investigators back to the debris field to analyze is scene, starting about an hour from now, if they keep to their word, but there's no reason to think they will. the efforts to investigate so far, let alone the efforts to get those bodies out of the field, those efforts have been complicated, but they are to resume shortly and we're going to continue our coverage tonight. stay with us. now, it's time for the last word. good evening. >> thank you very much, rachel. we are live tonight with the special edition of the last word with the latest on the downing of that flight 17 and reports from day two of the ground innovation of gaza. two of the biggest stories in the world today and that's why you've seen, nearly every newspaper on earth put flight 17 on the front page expect for one. >> two major stories. >> yesterday, we were all shocked by the downing of malaysian airlines flight 17. >> mh 17 took off from

amsterdam. it was shot down. >> downed by a surface to air missile, an sa11. >> who was operating it? pro russian separatists. >> it is unlikely the separatists could operate the system without assistance. >> the world is watching. >> on our other major story of the day, another foreign policy crisis half a world away. >> gaza city, israel's ground n invasion of gaza. >> our goal is to same to sustain peace to the people of israel. >> rockets being fired. >> which is claimed the lives of 25 palestinians and one israeli soldier. >> leaving parents and families. >> parents are mourning the victims of malaysian airlines flight 17. >> the search begins for answers and accountability.

many countries followed reports on the flight closely today. it was on the front page of just about every paper, but this was on the front page of russia's famous newspaper. does include a report on the disaster, but just like putin's response, that story attempts the shift the blame to the ukrainian government. there's a bizarre op-ed in there asking for -- eliminating from russia and many national security experts. some of the dangerous game to be proxy fighters. >> my concern is obviously that there's been a lot of misinformation generated in

eastern ukraine generally. this should snap everybody's heads to attention and make sure that we don't have time for propaganda or games. we need to know what happened and everybody needs to make sure we're holding accountable those who committed the outrage. >> many questions remain. many sources say the plane was brought down by a surface to air missile fired by russian backed separatists or potentially russian personnel themselves. the u.n. security counsel held a meeting today where u.s. ambassador samantha power, through a direct line back to russia. >> we assess flight 17 carrying these 298 people from amsterdam to kuala lumpur was likely downed by a surface to air

missi missile. operated from a separatist held location in eastern ukraine. because of the technical com complexity, it is unlikely the separatists could have operated the system without personnel. thus, we cannot rule out russian personnel. >> however, russia's foreign minister said quote, regarding those claims from kiev that we allegedly did it ourselves, i have not heard a truthful statement from kiev for months. it's been a tense scene, you can see there at the debris field in eastern ukraine today and this is the second night of the bodies of the victims remain on the ground. pro russian rebels who control the area are only giving limited access to people trying to remove those bodies and passenger's belongings. there are reports the crash site has been looted. vladimir putin urged all sides should halt their fighting and enter into peaceful talks, but

about 20 civilians were killed in more fighting about 60 miles from the search. there are concerns over where the flight data and voice recorders have been recovered and properly processed. joining me now, william taylor and robert haguer. good evening to you both. >> good evening. >> bob, let's start with this kind of investigation. you know a lot about this. disputes about getting those black boxes and processing the material and the bodies o transportation dpround. what is the space between how this investigation should look and what's happeninging on the ground near the crash site? >> if it were a normal investigation, it would be well underway with the examination and the wreckage and presumably, the black boxes and begin to send them to a lab and read them out. having said that, they're not the most vital part of this investigation. i don't know how much we're

going to learn, but we could learn something. maybe the pilot, of the downed plane saw them and so approached the plane, we can't tell. and in the wreckage, it would be valuable to look at it, see if there are explosives, but with all the rest of the talk about how we seem to be so positive, that really doesn't seem to be a question that needs to be solved ultimately by looking at wreckage on the ground. >> right and that question goes to what ukraine has been doing, which is putting out information for its side of the story, blaming the russian separatists or as the president said, russian personnel overseeing it. walk us through how to distinguish what ukraine is saying that's in their interest and conflict with putin and what they put out that is credible evidence for the international community to understand what happened to this flight. >> well, i think we have to look

