[announcer]even accents of vitamin-rich veggies. [guy] so happy! you love it so much. yes you do! but it's good for you,too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. truce extended. israel agrees to extend the cease-fire. we will go live to gaza and tel aviv to find out if that temporary cease-fire is holding. also, evacuating. u.s. war planes help hustle embassy officials out of libya. i'll talk to the chair of the house foreign affairs committee. >> they don't need to make the dangerous journey to the u.s. to make the asylum claim if they can be processed in their own country. >> new strategy on the border. the white house's new plan to stem the tide of undocumented children crossing the border. how will it work?

and football under fire. the nfl suspends baltimore's ray rice for two games for knocking out his then fiancee, then dragging her from a casino elevator. lots of folks are now wondering whether the league really takes domestic violence seriously. and father's rights. mom's getting maternity leave. what about paternity leave? i'll talk to the head of the government agency that just put out new guidelines designed to help dads get a jump start on fatherhood. good saturday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. first, breaking at this hour, in the ongoing deadly clashes between israel and hamas, the israeli government has agreed to extend the truce in gaza for four hours, until 5:00 eastern time today. the 12-hour humanitarian cease-fire between israeli and hamas was set to expire just about an hour ago. but at this hour, reports are coming in of mortar shells landing in israel. all of this happening as secretary of state john kerry is in paris working toward a more

comprehensive peace deal between the two sides. the palestinian health ministry says some 150 bodies have now been pulled from the rubble in gaza since this cease-fire started, bringing the death toll to more than a thousand now in gaza. israel says it's lost nearly 40 soldiers in the conflict. nbc's martin fletcher remains in tel aviv for us. martin, first of all, let's start with that report, an israeli press of a mortar shell falling. what more can you tell us about that? >> that's right. we're just about at 8:00, just when the 12-hour cease-fire was coming to an end. three rockets, the israeli army says that three mortar shells were fired from gaza into a southern area of israel, fell in open fields, didn't do anything damage, didn't hurt anybody, but of course, it's a threat to the cease-fire.

i think there's a tolerance for those staggering last-gasp efforts. there's no serious fire. but the real question is that israel has extended the cease-fire by four hours, and the cabinet will be talking about extending it further. but there's no word yet from hamas. whether they've agreed to the truce or not. >> we know again that as you just said, the united nations asking for a full 24-hour cease-fire. does that seem likely at this point? >> i'm guessing yes, but i'm guessing. i think it depends whether hamas fires rockets at israel or not. israel certainly -- they've agreed to the four-hour extension, discussed the cabinet meeting a 12-hour extension, which takes you to about 8:00 in the morning, overnight. another 12-hour extension of the cease-fire would be good news for the civilians in gaza who have been suffering terribly in the last ten days with over a thousand dead, 5,500 wounded.

but bear in mind one thing, when israel says cease-fire, they insist their troops will continue to be able to operate in gaza, looking for those tunnels. those secret tunnels. the network that leads from gaza into israel. so israel in one sense welcomes the cease-fire because it means they can continue looking for tunnels without the threat of their soldiers who are doing that who are in a static position being attacked by imfs. >> talk to us a little bit more about those tunnels and the efforts to destroy these tunnels in gaza. how many tunnels are we talking about, first of all, or do we know? >> reporter: well, israel says they discovered 31 tunnels with a good deal more entry points to those tunnels. the tunnels have more than the one entry shaft. and of course, israel has made the point, insisted that its main first goal in this operation is to find and destroy those tunnels. so they say they found 31 tunnels. they don't know clearly how

many. in the beginning, they said there were several dozens. they've also said it will take another week or two weeks to destroy the tunnels they've found and continue the search for more, so israel is demanding that they do not end the operation in gaza until what they called settle the tunnel threat, if that's possible. >> martin fletcher for us in tel aviv. i want to turn to nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel, who is on the ground for us in gaza. richard, where is hamas on extending the truce and negotiating a larger cease-fire? >> reporter: i wish i knew. no one here in gaza seems to know. unfortunately, hamas doesn't always speak with one voice. exile in other arab countries. so we really don't know. i think we will have to see the

results, whether the rockets fire out of gaza in the next several hours, or tomorrow morning. it's now evening in gaza. there is increasing pressure, however, on hamas from the local people here to find some sort of solution. i was just earlier today in the neighborhood that is east of gaza city. it's really part of gaza city. gaza city is so big, it has expanded even to neighborhoods that were once separated from the city. and i saw devastation. block after block levelled. saw families that had come to scour the wreckage to see if they could find their homes and couldn't even identify where their homes had been. about 100-plus bodies, 150 bodies were covered from rubble like what i saw today.

three or four neighborhoods like that all across the gaza strip. mostly concentrated around gaza city and in the south. so a lot of people would welcome this cease-fire. but they say that we need a lasting solution. gaza is a prison. it is sealed off by israel. it is sealed off by egypt. the people can't even go out in their boats to go fishing. also need a larger solution to this problem, which is -- i spoke to one political analyst. he said the war is death, but the closure is a slow death. >> richard, really quickly here, the community that you just described there. when all of this is over, who rebuilds those neighborhoods?

>> i >> reporter: i'm sorry, the connection isn't very good. could you repeat what you just said? >> who's beginning to rebuild those neighborhoods when all of this is over, who's going to be responsible for the rebuilding of these communities? >> well, it's a great question. because gaza is poor. the government run by hamas. although it's not a hamas entire government right now. it's now hamas in association with the palestinian authority. hamas is not internationally recognized by europe and the united states. it's recognized by some arab countries, not all. trying to have more legitimacy by making this alliance with the palestinian authority. not everyone has accepted this alliance either. so there's not a lot of place where is hamas or where the palestinians here in gaza can

get money. the financial infrastructure here is incredibly restricted. i spoke to one han man in that neighborhood, his house was destroyed. he was picking through debris. it was quite a desperate situation. went through this destroyed house and all he managed to find was a propane tank and dusty mattresses. he was telling me that it took him 30 years to save up and build this house, and his son was living upstairs. he had another brother living in another apartment in the building. they were all wiped out. this was 30 years of savings. 30 careers when the economy was better than it is right now. and he had no idea how he was going to start over. there's no insurance here. like i was saying earlier, the government does not recognize and doesn't have easy access to money. israel controls the border. so it limits access to basic building supplies. so a devastating event like a

war here has long-lasting effects. >> nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel for us in gaza. thanks as always. stay safe, my friend. another big developing story overseas, an emergency getting u.s. citizens out of northern africa. the united states has evacuated the american embassy in the libyan capital of tripoli. 150 americans, including 80 marines, were taken out by convoy in the middle of the night. they are now in neighboring tunisia. the embassy was never under imminent threat, but they say the move was as a result of increased fighting and fragility in the area. everything seems to have gone smoothly, but we are told the u.s. military operation involved two f-16s, a naval destroyer and osprey helicopters as well. congressman ed royce joins me now, he chairs the house foreign affairs committee. first of all, what more can you tells about that evacuation in libya? >> well, i talked to senior u.s.

