[announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. ♪ ♪ ♪ when you're up on the stage so unbelievable ♪ ♪ oh, unforgettable >> i don't think we are going to solve this problem in weeks if that is what you mean. i think this is going to take some time. the iraqi security forces, in order to mount an offensive and be able to operate effectively

with the support of populations in sunni areas are going to have to revamp, get resupplied, have a clear strategy. but this is going to be a long-term project. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." take a live look at times square. boy, does it need another reminder six years into into the presidency, barack obama is learning again this weekend and getting a view of just how lonely it is at the top. especially when you're running the military of the last remaining benevolent super power in the world. with europe still seemingingly to be sleep, barack obama just became the fourng straight u.s. president to launch a war in iraq. america has ordered hostile military operations in that country. i read in this a maureen dowd piece, 17 of the last 24 years. it came from both sides this weekend. democratic critics seem

oblivious through the growing threat, while republicans who attack president obama for doing nothing or now attacking him for -- wait, willie? wait? for doing something. >> this isn't iraq we are talking about. every day that goes by, isis build this calaphate. they are more powerful than al qaeda was on 9/11. >> i'm predicting if we pull everybody out of afghanistan not based on conditions, you'll see that same movie again in afghanistan. >> this commander in chief has no strategy. he has no vision. they are coming here. this is just not about baghdad. this is just not about syria. it is about our home land and if we get attacked because he has no strategy to protect us, then he will have committed a blunder for the ages. >> some republicans are even saying, willie, it's worse that

he has done something. but this time, the commander in chief made his military move because he had few other options. you saw in the maureen dowd column this weekend, i'm sure. maureen said this is a barbaric forces pillaging so swiftly across the middle east it seems like from a sci-fi film. becoming stronger and more dangerous by the day and making president obama's genocide case for him. religious cleansing against christians and shiites and sunnis and a group of people battling againing genocide. it occupies now a land mass larger than jordan. good morning. it's monday, august 11th. willie, we've got a lot of

people talking about this. a story that is developing and breaking news. i guess we are arming the kurds directly? >> update this this morning arming the kurds directly as they fight isis. joining us this morning is senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffing post, sam stein. a former director of the national terrorism center, michael leiter. carol lee. editorial director of the national journal, ron fournier. and bobby ghosh. welcome to you all. this morning, more evidence that the president has finally seen enough. u.s. officials say the obama administration is now directly arming kurdish fighters in iraq. american aircraft, meanwhile, continue to pound targets there, but a struggle over control of the iraqi government is threatening to complicate the crisis now. a fourth round of air strikes has been carried out against the group known as the islam state or isis and u.s. troops have

made at least four air-drops of aid to displaced iraqis. president obama over the weekend say the campaign strike may last for months while once again ruling out ground troops there. joe, this is, obviously, a limited action by the president of the united states to stop isis in this one spot, in this moment, in this case. >> right. >> but this is a bigger problem as you pointed out in your introduction. it's in syria and iraq. it's not going away. >> it's a massive problem. for people looking at this and saying the same thing about isis they don't want to knock down buildings in new york or washington, isis wants to knock down buildings in new york and washington. this is, again, this weekend, another "the new york times" column i read said that actually religious genocide is the end. it's not a cool of terror. it's a means to an end. >> bobby ghosh, explain what we are seeing in isis, what their

objectives are and what they are hoping to achieve. >> as joe said, they are far more ambitious than any other terrorist group that has come before. they want to hold territory. they want to create a state for themselves. they are calling themselves the islamic state. then they want to kill almost anybody that comes in the way. fellow muslims, most of all. whether shiites or fellow sunnis that don't happen to believe that the islam that these people have. do they want to attack the united states? absolutely. they want to take attack. the west, the united states specifically. it doesn't have to be in the homeland. the united states can be attacked all over the world. we have interests -- we have people in harm who could potentially be in harm's way anywhere in the world and these guys want to do harm. there is absolutely no question. >> no question about it. michael leiter, though, it is pretty encouraging what has

happened in the past two days. the president's decision to start bombing isis shows that they aren't the third rike. they have spread like poison gas because western countries and countries across the middle east have allowed them to do that, but it looks like we are already making some pretty quick gains here. >> i don't think this is a particularly difficult target for the u.s. military. the question is how far we want to go with that. as you noted, joe, they are strong and they are certainly the strongest terrorist organization and army we have faced over the past ten years, but they are far from -- far from this that can't be defeated. i think folks at the pentagon believe within one to three months, isis could really be rolled back with u.s. air power if there is also an iraqi ground

force that fights side-by-side. the real challenge is you can control them out of iraq with some air power, but how far are you willing to do? because without considering syria in the same breath, we can't really attack this at its same root. >> ron, the president took decisive action here and we have seen isis rolled back to the point where the kurds have been able to repel them, at least in this one region. but as this does metastasize and see more attempts of genocide around the world and region there, what does the president do next? >> he's in a tough spot. we are all in a tough spot. the country doesn't want to go back to war. we really -- you know, our forces are depleted and worn out,this a serious issue. we are now, you know, almost exactly 13 years after president bush got a memo in crawford, texas, saying osama bin laden wants to attack the united states. we are getting that memo now. what we are seeing on tv now is a warning that, you know, with every day after 9/11 the odds of

us getting hit haincreased. as you were just told, this isn't just a matter of rolling out of iraq and i wonder if we are overestimating our ability to do so. we tend to do that. are we going to follow them into syria and are we capable of keeping them out of the united states? we have already had remnants of isis in the united states. we had a young man come down to florida and visit his family and go back to syria and blew himself up. it's a scary time. this is a tough nut for the president to crack and he has been underestimating a lot of things on the world stage the last few months. he can't under estimate this threat. >> no. this appears to be the threat that is is not capable or should never be underestimated because it's danger. i don't think can be overestimated because of its goals. we heard michael leiter ask the question how far does this go.

do we have to go to syria because this is the root of the problem? that was part of a fascinating debate. team of rivals this weekend just became rival. >> yeah. hillary clinton amazing in this interview with "the atlantic" magazine looking to distance herself perhaps from the foreign policy of the administration she once served. in an interview she praised the president but said great nations need organizing principles and don't do stupid stuff is not organizing principle. >> stunning. >> a reference to the president. a cleaned up reference to the slogan reportedly used at the white house on how to approach foreign policy. clinton touched on the factor to leading to widespread violence in syria saying the failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who are the originators of the protest against assad left a big vacuum which the jihadists have now filled. in an early interview president obama rejected the idea of

changing rebels could have changed the course of what happened there. >> with respect to syria, it's always been a fantasy, this idea that we could provide some light arms or even more sophisticated arms what was made up of former doctors, farmers, pharmacists and so forth and they were able to battle, not only a well-armed state, but also well-armed state backed by russia, backed by iran, a battle hardened hezbollah. that was never in the cards. >> sam stein, there is nothing that makes me sadder democratic on democratic violence. this is hurtful. it is pretty stunning in the middle of the military operation to be reading headlines like this where you have his last secretary of state calling him a failure and you have the president call his last secretary of state and possibly next democratic nominee for president living in a fantasy

world. failure versus fantasy. but i think probably, the most stunning part of that a lot of ways hillary clinton could have done that, but as we say in the south, she was just sticking a sharp stick in his eye when she brought up that really embarrassing quote about don't do stupid stuff. that was a blind side right there. >> i don't know if she called him a failure per se but she did stick it in the side. >> his policy in syria was failure i. this is what everybody has been waiting for on what plank would clinton try to distance herself from obama and it makes sense that it's foreign policy at this juncture because of what is happening across the globe. obviously, the headlines are terrible for the president and the administration and it makes sense. also it sort of goes by her history. she has always been perceived as

probably is much more militant and willing to use force, i should say, in foreign crises than the president and she runs risks doing this. you can hear the groans from members of the democratic party after this interview wpublished withever go evejeffrey goldberg. with respect to the president now it makes sense to break with him because of all that is happening across the globe. >> carol, you've covered the white house and learned a lot probably about the relationship between the president and the former secretary of state hillary clinton. how long has this been bubbling beneath the surface? how long have they served parted ways on these certain matters of foreign policy? >> well, i think if you look at when she was secretary of state during her tenure, she differed with the president on a number of things.

sam is absolutely right. she was seen as much more hawkish on nearly every foreign policy debate they had in the white house. and particularly on syria, you know, some of us have been watching this, been waiting for this moment when she would do this because this was the biggest split that they had where she, three years ago, was really pushing for arming the rebels and the white house was pushing back and saying, you know, we don't know who these guys are and they are not even capable of using the weapons if we were to give them to them. they really wanted to step back. that was at odds with some of president obama's senior staff. so, i mean, what is really interesting about this is that it's hard to prove the negative. it's easy for her to say this now, and easy for the president to stick to his line outbut it was inevitable she was going to do this. >> bobby, when i read this, i thought hillary clinton understands what other foreign

policy leaders have been saying for the past months or two. yes, the plane crash over ukraine was horrific. and that all diverted our eyes. and what happened in the middle east, absolutely terrible. you could do nothing in july, but look at the horrible images coming out of the middle east and coming out of gaza. all along, foreign policy experts had said watch isis, watch iraq, watch the meltdown in the middle east because this is what is, as ron said, this is what makes us less safe every day. it's almost as if hillary clinton understands this is all going to circle back to syria and so the blame game has already begun for a crisis that is sure to come. >> well, it's a terrible thing to say about a situation that has taken nearly 2,000 lives. what happened in gaza was the past reasserting itself. what you're seeing in ukraine, again, is old russia trying to reassert itself. isis represents a threat of

today and tomorrow. this is something existential not only for those tiny communities that are exposed on that mountain in iraq but a poison gas and virus and use any number of expressions, this will be for us a long time to come. the longer we ignore it, the worst it has become. yes, these are no the nazis that they eventually became but the reason the nazis became the supreme evil was because for a long time the world did nothing. czechoslovakia, we did nothing. he took a little bit of this and that. we did nothing. we are at a risk of doing the same thing with isis until literally last week. >> michael leiter, final thoughts. >> i think the president has to make a case more strongly that we have to be in this for the long haul. we have long-term interests in

iraq. we have long-term interests in the region and we have long-term interests of not being a defensive crouch on counterterrorism and that is going to require the u.s. and our allies to be deeply involved in iraq and syria, despite the fact that it may be deeply unpopular. >> all right. michael leiter, thanks so much and sam, ron, carol, bobby, stick around with us. still ahead on "morning joe," thomas friedman is here fresh off his exclusive interview with the president. you just saw a portion of that. the former u.s. ambassador to iraq under president obama. ambassador james jeffrey asking what he thinks is to blame for the situation there. nascar star tony stewart hits and kills another driver on the track. my gosh. we will break it down for you. what exactly what happened? and what happens next. rory mcilroy cannot be stopped. highlights. his dramatic come from behind victory to beat phil mickelson and rickie fowler.

