we only get one opportunity to take a look at these scenes. they are only the scene one time, and there were a lot of folks down there. emotions were running very high. i know that we certainly understand that. i know that chief jackson and the ferguson police department appreciates that. >> an emotional 24 hours in a st. louis suburb where an officer shot an unarmed black teenager. police today are laying out their version of events. we have all the new details. also, tony stewart, one of the biggest stars in racing, not racing today. he's pulled out of an event after hitting and killing a fellow driver in a race.

could he now face criminal charges? also right now we're two hours away from the start of a three-day truce between israel and hamas. this could open doors for talks on a longer cease-fire. we'll have an update from the region. iraqi refugees running from isis rebels say they don't want president obama to keep his promise about no boots on the ground. they want america's help. this as the u.s. state department this hour relocates staff members out of the u.s. embassy in baghdad. and new details on the origin of the ebola outbreak. some are criticizing the international response. why do some people seem to get experimental treatments while others are left to friend for themselves? the ethical debate here. i'm t.j. holmes in today for mr. craig melvin. we begin with that developing story out of missouri. community there outraged after the fatal shooting death of an unarmed 18-year-old black man by

a police officer. the teen has been identified as michael brown. you're seeing him there. shot yesterday by a ferguson, missouri, police officer. hours ago the county police had a press conference describing what happened. >> a ferguson police officer had an encounter with two individuals on the street. in fact, one of those individuals at the time came in as the officer was exiting his police officers car, allegedly pushed the police officer back into the car where he physically assaulted the police officer. it is our understanding at this point in the investigation that within the police car there was a struggle over the officer's weapon. there was at least one shot fired within the car. after that the officer went -- came back out of the car. he exited his vehicle, and there was a shooting that occurred where the officer, in fact, shot the subject and the subject -- they were fatal injuries.

>> and this quwas the scene outside the police department during and after the press conference. at one point the chants got so loud, you could hear them inside while the police chief was speaking. the st. louis branch of the naacp launching an investigation. we'll bring in the nbc affiliate in st. louis. to our viewers, we have a slight delay so bear with us. you talked to the person who was with mike brown when this incident occurred. he gave a different version of events than what the police chief did. tell us about it. >> reporter: yes, very different version of those events. his name is dorian. he's a 17-year-old male. very close in age to mike brown, the victim. he says he and mike brown were walking down the middle of the street inside their apartment complex. they say they were not bothering

anyone. they were approached by the ferguson officer who told them they needed to get onto the sidewalk. at that point they said, we're just a few steps away from his grandmother's house, him being mike, and they went back and forth a little bit. he says the officer started to drive away, then put his vehicle in reverse and swerved at the two young men attempting to hit them. he says the officer then reached through the window of the vehicle and grabbed mike brown. there was a struggle, that's when mike was shot the first time. he said the two then ran away and the officer shot mike brown again. by his account mike brown had his hands in the air and was kneeling on the ground. you heard the police account is far different from what the witness had to say. >> tell us as well, we saw the outrage yesterday when there weren't a lot of answers as to exactly what happened. we didn't get all the answers today but we got at least some or the police version of events. how has the community now reacted after the outrage yesterday?

what's the reaction after the police press conference and some answers at least from the police? >> reporter: i would say, t.j., there is still plenty of outrage. there is a lot of anger and emotion swirling through this community, as you can imagine. however, the protests that have been staged all throughout the day yesterday and then again today, they are much more organized today, they have been peaceful. angry but peaceful. there has been no interaction physical with police or the people demonstrating. they are calling for justice. they are calling for an economic boycott of ferguson businesses, but, again, this has not been a violent protest. just a very emotional and angry protest. >> we don't know if race at all played a role but certainly people are starting to make those suggestions already. do we have any idea or any information about the race of the police officer? >> reporter: i can tell you, t.j., we don't have any confirmed information from police. i just asked again a few minutes

