i'm jonathan capehart in for joy reid. this is "the reid report." we begin with break news on american air strikes aimed at isis in iraq. >> u.s. forces have dropped two 500-pound bombs in iraq. >> when the lives of american citizens are at risk, we will take action. >> a targeted air strike against the islamic state. >> when many thousands of innocent civilians are faced with the danger of being wiped out, we will take action. >> all the focus for the pentagon was on stopping that isis advance. >> the united states of america cannot turn a blind eye. >> this hour, we have all the details of the operation. we'll discuss military options, who exactly is isis, and president obama's foreign policy as violence in the region erupts. we start our coverage with analysis of the air strikes themselves and what they say about america's role in the ongoing civil war. a short time ago, the president spoke with the jordanian king.

strikes against the militants and air aerodrops to aid members of a threatened religious minority come after president obama's announcement thursday that a genocide could occur without american help. moments ago, the white house reiterated the need for these strikes as well as the limited scope of u.s. actions to support iraq. >> we'll not offer it in the form of a prolonged military conflict that involves the united states of america, and it will not involve american troops returning to iraq in a combat role. >> tracy shelton is a senior correspondent for global post. she joins me on the phone from irbil, iraq, the capital of the kurdish region and a frontline in the battle with isis. what's been the reaction there to the u.s. air strikes? >> well, people are still skeptical. there's been a lot of talk, but they haven't seen a lot of action in the past. they're happy there is some action that's going to be taken, but they're waiting to see how

much it's going to be, how effective it's going to be, how prolonged. so yeah, people are very scared. but they're happy about the initial strikes at least. >> and tracy, they're very scared, but what's the status of the refugees on that mountain? >> i was with a young man this afternoon. his father is one of the people trapped up there. he called to him today. they're all sick. many of them have died already from dehydration, from lack of food. they have nothing. they're out there in the elements. yeah, they can't last very long. >> and tracy, one last question. how close are the isis fighters to irbil now? >> the last i heard they're around 20 to 30 minutes away from the capital. so there are still a few villages in between, but there's no significant towns between the line they're holding now and

irbil. >> tracy shelton of global post, thank you for joining us. nbc's luke russert joining me live from the white house. luke, do we know what president obama and king abdullah discussed on that phone call today? >> as of right now, jonathan, there's been no concrete readout about what the conversation was between president obama and king abdullah. although, we presume it obviously had to do with these air strikes and about the u.s.'s continued partnership with jordan, trying to alleviate this threat. we do know specifics from the white house as to why exactly they moved forward with these air strikes. we got three reasons from josh ernest, the white house press secretary. he said, number one, we wanted to protect american personnel on the ground, especially around that city of irbil, which you talked about. number two, he wanted to alleviate that humanitarian crisis, specifically the one in the mountains where the religious minorities are being persecuted. number three, which i found most fascinating, was this idea to support the kurds and try to unify them with the iraqi

defense forces against isis. obviously, that's something easier said than done. but you see a lot of u.s. support for the kurdish military here, something we've seen in the past. that's obviously continuing. now, a few other interesting points. we have no end date specifically for when these air strikesing end or if there will be more of them. that's being kept purposely vague as to not alert the enemy. but the president is still slated to go on vacation tomorrow to martha's vineyard. they always leave up the possibility he could come back at any time if the crisis were to warrant. lastly, a lot of consternation in congress about this from the republican side, saying they support these air strikes. they believe it was necessary. but they want a more concrete plan because they believe this to be a real terrorist threat that's going to keep on going and this shouldn't be a few bombs, it should be a new game plan. a lot of interesting things at work here. >> all right. nbc's luke russert, thank you. joining me now, bobby goesh, managing editor at quartz.

