chaos, confusion and charges of cover-up on the ground. let's play "hardball.." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. a scene of horror at the malaysia flight 17 crash turns into chaos. investigators are confronting a horrible situation. imagine you have to investigate the death of nearly 300 people and your crime scene is in a war zone controlled by your suspects. they are armed, drunk, and out of control.

>> drunken, literally drunken separatist soldiers are piling bodies into trucks. unceremoniously and disturbing the evidence and the pattern that's there. anything that's removed -- and we understand some aircraft parts have been removed, compromises the investigation. we need full access. >> that's just the tip of the iceberg. buzz feed reporter max seden told msnbc today one separatist showed up drunk in a bee keeping suit that reeked of alcohol. intercepted audience from ukrainian officials appears to show pro russian rebels furiously trying to find the black box and later discussing hiding evidence found at the crash site. previous audio disclosed by the ukraine government has been authenticated by u.s. officials. president obama addressed the situation today.

>> the russian-backed separatists continue to block the investigation. they have repeatedly prevented international investigators from gaining full access to the wreckage. as investigators approached they fired weapons into the air. the separatists are removing evidence from the crash site, all of which begs the question what are they trying to hide? >> to make matters worse, fighting has broken out along the nine mile long debris field. this is kier simmons fleeing the area earlier today. >> talked about the demilitarized zone. it doesn't feel like it here. we are driving, making some pace because we are heard toward the crash site down the road fighting has broken out. we watched a convoy of armored personnel carriers, pro russian militia armed to the teeth driving in that direction. i'm watching a tank drive by in that the direction.

four tanks headed toward an area in the direction of the crash site. >> joining us now is michael bousekiw joining us by phone from the ukraine. michael, let's start with what does the scene look like now? we heard the president speaking out against some of the atrocities taking place at the scene now. what does it look like? has anything improved? >> well, first of all, we are not here to investigate the crash. we are we have been here on the ground for three months, 250 of us. so we know the lay of the land here well. we have established folks on the ground holding sway.

it may end the huge void of information. we had been out there again today. since we came it is not a well known fact, but by three. also for the first time today, international experts came to donetsk from are the netherlands. this is a country with the highest number of victims. going to where the bodies are stored not far from the crash site. we were able to facilitate their movement today to see how the bodies were stored and how the collection of remaining bodies and body parts was going.

the most significant observation today was that there was a lot of quiet compared to the past three days. yesterday and the day before, are there were a lot of emergency workers out collecting the debris and looking for body parts. they were gone today. so are some big administration tents. so that's something we'll be including for today. >> for those trying to gain access for recovery teams trying to gain access, what are the biggest challenges facing them? >> from day one, a big challenge was the lack of security around the perimeter. we have been reporting publically on that since we came here. of course normally in a typical tragedy like this the first thing one does is secure the area. but that was not done we have not seen that done in the

consecutive days we have come here. now they have been -- they did provide access or security for us. our journey to the crash area was quite fast. involving the situation there we observed today that the group of malaysians have shown up. government investigators and presumably they will go out tomorrow. as we pointed out, this is a huge area. we estimate nine to ten kilometers long with eight different impact sites. we have now visited four of the sites. there is heavy fuselage part. today for the first time we did see heavy equipment there. we cannot say until tomorrow

whether that heavy equipment was used to move any parts. but it did appear today. >> all right. michael bociurkiw, thank you. the attention has turned to vladimir putin. european leaders are threatening new sanctions against russia they say could begin as early as tomorrow. as the washington post reports on monday, george osborn, britain's chancellor of the exchequer told the bbc that london was ready to take an economic hit. also saying in the coming days if access remains inadequate all political economic and financial options are on the table against those who are directly and indirectly responsible. peter baker is a chief white house correspondent, howard fine is from the huffington post. that question of basically the message being delivered by the president, by europe to vladimir putin of get your act together,

we want access. we want recovery teams to have the access they need to the site. we hear the report from the field. is there a sense that the message is getting through to putin? >> well, there is cautious optimism at the white house. they want to wait and see, for sure, what happens. it's not enough for somebody to say it. it's not enough for some part of the field to be given access. they want a more serious, you know, confirmation that there is going to be a full and unfettered access at this point. as you point out the european wills meet tomorrow. the americans are considering options. the important part is how will those be reconciled. how will washington and brussels work together in terms of raising pressure on putin going forward. that's a place where they have had a tough time sticking together so far. does the tragedy bring them together in a concerted way. >> from the united states standpoint what does the u.s.

