states folks. he's attacking that and burying his own outsourcing news. >> no doubt this is a tight race. the latest polling shows that. great to have you with us. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. >> good evening, ed. thanks for tuning in. i'm live tonight in washington, d.c. tonight's lead is the president's health care law headed back to the supreme court? two conflicting federal appeals court rule arings today concerning a key question about the president's health care law. does the federal government have the right to subsidize health insurance for millions of americans? this isn't a hypothetical point. this is an urgent issue that could apply to 4.5 million people who are right now receiving money for health insurance from the federal

government. the health care law says that government can subsidize insurance bought, "through an exchange established by the state." opponents of the law went to court arguing that the language means only people who bought plans through the 16 state-run exchanges to get subsidies. the people in the 34 states who bought their insurance through the federal exchange would lose their health care support. today, two republican-appointed judges agreed with those challenging federal subsidies, but just a short time later, another appeals court in virginia ruled that subsidies are allowed. which means we are at an impasse. until another court, maybe the supreme court, decides who is right. so what's next?

joining me now is jeffrey rosen, president and ceo of the national constitution center. first of all, thanks for being here. >> great to be here. >> it seems unusual that we'd have two different rulings on the same issue on the same day. how could they come to such different conclusions? >>it was high drama. to see one opinion one minute and two hours later a conflicting decision on the same day is unusual. it is headed for the supreme court when there is a serious disagreement among two federal courts the supreme court often interve intervenes. what makes the case interesting is it was really about the meaning of the statutory language. you quoted it correctly and the thing says you can get tax credits if the exchange is created by a state. the literal minded reading which the d.c. court bought is a federally created exchange can't get the credits and the virginia court and the obama administration said this makes no sense. obviously congress intended for the individual mandates to bind

individuals and employers. it was a triumph of hyper literalism over context. >> one interpreted it as almost like a typo could wipe out 5 million people's insurance because the technical term of state sponsored could have not been there given the spirit of the law like a typo. >> it was almost like a typo. many decisions say when a technicality prevents congress's intent from taking place courts should defer to the agency. the irs said clearly congress meant for the subsidies to go more broadly and the courts should be differential to the interpretation. >> it may go to the supreme court. you know the court better than most. will justice g responsible for a ruling that would take away insurance for millions of people? >> that's question. he cared about the legitimacy of the court and was uncomfortable

with the spectacle of five republicans denying health care over four democrat discents. given the extreme technicality of the majority decision i wouldn't be surprised if he agrees again that the subsidies should go forward. >> i want to read part of the ruling from the d.c. panel which was against the subsidies. the judge wrote, "we reach this conclusion frankly with reluctance. our ruling will likely have significant consequences both for the millions of individuals receiving tax credits through federal exchanges and for health insurance markets more broadly." are they acknowledging how significant the ruling is when they say this? >> they were. they knew what they were doing. the dissenting judge edwards said this decision will gut the affordable health care mandate. i don't think the judges set out to gut it but they know the consequences.

they had the opportunity to step aside from are the abyss but they decided to be hyper technical. >> stand by for a minute. i want to turn to the politics here. republicans tried everything -- i mean everything -- to attack the affordable care act. refusing to accept its legitimacy though the law was passed by both houses of congress, signed by the president. it was upheld by the supreme court with the opinion written by the republican appointed chief justice. and it was debated again in the last election. we all know how that ended. after more than 50 repealed votes, republicans are still trying desperately to relitigate the law. they are trying to take health care away from americans who have it. and that may be very hard to sell. joining me now are congressmen

john mcdermott, democrat from washington. and clarence page from the chicago tribune. thank you both for being here. >> thank you, reverend. >> congressman, what's your reaction to today's two rulings? >> well, they have been trying since the bill was passed to gut it. there have been 50 attempts to appeal it in the house. they are taking each segment and bringing it to court. the question to ask is who is financing these lawsuits. they are getting a subsidy. the people protesting are ones who are eligible for a subsidy. and they are saying we don't want it. what they want is us to pay for

their health care. it makes no sense whatsoever. >> it's a good point for clarence. it's one thing to fight a law before it takes effect. now you're talking about taking back health care for millions of people. i mean how will that affect the whole political landscape this year. there are a lot of lawmakers. the fact is as much as republicans talk about these various libertarian ideas and all that, also ask ted cruz that once you get obamacare passed it's likely to be so popular people won't want to repeal it. once they have a benefit they don't want to give it back. it will be tough for politicians to actually have to vote against it if it came down to that.

