people move out to the fields, to work the fields early in the morning. that morning they weren't. >> how soon after the attack began were you wounded yourself? >> it was in the initial barrage of rpgs and hand grenades that i was wounded. there wasn't really any pain, but i knew i had been hurt pretty bad because i tried to move my legs and couldn't move my feet at all. my biggest concern in the moment was just trying to gain my bearings. i had kind of been shell shocked a little bit. i had been hit on my inner thigh with a piece of shrapnel, and i knew there was a major blood vessel in there. my left arm was injured a little bit as well. >> you're very badly wounded. you're surrounded. it's not going well. did you think you would survive? >> it didn't really enter my mind until i was by myself for a little bit at the o.p. that was about the only time i thought i was going to die. >> yet you carried on.

why? >> it's the only thing to do. everybody else was fighting. i wasn't going to go without a fight. >> does talking with ryan about it and talking with the mates in his platoon about that day, does that make you feel more a part of it? does it help in being married to this guy? >> it helps. i try to understand. i don't think i'll ever understand completely. but to try and support him as best i can, it is good having him share, having the other guys share. it does make you feel more a part of it. understand isn't the right word. but to empathize as much as possible and to just be there in as much capacity and support that you can. >> what did you think when you got the call? what was your reaction? >> never felt that i deserved it. still don't.

didn't do anything different than anybody else that day. we did it as a team. as far as the call goes, it was very surreal. i don't remember a lot of what the president said to me. it was brief. but i thought i was prepared for it. it was just a lot of, yes, sir, thank you, mr. president, okay, you have a good day too, bye. that was the gist of it. >> maybe too early to tell, but how has your life changed already? >> that day changed my life in the sense that i have an appreciation of life now that i didn't have before. i look at the sacrifices that those guys made. corporal matt phillips, lieutenant john brostrom, corporal jason bogar, corporal jonathan and the sacrifices they

made so the rest of us could come home. and i'm not going to waste this gift that i have. i don't feel it's that day or the award or any of that has changed me as a person. but it's changed, i think, my responsibilities a little bit. i feel a responsibility to tell our story because there's nine guys who can't. >> colonel jack jacobs joins us now along with iraq war veteran john sultz. colonel jack, you talked with staff sergeant pitts and his wife, of course, there. my goodness. to suffer such a serious injury and yet keep going, it's so inspiring. it's so courageous. it makes me think about how incredibly well he was trained and what incredible character that this man has. >> yeah, i think those two things exactly are correct. also, he was surrounded by people he loved. when you're in a difficult situation, you actually do love

the people you're with, and you do things for them because you know they'd do it for you in the same circumstance. it's something that can't be reproduced in any other situation except the crucible of war. when everybody has a high degree of confidence, especially in this circumstance, that it's not going to turn out well. your first reaction is always, this is not really happening. it's not supposed to happen. it's not really happening. then very soon, you come to the realization that it's not only happening, but it's happening to you. and that ultimately, you may not survive. i think it's at times like that, that people's character really come to the fore. i teach at west point still, and i get asked by kids who are about ready to graduate each spring whether or not i think that they'll have it, if they get into a difficult situation and have to be called on, do you

think i'll be able to do it? my response from experience is always the same. yes, you will. i've never been in a situation when people didn't rise, no matter who they were, and no matter how bad the circumstances are because you're always fighting for each other. >> and john, you can see his character, not just in the way that he responded in that battle in the fog and the heat of war, but also in the way that he receives this great award with such humility and selflessness. always deflecting from himself to his comrades in arms who were there with him, saying this is our, no the mine, it belongs to them and their loved ones just as much as it belongs to me. those guys saved my life and a lot of other people's lives that day. for me, it's an individual award for a collective effort. pretty remarkable words there. >> yeah, it was humbling, actually, to watch the interview. when you talk to a lot of medal of honor winners, i'm sure colonel jacobs would agree, you