at if who is putting out what kind of information. statement by the government. in russia, there is no real press. mr. putin is able to say things, mr. lavrov, we find untrue. we just recall how mr. putin said there were no russian -- so, the difference is clear between a country where there is free press and where country, there is no free press and the ukrainians have a press that can dig into these questions and can identify troops and the russians don't. >> and part of the argument made by president obama today was logical and circumstantial in blaming the russias and talking

about what separatists can do. they can't just shoot down transport planes. >> a group of separatists can't shoot down military transport planes or they claim shoot down fighter jets without sophisticated equipment and training and that is coming from russia. >> in terms of the diplomatic peace and getting europe on board, is that argument enough to carry the day? >> i think it will be. i think the europeans have tried to avoid this problem. they have economic interests and other interests that have kept them from assigning blame and taking real steps to deter mr. putin. against ukraine. the europeans have not wanted to take these steps. americans have been following.

europeans now have -- >> when you look at this happening, the u.s. hasn't put a lot of people on the ground. a handful of folks. why do you think that is? >> those professionals, particularly the ntsb, they don't look at themselves as people who investigate criminal acts. when they thought it was a mi missile that crashed down the coast of long island, when they thought initially it might have been a missile or bomb, turn it over to the fbi. that's been the tradition. the state took -- some years back. 1980s. so, i think their attitude is boy, when it comes to shooting a

plane down with a missile, this is not our ball game. we know about planes and mechanical systems, but this other stuff, i think that's what the -- >> right, so that it's almost a category issue of when they're triggering and when they pull back. when you look at the days ahead and putin playing a very dangerous game here, how do you decode as we mentioned the w way -- high lly bellicose in tryinging to blame the ukraine. >> we can't rule out any problems. we understand that are reasonable, who would have

predicted in this century, that russia or their border. i think there is an opportunity who wants to take it to distance himself to the separatists in ukraine and people have clearly trained them as -- training and he can back down from that. the other big thing he can do is seal the border. >> like that would be the one silver lining to what all geopolitics. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. >> coming up, we are going to talk more about that question,

the putin factor. why we looks bad and why that might be good for the united states and also, the other big story. it is just about 5:00 a.m. in gaza. we'll hear from reporters in gaza. veggies you're cool... reworking the menu. mayo, corn dogs...you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals. 9 grams of protein... with 30% less sugars than before.

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the intense outcry over the downing of malaysian airlines flight 17 is releasing

consequences and among many nations who believe that he was an accomplice. many believe the missile that was launched from an area controlled by separatists would make russia more culpable. putin said quote, this tragedy would not have happened if military operations of the government of the territory of which it happened bears responsibility. that antagonized many. he used an appearance to call for peace talks, but as he called for piece, the russian military was participating in exercises that emphasized their country's air power.

he did say the ongoing violence in ukraine would not be happening without the supreme court of one country. >> we know they are heavily armed and trained and we know that that's not an accident. that it's happening because of russian support. a group of separatists can't -- without sophisticated training and that is coming from russia. >> president obama blames russia for today's instability and while most leaders share president obama's assessment, it looks like the only person who agrees with putin now is vladimir putin. joining me now, michael weiss and contributor for the daily beast and fellow at the foreign policy initiative, james. how isolated is putin and does

it matter? >> i'd say he's pretty isolated. it's too soon to tell. we haven't seen increased support and we haven't seen support from the administration in washington for these sanctions. so, i think it's too soon to tell just how isolated hess on an international stage. >> he says for months, putin has been playing with fire, making trouble and having it work to his advantage, but the whole thing blew up in his face. the acceseparatists by someone controls nuclear weapons who are in a way more threatened. is this whole thing lands by mistake, essential ly, how scar

is that? >> hugely scary. what worries the most is i would call the movement a wholly owned, but not subsidiary. an agent to the russian -- sanctions, today, he came out and said heavy material, tanks, he said this is critique of putin himself. he said remember what happened to ma los vick in the balkans. to make that kind of a provocation, especially coming from a russian spy and a vast

arsonal means there needs to be a break away faction if you see what i mean. remains to be scene. >> we say this is a dictator ship anyway, he's all in charge, but has done a lot of this to increase his standing and protect his right flank in russia and has that kind of political games man ship and left it out of control as it all spirals here. >> i saw a poll today his rightings are higher than they have been be in a long time. that's why i think he started in the first place.

