early." morning joe starts right now. this book is 656 pages of shameless name dropping. jim? >> tanz mean prime minister ma zin go pin dand i do some planting at a women's cooperative in. >> she just happened to be hanging out with many zen go in lamb deez zi. not impressed. there was no way on earth one woman can be in so many places at once. [ cheers and applause ] >> hillary clinton. >> now who's a name dropper, stephen. >> really? name dropper, that's not what my

good friend tom hanks calls me when we're hanging out at george clooney's place. >> i loved george. i wish i could have joined her when i had lunch with merrill street and raphael pereira. >> oh, raffy is such a cut-up, especially when we go camping with oprah. >> oh? >> does that surprise you? >> no, o is what her real friends call her. >> i know paul mccartney. >> i negotiated with hamid karzai. >> i shared an office with steve carell. >> i've held high level talks with chinese state counselor. >> well, now you're just making words up. i will have you know, madam, i once did an entire show with

president bill clinton. >> i hate to break this to you stephen, but i've met him, too. >> good morning. it's wednesday, august 6. >> good stuff. she did great. she looked great. she was funny. she should take him on in the stump if she runs. >> former communications director for president george bsh nicolle wallace. contributor john heilemann, political writer for "the new york times," nicholas poff sorry. i've said it a zillion times. also in washington, white house correspondent for the "wall street journal" carol lee. i want to thank all of you to join us this morning. a lot to talk about. of course, the news out of afghanistan, just devastating for the military and it continues. this is the front page of the

"wall street journal." it's the lead there. also the lead story in "the washington post." it's the lead story in the "new york post." everybody talking about that. we've got that to cover and an awful lot more this morning. but this morning let's start with the pentagon investigating that attack in the military base northwest of kabul that left a two star army major general dead. that's the highest ranking american killed in the iraq or afghanistan wars. in fact, you'd have to go back to 1970 in vietnam to have another officer with that high of a rank killed. 55-year-old major general harold green was the second highest american serving in afghanistan. he saw the transition efforts to hand over to afghan troops. other coalition officers were at camp tuesday when an afghan soldier opened fire, seriously injuring several before being killed by return fire.

the 15 wounded they included eight americans, two british, one german and four afghans. these insider attacks as we all know have been largely on the decline as international presence has started to wind down. in 2012 is when it was the worst here. the two attacks so far this year. to talk about it more let's bring in nbc news military analyst, retired general barry mccaffrey. first i have to ask you what are you thoughts about the tragedy in afghanistan? >> a huge loss, very talented officer, phd in political science, one of our real technical experts. remember this comes on top of 22,000 plus killed and wounded in afghanistan. there's been a pretty bloody conflict. i think the lack of transparency in reporting these insider attacks is something we ought to

be concerned about. we're only talking about the ones that result in u.s. killed by the insider attacks. there are many more than this actually occurring. a huge chasm of trust opening up between the afghan security forces and the nato forces. >> so tell us what we're not hearing. why are these attacks being swept under the table? >> i think a lot of it, of course, is just an understandable feeling and a part of the isap nato headquarters. they don't want to accentuate the growing insecurity throughout the country. the reason i make a point of this, joe, looking forward, 10,000 troops spread out in small packets across the country. our combat forces zero out, very vulnerable, not just killed and wounded but abduction. it's a policy process we've got to think really carefully about. >> what's the best way forward?

>> at the end of the day afghanistan is going to make it based on afghan people, political leadership, police and army. a robust u.s. embassy with a lot of u.s. marines around it, maybe holding open the airfield at bagram is what we should be doing and not thinking about an enduring presence throughout the country. this is an ethnic civil war that we're unlikely to change substantially with a 10,000 person footprint. >> general, we were talking about the logistics of how this would work. we are working hand in hand, literally that's how our soldiers are handling this. how would it work? would you envision our troops staying in a secure facility or embassy and troops will come in for technical training or for strategic training, how would the interactions work under what you envision sf. >> i'm less clear on how it

would work than the valabilities of leaving packets of troops all over afghanistan. right now we have intelligence officers throughout the country. they do pretty well. remember they're backed up by not just combat forces of the u.s. army, but also medevac helicopter support, all that's going to disappear as we drop to a very small footprint. again, i think we have to rethink that policy. we ought to find out how many of these inviteder attacks are occurring that don't result in deaths. we've got a giant lack of trust going on at the lowest level between afghan police and army and nato forces. >> general, before we go, i need to ask you about this. obviously afghanistan on the front pages of all the newspapers today. over the past several weeks we've been seeing on the front pages of all the newspapers israel and gaza. before that syria would bump in

and out. it seems to me, though, when i talk to military men and women, foreign policy analysts, they say the most dangerous thing happening on the globe right now is not even in the ukraine, it's in iraq, it's in syria, it's i.s.i.s. you've been there. you fought there. do you agree right now that what's happening with i.s.i.s. is something americans should be paying closer attention to? >> well, it's just another indication of an enormous shift. these post world war i boundaries in the middle east didn't make any sense on religious and ethnic grounds. there's going to be a readjustment. it's going to be bloody, take ten years to sort it out. at the end of the day we're more likely to see kurds and shia, if they don't trust each other, historically they're well argued that they shouldn't. inside iraq, for god's sake, when sunnis had control of the

country, they slaughtered hundreds of thousands. >> general barry mccalf free, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you coming in. >> thank you. >> you see the polls yesterday? >> almost makes you feel bad for the president. >> it makes me feel bad for everybody. >> it's bad everywhere. >> the president at his lowest approval rating ever. congress at its lowest approval rating ever. the republicans are -- hey, this is great for republicans, because the president is at his lowest ever. 75% of americans think we're going in the wrong direction. hey, republicans 80 seals, 90 seats, maybe 1,000 seats. hold on a second, r' approval rating is at 19%. democrats are at 32. not much better. holy cow. this is like the friends and family plan. friends am family report what's

happening in congress. republicans at 19%. the president horrible at 40. the president ain't running for re-election again. republicans still sitting at 19%. you've had bill kristol. you've had moderate becomes, me, you, a lot of people saying for two years now it is not enough to be against barack obama. you've got to do more than investigate. you've got to do more than spit on the ground and grumble and scratch yourself when you go back to your district and grunt and say i'm against barack obama. >> shut down the government. >> you've got to do something. they're at 19%. republicans, you can be pissed off at me if you want to. i don't know. it's the first republican elected in my district since 1873, won four landslides, won by 70%, 80%, i don't know, maybe i know something about this. i know you don't like when i talk about when i was in

congress. >> we love it. i love it. >> that's why you're on the set right now! that's the only reason. >> most of america can listen to you talk about that, the mood of the country would lift. >> oceans would part. >> sunshine and rainbows for everybody. >> let me tell you, at this point right now people would look back to this time as when the oceans receded, the earth began to heal itself. what else is he going to do for us? >> what else happened? the oceans would part, i think the big greek columns would be erected. >> the playing of frogs in washington according to those polls. >> but now the oceans is apparently not receding, locusts are coming from the heavens and eating the flesh of people in washington, d.c. look at the numbers, barack obama's approval rating 40%. a lot of people not happy about that.

54% disapprove. not sure, 6%. we have a couple more years of this going. you keep going through the polls. the other polls, nick, republicans sitting at 19%, democrats at 32%. republicans win the generic ballot, 42-43%. >> 44.3. >> this number is troubling, 36 approval on foreign policy, 60% disapprove. it shows when the world is a mess, as madeleine albright said, people hold the president responsible. >> you go down the approval/disapproval on foreign policy -- americans say we don't care what's going on in foreign policy, but boy when it's going bad they turn on the president. >> a lot is happening. there's a sense of the world is spinning out of control and the average person isn't quite sure why and they blame the president. >> i think the average person doesn't think the president

understands why. the public has lived through chaotic times. the public doesn't feel like the president understands. >> you look as the world is spinning out of control. i had a good friend say last night to me. things are crazy, what's happening? i'm scared. this was a liberal democrat. you look at the approval ratings we just flashed up, 36% approve of the foreign policy handling, 60% approve. >> those are george w. bush numbers. >> yes. the difference being a lot of the disapproval around bush's foreign policy. be had hundreds of thousands of troops deployed. people. >> reporter: very anxious and very angry. >> what was the low of your approval rate sglg that was george w. bush minus 13 percentage points towards the end. about this time i think he was sitting about the same as barack obama. he started plummeting soon after that. >> the interesting thing about this is the point you just made,

in terms of practical consequences, no doubt the country is depressed and having a bad summer. that 43 to 44 congressional balance, it's not a wider spread, you've got the cross-tabs of this poll saying not a wave election. this doesn't look like 2006, doesn't look like 2010. voters are not hugely motivated in looking toward the midterms. the people who thought this was going to be another big wave election seem on the basis of this poll to have been wrong. >> i don't know where the wave comes from. >> no galvanizing issue right now. >> or candidates. there's also not a group of candidates running on change or running on a new direction or running on a cohesive or understandable foreign policy. the republican party is pretty fractured. >> you don't have what you had in 2010 where you had a new force, new energy, the tea party movement comes in and all get swept in, the establishment

candidates winning last night. pat roberts, another establishment candidate. >> our insurgencies abroad are bad for barack obama. insurgencies at home for the gop are bad for the gop. there isn't a central organizing thing for anybody. moreover, when you look at this poll, at first i thought, this is like we're mad at everybody. it's two different houses casts potses on other houses. half of the people say i want to elect a congress that doesn't block the president. two different countries here and they're divided. >> carol lee, you cover the white house. what are they going to do over the next two years to turn this ar sflound we seem, do we not, when you're in there day in and day out, we seem to be stuck in a holding pattern? >> that's absolutely right. if you look at -- part of the

problem, i think, if you look at what the president is saying, what his message is publicly, there's a total disconnect between clearly what the american public feels and what he is saying is going on in the economy. on friday he came out and said things are getting better. clearly people don't feel that way. the president was campaigning, raising money in california a few weeks ago and he was saying people feel better than they did five years ago. some of the folks who were interviewed who participated in this poll explicitly said they don't feel better than they did five years ago. so i think what the white house has to contend with is how you match the president's rhetoric and how he's approaching the public on this issue with what you're seeing in this poll which is that people are not feeling good about the future. the 79% of people who think their kid's future is not going to be better than their own, that's a huge number. >> that is a massive number.

