gone as far as joe biden has. >> reporter: that's right. but u.s. officials we're talking to are convinced that this airplane was brought down by one of these midrange buk surface-to-air missiles. buks are russian made and as a matter of fact the russian military has some of those systems on the border. they're confident because at 33,000 feet where the -- the altitude at which the plane was flying, there's no other missile in either the ukraine or the separatist or the russian military's arsenal there at the scene that could have possibly brought that plane down.

officials we're talking to have pretty much ruled out the ukrainians. they said they didn't even have those systems in that region. but one important issue is that intelligence over the past several weeks, u.s. intelligence, has watched as the russians have shipped heavy artillery, tanks and these buk missile systems into ukraine. there are reports that the russian military was also training the separatists in the use of those missiles. so when u.s. officials say, look, we don't know whether it was fired by the separatists or the russians, you know, it could possibly be that russian trainers were still at those missile sites with the separatists in ukraine. but that's all a mystery right now. the only thing they're certain of is that it was one of these surface-to-air missiles that brought down the plane. >> and, mik, they do know that they have shot other planes down over the last week. that's why they know they have been doing this over the last

week, correct? >> reporter: that's correct. they shot down a ukrainian cargo plane on monday. they also shot down, and it would take a missile like this to do that, to shoot down a ukrainian jet fighter so there's no question that the missile systems are there. in some respects people say, look, whoever pulled the trigger, it was still a russian missile system provided to the separatists by the russians and, therefore, making the russians and vladimir putin culpable. >> absolutely. jim miklaszewski at the pentagon, thanks very much. a couple of new developments to tell you about really quickly. we have confirmed, the fbi and ntsb have told us that they will send investigators to ukraine to assist in the investigation into the crash of mh-17. joining me now, nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell, and michael leiter, a former director of the national counterterrorism center and nbc national security

analyst. mike, let me start with you. this is your bailiwick here. is there any question that the russians -- that these russian separatists are behind this? >> we know exactly which team through the ball, we don't know which player did. russian system, russian weapon, did the russians actually fire it, were they assisting the separatists or did the separatists fire it. i think the overwhelming evidence is it's the separatists, but that is the piece now that the intelligence community is really digging into and that will come from the location of the missile, intercepted communications. i think it's more likely -- >> how much of a confirmation could happen today? >> i think this is actually not a really, really difficult intelligence problem. i think 24 to 48 hours we're getting a very good sense of where this came from and who did it. >> andrea, the white house wants to be cautious when they put the president out how much more new information he has because clearly between poroshenko and putin, they're both trying to use whatever they can to gain

leverage in this situation. but i did have a senior official tell me yesterday was a bad day for vladimir putin. a very bad day. >> it was a bad day for vladimir putin in every regard. now there's a question as to how strong are the europeans going to be. what will angela merkel do. merkel and cameron both spoke today, david cameron, the british prime minister. with so many europeans involved in this crash and this escalation, they cannot sit on their hands, they have got to do something. at the u.n. security council meeting now this afternoon scheduled, you know what russia is going to do. they're going to posture and veto. >> that's just providing us footage to put on tv. i'm sorry, because we know what's going to happen. >> and there's the security and cooperation in europe. their investigators had already been held hostage, had been kidnapped by separatists in crimea and eastern ukraine already. so they want to send people in, monitors on the ground, but there's nervous as anyone else would be about that situation. just a point about who actually

was responsible for this, the white house very late last night put out a statement saying, you know, that regardless of what the facts end up proving, this is all happening within the context of russian training, russian arms supply and russia now needs to -- >> it was almost the exact opposite -- it was like the mirror image of the statement putin put out. >> let's take it back a moment to poroshenko, obama and putin on d-day in normandy. that was the big day of the promise that we were going to de-escalate and there could be a cease-fire. for putin now to be saying let's have a cease-fire is the height of hypocrisy. >> i want to back up 48 hours. 48 hours ago, wednesday evening the president announces new sanctions against russia and a lot of the -- without european help this time. basically merkel and cameron were on board but france and italy were not. so the u.s. went alone. they wanted to try to get everybody on.

they went alone. this is one of those cases the europeans are going to feel as if, boy, they blew it here. >> they did blow it. it just says a lot about the weakness of europe. europe is a major economic power, an economic bloc, but they have yet to organize that 28-nation system into a coherent political or diplomatic bloc. >> they rely on russian economic interests and gas in a way we don't so it's harder for them to shut that off. there is no way this does not change the political -- >> this is a game changer in how this is and putin might actually back off, don't you think? >> that's now the harder intelligence problem. the intelligence problem isn't about who shot it, it's what will putin do. >> and very, very briefly, i think the argument for it being separatists using a russian system is the lack of command and control because this was the gang that couldn't shoot straight. >> it is. mike leiter, andrea mitchell, thank you very much. we'll have more on the u.s. involvement in the crash

investigation. anthony foxx joins me here live. we'll be right back. ♪ [music] defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. easily absorbed calcium plus d. beauty is bone deep.