ago. they're staying very tight-lipped about this. the witnesses, people in the community say that the officer was a white man but again we do not have that confirmed directly from the source. you can see how if that were the case that that may add extra fuel to this fire but we don't know that for sure. >> grant bissell, a reporter from ksdk, thank you so much for keeping us updated. we want to turn to another developing story, this one involving nascar's tony stewart, one of the biggest stars in racing. we're hearing from him for the first time since last night's fatal crash in upstate new york. stewart was participating in a sprint car race when his car hit and killed fellow driver kevin ward, jr. ward had gotten out of his car after spinning out and that's when stewart's car struck and killed him. in a statement this afternoon, the three-time sprint cup champion says, quote, there aren't words to describe the sadness i feel about the accident that took the life of kevin ward, jr.

it's a very emotional time for all involved and it is the reason i've decided not to participate in today's race at watkins glen. my thoughts and prayers are with his family, friends, and everyone affected by this tragedy. that race he mentioned is taking place right now. he abruptly pulled out after initial reports he would be back on the track today. questions swirling about how this happened and whether there could be criminal charges. let me get to the phone right now with rob simmelkjaer. was that his decision alone or did someone nudge him in that direction? >> well, t.j., there's no way to tell really but i think it was clearly the right decision. i was a little surprised at some of the comments from his manager as of saturday night basically saying it was, quote, business as usual for the stewart team and that stewart would be racing. i think that team thought better of it in the aftermath of what's obviously a terrible tragedy.

despite the stakes of the race that stewart is missing today as far as nascar season, he made the right decision to pull out and give some respect to the family and those affected by this very untimely death. >> and, rob, what's the word right now? an investigation certainly going on. the police chief last night being very careful to say this wasn't a criminal investigation, at least that was last night. has anything changed today and is there a possibility charges, criminal charges, could be coming against tony stewart? >> the local sheriff's office has made clear they don't expect and that there are no pending criminal charges. they are asking spectators who were at the track to send in videos. i looked at the main video that a lot of people have been talking about. i personally would be surprised if criminal charges are filed. the one thing i will say, t.j., and this is obviously a tragedy first and foremost for kevin ward, jr., his family, but the sport of auto racing has to do something about this tradition that seems to have developed of

drivers confronting each other on the track after disputes and drivers getting out of their cars, walking into traffic to confront other drivers. we see this a lot in nascar and other forms of racing and it's something that needs to stop because it's obviously a very dangerous thing. >> that's important to bring up and i know you're certainly not blaming mr. ward here and want to make sure what our viewers understand. for those who don't watch a lot of racing, it gets very heated on these tracks. you have a lot of adrenaline, a lot of testosterone and these guys often times where they have disputes, they get to bumping and rubbing with these cars, a wreck takes place, and one of them will physically get out and get on a track where guys are going 150, 200 miles an hour. we reached out to some of tony stewart's sponsors. bass pro shops is one of them. left it kind of vague as to whether there would be any change in status of their sponsorship. what could be coming down the road for tony stewart?

will he have a challenge i guess with sponsorships which are so important in racing? >> i think it all depends on whether any criminal charges are filed here, t.j. again, i'd be surprised if that happened. i think ultimately if no charges are filed, this will be seen as a tragic accident, one that tony stewart was involved in. stewart has been a controversial figure and a driver throughout his career. he's been involved in a lot of these less serious confrontations with drivers over the course of his career, but this is obviously something at a much different level because a death was involved. again, i think no criminal charges will be filed in my nonexpert opinion having looked at one or two videos of this but that really will determine what the long-term impact is on tony stewart. >> rob simmelkjaer, thank you. ten minutes past the hour. breaking news for you on another story, a story that's really been dominating the news over the past several days. the new u.s. mission in iraq. just about an hour ago the state

department made a decision to move employees out of two u.s. outposts in that country. this is the embassy in baghdad and consulate in erbil. however, government officials do tell us that those facilities remain open and operating. meanwhile, the u.s. launched five new air strikes today in northern iraq against isis. that comes after four strikes saturday near the syrian border. senior white house correspondent chris jansing is on martha's vineyard with the president. the president has said no plans to move the consulate or embassy in iraq. i guess what has changed now to start moving personnel around? >> reporter: well, let's make this clear, the president said that we are going to continue to keep them open and operating and as you said, they are going to continue to open and operate, but you cannot ignore the changing security environment there, and as the state department put out their release telling us about the movement of some of their employees, understand that the threat of isis, what is going on in that country, has increased their