let me play for you how the president defended his decision thursday night and get your response on the other side. >> when we face a situation like we do on that mountain, with innocent people facing the prospect of violence on a horrific scale, when we have a mandate to help, in this case a request from the iraqi government, and when we have the unique capabilities to help avert a massacre, then i believe the united states of america cannot turn a blind eye. we can act carefully and responsibly to prevent a potential act of genocide. >> your reaction, bobby? >> well, i think there's a very, very real risk of genocide. there are some very small but very ancient religious communities there that are -- whose numbers are too small. they won't be able to defend themselves. it's very clear the ike i can military cannot defend them, doesn't want to. it's also clear the kurdish don't want to defend them. these are communities that are in real risk of being

exterminated. >> can you tell us a little bit more about this religious group that the united states is defending? who are they, and why is isis so determined to kill them? >> well, i'll take your second question first. isis is determined to kill almost anybody, anybody who does not believe in their narrow definition of islam. that incluz fellow muslims, by the way. but there are two or three small groups. the one that's getting the most attention right now are call the yazidis. most of them live in northern iraq, very poor. they have survived for thousands of years. this religion existed before the time of islam, before the time of christianity. they are a very, very old religion. their beliefs are a mix of many religions quite ancient. zoroastrianism is a big part.

they've been behiminding their business. they're very, very poor. for the most part, iraqis have let them be. but isis on the way to irbil decided to stop and try and exterminate this community. why do they want to do it? because they are basically against everybody. their hatred is so great it's directed against everyone who they declare an unbeliever. >> so why is the united states striking now and not a few months ago when the prime minister asked the united states to do so? >> well, al maliki wasn't keeping up his side of the bargain, which is to deliver political stability and show his government wants to protect its people. his government plainly does not. he's only interested in protecting the shiites. so the u.s. really couldn't give him what he wanted because he wasn't delivering his end of the bargain. why are we doing this now? because the crisis has reached proportions that the world cannot ignore.

we ignored it for a couple weeks because everyone was focusing on gaza. quite rightly. now the scale of the violence -- i mean, they've killed -- on some days ca, a couple thousandf people. isis is rounding up people in camps and exterminating them the way nazis used to do. this is a kind of monstrosity we have not seen before. if we don't -- and by we, i don't mean the united states, the world. we'll all come to regret it. >> isis isn't only in iraq. it's in syria. why is the united states striking in iraq and not in syria? >> in syria, the case is far more complicated. there's more than one bad guy operating. there is of course bashar assad, who's the dictator who's presided over the slaughter of more than 100,000 of his own people. there are very few obvious good guys now in that war in syria. it's harder to choose.

in iraq, in that mountain, the lines are much more easily drawn between the innocent and the vulnerable on one side and the malign and evil on the other. so it's easier to intervene there. >> is there a risk of mission creep here? the president last night was very clear in drawing distinct lines and reasons for why he was authorizing the humanitarian drop and air strikes, but is there a risk here of mission creep? >> there's always a risk of mission creep. they're already using language that is deceptive. they're saying there are no combat troops. well, if there's a pilot flying an american military aircraft above iraqi air, that's a combat troop already in iraq. now, eventually they're going to have to be boots on the ground. they may not be our boots, but there are going to have to be some boots. you cannot eliminate a terrorist organization purely from sky.

that's not how they operate. they don't stand around waiting to be bombed. they don't have large military installations you can take out. the reason they're successful is that they're spread out. somebody is going to have to engage them on ground. the hope is that iraqis had rise to the occasion, that the kurds will rise to the occasion. perhaps that phone call with the jordanian king, perhaps they'll get into the picture. all the countries in that neighborhood have much to fear and hate from isis. the task for the united states is to provide some lineup and to galvanize this concern that everybody has and to get everyone to understand, look, we're in this together. we'll give you air support, but you have to do stuff on ground. >> bobby, thank you very much for being here. >> thanks for having me. coming up, the u.s. launches air strike against islamic militants in iraq. our country has hundreds of military advisers on the ground. i'll talk to a retired four-star general who served there and about what other military options we have there. what they,

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president obama acted expeditiously and appropriately to authorize targeted military action and to provide significant humanitarian assistances to the people of iraq at this very difficult time when it is vitally need. >> secretary of state john kerry on a separate mission in afghanistan, defending president obama's decision to use air strikes to defend an embattled religious minority in iraq. retired four-star general barry mccaffrey is an nbc military analyst. and patrick murphy, the first veteran of the iraq war to serve in congress. he's also an msnbc contributor. thank you, both, for being here.