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the shooting was pretty intense before that. i heard a lot of noise in the sky and heard several shots and a strong bang. >> translator: i was inside my house when i heard these two explosions. i ran out and saw black smoke everywhere. i thought that the house of my nephew was hit. i ran out and everything was just black, on fire. >> some eyewitnesses there. the white house is calling for a full, credible and unimpeded international investigation into the crash and is of course offering u.s. assistance. >> i offered president poroshenko the help of our expertise, our national transportation and safety group and other experts in the

community. he accepted that help and they will be on their way rapidly to see if we can get to the bottom of this. >> president obama called the leaders of ukraine, malaysia and the netherlands on thursday. in a statement the u.s. remains prepared to contribute immediate assistance to any international investigation, including through resources provided by the ntsb and the fbi. now, an osce advance team is headed to the crash site today to decide whether it's safe to bring in civilian experts. moments ago we learned from sources that the fbi and ntsb has decided to send investigators, at least to ukraine. not clear if they're going to go to the crash site yet. will they be safe? the former head of the ntsb told nbc she'd be reluctant to send any u.s. teams into the area. >> i would be very concerned if i was anyone sending my people in there that they need to be safe. >> transportation secretary anthony foxx joins me now.

mr. secretary, that safety question? >> well, it's obviously a very difficult situation, a horrible tragedy and one that is going to require international cooperation to figure out and get to the bottom of what happened. but we're obviously monitoring the situation on the ground and what you have in open sources is what's out there. >> so 18 hours so far and there's no major investigation at the crash site. every hour you lose access to this crash site, does the investigation become i don't want to say pointless, but extremely difficult? >> it's obviously a matter of concern and that's why last night the white house asked all the parties involved to calm the situation down, de-escalate and allow the international community to come in and do an investigation. we stand ready to help. >> the faa months ago put out -- told u.s. airliners don't fly over this region at all.

they already said don't go over crimea, but don't fly over this region. obviously the international version of the faa did not have those same warnings out there. can you explain how that works? the faa makes a decision. how often is it that these two entities don't put out the same warnings when it comes to airspace? >> well, the faa obviously has primary responsibility for the u.s. carriers, and we did issue a note several weeks ago prohibiting flights over the crimean region of ukraine. we've expanded that as of last night and we expect the international community will likely follow our lead there. >> is it safe to fly to europe? >> it's safe to fly to europe, absolutely. we always monitor the airspace for safety issues. we have issued nothing where we find conflict that will create

problems for commercial flyers. we did that very early. we expanded it last night and will continue monitoring the situation in the ukraine. >> originally you were coming on to talk about your own -- and it's one of those things people are -- you know, about the highway. i want to ask you quickly about the highway bill. were you surprised that congress did what they did as fast as they did? >> well, we're in a ditch and we're about to see the highway trust fund go off the cliff. under emergency circumstances, the house has passed a short-term patch that gets us through next may which ironically is the beginning of the next construction season. if we find ourselves on groundhog day, it's going to be a problem so we want them to move well ahead of next may. >> do you find this is a political punt? >> it is a punt. it's the 19th continuing resolution we've had in the last five years and our system is really falling apart at the seams because we don't have a long-term approach. >> secretary foxx, i appreciate your time. it's been quite the busy 24

hours for you. the route that malaysia airlines flight 17 flew is so popular when going from europe to asia, it has a name. it's called airway l-980. it's a key pathway to europe and asia, but by late thursday the airspace over eastern ukraine was empty. for more on this investigation i want to bring in greg feith, a former ntsb investigator and former airline captain haeger and safety expert john cox and nbc's long-time aviation correspondent, bob haeger. hello to all of you. greg, i want to start with you. is there any -- what are we going to learn from this crash site at this point? i've just had a former senior official say to me the investigation on the ground might be pointless at this point. >> absolutely, chuck. i'm very surprised at the fact that the ntsb would send anybody over there under these circumstances.