first, bill karins is back from his long vacation. hey, bill. >> one holes and week straight in the casinos, willie. good morning, everyone. i hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. summer still going well on the eastern seaboard. had a lot of storms to deal with down along the gulf. as we head through this week, this is the same weather pattern all summer long. another shot of cool air heading for the great lakes and out ahead of that a good chunk of rain. if you're driving this morning, milwaukee to chicago heading over through southern michigan up to grand rapids you're in the rain this morning. maybe even a few thunderstorms. eventually this will sweep to the east coast. as far as the northeast goes today, another beautiful day. summer-like. low humidity. enjoy it. temperatures in the mid-80s because it gets cooler after this. looks like storms arrive tuesday afternoon. airport plans could be delayed from new york city to d.c. tuesday afternoon. the rest of the southeast today, you're looking for isolated storms. still very hot and dry in many areas of the west. the good news, the best of all!

we are heading into the peak of the hurricane season and there is nothing brewing at all! that is fantastic. we leave you with a shot -- oh, what a gorgeous sunrise. did you see that super moon last night? that was pretty cool too. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ did you hear the news came across the air today ♪

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a probe is under way after a dramatic crash involving nascar driver tony stewart left another driver dead. on saturday during a sprint car race in upstate, new york, kevin ward jr., spun out racing side-by-side with stewart. you see it there. ward gets out of his car apparently angry gesturing toward stewart and seemingly

looking for a confrontation. another car swerved to avoid him but as stewart came around, his car struck ward killing him. sparing you from seeing it there. st stewart's spokesman said he would be racing on sunday but a few hours later, stuaewart saide would sit out of the race, sailing the following. police have questioned stewart. they say the three-time champion is being cooperative. they have not, though, ruled out criminal charges. they also said they have no reason to suspect criminal intent there. joining us now is cnbc brian sullivan and "morning joe" derrick kitz who has followed racing and been in his family many years. >> you guys have both raced and this is what your dad drives.

>> yeah. >> let's start with a couple of things first of all. brian washings was tony stewart, nascar star, we see him on sundays, why was he racing on this dirt track in upstate new york? >> this is what he does. a year ago he was racing these cars and flipped his car and compound fracture of his leg and sat out the rest of the nascar season. people said please keep racing these kind of cars. he said i'm a racer and this is what i do. he took his race team and did this saturday night feature and it ended in tragedy. >> i was asking derrick a lot of questions, what was it? on friday? >> yes. >> thursday and friday. we were talking about danica patrick. they say tony stewart does everything because what he does. he is a great driver and can do it all. let's set a couple of things up. first of all, ward, this poor

man who died the other night. he came on the road pointing and yelling and it looks bizarre to us. and, yet, tony stewart has done that himself. you sit there going, don't they tell them to stay in the cars? >> at every race, they start with a pit meeting and drivers meeting. everybody gathers and the pit boss goes over the routine saying if you're in a wreck or spin out or you're injured stay in the car. it's the safest place on the track. it's standard operating procedure, stay in your car is the safest place. especially in the night and the track wasn't very well lit. >> they say tony stewart probably didn't see him because so much mud up on the windshield which makes it even more dangerous to run out into the middle of the track. >> so two things at play there. one, the helmets these guys wear have what is called a tearoff. they have about 8 to 10 then plastic sheets and a button that will tear off because their

visibility gets so impaired and they can't see. that is standard. they have to preserve these throughout the race. who knows at what point in time tony stewart was on his tearoffs. he could have had a perfectly clean one or impaired tearoff. you don't know. so many factors. especially when you're at the apex of one of that turn which is one of the most dangerous spots. >> willie, also looking at tony stewart, you have to look at tony stewart. this is a guy known for road rage and known for running out in the middle of the track throwing his helmet at other people. he has got a long history of this. >> he has been on the other end and we have to be careful between making a leap him going after another ki and targeting this guy. >> right. >> let's look at a little history of road rage in nascar. >> tony not very happy. >> we know what tony thinks. >> we were mad after that restart. checked up twice to not run over him and i learned my lesson

there. i will run over him every chance i got. >> you get your helmet back. your aim was precise. >> i don't give a crap. >> tony, your respect of what happened. >> the kid is an idiot. he wins one cup race and he took us down to talladega twice. i'm curious what that idiot is thinking down there. i don't think he knows what he is thinking. >> after tony went over to question and did more than that. got a swing in there. let's see what steve burns came up with. >> tony, what angered you at the end of the race? >> what the hell do you think i was mad about? he bulb he drives like a little bulb i'm going to bust his ass. >> thank you, tony. >> a lot of threats there. there is that clip that made us all flinch when he said i'm going to run over him every chance i get. he is an angry man. >> listen, i think that is a

little racing talk there. i don't think he is implying he is going to run over him physically. >> but tony stewart has always been a hot-head. >> no question. >> he is not the only one. >> yeah. >> so what is his future, brian sullivan? so much of this depends on your sponsorships. >> yeah. gasoline powers the engine and money powers nascar. the question is going to be no matter what the outcome of this -- by the way, i've been racing for 30 years. this is the worst thing i've ever seen. whether or not mobile one, bass pro shops, go daddy, whether they come back to him. stewart is unique. he is the only major driver that owns his team. no charges have been filed but whether or not you pay your money to put your name on his hood. >> was there anything exceptional either of you saw in the wreck? >> no, he drifted up. he's on dirt. >> in fact, i was talking to you earlier. i said it looked like a clean pass. it looked like a clean pass.

>> which means tony stewart goes past him fair and square. >> if you look at the video, i'm not even convinced he necessarily made contact. >> brian, when stewart is making a clean pass like that, that is where you slow down, let the other guy go past you and you're going to get him at the next turn. >> especially in open-wheel racing where it's so dangerous as you can see. >> on that sharp turn. >> listen. some people over the weekend brought up some great point and a lot of awful speculation out there too. was there any history between these guys? like, i don't know. was there? did tony stewart have a go popr? what is getting the attention is, i can't hear if you have the audio up or not, you can audible hear the engine rev. is there a chance he is checking stuff. looks up. there is the guy. >> the guy is coming out pointing for at least four or five seconds. >> here is the other thing.

there's been speculation about the cars made revving their engines. the fact is the cars have to rev their engines during the caution flag because if they don't the tires fill up with mud and no traction and the tires cool down and it's standard operating procedure and you'll see it all the time. >> we don't have time, but, my gosh, rory, that guy is on fire. >> my gosh. did you watch late last night? they didn't finish until almost 9:00, the pga championship. rory mcilroy wins third turned in a row and fourth career major. two in a row. this is the scene on the 18th hole last night as he putted in to win there. a one-stroke victory. a great sunday. phil mickelson was there all day and finished a stroke back. rickie fowler incredible season of his own finishing in the top five in all four majors. a great sunday. now you can say rory mcilroy the last couple of years and had some struggles and i think the next tiger thing probably got to him.

he is there now. he joined jack and tiger as the three youngest since 1934 to reach four career majors. so he's on that trajectory now. >> how many strokes would you give mcilroy? scarborough, mcilroy, head-to-head, 18 holes. >> it depends what year. >> course of your choice. >> where would i go? willie, i won the masters in '87 the year after mickelson. >> who could forget? ." because mickelson wins in '86 the shadow of jack nicklaus. guys, thank you for coming. coming up next on "morning joe," authorities nap a 20-foot python in a florida neighborhood. we will explain the strange capture next. outrage in st. louis while the death of mike brown is compared to the trayvon martin tragedy. more "morning joe" straight ahead. ♪

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♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." let's take a look at some of the morning papers for you. "the new york times" officials for the w.h.o. say the number of those infected with ebola has risen to 1,825 it in the four

african countries of and nancy writebol will return home this week. she and kent brantly are treated in the united states. they will be quarantined for 21 days. the average incubation range for the virus. the ft. wayne journal gazette. new report says 18 u.s. companies hold 36% of the nation's wealth. that is 27% jump from 2009. in addition, the wealthiest top 20% hold 89% of total cash, leaving only 11% for firms on the bottom of the list. companies among the top 1% including microsoft, apple, coca-cola and boeing. >> from our parade of papers. "the baltimore sun." 24 passengers stranded 80 feet above ground after a roller

coaster stopped at six flags of america in maryland. it took firefighters five hours shra -- >> oh, my lord. >> five hours to remove all passengers from the ride. joker's jinx. they were removed one-by-one with a bucket lift. only minor injuries and back pain and dehydration were reported and unclear what caused that ride to stops. yikes! >> amazing. they gave them umbrellas to shade them through the sun as they were going through all of that. wild one. 75 feet in the air. the breakfast story you must see. capturing a 12-foot long python accused of eating neighborhood cats. it took several police officers to remove the 120-pound snake from the pushes! there is currently an infestation of pythons in

florida in the everglades these snakes can lay up to about 80 eggs each spring! >> wow. >> they really are great for breakfast. >> hide the colonel. >> also from florida, the orlando sentinel. a 9-year-old boy is lucky to be alive after surviving an attack from a nine-foot long, 85-pound alligator. this is our florida block. >> my lord! >> the boy says he was swimming in a lake when he felt something latch on to his leg. he was able to hit the gator and causing it to let go and allowed him to swim to shore. doctors treated him for three different bites. 30 teeth marks. scratches as well and removed a gator tooth from one of the wounds. left a tooth in the boy! >> wow. >> the 9-year-old is expected to make a full recovery. >> you're supposed to punch it in the snout. >> i think he did. the kit jacked him in the snout and saved his own life. >> shark week started last

night. i don't know if that is big around your house. >> oh, yeah. >> but at my house, it's huge. >> it keeps getting better. >> kate and jack, jack is a little scared by it all at 6. but he's hanging in there. but it's shark week. i tell you what, my kids start talking about shark week four months ahead of time. it's unbelievable! >> like christmas. >> it is! it will be like may and they go, daddy, shark week is soon. next week? no, august 10th. it's on calendar in our house! >> another thing taken over by hollywood. the casting has gotten better and better on the sharks and finding better ones. >> they are looking for neg negladawn? >> i won't tell my kids that. >> maybe they will find him this year at the end of shark week. coming up, what does president obama think is the biggest difference between democrats and republicans? >> overall, if you look at the

democratic consensus, it's a pretty common sense mainstream consensus. it's not a lot of wacky ideological nonsense and fact based on reason based. >> that's the president of the united states? oh, lord! we are reasonable and rational. them, you know he? it's witchcraft. holey cow. i can't wait to ask thomas friedman who is coming on to talk about that interview. up next, from the south of france. have you got your teletype? is it coming in? ding! mika's must read opinion pages coming up and straight off the cable from the south of france. we will be right back.

