where we are. they have pushed the media back. so you can't see. a lot of tactical vehicles. we don't know where the protesters are. >> they know about this or how their reaction would be? does that change the dynamic of how the protests go? >> i will tell you this, this will be all anyone in ferguson is talking about tomorrow. this is going to be -- you know, particularly the the tail of shot once in the top of the skull is going to be front and center tomorrow. >> absolutely. if you are just joining us, the top of the hour here on msnbc we are following coverage here after another night of new clashes and confrontations here with police and protesters. as there are reports of shots fired. our reporter there on the ground

has reported seeing a person or people armed. these protesters at some point defying the police, throwing back canisters, throws rocks and bottles. let's check in -- standby, chris, as we check in with nbc's mark potter who is there. as we look at the stamging area of police. what can you tell us now? >> i can tell you the situation is fairly calm. an hour and a half ago, it was a different scene. a flurry of activity here because all the officers -- this is a command center, the staging center a half mile south of the main protest zone. there was word that a crowd had gathered behind the buildings here. this is a strap mall with a target store and schnooks grocery store and foot locker and there was a report of people gathering. there was a report -- we don't have confirmation of it but we can hear the police officers

talking about a molotov cocktail and there was a concern because we could see tear gas behind the building. it didn't take too long before we could smell it as it was coming this way. meanwhile, officers came up think street and formed a line beyond where i am looking now. looking out to a main road and a tree line. what i can tell is they were concerned about people coming behind the building and working their way around and coming in to the parking lot. the order went out is sternly, no cars in to the parking lot unless police cars. all of the roads in this area coming off the highway and coming in toward the area where the protests are all sealed off. they have been sealed off for showers. anybody in here now is considered potentially suspicious, certainly being watched. we saw a young man come in on a bicycle and the police officers yell yelled at him to go away.

he did. 45 minutes ago everyone started to stand down and took their masks off and they are still in the line over there watching, waiting to see what happens. the radios have gotten quiet, though, now. it's a much different scene. the flurry of activity an hour and a half ago got everyone's attention. there was great concern about whatever was going on back there. they had a chopper going around and it you checking the tree lines and around there. we could hear the thump of gas or smoke being fired. again, we could smell it. we heard it periodically throughout the night. we haven't heard it for a while now. >> as we approach in less than an hour until the curfew is in effect. is there -- does it seem there is anybody out there? anybody from the public out there at all? >> not in this area. citizens just can't get here because the roads are blocked. the stores are closed.

they have been closed since 5:00, 6:00 central time this evening. there's no potential for shoppers being injured at all or concerned about this because they are not here. this area is sealed off. we're a half mile from the protests. we understand the small crowd is being pushed away from us to the north. and they are going that way. it is a pretty small crowd. the concern here has gone away. we can see officers talking to each other an sort of standing. you can tell from their body language they aren't worried but they were a while ago. >> if that changes you will bring us up to date. let's go back to chris hayes with the new information we are getting here at msnbc, news from an independent autopsy report that shows -- this is an autopsy done independently by the family of the -- by the brown family that shows michael brown was shot six times from the front

one in the head, one in the eye and in the arm. let's turn to chris hayes with details on that. >> the autopsy was conducted after michael brown's body was given back to the family, i believe on friday. the st. louis county medical examiner conducted their own autopsy. eric holder issuing an unusual order for a third federal autopsy to be conducted. the independent autopsy shows he was hit with six shots, all from the fontenot the back. one in the arm and two in the head, one off of his right eye, one entering near the top of the skull. the detail that the bullet at the top of the skull i think will be much debated and discussed tomorrow.

