erbil, where u.s. military trainers are stationed. washington also has a consulate there. meantime, the humanitarian mission continues with air drops of food and water to help tens of thousands of reyfugees who have fled brutality and are hunkered down on a mountain top. so far, 8,000 ready-to-eat meals and 5,300 gallons of water have been dropped. earlier today, secretary of state john kerry warned of possible genocide. >> isil's campaign of terror against the innocent, including the yazidi and christian minorities, and its grotesque targeted acts of violence show all the warning signs of genocide. for anyone who needed a wake-up call, this is it.

>> the dual military and humanitarian missions all laid out by the president last night. >> today i authorized two operations in iraq. targeted air strikes to trek our american personnel and a humanitarian effort to help save thousands of iraqi civilians who are trapped it on a mountain without food and water. and we have a mandate to help, in this case a request from iraqi government. when we have the you niunique capabilities to help avert a massacre, then i believe the united states of america cannot turn a blind eye. we can act. carefully and responsibly to prevent a potential act of genocide. i will not allow the united states to be dragged into fighting another war in iraq. so even as we support iraqis as they take the fight to these terrorists, american combat troops will not be returning to fight in iraq. >> on this special edition of "the cycle," we have the story covered from all angles. the military mission with iraq

war veteran john sultz and tony schafer. the diplomatic effort and regional impact with ken pollack. and reaction on the hill from peter walsh. also, who are the yazidi people who are trapped there on that mountain? and comparisons to past conflicts, specifically, what, if anything, can we take from what happened in libya? we'll cover that with tom sanderson, an expert in transnational threats. let's begin with the military mission with kelly o'donnell. what's the latest? how soon do you think we could expect potential additional air strikes? >> well, at this point, krystal, it has been that first round involving two f-18s dropping two 500-pound bombs. the president's authority does give the military additional ability to act without the president having to individually green light each instance in which american fighters would be over the skies of iraq.

so we don't know. it would be determined in part by the military assessments. there are 300 military advisers on the ground who are assisting the kurds and the iraqis, americans who are there to try to help with this, in part helping also with the laser-guided detection so they can guide those bombers when they do come in. so timing for a next strike is unclear. it's typical those things are not announced before they happen. more typically, we learn after a mission has been completed. it could also include additional humanitarian aid. we know that the president has given this authority and has notified member of congress. there are a couple of procedural things that will need to happen. the white house has indicated it will send an official letter for the war powers act to congress. and in today's briefing at the white house, it was clear that the spokesperson there, josh earnest, is not giving a timeline for how long this military operation could last. except to say that he does not expect and the president's

intention is not for the u.s. to be drawn in deeper. that raises some of the concerns and criticisms coming from republicans who believe there needs to be a larger strategy to deal with this terrorist group because of its own ability to carry out strikes. not a militia, not a small band of jihadists, but a far more organize group as it's being described. that has the support of congressional democrats, too, who are saying -- some influentials, including diane feinstein -- that this is the right move in term of a h humanitarian action but also in dealing with this group that poses a threat to america. so the military plan, there's no assessment about the effectiveness of those first strikes yet that has been made public. but the president and his advisers and certainly the department of defense has the latitude to carry out additional strikes if they believe those are necessary. so given the time difference and

darkness, that's typically when those things would take place. we don't have a specific impact yet about what the effectiveness was. you know, the target was artillery and vehicles carrying those to try to stop the assault on the sect of religious groups who are on that mountain. the humanitarian aid is a big piece of this, which makes it politically more acceptable in terms of the reaction we're hearing. there's also been a considerable amount of support from both parties on the president's decision to take this action. krystal? >> nbc's kelly o'donnell, thank you so much. joining us now, lieutenant colonel tony schafer. he ran black ops in afghanistan and is now a senior fellow at the london center for policy research. and also iraq war veteran john sultz, now chairman of votevets.org. john says obama is right when it comes to providing humanitarian aid in iraq. gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> sure. >> thanks. >> tony, i wanted to start with you. the president as well as josh earnest both being very clear we

