and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion.

you just hope that none of the children will go before you. and now it has happened. >> so many questions, still so few answers about who shot down malaysia flight mh-17, and a back and forth on whether investigators are being allowed to the scene itself. we'll have the very latest. rocket shelling battles, and an operation rages on in gaza. crisis on the border. president obama is set to meet with the presidents of guatemala, honduras and el salvad salvador. how will this impact thousands of undocumented ingrants. i'm richard lui in for craig melvin on this saturday. we're going to get right to those fast-moving developments

in the crash of malaysia airlines. by all accounts at this moment, it is a crime scene in chaos. investigators have brief access to that site today, but armed pro-russian separatists did not let them stay very long. many bodies of the people onboard the plane have now been exposed to the elements for more than 48 hours. and today, pressure is growing for a full open and international investigation of that situation. secretary of state john kerry speaking with his russian counterpart earlier today by phone, among other things, the two men agreeing that all evidence from the crash should be made available for an international investigation. nbc's keir simmons has made his way to the crash site, just getting there within recent hours. he joins us live via phone. keir, what did you learn in the last couple of hours? >> reporter: richard, let me just say at the outset that we're driving pretty quickly through what is right now a relatively peaceful war zone, so you can imagine i'm on a phone and we may hit a check point, an armed check point, at which case

i'll have to go. but what we're doing is driving back from that crash site, and what we witnessed was the bodies of victims being loaded on to the back of military vehicles, and then being driven away to where we don't know. we did try to speak to the drivers, where are you taking the bodies. he said, i don't know. whether he's being honest or not, we don't know ourselves. who was driving the vehicles, that is the russian-backed separatists who have control of this area. and there is real concern about where they are taking these victims to. they are in battle with the ukrainian government, so they are not looking to cooperate with the ukrainian government. >> who appears to be in charge of the territory where that plane went down, and how much free access, if i can even use that word, did you and others have to any parts of that area?

>> reporter: we had a lot of free access. i mean, that's pretty disturbing. i don't think i've ever been to any kind of crash site where you can walk amongst the debris like that three days later. we saw a whole section, probably 15 feet long, of the right wing lying in a corn field. we saw people's possessions lying strewn around, suitcases, a laptop open, the screen smashed, and, well, very, very disturbing, as you imagine, we saw a toy. someone's hand-written diary. and life jackets for children. which were out and open, but i don't imagine that anyone onboard that plane had any time to get hold of those life jackets or put them on. >> i know you're leaving the scene right now, how much time did they give you to be there? >> reporter: we were allowed to be there really for as long as we wanted to. the reason why we're leaving the scene is because it is now

really close to dark and you don't want to be driving around in ukraine in the dark. so we are heading back to our hotel where we are completely safe. actually, richard, i'm going to have to go, we're just heading into a check point right now. i apologize. is i'm going to have to go. >> keir simmons in ukraine. getting the very latest information from the crash site, just leaving moments ago. he was on that phone and he had to go through that check point. he was mentioning to us. and so he had to get off the phone. keir simmons, thank you very for the very latest on that. we turn to nbc's jim miklaszewski. he's at the pentagon. u.s. intelligence officials are confirming it was a missile strike that brought down the jet. how do they get that information from what you've heard? >> well, u.s. intelligence and military officials used a variety of assets, we're told, including satellites. infrared satellites that can detect heat signatures such as a launch, and an impact into the

airplane. also intelligence where they're eavesdropping on the enemy, if you will, below. clearly, they have some of that information from that kind of intelligence, that they're not sharing right now. but they are absolutely certain that the missile that brought down that malaysian airliner was shot from the rebel-held territory in eastern ukraine. >> there's the video, which you're very familiar with here, mik, that we are getting from the ukrainian government, that they released. not verified by nbc news. it appears to show one of these missile systems that you've been reporting on on the back of a flat bed truck. one of the four missiles is missing, it appears, in this shot. it's heading towards the russian border. what more do you know about that and what are u.s. officials saying about this video, if anything, at the moment? >> well, without confirming it however u.s. intelligence and military officials say, they can't dispute this information,

which indicates that they probably have the same kind of intelligence that the ukrainian intelligence service had gathered. and as a matter of fact, they produced photos of what they said were three separate missile launchers in that very same area from which the u.s. claims the deadly missile was launched there in eastern ukraine. and were then driven across the border. and the ukrainian security people at this news conference also claim that some of the individuals manning these missile systems were, in fact, russians. now, that is the mystery, that is the puzzle that the u.s. intelligence world is trying to figure out. exactly who pulled the trigger. they certainly -- the separatists, if they were involved, certainly got training and advice on how to do it. but there is a deep suspicion, not a conclusion yet, but a deep suspicion within the u.s. military and intelligence world that russians were directly

involved in that shootdown. >> unfortunately, mik, you have covered many catastrophes like this before. you reported on the very day of when this happened. give us a sense of what the u.s. infrastructure, the apparatus, if you will, what their mood is in response to what is happening this time and what has given so many questions to us here in the news industry. >> well, quite frankly, many of them were shocked. you rarely see that, these hardened military and intel analysts. many were shocked at the -- you know, the humanitarian toll that was taken in this case. they do, however -- they mentioned this not as any excuse, but they find it almost impossible to believe that any military, even a militia, would intentionally shoot down a passenger plane like this. so while they're willing to possibly write this off, unless they find some other intel that says yes, let's shoot down that passenger plane, which doesn't

exist, apparently, but they're willing to write it off as an accident. but they're not willing to write off the responsibility of the russian government for escalating the violence in that region. >> mik, as always, thank you so much. nbc's jim miklaszewski in washington for us. today for the first time since the crash, malaysia airlines has released a complete passenger list of those onboard. it includes 298 people from at least 12 different countries. mostly from the netherlands, as you see there. malaysia, and australia. we also know of at least one u.s. citizen, who had dual citizenship along with the netherlands. but with every drip of new information, more questions arise about the alleged involvement of russian rebels and what it means for the future of russian president putin. msnbc military analyst and retired u.s. arm general barry mccalfry joins us now. there's been reports that rebels could have mistaken this plane for military aircraft. that's one of the theories that

has been discussed in the last several days. it was cruising at 33,000 feet, according to do what we know right now. do military aircraft normally fly at that height or lower? >> well, you know, i thought jim miklaszewski's report was extremely comprehensive. adequate asheersurance that it a launch from inside that region, it was an sa-11. this is a colossal incompetent mistake, but to understand how it could have occurred, this is an area of ongoing air combat. the ukrainian government is bombing on a daily basis. they've lost three aircraft in the last few days.

so it's unsurprising to me that an untrained crew probably not glued in to a larger air defense system would make this incredibly incompetent mistake. >> you bring up a very good point there, general. when we are looking at what you are surmising, an untrained crew, perhaps, not connected to a larger military infrastructure that would have the checks and balances which you were so familiar with. why hasn't this happened perhaps more often given that these service to air missile systems are not necessarily always connected with the well established military infrastructure that you allude to, and that they are out there around the world being held by other groups that are not trained? why have we not seen this more often? >> well, thank god mostly the systems that escape governmental control tend to be mad pads. sa-7. perhaps 10, 13, 15,000 feet

maximum altitude. and even then, they're really hard to operate effectively. but when you get up to above 30,000 feet, mostly you can't see or hear aircraft at that height. these are radar target acquisition engagements. and in this case, this actual shooting platform can fire alone by itself. which means to me it wasn't glued into a larger system where they would say hey, stupid, this is a known commercial flight corridor. you've got a transponder going. don't engage it. >> so that height of around 33,000 feet. do military aircraft stay in that space too? >> oh, yeah. i mean, fighter aircraft or stealth aircraft might head into a target way up there, 50,000 feet. >> right. >> so the height wouldn't necessarily be positive. what is unusual is this is a known stated flight route, an air corridor level flight.