obviously one can imagine some circumstance in which it would be possible that someone would fire to the top of the skull in a posture of self defense. that said, all things being equal, will tilt people toward thinking it was -- just based on -- we're on the other side. okay. i'm now with the last remaining -- is this group the last remaining group of protesters. >> we're less than an hour from the curfew being imposed there in ferguson. i don't know if this is something we can know based on this report out of the "new york times," what kind of position michael brown was in when he was shot, based on this independent autopsy? with we know that signature pose, that gesture, the hands up, don't shoot that so many

protesters now, at any given time we see them with that pose. any indication if he had his hands up, if he was on his knees. any kind of abrasions on his knees to show that or anything to indicate what pose he might have been in? >> no. as far as the basic detail we have so far there's nothing. let me tell you, i'm moved past the security cordon by the police. we are now in another location on -- further up where there is a number of folks who congregated at a gas station. knowing about expressing trust rax and anger. a few police here, a few police in riot gear as well. we are obviously coming up on an hour before the curfew kicks in. it is unclear whether the intention of the folks here is to stand out that curfew. there's obviously a number of protesters last night that

decided to stand down the curfew. a the clock ticks toward that there are police in riot shields an batons facing off from these folks. right now there is nothing happening between the two of them but hard to imagine it will stay that way given how things are going down tonight. >> word of this, results of the independent autopsy comes out and as that spreads that may change. chris, stand by for us as we turn to our reporter in ferguson and has been there all week. what's the word as you are hearing about this independent autopsy showing that michael brown was shot six times? >> i think the autopsy results is a critical next step. even though it's only been a week in the field it feels like an entire lifetime. people will fill in the blanks themselves. what people have been ask canning and demanding is give us answers. fwif us something that gets us close to the truth.

this is another step closer. it doesn't paint a full picture but again six bullets, it starts to -- pretty much frame out. a glimpse in to what happened. again, on one hand, people will be excited. -- excited is not the right word but eagerly anticipating because they have an element of the truth but a lot we don't know. the shot to the top of the skull. people have -- a lot of rumors about how the killing went down and now we are getting close. will it further fuel things or uncover some of the truth. >> attorney general ordered a

federal medical examiner to perform another autopsy. you have the st. louis county autopsy results yet to be released. >> right. we are talking about justice. everybody wants justice. the police officer who shot and killed a man, people who support him want justice. the family of michael brown and the community rallied behind him want justice. part of justice is transparency. part of justice is the truth. our system, the mechanisms do as they will with those troops. again, depending how they line up with each other. are they consistent? do they come out with similar results? now we are getting three that's a solid direction. again whatever justice is, whoever proceeded one way or the other this is getting us one

step closer. >> word of this independent autopsy is going to change the dynamic of everything in ferguson. word we are getting in to msnbc from bruce carter. the dell wood market there on chambers road is on fire. we don't know what extent. we don't know if it is a small or big fire, how it started but we are getting word that a dellwood market on chambers road in ferguson is on fire. that's something that you can look in to. i don't know how close that it is you but we will try to gather information on that and bring it to you as soon as we get it. 11 minutes past the hour here on msnbc. we are continuing our coverage from ferguson, missouri. we want to go to adrian who is a reporter with our nbc affiliate

there. to bring us some information she's there in ferguson. what can you tell us? are you there? >> right now we're at the -- yes, i am here. we're here at the command center and staging center. you'll notice a strong police presence. around 9:30 or so, police sent out a tweet saying someone tried to throw a molotov cocktail at the back of this shopping center. you see officers dressed in riot gear. i've seen officers with masks to cover their face. several of them are holding shields. what you are looking at right now is different from how it looked even 30 minutes ago. there were much more officers. i can tell you about a block from here there were protesters on lucas. some of them -- i don't know if they live in the area or if they

came from a different street but chanting in the area. strong police presence even at the entrance of the shopping center. we see a lot of blue and red flashing lights. throughout the day it's been pretty much peaceful. earlier in the evening the crowd of protesters was different. had a different feel from what we experienced days before. 9:30 things took a different turn. behind me you see officers going back to their vehicles. they are leaving the area where they have been staging for the past hour or so. >> talk to me -- >> back to you. >> sure. talk about the he case where you are. in respect to where the protests are and what they are calling ground zero. >> we're a mile and a half.