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like the south of france. >> from the casino royale. off the teletype from mika. >> she is reading "the new york times." writing about back to iraq. from the sunday times, maureen writes it felt bracing to see american pilots trying to save innocence in a country we messed up so badly that it's not even a country my nor, some critics warn it was not a military strategy and almost worse than nothing as john mccain put it. the latest turn of the screw in iraq also underscored how we keep getting pulled back godfather style without even understanding the kuverculture. it creates even more monsters. the united states has taken military action in iraq during at least 17 of the last 24 years. the ultimate mission creep in a country smaller than texas on the other side of the world. what better symbol of the middle east quicksand than the fact

that navy planes took off for their rescue mission two years after president obama declared in war in iraq over from the george h.w. bush aircraft. >> high ironic the president who got elected finding the only guy out there against the last war in iraq is back now in iraq which should show us just how badly the situation has deteriorated. >> yeah. it's probably the biggest disappointment to him. i mean, it's a personal disappointment of his presidency. and this is something that he never wanted to do and, as you mentioned, he campaigned on 2012. i traveled with him extensively during that time. the draw down in iraq was a number one pause line for him and they really touted it. i remember traveling with vice president joe biden in 2011 when he did the trip to end the war. he said we have turned lemons into lemonade. this is a place they never thought they would be.

if you look at what the president said when he first spoke on this, he practically apologized for taking military action. as you saw on saturday he is back saying, well, this could be a lot longer. i think he has got some explaining to do on this part. >> it's accelerating, too, willie. by the way, i support the president. we go in and we do the bombings to save a lot of people from grisly death, but this morning, we wake up to the breaking news that he is now arming the kurds directly. so looks like he is moving towards being all in. said i guess this weekend said we could be there months. >> he said this is going to take a long time. ron, recent history said you can't dip your toes into the waters of war. if you're in for a dime, you're in for many in case. >> we had to face the fact we were not honest as a country as

we got into iraq and we weren't very smart how we got out. we can't do anything about the former so we have to deal with the latter. the problem the president has it was just a few months ago where he called this threat j.v. was only a couple of years ago when he said we're pulling the troops out because iraq is stable and safe and sovereign. he just admitted he blew the call on libya that he underestimated what happened after we got rid with gadhafi and he underestimated putin and what happened after mubarak was chased out. as i said earlier, he can't underestimate the threat now. but it's not an easy call for him to make. >> no. but i tell you what, i think the fact that the president has said what he said about isis and other groups and the fact he is going in now, should show the american people just how serious this threat is and just how serious this president has to take it. no politician likes admitting they were wrong and what the president is doing here. but, again, shows how serious

things are and how much things have deinvolvvolved in the midd east. another unarmed black teen is gunned down and a community is demanding answers as overnight protests become violent. we will have the latest on the shooting death that is causing outrage and unrest in st. louis. don't go away. we will be right back. (vo) get ready!

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welcome back to "morning joe." tensions boiling over in the st. louis suburb of ferguson, missouri. a police officer shot and killed unarmed black man on saturday. police were in riot gear last night as a vigil for 18-year-old michael brown turned violent. witnesses reported seeing people looting and setting fires and smashing windows. nbc john yang has more on what is bringing this missouri community to a tipping point. >> reporter: on the streets of ferguson, missouri, outrage and anger. >> no justice! >> no peace! >> reporter: protesters of difference ages and races demanding answers in the shooting death of 18-year-old michael brown at the hands of a policeman. investigators said at about noon saturday, the officer who hasn't been identified encountered

brown and another man on the street in an apartment complex. there was a struggle and one of the men pushed the officer into his car. >> within the police car there was a struggle over the officer's weapon. there was at least one shot fired within the car. >> reporter: the struggle spilled out onto the street where brown whom investigators say was not armed was fatally shot. >> police shot this man for no reason. >> reporter: p.j. crenshaw who took this cell phone video says she saw the shots from her apartment balcony. >> he is running this body and his body this way and hand in the air and being compliant. he gets shot in the face and chest and goes down and dies. >> reporter: witnesses say brown's body play in the streets for hours. >> i'd like everybody here to appreciate that it took a very long time yesterday to process this scene. >> reporter: the shooting sparked a furious reaction. police responded in force brandishing assault rifles. >> give the serenity. >> reporter: michael brown graduated from high school

earlier this spring and was to begin college next week. his mother has a message for the officer who killed him. >> you not god and you don't decide you take something here. if that is the case i brought him here and should take him from here. that was mine that belonged to me. >> the justice department that responded to calls for a federal investigation attorney general eric holder has instructed civil rights thorns to monitor developments. we have learned the same attorney who represented the family of trayvon martin will now represent the family of michael brown in this case. it looked like there were witnesses there and we heard the young woman give her account of what happened there. you wonder if there is some video. >> if she has the video of the young man lying in the street, i wonder when she start to hit record. >> if there is a camera on the police car that may have

intermediate the struggling. as a general rule you don't push police officers into the cars and we need to get the whole story. there was a terrible tragedy, especially an unarmed young man being shot. >> it's terrible. a lot more details to come on that story. ahead, hillary clinton comes out with her biggest critique yet of president obama, this time of foreign policy while his former secretary of state is speaking out straight ahead. up next, sarah palin tries taking on elizabeth warren over fast foot wages. >> really? >> it goes about the way you expect it to go. "news you can't use" is next. let me get this straight... [ female voice ] yes?

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i don't think we are going to solve this problem in weeks if that is what you mean. i think this is going to take some time. the iraqy security forces to mount an offensive and mount the effective in sunni areas are going to have to revamp and get resupplied and have a clear strategy. but this is going to be a long-term project. >> that's the president talking about a lot going on right now in iraq. u.s. officials say the obama administration is directly arming kurdish fighters in iraq and news broke overnight. american aircraft pound targets there and struggle over the control of the iraqi government about complicating the crises whatever is easy in iraq? a fourth round of air strikes carried out against the group known as the islamic state. four air-drops to 4,000 displaced iraqis. the president said over the

weekend the air strike campaign may last for months. once again ruling out ground troops, the president did, he is now dealing with this internal problem. iraq's prime minister is accusing the country's new president of staging a coup. al maliki is face ago third term but facing calls to resign. he gave a televised speech last night saying he is not going anywhere. >> yes, you are. >> special forces to support al maliki were sent to key areas around baghdad. u.s. officials support iraq's new president and are alarmed by the tone of al maliki's speech. joining us now is nbc news white house chief foreign correspondent, andrea mitchell. >> a lot of concern. >> yeah. one second, andrea. senior fellow for national security studies max boot. author of "invisible armies." associate professor dominique

tierney. and with "time" magazine, michael crowley and sam stein is still with us from washington. >> thank god. >> a full house. andrea, let me get back to you. set the stage a little bit for people just kind of waking up on a monday morning, what happened over the weekend in iraq? >> well, what happened was really last night. maliki is threatening to stay and has ordered his loyal army, even if it's around baghdad, there is real concern there could be political violence today. not from isis, but from maliki's forces. so how can they fight isis with maliki supposedly in the last week letting iraqi forces work the u.s. in a coordinated fashion to save the peshmerga and the kurds. >> maliki can't stay. none of this works with maliki stays. this, obviously, is surprising to a lot of people the thought that one foot was already out the door. is maliki suggesting something

more troubling. >> yes. >> what is maliki suggesting? >> he was suggesting by saying that the army, well, to him, supports the constitution. he was suggesting just as the shiite coalition was getting together to choose a prime minister and finally complete this governing process without maliki having a third term. maliki was suggesting basically a coup and that is what caused enormous alarm last night among top u.s. officials reaching out. they are -- the intel people were working, you know, very, very early this morning to see exactly what his intentions are. >> maybe we should just let the egyptians annex iraq. max boot, it's never easy in iraq. the president of the united states did what he felt like he had to do. talk, if you will, how bad had the situation come until the bombing began and what progress were we making? >> i think the situation, joe,

is about as bad as you can imagine, because here you had this fundamentalist islamist state before 2001 they had taken control of a substantial portion of syria, as well as iraq. >> we show this map, max. they actually control an area larger than the entire nation of jordan. >> exactly. larger than new england. it's a pretty horrifying scenario. they were starting to carry out genocide against the christians and threatening erbil. they were marching on baghdad. my question is do we have a strategy driving owner intervention and i would point you to the words of napoleon who said if you start to take vie a vienna, take vienna. in other words, when fer going to fight these guys, let's do it

for real and a way to have a strategy to destroy isis. >> willie, we always say that. if you're going to take vienna, take vienna. that is a pretty good quote. i think i'm going to use that. >> michael crowley, let's talk about the strategy going forward here. this appears to, the air strikes appear for the time being to give kurds time and space to repel isis. but what next? because isis is not going away. maybe they have pulled back from this region but they will pop up in other places and they exist obviously in many other places throughout the region. what is the over arcing strategy for the white house here? oftentimes if you're in once, you're in for a lot more. >> yeah. i think the overarching strategy is for us to not get too deeply involved, at least militarily. a big part of it is to use proxies. in other words, get the kurdish fighting forces, called the peshmerga and that translates those who face death and have a

record as fierce fighters try to supply them. they were outgunned by i shortstop and can we let them take the lead in the night up in the north. the u.s. is working to restart that anbar awakening that was so pist pivotal in turning around the iraq war and in many cases, you know, we basically bribed them to do that. those tribes are very frustrated and disillusioned with maliki right now and have made common cause again with al qaeda style groups but we are trying to reverse that and replay that. finally to get some kind of political reconciliation in baghdad which is probably the hardest component of all as we have seen in the previous conversation about this move maliki is pulling and still a work in progress.