want europe to be doing now and what does europe want the u.s. to be doing? >> the important thing, as peter was indicating that the europeans, because of the tragedy and the mess in the ukraine now are more amped up about vladimir putin and putinism, if you will, than they were a week or two ago. i think what the president is going to want and what the europeans are going to want is more concerted action, tougher action from are the europeans and to really try to confront vladimir putin about not only the ukraine are but his overall philosophy and idea which is that it's up to him and his responsibility and free duty to protect the russian are people wherever they happen to be. i think this is a big moment. if the united states and europeans can't get together on a unified program of this to confront putin, i doubt they ever will.

>> peter, we talk about the dilemma the europeans have, at least some of the countries when it comes to dealing with russia and putin, the energy alliance they have. the dpen the den si in many cases from an energy standpoint. the idea of sanctions from europe's standpoint on russia comes with a potential cost to them. at the same time, i wonder going beyond the issue now of the crash in ukraine is there a broad arer concern in europe now about what putin represents and what his intentions are, more broadly speaking? >> i think there is, sure. they live closer than we do. that's action taken over the years, not just ukraine. there is fear in europe harder to understand in america of antagonizing russia too much at the same time. they have been through a lot of history in the last number of decades. you go back obviously two world wars and the idea of being more confrontational to russia is one

that culturally is tough for europe, not just economically. nowhere more so than the netherlands which is the real tragedy, home of tragedy for the flight. more than half the passengers on board for dutch. the dutch happened to be one of russia's largest trading partners. royal dutch shell has business there. you mentioned the prime minister taking a tougher stand. the question is where did they fall in the days to come and what to do next. >> there could be a price to pay for europe as well when you talk about sanctions against russia. peter baker, howard fineman, appreciate your time. coming up, another day of violence in gaza with no sign of ending soon. and a question, does either side want peace or just to win? also for years republicans charged democrats unfairly with plaming america first for the world's problems. now when there is a trouble spot, no matter the cause the right blames obama first. plus, elizabeth warren was the rock star at the net roots convention. if she doesn't run and hill ary

does will anybody carry the left's message to the primaries? and why hillary clinton may not run after all. this is "hardball," the place for politics. 

more and more americans say we should stay out of world affairs according to a new politico poll. only 17% of americans say the u.s. should do more to counter u.s. aggression in ukraine. 31% say the current policy is right. 34% say we should be less involved. that was taken before the downing of the malaysian jet plane over ukraine. over two-thirds of the polls say u.s. action should be limited to direct threats to national security. 22% say as the world's moral leader the u.s. has a responsibility to use the military to protect democracy around the globe.

welcome back to "hardball." the bloodshed in the middle east continued with israel pounding gaza and hamas launching a stream of rockets into israel. more than 570 palestinians have been killed since fighting began two weeks ago now. 27 israelis died including seven soldiers today. earlier today israeli tank shells hit a hospital in gaza killing four people and wounding 40 others. meanwhile hamas launched nearly 140 rockets targeting israel. against this backdrop secretary of state john kerry arrived in cairo to try to resuscitate diplomatic efforts to end the fighting. president obama said the focus needs to be on bringing about a cease-fire. >> as i have said many times, israel has a right to defend itself against rocket and tunnel attacks from hamas. as a result of its operations, israel has already done significant damage to hamas's terrorist infrastructure in gaza.

i have also said, however, that we have serious concerned about the rise aring number of palestinian civilian deaths and the loss of israeli lives. secretary kerry will meet with allies and partners. i have instructed him to push for an immediate cessation of hostilities based on a return to the november 2012 cease-fire agreement. >> meanwhile secretary kerry was forced to explain a caught on mic moment yesterday. he didn't realize the mic was hot and expressed frustration are with the scale of the israeli offensive. >> it's a hell of a pinpoint operation. >> right. it's escalating significantly. it underscores the need for a cease-fire. >> we've got to get over there. >> yep. >> thank you, john. i think, john, we ought to go tonight. it's crazy to be sitting around.

