american journalist should be addressing africa. >> since the united states was hosting it, we should have shown more interest. but congresswoman, karen bass, ryan grim, joan walsh, thank you for your time. and we will discuss tomorrow night a lot of other irissues. but today i think we should all acknowledge history was made. thank you. "hardball" starts right now. >> test of strength, let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. president obama just finished a news conference after completing his summit with african leaders here in washington. the president touch had on many issues today from the war in gaza to republican charges that he's an imperial president to

his relationship with the congress. perhaps the most noteworthy moment came this evening in the exchange over immigration. mr. obama's frustration with congress's inaction. nbc news out who correspondent cri kristin walker. and let's start with jonathan karl of abc news. this is news. let's watch. >> do you believe you have the power to grant work permits to those who are here illegally as some have suggested. >> what i certainly recognize and what i would expect with immigration reform, and i've said this in past, is that we have a broken system. it's under resourced and we have to make choices in terms of how we allocate personnel. and resources. so if i'm going to, for example, send more immigration judges to the boreder to process some unaccompanied children that have arrived at the border, then

that's coming from some place else. and we're going to have to prioritize. my preference would be an actual conference on immigration law. we already have a bipartisan law that would solve a whole bunch of these problems. >> kristin welker, the question was, are you going to issue work permits. and say, who gets to stay here and work. and who doesn't. and his answer was, you know, i have to put a lot of people down boreder to deal with the young accompanied children. that doesn't leave a lot of opportunity for me ton do something. i will set the priorities in this country. answer to me was yes. i'm going to issue some kind of system whereby people get relief from deportation or whatever it is, the government of the united states is going to in effect give work permits to people in

this country illegally. what did you hear? >> that is what i heard. the president is leaning toward that. we know he has a number of options. he hasn't made a definitive decision yet. but allowing those to stay without criminal record, pertaining to those student who are here, who came here illegally, possibly expanding that to their parent. this is something that could impact millions of people who are here illegally to pick up on what the second point of what the president was saying. you talk about reallocating resources. that relates it that $3.7 billion that administration asked for from congress. they didn't get it. and so one thing that president is looking into is reallocating resources. possible within dhs to not only beef up security at the border but also more immigration judges, which is what he alluded to. >> thank you. it seems know that question was, are you going to issue work

permits. his answer was, well because congress didn't act on the young people, he have to shift resources down there. therefore it will leave me with the choices, as he called them hard choices, of how tho deal and using my priority in how to use the rest of the matter, which you just raised. his back handed way of saying, yes, i will start establishing immigration law in this country because congress won't do it. >> he basically said, you congress, deport these children, so yes, i will do that. in efrm change, i allow people here to stay in the country. that is a bait and switch there. >> how many hours does it take tonight kristen before we hear impeachment. congress says, we've been waiting for to you do it, sir, mr. president, we are waiting for you to establish policy. now, we will get to in a moment, the president was careful tonight to say, i'm delineated, restricted under what acan do in

the constitution. and as power of the purse strings. but then within the limit of purse strings i have the responsibility and opportunity to move the money the way i want to. if you tell me to move the money the way i want to, to make sure i move it expeditiously, then i won't do the other job. it sound cute, but i think he answered a tough question. this is a question of whether or not the president has the power of what they are usurping. let's listen. >> when you were running for president, you said, quote, the biggest problems we're facing right now have to do with george bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through congress at all. that's what i intend to reverse. has congress's inability to do

anything significant given you a green light to push the limits of executive power, even a duty to do so, or put another way, does it bother you more to be accused of being an imperial president pushing those limits or be accused of being a do-nothing president who couldn't get anything done because you faced dysfunctional congress? >> i think that i never have a green light. i'm bound by the constitution. my preference in all these ininstances, is to work with congress, because not only can congress do more, but it's going to be longer lasting. and when you look at for example, congressal inaction and in particular the inaction on the part of house republicans, when it comes to immigration reform, here is an area, as i said before, not only the american people want to see

