there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. there are reports of bodies being moved to an uchb disclosed location from the malaysian airlines crash site. good, thanks forgetion up with us early this sunday morning. there's a lot of news we want to get to this morning. the biggest story right now continues to be the effort to investigate the crime scene of the malaysia airlines passenger jet that crashed in ukraine. breaking news at this hour is rescue workers say pro-russian separatist rebels have seized all 196 bodies recently recovered from the crash site. bodies were taken at gunpoint, this according to u.s.

administration officials. reporters from the associated press say they saw body bags being loaded onto trucks in all 298 people on that flight. contaminated crime scene and reports of how the victims are being treated are drawing global outrage including from the united states and netherlands. more than half the passengers were dutch. the prime minister calling utterly disrespectful the behavior exhibited. he says putin has one last chance. separatist rebels have found what they think are the black boxes and have taken them in as well. want to get the latest from kristen welker at the white house. kristen, any reaction from the administration regarding the reports about the bodies being moved away from the crash site? >> reporter: we are getting reaction this morning, steve. it is an angry reaction from the obama administration. a statement came in overnight from state department officials. i'll read you just a portion of that statement.

it says, quote, the site is not secure and there are multiple reports of bodies being removed, parts of the plane and other debris being hauled away and potential evidence tampered with. this is unacceptable and an affront to all those who lost loved ones and to the dignity and victims that the victims deserve. this is from samantha power who tweeted out, reports pro-russian militants taking bodies at gunpoint, utter void of human decency. today we anticipate that leaders from france, jrm any and britain will press russian president vladimir putin to allow those international investigators to gain easy and free access to the crash site. this all comes as u.s. officials say they have new evidence that links russia to the surface-to-air missile that was provided to the pro-russian separatists that is believed shot down that plane. one of those pieces of evidence being provided by ukrainian officials, they call this a

smoking gun, three surface to air missiles being transported from eastern ukraine back to russia and they say one launcher is missing its missile. i can tell you that president obama is monitoring all this from camp david where he's spendtion the weekend. in a conversation i had late last night with a white house official i was told he was briefed yesterday and specifically briefed about this situation at the crash site and i anticipate we'll learn more about his specific reaction when we hear from secretary of state john kerry who will appear on "meet the press" later today. >> kristen welker, we appreciate that. we want to discuss this with katy higgins, michael weiss, editor and chief of the interpreter, and retired nbc news aviation correspondent bob hager. bob, let's start with you. the black boxes. it looks like apparently the

rebels taking the black box. apparently they have it. they're not admitting it. we're looking at that video right there. what is the significance of that? >> i think eventually, no matter who has him, rebels or whatever, someone with authority and expertise will have their hands on black boxes. they can't just lose them. the key thing is that they don't tell you a whole lot. there are a couple of interesting things they probably will be able to tell you. they'll tell you something catastrophic happened to this plane very suddenly. it will confirm something catastrophic, it won't say missile. it will say precisely where the plane was when the event occurred. the voice recorder which will be in the cockpit and records what the pilot and copilot are saying to each other, that will first of all tell you that they got no radio warning or anything, nobody contacted them ahead of time to say are you an alien aircraft, what are you doing in our air space or whatever? it will tell you whether or not

the pilot saw the missile. that will be a long shot that they actually saw it. it would at least tell you -- in other words, if they didn't see it, it will tell you they have no idea what happened to them. technically, too, the black box will probably tell you the plane might have flown on for a couple minutes but won't say precisely how it came down. >> kitty, let me bring you in here. we're talking about the difficulties. the story of the bodies is extraordinary. the bodies at gunpoint being seized by the rebels. have you with your past with the ntsb and being knowledgeable in this suspect, have you ever seen anything like that before? >> no. it's incredible and unprecedented. every accident that i've been involved in and am aware of, there are very strict protocols that are followed. they are followed whether the

accident happens in the united states or foreign country. none of these protocols are being form load here and it's making what's already a very difficult accident scene, accident investigation that much more difficult and much more complicated. >> michael, it's speculation here, but what could we guess would the rebels want to do with these bodies? is it they want to take evidence away, they want to take personal possessions from these people, hold it ran some, what is the motive? >> the entire thing is a coverup of the incident. the first journalists allowed on the scene of this crash site were affiliated with life news which is a russian outlet very, very close to the russian security services. they were admitted access to the site. several western journalists tried to report and were held at bay. removing bodies, removing the personal belongings of the crash victims. there have been reports that in

the local town locals have taken the credit cards of the victims and started to use them. look, this is a disgrace. there is not going to be an independent investigation. this is the point. the rebels are purposefully trying to cover their tracks and to obscure and hide any evidence whatsoever that would implicate them in this. >> we're trying to picture what this scene must look like right now. there are western journalists who are over there. there are investigators from the west trying to get in. how much access are they getting right now? how far away are they being kept? what's that scene like? >> you can't get to the ground zero, if you like. by the way, the wreckage is scattered all over the place. there isn't one locus. if you're attempting to rifle through the remains or get really up close and take photographs, these guys with guns are going to sort of keep you at bay. they're not going to allow you in there if they don't want to. remember a few days ago the osce

monitors attempted to -- they were the first ones on the scene. they were granted very limited access to the site and then they were told to get the hell away and gunshots were fired. this is a european international diplomatic mission almost being shot at to go away. >> bob, in covering these things over the years, is that something you've encountered before, where there's hostile forces? >> i just want to say, i think a lot of times when planes have crashed in unregulated parts of the world, you have to be careful about saying third world, but third world countries, some of them friendly to us and so forth. public access, people wandering in a jungle setting through the wreckage and looting, taking credit cards from the bodies and so forth. frankly, that's kind of common when planes crash in odd places. >> what about -- kitty, in terms of the response here from the west, whether it's from the

governments in europe, from the united states, what can they do -- in terms of trying to recover these bodies from the rebels, what can the u.s. do? what can britain do, what can france do, the netherlands do to get those bodies back from the rebels right now? >> well, the question is who is in charge of this investigation. it happened in ukrainian territory. ukraine does not control that territory. the western governments are putting pressure on russia, the russian federation, on vladimir putin, to provide access and to control the rebels and allow the investigation to proceed. without that kind of leadership and managing the site, we're going to continue to see this chaos. the russian federation, the leader of the russian federation needs to make these rebels allow

the investigators to do their job. >> and michael, just in trms of the new evidence that the united states is now talking about, so saying there's the missing missile, watching it being transported from eastern ukraine across lines into russia, it does strike me when i hear that it's almost too obvious. it's almost surprising they wouldn't try to cover their tracks a little bit more. does that hit you at all? >> kremlin propaganda, this is a type of warfare, plausible deniability, misdirection. some of the attempts to do this are so absurd because we have satellite footage, intercepts and all these things, it's putting a little bit of doubt out there. if put tin says i have nothing to do with it, headlines say putin denies. that's how the western media conveys the russian sentiment. the intercepted communications, some of which you've aired on

the show previously, many of which western intelligence show separatists not just talking to each oerks they're talking to russian military intelligence about this incident. it is absolutely implausible, 100% implausible that the kremlin doesn't have full control over this militia at least now and could not, if it wanted to do so, tell them, look, you have to allow international monitors and inspectors, we have to have an independent investigation for this crime. they don't want to do it because it implicates them as well. >> developments coming in by the minute. we'll pick this up in the next hour. for now i want to thank katy higgins, former nbc news aviation correspondent bob hager and michael weiss from "the interpreter." is the man responsible for the thumping that george w. bush says he famously received in the 2006 elections, is that man about to take one hymn self? that's next. and that's why i take prilosec otc each morning