nicole, things aren't getting better. listen, the economy is getting better. i've got a news flash for everybody. you don't feel it and it certainly -- maybe it's what ronald reagan said, a recession is when your next-door neighbor has lost their job. a depression is when you've lost your job. the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. the divide is sickening and continues to grow. but the situation for the middle class is far better today than it was two years ago, four years ago, five years ago. things are getting better. it doesn't show up in these poll numbers. and i wonder how much of that -- i'm not blaming the president at all. >> i will. he's made it all political, joe. it's all political. >> this is a stylistic thing. the guy, i'll just say it, everybody that knows him, everybody that talks to him,

everybody that works for him says the guy doesn't like his job. he doesn't want to be there. >> he also makes everything political, even the good things. even when he goes out and talks about making community college less expensive. that's something more available to a lot of families than a four-year university, it's wrapped in politics. when he goes out and talks about income inequality or making taxes more fair for families, it's always wrapped in politics. >> don't all politicians do that? >> i don't think so. i think obama has taken it -- >> keep a straight face. >> i think obama has politicized things that previous presidents have not taken to such a political -- i think the trash talking, the den grading of republicans, every policy announcement in a political wrapper is a loser. >> john heilemann, what say you? >> there's a deeper thing going on. no doubt the economy is in a better place than it was three years ago and the unemployment

numbers are better and jobs are being created. in the end we still have flat wages in this country for the last 25 years and great inequality. people still feel that. the question about whether people think the world is going to be better for their kids and grandkids and about whether they see improvement, even if they have a job, they're not keeping up even with minimal inflation. >> 40% of people have someone in their household who has lost their job in the past five years. can you imagine how that echoes through the country? it's a sense of insecurity that is always there. it could be me next. even if you have a job, it doesn't mean your life is getting better. >> carol, you're right. there has to be great frustration for the white house. they see the economic numbers that look more positive than they were two, three years ago. and so does the president pivot back for the 28th time to a new job, hey, i'm going to focus on

jobs now. it has to be extraordinary frustrating. is there any indication that he is going over the next couple years, especially if republicans win the senate, is he more inclined to have to sit down and strike deals with republicans that don't like him anymore than he likes them? >> well, they would tell you that he has been trying to focus on jobs and the economy, he's stuck to that message di des despite some criticism that he should be folk kug cussing on some of the foreign policy issues on the front pages of the newspapers. but i think there is a theory emerging out there that if the senate switches over to the republicans, that the president will be freed in some way and be able to sit down and cut deals with republicans without having nancy pelosi and harry reid pulling him further to the left and that he does want to cut deals and they would be able to get things like some of the trade policies that he's been pushing which drem kratz do not

like or tax reform, comprehensive tax reform. the republicans want that, or even immigration reform. they still hold out hope for that. so there's the silver lining, if there is one, and we're not going to see a wave election this year, the republicans will do well, and there's a good chance that the senate will go. but it seems like, you know, there's a possibility he could make some progress on some economic issues if it flips. >> carol, the worst thing that happened to bill clinton, new democrat bill clinton was he was strapped with some left wing democrats in congress that would stop him from moving to the senate. the second republicans took over in 1994, the guy spent the next six years striking deals and making things happens. who knows? you never know what happens in washington, d.c. and you never know what happens on "morning joe." still ahead on "morning joe," the nation's katrina vanden heuvel and ari fleischer join

us. they are going to scrap in the 7:00 hour. they've got to boxing gloves. it's going to be amazing. plus reagan revisited, modern conservatism with the 40th president of the united states and how a lot of conservatives kind of forgot every single lesson he tried to teach them. the steroid era. anthony voss strikes a deal to reveal his entire performance-enhancing network. this is huge. espn's collin coward is going to be here. the herd is in the house. a whole lot more in a few minutes. we'll be right back. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs.

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from the taliban emerged yesterday as he prepares to be questioned by an army investigator. the images taken by his lawyer yesterday, the first glimpse of him since returning the the u.s. he'll be meeting with a general to discuss the circumstances around his capture in 2009. he was released after five years in a prisoner swap last may. from "the new york times," a scary scene unfolded yesterday in times square in new york city. there were two double decker tour buses and they collided. 15 people, mostly pedestrians were hurt. what you can see in this earth cam footage. a bus hit a light pole, falling onto a sidewalk full of people. her head lodged before a dashboard. first responders had trouble get together the scene in the heavy traffic and crowds with many arriving on foot. >> you do that very well, by the way. the "wall street journal," 21st century fox has withdrawn the

bid to take over time warner. fox cites an 11% drop in the price. the deal would have united the two largest movie and tv studios in what was once the biggest media merger in a decade. the funny thing is, after they announced the deal, time warner's stock dropped, rupert's stock goes up. guess what? he's in a better position to do the deal now than he was yesterday. >> you know what the lesson of that is? rupert always wins. i'll tell you another guy who always wins, donald trump. in the "philadelphia inquirer" the donald is suing the have his name removed from the two remaining casinos in atlantic city he used to control. the real estate mogul reveals the plaza and taj mahal are deteriorating and tarnishing his brand. he hasn't operated the casinos for several years. one already closed, two set to

close next month and one up for bankruptcy tomorrow. >> a reason we call him abraham lincoln of our time. look at him. he's a born leader. if they're not treating his casinos right down in atlantic city, you got to take care of it. >> that's the whole problem is having casinos in atlantic city left. falling apart, not up to the standards of the donald's other properties. this is a high class problems to have, buildings with your name on it in a city you left a while ago. >> my favorite donald trump moment. he's $9 billion in debt and the banks are going after him. he goes out to a press conference. he's like, i'm going to be fine. can i ask a question, just one question. has anybody in this room been in $9 billion in debt before? okay, fine. you don't know how to handle it. i do. he told the banks, foreclose on

me. you can foreclose on me. >> i tried to have the same conversation with my credit card company last month. didn't work. >> can't pull it off. you're not the abraham lincoln of our time. if you've ever taken a train overseas, you've probably seen the sign that says mind the gap. here is why. got his leg trapped. rescuers rush over. the passengers decide to get involved landing a few hands to push the train off the man just enough to get him free. he escaped unharmed. >> how is his leg? >> his leg was not available for comment. with us, chief white house correspondent mike allen here with the morning playbook. mike, it says rand paul wants to run for president. >> ah. >> does that make you sigh?

>> it makes me tired. >> nicole just -- don't hold back. >> i think rand paul had a very bad week. i think offending the dreamer on the stump. i think he's stitching together. >> mike, i've said it before. i like rand paul, and if like yahoo! -- they want to do whatever they want to development i voted for his father in the primary in 2012. i you know what? i carry the scars. this guy is not going to be president of the united states, and in large part, i think it's because of his former positions, they're going to catch up with him, all the stuff that's gone in the past is going to catch up with him. one of those things, his position on aid to israel in 2011, it's a newly elected senator, he actually talked about cutting foreign aid to the middle east, and here are his

original comments. let's take a listen. >> you want to end all foreign aid as well, right? >> the other day, 71% of the american people agree with me, when we're short of money, when we can't do the things we can't do in our country, we shouldn't be shipping it overseas. >> what about the $3 billion that goes every year to israel. you want to eliminate that as well? >> i think what you have to do, when you send foreign aid, you send quite a bit to israel's enemies. >> it looks like egypt gets almost the same amount. >> really, you have to ask yourself are refunding an arms race on both sides. i also have a lot of sympathy and respect for israel as a democratic nation, as a fountain of peace and democracy within the middle east. but at the same time i don't think funding both sides of an arms race, particularly when we have to borrow the money from china to send it to someone

else, we can't do it anymore. >> never introduced any legislation that targeted israel in any way. spent the last three months trying to target aid to hamas and the palestinian authority. i think to print headlines saying rand paul wants to end aid to israel is just not true and inappropriate and really doesn't represent the truth. i've spent three months trying to end aid to hamas. when you print an article, it's inflammatory and it's also trying to ask you a perception or develop a story line of me that's just frankly not true. >> it's frankly not true except for the fact that it's true. you go back and look at the clip. he says he's going to end all foreign aid. he includes israel in that. and again, mike, i like rand. i like a lot of the positions he stands for. he runs around saying he's going to end all foreign aid to

israel. we have to be grownups on the world stage. who likes foreign aid? none of us like foreign aid. guess what? you have to do it if you're running the free world. >> that's right, joe. you know you're in trouble when you're referring to your own words as inflammatory. that's going to be a problem. >> like paul krugman, when i quoted his words back to him, he's like, come on, these are sleazy tactics they're your own words. rand paul is in the same position. they're his own words. >> we have a piece up this morning, rand versus rand looking on his evolution on a variety of issues, drones, immigration. he was a senate candidate that once talked about having buried electrical fences at the border. of course, it evolved as he got in. his staff is he hasn't changed his position but come to realize what you can get done.

joe, a huge moment coming up for smat tore paul who has had a great spring and summer, doing well in the invisible primary of buzz, message, travel. he's in iowa right now. we learned that at the end of september, early october, he's going to give a speech on the topic that joe, as you know, is his biggest problem, the biggest hurdle to him getting the nomination, foreign policy is isolationist. he's going to give a speech at the national defense university where he's going to argue on the spectrum, be involved everywhere, be involved nowhere. he's smack in the middle with ronald reagan, george h.w. bush -- >> we shall see. sometimes candidates who underpass their past, look at me, i got elected to congress despite the four years i did in a turkish prison. they did a movie about it. wasn't it a great movie? >> what do you think the percentage of likelihood is that before the end of the year we'll see rand paul campaigning in a

yamaka? >> pretty high. >> he was in iowa. i'm not knocking him. i'm just -- you know what? this is what i do. this is what i do. i get paid a lot to be wrong. so i'm sure i'll be proven wrong here. he's a fascinating guy. he's a fascinating candidate, and i think he has absolutely no chance to actually be elected president of the united states. we shall see. carol lee, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> hope you'll come back soon. >> sure. up next, you know what? she didn't seem too excited. she was like sure -- this is the last time. >> you've already burned your bridges with the paul administration. two years before he becomes the 45th president, you've already burned him. >> beat the rush. >> burn him down. >> i'm right on this. i'm right on this case. they'll forgive me. most people forgive me. >> isn't he right on the foreign aid.

doesn't your average voter is like why are we giving this money? >> no, he's wrong. coming up next, one of the most entertaining voices in sports talk radio about to join us onset. he is a god. the herd is in the house. colin cowherd will be right back talking about roids, college football and every question that real millions of viewers have sent in. in new york state, ♪ and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov

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it's not going to be longer than that. this is my show. we'll be here for five hours. the herd is with me, colin cowherd is here. his mom when he was born said he shall be called the herd and he is. colin, thank you for being was. the book "you herd me." i'll say it if nobody else will, is out in paperback next month. also here, mike barnicle. what's going on man? i'm a huge fan of yours. that's awesome. >> you know what, my wife is in florida doing work. i said you're not going to believe what show i'm on this morning. she said don't even do that. i said "morning joe." i don't explain stuff, i show up

on tv. i don't know how it works. you just show up on stuff. >> so your friends, a buddy of mine, paul finebaum, at times the most hated man in the state of alabama. i love him because he says whatever he wants to say. you say whatever you want to say, man. >> paul and i get along. i was on his show yesterday. he's very polarizing. i tell people in the northeast, they love baseball but they don't get college football. guys, just think of fenway park and all the passions. like nine of those down near atlanta. that's what the south lives for. just respect and love their passion. it's the same in liverpool with their soccer teams. america is amazing. depending on the time zone you're in, the passion changes. in the south and paul is at the center of it, they live for that sport. >> listen. it ain't the nfl. we grew up with the nfl bed sheets.