action. not only is there 80% overlap between what republicans say they want and democrats say they want, we passed a bill that was bipartisan. what i can do is, you know, scour our authorities to try to make progress. and we'll make sure that every time we take one of these steps that we are working within the confines of my executive power. but i promise you the american people don't want me just standing around twiteling my thumbs and waiting for congress to get something done. >> it is an interesting question. i guess it was rhetorical. do you want to be known as the do-nothing president or president that exceeded his authority. in other words, gave himself a green light. but i guess the president was answering, what do you do when the traffic light is broken. do you good through the

intersection or not. he said he will would look for legal authority to do what he wants to do, he feels he should do, which is deal with the boarder with the young children down there. and also, use that opportunity as you shift resources to deal with that matter to deal with his executive authority. decide where you get relief. that seems to be the only way to term, maybe not a work permit but how about nobody will bother you if you're working here. your thoughts? >> i think that's right, chris. as you know, those who were advocates for unaccompanied minors here, are urging the president to do something big when it comes to immigration reform. imimmigration reforms are urging advocates to do something big. i'm told there are small ball actions and larger options. he knows that either way it is going to upset republicans. that there is going to be more talk about impeachment. i wouldn't be surprise fed he decides to go big on this.

>> we might hear about impeachment in the next few hours, if not, within the next hour. when it comes to immigration reform, though know it might pose more challenges for those facing tough reelection battle in the mid terms but they think it is a big win in 2016, chris. >> let's go to something the former chief of staff rob emmanuel said, let no crisis go unexploited. something to that extent. these young people on the border, everyone knows we have to address it. that means executive discretion. i'm also going to deal with that other problem. i will leave some people of the enforcement. he is talking about a big solution. when you talk about work permits, you talk about up to 5 million people, a huge -- this is an emancipation proclamation.

>> steve king has talked about that already. there will be talk with republicans because he will be willfully --- >> this leak, this thing -- you have report owned this. you have seen this leak slowly. >> the reason he asked about it is because it floated out there. it seems to me it is tan jiably close that might take this big step. >> i thought initially they would do a small step, expand slightly. >> they are talking about something much bigger. and obama is talking legacy. you saw him mention his successor and the other questions he wants it take a big move here. his view is congress won't do anything. >> let's if to style. as always i'm impressed by the presidentes a cool. i don't mean show business cool. his ability to the cool in the state department auditorium

today. dropping this bomb and the way deit, he never gives it away, is it he? what in his hand. >> i think you're right about that. he is particularly good in these formats. remember, he has been welcoming more questions from the press as of late. that's in part because we just got a new approval rating from him. an all-time low. i think the white house wants him to be out there, want him to be interacting not only with the press but of course more of these excursions outside of the white house shaking people's hand. visiting different communities across the u.s. i think a press conference like this, where he takes a number of questions be allows him to do that. he touched on ebowl why and putin. he said the russian economy has come to a halt, i believe is the exact word. when asked whether those sanctions were asking an impact. i think you're right, the president likes this type of format because it place into that aspect of his personality.

chris? >> i think it's in your faith. last thoughts. couple second. >> right now, hispanic voters not a big part of the terms. >> thank you, my colleagues from msnbc news. thank you for joining us. coming up, rand paul thinks he is change his positions. with 2016 in his sights, he sees many of his positions a tad inconvenient but never said the things we know he said. we got the tapes. plus, our nbc news wall street journal poll out today finding that 57% of americans say they are are upset enough to get out there and carry protest signs. now about this one? sue congress. and that family drama in with virginia. can bob mcdonnell beat the wrath by blaming his wife, maureen. finally, let me finish with the anger people have. with a government that makes things worse.

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a michbled bag for the tea party in last night's contest in kansas a income bnt republican. robert won by just 7 points, a smaller margin of victory. tea party targeting graham and mcdonnel. amash beating a challenger, in a what was a nasty campaign. but congressman kerry, another tea partier is out. he famously said it would be a dream to impeach president obama last summer, then couldn't stand even being within 12 feet of the president. we won't have to worry about that any more. we'll be right back. all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way.

