hey there, everyone, just about noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." the president speaking just a short time ago about the u.s. air strikes in iraq. >> we're not moving our embassy any time soon. we're not leaving our consulate any time soon. that means that given the challenging security environment, we're going to maintain vigilance and ensure that our people are safe. >> the president's comments come just a day after the u.s. began targeted air strikes in iraq against hard-line militants near the city of erbil. early this morning, u.s. military carried out a second air drop of food and water for thousands of refugees trapped. >> we feel confident that we can prevent isil from going up a mountain and slaughtering the

people who are there, but the next step, which is going to be complicated logistically, is how do we give safe passage for people down from the mountain and where can we ultimately relocate them so that they are safe. >> nbc's jim miklaszewski is at the pentagon for us. and kristen welker is at the white house. is the president saying anything about a time line in iraq? >> i think that was one of the headlines out of president obama's remarks. he essentially laid the groundwork for what could be an open-ended military engagement, albeit a limited engagement in iraq. he said this could be a long-term project. take a listen at a little bit most a more of what he had to say. >> i don't think we can solve this problem in weeks, if that's what you mean. the iraqi security forces, in order to mount an offensive and be able to operate effectively

with the supportive populations in sunni areas are going to have to revamp, get resupplied, have a clear strategy. but this is going to be a long-term project. >> the president also said that plans are coming together to determine how to get those ethnic minorities off of the mountain. in the meantime, he is going to be reaping out to his allies to get their support, their help, with the humanitarian part of this mission. you heard the president say he spoke with prime minister david cameron. he spoke with president hollande of france, and that they gave assurances to the united states that they'll help with the humanitarian mission. i'm told in the coming days from martha's vineyard, the president will be making a series of phone calls to his allies to get more assurances to help those 40,000 people who are trapped on top of that mountain. the other significant thing that came out of the president's comments, alex, you heard him acknowledge that u.s. intelligence didn't anticipate just how quickly these militant

forces would advance, would advance toward erbil, which is of course where the united states has its consulate. this decision to take action really came together in the past few days, as the united states realized that the situation was reaching a crisis point in iraq. alex. >> okay, kristen welker at the white house, well said, thank you for that. joining me with more, nbc news pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. what is the pentagon saying about the effectiveness of the air strikes so far? >> there were only three air strikes yesterday. the first salvo of those air strikes by f/a-18s and armed predator drones against three isis military targets. and they appeared to have set them back at least momentarily. according to military officials, it's pretty much all quiet there on outskirts of erbil where the isis militants had been launching at least some mortar and artillery strikes at the

kurdish peshmerga troops in that region. one of the key reasons that the u.s. military entered this operation to begin with to protect those kurdish forces and to keep erbil from falling into the hands of isis, but so far today, there has been no activity, no u.s. military air strikes, as of about an hour ago, as far as we know. so it appears that after those first three air strikes, they're at least regrouping to figure out, okay, how can we avoid that in the future. nobody thinks that isis is going away any time soon, alex. >> i'm curious, jim, about the mood there in the pentagon around you, about the u.s. and our forces once again being engaged in iraq to this degree. this is a place that have defined and shaped so many of their military careers. >> but, you know, you get a sense from the military leadership here this latest mission was also absolutely necessary. not just for the benefit to help

those refugees stranded on the mountain, but, you know, the strategic disaster that would have resulted if, in fact, the isis rebels were able to take erbil and essentially drive the peshmerga, one of the best fighting, best organized military forces in that region, to drive them out of that city, was incalculable according to a lot of military officials. as one military told me at the beginning of this, we will not let erbil fall. because there was a feeling if erbil fell, it wouldn't be long before that isis would spread its influence even further than it already has. after all, they're influencing now from just north of baghdad all the way up to and across the middle section of syria and it

was just this past week that isis was launching attacks in lebanon. there's a very deep concern here that isis has to be contained, has to be stopped, and their advances reversed as quickly as possible. very quickly too, about the president's suggestion that they could try to open up some kind of safe corridor to leave those trapped refugees off that mountain top, it would definitely, according to folks we're talking to, definitely require some kind of boots on the ground. nobody's suggesting it would be u.s. boots on the ground. as we heard, the president's been talking to the british and the french, and it may even be iraqi boots on the ground for that matter. this is a complicated operation, as was foreseen in the beginning, so it would take some time to put together and it's not likely we'll see anything like that any time soon. >> thank you very much. appreciate that. on the heels of that, let me

bring in former u.s. ambassador to morocco mark ginsburg. react to what mick was saying right there, that it's going to take some boots on the ground, not necessarily the united states, let's be very clear about that, but when you've got to get thousands of refugees off the top of this mountain, how will you do it without that sort of aid? >> i agree, i think mick has it right. the peshmerga is the one military force that is closest to these people, and -- but they don't have the armaments they need in order to fight their way through the isis lines. and so the question is, is the united states going to finally, and the iraqi government, going to provide the peshmerga the type of military equipment they need in order to stand up to the isis forces? that's been the problem. that's why they were routed from these villages, is because the isis forces have the captured iraqi/america military equipment and the peshmerga don't have armored military carriers and tanks. >> before the president took off for martha's vineyard, he was

asked directly whether the u.s. goal is to destroy isis or contain it, but he didn't answer. in your mind, what is realistic? >> look, i disagree with the way the president and the white house is approaching it. it's somehow tying political changes in baghdad to getting rid of isis. isis, as mick just said, is a threat to lebanon. there have already been confrontations there. after all, it is based in syria, not in iraq. number three, it poses a major threat to jordan. the strategy has to be to destroy isis in and of itself. the fact this white house seems to be coaxing political change in baghdad as a price to deal with isis to me is the wrong strategy and i do not understand why the administration is waiting until the last minute to come up with an isis strategy. >> you're thinking the president should have acted sooner here? >> of course, because we understood that isis posed a threat. any of us who have been watching this for the last several months understood that mr. al bagdaty,

who is the leader of isis, has been able to coalesce all these forces. it's not just the sunnis. there's been an avalanche of fighters from true nish sha, morocco, libya, coming in to join his forces. it's not merely a question of the united states, alex. there are turkey and israel, jordan, saudi arabia and others have a stake in defeating isis. >> but is there the political will within this country, mark, to do that? we've even heard, you know, push back for the president acting on a humanitarian basis to protect the u.s. consulate and neighboring interests in erbil there. do you think the american people would say, would agree with you and say we've got to go in and get rid of isis here? >> i'll say two things to that. mr. al bag daty was held by the united states briefly in '04. he was released. he said to the commander who released him, "i will see you in new york."