officials last night about it. what i can tell you is that there are so many militia involved on the ground today in and around tripoli. and one of those factions that's there is ansar al shari'a, which is the same al qaeda affiliate that carried out the attacks in benghazi against our consulate there. what you see happening in these parts of the world is that those trying to expand shari'a law, all the way from nigeria across north africa into central asia have formed these al qaeda affiliated organizations and they are particularly dangerous. and in an abundance of caution, our embassy personnel are being moved right now. >> at this point, any idea when those personnel are going to be allowed to return? >> you know, one of the things we need to do is engage more

carefully and closely with security forces in these countries where, you know, as in this case, you had gadhafi swept out of power. and in the absence of gadhafi, the united states needs to really be engaged with all the factions, right? instead, in libya, you've got a situation where nature took its course. >> engaged with the terrorists? >> well, you're engaging actually with militia. those militia that are fighting each other, but are also fighting the al qaeda affiliate. >> okay. >> and that's where we've got to bring the factions together, the different communities together and say at the end of the day, you will lose to the al qaeda affiliate. they will have their shari'a law if you do not put together a common front and work with the united states and our other allies in order to offset their power. because they don't run away. al qaeda doesn't run away in

combat. they're there to martyr themselves. the militias will run in the face of that kind of jihadist enthusiasm. and this is increasingly what we're finding from nigeria to libya, all the way into isis itself in iraq today. >> i want to pivot here really quickly and switch topics and get your take on the other big story that we've been following, the fighting between israel and hamas. what's your assessment of what secretary of state john kerry has been able to do in the region over the past 24, 36 hours? >> you know, it's very difficult because the reason this fighting perennially comes up is hamas gets their hands on more and more lethal, long range rockets. it is iran that provides those rockets. i myself saw in the attacks that were occurring because iranian rockets were slamming into haifa in israel, and i saw 600 victims down there in the trauma

hospital, and what israel was trying to do twouz prevent those rockets from being launched by hitting the launchers.was to pr those rockets from being launched by hitting the launchers. they're trying to suppress those rockets from being launched while at the same time, the spokesman for hamas on television asked citizens to go up on the rooftops and be human shields. so it's a very, very difficult situation. hopefully we can get the kind of cease-fire -- >> so it is your assessment then that one of the reasons that we are seeing so many casualties among women and children in gaza is because hamas has encouraged them to become human shields? is that what you're saying? >> it's very unfortunate, but sami abu zari has asked people to go to the rooftops and this was reported, and of course, the problem here is that some

people, you know, in this kind of a situation take up that challenge to bravely go to the rooftops, but they're on the rooftops of buildings that have launchers near them or in them. now, the hamas leadership -- and this is the part that i find vexing. they're down in tunnels, asking that this be done. they're not themselves up on these rooftops. and there's 30 tunnels now or 31 tunnels that have been found. one to go in next to a kindergarten. three miles in, into israel, where you know that they're going to come up. and hamas is going to try to take civilians and take them captive or attack them in this kind of a situation. >> all right. >> so they're trying to close down the tunnels, right? >> congressman ed royce, we are out of time. congressman, thank you for your time on this saturday afternoon, sir. >> absolutely. thank you. the crisis on the u.s. border is america's fault. that's according to one central american president who was at the white house yesterday. we will talk about that.

we'll also head to 1600 pennsylvania to find out where things stand on president obama's request for billions in emergency funding. also, does the nfl take domestic violence seriously? that's what many are wondering after pro player ray rice's two-game suspension for knocking his then fiancee unconscious. honey, look i got one to land. uh-huh there's good more... honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. ooh, you got a buddy. i'm like a statue. i just signed up and, boom, all these points. ...and there's not-so-good more. you're a big guy... oh no. get the good more with verizon smart rewards and rack up points to use towards the things you really want. now get 50% off all new smartphones. can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that.

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tylenol pro football under fire. questions linger today about whether the nfl went far enough to punish baltimore's ray rice. tmz posted this video of the ravens running back dragging his then fiancee, now wife out of an elevator. the two apparently had just had a fight where rice knocked her unconscious. rice was arrested. he was charged with assault. the league suspended ray rice for two games.

now the nfl is trying to convince the public that it does, in fact, take domestic violence seriously. especially when other players have faced stiffer punishments for what are viewed as lesser infractions. jemele hill is co-host of "numbers never lie" on espn. you are among the sports insiders who think that this was a lean punishment. what do you think the league should have done? >> i mean, i think -- i mean, there's never going to be an appropriate number for this necessarily, because it's not like that image or those images of him dragging his then fiancee out of the elevator go away easily. but when you compare it to some of the punishments that have been delivered for things, you know, such as terrelle pryor who was suspended for five games based off violations he committed in college. okay, you have guys who are suspended for drug use or for

positive tests. that's an automatic four-game suspension and it only goes up if you are a repeat offender. so i don't know if roger goodell -- i know he tends to see things, as a case by case basis. all infractions or violations or other personal conduct policy. but this was so serious, and because of the presence of that video, two games is an absolute joke. >> "si"'s peter king saying one of the reasons he did not get a harsher sentence is because his wife made this personal appeal to roger goodell to not ruin ray rice's reputation or his career. nbc news has not verified that report. but if that's true, is that something goodell should have even taken into consideration? >> look, with all due respect to mrs. rice, her part in this, or for her to plead her husband's case, that should have been completely irrelevant. it was about what happened.

the video, protecting the shield and brand of the nfl. and also, oh by the way, the nfl just so happens to have a fan base that is -- that has 40% women. so the message you're sending to them is you don't take an issue that primarily impacts them very seriously. ray rice's reputation is for him to try to repair. the league, what they have to try to do is again, communicate with their own consumers. look out for the brand of the nfl, and roger goodell didn't do that. >> you know, back when goodell started in 2006, he promised to clean up the nfl. there was that "time" magazine cover with him on the front. "the enforcer." how would you characterize goodell's rein so far, especially as it pertains to things like this? >> well, i think that he probably, and deservedly so, got the reputation as the sort of

law and order commissioner. we saw there was obviously a pattern. you look at ben roethlisberger. again, that's another case. ben roethlisberger was never charged formally with anything, but he got a four-game suspension because that was that embarrassment and bringing negative publicity to the brand of the nfl. and i just feel like that he's always creating, roger goodell, a slippery slope with a lot of these punishments. there is no -- sometimes there appears to be no rhyme or reason to them. while he is among one of the more powerful commissioners in sports, i just feel as if that he's had some major questions to answer, be it about personal safety and concussions or about things like this. so i think right now, the jury is still kind of out about what his legacy will be as nfl commissioner. >> espn's jemele hill, always good to see you. thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, evacuated. americans at the u.s. embassy forced to leave in the middle of the night.