>> we have syria in play here. when we talk about what is taking place with bashar al a assad. what isis means specifically in syria and how that is overlapping in the border regions there so explain that dynamic and what takes place as we, back here at home, watch washington, d.c. president bush said they were not into nation building but that is what we have come now. a country trying to oversee nation building everywhere. >> right. here in the cradle of civilization, we have seen a decent and it has created a tremendous challenge for the obama administration. assad in syria has, in many ways, cultivated the rise of isis as a deliberate strategy to radicalize the opposition and actually help themselves stay in rule. now isis has swept into iraq. it's a huge challenge. the obama administration has responded with a policy

basically of containment. the idea is not to try to destroy isis but stop them from expand beyond the kurdish region and is there a long-term strategy? i think the destruction of isis will not come from the united states but come more from internal dynamics within the jihadist and sunni communities. >> we talked about this last hour, andrea mitchell. a lot what is going on right now with hillary clinton. obviously, fascinating articles where she is distancing herself from barack obama, especially on the issue of syria. >> right. >> but in this interview with jeffrey goldberg of "the atlanta" she praises the president but says great nations need organizing principle and don't do stupid stuff is not an organizing principle. i thought that cleaned up reference to a slogan the president used. it's pretty stunning.

it's almost like hillary understands, like most foreign policy experts we have talked to over the past month understand, that isis is the beginning of a great unraveling of the middle east. >> they understands it and understood it then. this is a little politically thought. the president is doing exactly what americans want him to do according to every poll. he is not getting engaged. he did not get in engaged in syria a year ago where he said he would get -- if the red line were crossed by assad and when the chemical weapons were used. i think what is really hurting him people want him to stay out of these foreign entanglements but they want him to be a leader. what hillary clinton is trying to do here is show the distinction she had the vision, if you will, that syria was the heart of it and if they did not

arm the so-called rebels fublet th if you believe that they were he said it was a fantasy. one other thought here, joe, and all of the gang, there is no way that, aside from containment and this will be a long-term project if this is supposedly containment of isis but if they want to get to isis they have to go through syria. that is where the foreign fighters are coming to join and they know that. >> they have to go to syria and, obviously, hillary clinton talking about this and talking about syria and talking about all of this foreign policy actually shows that she understands part of the great unraveling. a lot of fingers are going to be pointing and she -- you know, it certainly is clear that she is seriously contemplating a run for president of the united states or else she wouldn't distance herself in such a striking way. willie? >> sam, so much of the

president's legacy, he hopes, i think will be on getting the united states out of the war in afghanistan and iraq. he called iraq war a dumb war if you go back to 2006 and 2007. something he has always been against. does he run the risk of getting america reengaged in iraq? we are on a limited basis right now, but could it grow from here? >> well, if you take him at his word, there is going to be no ground forces sent to iraq so there are limits i guess what the policy will bring us. you're absolutely right and andrea is absolutely right. the popular thing is what the president's policy was which is get out of iraq and leave afghanistan. there's, obviously, debate over whether or not he should have fought harder for a forces status agreement to leave the troops there and what good that would have gone. but if you talk to the white house and if you talk to the administration officials today, they say, you know, these decisions aren't done in vacuums. for instance, arming the syrian

rebels. they point out that they armed the iraqi military. they trained the iraqi military and gave them sophisticated weaponry and what good did it do when they had to go up against isis? they ran and went away. i thought the most important thing that the president told tom friedman was his biggest regret is what happened in libya which is they got rid of gadhafi did you didn't envision what happens tomorrow. how do you reconcile the turmoil in iraq with the objectives of pushing back isis in the northern provinces. >> isn't it something as we move forwards another democratic fight for the presidency, willie, that hillary clinton, if there is somebody that rises up to run against her from the left, is once again, going to be painted as the hawk, at the neocon? the very thing that gotter be h beaten in 2008 she is not

running away from. she is racing to. >> remember a race between her and rand paul. >> i said sometimes she is a neocne neocon neocon. it's hard to find a conflict or a debate in the white house where hillary clinton didn't support some sort of military convention or at least the strongest, toughest stand. >> as carol lee pointed out the last hour there were conflicts when she was secretary of state disagreeing with the president on many of these issues and now coming out into the public eye. we have nbc news correspondent keir simmons live in erbil. what is happening on the ground there right now? set the stage for us, keir. >> reporter: good morning. thanks. what is happening here is the fighting continues about 20 miles from this city of erbil and we are hearing the u.s. has now decided to deliver arms to the kurdish peshmerga forces who

are fighting isis in this area and that will be hugely welcome and through the weekend they will be pleased with that. through the weekend, they do appear to have made some gains working on the back of those u.s. air strikes, they managed to regain control of a number of key towns on the roads out of erbil here. perhaps that is a tipping point. isis thrives on fear. that is one of its weapons, as well as its armor and its guns. practic perhaps the u.s. air strikes are building the confidence here and allowing them to push isis back. at the same time, i circumstances is sophisticated. they are strategic and they will be thinking about when their next move is. there is a lot of heads that will be considering what next move to make. isis' issue will be effectively what president obama has indicated any time they move armory on the roads, the u.s. will move to attack those positions.

so isis needs to rethink what you can expect they will reattack somewhere in iraq at some point. >> obviously, those air strikes helped pushing isis back there. what are the people on the street hope for from the united states going forward as isis moves in around them? >> can i just comment looking at keir's shot, i never expected it to like it does. this city, you could be in the middle of europe right now. it seems to be insulated from the hell going on all around it. set the stage there. >> reporter: yeah. i mean, you know, people are going about their normal business. they are frightened. they were terrified. you're right. this is a city of 1.5 million people and it is increasingly westernized. the u.s. consulate is here and the reason president obama i think felt had he to act. i think people are more confident as a result of that air strikes and the news that the u.s. will deliver weapons to

the kurdish fighters and give them confidence. iraq is now a divided country. if you move over towards baghdad where nuri al maliki, the prime minister, is refusing to resign, there is a much more greater sense of fear. i was there just weeks ago. it is a different atmosphere there. even compared with here in erbil now, and the question about those divisions in iraq, it is within that divided country, the isis was able to thrive. that is still a glaring issue, even despite this u.s. intervention. >> keir, thank you so much. great deal appreciate it and be safe. bring in chris jansing who is live from martha''s vineyard in another world. president obama is spending quite a distance from elbil but, obviously, the president, the white house sent out some fascinating information several hours ago. the united states is going to directly arm the kurds.

what are you examine pg to hear from the president today? >> well, we don't know if we will hear from the president himself today. they have been setting up and sort of giving us a little indication that we might hear from some of his national security team. maybe his deputy national security adviser ben rhodes. i had a long conversation with him last night and to pick up on what keir was just saying. this is critical the whole nuri al maliki piece of this. they believe in order to create a situation where the u.s. doesn't have to be involved militarily and the president has already said this is an open-ended mission they have to get a new prime minister in there and they have to get somebody who at least that a chance of bringing the different factions together. right now nuri al maliki is not that person. i won't say they are surprised. they knew and he had continued to show signs he was going to fight to stay prime minister, but that is what they really are focusing very closely on right now. that, in addition,, obviously, to what we are seeing in the air both the air drops and the air

strikes that military mission. joe? >> willie? >> andrea, if you're still here, it's interesting. we bring you into the mix with chris here. hearing the president and others talking about all we need in iraq is a unity government. that's not so easy. we have been trying to do that for a very long time. al maliki wasn't willing to do it. what are the prospects for that if that is the solution in iraq, what are the prospects? >> it's really tough. they have just announced that the deputy speaker of the parliament has been chosen to replace maliki. they were working on this last night. we were on the phone with officials as they were tracking it. now, it's very unclear whether maliki will let this new coalition survive, whether he will cling to power and whether this will, in effect, be with a coup. clearly we not only backed the wrong guy in iraq but then supported him and turned a blind eye to the fact he was excludeing sunnys. year one he was throwing them out and stopping their payments to the tribal leaders that

petraeus and u.s. embassy had carefully cultivated during the sunni arising. that was the key to the american withdrawal. all of those sunni tribal leaders were completely excluded by maliki and many joined isis and provided the critical strategic help that isis needed in its initial march toward baghdad. >> max, let me ask you quickly. what does the next move need to be from the white house? >> well, i think we need a concerted strategy for breaking the grip that isis has on a significant portion of iraq and syria. and talking about containment i don't think is good enough. what are you saying with containment? we are content to have this exist as long as it doesn't take erbil? i think we need to work with the pressure ma peshmerga and bolstering our military footprint on the ground and having a real counter attack has a military as well as a political component that will break the hold of isis.

i mean, the bottom line is the situation is pretty serious right now. but it is still recoverable. it is still possible to swing the momentum against them as we did, in fact, in 2006 and 2007 during the serge. we have to do it without all of the u.s. troops on the ground but i think it's still possible to do it but we need a strategy and we need the resources necessary to do that instead of just saying we are going to limit ourselves to containing them. i don't think that is good enough. >> as willie and i like to talk about if you're going take vienna, take vienna. exactly! >> thank you to all of you. still head a deadly crash involving a nascar driver has the questions being asked was it a an accident or a homicide? plus a preview of the hard-foued mhar hard-fought races up north. a race that is going down to the wire and may determine who runs

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welcome back. a probe is under way after a very dramatic crash involving nascar driver tony stewart left another driver dead. >> that is tragic. >> it really is. we have a lot to talk about on the back side of this. >> it's hard to tell what is going on in that video. >> it's hard to tell but it's interesting because it's not uncommon to see drivers get out of their vehicles and other examples of this but kristen dahlgren is standing by live. >> reporter: the in its investigation no evidence of any criminal intent but you can imagine just how traumatic this was for anyone who is watching the race here on saturday. you mentioned that video. it's so disturbing that we won't show you the whole thing.

but as you guys were talking about this morning, there are a lot of people asking a lot of questions about safety. >> reporter: it was a packed house saturday night. the hum of sprint cars racing around the track. then video posted on youtube shows two cars colliding. one spins out, while the other, driven by nascar legend tony stewart keeps going. the driver of the sideline carp gets out and in the dark appears to point to stewart and walks on the strak toward tony steward. 20-year-old kevin ward junior is hit by stewart's back wheel. he was later pronounced dead at the hospital. stewart is one of the nascar's most popular drivers with a reputation for colorful language and frequent outbursts. he once threw his helmet at another driver after colliding. >> tony stewart can be a hot-head. he gets into arguments with other drivers at times but, you know, typically, it's not really aggressive driving. >> reporter: authorities are examining video of the crash but

say it appears it may just be a tragic accident. >> an investigation is ongoing to try and identify all of the potential factors for this on track crash and subsequent death. >> reporter: stewart pulled out of sunday's nascar race saying, quote, there aren't words to describe the sadness. ward's family is asking for privacy. the young driver started racing go carts at age 4. but most recently took to racing high-powered sprint cars equipped with wings that increase traction on the short dirt tracks. fans of the sport say accidents and drama are a part of racing, but not like this. now, authorities say that stewart is cooperating with their investigation. there's no word yet on when he might race again. guys, as for nascar, it says it will respect the process of local authorities.