wear it for the people who didn't make it. over half of those who have received the medal of honor passpass passed away, only nine from iraq and afghanistan are still living. certainly, his humility here and the way he's receiving this honor is to be commended. there's a lot of other people from his unit now, three from the 173rd brigade, that served in afghanistan during that 15-month deployment that are living recipients of the award. i think all of them have been consistent with the fact that they want to remember those who fell. this was a very controversial battle where nine other soldiers died not only with him but fighting for his life. i think, you know, his humility here should be commended. >> why do you say it's controversial, john? >> well, the way that they went into the village. you know, they had only been there for 48 to 72 hours. they were setting up a combat outpost. there was only one combat brigade in the entire rc east. they were overrun very quickly. there's been a tremendous amount of investigating of this battle inside the military.

some of the parents have been very involved. some of the colonels were reprimanded and the reprimands were lifted. it's been controversial. we pulled out of the location a week later. it was part of what led to the review in early 2009 of obama administration about what we were doing in afghanistan. it was the height of the surge. i think one of the major reasons you're seeing so many medal of honors from the 173rd airborne brigade during this 15-month deployment is they were completely overwhelmed. it's not what we want when you have 200 taliban troops attacking an outpost which wasn't even a company-sized element. that dynamic has been looked at time and time again since that moment. >> and colonel, you asked sergeant pitts in that interview, was there ever a moment where you thought that you were going to die? he said, there was one point when we thought, this was the end. because towards the end of this operation, he was by himself. everyone that was involved, many of whom tried -- helped to save him, had lost their life.

how much, how symbolic is this honor for everyone that was involved, and how much responsibility does he now feel to carry that on? >> it's a huge responsibility. i may have told this story the last time we talked about a medal of honor recipient. after i was decorated, i went to a dinner of the medal of honor recipients. they used to get together every other year. jimmy doolittle told me your life is changed and you have a responsibility you didn't have before. >> indeed. thank you so much for that, colonel jack. the president is entering the east room now. this is the medal of honor ceremony for staff sergeant ryan pitts. ♪ >> let us pray. almighty god, today as we honor an american soldier deserving of our nation's highest respect and thanks, he received this admiration for the valor, bravery and heroism he

displayed. he's made his country proud, added forever to his unit's legacy. he's of the chosen few to receive this honor today as the nation pauses to recognize him. our hearts are touched by staff sergeant ryan pitts who has humbly insisted his remarkable actions during the battle of wanat were simply his duty, that it was and always will be on his loyalty to his unit. we acknowledge that same devotion came from the legacy of a faithful family, somebody who cared for, supported, and prayed for sergeant pitts. we join our hearts together as we honor his desire, remember the nine soldiers he continues to respect by his deeds each day. by honoring him today, we honor the courage and commitment of all who serve in harm's way. this we pray in your holy name,

amen. >> amen. >> good afternoon, everybody. welcome to the white house. please be seated. for our forces in afghanistan, the battle of wanat was one of the most fierce of this entire war. 48 americans along with their afghan partners were manning their small base deep in a valley when they were attacked by some 200 insurgents. and those insurgents seemed determined to overrun an even smaller post just outside the base, an elevated patch of boulders and sandbags defended by just nine american soldiers. soon, under the relentless fire, all nine of these men were wounded or killed.

insurgents broke through the wire. that little post was on the verge of falling, giving the enemy a perch from which to devastate the base below. against that onslaught, one american held the line. just 22 years old, nearly surrounded, bloodied, the soldier we recognize today with our nation's highest military decoration, the medal of honor, staff sergeant ryan m. pitts. now, i don't want to embarrass ryan, but the character he displayed that day was clearly forged early. i'm told that in kindergarten when asked what he wanted to be when he grew up, he drew a picture of a soldier. when he was in the fifth grade, his teacher sent home a note that described ryan in words that would be familiar to all those who knew him today. ryan, she wrote, is a very

special human being. in ryan pitts, you see the humility and loyalty that define america's men and women in uniform. with this medal, he says, it's not mine alone. it belongs to everybody who was there that day because we did it together. so i want to welcome those who were there that day. ryan's brothers in arms and those who are going to be welcoming him into their ranks, the members of the medal of honor society. we are very proud of them, and we are honored by the presence of the families of our fallen heroes as well. we welcome ryan's family, many from new hampshire, including his wonderful wife amy. i have to take a pause because they are actually celebrating, ryan and amy, their second anniversary today. as ryan put it, it's going to be tough topping this one.