will not have boots on ground in iraq. clearly they were reluctant to go there far. clearly they are reluctant to go much further. are we hoping arab states in the region will step up militarily? >> that's our best hope. first, they have to stop the bleeding. right now this is a serious, serious situation. the kurds right now have the best shot of boots on the ground doing something. they've been in contract with isis. they had a defeat over the last couple days, losing control of the dam, for example. that's where we should put our money first. long term, we have to look at how we can organize the people we've trained. the saudis, egypt, and jordan. they all have interests. we should look at something like an arab version of nato to get their boots on the ground. this is something we didn't do in libya. we didn't organize a force to go in there and do some work. the bottom line is we can stop a

lot of what's going on with air lift and the fighter aircraft. i would argue we should put the a-10s in there to do more damage, to take out the equipment that isis stole from the iraqis, that we gave the iraqis. but we got to long term think about how we can solve this and stabilize the region. >> john, tony talks about the kurds. people want to ask, why do we feel the need to move now? well, the kurds seems to be a major part of the answer. erbil, where there are american people and also many kurdish people, erbil is being threatened. you helped train the kurdish military. you understand as well as anybody that they have been an ally to us throughout this and we must stand and protect the kurds when they need us. >> they're our only friends. they've been with us in resistance. the green berets have been in there a long time working with the kurdish peshmerga. the kurds have unity of purpose. it was an honor to train them in 2011. if american military sent me to

northern iraq tomorrow to train the kurds, i could do it with honor. i think every american who served up with the kurds knows that there is no green-on-blue incidents. they love americans. they're our strongest ally in the region. the other issue in erbil is that's where the american consulate is. we have this term in the military, broken arrow term, means you're being overrun. the peshmerga, we made some mistakes. i think we didn't spend as much time with them towards the end. the fact that isis is only 30, 40 miles outside of erbil is a problem because that's where the american consulate is. before we had a benghazi type situation with americans being overrun, the president had to act decisively. the yazidi are being slaughtered. my translater in iraq was yazidi. he e-mailed me this morning he

just escaped. the president deserves credit for acting decisively. >> tony, give us a sense of just how dangerous isis is. in the past, president obama has referred to isis as the jv team to which you have pointed out, actually, they're the worst of the worst. you've also been calling on the administration to take action for months now. did we wait too long? >> we did. i agree with john, everything john just said. this is why it's so important we go in with a plan to actually resolve this as best we can immediately. kurds are our best hope. with that said, we've only begun the humanitarian support. there's 50,000 people on that mountain. we gave like 10,000, you know, bottles of water. we need to do more. so we need to move in rapidly and do this. the bottom line is the reason that isis is so effective is because they are worse than al qaeda. they've taken elements of the parties and incorporated them in. that's why they're so militarily effective. they have the inside track on how to actually go about d

dismantling the iraqi military. i think we have really to our own peril not taken them seriously. again, a number of us have been warn about this. it's time we take positive action to eliminate isis. >> of course, the humanitarian intervention argument here applies to a lot of other places. it applies to syria, where we didn't intervene and where in every measure we have the united states public was not interested in intervening. the slaughter continues there with a brutal thug in assad. a lot of places in africa we've seen humanitarian crises where we have not done anything. it seems here, tony, that part of the question has to be not only are there bad things we might be able to stop but what is strategic imperative? deputy national security adviser saying today on msnbc that isis, unlike al qaeda, does not have currently a plan to try to project force and hit us at the homeland, hit us out here in the