general mccaffrey, i'm going to start with you. josh marshall asked this question about the kurdish army in the north. for years we've been told that the peshmerga was a highly disciplined and fairly fearsome fighting force. is possible that the peshmerga were never the force they were made out to be? >> i must admit i was also astonished at the rapidity of which they fell apart in defending some of these peripheral areas. i don't think they wanted to fight to protect some of these religious minorities. they should fight and die to protect irbil. that will be the question. the other part of it is, though, we clearly are seeing isis with large quantities of captured u.s. armor, artillery, et set ra -- et cetera. we should have been and should now support kurdish ability to defend themselves.

not u.s. air strikes but their ability to defend themselves. >> patrick, let me read to you how "the washington post" described why only the u.s. and not iraqi military could fly these missions. quote, the refugees do not appear to control any airfield suitable for landing of heavy transport aircraft. transporting material without the benefit of a landing strip is difficult and time consuming. the same factors that make it difficult to bomb guerrillas in mountains make it difficult to supply refugees. >> jonathan, that's absolutely true. general mccaffrey and i spent years of our lives jumping out of the air force airplanes, and that's not size. when you're talking about ton of supplies on pallets, that's not easy. that's not a natural mission. when you're making sure that you're doing these things, these drops and not hitting people, et cetera, but putting them close enough so people can get that humanitarian relief is

critically important. jonathan, if i could say something real quick. your earlier question to general mccaffrey, you know, why the unit wasn't as strong and fierce. when you look at a soldier's heart, what they're fighting for, you know, here in iraq you have iraqis verse iraqis. it's sunni versus shia. that's why it's an issue. when you have the sunnis who look at the iraqi president, maliki, as someone who does not lead their country, that is most interested in the shia population, that takings away their heart to fight and die for their country. >> general mccaffrey, let me come back to you. what's your assessment of the actions the u.s. has taken so far, dropping two 500-pound bombs on an isis position near irbil, dropping food and water for the tens of thousands of religious minorities trapped by the isis militants? >> for step nunumber one, to si down with a piece of paper and

write out your political objective and get the military and economic and other tools of u.s. power and say, how do we get to objective? i don't think we're worried about mission creep. we don't have a mission. if it's genocide, humanitarian assistance create breathing space for the kurdish forces. none of these minor political demonstrations of intent are even remotely possible to get there. so we got to sort out, what are we actually trying to achieve, and are we serious about it? then go after it. i don't think we're ever going to go back in and fight in iraq. it would be political suicide for the administration. what we've got to do is get our allies to be able to defend themselves. we have been reluctant to do that because we thought we had to keep an iraqi state together. it's already gone. >> patrick, you served in iraq. what if the u.s. air strike against isis don't work and isis keeps advancing on irbil? what else can the president do?

>> well, without boots on the ground, we are very limited. and i would say boots on the ground to take out isis must be iraqi boots, jonathan. this is not america's war to fight. that's why the iraqi army needs to step up and -- especially the kurds in the north, need to come together. as you mentioned, to the west, you have humanitarian assistance to those 40,000 folks and the refugees in the mountaintop. you had 40 casualties already. in the east, we do have interests. we have interests there because we have american military advisers there and a consulate there. so again, most americans, you know, in places like bucks county, pennsylvania, where i live, they'll say what's the clear and present danger to americans? well, not to our country with isis, but there is a threat to u.s. troops and our state department personnel in irbil. that's why we need to make sure that isis doesn't have that access to the artillery shells,

which is why we took them out with those f-18s. >> do the kurds have the military capability to push isis back? >> well, i'd be astonished if isis can capture irbil. it would be a real shock to me that the kurds would not have the mipolitical and military wi to defend themselves. they're a much larger force. i don't see that happening. i do think, though, that if we're talking about kurdish independence, kurdish ability to defend themselves, we should be providing substantial support. these communities, though -- the parts of the country that have been seized by isis are largely sunni parts of the nation. it's already under their control as is much of syria and parts of lebanon. so this is a genuine redirection of the national boundaries going on in the middle east. it's going to take ten years, it's going to be violent and

bloody bloody, and u.s. military power is not necessarily going to change that political calculus in any significant way. >> general barry mccaffrey and patrick murphy, thank you very much being here. up next, we'll update you on the other breaking story, new fighting in gaza now that the 72-hour humanitarian cease-fire has expired. we'll have a live report from tel aviv. can impart one lessona new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