that's what makes it astonishing. obviously didn't follow a profile of a ukrainian air force aircraft trying to land in the region. so, again, it was a -- in my view, a disconnected air defense system that engaged in what was an active combat zone. the larger question to me, richard, is why were any commercial flights in this region? they knew we had -- there were sa-11 this is the area. they just shot down an aircraft above 20,000 feet. it seems preposterous that all the traffic didn't get routed out of this area. >> multiple airplanes that followed that very same space that mh-17 was in. and the ukrainian government, that they knew about these missile systems in that area. so what are the options at this point militarily that may be putin might do or that the

ukrainian military might do? >> well, the ukrainian military is very weak. very poorly supplied. poor discipline. the eastern ukraine, by the way, this isn't necessarily a situation created by russians. these are russian-speaking people who don't want to be part of the ukraine. they're now pretty heavily armed. they're very determined. they hold donetsk, a major built up area. there's going to be a giant battle coming in the coming weeks, if the ukrainian government tries to reassert sovereignty. i don't think they can pull it off. nor will the russians back off. i can't imagine them throwing up their hands and saying okay, we made a mistake, we're going to change our rules. >> what does this tell you about the command and control in that space, when we are looking at this potentially? >> these are brutal people. there's huge interests at stake.

they're fighting in their own build up areas. they're wrecking their own infrastructure. there are no -- it's interesting for me to watch the u.s. urging the dutch, the germans, and others to step forward and confront the russians over this. they're not doing it. they have pretty direct interests at stake. >> general barry mccaffrey, thank you as always, sir. >> good to be with you, richard. coming up, caught in the middle. more civilian deaths as air strikes rocked gaza, this as israeli troops continue their ground operation against hamas. live update for you on that. and a meeting of the minds. is that what it will take to end the crisis at the u.s. border? hey... you guys mind warming this fella up for me? i'm gonna go back down, i saw some recyclables. make it happen with verizon xlte. find a car service. we've doubled our 4g lte bandwidth in cities coast to coast. thanks! sure. we've got a spike in temperature.

so save the day... don't worry, i got this... oh yeah, i see your spaceship's broken. with xlte on largest, most reliable network. get 50% off smartphones like the new lg g3. frothere's no reasonn average 17 we can't manufacture in shuthe united states. here at timbuk2, we make more than 70,000 custom bags a year, right here in san francisco. we knew we needed to grow internationally, we also knew that it was much more complicated to deal with. i can't imagine having executed what we've executed without having citi side by side with us. their global expertise was critical to our international expansion into asia, into europe and into canada. so today, a customer can walk into our store in singapore, will design a custom bag and that customer will have that american made bag within a few days in singapore.

citi has helped us expand our manufacturing facility; the company has doubled in size since 2007. if it can be done here in san francisco, it can be done anywhere in america. in the nation, the safest feature in your car is you. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. nationwide is on your side.

israeli air strikes again taking a deadly risk. the death toll 210, most civilians. people in gaza have left their homes and are seeking shelter. a short while ago, israeli officials reported that two soldiers were killed today. that raises the israeli death toll to three soldiers, two civilians. the current exchange between hamas forces and israeli approaches a two-week milestone. israel maintains its mission is to prevent hamas rocket strikes and to seal off tunnels. israeli troops are destroying tunnels as they find them. officials saying hamas fighters could use these tunnels to enter israel and carry out attacks. martin fletcher joins us right now. martin, thank you for being here. how will these latest deaths

affect the resolve here on both sides of the border? >> well, richard, the two israeli soldiers will be seen as very unfortunate and very bad news, the third soldier to be killed so far, but it won't do anything as far as changing israel's resolve. you mentioned the tunnels being a threat to israel. that's the way the soldiers were killed. militiamen from hamas emerged inside israel. it was a successful infiltration into israel. at the exit of the tunnel, they waited and the israeli army jeep went by. they fired an rpg rocket at the jeep, killed two soldiers. one of them, an officer, a major. the other israelis returned fire, killed one of the palestinians, and the rest apparently escaped back into gaza through the tunnel. so that killing of israeli soldiers reminds everyone how reel this is. when israel says they need to stop the threat from the tunnel network, they need to find and

destroy them, that's what they're talking about. but so far, they've found about 13 tunnels with 31 entry points. bear in mind, there's more than one entry for each tunnel. slow process by the israelis. very decisive, very long way to go. this fighting could last for days. richard. >> martin, you're reporting 13 tunnels, 31 entry points. how does that fit into the total possible number of tunnels and entry points and how essential is this to what the idf is saying to their strategy of reducing the amount of violence we're seeing so far? >> well, those are the numbers i gave you released by the israeli army. different numbers involved. they say they believe there are several dozen tunnels leading from gaza into israel. we talk about these sophisticated tunnels with concrete arches. radio links. sometimes they found one, by the

way, 30 yards deep. sometimes as long as two kilometers, one and a half miles long. so these are very important to israel. the israeli prime minister defined the paid war goal as finding and destroying the tunnels, so it is very important. in terms of stopping the rocket fire, there's another goal unfolding at the same time. israeli troops are moving in the north of gaza in urban areas, at the edges of them, going house to house, building to building, looking for rocket launching sites. they say they found a couple of dozen. one way they're finding them is they're arresting people they say are hamas members, and interrogating them, hoping they will give them the information they need. but i should stress one thing, by the way. hamas under intense pressure on the ground, also being rockets from the air and sea, still managed today to fire at least 93 rockets into israel. now, the daily average over the last two weeks was 130. so the fact they can keep it up at this rate, 93, despite the

pressure they're under shows that the israeli invasion force still has a lot of work to do. >> 9:22 p.m. there in israel and in gaza. when you are talking about the number of rockets coming from hamas and perhaps going the other way as well, does it increase at night? does it stop at night? what's sort of the arc of the day? >> you know, it's varied. certainly more during the day. often more in the evening. and at night, there are some, but not so many. one of the interesting aspects of it is how israelis take the rockets in stride. because of their anti-rocket system, the iron dome. i must emphasize, we've been talking about rockets fired at israel. you mentioned rockets also going the other way. the israeli air force has been rocketing targets with great ferocity in gaza to make it easier for the ground invasion force. so at least 42 palestinians have been killed in gaza today. not sure how many of those are

civilians. but the united nations figures say that about 70% of all the palestinians killed so far -- that's about 350 people -- have been civilians. and about 40 children. so the longer the fighting lasts, the deeper the israeli army penetrates into gaza, the more likely they are to actually end in fighting direct face-to-face confrontation with hamas in built up areas. so the civilian casualty toll will rise. >> nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv. thank you so much, martin. still ahead, more on the investigation of flight mh-17 including the white house reaction. we'll go live to the north lawn. stay with us. i'm m-a-r-y and i have copd. i'm j-e-f-f and i have copd. i'm l-i-s-a and i have copd, but i don't want my breathing problems to get in the way

of hosting my book club. that's why i asked my doctor about b-r-e-o. once-daily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. and breo helps reduce symptom flare-ups that last several days and require oral steroids, antibiotics, or hospital stay. breo is not for asthma. breo contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. it is not known if this risk is increased in copd. breo won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden copd symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. breo may increase your risk of pneumonia, thrush, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking breo. ask your doctor about b-r-e-o for copd. first prescription free at mybreo.com

this is kathleen. setting up the perfect wedding day begins with arthritis pain and two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good, but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap. you're looking at a 4-day-old wildfire in north central washington state, about 120 miles from seattle. it's been dubbed the carlton complex fire. lightning sparking it earlier this week, and so far, it's burned some 260 square miles and forced about 700 people from their homes. wind is making it hard to

contain at the moment. now to some other headlines. the u.s. and five other countries are giving iran four more months to come up with a compromise over its nuclear program. tomorrow was the original deadline. some sanctions worth about $3 billion will continue to be suspe suspended. under the term of the extension, iran will convert all its 20% enriched uranium into full. president obama will sign an executive order monday to protect gay and transgender workers from discrimination. the order will be applied to company dallas do work with the federal government but will not include exemptions for religious institutions. coming up, the attack on flight mh-17. we'll talk to colonel jack jacobs. ♪

during the cadillac summer's best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around $459 a month or purchase with 0% apr and make this the summer of style. but parallel parking isn't one you do a lof them.ings great. you're either too far from the curb. or too close to other cars... it's just a matter of time until you rip some guy's bumper off. so, here are your choices: take the bus. or get liberty mutual insurance. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. call liberty mutual insurance.