>> here's how he explained it on fox news sunday later. >> i think it's very, very difficult in these situations, obviously very difficult, chris. you have people who have come out of tunnels. you have a right to go in and take out those tunnels. we completely support that. we support israel's right to defend itself against rockets that are continuing to come in. yeah. it's tough. it's tough to have this kind of operation. i reacted obviously in a way that anybody does with respect to young children and sieve i can't be -- civilians. >> let's get the latest from nbc news correspondent richard engel and michael crowley. that was the question raised by john kerry's comment saying that's a hell of a pinpoint operation. we have news of the hospital in the attack there. the news is how pinpoint is this? can we give a definitive answer on that?

>> well, it certainly doesn't seem pinpoint from where i am in gaza right now. just a short while ago, for example, a building, an apartment building, a large building was attacked by israeli fire in gaza. several people were killed including children whose bodies were thrown from the windows. we captured video ourselves. ambulance workers, volunteer workers arrived at the scene, picked up the bodies, put thim in ambulances. more aid workers rushed into the building. as they were inside, the building collapsed. more than 20 people were killed. we are hearing about 28. it's hard to know considering how many people were inside the building and now it is on top of them. overnight in southern gaza strip an entire family of nearly 30

people was killed when a hamas militant was targeted. in that case a militant was targeted and killed with his extended family. today i was in an apartment. there was supposedly a hamas militant in the apartment below. israeli missiles went through two apartments above on floors above killing the people inside of them to get to the militant two floors down. based on what we have been able to see, no, it doesn't seem pinpoint. >> netanyahu said they were to blame for embedding fighters in civilian are populations saying they have had no choice but to act. he spoke with brian williams today. >> what would you do if american cities would be rocketed, absorb hundreds of rockets? do you know what you would say? you would say to your leader, a man's got to do what a man's got

to do and a country's got to do what a country's got to do. we have to defend ourselves. we try to do it with a minimum amount of force or with targeting civilian targets as best as we can. we'll act to defend ourselves. no country can live like this. >> a spokesperson for hamas responded saying no journalist in gaza has ever reported seeing a rocket or fighter near a hospital. he said it is netanyahu and his army of war criminals that have are targeted and continue to target innocent and defenseless civilians. as for hamas every single israeli killed by its fighters except one have been soldiers in uniform, fully armed and on the battle feed. let's talk about what the way out is. we've got the israeli position there which is the rockets have to stop. that's why they are doing this. from hamas inside gaza to get them to stop with the rockets what are they demanding?

is there a diplomatic solution? >> theoretically there is. it doesn't look promising. even though kerry is over there, white house officials are acknowledging it will be tough. they are not saying we are on the verge of a breakthrough. hamas wants concessions that it seems unlike tli israelis will offer including opening crossings out of gaza, lifting a lot of economic restrictions on economic activities on gaza and releasing hamas prisoners who were released as part of the deal in 2011. one problem for hamas is although this presents netanyahu with many political problems both at home as casualties mount and on the international stage at home as idf casualties mount. i think he feels he's got hamas in a corner here. they now have a hostile government in cairo.