west. so what is the strategic argument for elevating them to the level potentially of al qaeda in our foreign policy? >> mr. rhodes does not know what he's talking about. the leader said flat out, i'll see you in new york. that's a threat. they're trying to establish a base of operations, similar to what they had in afghanistan. i think that's what we need to be focused on. beyond that, our national interest is regional stability. as john just said, we invested in the kurds. they're a close ally. we went in there, they helped us, we helped them. then there's the issue of oil. we are becoming more and more independent of oil because of our own resources. our allies are not. so there's multiple issues we need to define. again, we need to define our strategy that goes with the policy, and that policy and a game plan. we don't have that yet. we've been working on this with congress for months. this is not new to us. we need to figure out a way to identify our issues, codify what our plan is and take action. >> can i just -- i just want to jump in here and reiterate

something. this issue of genocide, i mean, one of the issues we saw in syria was the genocide, the syrians who were fighting bashar assad. they were cutting people's heads off and these types of things. in libya also. people we sided with at times were on wrong side of the war. and here the kurds are not that type of organization. that's what makes this so different. >> john, i want to jump in, though. we heard from administration now a few times that this is not going to lead to boots on the ground. this is not going to lead to an all-out war, which is something really important for the american people to hear. but also for our troops to hear. we talk so much about how americans are war weary, but give us a sense of how our troops are feeling about this. is there a sense they are war weary as well? >> i think people support the kurds. i think this is so different because when you look at syria, everybody in the u.s. military was against intervention in syria. they're against giving weapons to crazy people on the other side of the border. they were against giving weapons

to anti-assad forces. the kurds are not isis. the kurds are not involved in a sunni revolution in syria that neither side is the good guy. i think there's a tremendous amount of sympathy from people who served in the u.s. military for the kurds and their population. that's why you see my support. >> john and tony, thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that's the military angle. up next, the diplomatic effort with ken pollack. much more ahead on our special breaking hour here one. "the cycle." at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare changes. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when healthcare becomes simpler. so let's do it. let's simplify healthcare. let's close the gap between people and care. fancy feast broths.

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hitting two targets, hitting twice earlier today. the president spoke to jordan's king abdullah by phone, but the white house isn't saying what was discussed on that call. britain's prime minister came out in support of u.s. air strike earlier today. our closest iraq war pledged to help in the humanitarian effort but ruled out assisting the u.s. military air strikes against isis. when it comes to stopping isis, that means no major allies are backing the u.s.'s military effort. for more on what the president planned to do and this breaking news, we go to nbc's kristen welker. what can you tell us? >> well, ari, not a surprise that there's been a second air strike. a couple of headlines came out of the white house briefing today. one, that there is no timeline for these air strikes. they are open ended. and the president has given the green light for these air strikes to go forward if and when needed. if and when it is deem necessary

by those military commanders who are on the ground. and the other piece of this is that during the daily briefing with white house press secretary josh earnest, he didn't rule out the possibility that the military operation in iraq could be expanded. he was pressed on that a number of times. what happens if isis, if those extremist forces aren't deterred by these initial air strikes? would the president be open to expanding the military operation? the response we got from josh earnest was, quote, those kinds of decisions are evaluated regularly. so they're going to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis as president obama continues to monitor the situation there in iraq. the other big topic of discussion during the briefing was one you all were just talking about. why intervene in iraq? why now? why not, for example, go into syria when you have a humanitarian crisis there? the answer we got from earnest

was, one, that government of iraq asked for u.s. intervention. that's a very different situation than what you have in syria. and number two, there are clear targets. in other words, the u.s. sees a clear path to actually achieve progress in iraq, whereas in syria, it wasn't clear who were the good guys, who were the bad guys. so there was a lot of confusion about how intervention could actually help, where it would help. having said that, you have more than 170,000 people in syria who have been killed, reportedly at the hands of the assad regime. so this is something that the administration is going to continue to have to answer for why they are intervening in iraq right now. the answer, of course, as president obama laid out last night, was to protect u.s. interests there. the u.s. has a consulate in erbil. of course, to stop a potential genocide with those 40,000 religious minorities who are trapped on that mountainside.