as anniversaries go. let me give you a piece of advice from somebody who's now been married over 20 years. you should try. i'm just saying. don't rest on your laurels after just two years. we welcome their gorgeous son, 1-year-old lucas, who ryan has began to teach a love for all things new england. of course, the red sox and the bruins and the celtics and the pats. i want you to try and imagine the extraordinary circumstances in which ryan and his team served. this was the summer of 2008, and this was a time when our forces in afghanistan were stretched thin and our troops were deployed to isolated outposts. they had just arrived in wanat just days before. they were still building their very small base. a handful of armored vehicles and fox holes and sandbags.

wanat, one report later concluded, had significant vulnerabilities. parts of the village sat on higher ground. on every side, mountains soared 10,000 feet into the sky. heavy equipment to help build their defenses was delayed. in the 100-degree heat, the soldiers ran low on water. and the aerial surveillance they were counting on was diverted away to other missions. early that morning in the predawn darkness, they spotted several men up the mountains. before ryan and his team could take action, the entire valley erupted. machine gunfire and mortar and rocket-propelled grenades poured down from every direction. those 200 insurgents were firing from ridges and from the village and from trees. down at the base, a vehicle exploded, scattering its missiles back at our soldiers. it was, said a soldier, hell on earth. up at their tiny post, ryan and his team were being pounded.

almost instantly every one of them was wounded. ryan was hit by shrapnel in the arm and both legs and was bleeding badly. already three american soldiers in that valley had fallen and then a fourth. as the injusurgents moved in, rn picked up a grenade, held the pin, timely hurling it so they couldn't throw it back. he did it again and again. unable to stand, ryan pulled himself up on his knees and manned a machine gun. soldier from the base below made a daring run, dodging bullets and explosions and joined the defense. but now the enemy was inside the post, so close they were throwing rocks at the americans. so close they came right up to the sandbags. eight american soldiers had now fallen, and ryan pitts was the only living soldier at that post. the enemy was so close ryan could hear their voices. he whispered into the radio he

was the only one left and running out of ammo. i was going to die, he remembers, and made my peace with it. then he prepared to make a last stand. bleeding and barely conscious, ryan threw his last grenades. he grabbed a grenade launcher and fired nearly straight up so the grenade came back down on the enemy just yards away. one insurgent was now right on top of the post, shooting down, until another team of americans showed up and drove them back. as one of his teammates said, had it not been for ryan pitts, that post almost certainly would have been overrun. even with reinforcements, the battle was not over. another wave of rocket-propelled grenades slammed into the post. nine americans were now gone. and still, the fighting raged. ryan worked the radio, helping target the air strikes that were hitting danger close, just yards away. and with those strikes, the tide of the battle began to turn. eventually the insurgents fell

back. ryan and his fellow soldiers had held their ground. this medal, ryan says, is an opportunity to tell our story. there was valor everywhere, according to ryan. and so today we also pay tribute to all who served with such valor that day, shielding their wounded buddies with their own bodies, picking up unexploded missiles with their hands and carrying them away, running through the gunfire to reinforce that post, fighting through their injuries and never giving up. helicopter pilots and medevac crews who came in under heavy fire. said one soldier, never in my career have i seen such bravery and sacrifice. so i would ask all those who served at wanat, on the ground and in the air, to please stand, those of you who are here today. [ applause ]