they had a friendly one that allowed them to resupply. their relationship with iran is somewhat strained. the israelis feel hamas is on the ropes and they tonight want to let up. so therefore you don't really have either side with much interest in cutting a deal. so the knot continues to tighten. it's getting harder to loosen it up. unfortunately the end game isn't clear now. >> what michael seems to be saying is the international concerns that have been raised about the civilians, everything you described about the civilian casualties taking place here that israel feels it is in a position where it can absorb the outcry. >> ly about that. from inside gaza from the standpoint of hamas all of the civilian casualties they are absorbing now, do they feel there is a calculation on hamas's part that they feel within gaza this is

strengthening their position with the people in gaza saying this is israel. this is why you have to join the join fight. is there an element of that going on here? >> there is an enormous amount of frustration in the gaza strip. people can't leave here. they feel like prisoners. they can't do business. they haven't been able to go to egypt let alone israel. they can't even go into the water to go fishing right now. there is no money in circulation. people can't feed their families in some cases. if you need medical care or a relative needs medical care, it is almost impossible to get them out of the gaza strip so they can receive care. people decided, hamas included, that they can no longer live like that. that's hamas's primary demand, to end the blockade. that's popular century among those who don't like hamas.

a lot of people on the gaza strip don't support hamas. they think it is corrupt. they think it has started too many wars with israel at too much of a cost. on this one principle that the siege of the gaza strip has to end and people have to at least be allowed to make a living and travel and live in some degree of freedom. on that point, everyone here agrees. >> thank you to richard engel and michael youley. we'll be right back after this. go ahead. run in the halls, put your feet on the furniture,

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obama, see, that's how you secure a border. >> back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. that was bill maher reacting to the ground offensive in gaza. when it comes to the political debate over foreign policy at home he made a few more predictions. >> could i save everyone time and tell you how it will go down for the next month? our politics are as predictable as the tides. first john mccain will go on every sunday talk show and call for war. then republicans in general are going to say obama isn't leading or warmongering enough and doing it to distract us from benghazi. then you're going to get a chain e-mail forwarded from your crazy republican uncle who says obama is in on it. then obama will come out and say this is unacceptable and do nothing which turns out to be the right thing to do because the only two people in the world who want war with russia are john mccain and his [ bleep ] lindsey graham.

>> might be onto something. coming up, chris matthews spoke with the need for prison reform with piper kerman. the incarceration problem in the country is now so endemic children show sesame street has a new character with a father in prison. alex is teaching children to cope with an absent parent. that inspired john oliver who are introduced us to new friends in the segment about prison reform last night. >> i'll be looking at the prison conditions in america and the whole system is so broken. >> my daddy is in jail for a low level drug offense. >> that's what i'm talking about, tim my. that's crazy. >> my daddy is in jail because he killed four people. >> yeah, well, okay. he's actually a dangerous individual who needs to be in jail. so that's really not the same thing. >> my daddy is in jail and people pay money to see him. >> that's a zoo.

it's different. ♪ it's a fact that needs to be spoken ♪ ♪ america's prisons are are broken ♪ ♪ america's broken prison system is brought to you by decades of neglect. >> a lack of political courage. >> and the geo group. >> and viewers like you. >> up next, remember how republicans used to charge democrats with blaming america first? we'll look at who's doing it now. this is "hardball," the place for politics. when you run a business, you can't settle for slow.

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>> it's just been cowardly. it's a cowardly administration that we failed to give the ukrainians weapons with which to defend themselves. >> we are back. it was less than 24 hours after the crash of malaysian airlines flight 17 on thursday that republicans like john mccain started attacking president obama's foreign policy and placing the blame for the nightmare on ukraine's eastern border and the president's so-called cowardly leadership. it's become a familiar pattern every time there is an international crisis, republicans find a way to blame obama. when putin-backed separatists moved into ukraine last march senator lindsey graham slammed the president for, quote, inviting aggression.