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for a body in motion. the israeli cabinet is expected to start meeting any moment mnow to talk about the temporary cease-fire that has been extended until 5:00 eastern today. the united nations is asking to extend the cease-fire for a full 24 hours. at this point, this has not been agreed to. meanwhile, palestinian officials say some 150 bodies have been pulled from the rubble in gaza since the cease-fire started, bringing the death toll there to more than a thousand. israel says it has lost nearly 40 soldiers in the conflict. here's a quick look at some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. the united states should institute stronger, wider ranging sanctions on russia. that's what the ukrainian president called for in a new op-ed in "the washington post" today. meanwhile, it's been nine days since malaysia airlines flight

mh17 was shot down over eastern ukraine. today, the parents of an australian passenger arrived unexpectedly at the crash site to look for their 25-year-old daughter. her remains have not been found yet. back here, attorney general eric holder says the justice department is "closely monitoring the investigation of a man who died while being subdued by the new york city police department in an apparent choke hold." that video shows eric garner repeatedly telling officers that he's not able to breathe while he's being arrested. two nypd officers have been placed on administrative duty while four other emergency personnel have been placed on desk duty. up next, who's to blame for the immigration crisis? one world leader is pointing the finger at the united states. we'll have a live report from the white house next. ion? yeah, we help with fraud protection. we monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. wow! you're really looking out for us. we are. and if there are unauthorized purchases

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these are some new pictures of the osprey helicopters that were used to help escort those 158 american citizens out of the country overnight, as we've been telling you. the u.s. evacuated that embassy. cover of darkness. they're all in tunisia right now, including roughly 80 or so mari marines. what more can you tell us about the evacuation and why it was done now? >> well, thanks, craig, for having me on today. we did relocate all of our personnel from the u.s. embassy overnight over land in a large convoy, moving from tripoli into tunisia. you showed the pictures of some of the defense department, resources they brought to bear. they also had f-16s. they had isr surveillance and reconnaissance support in the air. making sure our folks got through safely. and we chose to do this now because our embassy there is located in an area that's really been the scene and the center of

some of this very serious fighting between these different militias right now that are attacking each other. so it wasn't because of a direct threat to our embassy. it was really because we are caught in the middle in our embassy of this very serious fighting. so this is just temporary, our folks will be returning as soon as they can. do so safely, because it's important to be on the ground there. >> how does this affect our diplomatic efforts right now in that part of the world? >> well, certainly we remain incredibly deeply engaged with the libyan government to help them as they go through this at times very rocky transition to democracy. ambassador deborah jones is our ambassador to libya. she did leave with the convoy this morning, but will be returning as soon as she possibly can with her team. and we will continue to remain engaged. you know, i think it's worth remembering that it was only three years ago that the libyans really started down this rocky path, coming out of dictatorship

towards democracy. and we know this takes time. it takes generations, often, in fact. so we will continue our very close work. our very close assistance. helping the libyan government build its capabilities to fight these threats, which -- when you see militias openly fighting with each other, lobbing mortars at each other in the streets, it's clearly a very significant and serious situation we have here. >> really quickly, i want to change topics. while i have you here, let's talk about the crisis in the middle east right now. will secretary kerry be able to reach some kind of deal between israel, between hamas before he leaves paris? >> well, he's on the ground there, craig, working with a number of our international partners. the qatarys, the turks, a number of them to see if we can get in place a humanitarian cease-fire here. to give a little time and space for food and medicine and supplies to get to civilians who have been affected by this.

all you have to do is look at the pictures that your viewers are watching coming out from the ground today from the horrible tragedies we're seeing to know we need a cease-fire in place. so that's why he's in paris. he's working to make progress. but i don't want to underestimate for people how difficult this is. we've seen cease-fires in the past be put in place and tragically we've seen it recently not holding. so he's working very hard to see if he can get something done. as you know and your viewers know, he's always willing to be deeply engaged to see if we can make progress. >> at this point, any indication whether hamas has accepted or rejected the current temporary cease-fire? >> well, we've seen a cease-fire holding on the ground for the past few hours. so that i think has been a good sign. but what we really need is both hamas and israel to accept a longer term cease-fire. we really want to get in place a humanitarian cease-fire of about seven days, as the secretary has talked about. so we can have a little time and space to both get supplies to civilians, but also to see if we can negotiate a more lasting

cease-fire. both parties need to do so. that's why we're working closely with countries like qatar, who have influence over hamas and can push them, because as you know, we don't talk to hamas because they're a terrorist organization. >> marie, thank you. >> thank you. the white house this weekend is considering a new plan to give refugee status to unaccompanied children from honduras. but the president says any plan would affect a small amount of children seeking asylum. >> there may be some narrow circumstances in which there is humanitarian or refugee status that a family might be eligible for. if that were the case, it would be better for them to be able to apply in the country rather than take a very dangerous journey all the way up to texas to make those same claims. >> the plan would involve screening children in their home country to determine whether

they could even qualify for refugee status, and it could be expanded to guatemala, and el salvador. president obama made the comments after his meetings with the leaders of el salvador, guatemala, and honduras. the homes of the majority of the children who have been entering the united states illegally. let's head right to the white house. nbc's kristen welker is standing by for us. where do things stand on the refugee plan right now? >> well, craig, senior administration officials insist that no final decision has been made. they say president obama is still reviewing this plan, and again, the idea here is to have these migrants processed in their home countries, to have the deportation proceedings or the immigration proceedings, however you'd like to look at it, actually occur within their home countries before they make what the president described as a dangerous trek into the united states. as a way to really prevent people from making that dangerous trek. now, critics have argued that it sends the wrong message, that it's actually encouraging people to come here, but the white house says look, this is a more

orderly, organized way of doing this. in terms of how many people this is actually going to impact, the white house won't say specifically. top adviser cecilia munoz echoed what president obama said, that essentially this would impact a small number of children. some estimates put that number in the thousands. but again, white house officials not being specific about what they mean by that term small. now, as you noted, craig, president obama met with the leaders of the three central american countries here at the white house on friday, and his main message to them was that they need to do a better job of working with the u.s. to crack down on those smugglers who are bringing migrants across the border, and also to do a better job of getting the message out, that the vast majority of kids who come here to the united states, and this is according to the administration, will not be allowed to stay. the administration has launched that campaign over the past several weeks, and they say it actually is having an impact. they say that the numbers are starting to decrease, but they also say there are a number of

factors involved including the weather. >> nbc's kristen welker live for us from the white house on this saturday afternoon. kristen, thanks, as always. let me bring in victoria hurtado, the founder and editor-in-chief of the wise latino club. victoria, let's go over this plan first of all. how optimistic are you that something like that would even work? >> it's actually vivianna, craig. >> i'm sorry. >> no worries. it happens to all of us. the thing about it is this. it's very important to know that what we need to do is have a three-part solution. a short-term solution that deals with this flood of children, and many women. thousands of women who have arrived. and then you need more long-term solutions. medium and long-term solutions that are going to deal with the root causes of why these children are fleeing in such numbers to the united states. some of those solutions, craig, have to do with stamping out government corruption and impunity that is connected to these nefarious elements of human trafficking and the drug