the strategy, as mapped out by the white house, is to get those people who are stranded off of that mountain, to get them humanitarian aid first, and then hopefully to deter those isis forces enough to allow those religious minorities to leave that mountain. i can tell you that president obama has had a vacation planned, heading to martha's vineyard tomorrow. we're told that vacation is still going to move forward. they say what we traditionally hear from white house, which is that he's able to carry out his responsibilities as commander in chief from any post. his job as the president travel with him. back to you guys. >> thank you, kristen. as you mentioned there, the white house saying there will be a clear path. we have kenneth pollack here. good afternoon. >> hey, ari. >> are we now at war with isis? >> i think technically speaking, the answer is yes. i think the obama administration would probably try to protest that. but i think that the reality is

that the u.s. is engaged in combat with isis. i certainly suspect isis believes that. >> ken, let's talk about the interplay of our policy in iraq and our policy in syria. was isis, in fact, emboldened by the fact that the president drew that now infamous rhetorical red line and then did not follow through once that red line was crossed? >> yeah, obviously, krystal, it's a great question, but we don't know the answer to that. we don't have enough of an insight into isis' decision making. it's been a problem that we've had all along. it's why we got so wrong footed, why everyone was so surprised when we had this massive isis invasion of iraq back in june. we really don't know what they're up to. of course, they took everyone by surprise again this week when they suddenly shifted their forces from pushing south toward baghdad and launched this new round of assaults northward into kurdish territory. so we have to remember that isis is a very dangerous adversary. they're quite good at what they do. we really don't know what's

going on in their collective minds. >> what we just heard from kristen welker, the administration is saying what's different this time around is we have a clear target. that being isis. but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier on us. it's not going to mean it's one round of air strikes either. we're already hearing another round of air strikes. isis is incredibly capable. they have the money. they have means here, not to mention they're very difficult to target because they blend in with civilians. is there a diplomatic solution to this? >> no. unfortunately, there is not, abby. we've got to recognize that there should be a political solution. that's absolutely critical. and it gets back to what myself and a lot of people and ultimately what the obama administration is trying to do, which is to forge a new government in iraq. one that the sunni population can buy into, one which the kurds will at least be content with, one which the vast majority of the shia will also be happy with to get a unified iraqi force moving north so we don't just have shia militias battling sunni militias.

that is absolutely critical. if we can get that kind of a new political solution, then we can start to look at some of the military equations. of course, the military equations will be a lot easier to deal with because we'll have some forces on the ground. a unified iraqi military, one that's accepted by all of iraq's communities that perhaps our air force might be able to work with if president obama decided to expand the mission to helping a unified iraqi force move against isis. >> ken, one thung i'm struck by is there is lots of close-range video about isis doing their atrocities in syria and in iraq. they are clearly media savvy and using the media to send that message about how bad they are. >> absolutely. they understand the power of intimidation. let's remember, this is a relatively small force. when they came into iraq, it was believed they came in with about 800 to 1,000 guys. they linked up with several thousand other isis men already inside of iraq. and of course, since then, they've first of all teamed up

with a variety of other sunni militant groups and also some iraqi sunni tribes who hate prime minister maliki more than they hate ie sis. and since isis has been recruiting new people. even still, it's a relatively small force. they have been using very good intelligence, very good planning to catch people by surprise. some devastating attacks and good tactics and this power of intimidation as a force multiplier, to make this relatively small force a lot more potent than it otherwise would be. >> yeah, and that force obviously multiplying around the world right now as everyone watches here as we're reporting these second attacks against aye cyst. kenneth, thank you very much. up next, the politics of all this back here at home. we have reaction from all corners. stay with us. i had no idea i had shingles. there was like an eruption on my skin and burning. i'd lift my arm and the pain back here was excruciating. when i went to the doctor his first question was "did you have chickenpox?"