>> every time the president goes on national television and threatens putin or anyone like putin, everybody's eyes roll including mine. we have a weak and indecisive president. that invites aggression. president obama immediates to do something. >> when isis forces endanger the stability of iraq, dick cheney had the nerve to say it was the president's fault and not his own. >> you're saying it's all malaki and obama? >> that's what i believe and that's what the history books will show. >> when hostilities rose tom cotton said it was the administration's peace initiative that, in fact, led to war. >> john kerry and barack obama reinserted themselves into the so-called peace process at a time when israeli and palestinian relationships were going fine, once again inflating expectations and once again they have encouraged groups like

hamas an excuse to under mine any hopes of a peaceful resolution. and you see the outcome. >> may not be surprising that republicans habitually point the finger at the president. has the blame game gone too far? an article entitled not every international crisis is about obama. our colleague writes when 298 people die needlessly because a civilian airliner was shot with a missile, there is a problem when some look for ways to blame america's leaders for the bloodshed. that's not a basis for a foreign policy debate. it's corrosive nonsense. joining me, jonathan capehart of the washington post and from mother jones, david corn. the obama policy was summed up as indecisive, not tough enough, needs to do something. does it get more specific?

>> no. you forgot he's weak. that's the critique of the president from the very beginning to blame him for anything and everything, even if he has nothing to do with it. the president had nothing to do with russians separatists firing off a missile on the plane. no matter what you will find senator lindsey graham, senator john mccain in front of the cameras, blaming the president, calling him weak and indecisive inviting aggression. there was a time and you remember this when politics stopped at the water's edge. that disappeared apparently john

january 20, 2009. >> there is a history to this that's the democratic party going way back here of of george mcgovern. the blame america first party. the idea of the democrats of jimmy carter as president. the idea of democrats as the weak party. any democratic party being weak on foreign policy. republicans had a lot of electoral success. is there something to tap into when they do this? >> first, i'm shocked that dick cheney would not take responsibility for the mess in iraq are. the criticism that he and mccain and lindsey graham and everybody would be akin to saying we were attacked on 9/11 because they were weak, if he canless. i don't remember them making the claim. historically ever since the

george mcgovern campaign, even before that the republicans get a lot of political mileage out of calling the democrats weak on national security. they have tried it again and again with this president but with the bin laden raid, libya, and with winding down wars that were unpopular, they have gotten no traction. he beat john mccain, the war hawk in 2008. he beat mitt romney. he tried to make that issue, too. now they are going to keep pounding away. last august when it came to the syria episode they saw the approval ratings drop because of that mess. i think the thinking if he can be blamed for chaos overseas which he may not be able to control or address directly that will help the popularity rating in the fall. >> there is one person not

piling on obama for being too weak. former congressman ron paul criticized the president for being too hard on vladimir putin. quote, just days after the tragic crash of a malaysian airlines flight western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. it had to be russia. it had to be putin, they said. here is the thing -- >> with friends like that -- >> hear's the thing i'm wondering. ron paul's son has been trying so hard to make in-roads with the neocons who never liked ron paul because he says things like this. this will be an issue for rand paul. his dad will come out and say, you know, we should be friends with vladimir putin. >> it makes me wonder if he figured the hatred of the president is so intense that if he said something nice about

vladimir putin no one would notice. or no one would care. one of the many problems from my perspective of a senator rand paul candidacy for president, i think someone so isolationist in their view and this sort of kindness for vladimir putin, i'm looking forward to hearing him explain why he said that and why he felt compelled to say something nice, come to the defense of vladimir putin are. >> i'm just looking for the headlines now in 2015, 2016. rand paul distances self from father. that will be a standing header. thank you, jonathan and david. up next, elizabeth warren doesn't run for president who will carry the liberal left's message in 2016? this is "hardball," the place for politics. they say his magic erasers tackle so many messes,

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tomorrow is the republican senate run-off election in georgia. we have new polling. we check out the "hardball" scoreboard. according to a new poll from sbt-tv jack kingston leads david perdue by seven points. 48-41. winner tomorrow faces democrat michelle nun in the fall which shows her leading both republicans. against kingston, 49-41. and against perbut by six.