this will go back to congress to rewrite the law. it's much more likely that the courts will want to defer to the executive as the virginia judge has said unanimously. there is ample precedent for that. >> this is frightening. congressman, i want to read some of the republican reaction to today's decision. speaker boehner called it proof that the health care law is completely unworkable. senator cruz are said it was a repudiation of obamacare and all the lawlessness that's come with it. governor bobby jindal claimed it was no surprise after the president rammed obamacare through congress without any care for following the constitution and the laws of the country. how can they make the same

attacks when the law is working, congressman? >> i don't know. there are 14 and a half million people as you said earlier who are getting health care because of the affordable care act. for them now to try to dismantle it and throw those people back out in the street with no coverage by this technicality is, in my view, the height of political cynicism. that's all it is. i expect what's going to happen is that the government will go in and ask the whole circuit court here in d.c. to review the decision of the three judges. i think it will be over turned at this level, it will never get to the supremes. i think it is the height of political cynicism to say you want to take away from people a program that's working and giving them health insurance. i mean, 87% of the people who

would be thrown out by this decision are receiving subsidies which means they are poor people. they are just barely making it. here you are taking it away from the middle class again. it's the republicans attacking the middle class. it's the same old story. >> you know, would this go down, this affordable care act, as the most litigated thing we have seen in america? we have hobby lobby, this could go to the supreme court. it would have to be among the most litigated that we have seen in american history. >> this is very bad for the country, but good for places like the national constitution center. there is more coming down the line. it's full employment for law professors and constitution center executives.

>> what about moderates? >> moderates look at it and say, is this yet another polarized issue that results in the benefits to millions of people being threatened by one line out of context in the the law? a rather obvious typo. they put them many the same level as federal exchanges. this law is aimed at affordable care for everybody, universal care. that's an obvious thing. i think a lot of moderates, if obamacare appears to be threatened, it will be like medicare in the 60s. reagan called it creeping soc.lism but it is the most popular program in the government. >> to think on a typo they would

wipe it out. every time i have heard it all i see more. congressman mcdermott, clarence page and jeff rosen, thank you for your time. >> thank you. coming up, sarah palin, she may not even be in georgia for today's republican primary election. but her impeachment spirit might as well be calling the shots. that's next. plus, a chilling new report on the fallout from that lawless bundy rancher. why it is the embroiled the anti-government movement. and emboldened them. and more on the choke hold death of eric garner. >> every time you are see me, you mess with me. i'm tired of it. don't touch me. >> tonight, we have the police report and a serious new question and other serious questions about first responders. stay with us.

it's the case outside detroit drawing similarities to the george zimmerman trial. the jury has been selected in the trial of theodore wafer in the killing of ranesha mcbride. what's the breakdown of the jury and what will it mean for the trial going forward? also, where is the humanity? tonight we have the police report and serious new questions on the chokehold death of eric garner by new york city police. stay tuned. but most of our empls live in the same communities that we serve. people here know that our operations have an impact locally. we're using more natural gas vehicles than ever before. the trucks are reliable, that's good for business. but they also reduce emissions, and that's good for everyone.