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philosophy. fast forward to now and he is trying to sweep his past under the rug as he prepares to make a run for the presidency. it is one thing to say they evolved on an issue. most people have. but it another to hide your past. senator paul is making extremely dramatic shift. in some cases, denying he made those shift. what paul is doing is an evolution. so what will voters call it? senator paige and robert cox. by the way, if i ever win a pulitzer prize, always give credit. let's get right to it. this is part of what launched his political career, of course back in 2011. he proposed ending all foreign aid including to israel as part after radical budget blueprint to slash a half billion from the budget. but when he was asked this week about that plan it cut into iz

ral, senator paul wept after them with a vengeance say be we never add legislative proposal to do that. can you mistake my position but i'll answer the questions. that hasn't been a position, a legislative position, we have introduced it phase out or get rid of israel's aid. i have a proposed targeting or limiting aid to israel. when people write that, they aren't writing the truth. there is something called videotape. his position when it comes to israel couldn't have been much clearer. take a listen. >> just to be precise, end all foreign aid including foreign aid it israel as well, is that right? >> yes. >> thank very much for coming in. >> robert costa, that seems like a definitive answer. let me ask you this, if the record's clear, that he want wanted to get rid of foreign aid, jack kennedy wanted to do that and had that same situation

it explain. why didn't he say that is a blanket effort to get rid of all foreign aid in a way it cut down on foreign spend ppg instead he said i never legislatived in that direction. i never targeted israel. this is a cute for a presidential campaign, i think. >> the simple answer is he is running for president. part of the problem for paul is he come out of in where in 2010. comes to the senate in 2011 and start to mountain almost ideological project. he is trying it make a proj project for the libertarian right. he thinks he has a shot at the white house is is starting to mod late some of thinks visions. what did you think of the fact he is denied his past position? >> i think paul, in many ways, is soften haunted by his past. and his relationship with his father. they've had this view on foreign aid for decade. and this is animated, the paul family's political thinking for years. and it is something that still i

think sits in the paul political culture that is in the base that wants him to run for president. >> the hard right pro israeli pch but those people on the very hard right are watching this guy. >> right. >> and he must know they are watching his record. they know where he was two years ago bb three years ago, what is in it for him to deny his past positions? >> i think that was just neither on this part and awkward phrasing and all that, the way he, if you take what he said literally, if i didn't see it in writing, i didn't mean it. that is what he got in a bit of trouble over. >> completing a an eraser of what he did on the record. >> and that the thing you've got to watch out for. >> he has been evolving for a long time. >> everybody evolves but you're supposed to admit you evolved.

during his campaign in 2010 is when he got elected. saying we is against civil rights, including key port, saying restaurant and hotels to serve blacks. here is paul during an interview with the louisville courier journal, take a listen. >> i like the civil rights act in the sense it ended discrimination in all public domains and i'm all in favor of that. >> but, you had to ask me. but i don't like the idea of telling business owners. i think it is a bad business decision to ever exclude anybody from your restaurant. at the same time i believe in private ownership. >> fast forward to today raen you will hear a very different rand paul, courting african-american voters. this is at the national foreign league. >> i'm a republican who want to

restore a federal role for the government in the voting rights act. i'm committed and determined. i'm a committed and determined advocate of the 14th amendment that mates unequivocally, no state shall deny equal protection or due process, no state shall deny the natural rights of anyone. >> those white only signs i would see driving in spring break in college, saying the businessman should be allowed to make that decision. now he says, no, with the law. >> devastating for him to say the business people should have the right to refuse service. that the core of civil rights act was all about. that affected the life, my life, any other african her can who is alive then certainly had to observe it. in the the tone. in the first soundbite sound

like a kid in a dormatory debating -- yeah. now at the urban league now, there is a force to that voice. i'm unequivocally in faf of the civil rights act. that a year after visiting civil rights groups. you are seeing a real reshaping now of his approach to these issues and how he discusses them. >> people add fondness for his complete lib tarism. as you get older you deal with a more diverse society and realize that someone else's freedom is someone else's loss. someone has the door slammed in their face as someone else uses their freedom to deny anyone they want in a store. this this guy, rand paul's running for president right now, collecting all his libertarian positions to clean himself up for the middle that he never tried to win before.