>> most of all, ryan says he considers this mel medal a memorial for the guys who didn't come home. so today we honor nine american soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice for us all. the son who absorbed love like a sponge, the expectant father whose dream would later come true, a beautiful baby girl, specialist sergio abat. the boy who dominated the soccer fields, fell in love with motorcycles and there in that remote outpost took a direct hit in the helmet and kept on fighting, corporal jonathan ayers. the photographer whose beautiful pictures captured the spirit of

the afghan people and who wrote to his family, afghanistan is exactly where i wanted to be, corporal jason bogar. the father who loved surfing with his son, the platoon leader who led a dash through the gunfire to that post to reinforce his men, first lieutenant jonathan brostrom. an immigrant from mexico who became a proud american soldier on his third tour whose final thoughts were of his family and his beloved wife leslie, sergeant israel garcia. a young man of deep faith who served god and country who could always get a laugh with his impersonation of his commander, corporal jason hovader. the husband who couldn't wait to become an uncle, the adventurous spirit who in every photo from afghanistan has a big smile on his face, corporal matthew phillips. the big guy with an even bigger heart, a prankster whose best play was cleaning up at the

poker table with his buddys and dad, corporal pruitt rainey. and the youngest of the platoon, who loved to play the guitar and says his dad did everything in his life with passion, corporal gunnar zwilling. these american patriots lived to serve us all. they died to protect each of us. their legacy lives on in the hearts of all who love them still, especially their families. mothers, fathers, wives, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters. to you, their families, i know no words can match the depth of your loss, but please know that this nation will honor your soldiers now and forever. and i would ask the gold-star families from that deployment to please stand, including ally kaler, age 11, and jac jace brostrom, who this week turns 12. please stand.

[ applause ] >> this is the story ryan wants us to remember. soldiers who loved each other like brothers and who fought for each other and families who have made a sacrifice that our nation must never forget. ryan says, i think we owe it to them to live lives worthy of their sacrifice. and he's absolutely right. as commander in chief, i believe one of the ways we can do that is by heeding the lessons of wanat. when this nation sends our troops into harm's way, they deserve a sound strategy and a well-defined mission, and they deserve the forces and support

to get the job done. that's what we owe soldiers like ryan and all the comrades that were lost. that's how we can truly honor all those who gave their lives that day. that's how as a nation we can remain worthy of their sacrifice. i know that's a view that's shared by our secretary of defense and by our joint chiefs of staff and all the leadership here. they're hard lessons, but they're ones that are deeply engrained in our hearts. it is remarkable that we have young men and women serving in our military who day in, day out are able to perform with so much integrity, so much humility and so much courage. ryan represents the very best of that tradition. and we are very, very proud of him as we are of all of you.

so god bless you, ryan. god bless all who serve in our name. may god continue to bless the united states of america. and with that, i would like our military aide to please complete the ceremony. >> the president of the united states of america authorized by act of congress march 3rd 1863, has awarded in the name of congress the medal of honor to sergeant ryan m. pitts, united states army. for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. sergeant ryan m. pitts distinguished himself by extraordinary acts of heroism at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a forward observer in

second platoon, chosen company, second battalion airborne, 503rd infantry regiment during combat operations against an armed enemy at vehicle base in the vicinity of wanat village, kunar province, afghanistan. earlier that morning, while sergeant pitts was providing security, a well-organized anti-afghan force consistenting of over 200 members initiated close proximity using accurate and intense rocket-propelled grenade, machine gun and small arms fire on the patrol base. an immediate wave of rocket-propelled grenade grounds engulfed the observation post, wounding sergeant pitts and inflicting heavy casualties. sergeant pitts had been knocked to the ground and was bleeding heavily from shrapnel wounds to his arm and legs.

but with incredible toughness and resolve, resubsequently took control of the observation post and returned fire on the enemy. as the enemy drew nearer, sergeant pitts threw grenades, holding them after the pin was pulled and the safety lever was released to allow a nearly immediate detonation on the hostile forces. unable to stand on his own and near death because of the severity of his wounds and blood loss, sergeant pitts continued to lay suppressive fire until a two-man reinforcement team arrived. sergeant pitts quickly assisted them by giving up his main weapon and gathering ammunition, all while continually lobbing fragmentary grenades until these were expended. at this point, sergeant pitts crawled to the northern position radio and described the situation to the command post as the enemy continued to try and isolate the observation post from the main troll base. with the enemy close enough for him to hear their voices and with total disregard for his own life, sergeant pitts whispered

in radio situation reports and conveyed information that the command post use to provide indirect fire support. sergeant pitts' courage, steadfast commitment to the defense of his unit, and ability to fight while seriously wounded prevented the enemy from overrunning the observation post and capturing american soldieso. sergeant ryan m. pitts, extraordinary heroism and selflessness above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, company c, second battalion airborne, 503rd infantry regiment, 173rd airborne brigade and the united states army.

