this plumbing and heating company got into a rut. find out how the owners changed their company culture by emanating the philosophies of some big name businesses. and the owners of a company that makes new york's iconic water tanks thrive by finding other revenue streams. that's all coming up next on "your business." ♪ small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to

help. that's why we're proud to present "your business" on msnbc. ♪ hi there, everyone. welcome to "your business." today we start the show taking a look at what it takes to build a company that lasts, one where both the customers and the employees are fiercely loyal. i headed out to new jersey to see who bucks all of the friends in the industry to get his business to the top of its game. ♪ >> 20 years ago mike was an electrician working seven days a week, 18 hours a day.

>> first ten years it was a hamster wheel, me and rob, my business partner in a van and start early morning and end at night. >> today gold medal service employs 128 people, has more than 100 service trucks on the road and brings in more than $20 million a year. so what happened after ten years? >> rob came to me, was really burned out and he came to me says look, i'm done. i want to get out of business. i said look if you're not going to do it, i'm not going to do it. then he says i'm not going to go anywhere. let's make a change. let's do this. >> by this rob meant to change their two-man operation into a business, one with employees and more customers, one where they would be the bosses with lock the technicians. >> somebody many years ago told us you can be great technicians butty have tore a great business owner. you have to start working on the

business and not in it. so we seeked out different organizations and we went there to learn best practices. >> they wanted to create a company that bucked all of the stereotypes. we know the stereotype right one the plumber's crack, electricians are treats, people are going to come, they're going to be dirty, they're not going to be polite. >> so they looked outside their industry for inoperation. >> we started to look at nordstrom, disney and zappos. we thought if we can take their belief systems and put it into our company, well then no one else could copy that and we'll be readily unique. >> they were determined to build a business that would last and to do that they felt they needed to have a laser sharp focus on customer and employee satisfaction. they summed it up with four core values that direct every single decision they make. >> core value number one is safety first for our family and theirs. >> safety first for our family

and theirs. >> yeah. >> i imagine that was very deliberate. >> it was. because our family is everybody inside the company. we care about them as much as we care for the customer. >> the second value is to deliver wow through service and exceed every customer's expectations. mike and his team go over ideas on how to do this on every single meeting from simply wearing floor covers to sitting ways to interact with the customers. >> when you're in front of the customer, hey, ms. jones, how are you doing, i did my greeting, is it okay where i parked, is it okay that i put my tools right here. >> michael jackson has been with the company for years and says he still learn something new from every one of these gatherings. >> it helps you see things in a different light. if you're going to houses constantly and you don't have any interaction with someone other than the customer, sometimes you can get steal. >> the third value is to always have the highest level of

integrity. to do the right thing even when nobody is watching. gilbert has been a gold medal service customer for eight years and he says it's these values that keep him coming back. >> above and beyond is the standard for them. they set high expectations for their service technicians. they don't try to oversell you and educate you. >> the fourth is to be a great place to work, all for one and one for all. a sentiment many of the employees never felt until they joined gold medal. jeff describes the office as a second home. >> a family atmosphere. comradery between not only the upper management to the lower guys but the technicians themselves. a lot of guys are friends in work and outside of work as well. >> i know a lot of companies who talk about their core values but don't really live them. >> every decision that we're make in the company, we're looking at our core value to make sure that it fits that employee.

plus we're always taking a pulse of the employees and also taking a pulse of the customers, surveying both to see if those core values are getting deep enough into your culture and brand. >> they are reinforced everywhere you turn in the office from inspirational signs hanging on the wall to their values ball that they throw around at the meeting. >> awe will the of times when the have the meeting we'll throw this around and wherever your thumb lands you have to say what it is. compliment someone. so if i got this i would say hey, j.j., you're amazing today. this interview is amazing and i appreciate it. >> this isn't the kind of thing you see at most companies like theirs but it may be soon. mike has been so successful that he now offers classes and machine tore ship to other companies, including competitors on how to create a winning business. >> i think anytime you help other companies you raise the bar. when you start pulling that up,

it not only pulls my company with it, it pulls theirs too. >> mike has his army, his vehicles on the ground and he's determined to change this industry service technician by service technician. ♪ another plumbing related business faced the same problem as gold medal, keeping the business fresh. especially challenging for the water tanks, a century family business that's been making the same product for generations. their solution, diversifying the business into whole new areas. ♪ >> andrew is the fourth generation owner of new york city based rosinwalk tanks. look across the new york skyline from brooklyn to manhattan to the bronx and you'll find his family's hand made tanks proudly