>> kristen, joe scarborough here. any talk already about safety changes? >> reporter: yeah. a lot of people talking about it. there has been no official word. you know, we have talked about how common it is to see drivers get out of the car. so a lot of people saying there should be some type of rule that keeps drivers in the car after a crash or when they are upset about something. i've heard this called a watershed moment. even if there aren't official changes, i think it's safe to say drivers will be thinking about this the next time they think about getting out of their cars. >> thank you, kristen. what a tragedy. brian, first of all, you guys -- look. we are bringing in jeff burton an nbc sports analyst covering nascar and also a long time driver on the sprint circuit. thank you for being with us. brian sullivan is here and derrick kitz who are associated with cnbc who grew up racing.

jeff let's first go to. the first question people watching asking is what the hell are these drivers doing getting out of their cars which derrick explained to us last hour, one of the first things your pit crews tell you, if there is a wreck, stay in the car, the safest place to be. why do guys get out an run in the middle of the track and point fingers? >> it all starts with the emotion of the sport. you put so much effort and energy into preparing your car, running the race and all of the things it takes to be a successful driver and when somebody takes something away from you, the chance to win the race or you feel like wrecks your car, it's a very emotional thing. unlike a football player or basketball player where you get up off the floor or the field and approach a guy urchs t, you the only way to show your displeasure is approach the guy in a race car but he's in a moving vehicle. i've done it before. approached a guy under caution and wasn't the smartest thing in

the world. >> jeff, i'm sure you looked at this video like the rev of us a lot. i'm not a big big fan of nascar racing but you look at it and there is even the question of whether the two actually hit each other or not, whether -- jeff, whether they did anything wrong, whether anything was wrong here. >> well, to kevin ward, he felt like tony had done something wrong. again, that goes back to what i said earlier. it's an emotional sport. people care about the results. you put that much effort and energy into something, doesn't go your way, it's very emotional. so tony did crowd him but it's racing. those things happen in racing. you know? it's part of the sport. so, you know, you can -- five people could watch that wreck and five people come up with different ideas. the fact of the matter is you have those things in racing. you do today and you will tomorrow as far as track incidents. the post-wreck incident is the big issue here.

what happened on the racetrack in my eyes is just a racing incident. >> what do you think happened after the accident? what did you see in that video? >> well, i see a young man that is very upset. he is going to express his displeasure. then the video kind of goes away to be honest with you you can't see what happens before kevin gets hit. i've known tony for a long, long time. no way in the world do i believe that tony stewart hit kevin on purpose. i don't believe that. any piece of my body, don't believe that. i just believe you see a tragic accident and i see a lot of emotion taking over and a tragic accident and everybody has to deal with the end result. >> jeff burton, thank you so much. you were talking about how he should have just let him pass. that nothing really was done. tony did nothing terrible in going past it. it looked like a clean pass. in fact, you're looking at the video again. you are wondering whether he actually even hit him or not.

>> i think in viewing the video, you know, it's a classic slide pass. tony got underneath him and slid up. it looked like a clean pass. if it were a clean pass and the young man hit the wall, no reason tony stewart would even know that it was kevin ward that had spun out or that had wrecked when he came back around. if, in fact, there was no contact made. tony would have no reason to understand -- >> yeah. he was passing him. >> he was passed. >> it looked like a clean pass. derek said something last hour about the strips. >> tearoffs. >> the visibility. >> it's dark. it's night. >> he is wearing a dark fire suit. think about also, too, with race car the thing called -- after dale earnhardt was killed it limits you to make sure you don't break your neck as easily. you brought up something off the air. what people don't realize the track is banked and it's made of dirt and clay mixed. you wonder in the video you see

kevin ward look like he is trying to turn. you can see a situation and i'm not trying to steal your point here but he is running down to confront stewart and can't go back up. because it's slippery and steep -- >> racing shoes are like slippers. >> like wrestling shoes. >> very lightweight and thin and made of fire retardant material and only designed for the gas and the brake and no traction on them. if you're running down a bank clay oval like that, to try to stop, oops, i went too far and back pedal could be virtually impossible. >> looks like the last second he tries to turn. >> you guys are saying you look at that video. you just -- you're going fast. and you just don't have that much control. >> that's right. >> a real tragedy. thank you, guys, for being with us. coming up next, control of the senate is going to hang in the balance, obviously, this year. what happens in the 49th state is going to determine who runs the senate next year.

"morning joe" heads to alaska to cover tough re-election fights going on up there. especially for democrat mark begich. we will be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner,

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actually, that was a beautiful shot. here is the capitol. the shot before it was northeast harvard maine. mika summers there. goes between there and the south of france. >> isn't that lovely? >> it is beautiful. it is lovely. you know what? it sort of reminds me of alaska. i'm wondering, thomas, because they get all of these cruises, right? >> i think this is a great idea. >> we are going up to alaska. we are talking about alaska here. i think we need a "morning joe" cruise. >> i love it. >> you know? >> i think it would be great. you could have steve rattner giving power presentations and have him do some light comedy because i think he is funny when he is off camera. >> dr. brzezinski talking about geo situations in the hot buffet line. i'm there. >> i'm there. >> shrimp as big as your head! it would be great. >> i would lead the morning

crunches. >> let's talk about what is going on in alaska. it is one of the key senate races where we have the incumbent mark begich with his hands full. he votes with republican senator lisa murkowski and he mentions it in his newest ad. >> lisa murkowski and mark begich vote 80% of the time. i don't think we should break up that team. i've been a elizabeth lifelong republican. i voted for ted stevens and lisa murkowski and now i'm voting for mark begich. >> senator murkowski is giving him the heisman and wants him to stop and asking him to cease and desist running that ad. his office said he used her likeness without her permission and featuring an alaska voter who is not actually a republican. kasie hunt caught up with him in

anchorage. >> alaskans like what they are working together on. that is factual and talks about 80% of the time we vote together and that is laying out what we have been saying and what alaskans are telling me they love and that is the delegation working together. >> she said that the photo of the two of you together in that ad constitutes a violation of senate rules and federal law. is that the case? >> no, it's incorrect. under the rules you can utilize that photo purchased by the -- >> you don't plan to take the ad down? >> no. i think it's very factual. 80% of the time we vote together and proven today with the f-35 announcement the delegation working together an incredible announcement we made up a couple of days with opening up an incredible bridge. >> according to roll call, mark begich is the fourth most vulnerable incumbent senator in the mid terms. more on the interview coming up tomorrow.

i heard they had an excellent time up there and a lot of reporter stelg. >> kasie does an amazing job. mark only got elect because of some very questionable investigations against who he beat so we will see what happens. i'm focused more on the cruise. >> murkowski was tough on her. we all recall the tough time she went through. >> she had to run as an independent. >> it's fascinating to think she is coming back to say don't conclude me. >> stay away. >> yes, stay away. >> you're breaking federal -- i wish i could say you're breaking federal law by using my photo. >> i bought that fair and clear. >> exactly. still ahead, the real death valley. the major reason undocumented immigrants crossing the border don't make it out lialive. that story is next. [ aniston ] when people ask me what i'm wearing, i tell them aveeno®.

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hot desert of texas while trying to get over the u.s. border. joining us is john carlos frey and neil katz. john, let me start with you. mass graves? >> graechlt. >> yeah. >> mass graves in texas where these people die and get lumped together and thrown into the ground? unbelievable. >> it is unbelievable. in the united states we do have real mass graves in this part of texas. there was a period of time where the body were being processed by private mortuaries and they didn't know what to do with them. if the individual was unidentified or they were skeletal remains, in some cases put them in a trash bag. >> they get across the border and die of dehdehydration? >> they are already the border and this is not at the border. this is 70 miles north. there is a checkpoint. they get out of the car. they have to walk around the checkpoint to avoid this last

sort of area of defense from the border patrol. they walk for about two or three days and the conditions are so harsh that many of them do lose their lives. >> what do they die of? >> dehydration, heat. they get lost. they may be injured and they are in the middle of nowhere and it's hard to find them and hard to find help. >> why did you see this documentary and what john is reporting is showing, improving the hard conditions, personal stories, why did you think that fit with your brand? >> sure. about two years ago, they created a digital documentary unit called weather film where we explore investigative journalism topics that intersect. fundamentally what is killing these people out there is tough weather. there has been near constant drought in brooks county in south texas where this is happening the last five years. the last year, we have had 31 days over a 171 days over 90.

so the heat, the temperature is a major factor and people dying in south texas. >> meanwhile, with the heat in washington, d.c. over the conversation about immigration reform, did you realize how political this was going to be for you and worth.com getting involved in picking a digital documentary like john's? >> yes. >> yes. >> yeah. >> it was part of the -- it's a politically charged topic. classically we don't do political topics on the weather channel. although people are passionate on both sides of it, there is not that much politics in the piece. we don't interview politicians and nothing democratic or republican about it. it's simply we think a tragedy at the border that very few people know about. you're talking about hundreds of migrants that die each year. if we told you a hundred bodies showed up in a texas ranch land of american citizens you would hear an outrage. >> and buried in a mass grave.

any religious organizations out there to help these people? >> there are. how do you get access to the private land to put out water? these individuals are in a thousand square mile area the size of manhattan. so to find them, to find out where to put water or where to provide humanitarian assistance to find a road to access it is pretty difficult. as neil is saying, you're going to find a couple of hundred bodies on a regular basis. >> hundreds of bodies and mass graves, it's a real tragedy. absolutely fascinating documentary. i'm glad you guys are bringing it to life. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. the real death valley debuts this morning on weather.com. john and neil, thank you so much. still ahead, is the past prologue? eight years ago republicans under george w. bush suffered what then the president called a thumpin'. that was during the midterm elections. were president obama's approval ratings lower than his

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so we're talking about nicki minaj. so what? what? >> i don't know. you've got to see the movie "the other woman." >> is that what you and patrick did this weekend? >> that was our lively weekend.