number one. number two, the fbi and the counterterrorism officials of this white house have claimed that isis pose a direct military and security threat to the homeland of the united states. there has been an isis jihadi-american who went to syria, returned to the united states and went back again. god knows how many more of them are there out there. the fact of the matter is this is not an issue of putting boots on the ground. the president, after all, has been using drone strikes in yemen and pakistan for years and in afghanistan for years. why is that any different than what we should be doing in northern iraq and northern syria? >> define direct threat. to what extent to do you think new york or anywhere else is really under threat from isis? >> all you have to do is look at the social media being put out by isis in which they're declaring their intent to attack cities in the united states and they have the capacity, sooner rather than later, to accomplish that goal if they have a base of operations that constitutes this

islamic caliphate. >> what do you think the president's options are now? how long do you think he's going to continue with targeted air strikes? >> the american people have no stomach for boots on the ground. i share it. let's rearm the peshmerga. let's make sure we use the air force and our drones to be able to disrupt isis. let's also get the qataris to stop funding isis, which has been a real problem. number four, there are countries in the region that need to reach a coalition with the united states. turkey, jordan, saudi arabia. they have forces. there's no reason why the united states cannot exercise leadership to try to get them to combat isis in both syria and iraq. after all, we all have a common interest in seeing isis destroyed. >> for your experience as an ambassador, what would be going on in erbil? what would you tell the diplomats assembled in that office? >> the most important thing is american nationals. they're obviously in kurdistan. a significant number of american businessmen, as well as relief workers who have been working in

that region. first priority, any ambassador, would be the protection of american nationals. number two, we have this joint command center in erbil which the united states established after isis began moving into northern iraq. and these individuals who are in effect our intelligence and military advisers to the iraqi and the kurdish forces are clearly important for protection. remember, most importantly, it's the intelligence that we need about isis from that consulate. >> we've heard that isis is about 20 miles or so outside of erbil right now. if the president is bringing in targeted air strike, to go after them, in those locations, why not just evacuate the consulate now? >> first of all, because i don't think the consulate needs to be evacuated. there's not been a direct threat, number one. number two, if we evacuate that consulate, it's going to be a clear indication that we're turning our back on the kurds, which is something the administration doesn't want to

do. i don't think the president's going to play any games here. i'm sure that if there was a direct threat to the american diplomats and to the joint command military officials there, he would evacuate them. >> okay. former u.s. ambassador mark ginsburg, thank you. other news, washington, d.c. police are now investigating the death of former white house press secretary james brady now that it has been ruled a homicide. brady died monday at the age of 73 as a result of injuries when he was shot in the head during the assassination attempt on president reagan. officials admit murder charges against hinckley are theoretically possible. but a long way from making decisions. jerry brown's turning over a parole board's decision to release one of charles manson's followers. he's served 43 years in prison for his role. this was the third time the california governor has refused to release davis. 127 high school students in

new york feeling cheated out of a summer vacation this year after the state is requiring them to retake a regent exam. the results were lost by a courier service before they could be graded. let's go from there now to weather. hawaii residents are cleaning up damage caused by tropical storm iselle and they're closely tracking the approach of hurricane julio. >> we are keeping close tabs on julio. now that iselle is pretty much done with, we are keeping a very close eye on julio. here is julio. it's continuing to push off to the west-northwest. as its approaching hawaii on the east-facing shores on the big island and maui. it's still a category 2 hurricane moving near 60 miles

per hour. here's a look at julio's forecast track. you can see the forecast models still have the system. the islands of oahu see tropical storm force conditions. we have to keep a very close eye on this forecast track. it still could change. we will certainly do just that. in the east, it's a beautiful start to the weekend. high temperatures on the seasonable side. humanity not all that bad. in the southeast, we expect to see some thunderstorms, especially in the afternoon. any thunderstorms around georgia, carolinas, could produce some heavy thunderstorms, so flash flooding could be a concern. it's hot and steamy in texas. dallas and san antonio, there is the threat for severe thunderstorms, especially in the afternoon. nebraska and kansas, thunderstorms there could produce some isolated hail.

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today with the crash of artillery from both sides, the conflict in gaza enters its second month. israeli officials say they launched attacks on 30 targets today while hamas has fired 11 rockets. the death toll in gaza has surpassed another grim milestone. more than 1,900 dead. joining me is the chief spokesman for prime minister benjamin netanyahu. thank you for joining me. >> my pleasure. >> as soon as the cease-fire ended on friday, the fighting kicked back up again.

is any progress being made to resume the cease-fire? >> well, the cease-fire didn't end. the truth is, israel was willing to have it extended. but hamas broke the cease-fire. it was supposed to end at 8:00 a.m. friday morning. they already opened up fire on us at 4:30 in the morning. that must have been nice for the people on the southern frontier in israel to be woken up by mortar shells fired by terrorists in gaza. they announced they weren't going to extend the cease-fire and opened up a barrage of rockets, targeting our people. so hamas is responsible for the fact that fighting continues. they are -- must be held accountable for the continuation of the blood shed. >> mark, has anything changed in the last month in terms of positions on both sides, or have both seemingly become more entrenched in their goals? >> you know, our goal is ultimately only defensive.

and that's why we've stood with our goal. it's to end the rocket fire from gaza on our cities. and as you know, there's been close to 3,500 rockets fired at israeli cities over the last month. and of course to end the tunnels. there were those terror tunnels that were dug under our frontier. so death squads would come out and kill people on our side of the frontier. our goal is to stop those two things. it's once again to protect our people. now, hamas' goals, you just have to read their charter. they believe the jewish state should be destroyed. so there's this lack of balance between the goals. we want to be left alone. and hamas' goals basically say the jewish state should be destroyed. >> can you give us a guesstimate on how much more there is to do to achieve your goals? what percentage of the tunnels have been destroyed? and if you've had 3,500 rockets fired your way, do you know how many more are in hamas' arsenal? >> on the first part of your

question, weem 've destroyed al the tunnels we know about. we destroyed all the tunnels we knew existed and we're not aware of any tunnels left. on the issue of the rockets, they started this conflict with somewhere around 9,000 rockets. we've destroyed a lot in operations. as we see today with their continuing to shoot into israel, they still have a residual capacity. this is why it's important, when this is over, and we talk about the end game, that we have to talk about making sure that hamas can't rearm. because if hamas with the help of iran and other extremists is able to replenish its stockpiles of weapons, then we'll be back to square one and we'll have to revisit this again in six months, in a year. that does no good for the people of israel. that's no good for anyone. >> i want to pick up on the end game there. because in a new interview today, as you know, the president was asked about the possibility of a peace deal. here's what he said, quote, it