personal threat which has been there for a long time. they face the possibility of kidnapping, all americans do. they face the possibility of a number of terrorists acts from exploding ieds to shootings. they already restrict their movements. they're warned not to go out to cafes, to open air public venues, certainly not to any kind of demonstration, and so it's not unusual that given the security situation there might be some movement but one of the things they emphasize is that this is a limited number of employees and again both the consulate and the embassy remain open and operating, t.j. >> chris, it's sunday, a lot of sunday talk. you could expect the president to kind of get it from some of the usual suspects, if you will, on some of the sunday shows, but what's been kind of the drum beat out there and what's the fallout from today? >> reporter: yeah, i think we're hearing the first sort of widespread criticism from republicans about the president's plan, which they say is too limited. they say that isis is as much a

threat or more of a threat now than al qaeda was going into 9/11, and so they are calling for wider air strikes. they are calling for an overall broader mission with an emphasis on getting rid of isis altogether, something the president said has to be done by the iraqis themselves, and the only way that that can be accomplished is for there to be a stable government. having said that and the vast majority of the criticism coming from republicans, there is also a little bit of reluctance on the part of democrats who are concerned about the possibility of a wider mission, what is commonly known as mission creep. dick durbin, for example, saying that the president could not necessarily count on democratic congressional support should there be a broadening of the mission, but having said that, white house officials continue to emphasize here there is no plan for that. this is a strictly focused mission. there will be no boots on the ground. >> chris, thank you so much. up next, we're just under

two hours away now from a truce between israel and hamas. some say this could clear the way for talks about a longer cease-fire. we'll have an update from gaza. plus, more than 20 kids have died in hot cars this year. wi a 17-year-old has invented something that could save lives. i'm going to be talking to her a little later in today's "big idea." take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. peanuts! peanuts! crowd cheers! ♪ who's more excited about back to school savthe ladies?ples? these guys? or these guys? when you get guaranteed low prices on everything you buy the most, everybody gets excited! staples. make more happen for less.

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bill, we're just over an hour and a half away from this proposed cease-fire that supposed to take place. is there quiet before the proposed quiet? we have seen right before a truce sometimes things can get a little violent. >> t.j., that's exactly what happened in fact just around two hours ago right over where i'm speaking to you at the moment. there was an israeli missile strike that slammed into a factory. there was a huge explosion and a fire that could be seen all over gaza. so israel even as it was considering the cease-fire, in fact, had it probably already agreed to the cease-fire by that stage, right up to the last minute trying to strike as many targets as it could. so there is still the possibility we've got an hour and a half left that those strikes could continue. you know, the truce was a bit of a surprise because both sides had been making noises that suggested it wouldn't happen and

that the palestinians especially were prepared to walk away from cairo and the israelis, indeed, benjamin netanyahu this morning saying at a cabinet meeting this military operation is not over. we will not negotiate under fire. so all the mood music was bad and the announcement of a new 72-hour cease-fire was a bit of a surprise. >> what are we hoping, everyone hoping will get accomplished in that 72 hours. what are still some sticking points that could keep us from getting to a longer term peace? >> yeah, so the palestinian delegation is still in cairo. the egyptian mediators obviously are there, and an israeli official says that they will send negotiators to cairo tomorrow as long as the truce holds. at that point the real work starts. the peace talks will start

again. the negotiating positions remain as they were. israel wants gaza virtually demilitarized, it wants guarantees the rockets will stop. hamas and the other palestinian groups want guarantees that the israeli siege of gaza will be lifted and there are all sorts of obstacles along the way, lots of sticking points. the fact that a truce has been agreed means there's absolutely no guarantee that the peace talks will get anywhere and that that truce might not break down as the last one did. >> bill neely in gaza, thank you so much. coming up, new details about when and how the ebola outbreak gn. plus, an ethical debate about how some patients are treated better than others. president obama says u.s. voft involvement in iraq could last for months. how do we avoid a full-blown

military option? is dedicated to what you could do with all that energy. for months. how do we avoid a full-blown military option? energy for getting dizzy at the beach.