the streets around the area are blocked. it was tough for our crew to get to the stanling center. earlier in the day, there were so many people, hundreds. the most i have seen since i have been here. i wouldn't call it peaceful protests toward the end of the tay. it seemed people were hanging out, gathering, somewhat of a block party. earlier in the day there were children but it took a different turn. keep in mind, the tear gas was fired -- we saw officers on top of vehicles firing off tear gas. this was happening in the 9:30 hour. two hours before the curfew was supposed to be imposed or before the curfew will be imposed. >> definitely a change. as we have seen in the past, when night falls, a difference scenario than on the streets of ferguson. thank you so much.

like to bring in msnbc contributor goldie taylor. i'm sure you were watching as news broke of this independent autopsy that's just been released showing michael brown shot six times in the front. twice in the head and in the arm. what was your reaction upon hearing that? >> i think having read it, it leaves more questions than it answers. it says he was shot in the top of the head and presumably he was leaning forward he may have been leaning forward in pain or to surrender. we don't know. we don't know how far away he was when the shot was taken. what we know is there was no gun on his body. his clothes weren't with him during the second autopsy. there's no way to know for certain if there was gun residue on him. >> tell me about your thoughts

on how this will change the dynamic and the perspective the protesters will have upon hearing this. i'm sure they are following this. and the curfew, we are coming upon the curfew in ferguson. what's the reaction you anticipate? are you there, goldie? >> looks like we have lost our connection with goldie taylor. jim cavanaugh, our law enforcement analyst is with us. i don't think we have spoken to you since we got word of the independent autopsy. >> right. it's interesting. certainly is the way the report out lines the shots in the front and the shot to the eye an the head, no tattooing or gunshot residue indicates shots from

handgun would be more than three feet away. once you get inside of three feet you get gunshot residue from the smokeless power in the cartridge that gets on your clothes. the closer you get the more you get. if the gun is up close to the body you get blackening of the skin, gunshot residue in the clothes. these shots are from approximately three feet. you can't tell how close three feet back to 20 feet. no way to tell that distance. it seems consistent with what the witnesses said. the witnesses said that everybody agrows an the police chief and county said this you a shot fired from inside the car. dorian, michael's friend said that michael was shot. he saw blood on his right side right there in the first shot. he was hit the first time and would have been hit in the

front. that's at least one shot. then he ran and dorian and tiffany phillips both said that when he was running and there was a shot and he jerked or stopped like he had been hit. that maybe, just maybe, not sure but it maybe the grazing wound to the arm. a grazing wound maybe they can't tell if it is front or back if it is just a graze or could have reacted to a gunshot and stopped and not been physically hit by the projectile. if he was hit twice the last four shots would have been when he turned around with his hands raised. that goes back to the young woman on the balcony who said that the police officer fired at his face and chest. so if he winds up with those two more in the chest and one in the eye and the top of the head, michael's tall. so, i don't know the height of the officer but he would have to

be eight feet tall to shoot someone in the top of the head unless they were falling foreer ward or kneeling down. >> the autopsy shows he was shot in the arm, head and eye in the front. as far as the independent autopsy from the family. will there be any indication of what kind of pose michael brown was in, during based on apps autopsy, will we be able to tell if his arms were raised or if he was on his knees at the time? >> it will depend on what the medical examiner can tell from muscles and where the projectile hit. for example, if his arms were raised and a projectile hit him in the chest the medical examiner may be able to determine that his arm was raised. it's only a maybe if he could tell. of course we know that from the eyewitnesses. it really doesn't have to -- but

it cob confirmed. the top of the head shot, it gets down to fidices, you can't do it unless you are on a ladder or the man is going down at an angle. if he was shot like the young woman in the balcony said, he was shot in the face and chest. i would say likely the top of the head -- the shot to the top of the head you the last shot. may have been two shots to the chest, a shot in the eye, as he is falling the last shot in the top of the head and that would account for all six shots. in other words the first where he is wounded. dorian says he is wound. turns, runs, grazing shot in the arm, that's two shots a enwhen he turns with his hands raise, shot twice in the chest and final shot as he is falling top of the skull. that a may be how it turns out. we're trying to read that from