the calculation is driving him, is to keep himself and his regime in power and having a democratic ukraine that's sovereign and wants to be part of the west. he is going to continue to do, maintain it's frankly up to european leader to respond to this. >> there's almost an informational piece of this, where the response from the lead es, and whether they are showing what happened here. >> most vulnerable in russia, stolen money from the russian taxpayer and investing of it in urm. europe. this is where europe can play a crucial role.

they are the money laundering content. hitting the ruble means the currency. europe has to step up and realize that was a european flight, okay. malaysian airlines, but leaving from amsterdam, full of europeans, blown up in the sigh. they have to take command. in the horrid feted relationship is economic interdependence. >> this picture that's been going around dramatically, they're flanked on the screen by so some. >> number one, they provented

monitors. number two, there are reports they were looting, personal belongings of the victims of the crash and three, they were apparently removing 30 or so corpses. this site is contaminated. we don't know where the black box is. it could be in russia. if it's in russia, the idea that they will corporate when the polish government, most of the polish government, their plane, crashed in russian territory in 2012, the remnants of the flight has yet to be returned to the polish government, so that gives you an indication. thank you very much for joining us here on our special kovrnl

and coming up, the latest as day three of that ground offensive in gaza begins. we'll bring it to you with reporting from the region. jooix y. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov for over 19 million people. [ susan ] my promotion allowed me to start investing for my retirement. transamerica made it easy. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. transamerica. transform tomorrow. transamerica. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms.

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. about 1600 rockets sent into

israel since this round began july 8th. the government says are used by hamas militants to cross the border into israel. now, tonight, chris hayes put a key question to mark regularen. >> how long will israel will forces be in gaza? >> as long as it takes. ultimately, if you can tell me that tomorrow, the civilian p population of israel can leave safely, they can leave tomorrow. >> that statement coming tomorrow night. that's the center of obama administration has urgently called for, but in gaza, estimates of the death toll are about 2300. the death toll includes more than 50 children. john kerry and ban ki-moon are

in route to the region. >> it is not self-defense. it is aven-- perpetrated by the occupying power. >> each and every -- constitutes a crime against humanity where it hits or misses because it's directed at civilian targets. i hope the palestinian delegate will remember that. this isn't what we wanted. we've sent our children, sons and daughters, to face an enemy who lives by violence and celebrating to be clear, our forces are fighting in gaza, but they're not fighting the people of gaza. >> our live coverage begins in gaza city. caroline cole, a former journalist for the "los angeles times" joins us by phone. what are you seeing at this

point? >> it's too early now. the sun's just coming up. it's 5:30 in the morning. i heard some rockets being fired about 4:00 a.m., but so far, i haven't been outside. >> what about in the photos in the reporting you were doing before nightfall and we're showing some of those earlier photos you've taken. speak if you will, your own observations of whether it feels precise and whether civilians will are able to stay safe in any way and stay out of the way. >> well, on thursday and soon after that, i heard a loud explosion, so i went directly to the gaza city hospital. i believe the photo you're referring to is children in the morgue. four children brought in wrapped in sheets. there on thursday. all were hit in one rocket

attack. very distressed family members were coming in to view the bodies. this has been a common theme in the last few days. that happened before, the day before that. sometimes, the rockets seem like they are you know, very targeted and other times, they don't. so, yesterday, i always witnessed a building that was targeted, a pharmacy where the israeli army called in advanced warning and people knew that the building was going to blow up. people stood around and watched and even a warning explosion happened, so they knew when the incoming, but in most instance, it's been you know, there's just been a lot of victims coming into the hospital. >> all right, carolyn cole of the los angeles times, thank you for sharing. we are going to go to tel aviv.

good morning to you there in tel aviv time. >> israelis at this point are wondering when this is going to go. at various times to bring hamas to its needs to end it entirely. various other members have said they're going to end rocket fire, but israel's military said that's not entirely possible and needs to lower their expeck tases. it's focusing on the tunnels. they're trying to dismantle that network and aside from doing that, hasn't made any other promises. >> prime minister netanyahu has faced domestic criticism within israel for waiting in terms of how long he began this