is going to require leadership among the palestinians and israelis to look beyond tomorrow and that's the hardest thing for politicians to do, to take the long view on things. so what is prime minister netanyahu's long-term plan for the palestinians? what does he want your region to look like in say, 10, 20 years? >> well, he wants peace. he's publicly articulated a goal of two states for two peoples. a demilitarized palestinian state. recognizes the jewish state. then we can have live and let live. now, unfortunately, hamas is very violent and extreme. hamas is in the same political family as isis in iraq. they are ruthless. they are callous. they are extreme islamists. they have no qualms whatsoever about using violence to advance their radical agenda. >> how concerned are you that coming back with that type of

mentality will only further radicalize and further put israeli citizens in harm's way? >> i know a lot of people say that but, in fact, the opposite could well be true, alex. today, hamas is isolated in the arab world. "the new york times" wrote a piece about that a few weeks ago. even in gaza, we saw polling that support for continuing the cease-fire amongst gaza civilians is over 90%. so hamas is basically hijacked the people of gaza to its very extremest fundamentalist agenda. the people of gaza deserve better. there's no reason why israel and gaza can't have a good relationship. the problem is hamas. which ultimately sack ra figss sacrifices the interests of the people of gaza on it's extreme radical agenda. >> it's good to speak with you. thank you so much. i'm sure we'll be speaking

again. the u.s., with new strikes at the militant group isis, but how big of a bombing campaign might be it? we're going to get military perspective. does the american public have an appetite for more conflict in iraq? [ female announcer ] this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather? a mouth breather! [ whimpers ] how do you sleep like that? well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and do the one thing you want to do -- sleep. add breathe right to your allergy medicine. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. add breathe right to your allergy medicine. virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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short time ago about air strikes in iraq. >> so far, these strikes have successfully destroyed arms and equipment that isil terrorists could have used against erbil. kurdish forces on the ground continue to defend the city and the united states and the iraqi government has stepped up our military assistance to kurdish forces. >> nbc's keyiir simmons is on t ground in iraq. what are you seeing? >> we just arrived in erbil, and it's pretty stunning actually. it is just the relationshipies who the refugees who have flooded here, terrified. these are christian refugees. this is a small sect of

christianity who have been told if they don't flee or if they don't convert to islam, then they will be killed. so you can imagine, we are standing here, surrounded by thousands of families. people are putting out -- to sleep outside, carrying children. there are grandparents, children. we spoke to one family who just got here today. a mother with three of her children. one just 10 months old. who says her husband didn't make it with her and they don't know where he is. they are frightened. they are worried. the people when president obama talks about a people being -- potentially genocide, these are the people. >> what strikes me is it's as if these people have gone, you know, from the frying pan into the fire kind of thing. are folks aware that isis

militants are reportedly within some 20 miles around erbil? i mean, it's not exactly safe there, if that's the place to which they're fleeing. >> yeah, you make a good point. i guess they don't really have anywhere else to go. they've already left their homes. you can see -- you can see they're here with just the things they could carry. so they have no choice. they are a big community. but remember, this is the group, the community, some of whom are stuck, you know, mountain, unable to get away, tens of thousands reported there. so these people are the lucky ones that managed to get to erbil and i guess, if they feel that isis is bearing down substantially on the city, enough, then they will flee here as well. >> do you get a sense that

everyone there knows about the u.s. air strikes that have taken place yesterday nearby? and what's the reaction? >> they definitely do, alex. people are coming up to me to try to talk to me about it. they say thank you, president obama. they say thank you for what they see as a support for them. at the same time, they say, can you do more? and people are going to scratch their heads at this, but they say, we want america to send troops. we want america to put boots on the ground. because they say they are worried. the military here, the kurds, and the iraqi military, they don't -- they worry that those forces don't have the strength. and of course alex, we will see, because those air strikes do have the potential to do real damage to isis and change the

psychological theme. a lot of this is about fear, about how frightened people are of isis. there's been a tipping point. that the odds are now stacked against isis buy those military strikes. that may change things. right now, people are saying two things. they're saying thank you, america, and they're saying, please do more. >> okay. nbc's keir simmons, i know we'll hear from you again, thank you so much from erbil. the fighting in gaza certainly continues. ten palestinians have been killed in air strikes since the cease-fire broke yesterday. the death toll now, 1900. hamas' barrage of rockets has been nearly unabated. 68 since friday. joining me, our guest who previously serves as spokesperson for the palestinian organization. at this point, are the talkings in cairo just a face siilitatora

brief cease-fire or do you expect more from them? >> well, unfortunately, i think that there isn't going to be a cease-fire any time soon. i think the reason is there's a lack of international leadership to pressure israel to implement basic human rights, meaning the opening up of the gaza strip and the ending of this illegal blockade that's been placed on the gaza strip for more than seven years. given that there's no international leadership at this point in time, we're left with the situation where the palestinians, who are the more weaker party are trying to negotiate with a much more powerful party without anybody stepping in and putting pressure on israel to demand that basic human rights be implemented. >> barring the lifting of the sanctions, if you will, what would it take for hamas to stop firing rockets in the immediate term?

>> well, they've made what their conditions are very clear. it's not just hamas, it's all of the palestinian factions who have come together and who have said that in order for this to be a comprehensive cease-fire, we need to start getting to the root causes. and the root cause is the lack of freedom for palestinians. so that means opening up the gaza strip so there's no longer any illegal blockade on it. this blockade has been imposed by air, by sea and by land. they're talking about releasing prisoners who never -- should shouldn't have been arrested in the first place, and they're talking about ending the military action in the gaza strip. these are the conditions that which be the only thing that will work to make sure this cease-fire is able to stick. the problem is israel continues to want to maintain this illegal blockade over the gaza strip. and unfortunately, there's no international pressure that's being brought to bear on israel. so as a result, we're going to continue to see that this is going to happen. whether it's today, whether it's in six months or whether it's in

two years, israel has already said it's going to continue to maintain its bombing campaign over the gaza strip indefinitely. >> does the plo speak with a united voice for all palestinian factions? that would include hamas. or are there concerns hamas has its own agenda and the plo cannot control what their ultimate goals are? >> well, the palestinian factions have actually been quite united when it companies to this issue. they've been united in saying that the only way to move forward is to be able to ensure that basic human rights are being met, and this is why they've come together in terms of one team to really try to push and to try to get these basic issues implemented, these basic human rights implemented. the fact of the matter is, nobody wants to see 448 palestinians killed over the

course of the past month by the israeli army. and the only reason -- the only way we'll be able to actually end this, as if we begin to really look at what the root causes are, and it's the fact that palestinians, whether it's in the west bank or the gaza strip, have been denied their freedom. on that, all the factions are united. when it comes to the basic issues, the basic human rights, they're all united. i'm finding it very surprising that the israelis are being allowed to get away with not even implementing basic human rights in the gaza strip. >> i spoke with mark re ge v a short time ago, the spokesman for israeli prime minister netanyahu. let's listen to this. >> today, hamas is isolated in the arab world. even in gaza, we saw polling that support for continuing the cease-fire with gaza civilians is over 90%, i repeat, 90%.

