>> you have a lot of different members of law enforcement and a lot of municipalities making a judgment call in the moment. at the time in the midst of

where they are, it depends on how much they are over the area. >> we are 50 seconds into this curfew now in effect in ferguson as they are taking a live look there from the streets of ferguson, the central part of it where the protest happened earlier in the day and so far all is quiet. again, everybody is standing by, law enforcement is standing by to make sure that is the case. if you are joining us at the top of the hour here, curfew is in effect in ferguson, the second night for the state of emergency after eight days since the shooting of michael brown, a night where there is significant information that was released by an independent autopsy conducted by the brown family that shows the six shots were fired at michael brown from the front, one to the head and one to the eye, the arm and the chest as

well. that will change the dynamic of the protest tomorrow as people will find out more about this. they are expected to speak tomorrow morning. at 10:30 eastern time, we will bring that to you. again, two minutes into the curfew in ferguson and it remains to be seen the kind of unrest and the clashes and the confrontations we saw yesterday. some are crossing the street. the news organization is out there. chris hayes as well. does this seem like what should be the case as far as tactics. is this what you would expect? >> it's good at the moment. >> with the officers earlier and

they are spreading out and tactics and dispursed large amounts of people. huh a fire in a restaurant and you had the car accident the gunshot reported and a lot of activity and at the moment. like you said, the curfew came in and it looks peaceful. this seems to be the epicenter of where the trouble was late at night. it was also the place where the peaceful protests were in the earlier hours. people seem to be leaving because they don't want to get arrested. it will be interesting to see how many arrests they made. we did see a number of arrests. a few anyway. >> there were seven arrests as far as people violating the curfew. we will see what happens tonight. this is what i'm curious about based on the activity we saw earlier here. the epicenter of the protests for what we saw where the

protesters were there earlier around the 9:00 or 10:00 hour. the protesters they were defined by blowing back canisters and rocks and bottles. put us in the mind of the protesters, we are in day seven of this. day one, it might be alarming to see all of these police in the armored vehicles. is that a reason to be more defiant. you are here and this is day two or three or four i have been with you as far as the protesters go. >> i agree with that.

chris described the feelings earlier. it becomes the event and the excitement. it's the thing that will happen tonight. when you are a certain age and you are frustrated about the killing of michael brown and other situations like you feel you have been profiled by the police. you may have. we saw captain johnson at the church today talking about his son and how he dressed and appeared. that's something these young men can identify with. if police are profiling and harassing them and they feel strongly about the police, so they are out there late at night and at night, if you are young and you are out, you will have contact with the police. they really feel this. it's a big thing and the community at large like you were talking is fed up. they are tired of this.

they want to go to sleep and work. they want their kids to go to school. they are very mad about the michael brown situation and doing it in the ways that was exhibited today in the church. they want to protest and vote and demand justice. they want all of those things. they want to work through the courts and the attorneys and the civil rights leaders and the lawyers. they see it in a different vain. this smaller group, very small is the one that will have to be -- they get tired of doing this and stop to rest before anyone gets injured, hurt or killed. the more this goes on, the more chances that there could be a death. somebody seriously injured. that would be a tragedy. we lot of michael brown here. it should not be another death as a result. i hope this can stretch out and i'm hopeful that the attorney general and the leaders there will do something on the

investigation and not a rush to judgment, but a decision based on the facts at hand to move justice forward. until the end or the beginning, it might be the end of the beginning. that's a huge step they need to try to get to and early this week, i would like to see it. >> stick with us. we take a break from you and turn to msnbc.com who was there. i was hearing reports when you were there with the crowd when police were deploying and throwing the tear gas and cansters. >> after i was speaking with you earlier. we had to run back and i saw

several men brandishing guns. he was standing in the middle of the street. he held the pistol up ahead and fired three shots. people started running in all different directions through the lawns of the homes near us and up the street to chambers where now there riot police that are advising us to leave. >> they are there after the curfew takes effect? >> they were protesting and standing out in front, almost taunting the officers there and a tactical team came forward. they advised the media to stand

behind the ranks of the police officers as they held a line on chambers road. >> if i'm not mistaken, that was where dell wood market is from reports from chris hayes. that was a fire started inside. i'm not sure if it was deliberate or somebody broke in. do you have any information on that. >> several people were throwing glass bottles through the window. they were not looting. it was pure vandalism. that was right after i saw. the name fizzled out before they