what the autopsy says. there's a lot more to do there. >> certainly critical information. pivotal information. more questions to come with it. jim cavanaugh, thank you. we were able to reestablish our shot with goldie taylor. i was asking you how you think the information about this independent autopsy from the family might change things, or will change things for the people of ferguson. >> i think it will be problematic. you have a second autopsy. you have an autopsy coming from the state crime lab and a third autopsy coming from the federal government, from the fbi. so, because a body is not examined at the same time, under the same circumstances, for instance during the second autopsy, the clothes not present but were present in the first that is material. you have conflicts in reports. conflicts lead to reasonable

doubt. i think that a little dilemma with so many autopsies being done on this body. on the other hand, there are some open questions as we read the second one. we don't know what posture he was in. as a man over six feet tall, was he leaning forward in pain, or to surrender? we don't know. there are no shots to the back but that doesn't mean he wasn't shot at as he was running away. there's no gun residue on his body but that doesn't mean there were no close-range shots because the clothes aren't with it. so we don't know about residue. a lot of questions will be asked. a press conference is coming up tomorrow morning featuring attorney crumb and the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy. so we will see more information. the problem is the disjointed nature in which information is coming out. everyone has an agenda.

across the board. whether you have good intentions or not good intentions with how you bring out information, that information came from a disjointed information campaign. it seems to be sewing seeds of distrust in the community and i don't think we have seen the end of it tonight. >> absolutely not. >> you know what, standby right there, goldie. we want to turn to chris hayes at the scene as far as more activity. is that the case? >> yeah, just went to the other side of the cordon. there's a car accident. huge amount of police presence. it appears two bodies have been taken off the street. both put in to ambulances. there's a wrecked car on the side of the road here. apparently reports of looting in the dellwood market and a body

on the street. both bodies seem to have been loaded in to an ambulance. >> when you say bodies -- when you say body, did it seem they were injured, did they cover the bodies? >> one was covered. from what i could tell, i didn't have a great look but unclear whether these folks are alive or not, frankly. one was taken in to a stretcher and put in an ambulance. >> wow. >> there was a lot of chatter a block away there was a body on the street. >> this has taken a whole new turn if that is the case. the protest, unrest and clashes and confrontation. >> there are two cars -- i'm seeing two cars that are just wrecked here. there's a white sedan about 100 feet down from me on the sidewalk, then a silver sedan up from that. that white sedan is pretty badly

busted up. >> chris, there's so much here to bring our viewers and we want to find out more about that situation there with crumpled up cars and what you describe as bodies. possibly two, one covered, maybe a dead bodies. we will try to find out more about that but we want to bring you in with a conversation we will have with the family attorney as far as the family's reaction to the independent autopsy showing michael brown was shot six times. chris, stay with us. feel free to chime in here as we have this conversation. please tell us first and foremost the reaction that the family had upon hearing this news from the autopsy results. >> well, unfortunately, it confirmed some of their worst fears that the witness accounts were pretty much right on. with the fact that he had been

hit multiple times. certainly those two head shots were incredibly difficult for them to hear about. also the hand, arm, chest, the eye. it's one of those things, it was so troubling for a family to hear how their son was executed and so they are trying to get through this, but also they are begging people to be peaceful because we are starting to get the answers. what they really want more than anything else is to get the answers of why this happened and to get justice for their son. but they tonight want people to just be angry. they want them to pursue justice in a peaceful way. part of the reason i'm making this call is to let people know that answers are coming out. the truth about this execution

will come out. we just have to be patient and try to respect the wishes of the family. they are hurting worse than anybody else. if we can just try as best we can as a nation to try to let the process happen as it has to happen. we have to go through some hard stages to get to justice. we we're just at the beginning of this journey. we're going to all have to try a best we can to keep going forward together as a nation. >> all right. standby, benjamin. i understand chris hayes is with us. chris, are you there. >> i'm getting details from an eyewitness. he tells me conflicting reports. police said two people, this guy

said four, three rushed in an ambulance. one he did not think was alive at the time. that's unconfirmed. i definitely saw what looked like a body on the street when we pulled up here. there were two police car -- two civilian cars driving past each other here on chambers. he said it was happening around the same time tear fwas was fired a little burt up chambers from here. keep in mind, the tear garks i have heard numerous reports from people that were out a peaceful protest that were subjected to tear gas at a different location than the place where molotov cocktails or gun fire is being asserted by the police. i don't know the details. grisly bad scene here. a few blocks from where police set up a security -- >> chris, there are many