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it's been a grim year for the city of chicago, or at least for the south and west sides of that city. 82 people were shot over the 4th of july holiday weekend, 16 of them killed. just this weekend at least 34 people have been shot, including an 11-year-old girl struck dead by a stray bullet. mayor ram emanuel says he's been working to stem the violence. the former white house chief of staff is facing re-election next year. one potential challenger, the cook county board president, said this week she decided not to run. some of us surprised because a recent poll showed emanuel would be starting with a huge deficit against preckwinkle.

despite that, she says she did not want the mayor's race to impede her ability to work with emanuel over the next seven months. another challenger may enter the race, the chicago teachers union president. she looks good on paper. karen lewis leads ram emanuel by nine points in the same poll. it's not as much as preckwinkle, but still substantial. 18% of voters remain undecided. since taking office, rahm emanuel has laid off nearly 5,000 teachers. that means lewis is one of the toughest adversaries. spokesperson said she's close to filing the paperwork for a committee to run for mayor. she's also expressing confidence. >> yes, rahm can be beaten. i think that bozo the clown should be able to beat him if there are only two people running. >> he's down in the polls in a city facing tough times. can rahm ooh manual bounce back?

joining me to discuss, mary ann ahern, politics reporter from wmaq and jim warren, washington bureau chief for the washington daily news. i was reading the reaction from karen lewis to this poll. she was quoted in the paper saying "wow." that was my reaction, too. this pollster called it in 2011. they were right on about the margin. this is a reputable pollster. how big a shock were these numbers in chicago? >> big shock and interesting reaction from may your emanuel and his campaign staff who said the poll was laughable. i don't think they really think it's laughable, but that was their initial response. we're hearing that he immediately started calling especially black alder men where his support is really low and asking them whether or not they needed anything, not just him calling, but his campaign staff. the mayor clearly concerned

about what this poll signals. >> jim, how do you interpret the poll? mary ann just referenced it there. when you look at the racial disparate in the poll, his support -- the floor has fallen out when it comes to african-american voters for ram emanuel in chicago. is this because of the violence we talked about, because of education cuts? is there an issue you can pinpoint this to? >> first of all, to say the polling done by the sun times i think is meth logically very dubious given the row bow polling they did, particularly a couple months ago that showed him in single digits with black and latinos. that's just fall der al. >>. it theoretically has him running against someone who can turn out to be very much the bozo candidate -- >> you don't put too much in these polls, a sitting mayor down by that margin? >> no. the question is, guys, yu may

dislike the guy, there are good reasons to, sort of like the who who married into the family and at the dinner table says mom is a hoarder, dad is drunk, sister-in-law is a drier, stuff nobody wanted to hear, including the dismal finances and the dismal public school system that was going to cream him politically. i have two did in the system. right now is the weakest moment of his mayority. the fact you don't like him doesn't mean you're fully behind someoneless. given his giant, giant money advantage, about seven or eight million in the kitty and just started a super pack that's already up to 1.5 million that's largely to try to buy off city council candidates, he's going to be a very, very formidable opponent. with preckwinkle out, i'm not sure what she things t notion of

karen lewis being a candidate is a stretch. >> when a sitting mayor is trailing in two polls, that's usually a warning sign. mary ann, what do you think? >> karen lewis is bombastic. she is the one that went after the mayor. she helped lead this very first teachers strike in the city in 24 years. but to write her off totally at this point i think is wrong. yes, she's going to have to reinvent herself from union leader to executive. there are certain folks that see and hear her and screech and say, ooh, not her. but interestingly, if we're a candidate and i hate to bring up the weight issue as a woman. she's gone through some surgery, reinventing herself physically. she wants to be a candidate. whether or not she finally takes that jump and joins is another thing. i wouldn't write her off. i think there is a lot of anti-rahm out there and folks will be looking around and say,

if she's the one to go for -- >> tony breck winkle by all counts would be the most formidable challenger. when you see the poll, 24 points. if i'm sitting there and see a poll like that, i get in the race. what does that say that she decided not to? >> she is on the ballot. >> go ahead, jim. >> mary ann, my notion is a lot of it has to do with simple -- what is the new power equation in chicago politics and very much american politics and that's money. 10, 20, 30 years ago you could have said i god a good work organization, council members that can support me now. now it's pure, unadulterated funds. he's got a golden rolodex, mass. i think people like toni preckwinkle looked at a guy with a war chest from $10 million to

$15 million and didn't have the wherewithal to compete on that level. >> mary ann, final question to you. chicago, barack obama, his former chief of staff. is there an expectation that barack obama is going to come in and help rahm emanuel at the end here? >> there is an expectation he will come in at some point. and what will that mean in the black community? he needs it desperately. one last note on toni preckwinkle, she is on the ballot in november for her current job. there are some who think -- it's tough for her to get anything done without someone asking her are you running, are you running. once the november election is over, could she be drafted? maybe not. there are some who are holding out that and think that perhaps preckwinkle might get in. >> i have seen that move before many times. we'll keep an eye on that. my thanks to our two chicago experts. mary ann ahern, jim warren, appreciate the time. up next we'll have the latest from gaza right after this.

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israel expands its ground operation in hamas. the death toll continues to rise. palestinian officials say 400 palestinians have been killed, the vast majority civilians. witnesses say there are dead and wounded in the streets of one gaza neighborhood under heavy tank fire. hospital officials told the bbc more than 40 people were killed in just that one district. five israeli soldiers and two israeli citizens died since israel began the fighting. every time you use dawn, you're using a brand that supports wildlife rescue efforts. experts trust dawn... because it's tough on grease yet gentle. ♪ you by my side makes the little things so good ♪ ♪ be a part of the bigger picture. ♪ and your kindness makes ♪ the little things that you do for me ♪ go to facebook.com dawnsaveswildlife.