[ applause ] >> we have been watching the medal of honor ceremony being awarded to sergeant ryan pitts there in the east room of the white house. our colonel jack jacobs is still with us. colonel, you did, as we mentioned earlier, interview sergeant ryan pitts there and his wife. tell us about what we just saw there in terms of the import of this ceremony and also more broadly, we talk a lot in our politics about the cost of these wars in iraq and afghanistan and whether we all bear them equally and whether we take the time to think about the people lost. we heard there from the president and in your discussion with sergeant pitts a lot of discussion about those who didn't make it out of this battle. >> yeah, well, we don't bear the burden equally. you know, you look at somebody who believes in universal service, and i came into the army barely 20 years after the end of the second world war.

at a time where we had a draft -- i'm not in favor of a draft, because that's selective service. but when a larger proportion of our citizens served, we don't have that now. the good news is we have an all-volunteer force. they're very good at what they do. but the demands on our defense are such and on society as such that i think it's not a good thing that we have a very, very small number of people defending 320 million people. so we need to think about that a little bit. the burden on young people like sergeant pitts and his comrades is enormous, not just in situations like this, but we're at large to defend a very large country with threats around the world with a very, very small force. we need to think seriously about whether or not that's a very good idea. i, for one, do not think it's a very good idea. we need to have a situation in which everybody has some skin in the game. we do not, with respect to his

action and the actions of all of his comrades, i'll repeat what the president said. we have to be astonished at the skill and the commitment and our enormous luck of these -- that we have kids like this who are willing to do whatever it takes to defend the country and protect us and take care of each other. >> well, john, to the point that colonel jack just made and made earlier in the segment, the reason why people like staff sergeant pitts are able to do such courageous and selfless things is because of the love that they have for the men and women who are fighting alongside them. i'm sure you felt that for the men and women who were alongside you in iraq. weird as that love for each other develop? >> i think that's a question people always ask people in the military. people aren't born paratroopers. the army made these soldiers the way they were. they brought them together. they created camaraderie. they put them through a certain

amount of training and deployment. i agree with colonel jacobs. for the most part, i've actually never seen someone do the wrong thing in a deployment or combat situation. i think there's a tremendous amount of pressure. there's a lot of things going on that are crazy. you're trained and, you know, a lot of these people have been on multiple deployments. your training kicks over and you react. you have nothing else to do. you're in a situation here with sergeant pitts where it was do or die. they were using grenades and claymore mines and every type of ammunition they had. i think this is the way the army trains and creates its own leaders and soldiers. >> john sultz and colonel jack jacobs, thank you very much. up next, a busy afternoon for president obama, who also spoke today on the downing of mh-17. and there is breaking news on that front coming up. plus, more breaking news right now out of the middle east, where israel's prime minister is weighing in on the escalating

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at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know, can help you grow. they've repeatedly prevented international investigators from gaining full access to the wreckage. as investigators approached, they fired their weapons into the air. the separatists are removing evidence from the crash site, all of which begs the question, what exactly are they trying to hide? the burden now is on russia to insist that the separatists stop tampering with the evidence, grant investigators who are already on the ground immediate, full, and unimpeded access to the crash site. >> president obama today joining world leaders in demanding access to the wreckage of malaysia flight 17. the president says it is russia's responsibility to pressure the rebels who now have control of that site. and there is breaking news on that. the u.n. security council, including russia, just passed a