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now to the politics of iraq. lawmakers are on recess, but they are still sounding off on the air strikes. speaker john boehner among the

republican voices calling air strikes appropriate but also slamming the president for not having a long-term strategy for countering isis. senator rubio just out with an op-ed calling on the president to dig in for a fight. meanwhile, senate majority leader harry reid praising the president's choice to air drop supplies to refugees, but also calling on obama to stand by his pledge for no boots on the ground. for a sense of how this is playing in d.c. and with constituents back at home, we're joined by democratic congressman from vermont, peter welsh. congressman, if you could just start by telling us, we're back in iraq with air strikes. what are you hearing from constituents there in vermont? >> the reality is very little. the american people get it. that's certainly true in my district. they saw what happened in syria. then we had the collapse of baghdad. now we have very serious situation up in the kurdish

area. but they believe that there's not an american military solution for this conflict that has been metastasizing for a long time. so it's not on people's minds. i've been to several country fairs. the one question people repeatedly ask me is, what is going on with congress that we can't get anything done? but i haven't had people saying, hey, what are you going to do about what's going on in kurdistan? >> but some people are concerned about that. i know, congressman, that every district is different. but let's try to get the mood of a lot or most of your colleagues. would they rather be home if they're running for office, would they rather be home saying, we will not get dragged into another iraq war or we must go over there and stop the islamic state before they come here? >> well, you know, there's no member of congress who's running on a pro-war platform, including the folks who are most vociferous critics of the president. he becomes a punching back. what happens in syria, they

blame him. what happens in baghdad, they blame him. that goes on. he's just a convenient way for them to basically criticize obama and criticizing obama works for some of them in their districts. but you don't hear them really saying that we should put boots on the ground, that we should do what george bush did. you know, reinvade iraq or do nation building. that's the tough situation here because there's a lot of support for, i think, the president's plan to provide some humanitarian assistance and avert a genocide. it makes sense, obviously, for the commander in chief to take appropriate military action if that's required to protect our embassy personnel. and working closely with kurdistan, by the way, is the best way to achieve the humanitarian goal of saving the yazidis because the peshmerga can provide a safe quarter. so those make sense, but they're not things that people here in vermont are talking about. they're much more concerned about college affordability, the

economy, income -- getting incomes up. that's where i think the american people are, certainly where folks in vermont are. >> congressman, thank you so much as always. for more on the political reaction, we bring in the senior editor for the new republic. also, msnbc contributor and executive editor of bluenationreview.com, jimmy williams. brian, as the congressman was saying there, we're not really hearing politicians yet calling for boots on the ground. but we are hearing the president's critics, john boehner and marco rubio in particular, saying we need a strategy. marco rubio saying we need to dig in for a long fight. are you starting to hear the drum beats of war coming from washington? >> not really, actually. no, i do want to associate myself with a lot of what congressman welch said. a lot of the crisscrossing, inconsistent views you hear from members of congress about what should happen, what the united states should do in iraq now is

very much at odds with where the american public is at large. there's still a very large residual weariness about american military involvement in iraq in particular, but in any country. that sort of subsumes these congressman calls for doing more. it doesn't really resonate. >> jimmy, we just got a report from kristen welker at the white house. i, for one, was expecting her to say president obama has actually decided to cancel his trip to martha's vineyard where he's going to be spending most of the the month of august. you could now say we are in war mode. if there was ever a time to hunker down at the white house and cancel a trip, it would be now. >> well, look, you can operate a war with one of these things. >> isn't it more also about sending a message as well to the american people and to the troops? >> listen, democrats are going to support the president. republicans are already criticizing him for not doing enough. at the end of the day, he's going to have to spend the rest of his last two years in office

doing anything he can to make democrats happy and the republicans won't ever be happy, so that's the world we live in. the president should not stop his vacation. george bush didn't stop his vacation in crawford, texas, when he declared war. secondly, he deserves a break, for god's sake. i take that back. i'm going to -- >> he deserves a break right now? >> i'll tell you why i'm going to recant it. he hasn't actually been able to sign a whole lot of bills into law lately because congress hasn't been doing anything. so i recant that. he's pretty rested at this point. >> well, you mentioned bush. may not be the most important layer of this, but there's no question that criticisms of bush did include his travel schedule. michael moore famously captured the moment of golfing while talking about iraq. these are fair questions for a commander in chief if we are, indeed, going back into this conflict in a deeper way. although, you're certainly right on substance, jimmy. the oval office travels with the