were able to throw it on to the police area, but they were still too far away for it to do any damage. it turned out before he was able to throw it. >> there seems to be a divide that was widening between the protesters who are getting their message out and they have gone home. they come down when it is lift and there is another core group of people who are the ones that are storing up the violence and looting. they are thes who are throwing rocks and bottles at the officers. do you see that divide is widening more? do you see anger and they are saying let's get the message out without causing this trouble? >> this has been an ongoing issue throughout this entire week. when the looting happened two days ago, there were protesters

wanting to create a human barrier between themselves and the storefronts in which the looters went through. this is between the main lane protesters who say they want to get their message to be clear and they want to maintain justice and seeking answers in this investigation. what tends to happen is towards the end of the night, if you were family or adults on the frontlin frontlines, it becomes a younger crowd who gets far more rowdy in the evenings. the main line protesters who do say with the messages and during the day, they act as mediators to try to quell any type of rowdy unrest, saying that it takes away from the main message they are wanting to put out.

>> are they out for the rush of causing trouble? or are they really in that mind set of we want law enforcement out of here and these are our streets. it's 11 minutes, 12 minutes after midnight and i have a right to be out here? is that their mind set? >> this case strikes a cord with many people for many different ways. it's just how certain groups are taking out their frustration and anger. they are saying that this perceived injustice that they have for generations not had a fair shake with law enforcement. there relationship has been tense at best. you see clear divisions in how they act out and they want to get that message across.

we are seeing a different way of acting out. >> definitely the frustration is what they have in common, but it's how they express it and making the difference in the streets of ferguson. we are 13 minutes into the curfew in ferguson, missouri. a live picture with the police presence and media. it seems like media and police, it appeared that everybody has gone home following the curfew, but it remains to be seen if that will be the case. we didn't see that into the curfew.

that resulted in people arrested for violating the curfew. we are almost 14 minutes in. images from earlier this evening. not the case right now. not live pictures, but these are the live pictures that we are seeing. police will be briefing the media any moment. they will fill us in on the unrest tonight happened two hours before the curfew. they reported they saw people who were armed. a man with a gun in his hand fired three shots above his head. they were defying police and throwing back canisters as the

police line moved forward, inched forward. even throwing rocks and bottles and some cases even catching the tear gas canisters and throwing them back at police. even some of our reporters on the ground. hearing some other witnesses. they were protesting peacefully and the tear gas started. no indication as to what started it. the height of the new clashes tonight. here we are. almost 16 minutes in and all appears to be quiet.

other significant news into msnbc. conducted by the family of michael brown, an independent autopsy shows six shots fired at michael brown. we have a diagram of that and once we get that up, michael brown was shot once in the head, once in the eye, in the arm and in the chest. a total of six shots fired. we heard from the brown family attorney earlier who said while this is devastating information that they got from this independent autopsy, it gives them some assurance that more information is coming out. they ordered a federal medical examiner to perform another

autopsy on michael brown's body. while we are awaiting results from moving pieces as far as autopsy results. let's bring in msnbc's chris hayes who read the autopsy report. your perspective, chris. >> so the autopsy, i should say i skimmed the report and i had seen the photos in the report. the report, the most strike thing is the graze on the inside of the arm that people are talking about as being possibly consistent. one shot in the eye and in the top of the skull. there is also the fact that the autopsy has no shots in the back and even given eyewitness

accounts and running from the police officer firing on him, i think had their been a shot in the back, it would have been positive evidence. harder than any other situation than a crime being committed. >> you also consider the shot coming from the top of the skull. michael brown is a tall man. that indicates he may have been already falling down when that shot went in the top of the skull. >> yes. we know that some of the eyewitness testimony as he fires. we have not heard the officer's account of this in terms of those we heard of from him at the st. louis county police. we have not heard from the

officer himself or from the attorney what happened. anyone who looks at that will have a hard time not feeling that there has to be further activity. that's in terms of moving towards some kind of charges. it's going to be very, very difficult in the wake of this. they are not to be some kind of criminal charges filed given the fact that you now have three eyewitnesss who have come forward and three eyewitnesss who told stories that are broadly align and sometimes aligned quite well in terms of the details. the details paint a picture of something that is if correct is very clearly a crime. an autopsy that in certain respects seem to confirm some of that. this will eventually be litigated in a court of law.