♪ she was a alzheimer's disease -- she was a leader, but she was always positive, no matter the situation.

she was always very calm, actually. she kept up the spirit. >> as the investigation begins, there remain many heavy hearts in the u.s. heartland today. karlijn keijzer was a 27-year-old student, a collegiate athlete and someone who friends say excelled at just about everything she did. sarah, how is the campus at this moment talking about what has happened here to karlijn? >> reporter: it is very subdued as people learn more about the loss of this incredibly talented young woman. karlijn was pursuing a doctorate in chemistry. professors say others were inspired by her passion for her field of science, and its ability to improve lives.

and she wasn't the only person of this mindset on the flight. a team of aids experts were on their way to an international aids conference in australia. the international aids society confirmed that fact, and issued a statement saying they are feeling extreme sadness of that loss. >> now, sarah, we're also learning more about the u.s. citizen onboard. with dual citizenship? >> reporter: question, quinn schansman. he was born in new jersey but lived the majority of his life in the netherlands. he was on his way to indonesia to meet up with his family of four. his visibly shaken grandfather appeared on the "today" show this morning saying the entire family is calling this a disaster. they're saying that quinn's death is a disaster for the entire family. friends describe him as caring and selfless. they say he was a calm guy, a good guy that looked out for everyone else around him.

>> sarah dallof, thank you so much. let's bring in medal of honor recipient colonel jack jacobs. as we are looking at what is happening in ukraine, in the disputed areas at the moment, there in the eastern parts just north of donetsk, which is the location of where the plane debris is at at the moment, there is so much going on when we talk about this militarily. and what the u.s. might do. because who is in control of the area and how will they move forward to maintain an investigation that has integrity. and when we look at some of the military options based on you have the russians, you have the separatists, and then you have the ukrainians. how might the u.s. do something on the ground there? >> it wouldn't. not militarily. you know, when you consider what your options are, everything, of course, is on the table, but a military response of any kind is not in the cards here. not by the united states, i don't think. not by anybody. first of all, it has to be some

actual purpose to what you're doing. if the purpose is just to punish people, well, you can i guess pick a target and send a cruise missile and blow some guy up. but that's not going to get the desired result, which is to stop all the fighting in the first place. and we hold putin at least partially responsible for all of this, so we're not going to send a missile out to moscow. so a military option by the united states is -- everything always is on the table. >> does this give them an opening there in the eu or nato to now do something after this -- at the moment, this disaster that we're reporting on? >> well, the short answer is yes. there's always an opening. especially after a circumstance like this, which catches everybody by surprise. but it's going to require the concurrence of moscow in order to do this, because they're supporting these guys in the eastern ukraine. the battle has been joined for some time and will continue. without moscow's support, there

won't be any battle that will continue for very long. so yes, there is an opening, but the opening also has to be an opening at the other end from russia. if russia signals that it might be willing to sit down and work out a deal of some kind, or at least have a cease-fire, then there's something to be done. otherwise this will just carry on forever and ever. >> we've been watching reports coming from the ground there near the crash site and areas close to that. those of what some headlines are calling the king, or the prince of donetsk. and headlines like that. what does that mean on the ground in terms of who's going to be taking control? because there's a lot of questions about who's calling the shots. >> he's got control. he actually has control of the area. generally speaking, although his command doesn't necessarily extend to every nook and cranny in the region. so you've got a lot of independent -- more or less independent operators to do whatever they want.

so command and control is not very strong. there's a complete lack of discipline, which is one reason why you see what you see. >> right. but you're not going to see the ukrainian government move into the area to seize control of the area, because if they had the capability to do that, they would have done it a long time ago. so that crash site is completely compromised. there's no evidence there that will be of any use to anybody whatsoever, especially in view of the fact the united states already knows what happened and who did it. >> you know, we got some new video from the ukrainian government, which you may have seen. nbc news has not verified it. we were talking with jim miklaszewski a little bit earlier from the pentagon. in that video, it shows what appears to be one of those missile launchers, the sa-11s, is what i think you have said in your reporting. what does that look like, what does that tell you how many more might be there? there are reports that there are three similar systems that are in that area. >> well, there are at least three that we know of.

probably more. but i bet you they're not going to be replaced any time soon, until the dust settles, because russia's not particularly interested in sending more there now while the topic is so hot and in the news. but they are relatively sophisticated systems. but when they're manned by people with very little training, almost no supervision, and no discipline, the tragedy that we saw happen is exactly what happens. it's like giving a loaded pistol to a 5-year-old who knows how to pull the trigger, but the result could be catastrophic. >> all right. colonel jack jacobs, thank you, as always. >> thanks for having me on the program. >> up next, the crisis on the border. can a meeting with president obama and central american leaders stem the tide there? ♪ in the nation, the safest feature in your car is you. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving.

which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. nationwide is on your side. now what if i told youok a hotel you can save up to 60%,me first. but you couldn't know the name until after you book? did i say never? i didn't mean it. ♪ would you consider a 4-star hotel that's up to 60% off,

you just can't know the name? just no name? until you book. um... yeah, i'd do that! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ woooooah. ♪ [ male announcer ] you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. zillow. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. you know.... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips

fancy feast broths. they're irresistabowl... completely unbelievabowl... totally delectabowl. real silky smooth or creamy broths. everything she's been waiting for. carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any by-products or fillers. wow! being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. fancy feast broths. wow served daily. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. president obama will meet with the leaders of guatemala, honduras and el salvador next week. the three countries are home to

the majority of the undocumented children that have illegally crossed into the u.s. the last several months. meanwhile, more protests are expected today against allowing these undocumented immigrants in the country. this was the scene in lansing, michigan, yesterday, for instance, as dual protests broke out between anti-immigration and immigration supporters. our reporter is live in los angeles where the annual conference is being held. amanda, now that folks are there, how are they dealing with this rise in tensions, as we were seeing some of those protests just there, but it's been happening for a couple of weeks now. >> reporter: you know, actually, the l.a. mayor is opening the city up to the kids who are in need of shelter. they're opening up shelters with many community organizations here that are well-practiced in providing aid to these kids. they know how to set them up with their families and what they need to do. and so it's very interesting

that he is doing this while many other legislators across the country have been slightly hesitant, mainly because of these protests that we've been seeing in marietta, california, and around the country. >> one of the sessions i was looking through the agenda of the conference there that just got started moments ago, it focuses on immigration reform and how to overcome legislative inaction. that's the title of it. what do you know about that session? >> reporter: the key issue here is whether or not there will be any type of legislation that will be moving through congress in the coming weeks. we're seeing many congressional republicans who are stalling on a proposal that was brought by president obama. he wants to infuse almost $4 billion into the crisis at the border, and help give stronger border security to help bring judges and attorneys down there to process these kids. but many of the republicans are saying that the proposal is too costly, and doesn't do enough to enhance the border security. and so meanwhile, we have many