>> pretty exciting. >> pretty exciting. cameron diaz, hot ticket. >> was it a good show? >> a few good laughs. you got to see nicki minaj. >> you hated it, didn't you? >> i can't get that two hours back. >> you said kate upton was in there? >> she was great. i like her. >> was she pretty good? like katherine hepburn? >> they share the same first name. president obama has spent plenty of time on the road this year, raising a lot of money for his party, but he's largely been absent from the campaign trail. derrick kitts draws on recent history to see why democrats are avoiding their own commander in chief. >> if the recent poll is any indication, democrats in congress should be wary of relying on president obama to provide any transaction support. the president sits at 40% approval. if president bush's poll numbers

at the same point of any indication, these midterms could be trouble for the democrats. bush's approval was two points higher and americans had a better attitude about the direction of the country with only 54% believing the country was on the wrong track. most surprisingly, considering the wars in iraq and afghanistan, voters approved of bush's handling of foreign policy more than than they do of president obama. the midterms saw president bush and the republicans lose 31 house seats and 6 senate seats. if that is any indication, president obama and the democrats have a right to be worried. >> sam stein, let's go to you. we signed of go around believing that george bush was at 21%, 22%, harry truman type numbers. even in september before the election george w. bush was a point or two ahead in this poll, a pointing or two behind in

other polls, margin of error basically in the same place. i guess the only question is, is the republican standing so bad this year they won't get the lift that democrats got in '06? >> can i digress for one second? i want to talk about "the other woman." i've heard that is literally the worst movie ever created. i'm surprised that thomas roberts was as kind as he was to it. also derrick, derrick is all over this show today. you know, this is the derrick hour. >> it is the derrick kitts variety hour, i know. he raced forever and now he was -- derrick -- >> derrick has strong points. >> and in politics, derrick was like -- i think he was majority whip in the legislature. >> i just want to say that "the other woman" was on sale on demand for $4.99. >> you would have to pay me to watch it. i would not watch that movie, it looked terrible. >> and you'll never get the two

hours back, thomas. >> i won't. >> i thought you lived an exciting lifestyle. >> we don't. >> you don't? >> boring married people, joe. >> now see, i don't understand why you fight for the right to be married. that's where you end up. >> buying "the other woman" movie. >> you fight for the right to be married so you can be bored on weekends watching the worst movie ever made? >> what have i done? >> and fight to like fight in wars? god, i'm so disappointed. sam, thank you for the analysis, sam. did you have anything to say about this? >> listen, obama is in a terrible position. it's just as bad as george w. bush. democrats have terrible seats. but republicans aren't sitting up pretty either pollwise. >> 19%. >> you just made me understand why inequality rules. thank you, joe. thank you. >> well listen, i'd be glad to switch and straight people to not have the right to be married.

>> okay. >> deal? >> you've already got it. >> they do. i want everybody to have it, though. i mean come on, seriously. >> it's our new motto. straight people don't get married. >> i've been saying for that years. we have a packed hour ahead with new developments in america's mission against islamists. we'll talk to ambassador james jeffrey. also nbc's jim miklaszewski and dan senor who advised american officials during the american occupation. plus we'll check in the president's vacation at mar that's vineyard as he squeezes in some golf while dealing with a long, long list of cry -- kries seize. 's time to bring it out in the open. it's time to drop your pants for underwareness, a cause to support the over 65 million people who may need depend underwear.

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tony stewart just hit that guy! >> a young driver dead and another engulfed in tragedy and controversy. >> there are no facts in hand that would substantiate a criminal charge or indicate criminal intent. >> what do you want? >> on the streets of ferguson, missouri, outrage and anger, after the shooting death of an 18-year-old unarmed black man by a police officer. >> two very different stories coming from other side. >> hands in the air, he's shot and dies. >> fire and the fury of an unfinished war raged in gaza today. israel, determined to strike hamas right up to the start of an agreed truce.

>> fierce fighting on the ground throughout northern iraq. >> american jets and drones took out enemy targets. >> this is going to be a long-term project. >> barack obama is learning again this weekend just how lonely it is at the top. >> there is no policy, there for there's no strategy, therefore, things are going very, very badly. >> we can't wait for the iraqi maliki government to fight isis. my constituents don't want to see another couple hundred people killed by isis. we should do whatever we have to do. >> as you just saw in that clip, i said a couple of hours earlier, that this president, as if he needed any reminding, six years in, got a look this weekend of just how lonely it is at the top, especially when you're running the military of the last remaining benevolent superpower in the world.

with europe still sleeping through a quarter century history vacation, this president just became, get this, the fourth united states president in a row to launch a war in iraq. america has now ordered hostile military operations in that country in 17 of the last 24 years. and this weekend, the harping came from both sides. the president's critics seem oblivious to the growing threat that is posed not even to the middle east but all of the world by isis. republicans who attacked president obama for nothing are now attacking him for doing something. but this time the commander in chief has made his military move because he had no other options. as maureen dowd wrote this weekend in "the new york times," a barbaric force is pillaging so swiftly and brutally across the middle east that it seems like some mutated virus from a sci-fi film. isis is spreading like poison gas across the middle east,

becoming stronger and more dangerous by the day and making president obama's genocide case for him. isis is practicing religious cleansing against christians, against shiites, against unobservant sunnis and against other groups that are now battling genocide for the 73rd time. for isis, religious genocide is not a tool of terror, it is the reason this terrorist war machine exists. as you look at this map, isis now controls a land mass larger than the entire state of jordan. a lot to talk about this morning. with us now, former foreign policy adviser to the bush administration, dan senor, white house correspondent for "the wall street journal" carol lee, james jeffrey and from the pentagon, nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. jim, let me begin with you. some surprising news breaking overnight that we're now arming

the kurds directly. what else are you hearing inside the pentagon? >> joe, the u.s. had been providing the kurds with ammunition through the baghdad government as per u.s. law and agreements with the iraqi military, but now u.s. officials tell us that the cia is directly providing in some weapons, we don't know, we presume they're small arms, even perhaps as high as shoulder-fired weapons of some kind, directly to the kurds bypassing baghdad. but even at that, the kurds are woefully outgunned by those isis forces, you know, who are just a few clicks away from erbil with artillery, armored personnel, tanks, shoulder-fired, gun mounted rockets. there's no way that the kurds can stand up to the isis rebels over any kind of length of time and they have asked for some of these weaponry.

but that doesn't appear to be in the works at all. we have to remember what the president laid out in terms of his current strategy. limited air strikes, which will continue around the erbil area. they have had a little bit of effect. you know, the rebels haven't fled, but they have taken the black flags off their vehicle because they realized it made them easy targets, but that's pretty much the reaction from those rebels so far, joe. >> it's limited, bobby ghosh, but the president started last week by saying i'm going to take care of these people trapped on the mountainside. a lot of people said that's not enough, that's too limited. and i think a lot of us on set were saying last week, well, that's just the first step. the next step we saw was the president bombing isis. people said that's too limited. then we find out overnight the president is now arming the kurds. the president has stepped in and as a guest said last hour, quoting napoleon, if you're

going to take vienna, take vienna. this president, i think, is done with halfway measures when dealing with isis, don't you think? >> i certainly hope so. by saying this is going to take months, he's preparing all of us for this. i mean that goes against all the polls that show this country doesn't want that, but perhaps doing this slowly and gradually is the only political way that he can sell this to an american audience and to congress. >> and ambassador jeffrey, maliki just remains a colossal thorn in america's side. here we go into iraq trying to do what we can to stop this virus from spreading across iraq and the entire middle east and maliki decides to pick this time to say i'm staying no matter what. seems to be suggesting even the possibility of a military coup. >> the news overnight is not very promising, joe. but on the other hand what's happening is the president has to pick a party and a leader of that party to form the new

government after the elections. and that would normally go to maliki's state of law. but what you're seeing is a revolt among his fellow shia members of parliament who know he can't get a majority of votes, particularly from the sunni arabs and the kurds in the parliament but also from many of the shia. this is still a constitutional process. another shia politician and the deputy speaker of parliament is one of the candidates that people are looking at right now, so in the hours ahead, we'll see what president masun does because he has a deadline of today to take a decision on who will form the government. i hope it is not maliki. >> let's bring in right now nbc news senior white house correspondent chris jansing. she's live from martha's vineyard. chris, a lot moving very quickly. what have you heard up in martha's vineyard. >> well, they are focusing very quickly on what's happening in

the decision about what to do about maliki. the president has more people here than he originally planned on this national security team. he has susan rice, who is staying with him, in addition to other national security officials. they're briefing him at least three times a day but obviously this is an ongoing situation. in long conversations that i've had over the last 12 hours or so with administration officials, they say there is nothing that can be done until al maliki is done. until they make a decision that they can bring someone in who they think can bring some level of stability. we all know how fraught that is and difficult it's going to be, but that's the immediate crisis in the next 24 to 48 hours is seeing what happens there and who becomes the new prime minister or if maliki somehow still seems somehow to cling to journal. >> let's bring in carol lee. carol, you followed this president during 2012. you are obviously at the white house every day with this president and listen to what he

and his advisers say all the time. a lot of inconsistencies. this is a president who in 2012 said he wasn't going to be going into iraq, he's getting troops out. he said that's one of the biggest applause lines. his critics are loving his line to repeat that isis is from the jv team. this had to be a really difficult decision for a president that doesn't like to be cornered, doesn't like to be pushed into anything, but it appears that it wasn't his political rivals pushing but history itself. did the president just get to a point where he understood he had no other choice but get engaged? >> yeah, basically he did. you know, the turning point was there was this moment on last wednesday when the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff joined the president in his limo ride from the state department to the white house. they had a five-minute conversation where he just said, look, this is really bad. and that continued into the night on wednesday and by thursday morning his aides were using the word "genocide" to

characterize what could possibly be happening in iraq and the president decided he was going in. but you're right, i mean you followed him too. this is a president who is so reluctant to use force. he's a commander in chief of the largest, most powerful army in the world and he's defined by his reluctance to use it. and that's -- you know, you see that in the way that he initially when he talked to the american public on thursday night saying this is going to be limited, we're not going in with boots on the ground, very cautious, very pinprick and he didn't even say that he was absolutely going to order these strikes, just that he had authorized them. then you see him on saturday and he's saying dig in, we're getting in this for the long haul, this could be long term, we need to find passage for these people to get off of the mountain. and so he went in reluctantly, he presented it in a very limited way and now it's looking like he'll be in there much longer. >> and we heard this weekend we may be in no months.