>> that's right. and i think he seees a huge vacuum of power within the party. he want it jump right in. is he a flawed messenger based on his capacity campaigns? of course he is. but i don't see anyone in his party, take the reigns and going african-american. and seek votes ahead of 2016. >> in 2010, four years ago bb senator paul appeased to change the constitution of the united states so that kids born here to undocumented immigrants would not be granted citizenship under the 14th amendment. he said quote we need to have the courts review whether or not if you break the law to come into the united states whether your child would be a citizen just by being born here. cy don't think that the 14th amendment was planet to apply it illegal aliens. it is was meant to aplply to children of slaves. >> this will come as news to most americans, but he's right

technically, about the history of that amendment. but it is viewed, doesn't mean you were born here, you're a citizen. for him to make that statement otherwise is a radical statement. >> compare that to what he says now about the issue of immigration. >> for these who are here undocumented, should we give them legal status, should we document them so they can pay taxes and live legally. to that, i say yes. >> that's a breathtaking 180. i mean, excuse me, that's breathtaking. >> robert? >> it is and in a sense that rand paul is shifting in a drastic way politically from his position. as i said, i think he sees an empathy gap within his own party. he started out in 2010, 2011.

maybe it is not out of this world to think i could do it. >> clarence within what do you think? is this going to shroud his past. >> carving out a niche there and will he survive long enough adds a capped date if he decides it get in to be able to impress blacks and hispanics that he is trying. african-americans want to have competition for our vote. we haven't had that since -- >> his problem is with a large number of groups now. that he made ef one of these, a large constituency group watching him and very aware of his past and very suspicious if he truly changed. very suspicious. thank you, clarence page. thank you robert of the washington post. hillary clinton's surprise appearance on steve colbert show last night. [ kevin ] this is connolly, cameron, zach, and clementine.

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here's my review. this book is 656 pages of shameless name-dropping. jim? >> tanzanian prime minister and i do some planting at a woman's cooperative in landizi. >> did you catch that? did you catch that, tmz? she just happened to be hanging out with mizengo in landuzi. not impressed. there is no way on earth one woman can be in so many places at once. >> as can you see, former secretary of state hillary clinton did make a surprise appearance on the steve colbert report. she couldn't let him accuse of name-dropping without responding to the charge. it wasn't long until the two of thm got into a back and forth

over who could drop the bigger name. >> hillary clinton. >> now, who's a name-dropper, steven? >> oh, really? name-dropper? that's not what my good friend, tom hanks, calls me. when we're hanging out at george clooney's place. >> oh, i love george. i wish he could have joined us when i had lunch with meryl streep and ecuadorian president korea. >> oh, he is such a cut-up. especially when we good camping with oprah.d camping with oprah. camping with oprah. >> oh? >> oh, does that surprise you? >> no, o is just what all her real friend call open roo. . >> i will have you know, madam, i once did an entire show with president bill clinton. >> oh! i hate it break this to you, steven. but i've met him, too.

>> i don't think that was entirely unrehearsed or surprised. any way, next up, despite its dysfunction and obviously sagging approval numbers, washington, d.c. might be the ideal place it live. at left according to forbe's magazine which ranked washington, d.c. number one as the coolest city in the country. access to amenities, food and culture activity as well as population, age and growth. i'm not sure what that means. with washington in the top spot, seattle, washington, in the state of washington, took second place. austin, texas was third. what a great city that is. and new york city. new york, new york, the town so nice they named it twice, didn't even make the top 10. it made 11. so i guess we here in washington are moving up in the the world. up nflt, our wall street journal poll shows a number of americans are angry enough to carry a protest sign.

here is a good plis it start. sue congress for doing nothing. watching hard baul, a place for politics. you love this game. but does the game love you? ♪ who cares? look where you get to stay! booking.com booking.yeah! what if it were more than something to share? what if a photo could build that shelf you've always wanted? or fix a leaky faucet?