developments going on there. significant ones with people taken to the hospital and possibly one body, as well, there. we're juggling a lot. while that's going on we are speaking to benjamin crump, the brown family attorney on reaction to this independent autopsy report that they just got showing michael brown was shot six times. do you have a question for them? we'd like to get the three of us in the conversation here. >> yeah. mr. crump, is there any concern what will now be three -- what will now be three independent -- three different autopsies could pose problems down the line if and when there's a prosecution? >> we have to see what the autopsies say. what the family did not want to risk, as so many other families came to regret and that's not getting your own independent autopsy and having to rely on

just st. louis county medical examiner's autopsy who work every day with police and law enforcement officers. never knowing if the federal government was going to do an autopsy a even though we kept requesting it. the family has to make sure they had their interests protected by getting the autopsy. i think in large part with the witness testimony and these multiple shots they are consistent with what a lot of the witnesses are saying. we see in the autopsy report there is a grazing shot that hit

the back of the arm. i think it's going to come out. we're going to find the answers and there is still no justification for michael brown being executed like this in broad daylight. >> this is my question to you, mr. crump, how does the family go about choosing who would conduct this independent autopsy? >> they wanted to get the best. it's well known that dr. michael is one of the best forensic pathologists in the world. they were extremely grateful that he agreed to do it. did you go to him or did he go to the family first. >> we reached out to him and we are grateful to him. he will be able to discuss in further detail. as i get off the phone i want to

say the family is pleading with people that they act in a responsible way and they don't resort to violence in these trying hours. we are starting to get answers. they are coming out slowly. the family had to take initiative to get ans about how many times this child was shot. it is at least six times. it could be more. the doctor left himself some room because there are things he didn't have at his autopsy that police had available at their autopsy. he looks forward to getting those results so he can compare and discuss academically with the other doctors. so they can find out what really happened here. >> mr. crump, there's a report

in the "washington post" about moving to have the county prosecutor in charge of prosecuting if there is a prosecution to have him removed. there's senators an other people also. do you have confidence? does the family have confidence in the prosecutors of the state. >> at this time the family wants to make sure they have due process and that they have equal justice for their child. to that extend, i'm not prepared to talk about the prosecution of the case other than we will address that issue with a lot of individuals who live in st. louis. i think it is important that we have their insight in to this matter. obviously you would want, as we have asked all along, chris, for

the federal government to take over the entire case. that is the investigation, autopsy, and the prosecution. at this time i'm only talking about this autopsy that was what they ask canned me to speak to about. i want to just leave it there. >> can you talk about the level of frustration, when it comes to prosecution and lack of charges against the officer? >> well, at this point, they still feel a great level of mistrust. you know, you hear all of this stuff about their child who was executed in broad daylight but you haven't heard nick about the shooter. they look forward to getting information about the background of this officer whether he

wwas. so many answers, as you would imagine parents have. disbelief, troubled terribly about the results of the independent autopsy and the place where he was shot. it's really troubling to his family he was shot twice in the head. it's just hard. >> i can imagine that's the case. you will be present there as the family and others for the news kmps tomorrow. will you give us any new additional information? or are they speaking directly to the press? >> i'm not a doctor. his assistant will talk and we

will address concerns. it is for the members of the media to able to talk to the doctors, as well as get reactions from the family and their attorney for the family. >> appreciate your time mr. crump. chris, anything else you wanted to ask mr. crump? >> so, what do you expect for a time line here? the tension is so thick right now. when i think back to what happened with trayvon martin, the tension was released when charges were brought. that's what made people feel like we moved from path of injustice to something that looks like a normal path of justice and legal accountability. what time line would people expect about a charging decision to be made? >> certainly people expect it will be justice. if the situation was reversed and you had this situation that