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at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. so let's do it. let's simplify healthcare. let's close the gap between people and care. breaking news in the middle east. the u.n. secretary general is condemning a new round of fighting that broke out earlier today. hamas fired rockets into israel just moments after the three-day cease-fire expired and israel retaliated. hamas says refused to renew the cease-fire because israel would not accommodate its demands. nbc's martin fletcher joins me live from tel aviv. martin, where do we go from here? >> well, jonathan, that is the question.

the fighting resumed this morning at 8:00 local time. there's been about 60 rockets fired by hamas in gaza into israel. israel's retaliated. they've hit back about 60 times in 50 to 60 separate attacks. in terms of the fighting, it's resumed. where do we go from here? it can only get worse. there's a specific incident of a high death count. it could get a lot worse militarily. the israeli ground forces have not moved. they have not returned to gaza. seems israel will attack from the air. but it does seem to be rather halfhearted resumption of military activity. although, i say that. in fact, five palestinians were killed today in gaza. two israelis very wounded. but nevertheless, the cease-fire talks in cairo, that's where one should be looking. although, the israeli delegation returned home from cairo saying that they were getting nowhere, that they weren't able to narrow the differences with hamas.

really, they came home because they want to be back in israel for the sabbath. it's likely they'll return to cairo sunday, monday. in cairo, the palestinian delegation is still there talking to the egyptians, trying to come up with some way of narrowing the very, very wide differences between israel and hamas in gaza. there has been some progress. israel says they are, for instance, prepared to extend the fishing limit in gaza, increase humanitarian aid to gaza. but anything concerning security, israel said they will not budge. hamas has said they won't move forward israel unless security issues are dealt with. so the two sides are still wide apart. fighting has resumed, but we haven't given up on cease-fire negotiations. does seem sunday, monday there will be more progress. meanwhile, they're fighting again. that's the bad news. >> nbc's martin fletcher in tel aviv. thank you. up next, yet another test

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a complete multivitamin with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. age? who cares. we continue this hour with our breaking news coverage of the united states' air strikes in iraq. president obama said thursday the mission is to protect both an embattled religious minority as well as u.s. allies in the north of the country from a creeping sunni insurgency. moments ago, this is how the white house framed the abilities of those insurgents. >> we do remain concerned about the military proficiency that's been demonstrated by isil and it's why you've seen the president take steps, including the authorization of military force, that would protect american citizens who might be harmed by isil. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell joins me live from our washington bureau. kelly, can you tell us what

affect these air strikes have had? >> we don't really have an assessment of that yet. when you listen to what the white house and state are saying, i'm sure there's a lot of analysis going on right now at the department of defense to try to ascertain what the effect was, in part to try to give guidance to those making the decisions on future strikes. what we have learned from white house officials is that the kind of authorization the president has given does not require him to in effect give a green light for each subsequent strike if others are deemed to be necessary. the expectation is there will be more. so we don't know yet exactly the effect. what we can say is the two planes carrying 500-pound bombs were aimed at artillery and towing vehicles that were trying to move that weaponry in the area. they were spotted using laser-guided missiles. remember, there are, in effect, some boots on the ground with respect to about 300 military advisers, not classified as combat troops, but u.s. military

advisers and personnel in the region trying to help the kurds and the iraqi army deal with this isis/isil situation. so we don't have a specific assessment yet. we understand that there are some video or photo evidence that was able to be obtain by the department of defense. i was told by senior administration officials there wasn't any kind of realtime viewing at the white house of the operation when it happened, unlike some of the other big military operations we've seen in the past. so the expectation is there will likely be more both in terms of humanitarian and potentially military strikes. jonathan? >> nbc's kelly o'donnell, thank you. just a short time ago, the state department reiterated the rational fras rationale for striking militants in the not rth of iraq. >> i can tell you why in this situation we believed there was a crisis that had the potential to get much worse. we were asked by the iraqi government to come in and help.

when they could not handle it themselves. we had the capability to do so. >> joining me now, chris matthews, the host of "hardball." thanks for being here. let me read you speaker john boehner's statements on the strikes. the president's authorization of air strikes is appropriate, but like many persons, i'm dismayed by the ongoing absence of a strategy for countering the grave threat isis poses to the region. vital national interests are at stake, yet the white house has remained disengaged, despite warnings from iraqi leaders, congress, and members of its own administration. >> well, that's a partisan response, of course. you know, usually where there have been cases in fairly recent history where there's crisis, we unite for a day or two. there you had an immediate political response. the question before this president and before anybody who thinks about it is a graduated response, the kind we did in the cuban missile crisis.