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that music means it's an election night. in just under an hour polls will close in the georgia republican senate run-off. it's been an ugly and close race between congressman jack kingston and david perdue since the may primary. but there is one thing they agree on -- impeaching president obama. >> i'm not up there. i don't have the facts. if he's violated his oath of office to a degree that's egregious enough, i will do that. >> not a day goes by when people don't talk to us about impeachment. i don't know what rises to that

level yet but there is mounting frustration people are are getting to. i think congress is going to start looking at it very seriously. >> forget georgia peach. it's georgia impeach. back in february when there were seven candidates vying for the republican nomination, this happened at a debate. >> clinton was impeached for perjury. obama has perjured himself on multiple occasions. would you support impeachment if presented for a vote? >> three people on that panel want the president impeacheded. the same talk we are hearing from the leaders of the impeachment movement -- sarah palin and others are using it to fire up the base. but will it all backfire on republicans? joining me now is michelle

coddle and goldie taylor. thank you for being here. >> thanks, rev. >> thank you, reverend sharp ton. >> you're in georgia. how is the impeachment talk playing there? >> for main stream responsible republicans here in the state it's really just campaign fodder, something to rile up the base. if the base is telling you we want him impeached on a daily basis you are can't disagree. but you can placate them with talk around language. that's what you are hearing from kingston and perdue. it's not something they can come out strongly against. they can give you language that says if it comes to the floor i would support it. i don't know where the case is yet. but it's mounting. i understand your frustration. that's the language you are hearing. today we had a base within a base primary run are-off. who knows how it will turn out?

jack kingston has the stronger backing from the gop establishment here. strong backing from are the national chamber of commerce. so you're going to find that what we think are more extreme things coming from the two candidates, you will find they are fairly main stream in georgia and you will have six of one, half dozen of the other whether perdue or kingston is elected. >> michelle, they may be talking around it in the senate run-off even though neither one said they would vote any way but supportive if they got through to the senate. not only on the senate level. bob barre is running. listen to what he had to say. >> i was with some folks just recently and pulled out of a file in my office the house resolution, the house resolution that i introduced on november fifth of 1997 that was the very

first official inquiry of impeachment filed against bill clinton. what i did is i took that document figuratively dusted it off, added a little bit of language to it. darned if it doesn't sound pretty good with barack obama's name in there. >> you know, michelle, this talk of impeachment is becoming a major trend on the right. listen to sarah palin in the past few weeks. >> the tool congress has to halt what's going on, this lawlessness from the top, the one tool they have are articles of impeachment. let's get going on that. >> these days you hear the politicians denouncing barack obama saying, oh, he's a lawless, imperial president. he ignores court orders and changes laws by fiat and refuses to enforce laws he just doesn't like. there is only one remedy for a president who commits high

crimes and misdemeanors. it's impeachment. it's the i-word. with all the talk from bob barre to sarah palin and on and on. is it that they don't have any policies? is it that there is not a lot of agreement, or is it that they know this will fire up the base and you are dealing with narrow primaries of base voters? >> it's definitely a lot of options. they worked very hard to nationalize the midterm. you know, if you can make this all about how much the base hates barack obama and how much you are going to work to bring down what they say is an illegitimate presidency you have a chance to have taking down the senate and picking up seats in the house. >> goldie, history shows when republicans are talking impeachment it's not great for their approval ratings. this is gallup tracking

republican party favorables going back to 1992. look at 1999. when republicans called for president clinton to be impeached, gop favorability dipped to 31 points. now look at 2014 when republicans are calling for president obama to be impeached. gop favorability is down again, just that 34%. is there a correlation there, goldie? >> i think the correlation is that people need jobs. bob barre doesn't have a job. so he wants to go back to congress because it's a job. in order to get there, he must push impeachment. that's why he's dusting off old articles of impeachment. not because he cares what's happening polling-wise around congress. >> my question is, is there a correlation in the dip in the favorability ratings that we saw under the calls for the clips

for the clinic -- clinton impeachment and the obama. >> i think it has less to do with impeachment and more to do with the dead-locked congress. it isn't focused on creating jobs, solving the border crisis. if you are talking impeachment all day, something that really can't happen because you don't have votes in the senate you are talking about drumming up votes rather than solving problems. that's where the american people have a difference with this stuff. you're not solving the problems they sent you to washington to get the job done on. so much so that you are focused on getting yourself elected. by issues that are clearly just distractions. >> michelle, you have been covering washington and elections a long time. what do you see in terms of a correlation between the '90s with clinton and now obama with the impeachment talk and the extreme right. >> i do think when people are

dissatisfied with washington not getting things done, any glaring reminder of how politicized things are does carry a risk of back-firing on them. when it gets to the point you sound crazy when you talk the about impeachment. people start noticing. >> thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks. >> thank you, reverend. coming up, a disturbing new report on the rise of right wing militia groups in the wake of the stand-off with radical rancher cliven bundy. also, self-defense or murder? 19-year-old renisha mcbride, shot and killed. the jury is set in the case. that's drawing parallels to the george zimmerman trial. already today it looks like the defense is trying to put her on trial.