president. we all know that, anyone who's covered the president or been on that plane knows that. i think these questions have to come up. they're part of the politics. this is our politics segment. my other question for you, jimmy, on politics of iraq here, how did we get here? how did we build so much opposition as brian was just mentioning? how did we have an anti-war can dot who won, telling us we don't want to be entangled in iraq? yet, stands up last night and tells the nation for good reasons that he outlined and we've been reporting on, we're not done. this iraq story is not done, even as we have higher opposition to this kind of intervention than at any point in the last decade. >> two points. the first one is that barack obama was elected twice by 10 million people, more than john mccain and by 5 million people more than mitt romney to lead the country. the american people did that knowingly and willingly and wantingly. secondly and most importantly, the fact that sometimes when you elect people to lead, they actually do that and you may not agree with them. i don't personally want troops

on the ground. i don't know that we're going to put troops on the ground. you can -- listen, when bill clinton was president, put a lot of troops on the ground in wars we didn't declare as wars. the republicans would call him on that. there were also humanitarian crises happening in those instances as well. so the bottom line is the president can do this. he drops a few bombs. there is a great irony here. this is something that shouldn't be lost on anyone. the chances of us actually dropping bombs on our own equipment that we left behind, that should not be lost on anybody. that's a rich irony. our colleague at cnbc wrote a piece about that this morning that everybody should look at. think about that. we're going to use our current bombers to bomb our own tanks. that's interesting. we should not lose sight of the fact that we left that stuff behind. >> very interesting point. brian, last to you, last night when the president was speaking and talking about genocide and intervening to prevent genocide, i said, this sounds a lot like the influence of samantha power.

>> oh, yeah. i think it definitely does. it creates a sort of, you know, messaging problem for him in that you could apply the logic that he used last night to other conflicts around the world where we did not, you know, use military power to intervene. but what's going on in iraq now is sort of much more limited. it kind of reflects on obama doctrine of take limited action, do what you can, but be realistic about what american power can accomplish. i don't think that the white house at this point is focusing too much on the seeming conflict between what he's doing here and what he did in the past, for instance, in syria. and more on just trying to prevent, you know, allies in kurdistan from falling to isis. >> brian and jimmy, thank you both. and up next, just who are the yizidis trapped on that mountain top? our special breaking news hour continues next.

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more breaking news. this time in the pacific. hawaii is in the midst of tropical storm iselle and bracing for a one-two punch. a second and stronger storm, a category 3 hurricane julio right behind it. iselle is the second tropical storm to hit the big island in 22 years. 25,000 people are without power, and the island is also in danger of mud slides and flash flooding. and the humanitarian crisis in gaza grows worse as fighting resumes now that the 72-hour cease-fire is over. the u.n. is urging both sides to stop military advancements and get back to the bargaining table. israel refuses to negotiate under fire. just minutes after the broken truce, rockets were fired into israel by gaza militants. retaliation air strikes into gaza saw the death of even more civilians. turning back to our breaking iraq coverage now. who are the yazidis? those ten of thousands of people trapped on sinjar mountain, to whom we are air dropping tens of

thousands of gallons of water and ready to eat meals. they can come down from the mountain and be executed or stay. who are these people, and why have they been forced to flee for their lives? so the yazidis are people who helped us as interpreters during the iraq war. are we helping them because of their loyalty to us or because we should step in whenever we see genocide and can help? >> i think it's a combination of things. the way you ask the question is very appropriate. they did indeed help us a lot during iraq war because saddam hussein hated them and treated them very badly. in fact, exiled them from their ancestral home to another part of iraq. but one of the main reasons i think why we're helping them now is because they're a very, very unique community. they're under threat of complete destruction because isis has