trade. remember the influx, craig, of gangs. many of them are former gang bangers from the l.a. area that have been deported back to el salvad salvador, guatemala, and honduras. and we also have to talk about creating social and economic opportunity, and what is the role of u.s. policy in that. you can look at free trade agreements like nafta, north american free trade agreement, and realize how the flood of cheap american products, for example corn, into mexico ended up displacing workers. workers that ended up taking that trek north. >> president obama made clear in his meeting with those leaders yesterday that the children will be sent back home. is that message actually getting to the people who need to hear it the most in those countries? >> well, certainly, according to the administration, they have seen in the last week or two, according to the reports on the border, border patrol and so forth, a decrease in these numbers. the problem, of course, is the

deterrent is happening because of the stepped up efforts, and we know that there are media campaigns in central america. that message is being sent and it's being heard. but what do you do, craig, with the 52,000 children who are here in country? and the thing about it is about 40%, according to studies by the united nations, for example, would qualify for some kind of juvenile special protection. some kind of an asylum now that they're in country. the question is how is it that we're going to give them the appropriate proceedings that they are able to -- so that their claims and their voices are heard, and if they need the safety and protection of the united states, and, by the way, being connected with family because many of them have first-degree relatives that are already here. this is probably better for the welfare than some speedy deportation that could put them in pearl back in their nation. >> really quickly here, congress, as you know, just four working days left before its august recess to come up with an emergency funding plan for the border.

while republicans and democrats remain far apart on what to do, house democratic whip steny highw hoyer, he was on "up with steve kornacki" this morning. this is what he said. >> if the republicans allow themselves to deal with the immediate challenge, that is to fund the resources necessary to deal with the challenge and not get mired in an ideological debate or substantive debate on which there have been no hearings, then i think we'll do it. >> how realistic is he? how optimistic is that? >> well, when it comes to optimism and washington, i'm never going to be the person that's going to give you that sunny forecast. only because we have nothing but examples of how it is that our lawmakers won't get to the task at hand. but will engage in politics. the thing about it is this -- the money is running out. there's just about a week left before they go off for a month of recess.

and then the problem is going to not only remain, it's going to compound. and then we're going to get -- and we're already going to be in the midterm election cycle. so the question is to put aside the politics and deal with the humanity of these children and show the world that we do have moral credibility and we are a moral force in this world. >> vivianna hurtado, we'll leave it there. thank you. >> thank you. still ahead, father's rights. the government wants to help dads get a jump start on fatherhood. i'm going to talk to the head of an agency that just put out new guidelines for paternity leave. . i just saved 15% on car insurance in 15 minutes, so i took a selfie to show everyone how happy i am. really? because esurance saved me money in half that time. can i...? oh you can be in it! no need to photo-bomb me. hashbrown. selfie. yeah... that's not how it works. 15 minutes for a quote isn't how it works anymore. start with a quote from esurance and you could save money on

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students and doctors the opportunity to tap into networks of their peers to help diagnose difficult cases. that means second, third, even fourth opinion for many patients. almost instantly as well. it's a step up from texting an image where doctors can't protect a patient's privacy as well. dr. josh landy created the figure one app. good to see you, sir. thanks for being with me. >> thanks, craig. >> how does this thing work? walk us through it. >> sure. i'm going to show you here on the categories page what it looks like in the radiology and nuclear medicine category. so when we tap in, we can see immediately all the images pop late the screen. >> yeah. >> and as you scroll down, you can see that -- i mean, we could go down deep into this field. there's thousands of images. >> and these are images that patients have sent to their doctors. >> these are images that the doctors have taken either with their smart phone or up loaded with their smart phone. >> and why the need for this? >> well, using cases to teach medicine has been the case for

thousands of years. you know, initially it was using images in textbooks and stories and then it became photographs in yournls, and now we've just taken that one step further to be able to do it at any time in any place.journals, and now we' taken that one step further to be able to do it at any time in any place. >> what else can that thing do? >> if you tap into the image, you can see there's a conversation that happens right below every image, where users can ask questions and answer each other. they can address each other. just like they do in other types of social media. but this one, people seem to focus mainly on educational aspects or the interesting aspects or complexities of each particular case. >> it sounds almost like crowd sourcing for diagnosis, to a certain extent. >> yeah, it can be thought of that way. figure one is intended for educational and information purposes only. it's not a diagnostic tool. >> where in your personal experience have you found this helpful? >> as a practicing intensive

care physician, i have had the experience many times where it's 4:00 a.m., and i'm seeing an interesting or complex case by myself, and i don't have anyone to share it with. my colleagues have had similar experiences. a few years ago, i took that experience to stanford where i was a visiting scholar and did some research into the work flow. somewhere on the order of tens of thousands of times every day, young physicians are taking images with their smart phones and sharing them, to teach each other about these types of cases. what we wanted to do was take those experiences, roll them up within a way to protect patients' privacy and that's what figure one is. >> what measures do you guys have in place to protect a patient's privacy? >> there's a few different tools. the first is when the image is first taken, there's an opportunity for the patient to sign a consent form.

any user can literally scrape out of the image any pixels that might contain a tattoo or a name or a number or a face. and after that, the images are reviewed by our privacy moderators before they get made public. and after that, the images can be viewed by members of the figure one community. >> is the app itself, is it free? is there a cost associated with it? >> no, it's totally free. >> fascinating. thank you so much for stopping by. >> thank you for having me. >> and do you have a big idea? you can let us know about it on fw twitter. you can also shoot us an e-mail as well. our e-mail address is on your screen. bigidea.msnbc. hey. i'm ted and this is rudy. say "hi" rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. that's why i'm so excited about these new milk-bone brushing chews. whoa, i'm not the only one.