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"kansas city star" that she is actually backing brown, never had any intention of doing otherwise. there are other names who are actually independents and not republicans. make no mistake, sam brownbeck is still in trouble in kansas. some of those republicans became independents because they believe brownbeck no longer speaks for them of their party, he moved the gop so far to the right in his four years as governor, they no longer recognize the party. we are deeply concerned by the direction sam brownbeck is taking kansas. we are all republicans but we will be kansans first. the decision to endorse a democratic candidate is a big step and a major departure from our republican roots. we don't make this decision lightly. we think of kansas as a monolithically red state. there are have been two shades of red when it comes to the republican party in kansas, there were republicans like bob dole and nancy castle obama, the

new insurgent tea party wing and that's the team brownbeck led to power. he's rolled back reproductive rights, state's credit rating downgraded. he's slashed money for public education. kansas has only voted democratic once in the last 19 presidential elections. polls now show that brownbeck is locked in a dead heat with his democratic challenger paul davis. it's a state that has elected democratic governors in the past including kathleen sebelius. how real will the brownbeck blowback be? raj goil from kansas worked with brownbeck's challenger paul davis when they served in the house of representatives. crosby ger anyone is one of the republicans on that list who has thrown his support to the democratic candidate for governor out there. mr. mayor, let me start with

you. republican against sam brownbeck, for a democrat? what is it that led you to make that decision? >> well, first of all, steve, thanks for having me on. i think you basically summed up a lot of reasons why this group of republicans, many who are current and former office holders, many school board members decided we can't afford another four years of sam brownbeck. we are seeing at least over $300 million in shortfall in the budget this year. that's projected to increase to $1.2 billion in the next five years. we've had tremendous cuts to public education. we've been downgraded by moody's. we borrowed $800 million in the last three years. it's just time for a change. paul davis is certainly a good, moderate kansan and will be a

great governor. >> mr. mayor, have you spoken with the governor since you came out for paul davis? did you talk to him before? did he try to dissuade you? did you have conversations with him? >> no, i did not. >> raj, tell us a little bit -- a democrat from kansas, tell us about the political culture of kansas. a lot of people say from the coast it's one of the red states in the middle of the country. the political culture of kansas is more diverse, the idea of two republican parties? >> absolutely. many people, steve, look at politics of the presidential elections. what they miss is the fact that at the state level kansas voters, voters across the country are very open to ticket splitting. what you have, over the last 48 years, democrats held the governorship in kansas 28 of those years. you mentioned kathleen sebelius, were others before her.

it's great he's doing the right thing for his constituents and the state. kansas voters, i found -- i was elected as a democrat in a very republican seat. democrats were a third party, more people were unaffiliated than registered as a democrat. yet, we were able to win nearly 60% of the vote because of what's happening here. a deeply unpopular republican incumbent who is out of the mainstream and a common sense democrat who wants to make government work, fund our schools. >> that's an issue particularly i've heard, funding for public education in kansas. again, we say a red state, people don't think of public education being a priority. this is a significant issue? >> in a way it's the fundamental fault line for people in the legislature and politics. i know certainly in my election in 2006 public education was the most important issue, it defined the sebelius tenure and paul has been a terrific leader in public

schools, working what we like to call the moderate majority where you have, as we mentioned, the two shades of red in kansas, you have a moderate republican party and a really conservative republican party. when you knit these two factions together you have a moderate majority that i think will govern the state in the future. >> nationally when we talk about brownbeck, we talk about the tax cuts, the revenue shortfall that's created, the credit downgrade and all of that. would you like to see the tax cuts rolled back and returned to their previous level or do you think they should stay where they are right now? >> well, ideally we'd like to keep them where they are. i think the reality is, though, we have had huge revenue losses. it's just going to be -- we've cut school funding back about $1,000 per student. we just can't keep doing that. >> that's an interesting answer

because i think what brownbeck's people would come back and say is, look, they're endorsing my opponent. at the end of the day, the tax cuts i instituted, they want to keep. is that what i'm hearing you say? >> i think the most important thing is to get school funding back where it needs to be. that's what paul davis advocated. i think initially, hopefully we'll be able to keep the tax cuts where they are. nobody likes to pay taxes. i don't and certainly nobody does. at thend of the day we can't continue to cut school funding the way we've cut it. i think it's important to note that one of brownbeck's big selling points at least when these tax cuts were put in was that we were going to see all this job growth. that just hasn't happened. kansas has lagged its neighboring states and certainly the u.s. as a whole in job growth since the recession. even most of those jobs that we've gained that brownbeck is so proud of, most of those are really low-wage jobs. >> kansas really is i think the most interesting governor's race

on the board this year. we'll keep a close eye on it. my thanks to you both. is the power of the presidency being diminished at home? we have a roundtable and we'll talk about that. that's next. wow! isn't it beautiful? your sweet peppers aren't next to your hot peppers. [ gasps ] [ sarah ] that's my tide. what's yours? [ gasps ] my motheit's delicious. toffee in the world. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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there unaddressed and unresolved. ron brownstein of the "national journal" floated a theory about why. on one side he noted the democrats' slight advantage on cultural issues, on the other, the republican advantage on the role of government. he concludes, these contrasting strengths present a formula for an extended electoral standoff that denies either party a lasting advantage any time soon. that means more confrontation and stalemates in washington and more presidents who can't muster the support of than half of america. on issues where there have been longstanding agreements between the two parties like funding for transportation, for our roads, our bridges, in this atmosphere, the president is forced to practically beg are. >> that's my big motto for congress right now, just do something. >> just do something. think about this, the current republican congress has chosen to do nothing. no matter what you think about that, republicans are still expected to keep their majority in this year's midterms.

in other words, for all those republicans saying no to working with the president, where is the political downside? where is the incentive to change their ways and start compromising. it raises a serious broader question, if hyper polarization is the new reality, what's the point of being president. look at everything that goes into running for the job, everything that comes from being in the job, all the grief, all the hassle. is it worth it? >> let me ask you the final question, do you enjoy constant non-stop criticism? >> obviously it can be worth it if you're able to achieve the change you campaign on like president obama was able to do in his first two years in office when his party controlled congress. take that away from the president, take that away from any president, it raises the question of what the job is worth. joining me to talk about all this is msnbc political analyst, kelly connolly and wesley lowery a political reporter with "the washington post." i look back at the last almost

six years now of the obama presidency, you can split this into two periods, the first two years when you had the most productive congress since lbj, the great society. maybe the republicans hated it, maybe the democrats loved it. the point is things happen in those first two years, we've seen the reality of divided government in a hyper polarized america since then. the white house wants something, the republicans in congress say no and nothing happens. it makes me sit here and say how can either side break that? >> steve, you talk about the first two years of the president bpt see and say all these things were done and voters rejected it. >> and then they re-elected the president. >> that's different. an incumbent president has significant advantages. this one had many advantages over mitt romney in getting re-elected. for the midterms in 2010, much like 2014, it's much more about issues than individuals. it's much more about what do people see as the roll and reach of government. that's why i think that the republicans will probably do