we don't care about sunday. we care about saturday. >> you wake up on a saturday morning in nashville, huntsville, ever boyd has their sports page. they are in their restaurant or bar, it's 7:00 a.m. they're there to that cbs or espn game turns off at 11:30. >> you say this year, it taint sec going to win the national championship, it's going to be acc. you think fsu. >> i think florida state will meet up with oklahoma in a championship. i don't think they're as complete as alabama. >> they don't have to go to baton rouge. >> auburn's schedule is outrageous, the toughest college schedule i've ever seen, especially october on. alabama has the most complete roster. i don't leave them yet at quarterback. i think georgia is really good. if you look at florida state through the acc, i think they'll mow through it. oklahoma will lose one game but find their way to it. out west, i think ucla will escape. the sec deserves in my opinion two teams in this forum.

it's like the electoral college. the reality is based on population ohio is more important than rhode island, california is more important than maine. based on the population in the south and their high school players that go to sec schools, they deserve more votes and more people in the college football play-offs. they should have two a year until somebody proves -- >> what are the reasons i can't watch the nfl anymore? i'll watch occasionally. i'm sorry, the guys are just -- they look roided up man. you've got these guys that weigh 800s, they run four two forties. why is it that baseball does the right thing and police themselves but nobody else does. it's almost like baseball cut themselves off at the knees. they should have dragged the nfl with them and everybody else. >> the george mitchell report when baseball said we're going to get george mitchell and find

out who is using, i said on my radio show, i thought it was an absolute horrible decision. here is our laundry, we'll hang it out. >> nobody else does. >> baseball by far and away now has the best system. people do a more moderate version of testing. the reality is baseball is, once again, what is the national narrative this morning on baseball? there's a user, a seller, anthony bosch. we're not talking about the race. last night yankees tsh tigers. the american league east is wide open and we're talking about anthony bosch. >> shouldn't the nfl do what major league baseball has done? >> you're really -- i can just sense that. >> i want to. it is an unnatural sport. tim miklaszewski who is the pentagon sport. he used to do radio. tom landry was looking at how fast and big everybody is getting, tom landry said this isn't my game anymore, it's too

dangerous. this isn't the game i started with. >> roger goodell has tried to limit shots above the shoulders and has been panned by his own players for it. the nfl totally understands. the concussion issue is the one issue that can bring down the league. you have a powerful company, it's lawsuits or certain things that can bring down a company. in the nfl it's the concussion issue, they're trying to lessen the injuries. the reality is high school players are bigger, steroid use is up in high school, college players are bigger, the game is faster. now it's no huddle. now it's spread. there's a lot of issues here with injuries in the nfl. >> the bosch report, it was aimed principally that he was selling steroids to high school kids, not major league ball players, not nfl football players, kids, and that's where the root of the danger is. that's why you have to have stronger drug policies at that

level. >> i heard a story yesterday on radio, not sure where it was, that kids now are not just taking hgh, young boys, for football, they're taking it to just look better. they just want to look better. >> hey, old dudes are doing that. you see these 65-year-old guys -- you never see donny deutsche? they're out here. you think barnicle's physique is natural? everybody is taking hgh. >> the juice is loose. >> you're not a user or believer yourself? >> no, i'm not. i'm a believer in the lord. >> you look great. >> i do. >> you should see barnicle without a shirt on. it's something. >> you guys are both, despite this hectic life, you both really have aged well. [ laughter ]. >> i ask you this question, so i don't watch the nfl on sundays anymore. i'm an sec guy and european

football. i love the epl. i've got to ask you about mike francesa. is he still over at fan? >> yes. >> i saw him one time working at cbs for a couple years calling football games. alabama is playing boston college and he says, like when boston college is going down the field, if we don't get a first down here, we're in trouble. i love this guy. he falls asleep. it's awesome. he's a runaway beer truck, as we say in the south. remember what he was saying? they use both of their feet? >> he's old school, and he loves baseball, that's great. he loves the nfl. he does a fine job. but i kind of poked him in the ribs the other day, he asked a soccer guy on the other day, can they kick with both feet? soccer is not going away. memo to ann coulter, the

american media talk show host for a variety of reasons, fifa sales are up, espn and fox are all in. >> can i ask you this question, can we execute seth blatter? >> i don't like him. >> the biggest issue with the sport from the american perspective isn't necessarily the scoring. it's not. baseball and hockey. it's fluid. there's a lot of movement. the bigger issue is we don't really trust -- >> it's the flopping. >> a little bit. we don't trust fifa. when you ask sports fans, it's like waste disposal in some cities. who is running it? who is making money on it? so that's the big issue. match fixing. >> i have no idea what you're talking about. yes, there is match fixing all over the place. fifa, they got to clean it up. ironically, it's the united states who some of them seem to loathe that is going to end up cleaning it up. the big sponsors who want to get

involved don't want to get involved in a corrupt sport. >> soccer is not going away. i understand that. how does it prosper? we're not a 1-0 country. >> there's connective tissue on why it will work. years ago when i was done, i came home i was down. now my dad played, more connectability. now i can play in more leagues. i can buy merchandise. it's everywhere. by the way, we have an explosion in this country. latino explosion in some cities. we now have -- the mls is profitable, ten teams are profitable. four need bigger stadiums, seattle, kansas city, portland. they're doing well. it's never going to be the nfl and it will probably never be baseball -- >> but it is getting bigger. all the kids are playing the video games.

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♪ ari, how great is the herd? >> we should just taublg sports. >> he's the sports guy. he's fantastic. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at new york city. as i say that, you know t.j. is going to move away from the shot of new york city. thank you, t.j. aren't you going on vacation again sometime soon? >> yes, next week. >> disney land again. >> he goes on these cruises and disney land more than anyone i knew. >> he needs them from living here. >> that's true. >> i work around the clock and i wear people down. they want me to gone vacation. i refuse. i love where i am too much.

nicolle wallace is here with us. former white house press secretary ari fleischer, sports communications ari fleischer. i think i need to be better friends with this guy to get tickets. editor and publisher of "the nation" katrina vanden heuvel. you checked your calendar because you have a "morning joe" calendar up in your kitchen and it's been a year. >> it's been a year? we've missed you. >> well, i'm back. great to have you back. >> thank you. >> we need your husband in here, too, to talk about russia. >> yes, a lot to talk about. >> also former white house communications director and now managing director of skd anita dunne. good to see you, too. >> great to see you, joe. how are you? >> i'm doing wonderful. >> i heard you say you don't want to go on vacation. it's obviously different from

congress or anybody in washington. you can tell you're in new york this morning. >> actually i am in new york. i think i go on vacation more than congress. i'm glad to be here now. i love being here. i want to bring all of you together here for us to break bread and talk about the meetings of some of the most depressing poll numbers ever. we've got new nbc news/"wall street journal" polls to run through. let's start with the president and we'll start there and go line by line by line. if you're at home and you're going, oh, this is going to skew against barack obama, joe is a republican, he's so biased. don't worry, it's even worse news for republicans. let's start with obama, job performance. 40% approval rating, 54% disapproval. this next full screen explains so much. obama foreign policy, 36%

approve, 60% disapprove. anita, let me start with you. you worked at the white house. obviously you have tons of friends inside the white house. we're a long way from hope and change. we're a long way from those greek columns, from all the promise of 2008. it's looking fairly grim inside the white house with these numbers. what gives? >> obviously it's a summer full of challenges for the white house and for the world internationally as well as continued challenges at home. i think what you've seen the president do is do as much as he can, and he will continue to do as much as he can despite a congress that, as you rightly pointed out, is far more unpopular than he is and frankly is refusing to do just about anything. they're giving the phrase "do nothing" a bad name. i think both internationally and hear at home, he's doing what he can do and internationally, i think if you look at what's going on, that the president is continuing his policy of

diplomacy and of leadership without committing troops everywhere. that is actually i think very much in line with what the american people are looking for. >> ari and nicolle, you worked for presidents with low numbers. what's going on? >> our pitcher is getting shelled and not able to throw anything over the plate. it's not the problem he's doing what he can. it's what he's not doing that's gotten him into so much trouble. >> what is he not doing? >> i think two fundamental things that. first is the failure to get the big budget deal with john boehner. it set off the tenor of nothing is going to happen in washington. >> whose fault was that? >> everything accumulates up. the president is always the one that has to lead and get things done. >> democrats would say republicans were out to make him fail from the very beginning. >> the second big issue where he didn't get something done is where he drew the red line in syria and failed to act.

that sent a bad signal particularly in the middle east where people didn't think america was going to get involved or back up our words with any deeds. if you look around the middle east, one of the reasons there's so much trouble in the polling numbers, there's a sense that the president isn't up to handling any of these challenges. >> katrina? >> i think there's a fundamental disconnect between the inside the beltway pundit polling class. you're not skewing bias, but history. first of all, these poll numbers are not as low. we've seen others over the last few years. americans want to engage with the world, but they don't want to listen to the armchair warriors. they don't want -- there wasn't a great gusto to go into syria. there isn't a gusto to go into ukraine or get too involved in the middle east. i think we need to step back and understand there's a wisdom among the american people in that front. i also think that -- >> for president obama, though -- i've said this before, it's the worst of both worlds. americans say in polls, don't get involved.

you don't get involved and bad stuff happens and you're to blame for that, too. >> i think of the president -- i have a lot of issues with the president on foreign policy, but i think he has made a decision that america cannot police the world without detracting from the resources it needs, for the real security of people at home and dealing with security challenges. >> we agree a lot on that front. i'm saying the great irony is a less involved america is a america that can't control what's going on out there, and he pays for doing what the american people tell them they want them to do. >> that goes to the big thing in the poll. america can't control the world's destiny anymore. of course we're a major power, but we're not, quote, the indispensable nation. i think a lot of americans may be having trouble dealing with that. the big number in the poll is americans believe the country is going in a wrong direction and losing faith in their political institutions. this isn't new. if you've been watching cnn,

"the sixties," let's go back to vietnam and the assassinations of king and bobby kennedy, look back at the summer of watergate. this country has experienced crises of confidence in their government. >> are we allowed to say -- thoegs cnn documentsry are awesome! like the music one -- i'm going to say it. i just gasped. i sat there -- i don't want a lot of tv, especially prime time tv. i'm on tv and flipping around. joey they've got brian wilson, i've never seen this. i'm going to get in trouble. those are awesome! >> some of us were too young to remember the '60s. >> i was glued at age 13. >> katrina brings up one, 70% of

americans say we're going in the wrong direction. 80% of americans say d.c. is going in the wrong direction. in the '60s there was the chaos in the street. in the '70s, an ugly decade, too, you still had a washington that works. it doesn't work anymore. >> why doesn't it work? it doesn't work because the republicans have refused to govern. >> get her, nicolle. >> i like her too much. >> they have made destruction their mode of governance. i was talking to carl bernstein and others last night. >> did carl bring up mccarthy? >> part of watergate had to do with the republican party who said good buy to nixon. barry goldwater walked into nixon's office and said it's not going to work anymore. you had a republican party that had moderate wings. this is a tired dispute. we know this now. what do we do with a country that is in gridlock? >> you have to also say that the problem is the center has been hollowed out over the left and the right. this is an important point to bring up. then i'll be quiet.