and a trial for a jury. and the officer in question is not even charged yet, but one thing to think about is if you have this set of events in which the person firing the guns with the police officer and the person killed was not a civilian or the other way around or someone shooting someone else, there would be no question. they would have been arrest and charged immediately. there was no way that wouldn't be the case. that's palpable in every way. it's going to build until there is an announcement about what legal proceedings and charges can be brought. that autopsy today, that's the

autopsy that will be tomorrow and the independent autopsy that will be an advanced copy and the photos that i would imagine are horrifying to view. that basically increases that pressure. it really does. there is no other way around it. >> i asked the brown family attorney how they went about choosing this independent -- who would conduct this independent autopsy. the family sought them out by saying they went and looked and wanted somebody who was the best out there who could give us and tell us what happened to our son. they said they did seek out whoever did the autopsy and said they are the best. go ahead and do it. they didn't come to them. we are waiting by the way for a police briefing any moment. when that happens, we will bring it to the viewers. can you describe for us the situation there at all?

it seems from what we are seeing in the shot, members of the press and other law enforcement, are the streets clear other than that? >> we just drove around a bit and left that area where there was a little bit of a standoff and it dissipated quickly as police in riot gear moved in and vehicles instructed people to leave. in the drive back here to where the law enforcement staging area basically hadn't seen a single person on the street. it is quiet and dead out here. we are now pulling up outside the press conference here. so there is no -- at this moment and again, it might be early and i can't see right now. what is happening in areas around here. as of this moment, it seems that

the curfew is in effect and it's not being challenged by folks. >> hopefully that will be the case. we are looking at 23 minutes now past the hour. that curfew in effect in ferguson awaiting a police chiefing any moment to fill us in on the latest for night two of the state-imposed curfew in ferguson. any indication as far as tomorrow if the curfew will number place? that may be what they may be talking about tonight. >> very unclear much the curfew as i understand the curfew is ordered day by day. ordered yesterday and today. one of the key things to recognize here and i have been corresponding with the course here. there was nothing in question of whether the molotov cocktails or

bottles are being fired. according to him, they were tear gassed as well. all the gassing that happened happened hours and hours before the curfew last night. the tear gassing and standoff all happened and that results in the standoff over whether the curfew will be the case tonight. riot gear and tactical units and tear gas deployed well before the curfew. we will find out more from the police side about what they say was there reason for doing that. >> at this time yesterday all was quiet and we started seeing the armored trucks and the police line moving towards the protesters with the smoke and the tear gas fired yesterday. there was the assumption that

that was in response to people violating the curfew. we found out after police spoke out, ron johnson said it was in response to the people who were inside that barbecue restaurant and people were armed. the police car was shot at and there was a shooting victim who was in critical condition and transported yesterday. we will see what the police have to say about what may have instigated their response earlier. like you said, two hours or 2 1/2 hours before they took effect for them to have that. we had the reports from msnbc reporters there on the scene that shots were fired and they even saw firsthand that people were armed. they saw a person actually pointing the pistol and shooting the air. let's bring in ryan rile whoa with the "huffington post" were arrested earlier this week when they were being asked to clear the mcdonald's. me where you are and the situation where you are.

>> sure. right now we are at the road that we are close to thatted wells down to the place where michael brown was shot. there two barricades and they are closed down and on the main road here. we hear audio happening right now. i can't make out what it says down on the main road. there is a confrontation. we were recommended to leave the area, but officers that we saw said they were not going to tell us to leave. they remained here because of the location being very far and removed from the actual action on the ground here. >> can you clarify when that happened? you can clarify when they were recommending that you leave?

>> about 15 minutes ago and the officers were very professional with us. they had a dialogue with them about what our plans were and why we thought it was important to remain in the area. the key thing i think, one of the reasons that the decision was made to stay, they said there had been aware of no major changes in the facility here. they they remain the same and there wasn't -- their concern was for our safety, but they said there was no change from the circumstances that we were hanging out here or in the vicinity before. >> a much different encounter than the first you had. that's almost a week ago now. >> certainly. >> any indication of people not members of the media or law enforcement on the streets where you are?