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there are still many unanswered questions surrounding the death of eric garner who died last week after being put in a chokehold by a new york city policeman. including grave legal questions. but also basic questions of humanity. how could emergency responders let this man lay motionless on the ground without treating him? where is the sense of urgency, of decency. my thoughts ahead. take them on the way you always have. live healthy and take one a day men's 50+. a complete multivitamin with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. age? who cares.

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grazing fees. >> i abide by laws but i don't recognize the united states government as even existing. >> confronting officers from the bureau of land management. the threat of violence caused the government to back down. some in the right wing media embraced bundy and today, disturbing new details on oh bundy's continued influence. the southern poverty law center which tracks extremist groups is out with a report titled "war many the west, the bundy ranch stand-off and the american radical right." "cliven bundy may have faded from public view, but the movement that spawned him is boiling. it says bundy's actions have led to, "an even more emboldened anti-government movement." it is an eye-opening conclusion

and raises ominous new questions about the threat. joining me now is mark potock, the lead author of the report and a senior fellow at the southern poverty law center. thank you for being here. >> a pleasure. thanks for having me. >> according to your research, what was the real significance of the bundy stand-off. >> it was seen by the radical right in america as a huge victory. at the end of the day what happened is although the government came in looking tough with helicopters, police dogs and so on, these militiamen, cliven bundy's allies point to weap weapons in law enforcement. they looked down the barrels of their guns at law enforcement and ultimately forced the blm to

back down which they wisely did to avoid what could have been a bloodbath. what's happened -- >> the bureau of land management. >> that's right. what's happened in the aftermath of the report of this stand-off is so called patriots have been energized. they see this as a tremendous victory with a number of confrontations between agencies like the bureau of land management and militia type groups. >> let me question you about that. here in the report it says the impact with the bureau of land management stand-downs has been significant. it says in the months since the bundy victory, tense stand-offs between the blm and anti-government activists have taken place across the west in

idaho, new mexico, texas, and utah. is this all part of a ripple effect of the bundy ranch episode? >> i think so. less than a month after the bundy stand-off, we saw for instance a very large group of people including some members of the bundy family barge into a closed road in utah, riding atvs. this road had been closed in order to protect a fragile archaeological remains of american-indian communities. theyle rolled in quite illegally and were not confronted by the government in that case oath. -- either. that's the kind of thing we have been see. it's difficult to forget the murder of two police officers in las vegas in early june by two people, jared and amanda miller who, in fact, had been at the bundy stand-off for a short

time. >> your report also mentions the impact of right wing media that cheered bundy on. listen to what some were saying. >> i'm not a rancher but i would think you would be thankful because you are cutting lawn for free and you are grazing for free. >> these are folks live in nevada. good hardworking americans. >> it shows you the attitude of the government today and the resistance of patriotic americans. >> what's the impact of this kind of talk? does this fan the flame of extremism? >> absolutely. we saw a despicable show from politicians like the governor of nevada, congressmen from the sean hannitys of the world and his echo chamber in the fox world and so on describing bundy not as a thief who refused to pay a million dollars he owed to

the federal government, to you and i, but as some kind of great defender of the constitution. now all of these people ran away from him quickly when he started to discuss the so-called problems of the, quote/unquote, negro. but it was only then that these people started to think maybe cliven bundy wasn't such a terrific friend to have after all. >> i want to go to someone that we don't talk a lot about. your report knows that since 2009 there have been 17 shooting incidents between anti-government extremists and law enforcement. what needs to be done to prevent more shootings, anti-government shootings between groups and law enforcement? >> well, i think one of the things that needs to be done is there need to be more analysis of the movement coming out of the department of homeland security. their unit on nonislamic d