well this year. to you and ron brownstein's broader point, there's no question. i think the presidency is a thankless job. what you have to do and sacrifice to get there and then the reward in my mind's eye is precious little. but i think to be fair, the president -- ron brownstein's colleague, ron fornier wrote a great piece that the president seems to be concerned about me, myself and i. even went to the border and made it about him. >> but there's a -- >> to be fair, i'm not sure how fair -- >> the point i'm trying to get to, kelly. >> a self pity party. >> republicans can sit there and brag about what happened in 2010. it's true they made massive gains in 2010. democrats are rightly brag about president obama racked up the biggest share of the popular vote since lbj. the over all-takeaway what is the message the electorate is

sending when they can't do anything. >> we have divided government here. if you look at the part of the electorate that shows up in 2010 and likely will show up in 2014, looks different than the electorate showing up in 2008 and now in 2012. i think that's a big part of it as well. we're really talking about two different sets of people, the type of people mobilized by a president or a can't is a see like barack obama and potential can't dwa see like hillary clinton are different than those mobilized by the passage of the affordable care act. we need to turn out and get rid of these democrats in congress. that's one of the big problems. you're talking about two different sets of people voting in a midterm year versus voting in a presidential year who want two completely die metrically opposed things. >> in 2008, 130 million americans voted, in 2010, 80 million voted, in 2012, 125

million voted. 45 to 50 million americans who stay home in midterms. >> is there any expectation it's going to change this fall? >> no. >> i don't think there is much expectation. >> why when you see that consequence of, why, i voted for my candidate and he got to do what he wanted for two years, then he didn't show up and couldn't do anything. >> first of all, there's always this tendency to project out ahead based on what's happened in the past. things change. for instance, if the republicans take the senate which is increasingly likely, they will be under a lot of pressure to show that they're force something and can deliver something. >> they'll probably pass a budget which harry reid didn't do for five years. >> and will probably pass immigration reform of some kind. the republicans got 29% of the latino vote in the 2012 election. you cannot win a presidential -- >> we said after 2012 they will

address immigration. >> there's a bigger problem. >> no reason for them not to have addressed it at this point, because going into 2016 -- >> jonathan, here is what -- i want to get kelly in. but here is why i'm so september cal about that. i'm picturing the psychology of a party that has already put it off 2014, winning this fall and then saying -- >> hold on, hold on. let's be fair here. go back to president obama in 2011, the clip has been played a lot in the last couple weeks. it shows him just really ridiculing the republicans. oh, they want to build a border, they want to put a high fence, a moat, put alligators in the moat. over 80% of americans want border security and they certainly want it now. you can't ridicule an entire political party and then expect them to work with you. it's not like -- >> why not? the republican does that to the

democrats all the time? >> no, no. compromise is a two-way street. the president said to the russian leader i can be flexible after this next election, why doesn't he tell the republicans? >> democratic senate candidates don't want him to campaign with them. >> hold on. we've got a democratic senate candidate next to us. that's for the next hour. let me put something on the table here. from a republican standpoint, right now we're at this stalemate. it's frustrating to democrats because democrats have an agenda of what they want government to do. i wonder, from the republican standpoint they're okay with a stalemate because they're against any increased role of government. >> that's not true. they believe the government has a responsibility to defend itself, to a military, to have an honest economy. i think that's an overgeneralization. speaker boehner said the president has been president for

5 1/2 years. i would like to know what is the obama doctrine of foreign policy, his immigration plan? the average voter can't tell you that. the answer is always the republicans won't help me, a self-pity party. be a leader. >> let's look at history a little bit. after the 2010 midterms, john boehner went on "60 minutes" and said to lesley stahl that he did not believe in the word compromise. this is a word that our country was founded upon. it's at the center of every -- the entire experiment in american government, and that was the position of the new majority in the house of representatives. that is when i decided to write my book about the 2010-2012 period. i thought it was so extraordinary that we have one political party that's a little left of center and we have another political party that's way to the right. >> oh, my god. a little? >> asymmetrical polarization to

use the science term. if you don't want to compromise and even though very conservative guys like tom coburn from oklahoma are saying on the simpson-bowles commission, yes, let's compromise, let's raise taxes a little bit, but the party as a whole can't compromise at all, they're not going to have any movement onnish groups. >> there's an idea in your book that i want to ask you about, but we've got to squeeze a break in first. we'll come right back. hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection? sure, we help with fraud protection. if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card,

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ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. [ applause ] >> i've been thinking about your offer, joe, not that i'd ever run again, but do you really think the party would back me if i helped out?

>> it's already been discussed, mr. president. >> that was jack lemon, dan aykroyd, wilford brimley and sadly james garner. we're paying that clip as a tribute to garner who pass away in los angeles at the age of 86. a fitting clip to play in light of this topic. james garner, one of my favorite actors, "rockford files." >> that reality of hyper polarization, the reality of everything we've seen in the last six years, someone like hillary clinton who has to decide whether to run for president in 2016, do you think that's something that would give her pause, to look at that and say what could i actually do? i need the congress, too. >> it has to. if you look at anyone thinking about coming into the presidency, you have a few large scale accomplishments. even if you look at the obama presidency, when he first came into office, there were the kind of checklists of things he was able to get done. now six years in, five years in,

obviously we're not moving through that list as quickly. anyone who would come into the president, whether that be president hillary clinton, president elizabeth warren, president bernie sanders, president rand paul, would be able to push through whatever that first few checklist of things were and then would have to deal with the polarization of washington. do i think that factors into their calculus? it has to. i think anyone at that point who is especially looking at someone like hillary clinton who has served in the cabinet and been in the senate, the things left on her checklist, a lot of those are things where she would need the bully pulpit. >> that's the question. does a mandate exist when an electorate sends the radically conflicting messages of a 2010 and 2012? >> there's a bit of a mandate. to get elected you have to be a little pie in the sky. george w. bush is going to the uniter, not the divider. president and senator obama says

let's transcend politics. bill clinton said planity of things. but to actually govern all that gets washed away. in practical terms you can only do so much i think for any president and that's true. however, i think more can be donathan is being done. it's no joke that the president's love of executive order has rankled many people who might be willing to work with him. >> the flip side is i'm doing executive orders because they won't do -- >> just to say something on ronald reagan's behalf, i know this will shock kelly ann. people thought the presidency was impotent in the late 1970s when jimmy carter wasn't able to make much progress. reagan came in, there was an election, elections have consequences. after 1980 he was able to get quite a bit done. you can see a situation where in 2016, even if the democrats lost the senate in 2014, they would get it back in 2016 because there are so many republicans who will be up for re-election

at that point, that hillary clinton would come in with a big head of steam, a new democratic senate, maybe some advanced for the democrats in the house, a new set of political realities. >> that's an interesting reality. >> woodrow wilson said the president is as big a man or woman as he can be. in other words, part of it is in the nature of their ability to fill the office, to reach out, work with the other party -- >> the key to that reagan win in '82, that was a shock to the system. >> the fact that he won 40 states, that was a shock to the system. i want to thank msnbc jonathan alter, pollster kelly ann connolly forgetting up with us. another full hour of news ahead beginning with breaking developments on the plane crash. we'll have all of that. stay with us.