resolution condemning the attack and demanding the rebels allow safe and unrestricted access to that crash site. this as the remains of many of the crash victims have now been moved on to a refrigerated train out of rebel control. nbc's tom costello has the latest from washington. we've spoken before about the importance of recovering those black boxes in crash investigations. we know the rebels turned them over to malaysian authorities, but can we determine or not whether they've been tampered with? >> i think that's going to be difficult, but candidly, it's going to be difficult to tamper with a black box short of taking a sledge hammer to them. they're only read in laboratories that have the capability to read those black boxes. you've seen them at the ntsb here in washington before. of course, most of the world's major capital and agencies that do crash investigations have the technology to read the black boxes. the fact they've been handed

over to the malaysians, one would assume now they've asked the dutch to head up this investigation. it's entirely possible those black boxes will go to amsterdam. the dutch also have brought in a c-130 transport plane. they plan to take the bodies -- by the way, the bodies are now, we are told, moving. the train is moving. ultimately, those bodies will be put on to a dutch c-130 transport plane and taken to the netherlands where they'll begin the task of trying to identify them and return them to the families, both in the netherlands as well as the other countries involved, malaysia, australia, what have you. a couple of other important notes here. that is that russia, of course, is challenging the u.s. assertions here that russian-backed militants are responsible. the russians are making the point that, in fact, they claim there were other planes in the air that day, fighter jets belonging, they claim, to ukraine's government that also could have played a part in this.

there's an awful lot of, you might say, propaganda coming from russia, which incidentally does not have a free press anymore. the concern here very much is whether the information that's coming from some russian media is independent and is being vetted thoroughly by independent journalists. that continues to be a challenge. by the way, the osce, the organization for security and cooperation in europe, they have, of course, people on the ground which are really there to look at the security situation. they claim that today the situation in terms of access improved dramatically. also that dutch team on the scene today also said they felt that things had improved in terms of their access and claim they felt that the recovery workers on the ground had done as good of a job as they could at recovering the bodies and putting them in one location. four days late, of course, but felt that things are starting to improve there. so there is this international pressure coming to bear on the

rebels, on moscow, and now it seems that things are moving. the malaysians, by the way, they now admit, were kind of conducting these behind the scenes negotiations with the rebels, feeling they had to bypass kiev because kiev couldn't get anything done. so the malaysians talking directly to the rebels. now the rebels handling control of the black boxes over to the malaysians, and the malaysians asking the dutch to take control of the investigation. >> all right. at least some encouraging news there. nbc's tom costello, thank you as always. and our colleague kier simmons is at the crash site in eastern ukraine. >> reporter: hello, guys. there was clashes here at the train station in donetsk today, even as the president called for the region around the crash site to be a demilitarized zone. at the train station near the crash site where the bodies of the victims of flight mh-17 were being kept in a train car that was refrigerated, that train finally left today to go to a place where forensic examiners can begin the gruesome task of

trying to identify the victims. those forensic experts who also went to the crash site itself and declared themselves satisfied with the way that is being handled, but many people are not. there has been an international outcry of people's belongings being left lying around in places. we have seen what appears to be suitcases that have been opened, wallets that are empty. but the malaysian prime minister says he believes he has now got a guarantee from the pro-russian rebels that control this region that they will assure the safety of the investigators who hope to come here to begin the process of figure can go out exactly what happened. back to you guys. >> keir simmons in eastern ukraine. thank you so much. ambassador john herbst is the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine. thank you so much for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> we are getting word from the u.n. security council that

samantha power was there essentially condemning russia, but i wanted to ask you, sir, with your experience in ukraine, we heard tom costello reporting that the malaysians were essentially trying to go around kiev to gain better access to that crash site so that the investigation could proceed in a more uninhibited way. does the ukrainian government, the actual ukrainian government really have any influence on what's going on in this investigation at this point? >> the ukrainian government has no control over the place where the crash -- where the shootdown occurred. they have no control over the site. so it's understandable why the malaysian authorities would have dealt directly with the russia-backed and russian-led rebels. >> ambassador, building on that point then, when you look at this situation, the u.n. weighing in as we're reporting just today, trying to get a security council ultimatum here, some kind of pressure, what does that matter? what does that do?