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new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. we have an update on that breaking story involving nascar's tony stewart. the ontario county sheriff's office in upstate new york now says there is no evidence to support criminal intent on the part of the three-time sprint cup champion. last night stewart was involved in a deadly car crash during a

sprint race in upstate new york. his car hit and killed kevin ward, jr. it happened when ward got out of his car and stepped on the track. his family says the family appreciates all the prayers and support from the public. the families needs to grieve and asks for privacy at this time. we'll keep you updated on any new developments. the sheriff's office now announcing that there is no criminal intent, no evidence of criminal intent in that situation. back now to another big story, ongoing story right now, which is the u.s. military engagement in iraq. another military engagement in iraq. american war planes continue to target and take out islamic militants on the northern part of that country. the debate going on now is how to avoid a new full-blown combat operation in the same iraq that president obama called stable and self-reliant when u.s. troops left in december of 2011.

plus, there's new insight from hillary clinton. she appears to be distancing herself again from president obama's foreign policy. let me bring in our brain trust, former new mexico governor bill richardson who also served as u.s. ambassador to the u.n. under president clinton. janine zakaria, former jerusalem bureau chief for "the washington post" and andrew slater, a contributor to the daily beast. it's sunday so we any there will be a lot of politicians out. senator john mccain out there speaking on one of the sunday shows. >> if i look at the world in january of 2009 and i look at the world today, i can tell you this, candy, it's very, very different, and i believe that's because when the united states of america withdraws from leadership from the world, it creates a vacuum, and bad things happen. >> governor, we dove back a little bit from the decision

which wasn't the united states' decision frankly to pull all u.s. troops out. can you trace back what we're seeing to anything that senator mccain is saying or to the decision or when our troops pulled out in december of 2011? do these things lead us to what we're seeing today? >> no, i don't believe so, and i think the president's decision to pull out was the right one, and this decision recently is basically a stopgap measure for two objectives. one, to contain isis, which is making significant gains, and secondly to buy time for more inclusive iraqi government. that's where i'm very concerned that maliki does not realize the danger he's in, that he has to form a more inclusive government, but i think our involvement now, it's limited, it's to prevent genocide with the autonomous region of the kurds. the kurds are our friends, they're pro-american.

we have to take a stand also against further expansion by isis. they're already in eastern syria. they're all over iraq. we don't want them to gain a foothold that would be a national security threat to us. so i think the president's kept his objective of limiting our participation, no ground troops, no further military u.s. involvement in iraq with a strategy of containment that is a short term. i want to see a long term strategy to contain isis. >> andrew, you served three tours in iraq, and to the governor's point there, one of containment, can we contain and buy enough time as the governor there is saying until the iraqis and the iraqi government gets it together? can you do what you need to do to isis by doing air strikes without having boots on the ground which some of the iraqis,

the yazidis in particular are asking for now? >> i think a major problem is the kurdish forces will have to fight for erbil and if they're defeated, there's not going to be any ground forces in northern iraq left to fight isis. so we can say we want to avoid keeping american troops on the ground, but that means keeping iraqi troops on the ground. so i think the intervention that we've seen this week has to do with the fact that kurdish forces are generally at risk to being completely defeated in the north in which case if we want to keep american troops on the ground, there has to be an effort to keep iraqi troops in the fight in some way or shape. >> janine, also is hillary clinton right in her recent interview in "the atlantic" in which she had some pretty harsh kris simp criticism and saying the failure to aid and arm syrian rebels led to the power vacuum isis fighters have now filled.