let's bring in san sedan senor. we've said time and time again, we don't want to be involved in iraq. we don't want to be involved in afghanistan. they have been a lot closer to my position on these matters than yours. we've had these debates long and hard. but at this point i can even say we need to be involved. will you do what a lot of republicans didn't do this weekend and salute the president for being involved? i'm so sick and tired of the same people bitching and moaning about not doing things and when the president does things, instead of supporting things, when we're at a critical moment, they have got to go on the sunday shows and bitch and moan about a president doing what we all know, what realists, what neocon alike understanding, we have to confront isis. will you salute the president for taking these steps? >> i have. i've said several times over the last couple of days that we

should applaud the president for taking the action that he's taken. we have to ask the question, joe, while these steps are important, obviously heading off -- trying to head off the genocide of the yezidis, heading off the march up to erbil and the kurdish areas and obviously protecting american personnel, all of those objectives are critical and the president deserves credit for working to end them. when you take a step back strategically we should also ask the president what is the game plan for that huge swath of territory south of the kurdish area. what about all those people living in a part of iraq that can't rurkurds or yezidi. if isis weren't on the march up to northern iraq, would we be content in letting isis governing this ungovernable space on that side of iraq's

border. a strategic case for the long haul we haven't heard for the president. he began to lay the groundwork in talking about this is going to be a long haul as we discussed earlier and the steps he's taken so far are important. but i think what the american public needs to hear, we are a war-weary public. look at every military action, just about every military action that the u.s. government has taken since world war ii, the american public has always been against it. this is no exception. the president will have to make the bigger strategic case about what the threat of isis means not just in iraq but what it means throughout the region. >> chris jansing, let me go to you. obviously you had joe biden, a very long time ago talking about breaking iraq into three parts. it certainly seems over the past three or four days the president has decided not to really go all in with all of iraq but at least go all in with the kurds. >> yeah, and to the point that

you were just talking about, as i've been talking about senior administration officials they think he's the best person to make that case. when you talk about he needs to explain this, he needs to tell his long-term strategy to the american people, there are definitely people within this administration who are pushing him to do that. they liked what he had to say when he was walking across the lawn and heading here on saturday morning. they think that the american people understand what he's differentiating. they know that they're war weary but they also believe that they understand there is genocide that is threatened there. they also know that our strategic interests are at stake and that the president is the best person to make that case. so i don't think we would necessarily be surprised if we heard from the president over the course of the next couple of weeks more than we have in previous vacations. he's getting a lot of push to do just that. >> you know, bobby, i want you go to the ambassador with a question but first you look at that map. we can't control all of iraq. it has just been an absolute

disaster. but you look at the northern section where the sunni kurds are. you look where the kurds are and that does seem manageable. and i just wonder whether we -- whether we solidify things up north or help the kurds solidify things up north and move towards joe biden's vision of iraq. >> i don't know about splitting iraq up. i think that westerners shouldn't be drawing lines in maps in the middle east. >> that's why we're in this mess. >> that's why we're in this mess. but you make a good point. we've had a long history of protecting get kurds. >> instead of drawing lines, what i'm actually talking about more is controlling the spread of isis. you cut them off at the knees if you make the northern part of iraq a place that at least is a bit more stable. >> we have a long history of protecting that part of iraq. we did it after the kuwait war.

we allowed it to become much more autonomous. it worked for the kurds. it didn't work for the rest of the region. but the crucial thing and this is what i wanted to ask the ambassador. what is the role of the iraqi army? what are they loyal to? are they loyal to maliki? he's brought out the tanks in the streets of baghdad to try and protect, to sort of prolong his prime ministership or this is the army we trained and spent a lot of money on. do you think, ambassador, that this is an army that can be relied upon to take the fight to isis, or are we just expecting the peshmerga, the kurdish fighters, to do that. >> that's a good question. i think it's a qualified yes. the president does have a strategy that he kind of outlined on thursday and then again on saturday. one is counterterror. he's going to make sure isis cannot strike at america or some other interests in the region. secondly and what we're seeing all the action in is he's using

various justifications, our embassy in baghdad, our consulate in erbil and the personnel there. he mentioned infrastructure, critical infrastructure on saturday, he mentioned genocide and groups of people who will be slaughtered or ethnically cleansed by isis. what he's saying is if they come out of the sunni areas that they have occupied and start attacking other areas, they'll have to do this by classic military mobile infantry columns, he's going to strike them with local forces. the iraqi army can be supported and we are supporting them with logistics. eventually if they're in trouble, we might support them with strikes. but to actually take the offensive in these sunni arab areas, he stressed again and again, you need an inclusive government that can reach out to these people. we do not have that now, we will not have that with maliki. that's why all of the attention is on politics. if there's a new prime minister, the army will go with that prime minister.

half of the units are judged by our experts to be relatively combat effective. so there is a base to move forward on the offensive with our air and logistics and their ground forces if we have the political calculus right now. >> let's go back to the pentagon. hey, mik, the cartoon image of generals and admirals in the pentagon are that they're running around power hungry and mad to go back to war. the truth is, of course, the exact opposite. they're the last ones that want to go to war. what is the appetite inside the pentagon right now for going into iraq for, what, the 14th time in like 24 years? >> right now everybody's attention and all the planning going on just a few floors right below me here, all the planning is for these two limited missions. one, to secure that kurdish area and stop the advance by the isis rebels. the other is to protect those yezidi worshippers that are trapped aboard the mountain.

we're told there is very active planning under way as we speak to provide that safe corridor that the president talked about on saturday to help them escape their predicament. right now it looks like it's going to require some help from the british and the french, who the president talked to over the weekend. but in the long term, and, you know, there's always somebody in the building looking at the long term and it does not look very good to u.s. military officials i'm talking to. even if we resolve those two situations and even if isis were somehow contained in iraq, people here are now looking at this as being a 10 to 20-year challenge, joe. >> oh, dear god. thank you, mik. thanks to everybody. coming up on "morning joe," failure versus fantasy. those are the sharply different terms being used by hillary clinton and president obama to describe their views of what went on in syria. hillary says we should have armed the rebels and takes a direct swipe at the president. the president says she's living

in a fantasy world. we're going to be talking to "new york times" columnist thomas friedman who sat down with the president for a revealing interview next. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. as we look towards the west the fire season continues in full swing. we now have 37 large active fires on the ground. last week we had about 27 or so, so we're starting to hit the peak of the fire season out west. this one fire outside of san francisco, not in san francisco of course but about an hour's drive outside of san francisco, only about 35% contained. there is a lot of active flames. the temperatures lately are not helping, and especially in the pacific northwest. today will be a very dangerous day, especially up there in oregon. look how hot it's going to be. the one section of the country, really the only section of the country that's had a hot summer has been the northwest. 99 in portland today, boise at 98. we haven't even come close to those temperatures in even washington, d.c., this summer. as far as the rest of the country, another shot of cool

air coming down from the north. it's not cold but it's definitely not summer-like either. especially at night you feel it. i know we've all saved a lot of money in the east on our ac bills but maybe a couple more beach days would be nice. today in chicago the rain is ending, temperatures will be cooler for you and a lot of rain heading for toledo, also detroit and portions of the ohio valley will get soaked. if you have any travel plans late in the afternoon, those thunderstorms could cause delays in the southeast and also in sections of kentucky. here's a look at chicago. there is beautiful weather on your way, but that's fall, isn't it? 78 and sunny and at night in the 50s. what a crazy summer it's been there in the great lakes after your horrible, horrible winter. we leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. low humidity continues but of course it doesn't have any effect on that miserable traffic. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] we help make secure financial tomorrows a reality

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we are the strongest military, we have the most dynamic economy. the thing that's going to hold us back is going to be us, and if we make good decisions, then we will continue to be not only the dominant power but a benevolent force around the world. >> are we making good decisions, though? because i feel and i look at washington from abroad. it feels like we kick around this country like it's a football, and it's not a football. it's actually a faberge egg. we can drop it, we can break it.

enough dysfunction on all these core issues that you talked about and that's what i worry about. i feel like we're saying to the world do as we say, not as we do, not like we used to. >> i would distinguish between american society and american politics. the truth is that countries should continue to do as we do. we still set a pretty darn good example. >> that was part of thomas friedman's interview with president barack obama, the "new york times" columnist joins us now from pebble beach. you're at pebble beach. i just have to ask a question, thomas. you are getting out golfing at pebble beach, are you not? >> you better believe it, joe. it's vacation time. >> the president can deny it, you will not. it is even no nongolfers, you are in one of the most beautiful parts of the country. so let's talk about your interview with president obama. absolutely fascinating, especially if you team it up

with jeffrey goldberg's interview with hillary clinton. there's a lot of back and forth going on here where hillary is attacking the president for not doing enough in syria. tell us what the president told you about hillary's view that if we had gotten into syria earlier, then things would have been better. what did he call that? >> well, he made a couple of points. he wasn't specifically responding to her. but that, number one, that it was a fantasy to believe that the kind of barely organized opposition there, which was largely professional, secular, middle class people, at the end of the day armed or not would have stood up against an assad regime backed by russia, backed by iran and supported by hezbollah. backed by iran that's had 20 years of building networks of support for the regime there and iran that does not have to worry about congressional oversight. he just believes that in the end they would have eaten them alive

and we just would have ended up getting a lot more people killed or being drawn in ourselves. >> so bobby ghosh is with us and has a quick question for you just to follow up on that. bobby. >> tom, if it was a fantasy then, why is his administration now talking about training and arming the free syrian army? what has changed the calculus? surely the situation has become even more complicated than it was three years ago? >> well, it'mas of their program. so ask yourself this. how is it that 16,000 muslims have marched to syria from all over the muslim world to fight for jihadism and how many have marched there to fight for pluralism. i think i could count them on one. >> and right. tom, obviously the situation now, as bobby just said, a lot more difficult than it was a ye year, year and a half ago. would it have been a less difficult task, a less difficult lift if the president had gone

in earlier? i'm not making hillary's point, i'm not arguing, i'm asking you as a man who's been studying this region longer than most of us, a lot longer than most of us, was there an opportunity missed by the united states of america before 150,000 people were killed? >> let me answer that sort of in a broadway, joe. actually if you look at it, we tried three different options. we tried going in and taking over an entire country, iraq. doing far more than arming the opposition, we took it over with armed military and spent six, seven years, billions of dollars trying to train them. that didn't work. it didn't work because the politics wasn't there. then in libya we said we're not going to do that, we're just going to decapitate the regime and not go in at all. that didn't work because the underlying politics wasn't there. now people are saying that had we just armed the opposition that would have worked. and i just don't believe it.