we're not dealing with a monolithic opponent here. i don't think isis has the capability to simply say, well, we're faced with a couple 500-pound bombs, we better pull back and re-examine our geopolitical ambitions here. i'm not sure it's that kind of a rational response we can get. how are we sending a message and to whom by dropping two 500-pound bombs? clearly that's not enough to stop a moving army. so whose message is it, and who's expected to receive that message? and do we hope they'll stop encircling those people dying of thirst right now, stop attacking those religious minorities in a genocide fashion? why do we think two bombs will do that? we may be misguided already. >> chris, let me read you something else, this time from our colleague nbc's mark murray. what he said of the political calculus here. he wrote, what changed obama's calculus on using force in iraq? if you lose the kurds, you pretty much lose iraq.

>> well, there's so much information that's coming from all different areas. my belief, getting into this issue last night, was when you hear christians are being ext m exterminated or threatened to be exterminated hits a strong nerve in this country, which is overwhelmingly christian. and when you hear about american officials in irbil being threatened, that hits a nerve. jonathan, driving up here to the nbc studios tonight, i drove right behind a car that had as a bumper sticker, benghazi was a cover-up. then a couple idf stickers. i thought, well, put those two together, this guy's a hawkish person who's still mad about benghazi. if we lost a consulate in irbil because we didn't do anything about it, that's benghazi two. that's one of the issues. i don't think it's honest to say we're going in there to defend american personnel. we could have evacuated that personnel. i think we're going in there to

prevent genocide. i think that's different than getting into iraq the way we did back in 2001, '02, and '03 or getting involved to overthrow a government we didn't like. this is different. when you go in to stop genocide, most americans rally behind you, which is what's disappointing about boehner, which is always so disappointing about him. he can't just stand up an as american and speak as an american and stop talking as a guy trying to keep that group of right wingers behind him content. they'll never be contented by what he says. he keeps trying to appease them. i don't understand why he didn't just say, you know, the president did what he had to do, let's be united for a few hours here and see what the next step is. that would have been an american response. >> let me read you yet another thing. this time from max fisher who framed obama's message to isis this way. if you are a member of isis, here's how you might hear obama's message. stay away from iraqi kurd stand and the rest of northern iraq is yours to keep. invading iraq's kurdish region,

it turned out, was obama's red line for isis. >> i don't respond to that kind of stuff. that's not of interest to me. why would i respond to something like that? >> good point. >> let me deal with the political people. >> okay. >> i don't need to respond to those professionally. >> here's a question, then, involving something that senator marco rubio said about the strikes. he said, instead of confronting this challenge head on, president obama has until now avoided taking decisive action. he has let the civil war in syria simmer for years, creating the space for this jihadist threat to grow and letting instability spread to syria's neighbors. >> you know, jonathan, you and i know watching this as journalists that is the easiest thing to do is pick a date and move forward from that and judge all decisions and conditions based upon that. go back to 2001, 2002, and 2003. why did we have a hand in breaking up syria and libya? once you break up these

countries, you break it, you bought it. how did we get involved? destabilization. it's an old british term. when you take a country apart, you can't predict which elements of those factions will do. remember yugoslavia? there was no more tito, then no more yugoslavia. this is what happens. these strong men do hold countries together. as an american, you have to decide, is it better to put up with a limited s.o.b. or let the whole region come apart? that's the decisions george w. bush made. he said, no, we'll take risk of it coming apart. president obama says, you know what, this destability is not a good thing. we ought to stop block busting countries. these are difficult vierent vie. i doeblt think it's a time to do the blame game. it's too early to say who was right when and who was wrong when.

neither side is neither clairvoyant or omniscient. i think we agree on that. >> yes, i'm with you on that. chris matthews, thank you very much. be sure to watch "hardball" weeknights at 7:00 eastern here on msnbc. from iraq to syria to russia, we'll discuss foreign and diplomatic challenges in president obama's second term. then nbc news just getting a statement from american ebola patient dr. kent brantly, who's receiving treatment at emory university hospital in atlanta. we'll fill you in on his condition minutes from now. business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov