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so, should men be treated like women when it comes to

parenting? the federal government seems to think so finally. at least 66 countries guaranteed paid parental leave for fathers. the united states not one of those countries. now guidelines issued this month from the equal employment opportunity commission are setting some new standards for dads. here with me now the chair of the eeoc jacqueline berry. thanks so much for stopping by. >> thank you. >> first of all, these guidelines. what's in them? >> yes. actually, the guidelines deal with pregnancy discrimination. they grow out of our responsible to enforce part of the civil rights act of 1964, which was signed 50 years ago by president johnson. title seven of the civil rights act in 1964 prohibits discrimination in the workplace on the basis of sex and says that men and women should be treated the same in the workplace. >> so this extends to men. >> absolutely. absolutely. now, the reason that what we've done is significant for men, as you say, is that title seven and the laws that we enforce really

deal with stereotypes in part. and one of the stereotypes that was certainly prevalent 50 years ago when the law was passed was the idea that a woman's place was in the home, that men were the breadwinners. they were supposed to bring home the bacon. so a lot of the work rules and conditions that were common place at that time were based on this understanding of what a family was and who had responsibility for what within a family. the first case that the supreme court decided under the new law title seven is a case called phyllis vs. martin marietta. it struck down the policy of an employer that said that mothers with school age children should be treated differently than fathers of school age children. so it took on from the very early years these stereotypes about who had certain responsibilities in the home and who had certain responsibilities at work. >> just three states, california, new jersey, rhode island. they mandate paid leave for dads. what do we know about how successful or perhaps even

unsuccessful any of those programs have been? >> well, california, for example, has had a pretty generous policy about leave and accommodating the concerns and interests of both parents in a relationship. and, of course, other countries for many years have had some extensive supports for families and for care giving. the united states, as you've said, is not there yet as a whole. we do have the family medical leave act, which is an important guarantee that applies to men and women. it applies not only for taking care of children, but also for taking care of ill family members or for taking family leave yourself. but it is unpaid leave, you're correct. >> jacqueline berry, thank you so much for coming by to tell us a little bit more about these new guidelines. again, guidelines. these aren't mandates, are they? >> this is enforcement guidance. we provide it so people will understand what the law requires and what they can do to comply with it. and we know lots of employers

are already making these kinds of provisions for their employees because they understand how important it is to balance work and family. >> thank you. safe travels. coming up, the changing faces of historically black colleges and universities. i'll take you to the whitest hbcu in this country. also, that humanitarian truce between israel and gaza is under way. reports this hour, though, it could be falling apart. we'll go live to the middle east. ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪

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this as government leaders are still working to secure the scene. we'll have an update from the ground there. and forget a drug test. now your chances of getting a job at some companies may go up in smoke if you're a smoker. we're take you to the whitest hbcu in america and tell you what's going to happen there, could soon happen in other hbcus. i'm craig melvin. first, breaking at this hour, the associated press is reporting that hamas has just rejected the temporary cease-fire between hamas and israel. now under way. the israel military is tweeting that three rockets have fallen in israel. meanwhile, the israeli cabinet is expected to meet at this hour. at any moment now, to talk about what's next. secretary of state john kerry still in paris working toward a more comprehensive piece deal

between the two sides. the palestinian health ministry says the death toll in gaza has now topped a thousand. israel says it's lost nearly 40 soldiers in the conflict. martin fletcher joins us now from tel aviv. let's start with the most recent reports regarding the extension of this temporary cease-fire. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: craig, israel did accept a four-hour extension. there was that ap report from an official from hamas saying they rejected, then there was confusion because there was another report saying that they were considering it. but now the latest is this. the cease-fire is over. hamas has fired rockets at israel. in fact, the israeli iron dome was in action above tel aviv just minutes ago. so yes, hamas is firing rockets at israel, someone has to say that the cease-fire, which israel did accept, is not

active. so we're not sure at this stage whether israel has resumed rocketing gaza or not. but rockets are flying from gaza into israel. >> the cease-fire has been broken? >> reporter: that's right. >> how does this affect secretary kerry's efforts in the region? we know that he's still in paris right now, trying to broker some sort of deal. what does this mean for that? >> it's a major blow. they were trying to work on the 12-hour humanitarian cease-fire that was in operation today. kerry was hoping to build on that, slicely slice, if you like. four-hour extension, hoping to extend that to another 12-hour extension. basically step by step, slice by slice to get to a seven-day cease-fire, during which the issues would be discussed and hamas and israel could be closer

together and further fighting would be avoided. if hamas has resumed rocket firing into israel, which they have, it suggests the cease-fire is not only over now, but that he's not making that much progress towards a longer-term truce. but full credit where it's due. john kerry is trying and trying and trying in paris today. they brought together foreign ministers of several countries, all trying to come up with some kind of pay to stop the fighting but it so far hasn't worked. >> nbc's martin fletcher for us in tel aviv with the very latest. again, essentially confirming the reports that this temporary truce has been broken. thank you, sir. joining me now, democratic congressman jim himes. congressman, let's talk about the ideal end game here beyond just a temporary cease-fire.

what is it? >> obviously a big setback with hamas choosing for the second time not to abide by a cease-fire. as long as they are sending rockets over the border, as long as they continue their incursions via these tunnels, obviously the israelis are going to respond. it is imperative that these aggressions stop. and then all of the issues, we can begin to talk about them around a conference table. which is where this stuff needs to be solved if we're not going to see the daily toll of the dead that we have been living with for now well over two weeks. >> "the new york times" reporting that support for hamas is spreading. notably now in the west bank. one resident telling the "times," i give my children to hamas. my son who is 10 is asking how he can join these people. if the shift in hamas's popularity in the west bank -- if that shift continues, what's that going to mean? >> well, it's of course moves in

exactly the wrong direction. you sometimes get the d disspiriting feeling that the more violence there is, the more people seek desperate solutions to their problems, but that's exactly the wrong direction to go. look, hamas cannot win. hamas is not going to militarily defeat israel. so frankly, their continued military activity is both pointless and continues to put their own people at risk. at some point, the people of gaza are going to have to understand that they are being ruled by a group of people that the rest of the world considers terrorists and whatever their complaints against israel, both in the west bank and in gaza, there are people who have a long list of complaints against israel. whatever that list of complaints may be, being spoken for by people that the rest of the world considers terrorists, and who by their activities show themselves to be terrorists is not the way out of this mess. >> let's turn to libya now.

we know that u.s. officials were evacuated overnight from the embassy because of raging violence between local militias there. what more are you hearing about all of that? >> well, tripoli has obviously been going downhill for a couple of weeks now. the central government there has no ability to assert control outside of a very small area of the capital city. these militias that we were helping when they all sort of had their guns pointed on moammar gadhafi are now fighting each other, not unlike what we are seeing in afghanistan and elsewhere. and craig, who knows? who knows when it will be safe to put our people back from tunisia into the embassy in tripoli. but there's a larger lesson here that i hope is not lost as we think about syria, as we think about iraq. we were all in bringing down gadhafi. let it be known, very, very bad guy. but we always need to be conscious about what happens the day after when a very bad guy

goes away. we need to keep that in mind as we think about syria, egypt, iraq. >> it sounds as if you're suggesting, congressman, that perhaps some of these bad guys like bashar al assad, it sounds as if you're suggesting perhaps we should not be so active in trying to get them out? >> well, you know, interesting question. i'm not sure i'm ready to suggest that. assad is an awful human being. but if you think about syria and you ask yourself the question does the u.s.'s critical national security interests lie with focusing on assad, or is it to focus on isis, which now has about a third of the nation of syria and a good chunk of iraq, the answer is kind of a no-brainer on that one. our critical national security interest is in going after isis. look, if assad is replaced by somebody better, god bless. but there is a cautionary note here that these countries that have been held together by strong men for a very long time,