>> not in the zone. we haven't seen anyone. it's the media here. there two locations of where the confrontations of happening and you can make out some confrontation happening down on the street here now. >> with any of the protesters, did they know about this independent autopsy reports conducted by michael brown's family that showed he was shot six times? >> the typing didn't work out so well. we were down there when i guess right before the tear gas that was fired and it was not there. i don't believe they were throughout at that point. we made our way down the street and had to avoid the tear gas. they made it back closer to the police line and followed the

police line. they had been willing for the most part to allow us to proceed. there was an officer who was sort of, wooing with us and as far as where we were allowed to be and they diffused the tense situations with members of the media and members of the police force. >> ryan reilly, thanks so much. let's turn to msnbc's chris hayes who was there at the area where police are about to give a press conference when that happens. we will bring it to you. are you with us? >> i'm here. how are you doing? >> okay. awaiting this press conference. it seems like those are members of the media behind you and they are faced one particular way. are they watching anything? is there a staging area behind

you or describe that for us. >> there is a staging area here, slous county police and state highway patrol using the area behind me for staging and to give press updates. there is a huge line of cruisers back there. we had about a half dozen fire instructions roll through and there was a briefing for officers over there. off to my left they were all sort of circled around a bright light. there is police on every stripe and uniform of every rank up and down and across the board here. you have police from all kinds of local areas. i imagine we are going to get for the press conference a blow by blow of what happened. i saw antonio french who was the city council person for st. louis who has been active and saying and talking about the

really small group of people who are engaging in setting fire in the market which i say firsthand about 20 minutes ago. that is a pretty small group. it seems to be causing a lot of trouble. it seems divorced from what is happening. largely without any of this kind of law breaking or tear gas. it does seem that there is a distinction within the folk that is being called the protesters between folks that are coming and protesting and organizing and on the street corners preaching and handing out leaflets and going out and saying don't shoot. i don't know what their politics are. it has been hard to interview

them. they were much more defined. there is probably just opportunistic mayhem. you have a situation that will be kind of a magnet attraction for folks who want to come out and throw down. there is a bunch of differently people operating at this point. it should be stated that the folks that may or may not be, we will find out from the police what they say happened, may or may not be throwing molotov cocktails. that is a small fraction. >> unfortunately for the police officers who are at home getting ready for a full day of getting their voices heard, they are the ones getting the media attention. the trouble makers are the ones that if this comes out and the armored trucks roll in, that will be covered. we saw it earlier where it seems in one case, they are shouting

back and catching the canisters to throw the rocks back. that is divide between the peaceful protesters who want change and want the message heard who will have frustration. and those guys who are getting a rise out of being out there stirring the trouble. >> again, i haven't talked to those folks. i can't speak for them about what the motivations are. there allegations about the cocktails. i can tell you what i see with my eyes. we should realize the reason i'm down here speaking to you and the reason there is about to be a briefing is because of any one trouble maker. it's because an 18-year-old teen was shot dead in the street in front of people and his body was

left out there for hours. >> now know shot six times from the autopsy for the family. >> exactly. ultimately whatever the expect spectrum is as far as how people are reacting to this, the fact is that it's tense here and tense because people are angry and angry because of what happened to mike brown and what they feel like happened before mike brown that brought about his death. that is the overriding message of all of this. to be honest, fining a way to effectively police the situation in which there is so much anger at the police. there is anger from the police towards the protesters. we saw tonight firsthand, finding a way to police that effectively in a way that doesn't lead to random stores being broken into and windows smashed and doesn't end up with 8-year-olds being tear gassed. so far we are weakened to this.