domestic terrorism has withered since it repudiated a report from 2009. in addition the attorney general eric holder reconstituted an executive committee on domestic terrorism that laid fallow with since the 9/11 attacks of 2001. that's a very good thing. i think in general law enforcement needs more training on the views of some of the people and on the dangers they present. >> wow. so i think when you raised this, are we saying that in many ways we are not taking this as seriously as we should even though you have had these amounts of shootings? >> i think that's exactly right. i think there is a tendency to say that these things are less important than they are. there is a tendency, as we have heard in the case of the bundy stand-off for certain elements

of the political right in an opportunistic fashion to lionize these people, make heroes of them in such a way that the movement spreads. >> wow. >> these are very real problems. we have seen an enormous amount of violence from the radical right. it will likely get worse before it gets better. >> this is a very important report. we are going to keep watching and monitoring what's going on. mark potak, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend. ahead, the jury is now set in the shooting death of 19-year-old renisha mcbride. that case that some compare to the shooting of trayvon martin. self-defense? or murder? also tonight, we have the new york city police report on the chokehold death of eric garner. but it leaves open serious questions. ♪

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was it self-defense or murder. it's being compared to the george zimmerman trial and tomorrow the renisha mcbride shooting trial begins in detroit. a jury has been shrelected in t trial of theodore wafer, a detroit man who shot and killed 19-year-old renisha mcbride, a drunk but unarmed teenager. she was on his porch on

november. around 1:00 a.m. she was intoxicated and crashed her car into a parked vehicle. her family said she walked to mr. wafer's house seeking help, but the 55-year-old shot mcbride in the face through a closed door after she was on the porch. he's charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and felony use of a firearm. he claimed self-defense, saying mcbride was trying to break into his house. today, the jury was selected. it's made up of seven men and seven win women, two of whom will serve as alternates. two african-american men, two african-american women, one arab man, two minority women, four white men and three white women. tomorrow morning they will hear opening statements in the murder case against wafer. joining me now are former

prosecutors and trial attorneys carmen st. george and michelle suskauer. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> sure. >> i want to hear from are both of you, starting with michelle, the jury has been seated. seven men, seven women. what do you make of the selection? >> it's a diverse jury. we don't know who the alternates will be who will be excused and not able to deliberate, but a real cross section of the community. so many times as a defense attorney i'm not able to get such a diverse jury. it's wonderful. in terms of the division of men and women it's equal. but if you are asking me about the racial makeup of the jury, i don't think race plays a part in the case. i think it's a cross section. that's what's important.

>> let me ask you. each side gets 12 challenges to strike down a potential juror. 20 people were dismissed in jury selection. what are the attorneys looking for when they want to eliminate a potential juror. >> what they are looking for is anything that will show that the potential juror would not be able to be fair and impartial if they were selected to sit. a lot of things come into play. you are not looking at demographics across the board. you want everybody to have a friend. for example, when they are on the jury. you don't want to have one female and the rest made up of males and vice versa. you don't want to have a jury made up of only eight minorities and a few caucasians. what you want to weed out with

the peremptory challenge they don't have to state a reason. with challenges for cause you can set up a bias a particular juror has to say this juror has a vested interest or they are skewed one way or another. they should be off. premt tri challenges were used equally. they had a different number they each used. at the end of the day both sides are looking for a fair and impartial jury to sit on the case. >> let me go back to you, michelle. a judge was asked to let them see wads of money, alcohol, and one is a blurry photo of mcbride holding what appears to be a gun. that request was denied. it seems they are trying to put

renisha mcbride on trial here. what's your reaction? >> the judge made a wise decision. that just shows bad character. that's not evidence. it's not appropriate to put before a jury. if the defendant knew of any of mcbride's propensity to carry a weapon, to be violent, that would be relevant to come in. this was a complete stranger. the judge made the right decision here. in terms of credibility. in terms of mcbride's character certainly as a defense lawyer, you are going to want to are bring that before a jury. it's going to be directly relevant that she was almost three times the legal limit. that's important because it goes to what she may have done in her actions on his por at 4:30 in the morning.ch at 4:30 in

the morning. bringing up irrelevant things about her maybe using marijuana or having a gun is not relevant in this case. the judge made the right call. >> we saw it in the zimmerman trial. could the information reported in the local news have tainted the jury? >> most definitely. this information would have tainted the jury. ultimately the jurors have to decide was it self-defense? was it stand your ground? detroit has that law which means if you feel as if you are in fear of imminent danger or death, you can basically use deadly force against you. the defendant will have a difficult challenge to meet. he has to show he was in fear, she was aggressive. she's there by herself.