perched on roof top after roof top on roof top. if they look a bit old fashioned, that's because they are. they'll still shaped by hand based on the physics of wooden barrel making by a family-owned company nearly 150 years old. >> they've been described as abandoned relics. they're used today in plenty in new buildings. the city has the strictest fire codes and the tanks service that requirement. >> as outdated they may seem, they in fact anything but out of date. and for that matter so is the company itself. >> we have a city of stone and masonry and glass and they really don't look like they belong. but it is a well used product and probably new york's best secret. >> if you want to understand the secret of how this family held business has managed to outlast

more than a dozen competitors for more than four generations, you need to start with their very simple philosophy. >> you don't try to throw out something that works. you try to build on it. >> first, he studied all of the aspects of the core business by getting the five key licenses and certificates needed to operate the company, beyond giving him an understanding of the core business, the licenses allow him to become his own subcontractor. that has meant better control over the cost and quantity. the president of new york city' hundred year association is also an entrepreneur himself. but as head of an organization which focuses on the city's oldest multigeneration enterpris enterprises, he knows what it takes for a business to survive. >> businesses that will survive as a family business, the next generation finds a way to innovate and leverage the assets that they have.

>> you're really keeping up with production beautifully. >> that's just what andrew has done here. he leveraged his labor force of woodworkers by dwropg and selling a line of outdoor furniture which can be sold throughout the winter when the tank production comes to a halt. >> they've found a way to expand their line. >> it allows us to keep the only wood shop open for wooden water tanks that's still in business for the city of new york. >> he found another off season opportunity for his masons and welders, servicing and building roof top cooler towers. look around his supply yard, it may look like a junkyard but it's not. look closely and you'll see evidence of several interrelated businesses, each supplying the other with tools, labor and supplies, all connected to the core business and he to the

industry gi for survival. rather than challenge the competition directly, find new customers in related markets. >> add additional service to your menu and going elsewhere you're developing on your own efforts additional business, additional team work. >> the strategy means that he cannot be compared directly to his competition and makes them imvisible to their competitors chlg by being invisible the competition can't find you. as soon as they try to find you, you're somewhere else. and you can't be seen. all of the sudden you're outside their customer base. >> i want to point out some kearns that we have the structural steal. >> today, andrew's 23-year-old son is preparing the take the business into the fit generation. >> i have big shoe to fill but i'm not worried.

i'm confident i can bring a successful future. >> the family will be doing its best to keep them on new york city rooftops for generations to come. ♪ chances are aba lot of you out there don't have a big budget for legal fees and you're trying to figure out a lot of things on your own. in some cases that might be okay. in many you absolutely need counsel pep so where do you get that advice and what are some of the big smus you definitely need help with? reck becca geller is the ceo of a law group that works with small businesses. it's great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> i was very interested in the first thing we had talked about which is, you say, avoid the online sites. for a lot of small businesses, that's where they go because they don't have a lot of money. you need a quick document, go online. >> it's such a mistake people

make because they think they're saving money. but in reality there's three big problems with the online label tools. the first important reason is they dond stand up in court. a lot of times if they get challenged, the court will look at them and the documents are not valid and they're left having no documents or contracts to really bind the company >> aren't there some ya nearic contracts that you could get online? >> they are generic and that generic makes it a problem. just last week ahad a client who wanted me to review a document. within five seconds i'm reviewing it and it's based on california law and she's a virginia company. >> would it make any sense to reduce your fee to get a contract on line open bring it to a lawyer to review. >> almost always when i look at the contracts, they're so cookie cutter that they don't address the company's needs. what a restaurant needs versus a technology company are going to be totally different.

usually you're going to have a lawyer recreate it for you any way. >> okay. permitting matters. a lot of people are doing things without dmiging out if they need a permit in. >> absolutely. they take the first two steps of regging with the irs but they forget about the county and local requirements. if you don't have a business license, you're going to get find and have penalties. a lot of people are starting business from home. you just need a phone, internet and computer but do you have a home-based business permit? you're probably not zoned to have a business. >> that may be something to start, ask other people who are in your industry doing some of the same things and then at least when you get to the lawyer you'll have a list of questions to ask to reduce the time spent with them. >> the permitting stuff is not something you need a lawyer to do for you. you may need a lawyer to pint you in the right direction. what are the requirements for you county or city because it really is going to vary depending on where you live.