>> so, tom what, do we do? what is the thomas friedman doctrine moving forward? we were just talking about the hillary doctrine. we decide the hillary doctrine is just to get elected president. right now everything seems to be ad hoc. so what is the tom friedman doctrine? >> so here's the two conclusions i've drawn from the last decade in iraq. one is, joe, sometimes the necessary is impossible, or it's impossible at any cost that we are willing to pay. that's number one because basically you are having -- you're seeing states fall apart and i think the only way to really rebuild them is an international force to come in and stay for 20, 30 years, okay. so sometimes the necessary is impossible. and the other point you have to take note of is, number two, is that the two most successful arab spring nations are the two countries we've had nothing to do with.

tunisia and kurdistan. we helped the kurds early on but the people there came together in a no vanquish formula and they built the politics that could support a state which we can then come in and support. >> tom, let's talk about another ugly reality we've all had to face over the past decade. i was extraordinarily concerned about -- like i'm sure you were -- what had been going on for egypt for 20, 30 years. they are our closest ally but there are a lot of things that made us extraordinarily uncomfortable during mubarak's reign. we have the arab spring and now what we've realized is that sometimes if you want order, sometimes the alternatives aren't really that good. a pluralistic democracy sometimes leads to absolute chaos in some of these middle

eastern countries. that's something that i think we're all having to grapple with. let me ask you about the international force. >> can i say something about that? >> sure. >> because it's a very important point you're making and i'm as guilty of this as anyone. we thought starting with egypt that the alternative to atalk kraes was democracy. and it's turned out the alternative has been disorder. >> chaos, absolute chaos. >> unless you have some internal force or external force that can manage that disorder and basically build a bridge to a different order, which is very expensive, takes a long period of time and also takes people who know what they're doing, what the players are. if there's anything we should have learned from iraq, people are saying we should have done this in syria, it is that we don't know what the hell we're doing. >> what we have had to say right now in august of 2014 is that the question is the world better off, is iraq better off with

saddam hussein dead and in a grave instead of running iraq. that question is even up in the air right now, which is something i thought i would never say. and i know it's something you thought you would never say. i want to get to this international force really quickly, though. europe has been on a vacation from history since 1991. they do absolutely nothing. and as bobby ghosh pointed out during the break, it is the europeans who face the gravest threat from isis. not us. what is it, by a factor of ten, there are ten times as many europeans that are -- have joined up isis to create havoc in their homeland, and yet the europeans seem willing to do doing. to do nothing on ukraine, to do nothing on putin, to do nothing on iraq, to do nothing on syria, to do nothing. it might just be all of these things that you're bringing up,

might be just a little more manageable if the europeans would actually be interested in more than just the bottom line. and if the united states would do more of what the president is saying an basically tell them to go straight to hell, build your own militaries. you know what, it's not 1945 anymore. >> well, you know, joe, the burden-sharing here or the lack of it at the scale we need is obviously a huge problem. but i want to go back to something we talked about earlier, and this is really what i founding is underlying the president's thinking and it certainly has affected mine. the middle east only puts a smile on your face when it starts with them. the anbar uprising started with them. the camp david peace process started with them. and without a group of iraqis who are ready to come together and build a political platform of sharing power, any force we

put on that -- yes, we can kill bad things and suppress different things for a while but without that underlying political consensus, nothing good will happen. that's why none of these others, searia, libya, by saying if we'd only armed the rebels, this isn't about who you give guns and training to, it's about the will of the people to live together. >> as jim miklaszewski and dan senor and bobby gosh just agreed, this may be a 20-year project in iraq. and who has an appetite for that, especially if, as you're saying, tom, the iraqis don't even have an appetite for pluralistic society. tom, stay with us, we'll be playing more of your fascinating interview with president obama and why he says democrats are reason based and republicans are mired in, quote, wacky ideological nonsense. the president's words, not mine. keep it right here on "morning joe." savings accounts?

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and i have to say here, you know, i've been speaking in generalities and trying not to be too political. but that extremism position is much more prominent in the republican party than the democrats. democrats have problems, but

overall if you look at the democrat consensus, it's a pretty common sense mainstream consensus. it's not a lot of wacky ideological nonsense. and by the way, it generally is fact based and reason based. we're not denying science, we're not denying climate change. we're not pretending that somehow having a whole bunch of uninsured people is the american way. we're doing things that are pretty sensible. >> let's bring thomas friedman back in. a fascinating enter view. i don't even know where to begin with that answer. as you were listening to that answer, is this a president gearing up for a very important midterm election in 2014 or did you sense that's the president we're going to have through the end of 2016? >> this interview was almost entirely focused on foreign

policy. that was the only real comment about domestic politics. so i think it speaks for itself, i think. it's out of my lane, but i'll let you handle that lane. >> i'm hoping that he was just being partisan, but unfortunately i think he really believes that. let's talk about israel. the president also said israelis have a right to defend themselves, but also to live side by side with the palestinians. let me play a clip of what the president had to say. >> because israel is so capable militarily, i don't worry about israel's survival. others can cause israel pain. it's a really bad neighborhood. israel is going to survive, that's not the issue. i think the question really is

how does israel survive. and, you know, how can you create a state of israel that maintains its democratic and civic traditions. how can you preserve a jewish state that ialso reflective of the best values of those who founded israel. >> dan senor has a question. >> hey, tom, the president said in you're interview that prime minister netanyahu is so strong. is he so strong politically that that creates an obstacle with the palestinians. one of the reasons that he is so strong right now is he not only has the support of the right in israel but actually he has the support of the center left after this gaza operation. you have the justice minister who's very liberal, so isn't there something to the fact that he's built some kind of consensus and it's not just a

strong right wing political prime minister? >> dan, it's a good question. as you know, though, this consensus is very much a product of this specific context of israel facing rocket attacks from hamas. and there you have a wall-to-wall -- nearly wall-to-wall support for the president. i think you'll see that consensus break down almost immediately once there's a cease-fire and diplomatic negotiations begin over how do we actually resolve the gaza situation so we don't return to more missiles. the consensus will fraction in two ways. his right wing critics, because he's very much in the center, if not the left, will say he failed. he didn't finish hamas off in gaza. and his center and left wing critics will say you really don't have a solution for gaza unless you can bring the west bank palestinian authority back into gaza to control the borders, to manage some level of

demilitarization and that won't happen unless you resume the peace process. so bb has a lot of support today in terms of responding to hamas rockets but that is going to quickly fracture as soon as we enter the negotiations. >> thomas, we have to go but i have to ask real quickly, you've been following this so long. do you think the tragedies that we saw unfold in july in gaza give us an opening to peace with a weakened hamas, strengthened netanyahu. is there an opening to peace? >> you know, joe, i really think there is because people have got a glimpse of the next war and the next war and the next war. we've had a lot of leaders that have been dog paddling in the rubicon. they say, joe, i'm coming, i see you there, but they're actually dog pamgddling and that's got t stop. >> thomas friedman, an

absolutely fascinating interview of the president. thanks for bringing that to us. hope your golfing goes well. do you have a favorite course out there? >> all of them. >> all of them. all right, all right. take a picture for us on those last few holes of cypress and send them back to us. coming up, what's running today's markets. "business before the bell" coming up. "morning joe" back in a minute. my motheit's delicious. toffee in the world. so now we've turned her toffee into a business.

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some really shocking news here and i mean that. shocking news coming out of texas, coming out of exxon. we've got brian sullivan joining us for "business before the bell." brian, you just told me, it's just breaking, that exxon has brokered a deal with putin's russia. a multi-billion dollar deal. that vladimir putin is hailing exxon, this texas-based company,

as a model of cooperation. i thought we had sanctions. here i'm criticizing the europeans and we've got a texas corporation that's in bed with vladimir putin taking care of his problems. >> let's be clear, the deal had been set way before this. they began drilling in the arctic as they're partnered with the state-owned oil company. >> i'm sorry, weren't there sanctions -- weren't there sanctions against -- >> yes, there are western sanctions but this is -- because it's a partnership with the russian state-owned oil company, i guess they're allowed to get around the sanctions. the drills went in the ground on the arctic on saturday. >> so exxon is taking care of putin's problem for him? >> one wonders if this could help the situation. they always say you don't go to war with countries that have a mcdonald's. perhaps -- >> that's a load of crap. that's what they said in june of 1914. and world war i began.

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welcome back to "morning joe." dan senor is here. his by, campbell brown, is launching a choice campaign for education. this is bizarre, in "the new york post" your wife was attacked on twitter by angry porn stars. what's going on there? >> it looks like to the groups affiliated with the teachers unions are hiring porn stars to retweet their attacks on

campbell. they truly lost their minds. >> including a young lady called@cynthia nipps. bobby, what did i learn? >> if you're going to take vienna, take vienna. >> what did you learn? >> tot number one in the premier league this year. >> i'm still stunned by "the new york post." >> what i have not learned whether my two nominees have accepted, gavin newsom, rachel way and manny machado. from the orioles. >> you guys had a rough night yesterday. you feeling good about tonight? >> feeling good about the orioles taking on the yankees down at camden yards. >> i don't understand what that accent is. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around, though, luke russert is next with "the daily rundown." in new york state,

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