what else from a diplomatic perspective should be done to secure the site? >> it's good the international community is demanding full and unfettered access to the site. of course, you had four days where the only people who had access to the site were the russian-led rebels and probably the people from moscow themselves. they could have manipulated the site to remove traces of evidence that, in fact, it was the rebels who shot down the plane. for example, will all parts of the aircraft where the missile struck be available for investigators to examine? these are questions worth asking. but most importantly, while the rebels prevented access to the site for four days since they shot down this airliner, russia has continued to send in armored vehicles, tanks into eastern ukraine in violation of all international norms. this is outrageous. >> ambassador, the kremlin, of course, controls russian made ya completely, so the russian people are getting a completely skewed vision of what's actually happening here.

and they remain incredibly supportive of their leader vladimir putin. that seems to give him a lot of freedom to operate as he wishes here. >> well, yes and no. certainly his people will support him because they don't have access to good information. just two weeks ago, president putin praised the towns of joseph goebbles. but if the international community specifically the west were to impose serious penalties on the kremlin for its aggression in ukraine, the russian economy would suffer and the russian people would not be happy with the policies of their government. today's papers are full of stories about the fears of large russian businessmen. they're appalled by putin's policies. they know it could bring ruin to the russian economy. now, the united states put down very serious sanctions last wednesday. that was excellent. before the plane was shot down. unfortunately, europe put down very weak sanctions at that

time. it's important now for the europeans to step up, to demonstrate they understand the danger presented by putin's aggressive policies in ukraine. >> on that note, i mean, vladimir putin, you mentioned the kremlin has control of russian media, but he probably has free access to whatever he wants to read. he's a smart guy. he has a sense of the mood of the united states back here at home. he understands and knows that there's a real lack of appetite for involvement abroad. take a look at this recent poll that politico did, if we can pull this up. they asked whether the u.s. should do more to counter russian aggression in ukraine. only 17% gave an affirmative yes while 34% said the u.s. should actually pull back. mind you, this was taken before the plane went down. how does this play into putin's head? as he's evaluating his next step, knowing president obama only has so much leverage with his own people, how does that play into putin's mind games? >> well, there's no question that america's misadventures in

iraq and afghanistan have made the american people shy about further active engagement abroad. that's unfortunate. because there are important security issues which demand our attention. but in this crisis in ukraine, no one is talking about sending american troops to fight for ukraine's freedom and territorial integrity. we're talking about two things that we can and should do. first, we need to impose our sanctions on russia and persuade the europeans to impose more severe sanctions. two, we should provide military equipment so the ukrainians can take back their own territory from these russian-led and russian-supported rebels. also, if russia decides to send in its own army, ukraine can impose a serious cost on them. the kind of equipment i'm talking about are anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft weapons, and also missiles that can shoot from the sky, shoot from planes and take out targets on the ground. these are things we can do

without endangering american soldiers and things that would strengthen security in europe. >> ambassador, thank you so much for your insights. >> thank you. and up next, another deadly day for both israelis and palestinians. we will get a live report from ayman mohyeldin on the ground. that's next. in new york state, we're changing the way we do business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov

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out and the u.s. looking to broker some kind of cease-fire. secretary of state john kerry has just arrived in cairo. this is that bid to revive some kind of cease-fire talks. this morning president obama spoke of the task ahead. >> the work will not be easy. obviously there are enormous passions involved in this and some very difficult strategic issues involved. nevertheless, i've asked john to do everything he can to help facilitate a cessation to hostilities. we don't want to see anymore civilians getting killed. >> john kerry's desire to be a trusted arbiter in the region there potentially complicated by this moment caught on open mic before a sunday show appearance on the violence over the weekend. >> it's a hell of a pinpoint operation. it's a hell of a pinpoint operation. >> right. it's escalating really significantly, and it just underscores the need for a cease fire. >> we've got to get over there.