counteroffensive and waiting as hamas basically declined some of the cease fire offers, although they claimed that israel hasn't really supported them. has this now xooquieted those criticisms of netanyahu's approach? >> prime minister always going to have a little peace, but israeli visions have said that's probably only temporary. the knives are out for netanyahu from some of his closest partners. people like lieberman and bennett. those are right wing ministers in netanyahu's party. they're going the use this against netanyahu. saying to the israeli public, he promised us no more wars with hamas and did he deliver. >> thank you for joining us here early in the morning your time and now, we turn back to ambassador william taylor. thanks for rejoining us and

people know you as your work for the ukraine, but you've done work with the quartet. what is your assessment here. >> they've set more reasonable goals. as you've reported, it's the tunnels. that means they don't have to go far into gaza. the palestinians who live close to the border can evacuate and get out of the way of the military action, so, it is somewhat less intense than some of the previous. >> does anyone expect the united states to have a big impact here right now? the entire obama era has not

seen diplomats make headway on this issue. >> they don't have they don't have leverage on this issue, that the united states has spent a lot of time, effort and jrnlg on trying to help the negotiation. that has stalled as they have stalled, the violence has risen. we've seen instances where they've been able to negotiate in the presence of the quartet and come to some agreements on some of the smaller issues. these are the big issues that are now facing the israelis and palestinians. but that's what it's going take.

thanks again for being with us tonight. >> coming up, why were there any commercial flights usinging that ukrainian air space? a lot of people asking that committee and who determines these flight plans? robert haguer joins us, next. i'm m-a-r-y and i have copd.

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join the nation. nationwide is on your side. the u.s., iran and five countries negotiating have agreed to a four-month extension of those talks. john kerry said to turn our back on efforts have been made would deny ourselves the able ility t achieve objectives peacefully. while we've made clear no clear is better than a bad deal, the real prospect of reaching a real agreement necessitates that we need more time. the u.s. will continue to suspend some sanctions as part of this and iran has agreed to dilute the remainder. up next, we're going to talk about the danger when you go in

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welcome back. in the wake of this tragic crash, there's a big question many are asking. why was this jet flying over a a war zone in the first place? it took off just after local time, in the air for three hours and was shot down by what authorities believe was a surface to air missile. nbc news reports that flight 17 was just 31 miles from the russian border when it went down. the route it was taken was known as airway l980, a highway in the sky connecting europe and asia. the conflict around crimea was no secret. before the crash, the faa

restricted american flights from flyi ining over the region. you can see here's another look at the route. flight 17 took out amsterdam lost contact in eastern ukraine. in hindsight, that route may look look a bad idea or wreckless, but on this thursday alone, 55 other flights took that path. british airways, lufstansa have used that. when something this terrible happens, which is rare, how do we know if governments are doing everything they can to protect us when we fly. joining me now is bob haguer.

should something change here? zpl i think that should. i think ths one thing that will dom out of this is that the international communities realizes they need to deal with this. it's an economic issue and you've got to negotiate flight rights with the other countries that you're going to go through. they're thinking was no flight had gone that high, but sort of follows the leader. i think it's got to stop. >> you say they're getting away with it, making money off a certain bet. quote, malaysian airlines chose the most direct and economic flight route possible, which keeps fuel costs down. as customers, they were no different from any other airline.

there is that aspect that what's everyone doing? >> mob psychologicy. is able to charge less for his ticket, so, if you have some international organization such as the international civil aviation authority up in montreal, the united nations headquarters for supervising aviation, if they say, okay, now, everybody should not fly to this place, then it makes it easier for each airline to say we're going to do it. >> you're putting your finger on something so important, which is why regulations can be helpful by setting a standard. let me read what qantas airline said. you can use the reality of a policeman who can't tell you when the cross the road. it's up to the individual in the case of airlines to make that

assessment. that's sort of the business perspective there. my problem with that is, you get put in that, they worry about danger, dying, we have to trust. >> i believe this has to change and i believe it will. when we were are researching this, this flight was also going to pass over you can see this up on the screen, iran and afghanistan on its way to kuala lumpur and it's reported a lot of commercial flights go over afghanistan. >> it's interesting how they've been going all over afghanistan at this time, but what you have is two planes had been shot down, about a week before this. so, there's warning that things are not normal in this area.

exactly. lawrence was talking about that earlier this week. that there was this predicate of the shots. i want to mention the numbers here, we look at the bad news. it's one in 97, your chance of death in a lifetime and 1 in 7 ir, 178 in a plane. yet, the larger contest, it's one of the safest ways to get around. >> do you know that statistic has gotten remarkably better and over the time i was in aviation reporter, it was night and day when i began and there would be one of two major crashes in the u.s. a year. years go by now without a major crash. >> appreciate that. always nice to see you. thanks for joining us. coming up, what former president bill clinton had to say this is new about the escalation in israel. your site gave me this "credit report card" thing.