befalled the officer it would have been an arrest immediately. charges brought immediately. really the frustration and the people of ferguson and all over the country. they see it is a different situation when our children are dead on the street. that's what people are waiting to see if the system will work fairly for us in our community. namely the african-american community. it has been tense when you talk about the number of police killings you have against young people of color. and the aftermath normally people aren't held accountable. and with this situation what is so unique about it, chris, it's in broad daylight. men and women who watched him put hi hands up and said the police kept shooting. that's troubling on so many levels when you think of what

people witnessed with their own eyes. a person puts up the universal symbol of surrender. that is what the witness accounts say and the autopsy we are putting forward seems to confirm the worst fears that witnesses were telling the truth. >> all right. before we let you go. you were saying the family is asking the protesters to do so peacefully. do you an tus pate there being a public plea tomorrow? i know they need to speak a lot about the autopsy and all of the matters relating to that. do you expect the family make a public plea for the protests to remain peaceful now that we are seeing day two of the protests. >> absolutely. his parents and family have all asked that we protest peacefully.

we have asked that. do not do this and take away the focus of what this is really about. this is really about the tragic death of a young man that never should have happened. when you do things irresponsibly and result to violence it takes the attention away from getting to the answers that they so badly want. they are begging, as they have done from day one, that people remain peaceful and calm. >> all right. hopefully that will be the case and that's wa we will see tonight as we are 20 minutes away from the curfew going in to affect in ferguson, missouri. thank you for your time and perspective. we anticipate what the family will be saying tomorrow at that press conference at 10:30 a.m. eastern time. thank you. >> thank you. goldie, i know you are listening to the words of benjamin crump. mark potter is there. he was bringing us a report from a half mile away from the protest scene and the tense

situation there. goldie, as you are hearing, mr. crump's words, what's your takeaway? >> i think one of the most striking things about the second autopsy is mike brown was struck in the inner right palm. which means his hand were up in surrendered and he was shot. that's enough for me. that's enough for me to take this to a grand jury and vigorously seek an indictment, that's enough for me to take this to trial. i think that's the most striking thing. there are many questions to be asked and answered tonight and tomorrow. but i think that all of this information, all of the scientific and physical evidence ought to be in a court of law. i don't think we ought to try it in the court of public opinion. i think he is stradly well intentioned about releasing the information. i'm not sure the police chief is well intentioned about releasing the videotape from the store surveillance but neither here nor there.

now you have more information, not full information on the streets of this country, on the streets of ferguson for people to interpret how they may. i think that is harmful, frankly, for us in the general public. i think it does more to tamper and taint a jury. i think a jury pool needs to come to this impartial, unbiased by anything they may have read in the media, seen in the press, heard from their neighbors. so it concerns me that information is coming out piecemeal. no matter if people have the real intention of seeking justice this this case or, you know, keeping this less than transparent. it does concern me. after having read the report and the "new york times" analysis i'm curious to see what the doctor will say tomorrow, the one shot to the inner right palm of mike brown says his hands were up in surrender.

that should have never happened. so i'm concerned about that tonight. >> how do you think that will be taken by protesters? we may see, we may not see tonight, as we approach this curfew the second night of the curfew imposed and again a state of emergency in ferguson, missouri. how do you think that will be taken? >> i don't think it will be taken well, especially by the young people living in ferguson tonight. young black men and women in this country. that, you know, if you can't throw your hands up in a universal sign of surrender and still not be shot by police, who can you trust? i think there will be unrest among people who have to live like this. >> goldie taylor, thank you for

your analysis. nbc's mark potter is report of a molotov cocktail being thrown. a different scene now. approaching 15 minutes until the curfew coming in to effect. >> three hours ago it was a tense scene. there was some tear gas fired behind one of the buildings here. this is the command center for the police. tear fwas was fired. there was concern about gun fire and molotov cocktail. officers surrounded the parking lot. they were intense and had their gas masks on. worried about people coming to the area and over time the fear went away and the situation dissipated to where now it is a relaxed at mos fear. you can see the people behind me are walking around. the line of officers is out there. they are nekneeling and talking. the radio traffic has gone quiet. we heard some sounds a short