there are other factors -- >> wait, wait, i completely disagree. >> we're out of time. >> oh! >> we are definitely going to debate this. >> sure. >> i disagree that race won't be a factor here. we will deal with it as the trial goes on. carmen st. george and michelle suskauer, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. coming up, a funny thing happened in washington. a bipartisan effort on jobs. amazing. new details from a police report about the choke hold death of eric garnerment it raises more questions than it answers. my thoughts ahead.

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fly to florida. win an award. close a deal. hire an intern. and still have time to spare. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business. built for business. the employment picture is getting better, but nearly ten million americans are still unemployed. but 4.5 million jobs remained unfilled. right now, there are many factors but one big one is the skills gap. in our ongoing advancing the dream series we are looking for solutions.

today, president obama signed one such solution into law. reforming the federal work force training system. >> if you're working hard, you should be able to get a job. that job should pay well. you should be able to move forward, look after your family. opportunity for all. even as we are creating jobs in this new economy we have to make sure every american has the skills to fill the jobs. >> we need skills training available to any american committed to working hard. 80% of middle skills jobs required just one year of training or less. today's bill was aware bipartisan effort. president obama thanked both democrats and republicans for their support. >> i want to thank all the democrats and republicans here today for getting the bill done. this is a big piece of work. you can see it's a big bill. but i'm also inviting you back.

let's do this more often. it's so much fun. let's pass more bills to help create more good jobs, strengthen the middle class. look at everybody smiling, feeling good. we could be doing this all the time. >> yes, we could be doing this all the time. imagine that. here's hoping this is one step in the right direction. vo: this is the summer. the summer that summers from here on will be compared to.

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♪ you never count your money, ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist, yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. so get out there, and get the best price guaranteed. find it for less and we'll match it and give you $50 toward your next trip. expedia. find yours. we are learning new details about the death of eric garner, the 43-year-old father of six will be laid to rest tomorrow. according to the new york daily news, an internal police report on the death does not mention a chokehold and states he was not in great distress. also today the four ems workers who responded to the scene were with suspended without pay.

but there are many unanswered questions. in the video we can see a police officer putting garner in an illegal choke hold as three others surround him. next you see another officer come in and pin garner's head against the ground. as he's pinned, this is what garner is saying. >> i can't breathe! i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> 11 times he says he can't breathe. then he stops talking, stops moving. how did we get to this point? the altercation starts with just two police officers talking to garner. almost 30 seconds later, four police officers are surrounding him. one puts him in a chokehold.

another 30 seconds go by. now seven officers surround him. he's not armed. he's down. soon after garner's motionless body lay on the sidewalk, hands cuffed behind his back. from the moment this video started we know it takes ems at least four minutes until they show up and the lack of urgency is stunning. >> sir, is everything all right with you now? ems. >> sir, ems is here. answer their questions, okay? >> he can't breathe. >> no cpr. no sense of urgency. no trying to revive him. how do we explain an illegal chokehold? how do we explain policemen doing nothing while they see the chokehold? how do we explain ems workers taking four minutes before they do their job as emergency medical service? there are too many unanswered

questions. too many people involved. that's why there is outrage and that's why we are going to stay on this until all those questions are answered and the people involved held accountable. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. obamacare under attack. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in san francisco. let me start tonight with the big news of the day in politics. today, two u.s. circuit courts of appeal went to war over president obama's number one legacy -- health care. one in virginia said the country could go ahead with the plan. the other, the one in the district of columbia declared the health care system illegal. it said it can no longer p