gi given them a choice. isis has said, convert to islam or we'll kill you. >> we're hearing some reports they're being treated eastbound more harshly than the christian minority in iraq and are not even being given that option of, you can convert or you can die. they're just being faced with slaughter. help us understand a bit more about the yazidis, about their faith, and why this actually isn't the first time that they've been subject to persecution in the region. >> yeah, that's an excellent question. it has a lot to do with the yazidi's religious beliefs, their adherence of a very ancient and unique religion, which has been maligned by a lot of people in the region as devil worship. they're not devil worshippers. they don't believe in heaven or hell. they do believe in one god. they believe that this god has manifested on our earth in seven angels. the lead angel, the peacock angel, once disobeyed god when god gave hum an order.

for that reason, this particular angel is associated in the eyes of the other religions as -- with seau tatan. but it's not satan. it was just an angel forgiven by god. this has led to a whole campaign against yazidis over the centuries, that they are devil worshippers. they're really not. and particularly isis with its very, very rigid view of fundamentalist islam believes that they are not just people who believe a different religion but people who actively worship the devil. and that's one of the reasons why these fundamentists have singled them out for such horrible treatment. >> you say singled them out. when we turn from the religious piece here to isis itself, what is your view of their sort of hierarchy of antipathy or religious bigotry here towards the different groups in the region? >> well, that's an excellent question. it's quite clear that they have intense hatred towards all other religions. they've treated the christians

of northern iraq who also represent some very, very unique and ancient and rich traditions, which i've also written about because i've been absolutely fascinated by the churches of mosul and the other places around there. so they hate the christians a lot, but they do regard the christians at least potentially as peoples of the book, people who come from the same core beliefs. so theoretically, as you mention earlier, a christian could convert to islam and escape punishment. they've taken over churches. they've taken down crosses, but they haven't actually destroyed churches yet, which is small consolation to the people, the christian population who have been driven out of their homes. but in the case of yazidis, it's really a question of if we can get you, we're going to kill you. >> right. so they are treating them differently when you compare yazidis to how they're treating the christian iraqis. seems like for the christians, they're at least giving them the option of, well, you can convert, and if you do, you'll

be fined or kill. are they in a better position, you would say? >> yeah, the christians are in a marginally better position because there hasn't been -- at least i haven't heard any accounts of the -- >> i think back in 2003 christians were maybe 5% of the population. they've fled since then. not a clear sense of how many are still there. >> they were 5% of the total population of iraq. but the christians of iraq were overwhelmingly concentrated in mosul in the northern part of iraq where isis now has control. >> christian carl, thank you very much. up next, if you're feeling déjà vu, you're not alone. the libyan comparison to what's happening today. no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem.

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and now to a historical comparison. to listen to the president last night, there were some clear similarities to what he said before we intervened in another conflict, that one in libya. >> today i authorized two operations in iraq. targeted air strikes to protect our american personnel and a humanitarian effort to help save thousands of iraqi civilians who are trapped on a mountain. >> today i authorized the armed forces of the united states to begin a limited military action in libya in support of an international effort to protect libyan civilians. >> we can act carefully and

responsibly to prevent an act of genocide. that's what we're doing on that mountain. >> we're answering the call of a threatened people, and we're acting in the interests of the united states and the the world. >> american combat troops will not be returning to fight in iraq. we will not -- i repeat, we will not deploy any u.s. troops on the ground. >> a lot of similarities there. the administration touted the success of the strikes after the ouster of gadhafi but libya spiralled back into chaos. joining us to discuss the comparison is tom sanderson, trans national threats. the president's words and motives similar here but is it fair to compare the two? >> i think quite a few differences. of course the -- part of a nato led effort and u.k. and french-led effort that had a u.n. sanction behind it. and those strikes of course