does she have a point? >> there's no doubt what we're seeing over is a spillover from syria, but if you look at the interview the president gave to thomas friedman, he just didn't feel he had the confidence and the right people to arm, that they weren't going to be able to make a difference there. but i think rather than looking back, you have to look forward right now. we're in an emergency military situation. isis has already set up it's own mini caliphate in this region. it's completely lawless there, and he's got this proximate reason for engage with trying to save the yazidis but andrew is right, the peshmerga will have to be our allies. i expect what we're sogoing to e is huge armaments going to the peshmergas. the iraqi army are either being executed or fleeing battalion by battalion. >> hillary clinton says great nations need organizing principles and don't do stupid stuff is not an arguing

principle. don't do stupid stuff is something that came out as part of president obama's foreign policy. you could replace stuff with another word. for the sake of live tv we'll say stuff. is she right frankly and why are we in your opinion and some people might say this is an obvious answer to this question starting to put a little distance between herself and the president? >> well, it's obvious she's trying to put a little distance, and by the way, i do agree, i think we should have armed the syrian rebels after the president went ahead and said there's a red line, i would have supported the limited air strikes. however, we didn't do it. but in this situation, we have a clear objective. the kurds are our friends, they're pro-democracy, they're pro-west. they're moving towards what i think should happen is an inclusive process that involves probably three separate

entities, shia and a kurdish ri region and a sunni region. i think that eventually is going to be the outcome but i think what we need to do now is recognize that the president i think has struck a middle ground, a sensible middle ground where he still has more options. and those more options might include, you know, maybe helping the kurds, arming the kurds, giving them a little help, but i think limited what we're doing to air strikes and training is the correct response, containing isis, although, you know, andrew, i respect what he says, that may not be possible. but i think what we do need is a longer term military and diplomatic strategy to contain isis to not go beyond the huge gains they've made in the last couple of months in iraq and in eastern syria. i mean, these guys are the worst. they're worse than al qaeda. >> to your point, you wanted to bring andrew back in.

i want to get him back in. what do you think, andrew, when you hear the idea of a long term -- this might be a long-term campaign we're involved in. is that all right with you frankly as someone who has served three tours there in iraq and also the idea of boots on the ground. are you okay with that if that's what it takes to wipe out isis? >> well, i don't think we're at the point where we're talking about boots on the ground yet, but not only was i veteran but i also have taught in iraq the last two years so i have a lot of friends and their families that are at risk right now, and it's certainly reached the point where there's nobody left to protect them, and the condition of the peshmerga of now have to do the toxic relationship between erbil and baghdad. the kurdish regional government haven't been getting funding from baghdad since january. they're fighting a war on the cheap. cargo flights have been suspended.

everything the government can do to limit their ability to fight, they have done. this has to do with their toxic relationship with baghdad and i still think despite this the kurds can maintain the ground and that what the president's proposed has an opportunity to be successful but i don't see anything happening in the short term. they're too diffuse. isis has too many forces on the battle field in too many different areas for this to be anything but a short-term campaign would have any reasonable results. >> janine, you take my last minute on the president's policy now and the criticism he's going to hear. he used the word genocide almost using the military as a humanitarian force. people have brought up, why not syria? is he going to have a tough time balancing why here and not there? >> you know, i think this is not the moment to really be arguing about whether his doctrine holds across the globe and whether he's just practicing selective

ewe m humanitarianism going on. we have a major crisis with an al qaeda-like state taking over a major region of strategic importance to the united states with people being beheaded, captured, buried alive. it's really extreme. so i think anything we can do like we've mentioned to bolster the peshmerga forces in the north, work with the sunni tribesmen who have to be critical to turn against the radical islamists and then we have to do something about maliki. the political process has not been working for the last four years. we can't wait for baghdad to get its political house in order. they have to ramp up the strikes and i think we'll see this go beyond the initial humanitarian impulse in the coming weeks. >> well said and a good reminder of what's going on there. so often just political debates go back and forth. governor richardson, janine, andrew, thank you all. enjoy the rest of your sunday. >> thank you. still ahead, researchers may have identified patient zero in the ebola outbreak and they say they know how the virus spread

so fast. plus more than 20 kids reportedly died in hot car deaths this year. now a teenager has invented something called the hot seat to help keep all those kids safe. it's today's "big idea." honey, look i got one to land. uh-huh (announcer) there's good more... honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. ooh, you got a buddy. i'm like a statue. i just signed up and, boom, all these points. ...and there's not-so-good more. you're a big guy... huh. oh no. get the good more with verizon smart rewards and rack up points to use towards the things you really want. now get 50% off all new smartphones. ♪ fill their bowl with the meaty tastes they're looking for, with friskies grillers.