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hour of "up" with more on the malaysian air crash in the ukraine. there's more information about how the black box was take friend the crash site. rescue workers said they found the black box and were forced to hand it over to pro-russian rebels. they claim they're going to give it to independent investigators. pro-russian rebels have reportedly taken all bodies taken from the crash site at gunpoint. that's according to u.s. administration officials. reporters from the associated press said they saw body bags were being loaded onto trucks. nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker reported to us earlier in the show. the obama administration is condemning the actions as unacceptable. the site is not security. it is critical there be a full, credible and unimpeded international investigation as quickly as possible. events to 34e78 oral lies the 298 victims were held in sydney, australia. and church services in the netherlands. dutch prime minister say time is

running out for vladimir putin to exert influence over the rebels and show he has good intentions. for more we'll tear to nbc's keir simmons reporting to us from ukraine. >> reporter: steve, good morning. there are mangled pieces of this plane across the ukrainian countryside here. for example, the section of tale behind me. there is still confusion over whether the black boxes have been found. this morning we're told the bodies have that been discovered here have been removed and there are fears that many missing people haven't been found. more than 100 people are still missing somewhere in this wreckage. but area is still largely unguarded. it's unbelievable that we can just walk right through the middle of all this. stretchers used to carry away the ged have been abandoned. passengers found in the fields alongside their possessions, a wallet without money or credit cards and many cuddly toys, 18

children were on board. people's bodies have hit the ground and left these horrific marks. the bodies of the victims will be sent back to their families, i was told, by a gun wielding militia leader who calls himself prime minister. memorials are being held for victims from around the world. the downing of mh 17 was not an innocent accident. it was the outcome of a trail of human evil. >> reporter: and the international ang ser building. the dutch plim minister lost 193 countrymen. russia's president putin has one last chance to help, he says. but there is still no sign of crash investigators here, three full days after flight mh 17 came down in flames.

we have seen european monitors, not investigators, come to this site again today. they have told us that the bodies have been taken to a refrigerated train car near here. they have seen them. they say they are secure, but what they cannot confirm is where the bodies will go next or when. back to you. >> nbc's keir simmons in ukraine. on the heels of president obama's announcement of new sanctions a few days ago, russia is countering with sanctions of its own, it has banned 13 americans in entering their country. officials say this is in response to the u.s. ban on travel here by russians sanctioned for human rights abuses. politico reports most of the americans who have been banned are associated with ab gu grab or guantanamo bay. also banned, congressman james moran from virginia. they say he's been accused of financial misdeeds.

congressman moran is here. before we get to the issue of what the russians are saying about you, i want your reaction to the latest developments this morning. we have news now of the bodies being seized by the rebels. i want to get your take on that. >> it's inexcusable. these guys think like thugs, and i think it's coming from the top down. that's the way that vladimir putin has operated. that's the way the kgb is used to operating. it's just such a shame. i think things are going to deteriorate unless putin uses this as an excuse to withdraw from the eastern part of ukraine. i doubt he will. but what a shame for us to be in this kind of conflict with russia which was so avoidable. you look at great leaders like gorbachev, all the wonderful russian writers and even people like nikita khrushchev who think

through things. this guy doesn't seem to think through things. he thinks and acts thuggishly. that's why he attracts so many of these people who don't abide by international laws or even common decency. >> you're on this list of americans who are now banned from entering russia. a couple questions, first of all, they're citing financial misdeeds, not elaborating at all. do you know what they're talking about there? >> no. but i have a strong suspicion it's because of the amendment to that -- i was able to get passed overwhelmingly in a bipartisan fashion to have the u.s. military stop buying helicopters from the russian-controlled state arms dealer, rosa born export is their name. we were buying the helicopters for use in afghanistan, but it's also the very same company that's been supplying arms to the assad regime in syria.

we have no business subsidizing a russian arms exporter when they're arming a mass murderer. so it was an amendment that i thought made sense. obviously the afghans are used to operating russian machinery. but what we should have done is to cancel that contract and buy the helicopters from ukraine. that's probably one thing. there are a couple of other things, i'm on the board of the open world institute. we try to find young russian leaders and bring them to the united states to learn how democracy and the rule of law operates here. that obviously is a threat to mr. putin's regime. >> is this ban going to affect you? had you been planning to travel over there? have you traveled there frequently? does this affect you at all? >> i've certainly traveled to moscow, to siberia, st. petersburg. i've been on the defense preparations committee for about 20 years. obviously i've been to russia a number of times and i've gone

with people like jim billington who is one of the foremost russian scholars who is our librarian of congress. i'm familiar with russia. i love the russian people. but i certainly don't have much regard for the current regime. this kind of thing was inevitable when mr. putin wants to consolidate his power with probably the non-muslim countries who he feels a cultural affinity with, that would include ukraine and some of the former soviet republics. this kind of thing -- he can't act in such a unilateral thuggish way. so i've been very much opposed to their current policy. but i certainly think russia has the potential to be one of the great nations of the world. it has at times in the past. >> i twoont thank congressman jim moran, democrat from virginia. we want to turn to nina

khrushchev, granddaughter of former premier nick kite tea khrushchev and associate professor at the new school. let's start with the issue, again, the news this morning is about the bodies being recovered and were apparently seized by the rebels at gunpoint. we know the dutch prime minister has apparently communicated with vladimir putin basically saying for the moment, please, let's put aside all the world geopolitics and think like human beings, it's crucial to our country to have these bodies back. is that an appeal in this climate that's likely to mean anything from vladimir put tin? >> it should. he likes to appear as a kind person, a person who cares about the people of his nation and should be reacting humanely. so far he hasn't shown anything. vladimir putin is a very smart man. he cannot not understand what kind of implications of his behavior, his reaction is being

delayed. i do hope probably somewhere, some adviser would say you need to go there, you need to meet with these people, you really need to say even from putin's perspective russia does look like a futile country of the 21st century. this is something he doesn't want to do. he just did the sochi olympics in february to prove to the world that it is a modern country. how do you reconcile those things? i think that's a good question for putin. >> i'm eefr curious what you think his mindset is. we always talk about what putin does when he's backed into a corner. we have the investigation going on. it certainly looks like this was an errant thing where the rebels -- some coordination with the russians shot down what they had no idea was a commercial flight. then they found out and what do we do now. from putin's standpoint, does he feel very defensive, scared about what the implications are, or you think he's feeling connie

dent? >> i think exactly that, he feels defensive. he's afraid because he really did not want that to happen. it did happen. i think -- this is a cause and effect. the swagger, once again, we've seen it in the last three days. it comes because he doesn't feel confident. that often happens with the russian leaders, even the best of them. the worse they feel about their country, the more they need to prove to the world that actually they have nothing to fear or have nothing to worry about, i think putin really hasn't amended his original message from three days ago that it's ukraine's fault, that there was no ukrainian military efforts there, then that wouldn't have happened. he really took no responsibility whatsoever. >> inside russia -- i saw there was a poll that came out the other day that said his approval rating at russia sits at 83%, the highest since 2008. when he says this is ukraine's fault, no responsibility here, sort of blames the west, do

russians believe that? >> russians believe that supposedly because all tv is taken by the kremlin. russians should be believing that, in a sense that those interviewed believing that are the ones being found by the kremlin, sort of the kremlin founded journalists or kremlin funded channels. i used to workality the dutch embassy years ago. i know it very well. my friends were sending me pictures from the dutch embassy. there are numerous, thousands of notes, please forgive us. russians actually do understand that they are not absolved from responsibility in any way. i really don't think that that supported 83% if these events would continue. they would continue if putin doesn't do anything to present himself in a more modern way or more humane way. this kind of tragedy would continue and i don't think his