if you look at democrats elected since 2006, they're far more progressive now. the joe liebermans are gone. there's been a hollowing out. in the house there's been a hollowing out because of gerrymandering which is just horrific. in the senate there's a natural hollowing out. there aren't people in the middle that can bring the left and the right together. >> president bush had senator kennedy and john mccain to work with. he was able to govern. you may not have liked the things he did. he did govern and did have some partners, not a lot. but some partners in the democratic party when it came to education and immigration. there were people to talk to. i'd like to ask anita if she thinks the way president obama governed makes it easier or harder for hillary clinton to mount a campaign for the presidency. i think everything president obama has done, he's basically run a global experiment to see what would happen if america completely withdrew from the world stage and didn't exert any influence. he said he doesn't believe in

the embodiment of american exceptionism. he says he doesn't believe america has a role to play. i think while americans don't want to see troops on the ground, they do want to believe america can make a difference. but part of not approving of his job and foreign affairs isn't just that we don't like what's happening in the world. we don't like that president obama acts like there's nothing america can do. >> so, anita, you always hear -- the generals are always fighting the last war. has there been an overcorrection? if there has been, i think a lot of americans would say it's understandable, after ten years of war, after ten years of occupation, an overcorrection may be in place here. >> i'm a little surprised to hear nicolle mouthing the republican talking points. >> i love when people say that. thank you. >> i was going to say nicolle

i'm going to help you with your base. >> please accuse her again of being a republican. >> we'll say it one more time and you can put it in your resume. here is the thing which is, if you look at this, this idea that somehow this administration and the president are disengaged from the world is simply ludicrous. this morning, joe, we have leaders from over 50 nations in africa in time for a historic summit. by the way, that is a very important continent for the future. these are important relations for the united states in the future. secretary kerry who has successfully helped afghanistan negotiate a recount in their presidential election. we know a little about recounts here. no always that easy to do. you have diplomacy happening everywhere right now. the idea that somehow this president has disengaged from the world is so far -- nicolle,

let me finish. i want to go back to the republicans in congress. i was working on the hill in the bush administration, a big part of that time working with tom daschle, the democratic leader. the reality is the democrats worked with the bush administration. the republicans from day one made a decision that they weren't going to work with president obama, and i have to tell you it's a very different situation. i've been on both ends of pennsylvania avenue there. >> anita, let's move on to congress, a perfect segue. nbc news/"wall street journal," they sur vaifd americans, americans came back when asked what they think about congress and their response was congress sucks. congress's job performance 14% -- putin almost got that high a number in this poll. 79% disapprove. ari, i have to ask you about this, there is my concern, it's your concern. a lot of republicans' concerns.

party approval, gop, only 19%. 54% unfavorable. the dems sitting at 31%, almost double. how many times do we have to say this? republicans in the house have to do something. it's not enough to just pass bills that you know harry reid is going to kill. by the way, i blame harry reid as much as i blame the republicans. guess what? harry reid is not the party in opposition, the republicans are. we haven't made our case on why republicans should take control. you worked in the house when i was there. what do they need to do? what does john boehner need to do to break through with a positive message instead of, we're going to investigate benghazi, we're going to investigate the irs, investigate, investigate, investigate. we're going to sue. and yes, investigate them all, but you've got to have policies that excite americans, too. >> i spent about 12 years in the house and almost six years in the senate. two points, one, the 2014

election is going to be just like 2006. it's a rejection election. 2006 was a rejection of george w. bush and his policies in iraq. 2014 is setting up the same way against president obama. so you don't have to as republicans politically speaking do much between now and the election other than win the election on the basis of anti-obama, but it's the day after. it could be a false narcotic for republicans. you could take the senate, probably gain a few in the house. it's the day after. republicans have to turn the corner. i'm looking the see who the presidential contenders will be and whether they can speak as a more inclusive fashion. we need to pass comprehensive immigration reform and republicans should do it early in 2015. >> let's say republicans win the senate. when we won in '94, we can say these are the ten things we promised to do. dam it, we're going to fight and we're going to do it. we got 70% of it done. the day after john boehner gets re-elected, the day that mitch

mcconnell is speaker of the house if he wins, what do they say they stand for? >> like i just said, the first thing is comprehensive immigration reform, keystone open -- they might. >> everything is about might when you get to the congress. nobody can ever say what they're going to do. >> let me put it in a human context. what we've witnessed is a republican party unwilling to pass long-term unemployment insurance. you have people in this country who look to congress, look to their representatives, look to government to assist when people are down and out to provide jobs that in this country today, people work full-time and still live in poverty is a scandal. i don't think that is a matter of left or right. i think it's a matter of right and wrong. i think this is something -- obama with his poll ratings not great, he has a three-to-one

advantage over congress which has refused to govern on behalf of people in this country. >> don't mean to interrupt you, katrina, only to make your point. guys, do we have the number of americans who support raising the minimum wage? here is some fascinating numbers. we're taking this out of the partisan context. nicolle, you look at things americans support the most? guess what? they're bipartisan. democrats will be very excited that the overwhelming majority of americans want the minimum wage raised. republicans will be very excited that the majority of americans want corporate tax rate cut. >> tax reform in general. >> but specifically they want corporate tax rates cut. democrats will be thrilled that the majority of americans want the top 1% to be taxed higher. >> 60% of americans want comprehensive immigration reform. >> 60% minimum wage and the overwhelming number of americans

are like me, they want us to invest in our infrastructure. by the way, any republican on cap hole hill that thinks you can run against bob byrd and his off-ramp to nowhere in west virginia, you're in the wrong decade. i've given 400, 500 speeches on college campuses, et cetera, et cetera. i've never heard one person say you're a communist, you needless investment in our infrastructure. >> how about our airports? >> our airports are crumbling, our bridges are crumbling. >> nicolle said something interesting about senator kennedy and senator mccain. you see eruption ofs what i call trance partisan coalitions. just the past week, sherrod brown and david vitter worked on banks too big to fail. >> two weeks before that on the va. >> and on the issue of how many

people in this country are disenfranchised because of drug arrests. >> by the way, i want to talk to the two republicans on the set here. that's me politely telling you to hold on one second. republicans have such a great opportunity to run against the big government and to run against big business. most americans want the banks broken up. most americans -- republicans want the banks broken up. republicans can't be seen as captive to wall street, and they're running against a woman, if she gets the nomination, that's captive to wall street. she and bill clinton are wall street. they are so intertwined. why can't we have candidates say break up the banks, don't give wall street advantages? why can't we punish corporations that take their offices overseas to avoid our taxes? they live here, they get the

benefits of being here. if you want to get denmark's tax rate, then you and your family have to move to denmark because you're not allowed to live here. if you live here, we're going to tax you. >> joe, i think you're seeing a lot of that, when you look at the republican desire to break up a bank that provides huge subsidies to major corporations so they can do business abroad. republicans are trying to do that. i think the fascinating dynamic that's going to change for our party, if hillary is the nominee, it's not going to be as much as a left-right fight as a future-past fight. republicans have the ability to paint hillary as the candidate of the past. >> i'll go back to katrina. we'll keep everybody here and anita, also. if i'm a progressive, i can't be excited about hillary. she's intertwined with wall street. are you excited about the prospect of hillary clinton being the democratic nominee? >> no. i don't get excited about

candidates. >> good for you. >> i'm excited about what i see as the energy right now in a part of the democratic party which is this progressive populist energy which isn't just elizabeth warren. i think it's that bill that pushes senator clinton, former secretary of state. >> to the left. >> not to the left, but to really listen to those. i don't want to make it partisan or petty. it's not about hillary clinton. it's about the future of this country and what i believe -- we will disagree -- what i believe is needed. people believe this country is moving in the wrong direction. they don't see people -- there is a recovery in this country, and i think a president should be marked on the subsive accomplishments -- >> we've got to go to break. i want to ask anita, also, there is a recovery out there. i want to ask anita why that's not showing up in the polls. anita, ari, katrina stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe,"

the fall of richard nixon and the rise of ronald reagan. the author of "the invisible bridge" joins us later in the hour. plus ebola patients back in the united states, but the virus continues to spread across west africa. will it spread here as well? first, a 72-hour cease-fire appears to be holding, thank god, but for how long. we'll discuss how a long-term bill between israel and hamas can be brokered. that's coming up next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's never been easier to find a dentist. watch. dentist. at 1-800-dentist, we've helped over 8 million people find that right dentist. we can do the same for you. so don't put it off. call 1-800-dentist.

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♪ an neat tax let's finish up business from the last segment. let me ask you, you look at all the economic numbers, it looks like there's a recovery. the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. we all have to figure out how to stop that. the middle class slowly making gains over the past year or so. why isn't that reflected in the polls? >> i think that the deposition of the recession and the fact that so many people are still feeling the effects of it comes through very clearly in the

poll. we just had our sixth month of job creation over 200,000, the most -- the lowest number of new unemployment claims since 2007. it is slow, though, and always been a very slow process. the poll shows for the first time since i think -- since the recession, that more people think that we're not in a recession than we are in one. let's be clear. for people the economy is personal. in washington they talk about it as policy. i think katrina talked about the disconnect. that's one of the biggest disconnects. i also want to go quickly to something ari said about a wave election. there's no signs this is a wave election out there. in 2006, the democratic party was an alternative to the republican party. that's how waves develop. 2008, a wave election, 2010 obviously a gigantic wave election. now you have a republican party that is the alternative to obama that has a 14% approval rating in terms of its congressional

leadership and policies. so i think it's a very different dynamic and it means a lot of these senate races in particular will be fought out on a state-by-state basis. >> i think you're absolutely right. i think tom cotton is ten points ahead. that's going to be a battle. luis nan is always a battle. we don't know what's going to happen in alaska. i think it's going to be a fascinating election. anita, thank you for being with us. we appreciate it and hope you'll come back soon. >> thank you for having me, joe. >> by the way, nicolle -- >> tell nicolle i said surprised for a reason. great to see you guys. >> great to see you, too. from domestic politics to israel, the 72-hour cease-fire between israel and hamas is now in its second day and appears to be holding. let's hold our breath there. people are out in the streets and the shops have reopened.