so hamas has basically hijacked the people of gaza to its extremist fundamentalist agenda. the people of gaza deserve better. ultimately, there's no reason why israel and gaza can't have a good relationship. the problem is hamas. >> what is your response to that? >> well, first, in term, of the cease-fire, palestinians do want to see an end to israel's bombing campaign. but at the same time, 100% of them want to see a lifting of the siege, which is something he con haven'tly ignores. what he talks about is there can be good relationships between gaza and israel, and yet no matter which government has been in place in the gaza strip, israel has always made one excuse or another to place some type of siege, blockade or build settlements, et cetera. they've done the same in the west bank too. the fundamental issue is israel views itself as above the law.

without international leadership, to force israel to respect basic human rights and to force israel to abide by international law, then unfortunately, we're going to continue to see this situation perpetua perpetuate. what is needed is at this point in time international leadership, israel held accountable for its human rights violations and gaza be given its freedom. >> thank you. office politics is next with "time" magazine managing editor nancy gibbs on the two cover stories she's written that stick out most in her mind. [ female announcer ] it's simple physics...

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midterms. >> one thing that strikes me that your poll put a finger on is how much people are just appalled and disgusted with almost the collapse of the political system. it is not the partisan is anything new, it is not that parties have not been, you know, arorrayed against each other forever. but i do think people feel like something feels different about this. the sense of a political system being hijacked by minorities who exercised disproportionate power to their numbers, that is what has people disspirited. for the first time what has historically been true is people hate congress and they love their congressman. which is the reason why you can have, you know, wave after wave, election after election, where the vast majority of incumbents get returned to office, even though you can have the steadily falling approval rating for congress as a whole. >> from what i read, you have

written over 100 articles for the magazine? >> they got to 175 and i think they stopped counting. >> it's going to be hard to pick but what are the ones that stay with you? >> sadly but inevitably 9/11. where so much changed in that morning. and the very, very wise editor of "time" at the time, jim kelly, i was at home and he called me and he said we're investigating whether he can basically crash a special issue of the magazine in a day. and are you prepared to write? and what he said that stayed with me so much was -- he says think of this as a time capsule where you're just capturing what happens today. this was at 10:30 in the morning. the attacks had occurred within two hours.

he said, don't imagine that we're going to know the who the or the why or all of the things that ultimately over time we will learn about what happened. just tell the story of today. because today's going to be a day none of us are ever going to forget. and i sort of asked, okay, so who else, who are the other stories in the package if we're doing a whole issue. he said no, i only want one story. he literally sent every person on the staff, either photographer, every writer, every researcher, go out, go downtown, go everyone in washington around the country. go find out what's happening. i will say the other -- which is the other complete end of the spectrum, was when the editor sent me to scotland to interview j.k. rowling. it was fascinating to hear her talking and to discover, you know, as one hopes with people who are as influential as she is and when you look at the readership that she built, i learned through other people she

would not i think have told me this story about how she had -- she had started i think in the middle of the fourth book. she had started calling this little girl would washo was a hy potter fan and who was being treated for brain cancer and who would come in with a lightning bolt on her forehead and a cloak because she was battling this evil thing as harry did. rowling would call her at night and read chapters of her of the book she was writing which that child never lived to get to read to herself. and i thought, okay, the woman who does that is a woman i, as a parent, trust with the imaginations of our children. and when you realize that a woman who captured so many imaginations, as she did, was worthy of it, and a remarkable way, that was exciting for me as a writer, as an editor, as a

reader. it got me a lot of street cred with my kids. as long as my job was to write stories, my bosses here really didn't care where i was, when i was writing, when i was not. and so that allowed when my girls were little for me to be at home a lot and work around their schedules and have a huge amount of flexibility, which really made the balancing act i think very different. >> tomorrow at this time, nancy and i discuss "time" magazine's place in history and she shares the key to writing a good story. new word from president obama today about the u.s. air strikings in iraq. how did the militant group isis become so powerful so quickly and what is their ultimate goal? . that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink

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plus, now you get up to a $100 prepaid card when you purchase any new verizon wireless smartphone or tablet from comcast. visit comcast.com/wireless to learn more in his new remarks, president obama made the case that the crisis in iraq is not going to be solved quickly by u.s. intervention and he also put the onus on the iraqi people

who are facing the brunt of isis' threat. >> we're already seeing and will see even further the degree to which those territories under isil control isolate, because of the brutality with which they operate. >> joining me, professor of security studies at kings college london and director of the international study for radicalization. with the world that isis wants to create, its caliphate, what is the world they want to create, the laws they want? >> they want to recreation a version of the 7th century. they do believe you have to live exactly as people who were living at the time of the prophet muhammad. so all the things they're doing now, crucifixions, beheadings, et cetera, et cetera, all things they believed were practiced at the time of the prophet

muhammad. that's what they want basically all muslims in the world to live under. >> wow. okay. what do you think the u.s. air strikes are doing for morale, say, among isis, as well as among the travel groups and shiites that might oppose isis? >> i think it's very important that these air strikes are happening. they're dining isis. they're containing isis. they cannot push back isis. the reason why isis has been so successful is because they have a coalition with the tribes in the area. the tribes in those areas have facilitated the rise of isis. and ultimately, therefore, the solution needs to be political. u.s. has to use all its power and influence to get the tribes to support the iraqi government again. it is at that point isis will start losing. >> peter, in his press conference today, president obama was asked if his goal is to contain isis or destroy it and he didn't really answer that question, but can isis be destroyed? is it one of those splinter

groups like al qaeda that cannot fully be eradicateded? >> well, probably you cannot support the ideas behind isis, but it's really important that isis is not allowed to hold territory. because one of the lessons that was learned after 9/11 was that if you allow a terrorist group like the taliban or al qaeda in afghanistan before 9/11 to hold territory it really enhances their operational power. it allows them to do things like 9/11. now we have the same situation again. we've got to get them on the run again, which means we have to deny them territory which gives them the opportunity to have training camps and to operation and to have income. that must be the priority. >> careful observers are surprised at the speed by which isis has gained control and territory. was the fighting capability of this group always evident? >> it wasn't always evidence. now everyone has this 20/20 hindsight going on. very few experts predicted isis

would be as audacious, as successful as they were. it really was the combination of the fact the sunni tribes in iraq were really hating maliki and supported isis if it was to get rid of maliki. at the same time, you were dealing with a group who is powerful, experienced fighters, and they're seizing material, they're seizing money, they're seizing even american weapons. so combination of all of that has created a situation that very few people would have predicted. >> peter, did the genesis of isis really foment more in syria and allowed to grow to what it is today because the united states and the international community did not act sooner? >> well, there is a case to be made, that in 2012, there would have been a sort of window of opportunity to mass inively supt the secular forces that were strong in syria at that point. 2012, let's not forget, was an

election year. neither president obama, nor mitt romney, wanted to commit to another war in the middle east, as it was then portrayed. so neither of the big parties in the u.s. actually made the case for it then. >> all right, peter, come see us again, thank you so much. round two in paradise. what to expect as another hurricane approaches hawaii. i'm j-a-n-e and i have copd. i'm d-a-v-e and i have copd. i'm k-a-t-e and i have copd, but i don't want my breathing problems to get in the way