48-42. we'll be right back.

and we believe that corporations are not people, that women have a right to their bodies. we will overturn hobby lobby and we will fight for it. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was massachusetts senator elizabeth warring lighting up the stage at last week's net roots nation, annual gathering of the most liberal and active voters in the democratic party. when it comes to what the voters are thinking for 2016, politico may have put it best. "their heads might be with hillary clinton, but their

hearts are decidedly with elizabeth warren." warren has said she's not running, but the enthusiasm for a warren candidacy is driven in part for a candidate to carry the populist mantle. the "washington post" reported over the weekend that even as hillary clinton looms as the overwhelming favorite for the 2016 democratic nomination, the party's base is stirring for a primary fight. there's a pining for someone else and a medley of ambitious democrats are making moves. perry bacon, senior political reporter with nbc news, aisha moodie-mills with the center for american progress. perry, as best you can, if you can put the size of this movement on the left, the size of this movement in the democratic party that thinks hillary clinton is an unacceptable nominee in 2016, that wants elizabeth warren, that wants somebody else, anybody else, how big is that now compared to what that movement was in 2006, 2007, and the last time she ran? >> much, much smaller. i mean, i think we're talking about something like ten.

people who think hillary's unacceptable might be 5% or 10%. a large group of people want to see somebody else run. the key thing to remember is two differences. one is, obama did well in part because he had a huge claim on the african-american vote. that really helped drive his wins in some of the primaries. obviously warren does not have that. the second thing is, even the -- i was there, myself, and the activists don't consider, they want hillary to be further away from wall street. that's annoying to them. that's not like the iraq war which they consider basically an offense she could not apologize for back then. they were not going to vote for someone who was for the iraq war. so a big population, probably 40% of democrats in '08, who were not going to vote for hillary. it's a much smaller fraction of the part right now. >> i wonder, i was talking to people about this earlier today. i think back to the 2008 race. the thing that sticks through my mind through all these years is when it was becoming clear hillary was going to lose to obama, she started ridiculing

his hope and change message and gave this speech, i think she was in rhode island and talked about, he talks like the clouds will open when i'm elected, celestial choirs will start singing. i wonder if there's a sense that the democratic base -- not that obama failed but just everybody in the democratic party in 2008 may be underestimated what they'd be up with politically in terms of the republicans in washington and maybe think of that moment and think of hillary clinton now and say, yeah, maybe she was on to something. >> well, i mean, i don't think that anybody has any preconceived notions that hillary clinton would even get elected and be able to work well with republicans in washington. because we know that that's just not going to be the case for any democrat because of how divisive the politics have become. i want to go back to a point. i was there, too. perry said he was there. i was there. net roots. i heard elizabeth warren speak. it was very energizing and exciting. i think that is her power with regards to the party. she's able to talk about issues that really pull at the heart strings of the american public in a way that forces other

politicians in the party to get out of the nebulous center place they've been hanging out and hiding out, quite frankly, and actually move more to the left on some of the economic issues we all care about. i think that's what we're going to see happen with rhetoric that comes from hillary clinton and the conversation she's having around the country now, you're seeing her talk about income inequality. if she runs, that's what she's going to talk about on the campaign trail and be due largely in part to senator elizabeth warren. we're seeing her change the tone, messages we care about in a real powerful way. that's going to be what's critical. i don't think the conversation is whether or not she can beat hillary. >> if hillary were to run, elizabeth warren, the idea of her running in 2016 seems likely at this point. perry, if hillary does run, if elizabeth warren -- can elizabeth warren be happy young term in senate? she's a freshman member of the senate right now. takes a long time to build up seniority, to have a chairmanship or anything like that. if she's blocked from running

for president, given the outsized role in american politics right now, can she be happy in the senate? >> i think she can. remember, she's filling ted kennedy's seat. she doesn't have any history yet, but it's easy seeing her be the populist voice in the senate who remains there, who becomes head of the senate banking committee, let's say, who pushes the party to the left in every way possible, like aisha said. i think she can play a role in forming the platform of the democratic party, calling the party when there's a big bill in the senate, calling for things like changing the rules on wall street, like breaking up big banks. she has a very clear agenda about fighting the big guys, big corporations, big business, big money. so i think when her politics are so singular that i think as long as people in america are worried about the powerful, she can have a big influence, and i would say that there's talk that bernie sanders and martin o'malley