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so we wash it all in cold water with tide. even sara's shorts. those are mine. seriously? throw it all in... really? because tide cleans better. even in cold. new developments in the high profinal case of a georgia toddler who died in a hot car. ap attorney for the mother believes she will not be charged after the district attorney asked her to fill out a victim's impact statement. that's typically a written statement from a victim detailing how a crime has impacted them. police say 22-month-old cooper harris died the morning of june 18th after being left in a hot car for several hours. the case drew national attention during the father's televised probable cause hearing where prosecutors accused him of researching hot car deaths diop line and leaving his son to die on purpose because he wanted to live a child-free life. justin ross harris has pleaded not guilty to murder and cruelty to a child. that's just one case of a hot

car death. this year though there have reportedly been at least 21 heat stroke deaths involving kids in cars so what can be done to stop these seemingly preventable tragedies? one 17-year-old has an idea and is today's "big idea." it's called the hot seat. it has four parts, pretty simple, and i'm not going to break it down p.m. i'm going to let the inventor break it down. alyssa chavez, 17 years old. it's called the hot seat. you have it here for me. walk me through how this works. >> the hot seat has four components. the first is a pad that can be placed in any infant, toddler or booster seat. the second is a key fob that senses how far the parent is getting from a vehicle. it has an alarm on it. the third is an alarm that can be attached to any vehicle and the fourth is an alarm on an app for cell phones. if i put this pad in any car seat and i were to walk 40 feet away from the vehicle then an alarm on the key fob, vehicle,

and app would sound. >> again, it lets you know because the pad that's in here because of the weight of the child it knows that someone's in that car seat. >> yes. it's sensing if there's a baby in the seat. >> this is the simplest thing. it's seemingly simple. why hasn't someone come up with this? what got you started on it? >> it started as a project for my eighth grade science fair. >> eighth grade. >> i heard so many children dying in hot cars and it was a problem that was really growing. i thought there could be something to stop that. >> it seems relatively simple and also inxens sif. it doesn't seem like this is the most, you know, advanced technology. >> right. >> necessarily. is it ready to go? are we ready to start putting this thing out there and making it available? >> i'm working on raising enough money for a prototype so i have a website on a crowd funding campaign running on a website and my campaign is called the hot seat one child too many. >> what is your personal reaction now to some of these cases and stories we've seen out

there? you're 17 yourself. just your perspective and it prompted you to go to route. >> yes. i see how busy parents can get and they have a lot on their mind, so i understand how something like this could happen. >> what about in your own house? how many kids running around? any babies? >> my mom has a home child care so we have lots of babies running around. >> mom is not leaving babies in the car. >> no, no. >> i had to ask you that. are you getting the reaction? are you getting the support and so far the funding that you need? >> yes. >> to get this going? >> i have had a lot of positive support and a lot of positive reactions to my product and i'm almost at $18,000 and i need $20,000 to $30,000 for the prototype. >> have you seen other devices out there like this? i think there are some maybe not exactly like this, meant to maybe do the same thing but did you kind of research and see who else was doing something similar and how is yours kind of different from the rest? >> to get -- i got a patent on this so there was a search for anything like this and mine is

the only one exactly like this. i just wanted to make mine user friendly and wireless. so my product doesn't ever have to be turned on. it's always on sensing if a child is on the seat. it's not something the parent has to think about. >> alyssa chavez this is very impressive. you started this in eighth grade. you were 13 at the time. this is really impressive. given what we've seen in the past couple years no doubt in high-profile cases, this is something that could really save lives. i applaud you. if you have a big idea out there making a difference, we want to hear about it. tell us by e-mailing us at bigidea.msnbc@nbc uni.com. what's your website again? >> indigogo.com, the hot seat one child too many. >> thank you so much. up next, we have new details on the origin of this deadly ebola outbreak. plus new criticism of the