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phone call to one of his aides. we're a little late getting started with our 1:00 p.m. hour here on east coast. we have break news to share. the president today saying the new air strikes campaign in iraq is going to be a, quote, long-term project, but the president insists there will be no u.s. ground troops. >> i've been very clear that we're not going to have u.s. combat troops in iraq again. we are going to maintain that because we should have learned a lesson from our long and immensely costly incursion in iraq. >> those comments come after u.s. military aircraft carried out a second air drop of food and water for the thousands of refugees stranded in the mountains of northern iraq after fleeing isis militants. nbc's kristen welker is at the white house.

what is the president saying today about iraq and the humanitarian crisis? >> i do think the big headline is what you pointed out at the top, which is president obama essentially prepared the nation for an open-ended military engagement in iraq. he has said it will be limited in scope. no boots on the ground. he said there's essentially no specific time line. this is going to be a long project. he also said that planning is under way to determine exactly how to get those ethnic minorities off of the mountain. take a listen to a little more of what president obama had to say. >> we feel confident that we can prevent isil from going up a mountain and slaughtering the people there. but the next step, which is going to be complicated logistically, is how do we give safe passage for people down from the mountain and where can we ultimately relocate them so that they are safe. >> and while they're in the process of undergoing that

planning, alex, president's reaching out to his allies to get help with the humanitarian part of this mission. the president saying that he spoke with prime minister david cameron and president hollande earlier today, to ask for their assistan assistance, and they did comply. i am told he will reach out to the united states allies to get more help with that humanitarian assistance. of course, there have already been two air drops delivering thousands of prepackaged meals, thousands of gallons of water to those people who are surri isuf so seriously on top of that mountain. he essentially acknowledged that u.s. intelligence had underegs ma underestimated how quickly those isis militant forces could advance in northern iraq and into erbil which is a stronghold and where the u.s. consulate rests. i can tell you we're getting reaction to the president's comments. senator mccain tweeting, the president still doesn't seem to understand the nature of isis

threat to u.s. so that is some of the push back that he's getting as he prepared to begin his vacation on martha's vineyard where i am told and the white house reiterating what we often hear, when he goes on one of these vacations, which is the offers of the presidency travels with him so we'll continue to monitor the situation from there. alex. >> okay, kristen welker at the white house, thanks, kristen. i'm joined by our guest, a terrorism analyst. welcome to you. to what to you atribute everybody, u.s. intelligence and everybody else it seems are underestimating isis' ability to advance and become as powerful as it has become. >> part of it is war weariness. everyone is weary of getting back engaged in iraq. the last war we fought there, we learned, don't fight a land war in easia. we're not learning what might have chakd in the meantime. the biggest problem we face is

we have a reluctance to strike isis where it really counts. i don't think it's in iraq. i don't think it's a mobile artillery piece. if we really want to disable isis and halt their expansion, there's two things we need to do. we need to strike where they're really at, in syria. their headquarters in over the border in syria. we've been reluctant to do that because we don't want to destabilize syria but we have to do something. one of the key issues here is when we beat back isis before, we did it with the assistance of sunni tribesmen, who had been insurgents fighting the u.s. presenc presence, but recognized the u.s. was a more palatable ally than al qaeda was. in baghdad, they've been cracking down on the sunni community, arresting and murdering people there, and basically what happened, it flipped. now the sunnis believe they're better off with isis than they

are with the al maliki government in baghdad. we have to change that calculus back. it cannot be a military solution exclusively. if we're going to make it a military solution, involve our military, we should be striking at targets that matter and that count. i don't think what we've struck so far is really going to make the difference. >> i know that you monitor jihadist websites. what's been the chatter about the air strikes yesterday, just in general the advancement of isis? >> they were expecting this. they thought it was just a matter of time before the u.s. began launching air strikes against them. they've been almost eagerly anticipating it. they believe this is the beginning of their war with the united states. unfortunately, they're sending back the message, now we're going to come after you. i don't thing there's any question they would have done this whether we bombed them or not, that was their objective all along. they understand fully we are their adversary. they are seeking to strike at us

as well. >> so much of the fear has been about the number of foreign fighters who have joined the group. do these air strikes do anything to increase attention on isis? and perhaps thwart their recruitment? >> i don't think so. i think it's just going to pump their recruitment. that's part of the problem. just in the last couple of weeks, we saw a 20-year-old guy from los angeles, a convert to islam, jump on a plane. he actually told the fbi agents this when they asked him this. there's been people from all across the u.s. we just saw this kid from down in florida, south florida, who carried out a suicide bombing on behalf of al qaeda and syria. there's not a lot of people like this. there are enough of them, that if they get training and they come back here and we don't know every single last one of them, who they are yeah, that's a problem. these folks are capable of carrying out a lot of damage. we shouldn't call these guys a jv team or junior team. they're highly experienced. they're highly trained. they fought for two years

against the regime of al shaab which dropped canisters on them. they are really put to the test. in some ways, they're more troublesome and better armed than even al qaeda. >> the last hour when we spoke with peter newman, he talked about how isis' ultimate goal is to revert to the 7th century era, during the time of the prophet muhammad, and revert to that type of society. how do these attacks on christians, their attacks on christians and other minorities play into their goals? >> these folks are fanatics. they're understanding religion is beyond any comprehension of their rules. even al qaeda disagrees with their ideas about christians and others. al qaeda has told isis to stop killing christians like this. it creates bad press for them. and they keep doing it. they are the fanatics of the fanatics. and that's the hope here, is that if they continue on this path of radicalism, where they're trying to enforce