might challenge hillary clinton, anyway, and i think they're going to speak about the same kind of issues warren is. i think warren can really lead the party and affect the primary and affect what hillary clinton is saying even if she's not in the race, herself. >> and aisha, just quickly, couple names from perry bacon. do you want hillary clinton to face some kind of a challenge in 2016? >> i mean, we know the competition is healthy, right? i would say, you know, what i want is not necessarily what the democratic party strong hold would want. at the end of day, there are a lot of people out there throwing money into a potential hillary clinton race at this point. i think that the thing to remember is that the coffers are already being staffed for a hillary clinton at this time. it would be interesting to see what would happen if the fund-raising apparatus if other people jumped into. >> thank you, perry bacon, aisha moodie-mills. when i return, let me finish with the one thing that could keep hillary clinton from running for president. this is "hardball." the place for politics. woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance

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the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn't i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. finally, let me finish tonight with the one thing i think could, could keep hillary clinton out of the 2016 presidential race. she's run before, so we know the desire to be president lives within her somewhere. we all assume her husband still has the drive to get back to the white house, he wants her to run and is probably egging her on in his own way. this is obviously hillary's choice and at its heart, not a choice about politics or policy. it's a much more personal question. that's why what president obama told the "new yorker" this week caught my eye.

he was asked about hillary and joe biden who has his own interest of being president some day. for both joe and hillary, obama said, they've already accomplished an awful lot in their lives. the question is, at this phase in their lives, want to go through the undignifying process of running all over again? think about that. 2016 election is more than 2 years away. already with her book tour, hillary is getting a strong taste of what it's like it be a candidate again, what it's like it be the overwhelming democratic front-runner. the kind of target that comes with that. how wealthy is she, how did she and her husband make their fortune, how does she talk about is? these are stories that have dominated the media this summer, that fed republican attacks on her and there was, before that, karl rove making his ridiculous insinuations about her neurological health. a lot of this isn't fair, of course, especially what rove has been up to. it's what comes with running for president. especially when your name is clinton. and it's nothing compared to what hillary will face if she does go ahead and run. even that is nothing compared to what she'll face if she wins.

she remembers what it was like in the 1990s, what it was like to wake up every day as the number one enemy of the entire republican party. to have that right-wing machine devoting itself to tearing her and her husband down. she remembers all the awful things they said, all the awful things a lot of people believed. there were people, supposedly reputable people in the 1990s who accused the clintons of drug running and of murder. she remembers impeachment. the last few years when she was secretary of state, hillary stopped being the right's number one enemy. they moved on. they started attacking president obama every day and left the clintons alone. now they're coming back. now the media scrutiny is coming back, too. it's not that hillary clinton will decide she can't win in 2016. she definitely can. it's not that she'll decide she can't fight off the republican attacks. she and her husband have already shown they can do that, too. my question is more simple, it's more human. she's been through this all before. she'll be 69 years in 2016. at some point before she takes her place at the starting line, she'll have ask herself, do i

want to live through what i lived through the '90s all over again for another ten years? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. right now. out of control hoarding. >> you think, wow, why am i doing this? i need to stop. >> leaves a mother and daughter overwhelmed. >> it's very chaotic and stressful thncht is hoarding. >> a real estate investor finds a real steal. >> there was no way anyone could live in the house. >> and gets more than he bargained for. >> you couldn't walk around. huh to climb over it. >> a race against the clock. >> turned out to be 700 cats on the property. >> to save hundreds of lives. >> they were really, really sick and really malnourished. >> and when the experts step in -- >> a stinking rotten mess. >> -- even they can't believe their eyes. >> what i saw would make anybody want to vomit.