congressional democrats who have been very split on the issue. they can't decide or they're not united in whether or not they want to speed up the process whether these kids should be deported. >> you're going to see a lot of headliners there. are they going to have to deal with that issue head-on? >> exactly. we have representative gutierrez here today. he has been a very outspoken critic against a proposal to not only speed up the deportation proceedings for these children, but also roll back a 2008 law that provided protections for kids that came across the border from countries that did not share a border with the u.s. meaning kids who were fleeing from violence in guatemala, honduras, el salvador. they will no longer under the proposal have an asylum hearing automatically. they would go through a fast track screening to get them deported eventually. >> i want to talk about a poll that you're very aware of from gallup that came in this week,

and it shows how immigration as a topic shot to the top of public attention. gallup saying that 17% of americans now say immigration is their top concern. that is one in six. before this latest polling, it was about a quarter of that number. how are they planning on using this intense focus, this interest by u.s. citizens across the country coming from that gallup poll? >> reporter: i think the key focus here is that these are children we're talking about. we're not talking about hardened criminals. we're not talking about people trying to run into the country illegally. these are kids showing up at the border and presenting themselves and saying that they need safe haven and seeking refuge. the timing is really crucial right now. house speaker john boehner came forward this week saying that he was not optimistic that any type of legislation would go through congress before legislators leave for a month-long break. and that timing happens in a very crucial time and that's

when initial emergency funding for these kids could begin to run out, and also, when political will will be an even larger obstacle ahead, considering we'll be even closer to the upcoming midterm elections. >> well, what they probably did not expect, as even the most ardent supporters of immigration reform there in d.c., it's now part of what we're talking about today. they had pretty much dismissed it going into the summer, and then unfortunately, the situation with 50,000-plus individuals, many children that so many are concerned about. you wrote about the classification of these children. you were saying they should be classified as refugees, and we look at that idea of refugee status. the department of homeland security, for instance, when we're looking at their rules, they say that a refugee is this. a refugee is someone who is located outside of the u.s., is of special humanitarian concern to the u.s., demonstrates they were persecuted or fear

persecution due to race, religion, nationality, or political opinion, and is admissible to the u.s. what is the process being discussed if at all there, or in your reporting that you're aware of, of perhaps changing the classification of who these individuals are? >> you know, many humanitarian groups have been arguing for weeks that many of these children who are at the border right now do have legitimate claims for asylum. so these kids are fleeing from gang violence, from extreme crime, and from extreme poverty. and they're saying that these children should be afforded a fair trial, or a fair hearing, rather, and that they shouldn't be speeding up these deportation processes when these kids should be given their due process rights. >> all right. amanda sakuma from msnbc.com. thank you so much, there at the conference that is going on today. up next, the white house response to malaysia flight 17. what if anything should president obama do now?

we'll head to the white house for some answers. a living i take pride in them. so when my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis was also on display, i'd had it. i finally had a serious talk with my dermatologist. this time, he prescribed humira-adalimumab. humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b,

are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make the most of every moment. ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible.

family members of the 298 victims onboard malaysia airlines flight 17 are still coming to terms with this enormous loss that we've been reporting on. many pare many passengers were on their way to see family. the majority of the victims were dutch, but there's also one american who was killed. nbc's katy turf has more. >> reporter: the victims were from around the world. quinn schansman was a u.s. citizen, a university student who was born in new jersey, and raised in the netherlands. his grandfather says quinn was on his way to meet his family on vacation. >> you just hope that none of your children or the grandchildren will go before you. and now it has happened.

>> reporter: dutthis dutch citi was going for her ph.d. in chemistry and a member of the rowing team. >> she was always so positive and willing and hard working. >> reporter: the crash was an almost unbelievable double tragedy for australian caylee mahn. she lost her stepdaughter and her stepdaughter's husband on mh-17 after losing her brother and sister-in-law on mh-370 which vanished back in march. here in amsterdam, the nation is in mourning. roughly 2/3 of the victims were dutch. these flower shop owners were headed for vacation. before takeoff, he posted an eerie picture of the plane on facebook, saying, should it disappear, this is what it looks like. mo, evie and otis were flying home to australia with their grandfather. tha their parents booked on a later

flight. >> to lose three beautiful children in a war that isn't theirs. >> reporter: several aids experts were headed to an international aids conference in australia, one of the top aids researchers in the world. george matthew was a friend, a writer and an aids activist. >> there are these special people who walk among us, and i remember him being one of those people. >> that was nbc's katy turf reporting for us. president obama today meanwhile is monitoring the efforts to determine here exactly what happened to flight 17. u.s. ambassador to the united nations samantha power friday made the administration's case for a thorough investigation. >> if, indeed, russian-backed separatists were behind this attack on a civilian airliner, they and their backers would have good reason to cover up evidence of their crime. thus, it is extremely important that an investigation be

commenced immediately. >> nbc's kristen welker is at the white house. good day to you, kristen. what do we know about how the president is discussing this catastrophe and what he can do moving forward? >> reporter: well, richard, the goal right now for the administration is to put the pressure on russia's president vladimir putin to make sure that there is an international investigation into exactly what happened so the president continuing his calls for a cease fire, and continuing the calls to secure that crash site so that the investigators, which include investigators from the ntsb and the fbi, can actually access the crash site. as you know, there's been a lot of reporting about the fact that the investigators on the scene so far have run into a lot of trouble in terms of being able to actually get there and investigate in an unencumbered way. he is in contact with a number of his foreign counterparts, german chancellor angela merkel, prime minister david cameron, as

he turns up the heat on russia, and they are discussing not only the importance of making sure that russia does not continue to arm the separatists there, but also having discussions about sanctions, richard. that is going to be one of the key things moving forward. earlier this week, president obama announced the stiffest sanctions yet against russia. the eu didn't go as far, so there are some discussions about pushing the eu forward to have them step up, ramp up the sanctions that they might impose, and of course, that will be dependent on what this investigation finds. but you heard the president start to really build his case against russia yesterday when he drew that link between the russian-backed separatists who the administration believes shot down that plane, and the weapons provided by russia to those separatists. >> the reaction here, kristen, to what the white house is doing now also looks back -- i mean, critics saying that the president should have acted sooner and had he acted sooner on the issue of ukraine, that

perhaps this situation may be different. how's the white house reacting to those critics? >> well, their argument is that they have steadily increased sanctions. the administration believes that that is the best way to approach this, because in this case, for example, they still have some room to maneuver. they still have those sectoral sanctions in their back pocket. those, of course, are the absolute toughest sanctions that the united states could levy against russia. the president has been adamant all along that he's not going to put u.s. boots on the ground. that the military is not going to get engaged. he reiterated that on friday when he came out and talked to reporters in the briefing room, and he has the public's support on his side when it comes to that. the public doesn't want to get engaged in another incursion overseas, if you believe the polls. but you're absolutely right to point out that there are a number of lawmakers on capitol hill. republicans in particular who are calling for more engagement. one more thing that he could do

is to ramp up the support that the u.s. provides to the ukrainian forces as they work to defend themselves there. richard? >> nbc's kristen welker at the white house. thank you so much, kristen. >> thanks. coming up, we'll talk to nbc's keir simmons live, who just visited the crash scene we've been talking about. meatball yelling c'mon, you want heartburn? when your favorite food starts a fight, fight back fast, with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact. and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum... tums!

i make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding.