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we're getting new details about the possible origins of a deadly ebola virus, this outbreak we're seeing now. "the new york times" reports patient zero may have been a 2-year-old baby boy. in canada, a patient suspected earlier to have ebola has test negative. so far 861 people have died and the outbreak nearly 1,800 cases total. today a doctor who spent years in liberia warned of more to come. >> we're still seeing new cases and new suspected cases popping up in places like europe, canada, and of course nigeria. >> meanwhile, the two americans who were infected and treated with an experimental drug appear

to be improving. all of this has sparked a fierce ethical debate about who should have access to such experimental treatment. joining us, a medical and bioethicist at new york university wrote a piece in the "washington post" called, "why do the two white americans get the serum while hundreds of africans die?" the fact is that they were americans. i assume this is what you meant -- the optics white and black, yes, are there. but what you meant was essentially privileged western americans is what you were saying. >> exactly. so why do two privileged people get it when there is a slew of people dying overseas. to which the answer is, quite simply and maybe surprisingly, the group that sent them over there asked. nobody else had asked. it wasn't bias. it's not prejudice. it is not pro americans first. evangelical organization that said go over there and do some medical work and then the ebola

outbreak occurred, they chased down the company and asked them to send the drug. >> what are the chances if anyone else asked -- you got some numbers over there. >> fair enough. you're not going to get poor people in remote villages in guinea asking people in san diego about the medicine. it's not so much that they picked these two to get it, it is that we don't have a system international that says whether there is an outbreak, if there is an idea drug you might be able to use, here is the steps. now we've got governments asking, nigeria saying how about us. >> on the other side of this, i'm sure you saw the article in the "new york times" this week, the other question -- what would it have looked like if you test a new drug on an african population, would there be being a accusations that they were being used as guinea pigs. >> probably fairly ill literal. these are rural people, they

don't know much about western medicine. i think we would have heard it. people would say, what's going on? why are they experimenting on these folks? the answer to this is, if we had some international standard and had a drug that wasn't brewed in somebody's bathtub here's how we're going to use it. i don't have any problem, by the way, saying doctors, nurses, health care workers first go in harm's way, i think there are 70 doctors and nurses that have died so far and they are at the biggest risk. >> this is an experimental drug. there is not more of it. frankly. you're telling me it would take another six months to get some more. it was administered and given to these two patients. >> if it were used here, fda would say you have to get our approval. when you ship it overseas the fda jurisdiction doesn't apply

assuming they gave it away. >> we don't know necessarily if this experimental serum is the reason for their condition, and even if they recover fully and we might check in with them six months from now and they'd have a problem. >> the safety of a drug is not what a person does after a week or two years, you want a year or two years of survival. if this drug destroyed their liver and everybody fell over dead in three weeks, i don't think anybody would say we've got a cure on our hands. so safety testing of drugs requires us to be able to man tore people to see what's going on. the other thing is if we had more drug, which we don't, you have to be able to follow them. you don't really know if they got better or not. >> how important is it that we maybe know now where patient zero came from, a 2-year-old boy in a village and maybe it spread from there. how important is that in stopping the outbreak? >> it fills in a piece of the puzzle but the real goal right

now i think is not fighting about drugs or who gets them. it is to get more boots on the ground with gloves, goggles, more education. you want to shut the epidemic down. that's the crucial thing to see resources going there now. need more people offense there right away, more educational efforts, more equipment, little less argument about who gets the drugs. send a few more gloves. >> thank you so much. that's going to be our show for today. we certainly appreciate you watching us this afternoon. we had a lot of fast-moving breaking stories. we appreciate you being with us. going to be back here next saturday, 2:00 eastern time. until then, keep it here, msnbc for the latest news and updates. folks, enjoy your sunday evening.

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