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olay. your best beautiful. we have breaking news here in the united states as one of two americans we bith ebola has issued his first statement since arriving for treatment. dr. kent brantly contracted the virus after trying to help people in africa. he had this to say about his recovery. i'm growing stronger every day,

and i thank god for his mercy as i have wrestled with this terrible disease. i also want to extend my deep and sincere thanks to all of you who have been praying for my recovery as well as for nancy and for the people of liberia and west africa. also today, the world health organization declared the ebola outbreak an international public health emergency. it's urging states in the region to screen most travelers but not recommending a general ban on travel. now back to our breaking news from iraq that u.s. airplanes attacked isis militants. we're also looking at other hot spots the president has to deal with. there's the civil war raging in syria, where isis also has a serious foothold. [ gunfire ] in libya, things have gotten so bad, the u.s. and several other western countries have pulled out their embassy staff.

all this as the fighting between israel and hamas resumed today after the cease-fire expired early this morning. stack all of that on top of nuclear-fueled tensions with iran, election angst in afghanistan, plus the ongoing russian-fueled insurgency in ukraine and you've got more than enough for any administration to deal with. joining us now is a senior fellow at the center for american progress, and the ceo and editor at large of "foreign policy" magazine. brian, let me start with you. we just listed a few of the biggest trouble spots in the world. are these manageable for the president and his administration, or is this going to fall off the radar? >> i think they've been trying to react in very tactical measures to contain these threats. but quite frankly, as we've seen this summer, there hasn't been great success. libya has spiralled into

fragmentation. the islamic state in iraq and syria have actually expanded their zone of influence. so i don't think yet they've found the right strategic framework to respond to what is essentially a fragmentation and fracturing of a lot of these societies and growth of nonstate threats like the islamic state. i think it implies a different approach to the middle east than we've had for decades. it's one for any administration very difficult to adjust to. >> david, what about russia? they're a player in ukraine, obviously. but putin is a big backer of assad in syria. on flip side, washington needs moscow to make the iran nuke talks work. how fine a line can the white house walk here? >> well, we're going to find out. it's a pretty tough line to walk because putin is pushing harder and harder into eastern ukraine. people are on edge. there are a lot of troops there ready possibly to move. but he does -- obama does need

putin. secretary kerry needs his counterpart in order to make progress in iran and in order to possibly come up with a solution in syria. and they're trying to work both sides of it. we can't have a complete breakdown in our conversation with the russians. there's another factor that plays into this as well. for the first time ever, we have big middle east issues in which china is a serious player as a potential consumer of energy and also as a country that's concerned as is russia about the spread of militant extremism. so for the first time we've got to balance several changing great power relationships with the shifting regional relationships that brian was talking about. that requires a new strategy. yet, what the administration's been able to do thus far is react and react and react. and they've been on their back foot from the beginning because there are so many changes happening so rapidly. >> brian, let me read you

something from richard haas at the council on foreign relations, what he wrote in "the washington post." the goal of policy should be to calm the situation. so has the u.s. done this today by dropping bombs on isis rebels, or have we made the situation worse? >> i think for u.s. interests, this is a step in the right direction. look, we don't need another benghazi where diplomatic personnel are killed. i think that's the first thing that drove this very tactical engagement. the second is to try to help these poor people in northern iraq who are suffering at the hands of isis. but these are very tactical shifts at this point. i think where david and i largely agree is that we still don't have much of a strategic framework to deal with this chaos in the middle east. you can blame president obama for this, but i think any administration would be taxed by the problems they're facing right now. and i think the obama administration's challenge is that it wants o focus on what it calls the long game. these efforts like the africa

summit here in washington this week, the u.s.-china dialogue, the engagement with india. with those rising powers david talked about. yet, all of these crises are begging for a deeper involvement in u.s. leadership. i think the trick here is for president obama to actually calibrate what our engagements are and to boost partners in the region to strengthen them. not to get deeply involved in quagmires again, i think, is the challenge for them. >> in the case of ukraine and russia, david, even in the middle east, there are diplomats to talk to. there are people to negotiate with. in iraq with isis, there's no spokesperson. there's no leader you can get on the phone much less sit down at the table with. so how do you deal with the situation like that in any way other than military force? >> well, groups like isis have funding sources that come from countries that we have some relationship with. so we can put some pressure on those. groups like isis have multiple