but there were early concerns when hamas fired rockets into israel five minutes before the cease-fire took effect. negotiations for a long-term truce are currently under way in cairo. with us from tel aviv, senior correspondent and member of the editorial board, ari, the author of "my promised land." ari, we love having you on the show. thank you for being back with us. >> thank you for having me. >> we got into it on the set again yesterday with donny deutsch. it seems to me the great tragedy, for me looking at this from my safe cloistered view from the united states, the past month has seemed to strengthen hamas which i think is in nobody's best interest. do we, though, have a chance with hamas being forced to deal with egypt? do we have a chance for palestinian moderates to finally have their say and have a chance

to broker a reasonable deal? >> i think we actually do. when you look at the last months you realize that july in this country was the cruellest of months. we've seen dark forces erupting and a real tragedy evolving. now the challenge is to bring about a much better august. the terrorists, the warriors, the generals that head the world, now it's time for the diplomats to be reasonable and wise and lead the way forward. let me tell you where i think things are, what we've learned in this terrible month is two things. one, the gaza suffering which is unbearable. the second, israeli vulnerability which is unbearable as well. we have to deal with both simultaneously. the only way to do it is in a sense to lift some of the economic siege on gaza, but tie

the military siege of gaza. in the larger term i would say it's time for a marshall plan that will really rebuild gaza. power stations, hospitals, schools and give real hope for the people of gaza while fighting the fanatical extremist hamas and while disarming it. so only a double track policy which will give hope to the people of gaza, but will be very tough with hamas and will bring about a demilitarization of gaza, will give us hope. i think there's a chance for it. >> i'm sorry. i was just going to say, this time for some reason, appears to be different. we heard yesterday there weren't anti u.s. slogans out in the streets of gaza. you had some people in gaza blaming israel, blaming egypt but also blaming hamas.

it appears that a lot of palestinians are ready to move away from this zero sum game. either they win or we lose. the question is, do you believe -- you've written a lot about this, do you believe that benjamin netanyahu faced with this opening to actually empower moderates in palestine that will work towards a two-state solution, does he have the political courage to take that opening? >> i think there is a certain clans -- i'm not very optimistic, but i think there is a chance. let me tell you what this depends on. as we've seen, there are no saints in the middle east. yet i do believe there are good guys and bad guys. the good guys are the ones who love america and want stability. the bad guys are the ones who hate america and want instability. the good news is there is a potential alliance between the

good guys which is egypt, the moderate palestinians, israel, with the support of saudi arabia, the gulf countries and jordan. if we will work out a concept that brings together these moderate forces, none of them perfect, definitely some of our arab neighbors, i do not admire their democratic values and the way they treat their citizens and yet they are relatively moderate and want stability and they are with america, if america will lead a real coalition of moderate israelis, mad rat palestinians and sunni arabs, i think we can create a context in which hamas will be isolated. radicals of the region will be isolated and then the dark forces, namely iran, the islamic brotherhood, i.s.i.s., hamas, al qaeda, islamic jihad, all of these will retreat. the result right now has some promise in it, but the solution, as i told you last week is only a political one.

if we see assertive diplomacy, creative diplomacies, deals with the middle east as it is, i think there's reason for cautious hope. >> ari fleischer, there is reason for cautious hope because you look, and this is the first time this has happened. you do have uae, the gulf states, saudi arabia, jordan. you even have the palestinian authority. you, of course, have egypt who is playing a key role in this, you a lot of arab states that are also turning on hamas. 80% of the gaz sans before this attack began were turning against hamas. there is an opening if netanyahu and the moderate palestinians take it. >> i think you just put your finger on the changing winds of the middle east. ari, this is ari. i've always wanted to say "ari, this is ari." have you ever seen a potential realignment like this before in the middle east, especially

saudi arabia which has worked behind the scenes with israel over the past many years, vis-a-vis iran. have you ever seen a potential realignment where arabs are willing to work with israel against what is really radical islam in the form of hamas? >> i think there is a great potential. what we've seen -- look, in the middle east, nothing is like what meets the eye. if you really want to understand the region, you have to understand everything is multilayered here. what you actually have seen in the last weekend is egypt, israel and the moderate palestinians working together to try to stop hamas, and it worked. this is what brought about the cease-fire. if we enlarge this concept, i look at it from america's point of view. america on the one hand for very good reason is sick and tired of the middle east, for very good reasons. on the other hand, there is no way to run from the middle east. if you run from the middle east, the middle east chases you.

we've seen that in 9/11. the only sensible policy i see is for america to lead the alliance of the moderates that will bring some sort of stability to a deeply unstable region. i think if we see that, it will be good for the moderate palestinians for the people of gaza who will be different from hamas and gradually will move away from hamas. it will be better for all the moderates, for israelis, and it will serve america's interest best because it will give her the leadership it needs. as i told you, i think america is god's gift to humanity. america saved us all in the 20th century, and i wish america would lead us all in the 21st century. in order to do that, there is a potential of american leadership creating this alliance of moderates and giving some sort of reasonable modest hope to this trouble, violent region. >> ari, thank you so much. we love having you.

we hope you'll come back very soon. katrina, a great opening. july was such a horrid month, such a depressing month. as ari said, you do have arab states -- moderate arab states that used to say something behind the scenes and then say something completely different in their state-sponsored broadcast bashing america, bashing israel. is there a chance for moderate palestinians and israelis to come together with a two-state solution? >> ari said something important at the top of his interview which is, we've seen the generals and the warriors, the military men and people. now it's time for diplomacy. but too often that diplomacy has been is undered, broken, by steps taken by israel, not in its own security. hamas, yes, on both sides war crimes have been committed.

but israel is a very powerful state. america -- is it $3 billion a year in military aid and others? >> at the same time -- >> he works --. i want to say this country deserves a broader debate about israel. there's a richer debate inside israel about that. >> we're having that debate here. >> the media has not provided as much -- a little more of an opening this time around. >> but your debate here sounds like a one-sided debate. we have the ambassador to the united nations -- >> there's -- >> let me talk. let me talk. for the plo. katrina, you have to admit, you talk about israel. hamas fired 3,000 rockets into israel into civilian neighborhoods. you and i know if mexico fired one rocket across the rio grande, we would be in mexico

city nightfall and there would be people executed and the united -- >> israel must be secure, but have you seen gaza -- >> katrina -- katrina, i agree with you. but you're talking about an asymmetry in a debate, and i'm telling you that we're trying to provide symmetry. but you can't just come here and say, well, gee, it's israel that always -- if you say to me -- >> the right wing in israel i feel has worked against the best security of israel. there's a great documentary called "the gate keepers" with five former leaders of the masad who worry -- >> katrina. >> -- undermined israel's security. >> katrina, the only thing anything is ace symmetrical is israel has been forced to play defense. if they weren't unable to shoot down those rockets, the death toll would be more than what has

happened in gaza. >> ari, gaza has been ravaged. who is going to rebuild gaza? that is the international community's mandated mission. >> we've got to go to break. i have scars on my back for being down the middle on this. i am pro israeli. the reason i'm doing it is because i'm hearing my republican friends saying it and my conservative friends saying, my liberal friends saying it, people who don't give a damn about politics seeing what's happening in gaza, they've said enough. we support israel. we want israel to be safe. but enough with the gaza suffering. i think that's exactly what ari said. he talked about a marshall plan. i support a marshall plan for the people of gaza, the oppressed people of gaza, oppressed by history and the terrible situation they're in. but i lay the blame of that oppression at hamas' feet right now. we have an opportunity to

isolate hamas and give them hope. i think that's a symmetrical debate. >> we need a political solution, not a military one. >> i agree with you 1,000%, and i think there is an opening and i'm hopeful hamas is being isolated. that's a great idea. we're going to be talking, speaking of symmetry, to the plo ambassador to the united nations coming up next hour. i know you'll stick around and wake up your children to see that with us. coming up next, boy, a book that has sparked debate. called "the invisible bridge" about ronald reagan, charges of plagiarism flying around back and forth, but by one of the best conservative historians over the past decade who happens to be a liberal. we'll be right back. vo: this i. the summer of this. the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. where memories will be forged into the sand.

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conservatives, even pat buchanan told me, joe, you have to read "nixon land," it's a great book. it is a great book. his book on goldwater was absolutely amazing. a lot of conservatives talking about rick pearlstein who has written extraordinary books. his latest is controversial "the invisible bridge." we'll be talking to rick about that. and "ronald reagan: the rise and fall of ronald reagan" when we return.

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♪ it's amazing stuff. with us historian rick pearlstein, the author of "the invisible bridge." also with us in washington, professor of history at rice university, douglas brinkley, co-ed tore of the new book "the nixon tapes." rick, first of all, huge fan of your first two books, "nixon land and the invisible bridge." pat buchanan, bill kristol. if you want to understand american conservatism, it's a great place to start. this book is controversial. craig shirley, a good friend of moin and of this show, there have been charges about plagiarism, i guess the times talked about it. so there's passages that look like they're lifted directly

from some of craig's reagan books. what do you say? >> that's nonsense. we both used the word fess tune. i'm calling it fess tune gates. what kind of plajist links source notes to the pages he's supposedly plagiarizing. >> a lot of the passages are the same. >> they're not the same. >> you're saying that -- >> put up the second passage. he thinks i got that from him. but actually i got it from an african-american paper, "the atlanta world" from 1976. and the thing that i write is completely richer. it's -- the second passage i think that your producer showed me was the one in which reagan was shown on camera laughing at what was going on at the convention -- >> reagan dissolved into laugher. >> what that doesn't show is

then in my book i say he dissolved into laughter and then he saw himself on the screen dissolving into laughter and stopped laughing when he realized it looked bad on tv. that's from my original research. craig's thing -- i thought i was friends with him. people should read his book. anyone who is interested in ronald reagan should read his book because it's a good book. he wants my pumped, shredded. it want his read. he's also a public relations professional. his clients are people like ann coulter. the first thing they did was send out a letter to their role decks saying people could join their offensive, that's the word, and rick is trying to put a new spin on reagan and he said we can suggest tweets that you can use. so it really strikes me that this is an ideologically motivated thing. >> we'll get craig on at some

point. maybe both of you on at some point. >> i would love to. >> i would really love to talk about this book. not to stay negative. like i said, i could not be -- >> larry king tweeted it was controversial and that's why he was reading it. >> again, your first two weeks i mentioned were extraordinary books. i thought you took a more negative tone toward reagan in this book. is that a fair assessment? >> i just kind of report what i see. >> what do you see? >> well, one thing i see, i write about this in the pref foss. it's very important to understand that opinions about reagan have always been divided. they've been divided since he was in high school. i tell a story about how there was a cartoon in his high school yearbook making fun of him. some guy says, i'm drowning, and

reagan goes out and saves him. the guy says, no, don't save me, i'm trying to commit suicide. reagan says you'll have to postpone that. i'm trying to win a medal. people saw him as this phony ever since then. but other people saw him as a hero that they wanted to i'm late. in the preface i quote a letter from a woman who writes him who said you need to save the country just like you saved someone when you were a lifeguard. by the same token, i had a friend who couldn't bring herself to read the manuscript because she was still so mad at ronald reagan. the bottom line s i'm trying to bring back the idea -- the fact that ronald reagan is a controversial figure that has always divided america. >> it seems you're more sympathetic to richard nixon more than ronald reagan. >> people have told me they came

away from the book more sympathetic to reagan. i don't know. i didn't go in with that agenda. it seems like reagan books are defensive voided in two. they either treat him as providential, put on earth to defeat the evil empire. >> i've written a few of those. >> let's bring in doug brinkley. it's fascinating. people are still trying to get their arms around this man. we talked about what churchill would have said, he's still a mystery wrapped in a middle. >> there are parts of ronald reagan that i didn't know. >> absolutely. he's become a beloved figure. you have reagan national and all the rest. his presidential library is the most visited. the big reason everybody talks about reagan and generates