it gets an awful lot worse after they're gone, and but before it gets better. >> congressman, thank you. >> thanks, craig. overseas now, the investigation into malaysia airlines flight 17 today. the parents of an australian passenger who was on that flight traveled through the contested region. they traveled through this war zone. they showed up unexpectedly at the crash site to look for their daughter. her remap remains have not yet found. there's also word that russia is upping its involvement in the fighting between ukrainian forces and insurgent separatists. nbc's keir simmons joins us from ukraine now. keir, what's happening today? >> craig, ukrainian munitions have been pounding the northwest side of this city now for days. it appears that they are attacking a check point on the road by the airport, potentially trying to gain more criminal of

that particular side of the suburbs of donetsk. they have been it looks like firing missiles, possibly even dropping munitions from planes. it's difficult to tell because it's not easy to get so close to an area when that kind of munitions is being dropped on it. that is why it is so surprising to see these parents, george and angela, arrive at the site of the crash, where nearby, miles away from there, there is further fighting takes place near the russian border. more artillery fire. they arrived there. they said to look for their daughter fatima, who was 25. was onboard flight mh17. they brought flowers. and they said that they were determined to do everything they could to tray to find her. they flew all the way from australia, came into a war zone.

so clearly, they believe that they might have a chance of finding her. anyone would have to say that those chances are pretty remote. but what was also pretty stunning about it is that, of course, the governments who have nationals onboard mh17 are still trying to talk about trying to get their people here. the australian and dutch governments trying to put together police to secure the site. while at the same time, you have these parents managing to get there themselves. >> keir simmons for us in ukraine. up next, some companies are taking health screening to a whole new level. what big a smoker now means for your chances of getting hired. ♪

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about nine and a half million americans are said to be looking for work right now. companies will often ask potential employees to pass a drug test. even a background check before bringing them onboard. but now an increasing number of job candidates are being asked to do something else. prove that they're not smokers. an anti-smoking work force is not a new concept, but it is one that appears to be gaining some traction. companies like alaska airlines, union pacific railroad, gulf power, and the cleveland clinic all tell us that they have had smoking bans in place for years. employers say it's a move to control rising health care costs, while also making employees healthier. but where do you draw the line? i'm joined by katherine brady coppertino. her medical center is testing

employees to possibly weed out smokers. how do you test for smokers? >> the test is done with the pre-hire drug test. we added nicotine to the urine test that we currently do. >> so it's just your regular urine test. >> it's a regular urine test, yes. >> and what's the cutoff? i mean, do you guys -- is it within the past three months? or is it within the past two weeks? within the past year? >> no, actually, we're planning a year-long ramp-up here, where we're offering the community intervention, smoking cessation groups. a lot of free support to stop smoking. so our policy actually goes into effect july of 2015. and at that time, the way that it works is you come in, you are interviewed for a position, you are offered a job at the hospital, and then you go to employee health for your pre-hire drug test. so we follow the same routine that we do now for a routine

testing. at that time, an individual has the right to say to us, i am nicotine patches, therefore i'm going to test positive. so the prospective employee actually attests to their current use. if they test positive and haven't attested to a level of nicotine that we would find consistent with somebody using fda-approved treatment cessation aids, then we would not hire that individual. we will give the individual those six months to come back to us again, and in that time, certainly again, offer intervention through our free smoking cessation programs. >> 29 states, as you know, currently classify smokers as a protected class. much like race or gender. some people may see smoking as a nuisance, it is still perfectly legal in this country.

how worried are you that your hospital is setting a dangerous precedent here as an employer? >> i think you have to look at -- we all know the constitutional rights. we had to look there. and we know that we had the ability to do this. we then looked at our federal rights and we knew we were not violating any of the federal laws. and our state of maryland is one of the states that is an at will state for employees and we are within our right to do it. but we really wants to set more of a precedent for our vision of living healthier together. and that is really our whole goal here. >> what's to stop an employer from keeping track of, you know, twinkie or soda intake as well? >> sure. that's one of the most asked questions when we go out with our policy here. what we have with tobacco is

years of research around tobacco, its burden on health. 440,000 people die every year of tobacco-related diseases. it is the most preventable cancer that we have. and it's also obviously for heart disease. so what will prevent us from going further, we can't protect that future, but we do know that there are companies looking at things, such as obesity. that's not the position that the majority of health care organizations want to take. we don't think there's enough research as there is with tobacco to go down that path. so we're doing more with exercise, behavioral, lifestyle modifications, and trying to take a position of helping people with those other lifestyle needs. >> katherine brady coppertino, thank you. people across the country arrived by the busload today to attend a first ever national convention of fast-food workers.

it happened outside chicago, about 1,300 people strategizing there about how to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. they're pledging to do whatever it takes to get higher pay, more benefits, and union representation. they say more money will help them to take better care of their families. >> i'm here to keep fighting for my son to support him better financially and to stop living in poverty. and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. [guy] i know what you're you're thinking beneful. [announcer]beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas.

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moderate to severe is tough, but i've managed. i got to be pretty good at managing my symptoms, except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. when i finally told my doctor, he said my crohn's was not under control. he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb.

tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. if you're still just managing your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. breaking overseas right now, hamas has resumed firing rockets from gaza after efforts to extend a 12-hour cease-fire failed. that cease-fire officially ended at 1:00 eastern time. israel's military is saying at this hour that at least three rockets fired from hamas militants have landed in israel. the associated press reports that hamas did not agree to a proposed four-hour extension of the truce, which would have taken it until 5:00 eastern. this is some video from gaza city this morning.

during the cease-fire that has now effectively ended, about 150 bodies were pulled from the rubble in gaza. that's according to palestinian health ministry officials, bringing the death toll to more than a thousand so far in gaza. israel says it has lost nearly 40 soldiers so far in the conflict. but again, at this point right now overseas, it looks as if the truce has been broken. the truce is over. here's a look at some of the other headlines making news at this hour. clashes between militias in libya's capital in tripoli forced the state department to evacuate its embassy overnight. staff members were taken to neighboring tunisia. last hour, congressman ed royce, chairman of the house foreign affairs committee told me that the evacuation was done as a precaution. >> what you see happening in these parts of the world is that those trying to expand shari'a law all the way from nigeria across north africa into central asia have formed these al qaeda

affiliated organizations. and they are particularly dangerous. and in an abundance of caution, our embassy personnel are being moved right now. >> attorney general eric holder says the justice department is "closely monitoring" the investigation of a man who died while being subdued by police in an apparent choke hold. this zis eric garner repeatedly telling officers he can't breathe. and power is back up and running for thousands after this dust storm completely engulfed the phoenix area yesterday. according to local reports, that dust storm was 3,000 feet high and 30 miles wide. at one point, the storm forced a ground stoppage at phoenix sky harbor international airport.