we know what brought the aircraft down, there really is no investigation. this is not the conventional investigation that an ntsb would conduct where we're looking for a mechanical malfunction or failure of the aircraft or pilot operation. we know what brought it down, so the expertise that the ntsb is going to bring to this investigation is really pointless because it is more of a criminal act and so the fbi and the national security folks are really the ones that are going to be key to looking at who shot the aircraft down and what the intent was. >> greg, i know you said this in some previous interviews, the black boxes, you know, there's this back and forth, who's got the black boxes, have they been found. and your attitude is so what, there's nothing on them. >> exactly. we've learned from the past, especially with twa 800 and pan am 103 and a variety of other accidents that in this type of event where you have a missile that either strikes the aircraft or exploded in close proximity

and really rendered the airplane incapacitated, once the electrical system goes out both those boxes stop. so you're going to have normal information on the flight data recorder, possibly some crew conversation about a lot of things that may not be anywhere related to this event because they didn't know that the event was about to take place. the airplane is damaged, the boxes stop recording. so there's really no telltale evidence that you can turn to and say this is what happened after the missile struck the aircraft or at least exploded in close proximity. >> john cox, i'm just curious, if you could get to the crash site unfettered and you felt like it was safe, what would you at least like to try to find out? >> well, i think a couple of things. the forensic analysis can provide things such as identification of the metal which will have high energy particles from the missile and that will absolutely confirm the type of explosive used.

this is this methodology that was used in the pan am lockerbie bombing and it was very effective so i think there is a need for this to put closure. the safety of the investigators has got to be paramount, but if we can get over that single hurdle, i think it's appropriate to have the investigators take a look to give the objectivity of international review and to get what forensic evidence there was. we may be able to get data off of the recorders. they may have some indication of the amount of damage that was done. and all of this will go into the entire -- bringing the entire story forward for the world to see. >> right. which is part of a -- almost making a case that the united states wants to have with evidence to back them up. bob haeger, i want you to -- i assume you're having flashbacks to what happened in a story that you covered thoroughy for this network, the korean airliner that was shot down by the

soviets back in 1983. similarities and differences and what is it that you remember the difficulties of getting information out of the soviets then versus what we're going to expect now. >> much of the same issues at stake here. interesting you're talking about the black boxes. i remember there was this race to get to the black boxes in the case of the shootdown by the soviets. they were in the sea up north of japan and the question is who could get to them first. the soviets got to them first and we didn't hear or see anything of those black boxes for years or maybe a decade or more. generally the issue here is who fired the missile. and to find that out, i mean you're really talking about spy satellite imagery, infrared imagery and so forth. it will be interesting how much of that the u.s. has and is prepared to lay out for the rest of the world to see as this

investigation goes along. there's more of that kind of an investigation than your traditional aircraft accident investigation. >> and would you -- you remember going in there trying to see different ways to investigate. at least there was some idea that it would be safe to go there. it looks like we lost one of our shots there. but the safety concerns, bob, of sending folks in. at this point do you think ntsb is making a mistake? >> i don't know what value they're going to be there on the scene. i agree with greg. examining the wreckage, maybe you can find some pieces of the missile or something like that. you might get some information from the black boxes. but the real investigation is not so much at the scene, it's again the trajectory of that missile, where it came from and then the super question, who fired it. >> greg feith, john cox, bob hager, thanks to all of you. up next, another major story that we're following.

it's israel escalating the middle east crisis with a ground incursion in gaza. plus much more on the plane crash investigation and how this tragedy could change the russian-ukraine confrontation that has been playing out for months. over 20 million kids everyday in our country lack access to healthy food. for the first time american kids are slated to live a shorter life span than their parents. it's a problem that we can turn around and change. revolution foods is a company we started to provide access to healthy, affordable, kid-inspired, chef-crafted food. we looked at what are the aspects of food that will help set up kids for success? making sure foods are made with high quality ingredients and prepared fresh everyday. our collaboration with citi has helped us really accelerate the expansion of our business in terms of how many communities we can serve. working with citi has also helped to fuel our innovation process and the speed at which we can bring new products into the grocery stores.

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israel escalating its ground offensive in the mideast crisis. new details next live from gaza, plus a look at russia's role in this crash of malaysian flight 17 in ukraine. we'll be right back. the blisters and the pain in my scalp area and down the back of my neck was intense. it would have been virtually impossible in that confined space with the rash to move to change radio frequencies. i would just stop and literally freeze up. i mean it hurt. i couldn't even get up and drive let alone teach somebody and be responsible in an airplane. when my doctor told me that shingles came from the chickenpox virus i was very surprised.