ink from chase. so you can. who was responsible? that's the big question in the investigation of malaysia airlines flight mh-17, but finding a definite answer is not so simple. we'll have the latest in the investigation. caught in the middle. more civilian deaths as air strikes rock gaza. we have a live update from the area. the debate over immigration. we'll meet four undocumented teens whose futures are limited by their legal status. they're the focus of a new documentary. and a historic weekend in space. it's the 45th anniversary of the

first moon walk. we will talk to buzz aldrin, one of the first men to leave his footprint on the lunar surface. let's get right to lieu cra -- ukraine, where night has fallen. there are conflicting reports as to who is in charge and who is being let in. the ukrainian government said pro-russian rebels had taken dozens of bodies from the site. where they're going, we do not know at the moment. nbc's keir simmons is in eastern ukraine, where he's just returned from the debris field. he joins us on the phone, 10:00 p.m. local time. keir, as we were talking earlier, you were describing to us what you saw. >> reporter: that's right. you mentioned that it's 10:00 p.m. local time. that's a curfew where you're not allowed to be out on the road. i can tell you that we are back at base, having managed to get back before that curfew fell. what we saw, we managed to get

to the debris field, and what we saw was debris everywhere. just whole hunks of metal. even part of the aircraft's right wing, 15 feet long, i would say, lying in a corn field everywhere. there were plane chairs and pieces of debris you wouldn't be able to recognize. one area blackened and charred. it is a huge area. and then, in amongst it, are passengers' possessions, which have been left lying there, we assume since the crash happened. and you can see people's suitcases, laptops, one laptop with the screen open and smashed. i mean, it's all incredibly distressing, as you can imagine. but particularly so, a hand-written diary. a cuddly toy for a child.

and some life jackets for children. but we assume that no one had the chance to put those life jackets on. >> you were also reporting that they were removing bodies today, putting them on trucks or vehicles and moving them away still today. yet there are still some 100 individuals missing according to what we understand. what did you see, if anything, evidence of that there on the site? >> yeah, we saw a lot. what we saw was the bodies being carried away in body bags and put on to the back. i mean, slung on to the back, to be honest, of military vehicles. that are being driven, and the area is being controlled by pro-russian separatist rebels. they took those bodies away and one driver stopped, and i said to him, where are you taking the bodies? and he said, i don't know. there are reports that some are at the morgue in donetsk, which

is the city where i am now. here's the problem, that crash site is being controlled, if you can call it that, because it's possible to just walk among the wreckage pretty much. that crash site is being controlled by pro-russian separatists by some accuse of being responsible for the downing of the plane. those bodies are being taken away by those same rebels who are facing that kind of an accusation. so it is little wonder that around the world, governments with innocent passengers onboard are increasingly questioning what's happening and raising serious concerns. >> so this is the dichotomy. you were describing this earlier here, keir, that you had just about unfettered access and that there were people walking about. yet on the flip side, earlier reporting has been that it's been difficult to access that

area. >> right. and to explain that, so we get to go there, but when the international monitors who are here, by the way, to monitor the war that's going on, when they went to try to take a look, they were the ones who said they didn't get full access. because, of course, they are not seen by the rebels as necessarily independent, and that's the problem. and we know the ntsb and fbi have officials arriving in ukraine, as you'd expect. the malaysians, the dutch. you have to wonder, who are them that the rebels are going to be happy to allow to the crash side? it is strange how it is we can go there, but others are saying they're not being allowed there. so i guess you can explain it by saying it's a war zone. and we as journalists, as you

know, we go to these places, we take the risk in order to be able to report on what's happening. but it is different when officials are trying to get to a location when they come from countries that the people involved in the war think might be biased. that's the -- i'm not saying they're biased, but that's where the problem lies. >> there are no simple answers certainly to these very difficult questions. you were going through check points last you and i spoke an hour ago. you had to turn off your phone during the report, which is understandable, as you were going through the check points. describe these pro-russian separatists, what you saw of them, and what was that sort of security cordon that you had to go through? >> i mentioned operating in a war zone, and it is a warson, albeit right now a relatively peaceful one, so there are armed michigan in military uniforms.

others in civilian uniforms looking pretty threatening. we went through i think five check points at the top of my head on our way to the crash site. these are not check points that get people to the crash site. these manage the area because these pro-russian separatists are in control of the area. so it is tricky to get there. they want to see your passports at every point and you do take a risk because people are being stopped and being held. even for a few hours. sometimes in this conflict, people have been held for days. so it is a risk. so you go through to try to find out what's happening. >> all right. great reporting as always. keir simmons.

10:07 local time there in ukraine. thanks so much there, keir. amid the chaos of the crash site, there are some fresh worries any investigation will be impartial and honest. secretary of state john kerry spoke with his russian counterpart earlier today via phone. both agreed here that all the evidence from the crash should be available from an international investigation, but that's all complicated given the sensitivity of an already fragile region. jim maceda is in moscow. you heard maybe part of what keir was reporting to us and some of the complexities now, laid upon which was already a very difficult area. now you have this crash. and the downing of mh-17. what do you know about who was in charge of this territory in eastern ukraine from what is being said there in moscow? >> right. and from a bit of experience as well in eastern ukraine.

richard, that's really the whole issue. no one, no one is really in charge. the kiev government is supposed to be on paper in charge of that area. it is like a federal entity in that sense. but all of the national symbols of power were taken away over the past four or five months by these pro-russian separatists in that specific area. now these people, these gunmen have created fancy names. one is the people's republic of donetsk. one is the people's republic -- you recall when we spoke when i was in there about a month ago, at the time, they had ten towns. ten of them were taken back after serious battles subsequent to their discussion. they were taken back by the

ukrainian army. they're cities really. could be alamos eventually. are completely cut off. they're full of money, of goods from the rest of the country. everything is coming in from russia. the gunmen also are giving orders and training by these russian military intelligence officers. some of them are active. most of them are in their 40s and retired. and they are really, if i could use the word, running the show in the shadows. because they have to remain for political reasons in the shadows, they're not stepping up and talking to a dell inauguration who's arriving at the crash site either, to engage them in -- to advance that situation. so here you are at the crash site. you're in the donetsk region, one of the biggest problems, of course, moving forward now is simply not knowing who to talk to. richard? >> nbc's jim maceda in moscow. as always, jim, thank you so much. i want to bring in bill

pascarel. thank you for being here today. as we look at new jersey, it has a very large ukrainian-american population. what has been the reaction to this? >> i've been meeting with the ukrainian delegation from my area for the past five, six months. this situation didn't start yesterday or the day before. we know from the orange revolution several years back that ukraine wants peace and ukraine wants to be one united nation. this is an extension of russian power and authority. when the question is asked who's in charge, the president of ukraine. he's been duly elected. russia is violating the

sovereignty of a nation. we don't want to make enemies of the russians, but if we listen to our ambassador powers at the u.n., she was very clear and succinct about what our responsibilities are and what russia should take responsibility for and not simply walk away. they are hiding in the shadows, as you just heard. >> as you heard from jim maceda, who was reporting from ukraine about a month or two ago and was going through process. i remember speaking to him on camera. on post-election, they thought things might get better. we are now post-election. do you think things are going to get better? >> i think they could get worse. they could get better. depending on how the ukrainian government responds to this. there are guns, not put there by the ukrainian government in the eastern part of ukraine. that has meant death. and now we see what could be an action or intentional shooting down of an airplane.