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it's an understatement to say these days senator elizabeth warren is in demand. she's attended fund-raisers for sherrod brown in ohio, jeff merckley in oregon, senator patty murray in washington. she isn't bringing her populist message only to the blue states, she's been stumping for democratic candidates far into the deeply red states as well. >> i'm here because i believe in democracy. i believe in what we can do

together, i believe in natalie tennant. she's going to be your next senator. >> elizabeth warren campaigning this last monday fortunately tennant democratic senate nominee in what has become the very red state of west virginia. last month warren was on the campaign trail for allison lungren grimes trying to knock out mitch mcconnell in ken tuck kichlt these are states where president obama was annihilated in 2012, lost by well over 20 points. west virginia and kentucky have been moving toward the republican column for years, but swung dramatically in that direction during the obama years. any democrat running from office is not only to stay away from president obama, but to stay away from every national democrat. anyone associated with the national democratic party. and yet, here are these two democratic senate candidates inviting into their states in full public view a woman who emerged as a hero to the

progressive base of the national democratic party. conventional wisdom would say elizabeth warren is about the last person a democratic stat candidate in a red state would want to be identified with. warren helped tennant and grimes bring in badly needed money, more than $200,000 for grimes last month. these candidates are saying there is something about warren's message, the same message that gets heads nodding in the most liberal pockets in america that resonates in deeply red rural america. that said, it can be a fine line to walk. just before warren's visit, natalie tennant told a reporter she would stand up for elizabeth warren on the issue of coal. this is a web video that karl rove's pact american crossroads released this week. >> you built a factory out there, good for you. you take a hunk of that and pay forward, you take a hunk of that and pay forward. >> i applaud president obama.

i applaud president obama. the epa's proposal is a powerful step. >> barack obama squared his shoulders, planted his feet and stood firm and that's how we won. joining me now in natalie tennant democratic senate candidate from west virginia. welcome back to the show. that video we just played, the clip they show at the start of that, of elizabeth warren talking off the cuff at that fund-raiser a few years ago, it strikes me that clip is what sort of made her a star to the national democratic base. they said, wow, the issue of income equality has never been more forcefully and coherently addressed than it was in the clip from elizabeth warren. at the same time republicans look at your state and say that is the perfect weapon to use against her in west virginia. explain for us, in a state like west virginia that voted for

mitt romney by such a large mission in 2012, what specifically is it about elizabeth warren that resonates in such a pro romney state? >> well, what those 450 people who were crowded into that ballroom on monday saw and said was that we, the middle class, deserve to have someone who is standing up for them, and whether it's natalie tennant or whether it's elizabeth warren that, is our main focus here. when you talk about the 450 people in this room, i think about ashley, the student who introduced me who has done everything we've asked her to do. she stayed at home so she could afford to go to collegiate a small school. she went through college and paid her bills by being a waitress and then went on to law school. now she's going to graduate law school with $108,000 in debt. so that rally for the middle class, that rally for students is to be able to tell her that, yes, natalie tennant will stand up to washington who try to give

tax breaks to the billionaires like warren buffett when we should be helping out and helping students to be able to refinance. that's why the message of elizabeth warren and of me saying we will stand up for west virginians is so strong and so powerful. >> i take that point. at the same time when i look at elizabeth warren, one of the reasons she's become so popular with democrats nationally, she is so good at expressing in such a digestible way what progressives are thinking about the issues. at the same time, her voting record, her basic orientation on the issues, very similar to president obama's. i look at president obama and i look at how his numbers in your state, his numbers in west virginia, they're sort of rock bottom there. what is it that west virginians see in elizabeth warren that they don't see in barack obama? >> well, if you take a look at elizabeth warren and you see what she has done, even before she was a united states senator, it was to stand up for consumer

protection. and that's what west virginians are asking for. this is not about elizabeth warren, not about barack obama. this is a race between me and my opponent where west virginians see a clear choice between me and congresswoman capita. someone like me who has a record of standing up for small businesses, cutting my own budget and saving $3 million for the taxpayers, giving it back to the taxpayers where my opponent has allowed and voted for the ceos of huge banks being bailed out by taxpayers to get huge bonuses and increases. so right there is really the story line of this race, who is truly representing west virginia and who is representing washington and wall street? >> again, we play that clip there from karl rove's group. they think this is an opportunity for them to score some points, link you to somebody who they say is identified with the liberal wing of the democratic party. it does strike me someone in

your race or alison grimes in kentucky would be calling in such a nationally prominent democratic figure. what about president obama, would you want president obama to come in and campaign for you? >> well, there are a couple things. i'll get back to that. each of our definitions, steve, because i love when we talk, we can have a good conversation. my definition of a red state is probably a little different than yours. if president obama came to west virginia, he would have a lot of explaining to do. he would have to explain about why his focus is hurting our coal miners and hurting the coal miners' jobs. especially when the president and his administration with gina mccarthy, the epa director, touted the fact that they're going to go all around the country and have these listening tours, but yet they don't bother to come to west virginia and talk to the people directly of who he's going impact, their livelihoods and howe they make a

live sglg sounds like you don't want him to campaign for you then? >> well, i will work with anyone who will put west virginia forward. in west virginia when you take a look at how i've done in this state when it comes to the president and me. the last two elections, i've been on the ballot in 2008 and 2012 and won with more than 60% of the ballot, when the president was on the ballot. he will have explaining to do if he ever came to west virginia. that's what we've asked. we asked for the epa director to come and listen to our concerns of west virginia. before you put on unrealistic regulations on us, invest in west virginia in the advanced technologies where we can put emissions and save jobs at the same time. >> all right. natalie ten navntr nant, democratic nominee from west virginia. thanks for coming on. more on what it means for democrats like elizabeth warren to try to stump in red state america. talk about that with the panel. that's next. afternoon arrives and feeling good,