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hi, i'm frances rivera, here's what what's happening. the cdc is at its highest alert level due to the current ebola outbreak in west africa and recent spread it nigeria. patients in isolation at mt. sanai hospital in new york has tested negative for the virus. and hawaii declared an emergency ahead of two big storls. hurricane iselle packing 90 mile-an-hour winds expected to be here thursday. hurricane julio parking high wind. now back to "hardball." >> i continue to be impressed

with the idea i offered monday this week and expanded on last night. the i'd yf suing congress, getting even with the suit of the president by the congress. that president obama should turntables on the don't do anything congress, which last week decided to sue him. i think he should sue them back. american people are in just the mood right now. hence the numbers. 57% of american people say there is something out there that makes them so angry they would carry around a protest sign if they could. democrats of course of paul say they protest that their signs would say stop the war. raise minimum wage. keep obama care. republicans said their protest signs would say things like stop abortion. close the borders. impeach obama. here is one more for you, i think, your protest sign sue congress. joy and john, let me give you a number here. not only 3 out of 5 people say

they carry theory a sign, 3 out of 5 people say the problem with what they are so unhappy with, they feel they are still in recession, the lack of those in washington gotting things done to improve the economy. saying this is great place it live. no one saying there is great work being done here. the fact is, over all, conservatives and liberals don't agree on everything. but this government machinery must have seesed up. they never had two different health care plans, two different jobs plans. that would be healthy. one guy with ideas, the president, he doesn't veto anything. they veto him. they veto everything. they are saying, this isn't quite right in signing a veto. it is laughable, joy. you laugh because we haven't seen that insome years. a president who doesn't want to do something. this president wants to do stuff. and the congress doesn't want to do, as he puts itting with

anything. i think that is grounds for protest even carrying a sign if you've never carried one. >> chris, what i think is so interesting about your idea because the problem with congress suing the president is that they don't have standing. they can't show injury to their individual district if they're in the house of representatives. president is the one guy who represent the entire country. one politician who represent the whole country. and if you go back and look at the robert draper book, on inauguration eve, january 20, 2009, senior leaders in the republican party plotted on purpose to do nothing. you talk about be this this isn't two clashes of ideology and they can't agree, they decided proactively they weren't going to let any legislation through. they would do absolutely nothing. i think the president on behalf of the american people can say you willfully obstructed government. willfully unseat ambassadors. even pay the golf bills, letting the government default. i think the president is the one with standing because the

congress is willfully obstructing. not just him, but us. >> john, it's pretty blatant, your thoughts? >> a do-nothing congress pretending to do something by suing the president for doing anything. you're both exactly right. john boehner is holding a sign too, chris. his sign says, will obstruct, will sue a president for tea party respect thp that's what this lawsuit of his is about. trying to keep his job after the mid terms with the tea party that hate him. as joy pointed out, they had the dinner where they decided this he would block the people's business every step of the way because of government works they have no arguments left to sell to their social conservative base. i think it would be healthy for the president or somebody to sue these guys. even if it is just theater. we don't need a vulcan obama, we need a han solo obama. and conservatives who despice boehner would respect him. congress has a lower approval rating than chlamydia.

>> the reason i like to sue is the idea that it is the only way it make a case against congress. not because you disagree with them. that's old hat. we are supposed to have debates. not because people have different views on how to fix problems. that's normal. healthy. there is a disconcerted effort to sit on their hand. i look at the way they left the house. they sued the president. that's all they did. passed a meeting with crashing those kids at the border p. whatever that was. take back authority to give them relief and basically, but it was meaningless. they never met with senate. never add congress to get the bill to the president's hands. they never put anything in his hand for him to sign or veto. they just do nothing as strategy. i with like to see the american people rear up against that, roar up against that, and say, the problem with you guys is exactly what the president says, you're nothing. >> an chris, when you look at these polls, showing on top of their houses a attitude.