bizarre rules, rules that don't make any sense. they're now giving out 70 lashes to anyone who calls isis by the name isis instead of simply the islamic state. now, isis is their own old name. they chose that name. but if anyone uses that name, they're subject to 70 lashes. these rules don't make any sense. they're not itslamic, they're nt religious, they're garbage. the hope is sunnis will make that realization. look, these guys, we shouldn't be allied with them. they're more trouble than they're worth. it's happened before, but it's going to require diplomacy on the part of the united states and getting rid of the al maliki government in baghdad. >> the years before 9/11, isis was fairly mobile, widespread, yemen, syria, the like. with regard to eye six does it have a web wider than syria and iraq? >> 100% yes. there are individuals affiliated with isis or trained by isis, attempted tore or carried out

terrorist attacks inside a variety of europe countries and now it's stretching into the united states. we talk about this french guy or this -- french guy who went up to belgium and shot up the jewish museum there. when he was arrested, he had the rifle wrapped in the isis flag. you can't get any more clear indication. i can tell you on the basis of the work i do with law enforcement, every single phone call i get these days is a phone call about law enforcement in one country or another who's interested in foreign fighter, going to syria or iraq, to be trained by either al qaeda in syria are else by isis. that is their number one concern. it is across not just this government but governments across europe and governments where you would never think they would have such a concern. norway. switzerland. these are not countries we think of as al qaeda targets. but they're being targeted by isis. >> sobering. okay. evan coleman, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> israel fires back. a look at the retaliation to

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hawaii is bracing for hurricane julio. forecasts show it is weakening as it moves towards hawaii. mike taibbi is watching the progress of the storm. he join us from maui. i want to play what maui's mayor has said about the tropical storm. here's that. >> if the storm passes, never comes close to us, people will say it's unwarranted. if the storm hits us and the intensity increases and if one person were injured or killed, and we weren't prepared, everybody would be asking why. >> so, mike, was hawaii sufficiently prepared for issel

and how are they preparing for julio? >> the mayor, when he spoke to us, were visibly relieved there were no injuries or death. while some may say hawaii was overprepared, they certainly were prepared for what happened. there were thousands of national guard troops on standby. another army of first responders responded immediately to every report. and there were reports of downed power lines, down trees, damaged the homes of some cars. all of that in the eastern quadrants of the big island and here on mayy as weui as well. the big island towards puna as well and there were significant reports of damage to a number of homes there. now, as for the oncoming threat, if it is still a threat, of hurricane julio, it is now less than 500 miles east of the longitude where these islands start and a track is projected to come about 200 miles north of the islands.

that would be outside the impact zone for a hurricane. and outside the impact of eastern a tropical storm which is about 160 miles. but, there is something called the windshield wiper effect when a storm begins to weaken it goes back and forth in its track, so there was still some concern there could be movement and at least have a tropical storm situation on the north side of the islands. as of the moment, there is no storm watch, no tropical storm watch, certainly no hurricane watch. and for vacationing travelers, always tens of thousands here, paradise has gone back to being just paradise. >> i'm glad for you, enjoying this live shot. it's not way expected. it's not what i expected. mike taibbi, thank you. president's making the case for potentially much more, in his remarks a few hours ago, the president called the intervention a long-term project but he was careful to qualify u.s. ground troops will not have their boots back on iraqi soil

any time soon. joining me now is nbc news national security producer courtney cuby. with a welcome to you. is there any indication from the military when the next air strikes may come, and are they gauging how successful the first ones were? >> right now, the targets they're taking out are targets of opportunity. what the military calls targets of opportunity. so we certainly are not getting much of a heads up of them. i think even the military, it doesn't really know, there's no scheduled time when the next stripes are going to take place. i think we will see a relatively steady drum beat of them over the next days, possibly weeks, depending how long isis continues to threaten the yazidi population and threaten the city of erbil. >> within erbil, duly noted, is the u.s. consulate there. is there a sense as to the distance between the consulate and where these isis fighters are right now? >> the latest u.s. military assessment that we have been privy to had them less than 30 minutes outside the city, so that's a real threat, when you

think about some of the weapons, the advanced weapons they've had. they've taken weapons from the iraqi security forces. they have the ability to strike certainly if they're only 30 minutes or 30 miles outside of the city. it's not just the u.s. consul e consulate, there's a joint operation center that the u.s. stood up there several weeks ago. it had about 40 u.s. military personnel, working alongside the kurdish military, the mesh her ga, to try and security the city, to provide intelligence to one another. erbil has been a relatively peaceful city is a relatively stable area, so there are other americans who are working and living there as well. so it's certainly the consulate is a concern but it's the larger u.s. personnel presence that exists there and u.s. resources, u.s. assets that are there. >> courtney cuby, great, thanks so much. violence and gaza erupted after militants broke a three-day truce.

they're trying to hammer out a long-term cease-fire between israel and hamas. martin, with a good day to you. this latest truce couldn't last the full 72 hours. is there any sense on the ground that a longer truce is even possible at this point? >> the two sides are far apart. the fighting is continuing after the truce ended. but it's continuing at a greatly diminished level. there were 28 rockets fired from gaza today into israel. that's down from about 130 to 140 rockets. so it's far fewer rockets fired into israel. israel's responding. i think there have been about 58 attacks from israel into gaza today. it's dramatically down from those days where they were 120 killed in one day. so the fighting is -- has definitely -- definitely

diminishing. it's a drum beat of violence to the background of what's really happening, which is the attempts in cairo to come up with an agreement between israel and hamas that would extend the cease-fire for the longer term. there appears to be some kind of progress. one of the reports from the palestinian officials in cairo is that the -- is that hamas and israel are closer to an agreement where members of the palestinian authority from the west bank would go to gaza and would be on that border -- and rafah, between the -- between gaza and egypt. so the border would be open. goods would begin to flow. humanitarian aid and food and all kinds of goods would flow into gaza, but monitoreded by palestinians who israel trusts. which is the palestinian forces of mahmoud abbas in the west bank. that's a very important little piece of progress. but israel has said they won't negotiate under fire. as long as the rockets come from gaza, israel says they won't

send their negotiators back to cairo. the israeli negotiators have not yet gone back to cairo. that's a critical step for a continuation of the real cease-fire. >> which side has the upper hand right now? >> well, that's a really tough question, actually. because each side claims victory of course in the conflict that just ended. israel's arm is on the boarder but they've allowed 40,000 army reserves to go home. that's almost half of the number they called up. but hamas is really unbowed and it unbeaten in gaza. i guess i've got to say it's a stalemate. a stalemate by definition would be a victory. israel has achieved some significant gains in the conflict by degrading hamas' ability to fire rockets at

israel. out of 10,000 rockets, hamas is left with about 3,000. i would say i think everybody here would say it's a stalemate in terms of real military success. neither side had really shown any complete dominance over the other. >> nbc's mart be fletcher in tel aviv, thank you, martin. the alarm over ebola up next. how the fight against the deadly virus is being raged here at home. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed! phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. thover 65 million years ago.rth like our van. yeah. we need to sell it. hi. need an appraisal?