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israel's incursion and day 12 of the conflict between gaza and israel. israel reported its first military casualty. there's an open question on palestinians will focus here on or some degree to hamas, which has escalated the conflict up to this point. in an interview with mdtv, president clinton warned they can have a strategic east ridge pi altering the conditions that endanger palestinian civilians. >> over the long run, it's not good for israel to keep isola isolating itself from world opinion because of the peace process, but in the short and median term, hamas can inflict horrible damage on israel by forcing israel to kill palestinian civilians to counter hamas. but it's a crass strategy.

that takes our eyes off the real objective and a peace that gets the palestinians their state. >> hamas reached what many would call the height of its political power in 2006 when it won 76 of 132 seats six years later. fatah claimed the victory. today, the legitimacy is a matter of intense debate under palestinians and arab states alike. joining me now is president and founder of the american task force on palestine. thanks for being with me tonight. >> thank you. >> we talked a lot in the news about the conflict between, certainly reported on that all day and this evening on msnbc. we want to talk to you about hamas' standing here, specifically as this incursion

continues within gaza. your thoughts. >> well, i think it's fair to say that the long er that the incursion lasts and the longer the victims pile up and pictures and destruction, the more ham hamas -- and standing up like david and go lithe, but at the same time, support in gaza, who are paying the price for the war with israel, so, it is a balance that hamas has to think of and i think it is a long standing issue with hamas. it's fortunes inversely related to the fortunes of the plo. the plo is moderate, pa's moderate, wants to make a deal, negotiate a way out. when they fail to accomplish

anything or to deliver to the public, then folks who claim resistance like hamas, then appear more appealing to the public and they would just talk about delivering through confrontation. >> they say they're focused on tunnels and objectives relating to military threat. we had a report earlier saying in some instances, she saw warning shots fired, allowing people to exit. the pamphlets that have been distributed and yet, the complaint yet again is that simp shizers, you have civilians dying, children dying in numbers no way comparable to what's happened inside israel. >> only two people died inside of israel and 240, more than that. in palestine. what despite the repeated

statements that are made on behalf of israel that they're trying to exercise caution and have to take their word for it, the end result is that there are these deaths, these pictures and especially devastates for israel from a pr point of view. of the children. and families. and they just happen to have four or five members of a family all together dying at the same time. pictures, reporters in the area. so, i not expect the words will cover for the damage done and this is a, i will say that good part of the outcome of this whole conflict, how it's settled, what conditions that would lead to a cease fire, would depend on the perception of israel as a ruthless intruder

here and killing children or as hamas, as a defiance and with hamas reusing to take a cease fire deal here more blame by them look at this damage. there is no question that everybody knows hamas is the one who said no to the cease fire. and any deaths from now on have answer to explain why it has allowed this to go on to cause more deaths, so there is in vel nerability.

it is are a muted enthusiasm for this war and war in general. usually, if they are between the palestinians and israelis, everybody across the brand is routing for the identifying with their killing. >> why do you think it's different this time? >> i think part of it is this rejection of the compromise and the other part is there is a sense we've been there before. this is the third time in six years and we'll go back to the same position having more sacrifices and victories. >> that's a question that is going to continue as we follow this conflict. thanks for joining us, you get tonight's last word. >> thank you. >> at home, you have been watching msnbc's special international coverage. you can reach me at ari. lawrence will be back at 10:00 p.m. our live coverage of these events will pick up tomorrow at 7:00 a.m.

thank you for joining us tonight. on the ground! >> no way to handle the situation in here. you've got to fight. >> she got a broken eye socket. i put her in the infirmary for eight days. >> yes, i love that. >> i chased after a court officer. they said i hit one and kicked one and spit on him. >> for those inmates all too willing to throw a punch -- the jail has a special place. >> the box. >> the box. >> separated from everything. so you learn to deal with it. it's called the box life.