80 children of the 298 killed -- i mean, this is a preposterous situation. and i believe that this could lead to even more dangerous situations that would engulf the entire area. we have these hot spots in the world, mideast, etc., etc. one stupid move and we could get into a world war. the president is committed to no boots on the ground. on the other hand, we have a responsibility. >> i want to play a bit of sound from congressman peter king, a member of the house intelligence committee. he says russia must be held accountable. let's listen to that and i'll get your reaction. >> russia has to be ultimately responsible, at the very least, for criminal negligence. and in the world of international politics and diplomacy, they have to bear responsibility, transferring weapons of this magnitude to a rebel group. you have to be responsible for the consequences. >> first of all, do you agree with him? there's also criticisms coming from the right. peter king saying that the president, had he handled this differently, we may not have had

to address what we see right now happening outside of donetsk. >> well, it's very easy to say if the president handled it differently. if the president became even stronger than what i believe where he's at at this particular point, i think it risks us getting into a situation where we will have to show some military force in the area. we don't want that. yng that help -- i don't think helps the situation. i am a good friend of peter king's. we agree on a lot of thing. we were on homeland security for a long time. i deeply respect his position. but those who are going to rattle the cage at this particular time better be understanding that it could only get worse and the cage could even be tighter and we'll never get out of it. so i'm saying that we should have strong sanctions, not meaningless. not tooth sanctions, as i would call them. i think the u.n. has to handle this and respond to this. i think they have to speak to the u.n. as well as the russians. putin can be silent as long as

he wants, but the u.n. has a responsibility in this thing, unless they want each nation to be on its own and we don't want that. that's why we have a u.n. >> very complex problem. is this a new opening, do you think? >> i think it is. i think some good can come out of this. cooler heads must prevail. but i can't think of how you show remorse to the families of these 298 people. it's a difficult situation, and we need to understand this. now, the european countries have not stepped up to the plate as we have. we're asking them to do the same thing for russia, to ask for russians to sanction much of what russia is doing, yet we know they depend upon for oil, russian oil. we understand that. but you've got to step up to the plate here, or else, where is the european union? >> winter is coming soon. does that mean that is the -- if you will, the door, when it closes, when we see winter hit? >> yes, and ukraine is a very

important part of that, if you know how russian oil flows. i have a tremendous amount of respect in president poroshenko. i think that he has a good sense of what's going on here. his government doesn't have exactly clean hands in what was going on in eastern ukraine. much of it feels -- much of the east feels it's been ignored. and isn't that familiar sounding to you, whether we're talking about iraq or talking about some other -- syria. when people feel ignored and left out, and particularly if they're speaking mostly russian in the eastern part of ukraine, you can understand this development. doesn't give the excuse to shoot planes out of the air and it doesn't give the excuse to kill people in a way that doesn't allow for life and death to understand and go day-to-day. >> congressman pascrell, thank you so much for stopping by. have a good weekend. >> i'll try, richard. up next, the crisis in the middle east. rocket shell, gun battles and an

open-ended ground operation rages on in gaza. we'll go live. than 225 household uses, both inside and outside the wash. just take some tide oxi and some water, and tide that. tide oxi: now you can tide that. we are the solis family. and this is our chex commercial. there's lots of choices and each of us has a favorite. like chocolate, honey nut and cinnamon. there's no artificial colors or flavors. that's good. and it's gluten free. so we're jumping for joy cause it's full of what we love, free of what we don't. and that makes for one very happy family. chex. full of what you love. free of what you don't. "i've still got it" when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp". life reimagined gives you tools and support to get the career you'll love. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities

[guyi know what you're excited. you're thinking beneful. [announcer]and why wouldn't he be? beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. it has carbohydrates for energy and protein for those serious muscles. [guy] aarrrrr! [announcer]even accents of vitamin-rich veggies. [guy] so happy! you love it so much. yes you do! but it's good for you,too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day.

this afternoon, israeli officials report that two soldiers were killed today. that raises the number of israeli deaths the three soldiers and two civilians. also today, israeli helicopters could be seen firing in support of ground troops in gaza, as the current exchange between hamas forces and israeli approaches a two-week milestone. israeli troops on the ground are now destroying tunnels that run from beneath gaza into israel, and the gaza official is also saying 12 people were killed today, bringing the death toll in gaza to more than 300. nbc's martin fletcher is in tel aviv with the latest for us today. martin, as we look at this, we are looking at the u.n.

secretary-general, ban i cki-mo who is there to try to broker a cease-fire. is that possible, and what do we know about what he's doing? >> reporter: well, you know, they have to keep the peace proposals alive. otherwise there's just a complete -- there will be no end to the fighting, it will just explode. so there are several truce tracks in motion. the u.n. secretary-general is here to try to persuade both sides, israel and hamas to agree to meet indirectly and discuss those proposals. the two key proposals are almost on the table. the egyptian proposal is on the table. it was rejected a good few days ago by hamas. egypt is trying to resurrect that proposal. but there are no significant changes to it. the egyptians have said that is the way it must be. now, there's a second track, if you like, and that is the

governments of qatar and turkey. they're proposing their own for the two sides to work on. now, the difference between those two tracks is this. egypt's proposal is very much what israel would accept, and the proposal of turkey is very much what hamas would accept. those two proposals are wide apart and no way to breach them at the moment. that's why the u.s. secretary-general has come to the region, to try and bring those two proposals closer, to make it more likely they could be accepted. i've got to say, there's no sign they're making much progress at this point. >> you know, martin, you've reported from the area in the region for decades. and while we look at this situation, twice before, we have have been in this situation. how is this different, and now that we're looking at day ten, day 11? >> well, you know, it really isn't different. this is actually the fourth time the two sides have been

fighting. in the last eight years. and each time, if you look at the reports -- and i'm embarrassed to say if i look at my reports going back, it's always the same. israel says we're beginning to stop the rockets and we have to do everything it takes to do that, otherwise the rockets will resume, and it's the same thing each time. now, the difference is that every couple of years, the rocketry that hamas has becomes more effective. it has greater -- it has greater warheads. they go greater distance. they become more accurate. and of course, israel has been developing its technology at the same time and has the anti-missile rocket system, the iron dome. now, what this means is that neither side really feels any great urgency at this moment to stop the fighting. hamas has got plenty of rockets left. israel believe they have about 8,000 to 10,000 in the beginning. they believe they've destroyed about 2,000, at least 6,000 or 7,000 more hamas rockets in its arsenal of varying kinds.

and it's interesting to note that today hamas was able to fire about 93 rockets at israel, despite the intense israeli operations from ground, sea, and air. the average of rockets from gaza has been 130. even today they're at 93. so hamas seems to be in no great urgency to cease fire. they seem to want to continue fighting. >> so, martin, as we talk about the rockets going both ways, when we look at the casualties that are happening in gaza, is that -- does that cause then hamas and its support there in gaza to go down or go up, and as the rockets land and are taken down by iron dome in israel, does that increase or lower confidence in israel? >> reporter: let me start with israel. the iron dome means that israelis are living -- you can

always call it a fool's paradise, actually, because iron dome protects them. and here in tel aviv, people go about their life daily when there's a rocket and it alarms, they run, they hide, they come back when it's all over. an extraordinary achievement to make the israelis feel better and make them safer. the other part of your question, what do palestinians in gaza feel about hamas? i think that's a really good question. i would love to know the answer. and i have to say, i don't know what the palestinians in gaza think about hamas. i'd love our correspondents to relate to that. you'd think with this extraordinary loss of life, about 330 palestinians killed. the u.n. says 70% of them civilians. you think there may be, i don't know, may be some pushback by the people against hamas. and asking them, wait a minute, what are you achieving, why are you doing this? we're paying the price. but we haven't heard that. i don't know if it's because the

media isn't reporting or the people don't feel it. >> as always, nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv. 10:25 local time. thank you so much, martin. up next, an nypd officer accused of using a choke hold on a man who later died in police custody. ng. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. my motheit's delicious. toffee in the world. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

car insurance companies say they'll save you by switching, you'd have, like, a ton of dollars. but how are they saving you those dollars? a lot of companies might answer "um" or "no comment." then there's esurance. born online, raised by technology and majors in efficiency. so whatever they save, you save. hassle, time, paperwork, hair-tearing out, and, yes, especially dollars. esurance. insurance for the modern world. now backed by allstate. click or call. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function

so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion.