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hearing directly from one of those patients. nbc gabe gutierrez is at the hospital for us. gabe, what are you hearing? >> there's a lot of encouraging signs for the two american patients here at emory. dr. brantly writes he is growing stronger every day and he thanks god for his mercy in dealing with this terrible, terrible disease. the other american patient, nancy writebol, she's feeling much better as well. feeling well enough to ask for starbucks coffee. her son says she's doing very, very well. and she's not out the woods yet, however. as for her husband, he is still in liberia. he says he misses his wife, he wants to come back to the u.s. to be with her, but he will have to wait out the ebola incubation period to make sure he's not infected. now, this epidemic is raging across west africa. it's killed nearly 1,000 people so far. the w.h.o., the world health

organization, has declared a public health emergency. several aid organizations have been sounding the alarm for months and they say the worldwide response has been just too slow on this, alex. >> we're told there was some sort of rally outside of the hospital. what was that about? >> yes, that's right. within the past hour, we spoke with several liberian americans who were outside here at emory and what they wanted to do is they wanted to thank these two americans for going to their country and serving their country. and they wanted to thank them and thank god that they've been improving. but they also wanted to draw attention to the fact that their country is in a very difficult position right now with this ebola outbreak. that the world really needs to pay attention and to send resources there. right now, in liberia, there have been reports of riot police today out on the streets because many people were frustrated with the way the government has handled this outbreak. so these liberian americans were

here to thank these americans but also to draw attention to their home country. >> i'm glad you've gotten their message out for them. thank you so much, nbc's gabe gutierrez. >> the refugees stranded on a mountain in iraq. they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. this is charlie. his long day of doing it himself starts with back pain...

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i thought it was something that, you know, old people got. welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." another round of food and water dropped over the sinjar mountains for refugees on the run from isis militants. the president said what isis is doing amounts to genocide and the u.s. cannot look away. joining me now, retired four star general barry mccaffrey. i know, sir, you've said these limited air strikes are going to have little impact and are not going to prevent genocide. why is that? >> boy, that guest you had on earlier seems to me is dead on target besides being well

informed. the proverbial joke about you can't be half pregnant. if we're going after isis, you have to go after the entire network at the same time. and not just with air power, with other allies, the turks, the iraqis, and i don't think we've done that. the notion you can pick out discrete targets in the city of erbil is unlikely to be significant. you cannot deliver humanitarian aid to 200,000 refugees with a couple of air drop supplies. so we've got to get involved in a significant way. >> the president, as you know, sir, vowed not to put american combat troops back on the ground in iraq. do you envision any scenario

with u.s. troops on the ground? >> well, certainly not politically. i think it would be suicide for the administration to even consider that. but you know the bottom line is what we should have been doing for the last couple of years instead of sticking with the notion of a unitary iraqi state, we should have been equipping, unilaterally, the kurds with the ability to protect themselves. if we're going to get those 50,000 refugees off a mountain top, it's only going to be kurdish peshmerga forces can open a land corridor. they're going to get right by mosul. they need significant combat power to do it. again, i think the problem is in retrospect vice president biden's looking like the smartest man in babylon. i think iraq has come apart. isn't going to get put back together. we shouldn't be trying to use a navy carrier battle group to do it. >> does isis have the military capability, the technology, to

bring down u.s. jets, fighter jets and the like? >> of course. you know, of course. they've received immense amounts. as much as 20% of the iraqi army took off like wild hares and left our equipment behind. if you're air dropping 5,000 feet over the sinjar mountains, you're in a threat scenario it the same with our f/a-18s coming off the navy carrier in the persian gulf. i think the problem right now, you've got a bunch of extremely intelligent people in the white house picking from menus of military options instead of sorting out politically what are we trying to achieve, and then telling the department of defense come up with a military strategy to achieve our purpose. i think a lot of this is 48-hour reaction to events on the ground. >> but doesn't iraq itself, iraqi leadership, have to lead the way here? >> i think it will be 100 years

before the kurds ever allow an iraqi army unit to come back into their area. the iraqis have almost no air force. by the way, they're not too interested in fighting to preserve kurdish safety from isis anyway. their response publicly today was the americans are serving kurdish interests, not our own. so, again, the notion of a unitary iraqi state has been dead, in my mind, for the last 90 days. it's not getting re-established. >> so you agree with the assessment given from a report on the ground that the reaction in erbil is considerably different from that in baghdad right now? >> yeah, of course. the kurdish areas have been extremely friendly and supportive to the americans. this isn't switzerland either. these are people put together a defense. their economy's booming. you know, you get flights out of western europe directly into erbil. but i must admit, i've joined

coleman and others. i was shocked at the inability of the peshmerga to more effectively defend their interests. >> are they war weary, sir, is that what it is? because they've led the way and have been effective in protecting their interests. >> i think they basically, you know, are dismounted poorly armed irregular force and we should have been given them significant support. it's not too late. you know, 100 c-17s loads of military equipment would make a significant difference. much more than 20 f/a-18 attacks somewhere in the mountains. >> to give the assistance you envision, can that be done without boots on the ground? >> politically, i don't think there's any question we're not going to, nor in my personal view should we, try and reintroduce ground combat forces. we're stuck with some very bad options. the best of which is let the

kurds defend themselves. giving them the tools to do just that. but as ev an coleman pointed ou if you want to go after isis, which is a laudable on jeckty, you have to go after the whole network. that means going into syria and striking at the heart of the nest. >> which is exactly what coleman was suggesting. okay. thank you very much, general, always a pleasure, sir. >> good to be with you. >> let's bring in nevada congressman, who joins us from las vegas. this air drop, the aid is less controversial than the decision to drop bombs on the isis military targets this week in order to protect erbil. what are you hearing about the appetite, or lack thereof, to tolerate any sort of ammunition in iraq? >> thank you for having me on. many of our constituents are concerned about any involvement of troops on the ground in iraq.