>> own our iep. . >> it's one of the most critical mistakes i see business owners make. they start their business and they found a wonderful do main and brand name but they have no legal protections behind their name. getting a trademark for your business name before you get started a huge. i just had a client come to me this past week who had lunched their business already and now wants to trademark it. i took one look at the business name and said, you're going to get sued. because he's infringing on somebody else's trademark. >> and then this one, as a business owner, this one kind of makes me a cringe a little bit. short and simple can be dangerous because we, on the business side, just think i don't want a 50-page contract. i just want a one-page agreement. >> i get that all of the time. people want one-pager with all of the information i need here.

but oftentimes the devil is in the details. if you're having a customer contract, how where you getting paid? when is the payment due? can you charge late fees? if the check bounces? how are you delivering the results? having a lot of information there is really what's going to protect you. the friendly handshake of idea making it simple, that's when people get into trouble. >> when you come on a simple deal with someone and came to them with a 50-page contract, that works the other way? >> you know, people always ask me that and i find the opposite is true. people find when you present a customer with a contract, they're going to take you more seriously because they know you mean business and you're not trying to be unfair. you want to be fully disclosing of what you're promising to them. >> i can imagine you have this conversation all of the time. thank you. this was really helpful. >> thank you j.j. >> when we come back, we answer your small business questions on traits to look for in failed

people and ways to get your delinquent accounts to pay up. join me as i travel to el salvador to find out how this women are starting their own businesses to help break the cycle of poverty. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

changing the lives of their families and all of the people around them. i recently traveled to el salvador with a nonprofit i work with to visit with one of them. >> i'm in northern el salvador. we drove 45 minutes on bumpy dirt roads. there are 50 houses in this village. this is one of them. this belongs to glenda.

but this isn't just a house. this is where glenda started her small business. >> translator: we are a small business. we make candy and candy can milk. >> glenda and about six other women learned to make candy and started a small business selling it in a nearby town. >> do you sell a lot. >> translator: yes, we sell them. we sell a lot. >> she works with the peace corps who's helped coordinate the efforts. >> this is the first thing they've ever done on their own. and i would say it means a lot in their lives. i mean it's very significant. >> significant because there are not many opportunities for women to make money in this remote area of the country. and so they're creating their own opportunities with the goal of lifting their role in society and ending the cycle of poverty. >> translator: here we don't have funds, nobody earns money, none of the women have jobs.

>> patrick higdon is the program director for world connect, a u.s. based organization helping to fund the efforts. >> when we support women, they get us give us traditional returns in that they build strong businesses, quickly with energy. they also generate a lot of social returns for their communities. they tend to reinvest in things like education. >> education is top of mind every time they make a sale. >> i want to work to better the lives of my family, my kids, so they can study. >> while the business is still small, getting to point has taken a lot of work. in addition to learning how to produce the candy, the women have studied sales and accounting, created their own branding and have a detailed plan for going forward. they will soon start to sell bread along with the candy, and patrick says he thinks the next time he visits things were look very different. >> expect to see a burgeoning business. they've already started their

work and they have experience and they have a plan to grow. they have a vision to grow. i have no doubt that they're going to meet that vision. >> he's not the only one who thinks so. >> translator: you have to dream big. i dream big, and work hard. with work i can make dreams come true. >> running a small business, as we all know, can be incredibly hectic and keep you busy 24 hours a day. sometimes a quick reminder of what needs to be done is exactly what you need. if you can use help staying on track, check out our website. you can schedule reminders to check certain e-mails at a later date or get reminders to follow up if someone doesn't respond to an e-mail you send. if a task doesn't need your immediate attention, you can use the snooze option to be reminded later of that task. are you looking to venture

into a new industry? here are five of the best industries to start a small business in, courtesy of mashable.com. >> one smart object. the internet of things or iot are physical objects embedded with sensors. that allows them to communicate information digitally or be controlled remotely. expect to see more companies i understand greation iot strategies in order to make what they do faster, cheaper and more efficient. two, curated e-commerce, catering the online shopping experience to the unique taste of the customer will continue to grow. three, education technology or ed tech. schools and teachers are incorporating more tech into all aspects of the school day. for entrepreneurs, this is a chance to meet demand. four, mobile app development. businesses are expanding their operations on to mobile platforms and need the experts to help them make the transition

smooth, and five, cyber security. security breaches have filled headlines, and as a result businesses are investing heavy in their network security, providing protection for worried companies is a growing opportunity. it's time now to answer some of your business questions. let's get our board of directors in here to help us ut. scott bell ski is adobe's vice president of products and community. he was the founder of an online platform to discover reaive work. amos win bush iii, universal data transfer and synchronization company. so great to see both of you guys. >> let's get started. the first question is about getting paid. >> one of the things i can't understand is why people wait 60, 90, 120 days or longer to go after the cash flow. it's the lifeblood of their