>> yep. >> thank you, john. i think, john, we ought to go tonight. i think it's crazy to be sitting around. >> asked about that candid moment, the secretary about tha moment, the secretary reiterated that type of response. >> and we support israel's right to defend itself against rockets that are continuing to come in. >> 25 israelis and more than 550 palestinians have been killed since the latest clashes began roughly two weeks ago. today four people were killed and dozens wounded when about a dozen israeli tanks hit a hospital in gaza. israel insists these operations are as targeted as possible, that is a point of major debate right now, what are you seeing on the ground? >> well, i think to a great extent, we're skiing what secretary of state john kerry alluded to when he said a hell of a pinpoint operation, they're

suggesting that a claim by israel that it's using surgical strikes or tactical strikes with laser guided munitions and bombings of suspected targets. we saw one neighborhood that was completely devastated. a good chunk of that street in the neighborhood, bombarded with artillery shells, as well as strikes from the air above does not suggest that it was carrying the kind of precision the israelis have been claiming. we're also seeing wholesale destruction of buildings collapsing on each other. it gives you a sense of the full scale level of destruction that's happening in parts of gaza, not only in the eastern part where the fighting has been

intense. also across the territory, it will push the united nations to call what's happening here on the ground is a displacement catastrophe. >> across. schools, it gives you a sense of how many people are cramped into each one of these facilities. they say that have captured an israeli soldier, although the israeli government has refuted that. at the same time they say they are infliefficients skaushl -- the three weeks that they fought, the israeli military

lost six soldiers, in the four days of this ground offense, they have already lost 25 soldiers, so that again gives you the perspective of how intense that fighting is on the ground. >> as always, we appreciate your reporting. today nbc's brian william sat down with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. here's what he had to say. >> they just don't care. i think it's important to make that clear, they are responsible for all the civilian deaths. where you're sitting now brian, would absorb hundreds of rockets. you know what you would say? you would say to your leader, a man's got to do what a man's got to do and a country's got to do what a country's got to do, we have to defend ourselves. >> that entire new interview will air tonight on nbc "nightly news." walk us through who the prime minister is speaking to here, not only the american television

audience tonight, but presumably, a diplomatic offense trying to explain israeli's actions coming under increasing international condemnation. >> most importantly, he's talking to the american people, as well as to the critics of the united nations and others who are engaged in this type of morality play. we have seen this picture before and we certainly don't like the book and the delay behind it. >> the reason for the initial round invasion was to destroy these tunnels that hamas has built and basically sneak into israel and attack, these are tunnels that were built that are not going to be easy to destroy, as "the washington post" points out, one of these tunnels is mile and a half long, 66 feet under ground, electricity,

enouelectricity, enough cookies and yogurt to last several months. a what point can israel say we have done what we came to do and now we can go home. >> you not only can drive a tank through these tunnels, but remember all the concrete that was supposed to be used for housing and for schools has been deployed by hamas, hamas is hiding, they have refuge inside his tunnels. israelis don't know exactly how many tunnels have been dug extensively, and that remainings to be seen, i can't tell you if the israelis are going to stop, and they are convinced that they know from intelligence how many are left. >> there's always a wildly symmetrical death toll. is israel ready for that politically? >> let's be clear here, i think someone from my perspective, the terrible loss of life among gazans, the sheer infliction of distress is unacceptable.

there's no doubt that the palestinians who are caught in this cross fire are paying atremendous price, let's not forget who started this, how it started and how many israelis would have been injured or killed if they didn't have the iron dome system. >> ambassador ma, thank you. bluk

. don't miss ed shulsz tonight, but now it's lauren wagner. >> the bodies of mh-17 victims finally depart the crash scene en route to the day's heaviest fighting. it is monday july 21st and this is now life from los angeles. >> what exactly are they trying to hide? >> today is first international investigators arrived in ukraine. >> unfortunately the russian backed separatists continue to block the -- >> vladimir putin ordered russian separatists to let international investigators get to the site. >> this is an insult to those who have lost loved ones. >> two times, three times, four times headed to the crash si.