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elizabeth warren is left of the left of the democratic party. elizabeth warren is a part of the war on coal, part of the united states senate blocking legislation to preserve coal jobs, to preserve energy jobs in america. >> liz bethd warren wasn't the only big name stumping in west virginia. that's congressman paul ryan who used the appearance to come out for republican shelly more capito. the anti elizabeth warren message. let's continue the discussion with former aide to senator hillary clinton, stephen moore, author of "wealth of states" and wesley lowery with "the washington post" is back with us. i've got to say, listening to that interview and natalie tennant to me, that is the voice of an ambitious democrat in red state america in the obama era. it's interesting that she feels comfortable bringing elizabeth warren to her state and having public events with her.

i ask about president obama, he's got some explaining to do. >> right. what i find interesting is that, if you couple that with the fact that you have a lot of democrats running this year this are not taughting obamacare, this is about the democratic base, otherwise they wouldn't be energized to come out. if you're looking for a great cheerleader for the party and someone that will energize the base, i think warren -- >> is that what it is, she energizes the base and the backlash isn't there as with obama. >> sn. >> if republicans lose west virginia, they shouldn't be a party. it's an energy state. by the way, it's not just a state that produces clean coal, it's also a state that's capitalized on the huge drilling phenomenon with the smart drilling. you go to wheeling, west virginia, they're getting richard off of this stuff and president obama and elizabeth warren want to shut that down. there are whole towns in west virginia that have been

vaporized by this war against coal. >> that's the other interesting thing. that's one distinction natalie tennant drew. so much for country hospitality. elizabeth warren comes in, she'll stand up to her on the so-called war on coal. it's a balancing act. >> there's a reason you're seeing people like natalie tennant distance themselves from president obama and embrace elizabeth warren. elizabeth warren is touting a populist message. rand paul could have written the book and changed some of the bio and you would have believed most of what was in it because her message is largely, hey, we need to look out for the little guy. everyone agrees with that. there's a big difference versus someone like president obama, he's the person occupying the oval office and there's dysfunction in washington. >> let me ask you a question. i'm obviously on the

conservative side, more a republican. i don't see how democrats pull this off? how do they say the middle class is getting crushed, and they are. this has been the worst recovery from a recession we've seen since the great depression. republicans say, look, you've been in charge for six years. in fact, this is the republican message, not the democratic message. >> what wegsly was saying there, it strikes me that the opportunity for somebody like elizabeth warren and message for her in a red state, when you goat to an area beyond what's associated with the party, when you get to where rand paul is, you're seen as operating outside those party institutions and you're upset at washington, at wall street and upset at all these big institutions. maybe there's some left-right overlap? >> explain this. how do democrats explain the meltdown of the middle class over the last six years? they've been in charge. >> i think part of the explanation is congress.

part of it is i think buyer's remorse with the president. very early on you had a lot of wealthier liberals supporting his campaign. that's what sort of elevated him and created the viability that we saw very early on. i think there's a little bit of buyer's remorse. some of it is race. some of it is existing with the party of no. i think in an election year like 2014, what happens is you need that kind of energy that i think warren can provide. when it comes to 2016, i wonder if that actually works because you're also going to have to consider the constraints of the office and whether or not the person you elect is going to be able to work within those constraints. >> my only response would be i think you're right when it comes to blue states and energizing the liberal base. i don't see how bringing elizabeth warren into red states is going to help democrats. she's toxic to conservatives. it would be like bringing sarah palin into new york. >> there's always this tribal

aspect to american politics where barack obama is the enemy to the right. it almost doesn't matter what he saw. i'm wondering has that message trickled down when it comes to elizabeth warren yet or does she have more room to maneuver? >> it has trickled down to an extent. can you bring someone like elizabeth warren in and it not drive republicans to the polls. does natalie tennant bring president obama in? every single gop county board is going to say, look, the president is coming in. >> he'll pass resolutions. >> banning her from appearance. if you bring her to west virginia or kentucky, does it drive republicans? if it doesn't, does it drive democrats or drive democrats who might have set out midterms to maybe cut a check? that's only a net positive for somebody like natalie tennant. >> obama is very unpopular in red states. they're going to say elizabeth warren, who is she?

she's mini me. >> i'm wondering if beyond firing up the base there is an opening there, if this is the kind of message that could reach sort of -- there's a left wing and right wing populism. >> rand paul is saying a lot of what elizabeth warren is saying in the sense he's saying these policies haven't worked. the middle class is losing income. we have to look out for the middle class. that will be a primary republican message in 2014 and 2015. >> strike that tone right in the middle. dysfunctional government. they're not doing enough or doing way too much. if you can strike that tone -- >> it's the same institutions, that failed. washington, wall street, big institutions have failed. that's the thing i'm kicking. we will see all my guests later in the show. next, the clearer sign yet that chris christie might be planning a run for president. stay with us.

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no one has reported more on the scandal plaguing governor christie than this show. the bigger question is whether the scandal is having any impact in the rest of the country. christie traveled to iowa this week, officially he was there to campaign for governor terry branstad, but branstad probably won't need much help. so his trip may have more to do with his own political aspirations. he plans to visit new hampshire later this month. he was there only a couple weeks ago, too. top adviser to mitt romney's campaign said this week he doesn't think the bridge scandal will be a factor in christie getting the nomination for the white house. christie insists he hasn't yet decided what his 2016 plans are. >> i've been pretty clear. i certainly am going to consider it. but whether i do it or not is something i honestly don't know yet. people say that all the time and

folks are fairly cynical, and folks are, yeah, yeah, he knows what he's going to do. i really don't know what i'm going to do. >> potentially discouraging numbers for christie, a third of republicans in iowa view him unfavorably. 31% of new hampshire republicans view him negatively as well. here to talk about the numbers is kathy brad vich, political columnist from the "des moines register" from iowa and stephen moore with the heritage foundation is still with us. kathy, you're getting to be an old pro at this. christie is in iowa. they're trying to figure out if this scandal should dissuade them from supporting him. what was the reception like that you saw this week? >> they treated chris christie like a rock star. this was his first big trip to iowa, drew big crowds, people going gaga over him.