ed a lift? visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. covergirl and olay invented facelift effect firming makeup. luxurious coverage plus the firming power of a night cream to plump skin with moisture. new facelift effect makeup from olay and easy, breezy, beautiful, covergirl. this is what has destroyed some 100 homes. a wildfire in north central washington state. it's been raging for the past four days, starting after a lightning storm in the area. so far, some 260 square miles have been burned, forcing about 700 people from their homes. wind making it tough to contain. other headlines we're watching. the u.s. and five other countries are giving iran four more months to come up with a compromise over its nuclear program. tomorrow was the original deadline. some sanctions worth about $3 billion will continue to be suspended. under the terms of the extension, iran will convert all of its 20% enriched uranium into fuel. in new york, there is growing

outrage after a man died during a scuffle with police officers. eric garner is being held in an apparent choke hold by cops while they try to arrest him for selling illegal cigarettes. the 34-year-old can be hearing screaming that he cannot breathe. mayor bill de blasio postponed a ten-day family trip to italy to try and stem protests. the nypd says it's investigating. president obama will sign an executive order monday to protect gay and transgender workers from discrimination. this order will be limited and only apply to companies that do work for tfederal government bu will not include exemptions for religious institutions. still to come, bob hager and colonel jack jacobs join us for the latest on malaysia flight 17. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer.

[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪

my momyou know..... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score. more on mh-17. reports just this past two hours that military trucks could be

seen in the region, bodies being loaded on to them, and then those trucks moving on, the location unknown. our keir simmons on the ground at the crash site just hours ago saying he had unfettered access to peruse, if you will, throughout the crash site. no command and control on the ground, at this point. let's bring in bob hager and medal of honor recipient colonel jack jacobs. keir just telling us over the last two hours, he just left the scene, getting back to donetsk about half an hour ago, and that when he was at the crash site scene, he was somewhat surprised, if you will, that people could be seen walking through at their own will. >> yeah. i've heard that story a lot. >> because it's crash site integrity. >> right, right. and certainly that's a contrast to what you see around here. a formal investigation -- boy, they guard that wreckage and they chart it all. information to taking out the bodies for purpose of dignity and respect, so forth.

that hasn't been happening here. just now in the case of the bodies, it's starting to happen. but the flip side of all of this is in most investigations, that wreckage is just vital. in this one, since it seems to be almost certainly brought down by a missile, the wreckage on the ground doesn't promise to tell you that much. maybe you could find some residue of the explosion or some pieces of metal that would indicate where the explosion happened. and even the black boxes, there's been all this back and forth about who has them, but they are not likely to be too valuable in the case where you're hit by a missile. they don't give you vital information about what happened beforehand. >> some of the discussion here, colonel, is that this is a war zone. and they did put out a warning, up to 32,500 feet. this was flying at 33,000, according to what we understand. so they were outside of that space. but in the war zones that you've seen in the past, don't you just avoid it altogether? because subsequent flights of

mh-17 the very next day, they flew south of the entire region. >> staying away is usually a pretty good idea. that will almost guarantee you're not going to get shot down. u.s. carriers have not been going over that area for quite some time. hour carriers are alert to any notices that come from the faa about where to go and where not to go. ultimately, the airline itself decides where it's going to go and where it isn't going to go. but ours do follow any guidelines that our faa puts out. and in any case, this is an sa-11. it's got a slant range of 72,000 feet. >> twice the height. >> that's 12 miles. none of our planes -- civilian aircraft can fly there. even if you're at a 45-degree angle, which is more likely, it's still over 50,000 feet, which is not where commercial airlines can fly. >> so we may or may not have

learned here, bob, from past catastrophes, we think of corey y -- korean kel. do any of them adefend themselves from such situations automatically? there have been reports that the israeli airline has certain sorts of technologies built in to their 747s that afford them some sorts of defenses. >> these systems, as nearly as i can tell, on paper, they say that they're very effective. and frankly, i just don't know how effective they'd be. but air force one, for instance, is said to be protected. il al, maybe. mostly in the case of where they found shoulder fired missiles that shot at planes on approach or on takeoff, so at low altitude. there's been a run-up in investigating whether you can do this for civilian airliners. last i saw, cost was going to be something about $5 million, and then i don't know about the

effectiveness of it. >> that would be about 10% of the cost of an airplane right there. >> and what are you going to do if you detect it? you have to have an automatic jamming system, for example. a wide spectrum jamming system on the plane that can jam just about any radar coming in. that's also expensive. maybe $5 million for detention system. maybe another $5 or $10 million for detecting system. it's extremely difficult to protect commercial airliners. >> i really meant 2%. my math was very quickly. so when we look at what is happening on the ground, what's next here? what are you looking out here for, bob? >> i think an investigation -- i hear they've reported that president putin said that they would cooperate in an investigation. well, we'll see about that. but in any event, the most solid evidence so far appears to be whatever we've got that makes our officials so certain, that this plane was indeed shot down by a missile --

>> do we have more information? >> i'm just gathering, and certainly i haven't been told, but it sounds like we have satellite imagery of some kind, spy satellite imagery that would show you where the missile was fired and maybe the impact of the plane. now, in an investigation, how much of that do we lay out? start to compromise assets in a hurry when you lay it out for the public. >> bob hager, colonel josh jacobs, thank you both. coming up, fourteens who attracted nasa's attention limited by their legal status. their story is the focus of a new documentary. we have a discussion with the director. plus, a historic walk. i'll talk to buzz aldrin, who made history 45 years ago this weekend, when he became one of the first men to walk on the moon. meows ] ♪ ♪ da-da-da-da-da, bum-da, bum-da ♪ ♪ bum-da, bum-da ♪ the animals went in two by two ♪ ♪ the sheep and the frog and the kangaroo ♪ ♪ and they all went marching, marching in two by two ♪

♪ [ male announcer ] the nissan pathfinder, with intuitive four-wheel drive. an adventure worth sharing. nissan. innovation that excites. an sfx: car unlock beep.ng. vo: david's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

the influx of more than 52,000 unaccompanied children into this country from central america over the past several months has brought new attention to the nation's immigration

problem. a series of pro-and anti-immigration rallies around the country yesterday emphasizing the strong feelings over the issue. but a new documentary puts a human face on those who come to the united states. "underwater dreams" tells the story of four young undocumented immigrants, high school students from arizona, who learned how to build an underwater robot, go up against m.i.t. students, and a national robotics competition. >> i had no idea who m.i.t. was or who cal-tech was. >> it's m.i.t. manhattan project. >> we were just blown away. we thought wow, we're never going to be able to do anything in this competition. >> when we walked in, we were different. >> we definitely felt out of place. it was definitely something that stood out there. >> i had never seen that much white people. nobody was mexican or his tanpa

or latino. >> msnbc will be airing a version of that film sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. you don't want to miss that. what a great story. >> richard, thank you so much, and i feel so delighted to have been able to make this story, particularly at a time when we can really showcase sort of the human aspect of this, and show people that there is extraordinary human capital in places that you might not think to look. >> when we think and we go back ten years and the situation where they beat those m.i.t. college students, what was that moment like for these four? >> it was really extraordinary. i mean, these boys went in, they had a robot that cost $800, made out of, you know, duct tape and chewing gum and bits and pieces from home depot. >> all they needed was paper clips. >> seriously! and band-aids and raisins.