what the president has done is provide a very measured response. it's a limited strike in order to protect united states interest with the consulate there in iraq. as well as with the 150 advisers, diplomats and military personnel who are there in the region. that is in our interest. that's what the president has done. clearly, in the end, this is an iraq problem that mutt st be sod by the iraqi people and the iraqi government themselves. >> how about your colleagues on capitol hill? is there consensus or a d disparate group of opinions? >> on this, it's good to see, finally, there is some bipartisan agreement, that the president has acted decisively, and that he did so according to his powers as president. i wish that my colleagues would support this president in other

ways, domestically, as well as internationally, because we would probably get more done. >> you said this is an iraq problem. isn't this potentially a problem for us as well? should any of these isis fighters reach our own shores and try to disturb and create mayhem and chaos here? >> that's why the president, working with the national security advisers, have looked at all of those options and decided it's better to go in with this limited strike to protect our interest now. he did indicate this is going to be solved overnight, but it will not and should not require armed troops on the ground in order to protect the united states interest. >> how long do you think the u.s. will engage in this effort? is there any indication the president may need to go to you, to the congress for approval, or at least to ask for funds in the near future? >> the president said today the

funds are there to do the limited strike that has been undertaken. he will continue to consult with congress, the leadership of congress, as he has done previously. but i don't believe that we need to judge the situation right now. it's going to evolve over time. and we'll be ready to work with this president to protect our interests in that region. >> i want to ask you something, sir, based on the conversation we had last time you were on the show, and that is about a meeting you have scheduled today with veteran affairs secretary mcdonald. what are you hoping to get out of this meeting? >> well, we are very excited to have secretary mcdonald of the va here in nevada today. i'm excited that he announced just a week after being sworn in the approval of the new vavt outreach clinic in parump that our veterans there have been

waiting more than two years to get approval on. we're looking forward to talking to the secretary about the wait times. the backlog issues. the fact that we have a workforce shortage at our v.a. hospital that needs to be filled, and we hope to partner with the new medical school we're looking to establish here in nevada. there's tremendous opportunities. this is a secretary that wants to get in, roll up his sleeves, get to work. we're excited that he's here. our veterans are excited he's on the job. >> do you have any sense how long the va debacle is going to take to get fixed? i have a sense it was needing to be fixed like yesterday. >> you and our veterans alive believe it needs to be fixed yesterday. that's why i'm excited that the secretary chose nevada as the second in his country wide visit of all the v.a. facilities in order to see what is broken what needs to be fixed, and how he can work with congress on the

new v.a. reform bill we passed in order to give him the tools to do just that. >> congressman steven horseford, thank you so much. remembering the resignation of president nixon and the unusual phone call to one of his fired aides. energy for getting dizzy at the beach.

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40 years ago today, a lasting image of a president leaving the white house. to this day, he remains the only u.s. president to step down. a move he hardly came to easily and only after a stream discoveries about his involvement in the watergate cover-up. a look back at key players with a front row seat to history. >> i should resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. vice president ford will be sworn in as president at that hour in this office. >> here's what it was not, a simple break-in. >> no, widespread criminal conspiracy led, in part, by the president of the united states

himself. this was a constitutional crisis unique in our history. you had a president talking about firebombing people. you had a president talking about killing reporters. jack anderson. a whole conversation about killing him. authorizing the break-ins of private homes. just go down the list. it still sort of takes my breath away. >> it wasn't until president nixon finally talked about it in a nationally televised address. it's his first watergate speech. he responded to questions of course, but this was an address to the nation. this was to announce the resignation of the attorney general and top aides, as well as the firing of white house counsel john dean. >> in any organization, the man at the top must bear the responsibility. that responsibility, therefore, belongs here. in this office. i accept it.

and i pledge to you tonight from this office that i will do everything in my power to ensure that the guilty are brought to justice and that such abuses are purged from our political processes in the years to come long after i have left this office. >> the firings were the first attempt to stop the political bleeding for nixon. but there were signs then that it was actually just the beginning. >> richard nixon was smart. whatever else one may think of, he was smart. as time went along, each step, i would say to myself, wow, yes, he's probably involved in some peripheral way but i can't believe that he would be dumb enough to do this and also couldn't believe that he was high enough to do it. i use that verb measurably. when it reached the point he was

lifting the two who had defended him the fiercest -- >> and he had to fire them. >> -- the closest to him, but he was giving them up in order to protect themselves, at that point, i he's in really deep trouble. >> so that april 30th speech, when he addresses the nation, first time he addresses the nation, that was when you went wow, if he has to give those two guys up, this is the beginning of the end. >> that's -- that's exactly right. >> it was one, long dramatic thing after another. a lot of people thought he had already gone. there was no doing it that way. how did i do today? did my speech go over well? >> he still needed his advice. >> i love you like a son. he was a little -- let's say i think maybe he was in his cups. he said, bob, would you call around and see how my speech went over? and haldeman very delicately

said i think under the circumstances, mr. president, i might not be the person to do that. >> you can watch more interviews looking back, you can go to msnbc.com/thedailyrundown. an expert on voter fraud has released new analysis on newly cast ballots. ♪ ♪here i am. rock you like a hurricane♪ fiber one now makes cookies. find them in the cookie aisle.

chorus of complaints about voter fraud and the need for tougher i.d. laws just got interrupted. one law professor tracked allegations of fraud over the last 14 years. he discovered -- are you ready for it? only 31 incidents of voter fraud from only a billion ballots cast. can't stress that point enough. justin lovitt is joining me now. if your research is completely accurate, the rate of fraud in this country is almost statistically insignificant. how surprised were you by these

numbers? >> not very surprised. there is voter fraud in america and around the world. but if you're only at fraud that i.d. laws are supposed to stop, it is remarkably rare. that's because it's not a particularly smart way to steal an election. if you're after stealing an election, people have tried and succeeded using absentee ballots, using vote buying, using plain-old fashioned stealing the election by stuffing the ballot box, having insiders do the work. sending people into the polls to pretend to be somebody else is a really dumb, high-risk strategy and that's part of why it just doesn't happen that often. >> so this poll this past spring, finding that 70% of americans think voter i.d. laws are needed to stop fraud, what do you say to that majority of americans who feel this way? >> well, it turns out that people express favor for i.d.

laws. on the other hand, it actually doesn't make people feel measurably better about elections. there was a study that looked at how people felt about the integrity of elections, and it turns out it didn't make a difference. if you thought elections were stolen, you were going to think that whether you had to show a particular form of document at the polls or not. >> justin, you know there are these legal battles being waged right now in several states over voter i.d. laws. it includes texas, north carolina. these are where polling places will accept several forms of i.d., but not student i.d. do you think keeping student i.d. is an intentional effort to keep young voters from casting their ballots? >> i think the list of these i.d.s that these states are accepting are calibrated very carefully. some of the states will accept firearms permits but not student i.d.s. and i should mention that the states that are most controversial, the ones that you just mentioned, are really in the vast minority. every single state in the country has some way of asking

people to prove that they are who they say they are. that's just that the vast majority of states allow -- it's the most restrictive states, states like texas, that really restrict in a way that keeps people out, keeps eligible voters from casting their ballots. >> thank you very much, professor justin lovitt. i'll see you right back here tomorrow at noon eastern. up next, t.j. holmes. honey, look i got one to land. uh-huh (announcer) there's good more... honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. ooh, you got a buddy. i'm like a statue. i just signed up and, boom, all these points. ...and there's not-so-good more.

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