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israeli soldier have already been killed, but the number of casualties could grow rapidly. the idf tells nbc that it has struck around 150 targets in gaza since midnight local time, including tunnels and rocket launchers. hamas has fired more than 60 rockets. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said that he opted for the ground invasion after exhausting all other options. this morning he said he has ordered the military to prepare for a significant expansion of the operation. that could include more troops on the ground. israel has approved the mobilization of 18,000 more israeli forces on top of the 48,000 that have already been authorized. israel appears to be focused on destroying tunnels that hamas uses to infiltrate israeli territory as well as their rocket launchers. a hamas spokesman says netanyahu is killing our children and will pay the price. richard engel joins me by phone. boy, 24 hours ago you and i were talking about the possibility of a cease-fire. you were skeptical.

obviously your skepticism was warranted in this case. is this the beginning of the end? is that what israel is trying to force here? or is this a way to punish hamas for not taking the truce? >> reporter: well, i think this is the beginning of the start of this phase and i think israel wants to not only punish hamas for not taking the deal, it also wants to punish hamas and try to embarrass hamas in front of the palestinian people to create some sort of wedge between hamas and the palestinians to show the palestinians here in gaza that you voted for hamas, you wanted hamas and now as a result, you've had three destructive wars in the gaza strip over the last six years or so. that's the logic being thought of in tel aviv. the problem is here where i am in gaza city, and i'm on the phone because i have been walking around the streets all day today and the streets are

empty and i'm now in one of the few refugee shelters where people from around gaza are spending the night. they're trying to find some safety and sanctuary. every time there are attacks, they don't blame hamas, they blame the israelis and believe that the israelis are the aggressors here. whether once this emotional phase settles in people will turn more against hamas remains to be seen. hamas is not incredibly popular in the gaza strip, but every time there are casualties, it does see a short-term spike in people's aggressive and patriotic feelings and their desire to fight back. >> all right, richard engel right now in gaza city. richard, thanks very much. joining me now bobby ghosh and of course my colleague joining me again, andrea mitchell, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent. andrea, let's go to this. yesterday there was an assumption that things would get

violent, even if it was going to be right before a temporary cease-fire or a truce because israel usually wants to try to set hamas back militarily, but this is not that. this is something more. >> this is israel pressure internally on netanyahu who was the one resisting taking more aggressive action. >> i had somebody describe to me this is local politics for him. he felt like he had to do this for his own politics. >> exactly. the rocket fire coming from gaza, even though from an international perspective the asymmetry of the death toll is so dramatic. 260 some palestinian deaths now and 2 israelis, that one soldier last night and the previous casualty. but that said, serinternally in israel people are living in bomb shelters and sustaining relentless rocket fire. israel doesn't have a handle as

they used to when they had better ground troops so their feeling is they have to go in. they're not going into the urban areas, as richard was pointing out, but they have to go in and get those tunnels. >> bobby, i said this the other day to another colleague and i say it again today. correct me if i'm wrong, mahmoud abbas is supposedly the president of all the palestinian people at this point. is he -- where is he? i feel like he's been missing in action. >> that's an excellent question. that's the person we've been hearing least from. we've heard very little from the palestinian government at all and it's worth keeping in mind that hamas is supposedly a part of his coalition now. >> right. all working together. >> but unfortunately when it comes to with israel in the eyes of many palestinians, he doesn't really have a whole lot of credibility because he's working with the palestinians -- i beg your pardon, with the israelis and so i think he's sort of trying to keep himself out of this because he knows that he doesn't have a whole lot of

credibility. he doesn't have the ability to move the needle one way or the other. he has no influence over the israelis. he has no influence, not very much influence over hamas. if he were to stand up now and speak, all he could offer are words and the palestinians have had quite enough of those. >> and in fact, bobby, and chuck, he's been in cairo at these abortive cease-fire talks. >> interesting. >> so he was dealing with alsisi and so the landscape has changed so dramatically. >> bobby, the other thing about -- is egypt even the right player here? is qatar now the better mediator here between hamas and israel? >> qatar has been offering for a while. they offered some time ago to pay the salaries for the government officials in hamas, which is one of the many points of friction between israel and hamas now. but it was rejected. its offers were rejected mostly by the israelis.