still ahead here, we'll continue our special series on the future of historically black colleges in the united states. i'll take you to the whitest hbcu in america and we'll take a look at how what's happening there could soon start to happen to other hbcus, and what it all means. rged reward card with a new volkswagen turbo. so why are we so obsessed with turbo? because there's nothing more exhilarating than a powerful ride. and you can get that in places you might not expect. like the passat. and also in the fun-to-drive jetta. in fact, volkswagen has sold more turbos than any other brand over the last ten years. that is a lot of turbo. vo: hurry in and you can get a $1,000 turbocharged reward card when you lease a new 2014 passat s for $219 a month. now what if i told youok a hotel you can save up to 60%,me first. but you couldn't know the name until after you book? did i say never? i didn't mean it. ♪

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questions. we asked some of those questions at the whitest historically black college in america. when antonio bolden showed up at blue state college, he had one thought almost immediately. >> where the black people at? i was prepared for, you know, a much larger african-american group at the school. >> that's because blue field state is an historically black college. nestled between the peaks of west virginia's appalachian mountains, it was founded in 1895 as newfield colored institute, and over the years, became well-known for producing many of the area's black teachers. now, the school is known for something else. >> the whitest black college in america. >> that wasn't the case when russell and his sister lois studied here in the mid 60s. >> we loved it. it was just a real family experience. because it was small enough that most people knew each other. you only had the two dorms.

one male and one female. it was the 60s, so there was a lot of unrest, because we're dealing with social issues. bluefield itself was going through some changes. you know, desegregating some things. >> then in november 1968, simmering racial tensions on campus boiled over. a student was charged with bombing a gym. the school's president at the time responded by closing the dorms. a hefty blow for the school's black students since that's where nearly all of them lived. >> and when the integration started, it didn't bother us. the coaches started to change, get white coaches in. te there was no problem. and suddenly, bam. no dormitory. no football. >> that turned blue field into a commuter school for a community that was already largely white. today bluefield's state student body is 85% white, but it still maintains its hbcu status just like every other historically black college or university founded by 1965.

>> it has to strike you as at least a tad odd. >> it doesn't because, you know, as i go back, that's our heritage. that's how we were founded. >> brandon kirby grew up nearby and never thought about going anywhere else. >> i wanted to continue to stay in this community and continue to support this community. >> for the 21 applied science major who's looking to go to medical school, where he goes to school now seems to be opening doors. >> a lot of graduate schools like to have students from hbcus. it increases the university's diversity and they'd like to have students like that. >> but you're not black. >> right. right. i understand that. and that has been an issue that's come up, but because i'm from an hbcu, it still counts for that. >> a benefit for many students and the hbcu label boosts a school's bottom line, too. the 105 public and private hbcus nationwide get more than a quarter of a billion dollars a

year in special funding from the federal government, and also qualify for tens of millions more in special loans every year. how concerned are you guys that at some point lawmakers on the federal level change the rules and say this is a school that's 90% white? perhaps they shouldn't get $2 million a year for the 10% of the minority students who attend? >> actually, as i look at it, the hbcu designation is something that's historic. i mean, that's our legacy. that's how the institution was founded, was founded to serve the population of students that couldn't have had an education otherwise at that time. >> while a majority of hbcus are still overwhelmingly black, blue field is not the only one that's less black than it once was. in alabama, just 20% of the

student population is black. a trend that started with the landmark brown vs. board of education ruling. dr. marybeth gasman studies the changing face of hbcus. >> once african-americans could attend any school in the country, you do see hbcu's mission starts to change. >> today people that look like me have more options. should the role of historically black colleges and universities, should the role change from what it was then to today? >> well, basically, that role, as we were founded, and these two words are in our founding charter, affordability and access. so if you look very broadly, that was the role at that time, affordability and access. again, at that time, it was for black students. but it provided that affordability, that access.

that's exactly what we're doing today. we're doing it perhaps to a broader segment of the population. to students of all colors. >> and for today's students like antonio bolden, that's what counts the most. >> if you had known that there were so few black people before you showed up, would you still have come? >> yes. it wouldn't have been as strong of a yes. but i still probably would have ended up here. you can't really knock an education, especially if the school is giving you money, why run from it? >> why run from it? coming up, what actively recruiting nonblacks could mean for the future of hbcus. we'll talk to two graduates. she wrote of howard in a piece in "ebony" last year. howard is hallowed ground for me and a lot of black people. our school is known as the mecca. the mecca for black intellectuals. also, a graduate of florida a&m,

also an hbcu. he is currently working on his ph.d. dissertation on non-black enrollment at hbcus. they'll be joined by ben chavis. all of that and lots more after a quick break. ♪ during the cadillac summer's best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around $459 a month or purchase with 0% apr and make this the summer of style. ed a lift? covergirl and olay invented facelift effect firming makeup. luxurious coverage plus the firming power of a night cream to plump skin with moisture. new facelift effect makeup from olay and easy, breezy, beautiful, covergirl.

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here we are. where we are today. the whitest black college in america. >> all right, that was blue field state university he was talking about there. welcome back. joining our conversation, the senior editor at ebony. now working on a doctoral thesis on diversity at hbcus. and ben chavis, a former executive director is now the president and ceo of the national newspaper publishers association. always good to see all of you. thanks for being with me. ben, let me start with you, sir. on what level is the growing

non-black student body a challenge, or a benefit for the future of hbcus? >> i think it's a benefit. on behalf of the newspaper publishers association, we serve on the board of the national association for equal opportunity and higher education that represents all of the hbcus, and the p brvebis, the predominantly black institutions. this is not so much about the whitening of hbcus as it is the browning of america. the fact is hbcus are attracting more students because of the valuable proposition of hbcus. it's a great institution, lower tuition. even in the stem, we're graduating outstanding graduates all over the country who are getting good jobs. i can understand other hbcus, we see white enrollment is going to increase. and craig, right now, the congress is debating the re-authorization of the higher

education act. we want to make sure that the institution strengthens our sbcus and not in any way weakens the funding. we need more funding for hbcus, and so i see the increase in white students attending hbcus as a blessing, not a curse. >> rob, let me turn to you. this is something you said in a 2012 interview with "the huffington post." we should also probably note for our viewers here, rob, for the purposes of this conversation, you're a white guy, correct? >> correct. >> okay, i wanted to make sure we put that out there. that's relevant to this conversation. this is what you said in "the huffington post." should you be aware of the fact that you will be in the minority? sure. should you be afraid? absolutely not. in short, it was the best decision i have ever made. if i had kids, i would send them to an hbcu. what was it betabout your hbcu experience that was so important? >> you know, being a white student at a historically black