while ago. they could have been shots or firecrackers. we don't know. no one here seemed to react to them. we don't know what that was about. we didn't hear anything further. the point is 17 minutes until the curfew and right now everything is calm and relaxed and quiet. nobody is coming in an out of here. the police aren't running around like they were before. three hours ago it you a much different scene. officers screaming out of here, searching the bushes, helicopters overhead. it almost stopped. very quiet and peaceful here. >> tonight, for now, that's key. tonight, we are mentioning words like molotov cocktail and reports earlier around the center of the protests near the quick mart that protesters were defying law enforcement by throwing canisters and in some cases catching them with their hats an throwing them back

towards police and throwing rocks an bottles. is there any indication or feeling that day by day these protesters may get more bold, more defiant an riskier in their approach against the law enforcement there? >> well, i think there are two ways to look at it. there maybe a fine core, a small core that's doing that, maybe getting more bold and coming here behind but the other way to look it seems the core group is becoming smaller. there was activity today but not as much. and it didn't last a long and it was quicker. so that's another way to look at it. there may be hard core that is up to mischief more than they were but it feels to me like it is shrinking group at the center of this. smaller than it was, certainly not the big crowd we had before.

not the big crowds of people wo were looting an doing all of that. we're not having that tonight. these are smaller pockets. they were worried about them in tees, over here, hiding behind the tree line. that's gone away. went away fairly quickly. 200, 00 marchers but in terms of the ones causing problems a small group. >> that's a good point. you don't want to say -- we are talking about so many who are doing so peacefully, following the curfew and going home and getting rest to come back at 5:00 in the morning to hear

their voices again. and then handful of troublemakers if you want to call them that who want to defy police, cause trouble and that seems to be the things we are seeing, as well. >> you are also hearing -- the same group you are talking about that is protesting peacefully, getting up in the morning, they are talking on radio. if you listen to the local radio stations you hear the protests one after the other after the other complaining about the young people that come in to cause trouble. they do not like them. they do not like what they are doing. diluting their message, maybe destroying their message. they are concerned about that. that's what you hear on the radio stations. there are two organizations to talk about here. the protesters and there's a core group of people looting. they are not one in the same. that's important to be made and the protesters want the

distinction. the other night when this was looting, it was protesters who stopped looters. on that night the police packed off. the next night they were guarding businesses because the business owners kplined but that night the protesters stopped the looters and they did that and they complained loudly about what they were having to do. >> people causing the trouble were young kids, i would say and a lack of adult supervision and some members of the community were acting as mediators to come out and help them and say, time to to this peacefully and to home. mark potter, thank you. >> some have made the point that the young people are not from this community, they are outside potentially. they don't live here. >> mark potter for us there in

ferguson. turn to chris hayes with more information. i know we are following a situation there. you described some vehicles. >> i just came from a two-car accident. two to four people involved. it is outside of a dellwood market that had been burned. police put it out. there's a line of police in riot gear and a handful of protesters and the clock is ticking toward curfew. it seems if something will go down it will be at this snekts. you can feel the tension in the air. everyone is watching the clock. a police chopper overhead. they have traditional opposed to military riot gear shields and

pa on thes and helmets. the other side of chamber people only a few folks. >> so the crowd is out numbered. >> we have you on streaming video as you are talking to us right now. we can see you on the air. >> are you are being told to move? >> no, a drunk guy. there are more units moving in for reinforcement. >> would you say the crowd is outnumbered by law enforcement and police? >> yes. maybe 70 police, 40 people. i don't know how many are actual protesters and media and

onlookers. people are looking around to see what is going on. not concentrated -- that's crowd control noise in the background. i don't think a bunch of people chanting or protesting. telling people to clear the area. >> understandably fwifen there is nine minutes left before the state-imposed curfew this the town of ferguson, missouri. this time yesterday 24 hours ago, it may have been a similar scene as far as quiet streets. we saw within 45 minutes of that curfew being imposed how that kicked up. we saw the armor vehicles. we saw armed police come in. we know 24 hours later, that

response that law enforcement response we saw yesterday with tear gas fired was in response to an incident at a restaurant that resulted in one person shot in critical condition and seven people arrested as a result of violating the curfew. initially the response was not to enforce the curfew but in response to the people wo were inside or on top of the roof of the restaurant yesterday. remains to be seen. eight minutes until the curfew is in effect. what will happen on the streets of ferguson. tell us more about the situation. i know it was troubling at the time when you saw it. this car accident with three people taken to the hospital and what may appear to have been a body covered. is that related to the people out there with the protests? >> here's what happened. there was a lot of chaos happening at in the time. you have police pushing one way and people fleeing from that.