i went to a restaurant in marion, iowa, where he just did a walk through and it was packed, people spilling out into the streets, people having their baseballs signed. >> is that different than the other candidates? is that in a different league? >> i think so in the sense that that there's a novelty factor with chris christie. some of the other candidates, you can see them and say hello with your morning coffee just about every other week. chris christie just hasn't been here, and a big personality, somebody that people are seeing in the news all the time. there's a lot of curiosity. >> in terms of the republican, sort of more -- the republican elites in iowa, when they look at the george washington bridge scandal, what do they think about that? do they say, hey, this is a ticking time bomb here or do they say liberal media, never

mind, we don't care. >> some republicans i talk to kind of brushed it off as being, oh, a democratic manufactured scandal or something that doesn't matter at all. our governor, terry branstad said that iowans don't know anything about it. i don't think that's true of republican caucus-goers. i think they are paying attention. they are assuming that they won't have to make a decision about chris christie unless he's in the clear legally. they're already saying that is something that is not a big deal and we're going to pay attention to the person and what he stands for. >> so steve moore, looking at this nationally, i'm trying to figure out the republican race right now for 2016. >> we all are. >> the thing about christie, we look at these scandals and say why would they ever take a chance on somebody like that? i'm looking at people seriously talking about mitt romney running again. i'm looking at polls in nevada that have him way up. in that world is the christie

thing so crazy? >> first of all, it's interesting. the guy is looking tan, rested and ready. is it just me or has he lost a lot of weight? >> he has, yes. >> he's liked a lot by republicans because he's tough, plain spoken, been a problem solver in new jersey. the problem is, as a travel around the country, i haven't been to iowa, but i've been around a lot of states. you mention chris christie, the first thing that comes up is the bridge. that's a big problem for him. if you asked me, steve, who the republican nominee was going to be, i would have said chris christie. it's his turn. republicans always nominate the one who is next in line. to mix metaphors, i don't think so far he's gotten over that bridge. >> i guess the question is, if you look -- to me you look at sort of the rand paul, ted cruz, and there's that wing of the party. i could potentially see a guy like rand paul getting the nomination. i couldn't see a cruz getting it. from that republican

establishment side of things, i don't think jeb bush is running. so again -- >> you're exactly right. i talked to a lot of the big republican donors over the last four weeks, the people who supported mitt romney in a big way. they're confused. they haven't decided yet. a lot of them wanted to my great to jeb bush. don't write governor bush off. they're not sure whether jeb is going to run. that's why you saw this boom for mitt romney. don't write chris christie off. i still think he can resurrect himself. a blue state republican, that's something a lot of republicans who want to win in 2016 find very appealing. >> there is an asterisk with all christie presidential talk. i want to thank kathy oh brad vich, we'll be coming to you in nongts and years ahead. we want to catch you up on the scandal plaguing the christie administration. there was big testimony while he

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while chris christie was crisscrossing iowa, an aide said she sent him text messages that dealt with the fallout of the lane closures and she deleted those text messages. a top official working inside the governor's office during those closures, including his liaison to the port authority, testified she would text the governor frequently. he would respond, quote, at times. since then she has deleted them. it's unclear what exactly the messages actually said. >> when you deleted these things, did you think then or now that it could have violated some ethical law? as i've said, we've all been refreshed on the requirement to retain documents. i think in the current procedures that we're all following, i would not.

>> she also told the committee she thought the allegations about the lane closures were little more than a political spat within the port authority. >> the continuing public comment on this without any evidence frankly reinforced in my mind any way that i wasn't sure there was any evidence to be produced. so i was awaiting it. so i viewed it as much more of a political/public disagreement. >> as agia was testifying, we learned from the u.s. attorney investigating the case, paul fishman who rarely speaks publicly about the investigation, but he did this week. he denied recent reports that indictments were imminent. he didn't single out any report. esqui"esquire" magazine ran an article in which it said fishman was closing in on the administration in that four christie aides could be indicted. joining me is brian murphy, associate professor at brook college who was at the hearing

on thursday. the key point about regina agia, september 13th, the day that pat foye realizes what's been going on with the lane closures, puts this scathing e-mail together that says laws were broken here. christie's guy at the port authority, takes that, marks it urgent, forwards it to regina in the governor's office. >> and then she does nothing, says she's going to wait for foye to do his own investigation and claims she never gave it anymore thought than that. >> she doesn't share this with anybody else, doesn't forward it, doesn't talk about it? >> no. she's reminded us many times, she's working in the counsel's office, but she's not a lawyer. she said she trusted lawyers to handle it. >> in terms of these texts then, there's no hint of context here of what these are about? >> you had to wait four hours in

this hearing to have it come out, where she offhand mentions, i sent the governor texts when port authority officials were testifying back officials were back in november. she let the governor know that she thought their performance was professional and credible. she doesn't mention that they were saying that they were afraid to interfere with the lane closures because they thought they were going to lose their jobs if they say anything. she thought their performance was credible and she also did that while she was working on shaping bill baroney's opening statement which a line she stuck to throughout that hearing. >> she kept saying traffic study. >> she kept talking about whether or not it was fair for there to be, she's the last person on earth who seems to still think. >> that was the big bill baroney line, the reality of the situation, this is not anything.

>> she called it a script and said they stuck to the script. she's sticking to the script like much of the committee are like, give us a break, this is like believing in the tooth fairy. in that respect, interesting performance, but she just mentions these texts off hand. oh, i sent them and i deleted them and, you know, how often did you send them? infrequently. sometimes he wrote back. she doesn't remember when she deleted them. it could have become after the bridget kelly e-mails came public in january in which point no one should have been deleting anything. it just opened up so many questions as to answer. >> the statement from the u.s. attorney from paul fishman who seems to be putting cold water on a really explosive report saying maybe not even that, but we don't really know what is going on inside that office. what he is looking at and what he isn't looking at. brian murphy, thank you for taking the time to explain that

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it's time to find out i think our guests should know for the week ahead. >> if you didn't catch it earlier in the week, donna brazille, former governor grant home in strickland created democrats for public education which is really interesting because ilths it's pushing back gebs obama era reforms and school choice. >> they are against school choice? >> i don't know if they're against school choice, but an interesting counter to some of the activity that has been going on. >> we have been talking about an interesting democratic divide. steve? >> a big vote on the fate of the export/import bank. it will be very fascinating to see which party lines up in favor of corporate favoritism and corporate welfare and which won't. i'll tell you this, i bet elizabeth warren your favorite middle class savior will vote

for corporate croneyism. >> brian? >> i'm really curious to see what happens to the bodies in the refrigerated car in russia. i think we're seeing what it is like to live in a multi-polar world where we have a state not interesting in stability which is foreign relations. seeing how that plays out, that will be fascinating. >> i think i'm really fascinated on this gardner story, front page of "daily news" today. the man taken into custody by new york police and end eed up dying. obviously, legal political fallout, bill de blasio had to delay his trip a day and there is -- watching that video reminded me, do the right thing. the city of a lot of racial police tension and this is a really, really interesting case to see how this plays out. that's what i'm watching. >> thank you for joining us.

thank you, everyone, for tuning in at home. we'll be back here next weekend and stick around melissa harris-perry will have the latest. the downed malaysian airplanes. don't go anywhere, mhp is next.

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we've got a spike in temperature. so save the day... don't worry, i got this... oh yeah, i see your spaceship's broken. with xlte on largest, most reliable network. get 50% off smartphones like the new lg g3. this morning, my question. why does it take nearly two years to get an immigration court ruling? plus, what it means to live in a war zone. and how the browning of america could reshape the electoral map. but, first, today's headlines. 100 years in the making. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. it's the middle of summer. a time when many of us hope to enjoy warm weather and maybe lazy hours with friends and family or a good book and a cold drink. we might even c