business, yet, it's always the last thing that they work on. what would be a good time for a particular business to approach delinquent accounts. >> a great question. >> an awesome question actually. i think depending on the business, from my standpoint i would say 30 days with a ten day or 15-day grace period. most companies don't have that ability to do that. it honestly depends on the type of business, a construction business, then it takes a while for those receivables to come in and normally it's 30 to 60 or 90 daytime period. >> at what point do you contact them and contact them again? >> i think that you should contact them as soon as the 30 days is up, but i think there's a bigger question s a customer relationship around the point of sale or is it on going? let's face it. a lot of our customers have an extremely tight cash flow they selectively choose who to pay on

time and who not to pay on time. the more empathy your customers or clients have for your business or your needs, the more likely they are to pay you on time. you want to keep that on going and not make it something that just happens when they don't pay you on time. >> what do you think about rewards for paying on time, paying 30 days, it will cost this much, 60 days, it will cost this much. for or against it? >> i don't think i'm for or against it. i think it's a process that it's really dependent on the entrepreneur itself. i don't think a reward system would necessarily make me pay someone quicker. >> as someone who has also run a small business, i'll say every customer is different. sometimes when you have someone who always struggles to pay you on time, you have to make a deal with them that's enticing to them. oftentimes that means f you can pay me on time this time, i'm happy to give you 5% off. >> basically another tool in your tool box to use. >> it's always a conversation that you would have with your

individuals that are working with you, making sure you pay on time. if you can't pay on time, maybe it's time to reassess that relationship. >> let's move on to the next question about finding a good sales rep. >> when you're hiring a sales professional, what are the top three traits you look for in order to ensure you're making a good hire. >> for me i think, first of all, a genuine interest in what they are selling. this is something that they should be up and thinking about how to sell and they should influence the marketing of it. they shouldn't just hit the streets. the second thing i would say is you've got to make sure that this person is eager, yet principled. you want someone who just is hungry but also one that won't risk reputation. reputation is the easiest and quickest thing to lose. i would say the third thing is that they're really good at relationships and not just buddy, buddy, like let's go to football, but also, i want to help you know how your product is performing. i want to share analytics or

data on what your customers are doing, building relationships like that is a great trade of a great salesperson. >> i think dedication, number one, to the product and the company and the culture, honestly. the second thing would be for the person that's hiring that sales rep to have a conversation that you are not a business development perp. most sales reps get frustrated because those businesses place them as business development and sales rep. to a clear, concise role is really important. so no ambiguity, dedication and reliability is something i would look for. >> an incredibly hard hire. >> it is. traveling 50% to 60% of the time. >> and these people are representing you. you need them to sell and be as passionate about your product as you are. >> true ambassadors. >> thank you to both of you. thanks for all of your advice today. >> thank you. and we have a few more great ideas from small business owners just like you.

>> my tip is to be very responsive with your customers, if you can offer a 24-7 service with live chat or really quick e-mail support thing, your customers will love you. >> focus on your fastest path to cash. if you've got a lot of projects or are considering to grow your business, look at the one that's going to make you money the fastest and do that one until it's done. then move on to the next one. i think many companies make a mistake of trying to do too many things at the same time. >> a lot of times we want to give so much information about what we do, but what we do is we dilute the call to action for the customer. when you're putting your product out there think simple, easy, fungal, what is the next step you want that customer to take and give them your first introduction. it's almost like a handshake instead of giving the verbal history of your entire company. >> thank you, everyone, for joining us today. i hope you've learned a thing or two that you take back to work with you. if you want to see anything

again, head over to our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. we have today's segments up there as well as some web exclusive pieces. you can also follow us on twitter. it's 6@msnbcyourbiz. next week two small business owners focus on solutions rather than dwell on the problems they face. we'll tell you how these entrepreneurs managed to turn their limitations into assets. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make your business our business. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone.

there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. there are reports of bodies being moved to an uchb disclosed location from the malaysian airlines crash site. good, thanks forgetion up with us early this sunday morning. there's a lot of news we want to get to this morning. the biggest story right now continues to be the effort to investigate the crime scene of the malaysia airlines passenger jet that crashed in ukraine. breaking news at this hour is rescue workers say pro-russian separatist rebels have seized all 196 bodies recently recovered from the crash site. bodies were taken at gunpoint, this according