you have police coming in to the dellwood market, which was an area, a store that was burned or fire was lit inside of it. it was amidst the police activity that two cars got in to an accident. the eyewitness said he thought it was -- it was a product of the craziness of the situation where you have roads cut off, a lot of people moving around. >> goes to show how dangerous the situation can be outside of police presence or tear gas thrown or reports of guns there. just chaos simply driving could be a risk. look at the streets now. how do you maneuver around the area? >> we have -- it's hard to get around. you have to show your badges or

sneak around. right now there is a big tactical vehicle coming on loud speaker telling people to get off the street. it is flanked by about 12 officers to get across the street they are saying. 12 officers in sort of military-style fweer. they are wearing camouflage. that's the loud crowd. they have helmets and boots and what look like assault weapons. >> you mentioned earlier the crowd was outnumbered by the 70-plus members of the police there. is that the case still? are they lingering a as we approach five minutes until the curfew. >> it is honestly a surreal scene. there's no sort of central protest to disperse. there are a lot of people milling about trying to figure out what is going on.

here come the police. they are approaching fast in a line. coming toward us. they are trying to clear this street. they have taken the gases station where a lot of people were loitering. folks are looking at them. now, again, there arent -- to be honest, there's maybe a few people out here that look like protesters or shirts or bandannas over their faces. most of it is i would say curious onlookers. curious what is going on. a few people yelling at the cops from their parked car across the street from them. they are telling people to leave the area and return to their

vehicles. >> are those people following the instructions? well, everyone is waiting to see what happens next frankly. a bunch of folks -- it's really a strange scene. it's like there is no protest to end at this point. >> good to point out. there might be other members of the press. they might be reporting the same thing about you. >> there's a few reporters out here and folks in the neighborhood out looking at what is going on. trying to figure out what is going on. >> and they would be there to say we have four minutes until the curfew kicks in. i have a right to be out here. i'm going to. at some point it becomes a self fulfilling process fi. every is waiting for the tear fwas boom because they know it will become. it has become predictable how

this will go down. you create expectations of drama in these situations. because everything is going to a heightening point? some protesters were angry about the curfew saying it violates their right to assemble. it will provoke us more. and a wanting to to out and not having to stay inside. is that the case today? >> well, that might have been later and might be some small cluster but right now that's not the case. right now it is more less onlookers.

looks like the corner where i am at -- pulling out their cars and getting out. >> looking at a live shot at somebody out of a sunroof of their suv. waving their arms. might be their last hurrah for the night. >> everyone seems to be pulling out. >> it is important to note once we reach midnight local time this ferguson, every indication it lab quiet peaceful night. the unrest didn't start until 45 minutes in. we started to see the crowd and we did start to see armored trucks pull this. and the police in riot gear and smoke thrown by tear gas. we know the result of people in the barbecue restaurant that resulted if one person getting

shot. this may not be an indication of what we will see throughout the night because we are nearing a minute now of the curfew. >> right now one of the things people should realize, so much focus on the ferguson police. this is a joint operation across the board. i have seen all sorts of different police departmenteds active here this evening. it's not the ferguson police. not st. louis county, st. louis metro, state highway patrol. local municipalities. people are more or less getting cleared. riot police have sort of fanned out. they are holding the gas station and the crowd there basically dispersed. someone driving by in a car. leaning out with their hands up and giving the cops the finger. >> we are 30 seconds from this curfew being imposed there in ferguson.

>> you have a lot of different members of law enforcement and a lot of municipalities making a judgment call in the moment. at the time in the midst