enemies. we find ourselves in a strange situation right now in iraq where we are bombing isis. the iranians are supporting the iraqi government in other ways. so we're strangely alied with the iranians who have been our rivals in the region for some time. the turks are a little bit involved. even assad is fighting isis in syria. so one of the things you want to do is calibrate how the pressure is put on them. bereave me, if isis moves towards jordan, which is a real red line in the region, you'll soon find jordan, the gulf states, and the israelis seeking to put pressure on them. for the u.s. as a leader, the trick is going to be to orchestrate that, to calibrate it so that we're not shouldering all the burden but that we're not ignoring the problem, which is really what we've been doing for the past couple years. >> brian, given what david was just saying, this gets to a question that we we -- that i have. so far, not many of our allies are helping in iraq.

why aren't more of our friends stepping in? >> well, i think a big part of it in the region is you have two major divides. one, there's a division between iran and saudi arabia. the shia/suenni sectarian split. there's another divide between many of these sunni states. saudi arabia versus qatar. they themselves have been fighting viciously over who to support in the syrian opposition, also inside of egypt and things like this. in that strategic context, quite frankly, the u.s. has relationships with nearly all of these actors except for iran. and it's hard for us to actually pick sides in that if the region is at odds with one another. that's what's different about this new era of cold war. they're throwing their weight around. they're a tremendous oil wealth in ways that are leading and contributing to the fragmentation of these very countries and their breaking apart. that's really unfortunate. >> david, speaking of iran, what's iran's role in the

situation in iraq? is the strife there making the iranians stronger? >> i think the iranians have actually become stronger. they have been stronger because we need them in iraq. they've become stronger because we need them in syria. they've also become stronger because the administration needs some victories and one of the potential victories they've got is a nuclear deal with iran. the perverse element of this is speaking to brian's accurate analysis by drawing closer to iran, we make it harder to deal with some of our traditional allies in the gulf. they start to trust us a little less. and we need those allies in the gulf to be the stabilizing force in this sunni/sunni fight brian was talking about. and that's got to be an element of this strategy, which has yet to evolve. and we've got a problem withina by embracing iran, but not being a reliable ally, some of our traditional alliances have

started to become a little bit weaker and the allies have been a little more skeptical of us. >> brian and david, thank you very much. >> thank you. up next, one of the other big stories we're following. hawaii's getting slammed with one strong storm as another even stronger one is on the way. we'll be right back. ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. having a perfectly nice day, when out of nowhere a pick-up truck slams into your brand new car. one second it wasn't there and the next second... boom! you've had your first accident. now you have to make your first claim. so you talk to your insurance company and... boom! you're blindsided for a second time. they won't give you enough money to replace your brand new car. don't those people know you're already shaken up?

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of about 60 miles per hour. president storm could dump up to a foot of rain in some areas. schools, courts, state offices and many businesses are closed today. following about 900 miles behind iselle we're also watching hurricane julio, a category 3 storm, which is expected to make landfall on sunday. that wraps up things here at

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buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com we continue with the breaking story. u.s. airplanes once again in the skies over iraq. i am krystal ball as we come on air at 3:00 eastern, here is the very latest. air strikes on isis rebels in northern iraq are under way. the faa has now banned all u.s. carriers from flying over that country because, of course, of the military and humanitarian operations happening right now. this morning two u.s. fighter jets dropped 500 pounds of explosives on isis fighters who were hauling artillery. this in response to the isis rebels' advance on the strategically important city of

erbil, where u.s. military trainers are stationed. washington also has a consulate there. meantime, the humanitarian mission continues with air drops of food and water to help tens of thousands of reyfugees who have fled brutality and are hunkered down on a mountain top. so far, 8,000 ready-to-eat meals and 5,300 gallons of water have been dropped. earlier today, secretary of state john kerry warned of possible genocide. >> isil's campaign of terror against the innocent, including the yazidi and christian minorities, and its grotesque targeted acts of violence show all the warning signs of genocide. for anyone who needed a wake-up call,