expanded very significantly. we had u.s. navy ships and submarines emptying magazines of cruise missiles to strike targets in labo libya. we're starting off small and not fighting the government. we're there to support a government in addition to protecting our own diplomats and military forces. there are differences here. the similarities are things we don't want to see, a country that is in chaos. we would not want to see most likely the same number of strikes we did in libya because they added up very significantly, both in cost and duration. and i think that would begin the slippery slope that people are talking about right now as far as u.s. involvement. >> in libya, we were backed up by our nato allies. here in iraq thus far, we're acting unilaterally to back up at the request of the iraqi

government. do you expect there to be any bringing in either of nato or regional arab allies. >> at this point definitely not. nato countries are extremely loathed to get involved as we are or many people in the united states are. i would be very surprised to see that. of course the stranger bedfellow the potential for the iranians to get involved at some point. they have their own red line for what they see is necessary to bring them into the battle. i'm not saying we would coordinate with them in the way we coordinated with france and u.k. but there is a different mix of interested parties here and it is a lot different than what we saw in libya. >> here we would be supporting a government against insurgents but there is one key similarity, dan hodges, a great british journalist writes the only thing

worse is the u.s. not acting as the woshld's policeman. if we don't do anything, who else will? >> to answer your question, it would be iranians, if the advance by isis is significant enough, what that line is, we don't know. moving on karbala, baghdad, could this bring in a whole cell commitment of iranian forces? at some point it does because iran does not want extremist sunni group to dismember iraq and to establish control of the capital. which of course would then begin to upset the balance of power in the region. at some point you'll see that activi activity. preceding that you would see greater support for the shia militias inside iraq as well as a greater influx of shiite fighters around the world in parallel to seeing sunni fighters around the world come into this battle space. >> tom, that does seem an important difference in libya, our nato allies backed us up but

there was a geographic distance there. here you're talking about folks in the region who have the capability and potentially the insen tif to act who will be around for a long time in the neighborhood and have an interest in maintaining the stability there. >> no doubt about it, libya's neighbors are different than iraq's neighbors. have egypt next door to libya was significant but they weren't involved in any significant way. the jordanians and turks in the gulf in large part are so we have a volatile mix of countries here. you have great tension between that mix of countries that are present. we're dealing with a more difficult situation here and i think we're clearly tip toeing into this engagement for many, many reasons. one of which is the balance of power between sunnis and shia in the region. >> tom, most importantly, how does this get resolved? >> that's a very difficult question.

good to finish with an easy question. i don't know. isis has a full head of steam. they've been able to defeat iraqi forces and they have very reluctantly engaging they will and shia militias have not proven themselves. they've learned a lot of lessons from their battles in syria and lot of lessons from tribal negotiations in iraq. i think they are very strategic and i think they will do smart things and it will be a problem for many years to come. >> it could be a long road ahead. thank you for being with us. >> you're welcome. we'll be back with a final word right after this. e the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. so let's do it.

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all right, that does it for "the cycle", coverage of the breaking situation in iraq continues now with alex wagner. limited and not prolonged, lts american military is back in iraq. it is friday, august 8th and this is "now", live from washington, d.c. >> the air war between isis and the u.s. has begun. >> president obama and his national security team are now in crisis mode. >> directed our military to take targeted strikes against isill terrorist convoys. >> if isis is allowed to advance any more towards erbil, it could

put the city at risk and that puts our people at risk. >> the kurds lose erbil, they lose -- >> grotesque targeted acts of violence show all of the warning signs of genocide. >> for anyone who needed a wake-up call, this is it. >> how do you keep isis from extending further. >> he's been dragged into this, doesn't want to do it. >> where are the allies? >> america is coming to help. >> two years, seven months and 21 days since the u.s. withdrew its troops after nearly nine years of war. american war planes are once again striking inside iraq. u.s. officials tell nbc news a second round of air strikes were launched in the kurdish city