and they hauled across the country and they walked into this competition and they saw shiny robots and sponsor stickers and matching uniforms and the boys said, oh, my goodness. and mayhem ensued, by the way. this evenings did not go smoothly at all and the boys used extraordinary innovation to solve a leaking robot, including using super-plus tampons, which was so innovative and funny. and i think they shocked everybody, including themselves when they ended up defeating m.i.t. in this sophisticated underwater robotics competition. i mean, this was a team from the desert, right? from phoenix, arizona. >> and high schoolers. >> not an ocean in site. >> undocumented, though here, mary. what happened to them? we saw some sound there of where they are today. where are they today compared to their m.i.t. competitors? >> great question. the m.i.t. students have begun on to do extraordinary things in engineering. one young man invented the ear

bud for apple. the boys, however, the winning team -- you know, they were faced with impediments to success, of course, by poverty, by their status and their lack of documentation. and so they were unable to move forward in significant ways, although one young man was able to get an engineering degree, and he ended up deporting himself and served five years in the military, including a tour in afghanistan. so all of these kids have gone on to do really productive things. but it really -- i think this film depicts that human capital, we are in desperate need of engineers and mathematicians and scientists, right? by 2018, i think we're going to have 1.2 million unfulfilled job openings. so america needs students like this. they're aspirational. they're hard-working. and really i think i developed this project, i am a massachusetts democrat and i dropped the project with jeb bush jr., who's on the right,

and i think we're seeing what's really exciting is we're seeing groups from both the left and the right come together around this film as a point of dialogue. and that's really exciting. >> tell me about what they are actually doing today, all four of them. are they documented? what jobs do they have now? do they have families? >> yes. so oscar is fully documented. he's a citizen. he deport eed himself and came back and served in the military. the three other young men are protected by the president's executive order. two of them have a catering business. and then the other young man really has some sort of off and on machine jobs. but again, these young people were hobbled, particularly in arizona with the passage of proposition 300, which basically escalated their tuition for college. one of the brightest young men had to drop out of college. >> over the time that you worked on this here, mary, how has

their mood changed? what's the perspective they had in 2004 and how does that compare to their mood and perspective that they had in 2014? en. >> i think it's sobering, but it's also hopeful. the really important story here for these boys is not necessarily what they did with their own lives, but how they inspired a legacy in their community. there are kids now, a new generation of students from this community, they are shooting off into engineering and these kids are going to places like asu, and they're going to places like stanford. and so it's really what these boys did is they changed the culture in their own school and they really energized a whole new generation of kids as to what could be possible. and i think so that's uplifting. >> uplifting, and that story is -- and now that this film is about to come out during a time where so much is is being talked about and alluded to. are they ready now to become figures, if they're not already in the community, where they will be asked to speak upon this

very issue, quickly. >> i think that's true. there's also a feature film coming out six months from now. these boys are so hard-working and they're brave. and i think they're ready for it. >> all right. writer, producer, director of "underwater dreams." that will be showing tomorrow, right here on msnbc. that will be 1:00 eastern time. thank you, mary. >> thank you so much, richard. appreciate it. up next, a one-on-one with an american hero. it's the 45th anniversary of the first moon walk. we will talk to buzz aldrin, one of the first men to leave his footprints on the lunar surface. . mayo, corn dogs...you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals. 9 grams of protein... with 30% less sugars than before. ensure, your #1 dr. recommended brand now introduces ensure active. muscle health. clear protein drink and high protein. targeted nutrition to feed your active life.

ensure. take life in. humans. we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products like optional better car replacement, where if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask an insurance expert about all our benefits today, like our 24/7 support and service, because at liberty mutual insurance, we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, so we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. plus, you could save hundreds when you switch, up to $423. call... today. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility.

what's your policy? [ chainsaw buzzing ] humans. sometimes, life trips us up. sometimes, we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance. save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at... to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings -- all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility.

what's your policy? liftoff! we have a liftoff! 32 minutes past the hour. liftoff on "apollo 11." >> what a beauty. that was the launch of america's first manned mission to the june on july 16th, 1969. and 45 years ago today, astronauts neal armstrong,

michael collins, and buzz aldrin entered the lunar orbit. the next day, armstrong and aldrin became the first humans to step foot on the moon. collins remained aboard the orbiting command ship. let's bring in former astronaut, buzz aldrin, one of the only 12 people to stand on the moon. sir, what a pleasure it is to see you today. as you look back, and you've seen this footage so many times, when you and neal armstrong spent 21-and-a-half hours on the moon's surface, how does that memory that you had then, that experience, how has that changed to what it is today when you see that? >> i guess i would say that today, when i i think about those images and those moments, it brings to mind where we are today, which is 45 years later, and in five years, it will be 50 years later. and that's a big year to

celebrate. not that this one isn't, because it's crucial. we can do some things this year, leading up to five more years. >> right, right. >> and what was it like when you put your foot down? what does it feel like? is it like stepping down on sand? is it like stepping down on snow? what was that experience like? >> well, the boots we had were rather soft, but there was a print on the bottom of them, and they were like overshoes, because the space suit itself had a shoe on it. so it was like wearing a fairly thick cushioning, so the dust on the moon was such that we'd sink in, oh, maybe a half an inch, a little less, sometimes a little more, depending on the rolling of the terrain. but the remarking thing was the

coherence, cohesiveness of this lunar dust. when a bootprint would be made, it just stayed there. i mean, it didn't sort of tumble apart. and i was fascinated with it. >> interesting! >> a before and after footprint. >> before and after footprints. you were telling "the washington post" this week, you would like to see humans the travel to mars. we also got a map on thursday of what mars looks like on its surface. how realistic is it that we might do that? >> i think it's very realistic, myself. but i'm an optimist, and i've grown to be more and more optimistic. and the 50th anniversary is a wonderful time. we've got 2 1/2 years of this president and 2 1/2 years of the next president. and it's my intention to remind

people of the 45th anniversary of "apollo 12," 13, 14, 15, and so forth. you, you mentioned 12 people. we shouldn't forget the other 12 people. there were 24 americans that reached the moon, two of them on crews that had to establish that we were ready to try a landing on the third mission, and one mission that didn't quite make it. but on each mission that landed, one crew member brought us back home. so, don't ignore those other 12. >> and we will not, and certainly, we will never forget you, sir, astronaut buzz aldrin. a really pleasure speaking with you. and as you celebrate tomorrow at that very hour, we will be doing that with you here on msnbc as well. have a great weekend! >> i'm sure you will. and we can't go anywhere with a

half a percent of the budget. we need more money. >> all right! thank you so much, buzz aldrin. thanks for watching to all the rest of you here on msnbc. tomorrow, be sure to catch a special broadcast of msnbc.com, the great debate, is the nsa making us safer, right here 3:00 p.m. eastern time. off great saturday afternoon. two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good, but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap. if your denture moves, it can irritate your gums. try fixodent plus gum care. it helps stop denture movement and prevents gum irritation. fixodent. and forget it.

and prevents gum irritation. woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen. [guy] i know what you're you're thinking beneful. [announcer]beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. [guy] you love it so much. yes you do. but it's good for you, too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina.

really... so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 dollars a month? yup. all five of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. introducing at&t mobile share value plans... ...with our best-ever pricing for business. cshe is the greatest thing ever. one little smile. one little laugh. honey bunny... (laughter) we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will

on legalzoom. it was really easy to do. (baby noise...laughter) we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.com today and complete your will in minutes. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. in law enforcement, only one thing is certain. >> he's shooting at the deputy. >> you never know what can happen. >> get on the ground! get on the ground! >> on any given day, at any given moment, chaos is just around the corner. life and death, separated by fractions of a second. or a split second decision. and sometimes, there's only one chance to get it right.