they are blaming in a sense president obama, a lot of people, for not being rabl to bring congress to heel. but if they made a political decision, even if he proposes their own bills ver bait yim back to them, he will say no because he is the one in it. congress is willfully obstructing your representatives ability to fix the bridges you have to travel. if you live if state where they refuse to give you medicate expansion, you look next door at state's getting the benefits of health care bill but you also pay taxes, there are so many instances where groups of americans should be able to take action it say to congress, you're willfully prevent meg from getting the benefit of my tax tole ars. and you're making my life unsafe. bridges are crumbling. roads are crumbling. we are falling apart and congress is saying politically we ain't doing nothing. >> i've been checking facebook

on this idea to sue. they're are thoughts from people. jenny writes, you saw the class action suit and we will help you. government is waiting our o time and money. and lois says i agree. president obama should sue everyone in congress. they don't even deserve a paycheck. sorry buddy, you didn't work this month, did you? >> exactly. if you don't do nur job, you don't get paid. this congress works less than a human apen dix. i want to see gloria allred being sicked on him. those who don't respect this congress would respect obama if he did it. they are claim plaming him. >> you no he, i like the way you talk. you throw in gloer gentleman alred, judge judy and my god, that's a lot in one welt. >> he earned it, chris.

he earned it. >> thank you joy. thank you, john. up next, bob mcdonnell throwing his wife under the bus to save both their skins. is she going along with this? it looks like she is. this is "hardball," a place for politics. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. where the reward was that what if tnew car smelledit card and the freedom of the open road? a card that gave you that "i'm 16 and just got my first car" feeling. presenting the buypower card from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet,

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know better sleep with sleep number. if energy could come from anything?. or if power could go anywhere? or if light could seek out the dark? what would happen if that happens? anything. >> back to "hardball" and to a

place of politics, the mcdonnell trial. the former virginia governor and his wife, since the mcdonnell's legal teams laid out their soap opera defense, that their broken marriage was proof they didn't work together to squeeze money from a wealthy businessman. you got that? here is what happened since we last covered the trial. the former virginia first lady, bird dogged ann romney to pitch the vitamin supplement made by the businessman, johnny williams who had been showering the mcdonnell's with gifts. there was an awkward encounter as a train wreck. williams offering up his private jet if governor mcdonnell could set up a dinner with him with john mccain. and the virginia health department met with jonnie well yams, the business guy, and called him the tick tack man because his vitamin supplements resembled tick tacks. i've said before be with you heard of the twinkie defense. mcdonnell appears to use the crush defense, basically throwing his wife under the bus

to save both their hides by portraying her, his wife, as having a crush on a slick businessman. and she seems to be going along with it. covering it from "the washington post" and reporting from inside the courtroom. and her latest column writes, how does a crush preclude a conspiracy. i never know what you're going to say. we'll start with melinda. i know what you'd say. make your case. just because this woman has some sort of romantic affinity for this squat business guy, who's not exactly a romantic lead in the movies, why does that have anything to do to get them off the hook for having taken all these gifts from a guy who wants something and got some services from the government? >> that's my question. i think -- >> that's why i posed it. >> i think it's a diversion, okay? it's a diversion from any of the charges, but how does having -- whether or not she really had feelings for this guy, we can't know that, but it doesn't matter. if she had feelings for him, how does that preclude her from

talking to her husband? in the history of mankind, i've never heard of a case where having feelings outside your marriage kept you from speaking to your husband about something. i mean, that's really their case is, if she had this, you know, what is this, seventh grade? they're calling it a crush, she has a crush, thus they couldn't have been working together to get money and favors -- >> whose idea was this? >> -- out of this guy. i don't know, but both the his and hers defense teams are putting it forward, and they're putting an enormous amount of energy into it, to the point that even outside the courtroom, mr. and mrs. mcdonnell are very careful never to look in each other's direction. they're sitting -- there's one lawyer sitting between them at the joint defense table -- >> so if they get acquitted, both of them, and they embrace in some incredible romantic scene out of -- where her legs go up in the back -- are they going to have a scene like that? and say, what a game we just