such interest is because we may be living in the age of ronald reagan still. by that i mean the two big political figures of the 20th century from pure politics was franklin roosevelt and ronald reagan. fdr told america that the federal government is there to help you. it was there to plant trees with the shelter belt in the depression and all of those -- you know, it's here to feed the poor during the new deal. it was here to do social security. and then the government won world war ii, the atomic bomb on the manhattan project, federal government, harry truman continued creating government. the nsc, the pentagon, the joint chiefs of staff, the cia. dwight eisenhower, interstate highway system, biggest public works in history. kennedy did the moon. all this federal government. even nixon creates the epa, jimmy carter fema and then reagan. the revolution comes in '81 and it's a roll back that reagan is talking about. rolling back the great society

and some of the new deal programs and that's where we are right now. >> rick. >> yeah, but he likes certain parts of government. he certainly liked the cia. he was on the rockefeller commission that investigated the cia and he was livid that they were taking on this part of the national security state that truman had started. so -- and of course when he was president he was quite pragmatic. he didn't roll back government like a lot of you guys had hoped. in fact conservatives all through his presidency had said reagan had sold out reaganism. >> bill buckley had to go to california in 1967 to defend ronald reagan against conservatives who said he was a sellout. >> what i'm wondering listening to this is part of the root of the disagreement that other conservatives have with you and this book is that they are into mythdom. let's maintain mythdom about ronald reagan. it's far too early for him to be a myth. >> for the record, it's far to

early to say conservatives have turned against this book. i'm just saying i'm a huge fan of your first two books. i just thought you gave reagan tougher treatment than you gave goldwashington goldwater or nixon. i'm reading the whole thing and conservatives should as well. >> let the readers judge for themselves, i guess. loo look, if this guy is the most important man to ever walk the planet, shouldn't we be studying him, warts and all? look, people have always been underestimating ronald reagan. richard nixon underestimated ronald reagan and william f. buckley said he couldn't possibly imagine this guy as president. but there's this great nixon tape in 1971, you know. nixon and kissinger are sitting around. i think nixon or kissinger says can you imagine ronald reagan sitting in this chair. and kissinger is like no way, he's going to start a nuclear war. that was 1971.

you can get it on youtube. two years later because he's such a rising political figure, they bring him in on the consultations and say we have a problem. egypt is exaggerating the number of israeli planes that they're shooting down. reagan says that's no problem. just announce that we're going to on a one for one basis replace every israeli plane that egypt says it shoots down and kissinger was like astonished at this guy's intelligence and he said i wish i had a guy like that on my staff. so i just brought that story into the public record. >> all right, very good. rick, thank you so much for being with us. >> congrats on the book. >> this discussion will continue and we'll see if we can get craig on and you guys can break bread together. >> duke it out. >> exactly, duke it out. >> the book is "the invisible bridge." rick, thanks again. doug brinkley, thank you as well. coming up next, we're breaking on the latest nbc news/wall street journal polls. they are ugly for both sides.

chuck todd will be here but there's a ray of hope in the poll and chuck will tell us what it is. i have absolutely no clue. plus pretender or contender. one way or another rand paul is making an impression in iowa, and the global market is reeling. did you see this? they were reeling yesterday as russian troops assemble on the border of eastern ukraine. is this the first step before a larger act of aggression? is war coming in russia? "morning joe" will be right back.

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israeli troops today finally pulled out of gaza. >> was this a celebration of a victory or just relief at their return? >> uncertainty too whether hamas forces ensure no more rockets are fired into israel. >> we have to talk about demilitaryizing israel. >> nancy writebol has arrived safely. >> afghanistan is still a war zone. >> the pentagon confirming moments ago that an american general was killed. >> major general harold green, the deputy commander of the security transition in afghanistan -- >> he wasn't there -- he was help krt icf. >> we're going to see a lot more of this as our combat forces zero out. we're not going more and more

vulnerable not just to killed and wounded but to abductions. >> rand paul is in iowa where he is running and sometimes ducking. >> if you have a question, i'm happy to answer it. >> i get paid a lot to be wrong. i'm sure i'll be proven wrong here. he's a fascinating guy, he's a fascinating candidate and i think he has absolutely no chance to actually be elected president of the united states. >> you're talking about real hard choices. which would you rather fight, one horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses? >> we'd have peace peace here, there a peace, everywhere a peace. >> welcome back to "morning joe." so great to have you guys with us. man, the first two hours of flown. this hour, don't blink because it's -- i mean we have so much stuff to fill, and you're here with some really happy news, chuck todd. >> america needs prozac. >> no, no, you're going to tell us these poll numbers are like prozac for america.

>> absolutely right. >> chuck todd is here, he's got some polls. also we've got managing editor of the news website, bobby ghosh, sara eisen and op-ed columnist dana milbank is here to cheer us up because dana always cheers everybody up. >> he writes only about the happiest things in washington. >> he's polly annish, i beneficiary he had would be a bit more biting at times. >> the economy is better. >> and see that's the thing, okay. the economy is -- >> no. >> hold on. the economy is better, sara, right? >> right. >> but nobody is noticing that it's better. >> well, no, they do notice. that was what was interesting about our poll. they know the economy is better. it's just not better for them. >> why are they so depressed? >> it's a number of things. first of all, they're not recovered from the recession. yes, financially they have recovered, but there are still one in three americans that are either supporting a child over

the age of 21 or a parent over the age of 65. the great recession made that. so you have these folks sitting there, they're digging out and sitting there going i'm still dealing with the recession. yes, my income, by the way, flat, but i have a job and all these things, so i'm still dealing with it even though you keep telling me the economy is better. >> so, sara, like 70% of americans, i'm a politician so i round up or down. 70% of americans think we're going in the wrong direction. 80% of americans think washington is going in the wrong direction. talk to those 70% of americans and tell them why the economy is getting better, why things are improving. >> well, we saw a 4% growth number last week for the second number. that is a big deal. but you sort of do have this two-speed recovery going on between income. low income, middle income hasn't seen a recovery and wages is the story of why most americans aren't feeling it. adjusted for inflation, they haven't gone anywhere during

this entire jobs recovery. the good news is, though, job openings are at the highest level in multi years. the good news is we've seen several months now a stretch of 200,000 plus jobs created in this country. >> easier to get a job now. >> employment rate going up because more people are actually looking. so easier to get a job. we need to see those wajges stat to go up. >> let's look at those numbers again. you would have thought yesterday people were jumping out of their windows. oh, my gosh, the stock market crashed. we're almost at 16,500. the numbers have just exploded and people don't feel it on main street at all. >> only half of the population owns stocks. they have been burned by the financial crisis. unless you have it in your mutual fund and retirement portfolios, you're not feeling a recovery in the stock market. >> look at these numbers from the poll. 64% of americans are not satisfied with the state of the economy, 35% are and that 1% not

sure. >> but you just said the stock market is rewarding companies for streamlining, for hoarding cash, for cutting people. the stock market does not reward companies for investing, for being entrepreneurial, for creating new jobs. so i think that that's why this is even worse on how people feel. >> the president's job approval, 40%. born policy just bleak. 36% approve, 60% disapprove. dana milbank, my god, here we are 2014, coming up on a midterm election. this is so lined up for the republicans, they are going to sweep through there. it's going to be a prairie fire sweeping across america. but wait, you look at congress' job approval rating and the

american people say they suck. it's 14% approve of congress' job performance rating. here's the party approval, dana. the gop 19%. only 19% have a favorable impression. 54% unfavorable. democrats, i was about to say all the way up at 31%. my parents were glad when i get 31s on my math tests but nobody else is. so, dana, washington, d.c., man, if i'm an incumbent, i'm thinking this year going into the election that i actually -- there is a chance that i could get challenged. it's bad news for d.c. >> it is bad news overall for d.c., but let me add some cheer and light to this. >> that's why you're here. >> that's why i'm here, because i'm always -- the glass is always half full for me. i don't think these numbers are that bad for president obama given how awful things are overall. and it's not just the economy that's bad. americans are depressed.

76% in this poll don't think their children are going to have a better life than they have had. so far they're right if we're talking about the millennials. 60% think the nation is in decline. when you've got those kinds of numbers, more than 70% on the wrong track, for the president to be where he is, is quite extraordinary. and the pollsters are saying this does not indicate the sort of wave elections, so people are sort of universal in their discussion. >> so, dana, in the past you'd look at right track, wrong track. you'd look at the president's approval ratings and you'd be able to predict for the most part other than 1998 what would happen in off-year elections. why is that not the case this year? >> because of the disgust with washington, 70% is universal. it's also because there's only so many ways voters can register their disgust because very few people are actually vulnerable when you look at the house in particular. and then, you know, you look at the senate. like last night's primaries, you

don't see a lot of anti-incumbent antagonism out there in the voters. they're depressed, they're disgusted with washington. they don't know particularly what to do about it. >> and, dana, of course every republican in washington, d.c. is going to be holding their breath and waiting for your answer on this because they know they can't wait to hear the answer to this. what is wrong with the republican party? >> oh, they'll be fine, joe, don't worry about it. >> no, i don't know that they will. i mean the question we've been asking all morning is what do they stand for? i know people hate to talk about like when i ran for congress. i'm sorry, i could talk about when i was a high school football coach. it wouldn't be as applicable. when i ran, everywhere i went people are saying what are you going to do if you actually get elected. i say we're going to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, shove it through the house. if you were a republican in 2014 and people says what are you going to do other than

investigate, investigate, and i'm not talking the investigations, but what are you going to do other than investigate, seriously, what is the answer a republican can give? >> i mean i would say the campaign slogan boiled down for november is not that guy. so we are not president obama, we are not the democrats, and they figure -- and they're probably right, that will be enough to get them across the finish line this time. that's of course not enough in the long term and even in 2016 term because you actually do have to have some sort of an alternative here. so i mean they're playing a very short-term game here which may work and may feel that validated their strategy going into this but i don't see where you go starting in december. >> you know, chuck, i always love to say that i'm living proof that in off-term elections you can beat something with nothing. in presidential elections you actually have to stand for something. i'm not so sure in 2014 that's the case anymore. tom cotton should be up by ten points in arkansas.