we'll have to see whether the qataris have offered again. now the fact that they haven't brokered a cease-fire, the u.s. doesn't have much of a role here. perhaps israelis will turn to qatar, but only after this ground offensive. >> it sounds like the united states quietly is opening the israelis will be open to the qatar offer. >> and to istanbul. >> andrea mitchell, bobby ghosh, what a crazy 24 hours, thank you both. more ahead on the malaysian plane crash and how this tragedy could, could change the calculus in this standoff between russia and ukraine. we'll be right back. opausal cha. the problem isn't likely to go away... ...on its own. so it's time we do something about it. and there's help. premarin vaginal cream. a prescription that does what no over-the-counter product was designed to do. it provides estrogens to help rebuild vaginal tissue and make intercourse more comfortable. premarin vaginal cream treats vaginal changes due to

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we just learned we will hear from the president later this morning. he'll deliver a statement on the situation in ukraine at 11: 30. stay with msnbc for live coverage. joining me live now about the situation. joining me on the phone an nbc contributor and former ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. ambassador, let me start with you. is this the game-changer here to rally europe in a tougher way against putin? >> it most certainly should be. i think this is made clear that this is a serious conflict in europe that has consequences for not just the people in eastern ukraine but all of europe and all the world.

of course, weapon don don't knoe facts. we need an investigation to know what happened and who did this, but if the leading hypothesis, as i would say, which is that the ukrainian rebels did this proves to be true, then there has to be a much greater and more wide spread action response from the west. >> and it seems to be that there was a -- as ukraine -- as the new ukraine government was taking advances to take control over of the situation in the last couple of weeks putin didn't like that and suddenly escaladed things again. is that your read on the situation that this was his response to the ukrainian government flexing its own muscle? >> yeah, but it's a confused response. i mean, you know, throughout the whole crisis, we keep hearing about what a grand strategies putin is.

i see it very differently. i see he doesn't know what he wants to do in eastern ukraine and comes in, comes out, kind of wants to bubble at some kind of low level. what will be interesting, you know, it's a horrible tragedy. there's no way for him to defend this and blame the ukraine government has been his first response. but just today he finally said, you know, there needs to be a ceasefire and there needs to be an negotiation. maybe this might be just the kind of wake-up call for him to say there's no good options for him moving forward. maybe he needs to pull back. i think that's a low probability, but it might happen as a result of the terrible tragedy. >> all right, ambassador, i appreciate that. i know, you're joining us on the phone. let me turn to michael weiss here. it seems if the united states out the tragedy they see a small opportunity here to tighten things up.

>> yeah, i think that's right. two days ago, the u.s. government passed ways to date the most devastating sanctions against russia. not secretarial sanctions but they hit two major banks and the state-owned oil company. i think what it's going to do now, again, it depends on european union if they follow suit. i think that could be severe. look, i disagree with ambassador mcfall on this. i think putin has a clear strategy. the clear strategy is keep ukraine away from the european, pro-european and pro-american. nato said we're not interested in having ukraine join. it's about ukraine being a sovereign, independent country with its own political and moral agency which can make the own decisions without pulleying from the next door neighbor. it looks as though it was a

terrible accident. they didn't try to hit a commercial airliner. if it it's not the sort of hinge moment in this crisis for russia and the separatists. >> quickly, general mccaffrey, the united states' response is sanctions enough? >> i think it's primarily a european problem. it's a localized conflict. it's not going to end. i think michael has it entirely right. there's going to be a giant struggle for the cities of eastern ukraine. these are russian people that live there. i've, in and out of the region and there's clearly a difference in view of the national central government. so we have a huge problem. putin is ham fisted. he's using deception operations that might have worked in world war ii but don't work in a modern era. he's blundering around. it's a bloody conflict. we need to be limited in our response. there's no military, u.s.

military component to deal with this. >> right. is there a way to offer him an exit ramp? >> may well be. richard haas keeps talking about a political dynamic at the end of the day. it's hard to know how the ukraine government executes sovereign control. i can't imagine it happening. that's some negotiation where they start talk and stop fighting. >> general, michael. thank you. general mccaffrey we'll see more of you throughout the day. president obama will be speaking at 11: 30. see you down at the white house. jose dìas-balart continue ths o coverage.

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good morning, i'm jose dìas-balart. we learned the president will

make a statement at 11: 30 eastern on the plane that was shot down over ukraine. that, that is our first focus today. we've learned that the fbi and the ntsb will send investigators to ukraine to assist in the investigation. that's coming us from two senior administration officials. the grim recovery effort is underway right now where all 298 people aboard malaysian airlines fight were killed in surface to air missile strike. 181 bodies have been recovered so far. the big question this morning, who fired the missile? the ukrainians and the russian government deny shoot douk the passenger plane which was heading to cu--