won? >> i don't think that's going to happen. i think it's a very dangerous defense strategy. number one, frankly, i don't understand why she has agreed to this sort of woman as victim. it's the old story, adam has taken down eve, and now, you know, today, it's mrs. mcdonnell has taken down her husband, and she's allowing herself to be the scapegoat. i, frankly think -- >> do you think it's a love, honor, obey thing? where she's the little woman from the 1950s, the image of the woman who just does what she's told? >> i don't think in this day and era, there's any woman who does what she's told. i find it very hard to believe, for whatever reason, she's going along with it, obviously, someone's attorney has said, this is a really good defense strategy, but there's a potential it's going to hurt her more than it hurts her husband. >> but they swing together -- >> if he has impunity -- but i think they believe if they impugn her character enough and people look at her as this awful, greedy woman, who was

influenced by power and money, that somehow it's going to help him, and i think it's going to backfire. >> let's imagine you're on the jury, and the point you make is the jury -- and these are going to be probably pretty smart jurors. they're watching this case and probably going, you know what, maybe she did like the guy, but she took his stuff. not only did she take his stuff, but did favors for him. she used the office of governor and her position as first lady to do stuff for him. she got stuff for her husband, the rolex watch, the ride in the ferrari, so he was in on it, it doesn't surprise me that you become friends with a lobbyist. lobbyists are incredibly charming. that's why they're good at it in this town. you don't get -- you're a social being. they were friends. that's the part i don't buy. that they were complete -- you know, they didn't know each other, it was just a business thing. i don't buy this johnny williams guy for a second. i think he ingratiated himself with the governor and got what he wanted. >> they're all transactional, all three of the players in this kind of grubby drama are so

transactional. but i am thinking, i'm sitting there on the jury, i'm thinking a couple of things. one, mcdonnell is so obviously throwing his wife under the bus, does that make me feel more kindly towards that guy. also, there's so much evidence that mcdonnell himself reached out to johnny williams many times and made many solicitations so that had nothing to do with -- >> you're a lawyer, right? >> yeah. >> two questions, which way does it go? if they don't like these people, they think this is a big karny act, a big show business show, and yet they can't prove the prosecution that there was a quid pro quo, that somebody said, if you do this, i'll do that. they can't prove that. >> in this case, i don't think the level of influence peddling we've seen raises to a criminal act. i don't think i would have used my prosecutorial discretion and

brought the case. but i think on a credibility level, they're both shot forever. >> when i got my first job at the white house, a friend siaid notice any new friends? new friends just arrive. thank you, melinda, that's what politics is about, the new friends who arrive. thank you, michelle. we'll be right back after this for my final word. another left his shoes on the plane... his shoes! and a third simply doesn't want to be here. ♪ until now... until right booking now. ♪ planet earth's number one accomodation site booking.com booking.yeah! "hashtag love dad" when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp". our aarp tek program helps people find better ways to better connect with each other. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities

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let me finish tonight, this wednesday night, with the latest look at what we americans think

of our country's politicians. seven in ten of us say that the economic problems facing the country are due to the inability of elected officials in washington to get things done to improve the economy. as one pollster put it, the message from the people is, you are causing the pain. four out of five of us, an even bigger chunk, are dissatisfied with the u.s. political system itself. three out of five are upset enough to carry a protest sign for a day. most are in the silent majority, but when they're ready to hit the street with signs, you know something's happening in this country. maybe not at the ballot box yet, but certainly if you go out and about them about things. which explains why some people jumped ed at the idea of suing congress. make them squirm a little. know the humiliation of being the defendant in a court of public opinion. because if you look at the numbers in this new poll by nbc and "the wall street journal," that's who they are, the defendants. and while the public anger is aimed at politicians generally,

it might be healthy to note that it's not president obama out there, vetoing bills, a busy congress has passed. no, it's a don't do anything congress, not doing what the president keeps asking it to do. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight, we are all in. >> does it bother you more to be accused of being an imperial president, or to be accused of being a do nothing president? >> the presidential news conference. >> i'm going to have to make choices. that's what i was elected to do. >> we'll have all the details. >> i promise you, the american people don't want me just standing around, twiddling my thumbs. >> then, why did a u.s. spy agency spoil one media outlet scoop on a terrorism watch list and give it to another? jeremy skahill will explain. plus, the frequency of voter fraud. out of 1 billion votes cast, guess how many cases turn out to be fraudulent. and a tea party congressman turns the