he's not. republicans should have closed out mary landrieu by now in louisiana. they have not. georgia, still up in the air. there are a lot of red states where democrats are still holding on. >> part of the issue is independents are totally throwing up their hands. you see interest in this election by independents cratering. one of the reasons our poll says this isn't a wave election. interest is lower now than '06 or '10 to wave elections. the voters don't have amnesia. they voted for change three of the last four elections and they didn't get it and they're mad. by the way, you want to know what the future of the republican party looks like and what happens when the whole thing blows up in your face? >> what's that? >> look at kansas. kansas is a mess right now. sam brownback, a conservative. >> sam is in trouble. >> he's in big trouble. he only got 62% in a primary. he didn't really have a real challenger. >> why is sam in trouble right now? >> there's a couple of things. one is he was very aggressive and basically trying to leave

the charge to purge his party of moderates. he put in a tax bill that was fiscally -- the moderate republicans argued it was fiscally irresponsible, it was too much that he didn't pay for it. he went very much with a very aggressive tax-cutting policy. "the wall street journal" loves it, but half the party inside of kansas doesn't. but this is a state. the republicans are in charge. this is full-on being in charge. >> you can't point your finger at anybody else. >> and you're seeing almost an implosion here, an ideological implosion taking place inside of kansas. obviously the book years ago "what's the matter with kansas" talked about why do rural folks in kansas vote against their economic self-interests. but there's a different way, if you want to understand how the national republican party and congressional republicans could see the whole thing collapse on them, go look at kansas. >> sara, one final question about the polls and then i want to talk about afghanistan with bobby and just unbelievable news that came out yesterday. so it's fascinating, we were

talking about this last hour. you look at what americans want. they want the banks broken up in this wall street journal poll, they want corporate tax rates cut, very conservative, right? but they also want minimum wage raised. which conservatives don't love. and you can -- there are all of these contradictions. but there is actually a consensus that is not left or not right on economics. they want the 1% to get taxed more. a lot of different things going on here. >> and that's a reflection of the sluggish growth and sluggish income growth. what the business community wants from washington right now, immigration reform, we know that, and that's sort of on both sides of the aisle. corporate tax reform, also going to be very tricky to pull off. the party that campaigns should campaign on those factors that will boost the economy and will boost normal americans' way of living and their incomes. you heard president obama talking to the economist magazine earlier this week, hostile with ceos and the business community saying that

they live in the hamptons and they should stop complaining. what the business community wants from the republican party is less regulation, dodd-frank financial regulation and obamacare and more proactive reforms. you talk about a reflection of cost cutting. they need to invest and have the confidence to hire. it starts with the ceos, say what you will about them and about businesses. if they get that confidence, that could go a long way to restoring incomes and helping the economy. >> the top ceos may not say it in front of a camera, but you talk about a lack of distrust in the president of the united states -- >> exactly. >> it is hostile. >> but the supposed party of business, this is a republican party that wants to dump the import/export bank, doesn't want to do immigration reform. the business community's agenda is not the republican -- the irony is obama is closer to what they want to get done -- >> i don't know about that. >> i know that, look, the epa thing is a different story, some

of these regulations. but let's talk about immigration reform and import/export, obama is their best ally. >> dana, it is something and the president can't seem to win for losing with wall street. and this has been -- this has been a bizarre relationship since 2009. he's done a lot of things. he didn't crack down on the big banks a way a lot of his own supporters want him to crack down. there are a lot of punitive measures that he could have taken. and the justice department could have taken against some of the malfeasance that occurred. he didn't do it, and yet he's still very unpopular on wall street. >> he hasn't been able to profit from that. chuck is right, there is a huge amount of antagonism. mo brooks from alabama who just yesterday or the day before was talking about the war on whites. he was making an argument against "the wall street journal" editorial page.

there's a huge divide there. if you look at the facts on the ground since then, they have little reason to be frustrated with him as opposed to what they're getting from congress but i think there's a long hangover effect there. >> if i were groucho marx, the duck would have come down because dana got in the war on whites phrase. congratulations, dana. you said the magic phrase. >> we gave people a bunch of lists on how to improve the economy. 78% picked this. increase fines and jail time for executives at financial institutions who broke the law would help. so you've got a public out there that's actually ticked off that nobody went to -- ceos are upset that, hey, you're not doing the corporate tax rate. the public is upset that a ceo isn't in jail. >> and that's what the president is responding to.

>> there's a disconnect between america and the east coast. >> a republican candidate that goes out and is anti-big business and anti-big government does big things. >> watch out for rand paul. >> they're just not out there. rand paul running away from some of the things he said. >> he does run away. >> just a couple of years ago. >> literally we saw him run away. >> he literally ran away from the dreamers and now he's running away from what he said about cutting off all aid to israel. this morning changing stories from domestic to international. the pentagon is investigating an attack that left a two-star army major general dead. the highest ranking american killed in iraq or afghanistan. the 55-year-old major general was harold green, the second highest ranking american serving in afghanistan. he was overseeing the transition efforts in handing over u.s. responsibilities to afghan troops. green and other coalition forces were at camp tuesday when an

afghan soldier opened fire, seriously injuring several others before being killed and returning fire. bobby, my god, you look at this poll and there is so much to talk about. we could talk about russia, a possible invasion, what it did to the markets yesterday. we could talk about what's happening in the middle east. we're going to with the ambassador to the united nations for the plo coming up, but of course this hasn't happened since, i think, '70 or '71 in vietnam. the situation in afghanistan is just a mess. you talk about americans looking around going what's going on. so many americans still want to know why we're spending $2 billion a week in a war that we just can't win. >> well, i think that drawdown that the president has promised couldn't come fast enough for many americans. it is the most senior military official killed since vietnam. since we are desperately trying to look for good news this morning, the number of green on blue killings has actually come down. the target was a big one this

time. >> 2012 was huge. >> nearly 50, last year nearly 15, this year this is only the fourth, i think, all year, which is a smaller number. that's very small consolation. the opportunities for green and blue violence will reduce so fewer american soldiers, knock on wood, will die. but what this tells us is there is still a gigantic mess we're leaving behind there. if the afghan military cannot stand up, and the indications are not good, if they cannot stand up, that quickly will very quickly devolve back again into this cess pit and it will pull its neighbors, pakistan again and it is once again the place from where terror will be exported around the world. >> it's unbelievable all the lives that have been lost, all the money that's been invested in iraq and in afghanistan. here we are 12 years later, 13 years later, we're still looking for that thomas jefferson

figure. guess what, he's not there. >> well, he's not. it's been three months since presidential elections and they still haven't figured out who the president is. the two candidates are still fighting. john kerry tried to mediate there and that still hasn't happened. they're still counting the votes all over again. there's no one who's behaving like a statesman. never mind thomas jefferson. no one is willing to behave like a statesman. everyone is behaving like a narrow tribal or ethnic leader. and that's the nature of the problem. >> we would settle for far less actually. >> the afghans would settle for far less. >> wouldn't political rivals in a country that cared about this, they'd be both serving in the government. wouldn't at this point -- >> that's what kerry tried to do. >> and that's what george washington did. he brought a bunch of rivals into that cabinet. you know, there actually is a model. >> i know, there is. chuck todd, thank you for being with us. dana, thank you for bringing your own special brand of sunshine to "morning joe." you have lit us up. thank you for coming, i hope

you'll come back soon. we loved having you. still ahead on "morning joe" drugs on the diamond. has baseball successfully moved on from the steroid era? plus, will the peace in gaza hold? we'll be discussing that with the ambassador of palestine to the u.n. but coming up next, is a tech bubble ready to burst? the co-founder of foursquare, dennis crowley, is here to explain what's next for silicon valley and his company. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. everybody's excited about the back to school

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i'll be back. ♪ if you leave me now, you'll take away the biggest part of me ♪ ♪ oooo, no, baby, please don't go ♪ ♪ ooo, girl, i just want you to stay ♪ >> hey, man, i'm getting car sick. >> that was one of pets.com's tv commercials. by the way, i went hard. i threw a lot of cash on pets.com to make up for my losses on eastern airlines. it didn't work out well for me. of course pets.com an ever lasting symbol of the internet bubble. did any of you know what eastern airlines is? >> i knew pets.com. >> the question is are we in the middle of another tech bubble. with us the founder of foursquare, dennis crowley. i found out you're not in silicon valley, you're in

silicon alley. what exactly is silicon alley when it's at home? >> i think silicon alley now is just all of the tech activity that's happening in new york. i've never found the one specific alley. >> you've been looking since '98. >> since i moved in '98 i thought it was one street and i think it's most of downtown manhattan at this point. >> you've got a pretty good streak, though. you've got some great tech startups. >> yeah, we're doing okay. foursquare hob going for five years strong and i had a company before this. >> so is there a tech bubble? are we worried about a tech bubble? >> i was watching the pets.com commercial. i haven't seen that in forever. back then, that was people trying to sell a little bit of everything on the internet. the people that are selling stuff on the internet have figured it out. i think what companies like four square are doing now is trying to reinvent the world through this lens of data analytics and how can we reinvent the world with data. i think it's an entirely

different game now than it was back then. >> sara, you look skeptical. >> i've been seeing these evaluations, they're eye-popping. you mentioned eastern airlines. does it make sense to you that uber, which is not a public company yet, is valued more than united airlines or whole foods? that's the valuation these types of companies are getting. >> you look at the potential of these companies. it's like is uber going to reinvent transportation logistics? are they going to be the broker by which people go and pick up their driverless cars. who knows what that future looks like but they're in a good spot to execute it. >> i was going to ask about the data analytics bring up. he who has the data wins, as we know with the nsa. so how are you trying to expand the footprint of what we've come to know foursquare to be and how you see it moving beyond that so that you stay futureproof. >> what we've been trying to do is build these amazing personalized local search ing n engines. why should all of us get the same search results if we're

looking for lunch or dinner in this neighborhood. we should learn from the way people experience new york city to give everyone different results. >> what if i don't want people to know where i am. >> it's not about people knowing where you are. its new foursquare is how can we take all this information about where people have been in the past and help you find spots perfect for you. >> like a yelp. >> but much smarter. with yelp all of us get the same results. but what foursquare is trying to do is you would get different results, you would get different results. >> thomas and i would get faur different results. >> if you're interested in creating a tech alibi, foursquare could be your end. >> i just learned that german factory orders fell off. >> way to bring that in. >> as dennis is pointing out -- >> you sound like a consumer that has used this as a tech alibi. >> no, not yet. but since we're thinking about it, i'm always thinking about things. >> of course you are. >> but joe is bringing up the contrast about the fact that he

doesn't want people to know where he is so why is foursquare a viable service for him to use? >> and you've got a new app, right? >> it's called social media. social. >> i never tell people where i am until i left three days ago. hey, look, it's beautiful in nantucket. >> one of the things we found out is not everyone wants to share their location all the time. so for the people that do want to do that, we launched a separate app for them and called it swarm. you can download it now. >> it's called swarm? >> swarm, yes. swarm is the one where you want to share that you're traveling to all these exotic places. >> i'm going to line that one out. >> the new foursquare app is all about learning about the things that you like and so we can drive you toward the places we think you'd love. >> let's say i want to find the best music spots in brooklyn and williamsburg. i go on the new four square app. >> yeah, either type in i'm looking for live music or scroll over to night life.