university afforded me opportunities to interact with diversity in really meaningful ways that really through my experiences i've come to understand are often unachievable at non-hbcu institutions. you can be a white student going through college and really have little opportunities to interact with people of florida. so being at florida a&m university provided me a community of individuals that really lived as a -- served as living narratives that you might see of people of color in popular media and forced me to reflect on my own racial identity in this complicated racial landscape. >> jemele, you wrote this "ebony piec -- "ebony pie" piece. how does the diverse non-black student body -- how does that affect the hbcu experience? >> i think that what it provides

in value for someone like rob, to be on an hbcu campus, when we start to see white folks and people of other races growing in numbers at our schools, african-american students potentially lose something. so it's not that i'm against diversity at hbcus and i think it's good that people are able to come and meet us and learn things that they wouldn't learn about american history elsewhere, but at the same time, where is our safe space? you know, where do we go to not have to explain how we comb our hair, how we speak, that we have to become a living counternarrative for someone else so that their experience is enriched, when we're living counter narratives to things that you see in reality tv shows or hip-hop music. when you go to a traditionally white school and have a black student there. so i just wonder what are we getting from this diversity? >> it doesn't sound that you think hbcus are getting a whole lot from this diversity. >> i don't think that we are. i understand in terms of some co

schools, we need them to survive. >> but is there not value in having a diverse campus, just in general? >> in general, sure. you can have a diverse campus at a state school, at any number of schools. but affirmative action programs across the country are being gutted. what are the increased opportunities for african-american students to go and get not only a top quali qu education, but one that centers around our existence as black people in the world. >> rob, what's your take on that? >> i think it's a fair criticism. i think that we do have to be cautious about increased white participation in a historically black university. people who are uncritical of race could easily come and compromise the integrity of what's being offered at the hbcu experience. but, you know, i think the hbcus do have a lot to offer non-black students. i would just hate for students not to have the opportunity to experience that. i just think that it's a place that really has the foundation of providing an educational

experience that's one of a kind. >> the reality, as you know, the reality is that a lot of hbcus are struggling financially. and i talked to a number of folks who said that one of the reasons that they have become so diverse is purely financial. >> well, i think all of our hbcus and pbis need stronger support. they need stronger support from the federal government. stronger support from state governments from across the country, but also people at large. african-americans spent a trillion dollars on the u.s. economy. we ought to be more supportive of hbcus. but i want to point one thing out, craig. hbcus have never been racially exclusive. even from the very beginning, most of our institutions are over 100 years old. and diversity makes the institution stronger, not weaker. >> to a certain point maybe? to a certain extent?

if you've got an hbcu that is 70% white, or 70% non-black, is it really then still fair to call it an hbcu? >> it's still fair to call it an hbcu based on its tradition, the definition that you outlined. i think the truth of the matter is hbcus are competitive, with non-hbcus. let's look at the academics. let's look at the excellence. let's look at the graduates. you can get a lower tuition at an hbcu and get a competitive. sometimes a superlative degree. undergraduate and graduate. and even go in post-doctorate. so i think, for example, morgan state has the best engineering degree program in the whole united states. of all degree programs hands-down. that's an hbcu. i'm an hbcu graduate. our country becomes more diverse, hbcus will also become more diverse. >> i want to take a quick break. we're just getting started here.

rob, thank you so much for being with me. up next, we're going to add a new voice here. should the federal government do away with special funding for hbcus? there's a guy who says yes. we'll talk to him after this. ] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" carmax is the best with a quick written offer, right on the spot. perfect for jeannine, who prefers not to have her time wasted. ...and time! thank you. your usual. she believes life's too short for inefficiencies. i now pronounce you husband and wife. no second should be squandered. which is why we make our appraisal process quick and easy, and why jeannine chooses to start here. carmax. start here.

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welcome back. many black colleges and universities are fighting for their survival and the problem is not new. it's about money. florida a&m graduate. joining the group, richard vetter. richard, let me start with you. you told time magazine, if you're going to give subsidies for institutions, you should not give it on the basis of some sort of historical legacy. why not?

>> well, it's nice. when the hpcus were started it was a good purpose for them. we had rampid racial discrimination in america. there were few educational opportunities for blacks in the united states. it made a lot of sense. today, something like 89% of black students in the united states attend non-hbcus. we have a lot of schools that are not designated that have far more african-american students than those that do. in an age with a multiracial society that is increasingly becoming tolerant of other races that we designate certain schools specially on the basis of race. >> it sounds as if you're saying that perhaps hbcus have out lived their usefulness. >> well, yeah.

i don't mean to condemn the existing hbcus. there's some fine hbcus. howard has been mentioned. morehouse in atlanta, spellman. wonderful schools for anyone of any race. i'm not condemning the schools. i'm questioning whether they should be given special status anymore and why other schools who reach out to a highly diverse population are not given that status. >> about a quarter of a billion dollars a year under the higher education act of 1965, this is what the law says. any historically black college or university established prior to 1964 whose principal mission was for african-americans, what kind of impact could that have

and should that have on federal grants? >> you know, i think the was and is part is important. i think that if you have a school that's now gotten to become majority white, it should not receive the funding that's designated for historically black colleges and universities. i don't think that funding schools that primarily serve african-american population should stop the government from sitting aside money going to school to make sure we're getting equal access to education and affordable education. i have to disagree with the last guest. we're still dealing with rampid racial inequality. we're still dealing with public school systems. age appropriate for college, we're dealing with struggling communities. we're struggling. we're struggling in the job market. the idea that we don't need special designations and money

earmarked for us or schools for us in 2014, is just laughable. >> rob, really quickly. i wanted to keep you around. what have you found so far with regards to your research. >> the preliminary findings aren't out yet. i've been focusing on examining what institutions may be doing that could be influencing non-black enrollment. does spending on instruction matter. spending on auxillary services. is there anything that hbcus are doing that might influence non-black enrollment. >> ben, let me bring that question to you. should hbcus continue to receive quarter of a billion dollars last year. should they still receive that money if they are not history or not still majority black in.

>> all hbcus should continue to receive funding from the federal government. they should receive funding from state governments. i think as the higher education act is re-authorized, hopefully members of congress will increase funding. i want to correct something that richard said earlier. the truth of the matter is 50% of all black college graduates graduate from hbcus today in 2014. while we have a large percentage attending, the graduation rates, hbcus have a high graduation with low tuition compared to other institutions. that's what's attracting whites. we should be advancing. this is no time to retreat from hbcus. >> richard, really quickly here. is there a better way, in your opinion, to go about funding

colleges and universities that are historically black? >> i think we should put the emphasis less on race and more on economic and social conditions. if we want to aid people who are poor, educationally disadvantaged, we should do so. we should allow them to attend any institution they want. not just a select number, a 100 or so schools that by some historic circumstance have been designated as hbcus. i think we're probably ought to switch the emphasis away from race and more to social economic conditions, a need for access and the like. >> we're going to have to leave it there. we're out of time. a big thanks to all four you have for spending so much time with me on a saturday afternoon. we'll continue this conversation

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