based upon where people are going in realtime and based upon what people have said about those places, we help you find the best things that fit your taste. >> so we're talking about jobs. we're talking about americans being unhappy. i get that you're trying to transform industry and you're trying to change the world. what about jobs? what's up when it got acquired by facebook had 55 employees. are you guys creating jobs? >> i think we're creating jobs. it's very difficult to find software engineers that are incredibly talented. >> can i ask you about the immigration crisis, the immigration debate. how important is it for you to be able to get immigrants that, say, graduate from m.i.t. and then they have to go back home? >> it's tricky because we hit -- we're only allotted a certain amount of visas every year and we hit that limit every year. there's always people we'd love to pull in but are above that limit. so it makes hiring talented

engineers even harder because we're up against those restrictions. >> how much of a difference would it make for you as far as global competitiveness if you didn't have those restrictions. >> i don't think it's just us. we would pick up a handful of engineers per year, which would be a huelp for us, but across te companies in new york and in the valley, i think it would make a big difference. >> all right, dennis, you've convinced me there is no tech bubble and i'm getting your new foursquare app. >> what's that watch? >> it's called anuka. >> so this for the camera. it's called a nuka watch. >> does it tell time? >> it does, yes. >> what else does it do? >> it tells the future. >> tells the future? >> in the future, four square is awesome. >> oh, that is so awesome. >> so, sara, before you leave, we always look at german factory orders to figure out what's going on. >> as you should. >> and you say german factory orders fell off a cliff and this

is important. >> because it is the russian factor. obviously the sanctions are starting to hit russia. europe and russia have a very close trade relationship. russia is the eighth biggest economy. >> thomas was just telling me this. >> this is not a small emerging markets economy, as thomas knows. >> so putin moves troops to the border of the ukraine, we feel it here yesterday on wall street. >> you saw it. just a headline, vulnerability, it's a fragile market out there. the geopolitical tensions especially in russia and ukraine are shaking confidence right now. >> dennis, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> appreciate you being here. check out more on our website on afternoon mojo to find out more about dennis, foursquare and the watch that he wears. coming up next, israel and hamas are taking the first steps toward a long-term truce but a deal won't be struck without conditions. we'll talk about the prospects for a more stable cease-fire with the palestinian ambassador to the united nations coming up next. ♪

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we're now in the second day of a 72-hour cease-fire between israel and hamas that for now still appears to be holding. with us now the ambassador for palestine to the united nations,

ambassador riyad mansour. >> thank you for having me. >> i was talking to an israeli journalist earlier and he talked about the horrors on both sides. he talked about the palestinian suffering. i mean saying things that you don't usually hear from israelis, that it's just -- that we may actually have an opening. is there an opening for peace out of this terrible tragic month of july? >> i hope so. it is not going to be easy, it's going to be very difficult. we have a delegation prese representing all the palestinians in cairo that has been there in a few days. i believe there will be an israeli delegation going to cairo today as well. i hope that we can begin the discussion in order to not allow for a 72-hour cease-fire but for a long cease-fire and to deal with the root causes of this situation. >> and hopefully lasting peace. >> yes. >> do you think the palestinian authority is going to have more

authority to negotiate with israel on a long-term peace deal since you have the saudis, the egyptians, uae and a lot of other states trying to bolster you and trying to push aside some of the more extreme elements of hamas? >> we succeeded in april of reaching an agreement to have a national consensus government. and that national consensus government represents everyone, including hamas. so for us in this national consensus government under the leadership of president mahmoud abbas, if we succeed by being empowered by everyone, including the international community, to be responsible for the transition of rebuilding gaza and having a long-lasting cease-fire and then to move into the political situation of negotiating the end of occupation and the independence

of the state of palestine so we can have two state solution living side by side in peace and security, then that would be the best thing not only for us, for israel and for the entire region. >> ambassador, you talked about the national consensus government that you agreed to in april. hamas was at that point at its historical weakest moment politically as well as militarily. what is your assessment of hamas' position now after a month of fighting? there are some who say that hamas in some ways is stronger, at least politically, and if that is so then the dynamic within the coalition government changes. is hamas a political force that now you have to reckon with? >> hamas is a significant political force among the palestinians. the israeli government waged this war for several reasons, including the reason that they wanted to destroy the national

consensus government, to keep us divided and, therefore, weaker so that they can make us in a weaker position in terms of negotiation. now the challenges for us is not to allow the israeli government succeed in the destruction of the national consensus government, but to allow the national consensus government to lead the negotiation in cairo, to succeed in the negotiation there, to show the palestinian people in the gaza strip that it is the government that was able to make a difference in their lives by lifting the siege, opening the borders, allowing our fishermen to fish deep in 12 miles or beyond in the mediterranean sea where they can get most of the food for the people in gaza in terms of fish. if we succeed in these challenges, and i believe that the gentleman that you referred to, he was saying you cannot

have success in dealing with the situation in gaza without lifting the siege against the people in gaza. he is absolutely correct. we need to show especially the young, 50% of the people in gaza are under 18. we have to give them hope. >> so with that, and i've made no secret of the fact that i'm a long-time supporter of israel, but with that i would love for the borders to be open, for there to be the possibility. the egyptian border and more movement and less of a siege mentality there, but how do we guarantee security for the israeli people so hamas doesn't use that opportunity to just rebuild its war machine that not only undercuts israel, but undercuts what you're trying to do? >> well, we have to build on things that succeeded in the past. >> right. >> hamas and israel reached a

cease-fire agreement in the year 2012 under the auspices of the egyptians. president abbas was not involved in that. now we have a national consensus government that represent everyone, including hamas. if we have that cease-fire and build on it and add new things to it, such as the possibility of putting in place an observer force or group of people to observe the cease-fire, for the israelis that that observer force will create a deterrent atmosphere so that nobody will be firing anything from gaza towards israel, for us in the gaza strip, it will create a deterrent element where the israelis will not be executing palestinians in gaza and attacking gaza as they wish. so this new additional element which we are dewait batbating -

>> and also so israeli people don't have to worry about rockets raining down on them from ha hoss. >> but also when you have 11,000 killed and injured in four weeks, 80% of them are civilians, large number of children, this is a tragedy. it's so huge that is impacting the entire population, entire nation of the palestinians, including half a million displaced. >> there's no doubt it has been -- july has been one of the most tragic months, and let us hope that peace comes out of it. thank you so much. >> thank you very much for having me. >> and we hope you'll come back. nicolle had five or six questions, we just don't have time. >> okay. coming up, how baseball explains america. the author of that new book explains our obsession with america's national pastime. we'll be right back. 

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with us now, the senior correspondent for mlb.com, hal bodley, he's the author of "how baseball explains america." one of the most important books written about baseball. that's a pretty damn good review by "the new york daily news." >> that's true. it's also such a thick and deep part of our culture, baseball. explain what you've been doing with your whole life, and it's all right here in this book right now. >> after covering baseball for 55, 56 years you have a lot of memories, a lot of tapes stored away, interviews you've done with a lot of people and that type of thing. i wanted to bring it altogether. i thought i could do a memoir. i talked to ted williams in his underwear. i flew on air force one with george h.w. bush. then i thought, hey, that doesn't really work too good. what about baseball and how essential it is to our society. every day. i challenge you, can you go an

hour without using a baseball term in your language. you probably can't but it's such an important part of our society. it's essential, the people who have a great passion for the game. they love the game and made it possible. i tried to tie all that in and it's been very, very rewarding for me. >> i think all of us on this set agree that baseball was such an integral part of our country and our country's culture. do you worry at all about the pace of the game and the fact that the demographics of baseball are increasingly people our age and you're not too far from our age and we're losing some younger baseball fans because of the pace of the game? >> no question, mike. the games, when they last over three hours, i covered a nine-inning game in tampa bay the other day that was four hours long, it was so awful. i think the velcro, the players are tightening their gloves after every swing of the bat, that type of the game. they do have to speed it up. i think it's a big concern that we haven't been able to bring

the youngsters into the game, the little boys. my dad took me to yankees stadium in 1950, the world series with the phillies. we sat behind the dugout. joe dimaggio came to the plate. he put his arm around me and said pay very, very close attention to this because this is something you're going to remember the rest of your life. do dads take their kids to the ballpark as much as they used to? i'm not sure they do. we have a contagious type of thing where kids get really involved. i think if the games were played more in the daylight and not so late at night, that would certainly help. >> so anthony bosh arrested yesterday. brings back the question of steroids, you have a chapter in the book about steroids. we all lived through the steroid era. we may or may not be over. i was a san francisco giants season ticket older. i watched barry bonds break all those records. context y

contextualize it. how do we look at that era and put it in proper context? >> i think our society struggles with it, obviously. i think that decade of the steroid era, it's very, very important we recognize it. if we ever use those record books, we have to have an asterisk in there. i think saying this is during the steroid era. for me personally i will never vote for any of these players that have tainted the game and been involved with steroids. so it's a very, very important thing. >> i was just going to say quick debate here, let's talk about something important. the greatest decade for baseball. i grew up in the 1970s. you had the oakland a's, hank aaron, willie mays was still playing, lou brock. it was an extraordinary decade. but you disagree with me. >> i do. i really do, joe. because i talked to tom brokaw, he wrote that great book "the greatest generation." and i said to you agree with me that the 1940s was the greasest

generation in baseball? the greatest decade in baseball. and he said positively. i'll tell you the reason why. joe dimaggio's 56-game hitting street, ted williams batting over .400. you had all of these good players going to war. above all that, jackie robinson in 1947 breaks the color barrier. that has to be the greatest. it was very, very important to our society and to baseball. >> you know, you talk about baseball, though. i really do mark so many moments of my life. 1975 obviously what happened in game six, but i will forever remember being in dalton, georgia, at my grandmom's house on april 8, 1974, when al downing pitched that pitch to hank aaron. i mean there are just -- these are the moments that mark our lives, right? >> really. it's how baseball explains america. you know, it's so important. and that moment when hank broke that record, that has to stand. and the fact that there was somebody that had peds that

helped go above that record -- the records are so sacred in baseball. >> it's still hank aaron. we shall return. it's "how baseball explains america." hal bodley, thank you so much for being here. >> always my pleasure. >> we'll be right back. where the reward was that what if tnew car smelledit card and the freedom of the open road? a card that gave you that "i'm 16 and just got my first car" feeling. presenting the buypower card from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com >> i'm alex trebek.

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♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ let's talk about what we learned today and i was just told we have one second. mike barnicle what did you learn? >> anything with colin cowherd is a huge day. >> thomas.

>> orioles. >> bobby. >> the ambassador to the united nations is a floridian. >> in a country where everyone is depressed and gloomy, this is the happiest place in america. >> you might turn back to barnicle for another thing about the sports guy. >> what, hal bodley? >> i have no idea what's going on here. chuck todd, we owe you about 30 seconds, we're sorry. stick around, here's chuck with all of the nbc news/wall street journal polls. you've got to watch it, it will change your life. see you tomorrow, bye. his first bakery in a small hawaiian town. making bread so good, that people bought two loaves one to take home, and one to eat on the way. so good, they grew from here. to here. to here. but to grow again, to the east coast they needed a new factory, but where? fortunately, they get financing from ge capital. we not only have teams dedicated to the food industry, we're also part of ge, a company that's built hundreds of factories.

so we could bring in experts to help king's hawaiian make sense of transportation routes, supply chains, labor pools, and zoning to help them make the right decision. and, i'd like to think, to make their founder proud. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know, can help you grow.

when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.