whatever that balance is and the right way to preserve people's first amendment rights, it doesn't seem quite like it. that said, we are an hour into curfew. i was driving through the streets and there was a little bit of a sense scene as soon as we hit that. police came out in the riot gear and people cleared. the drive through coming up here basically and everyone is off the streets in this area as far as i can see. people scattered through the side streets. it seems that tonight, the police may say that's because we decided to break out at 10:00. we have got curfew and rest right now. it will be interesting to hear about how they talk about the

decision. there have been several eyewitness accounts and what they say was a peaceful march. she was shot by a woman in her 50s shot by a rubber bullet. she was having a hard time finding an ambulance. one of the producers walked her over to the riot fleece cleared them and make sure she got an ambulance and she was limping around trying to find them with a relative of hers. >> it will be interesting to hear what vision they have for the approach and their posture after we had this oscillating series of knights in which there has been this massive overreach

in the beginning. this late night looting that happened last night and tonight. tear gas and rubber bullets and crowd control, making an appearance before the curfew. >> that was the case last night. we saw the increased presence and the tear gas being deployed. it wasn't until hours later when they stepped to the rhodium. that was because of the incident at that restaurant sparked where somebody was on the middle of the street and pointed the gun and shots were fired. the police car was shot at as well. it wasn't until hours later that we found out that was the case. we had seven arrests yesterday for police violating curfew. it remains to be seen what they will say when they step up to the microphones. >> the one thing that has been interesting to me or strange,

having covered other protests, large scale protests and other situations in which there is police and crowd control, usually there is a lot of arrests. usually the police come in and they handcuff people and use the plastic ties if they do a bunch of arrests, there have not been that many arrests. we have gone from the move to tear gas and rubber bullets. what happens is there is a formation and kettling that is happening. they are arrested and booked. i saw three young african-american men on a street corner. they were arrested. they were being put into a police vehicle.

there was a strange ratio between the level of unrest on the streets here and maybe that is a product of whether or not or how organized or not organized the late night em nations and the protests have been. >> any indication as to who what time this press conference is supposed to start? >> think imminently as far as i can tell. there is another briefing off to my left, there is another briefing with officers circled around. >> can your camera turn over there? >> it's going to be hard to get that shot because we will be -- we have lights set up and everything. >> no worries. >> it's not the most exciting image. i promise you. >> that is a good thing. anything uneventful and anything quiet at this point considering we are almost 40 minutes into this curfew in ferguson, that is a good thing that that curfew is

taking an effect and people are following it. we will see it again. a live look at the microphones as we are awaiting police to brief us on the situation. ferguson, more clashes and confrontations and those happening two hours before the curfew took place. reports of shots fired and people were armed on the streets with the scenes of the armored vehicles. canister after canister being thrown and those protests coming as empty autopsy was released by the family of michael brown. the results were showing he was shot six times from the front. one to the top of the skull and one to the eye and the back of the arm and the chest. again, the autopsy following those protests. let's go to the msnbc

contributor goldie taylor. as we approach 40 minutes into this curfew, what are your thoughts? with so many moving pieces here and then the information we are getting from this report as we are coming up 40 minutes into the curfew. >> i think that we are at a measured peace at the moment. i don't know what will happen come morning after we have them release the full results of a second autopsy. it seems to me that information remains controversial. i don't know how much more this community can take in terms of disjointed information coming to them. i truly wish we had more people on the ground in positions of authority who frankly trained in crisis communication and trained in how to disseminate information in a transparent way that is not quite so upsetting and doesn't have a meaningful relationship with the officers that patrol them. i made a mistake earlier

tonight. i said that the officer was from chesterfield. he is from crestwood, missouri. a 97% community community, but still affluent. we have to be very, very careful about how we distribute information and how it is received on this community. we have to be very careful about distributing information outside of a court ever law and legal context and outside of a rigorous cross-examination. if we leave it to the public to make their own decisions, they are going to make the decisions based on what they all right believe to be true about this case. that sulleys a jury pool and tarnishes the process. it lessens the likelihood that this officer or anyone involved can receive a fair and due process and if a trial happens to come, a fair trial. it concerns me. i'm waiting for this police department pressure. i think we all want answers to

how this escalated so far this evening. from individuals having an imp prom impromptu party to people being shot at and gas canisters being released. we need to understand why people were not cordoned off and arrested, but why there was such a mass response upon everyone out on the street prior to the curfew. you had people being threatened peaceful protesters being threatened and public officials with arrests. i think that we really need to take a step back and examine how this cross jurisdictional task force of officers is executing the duty tonight. >> already, goldie. stick with us. i know you are anxious as to what police had to say.

let's go back to chris hayes who is there. what can we expect as far as overall. when you have the protester who is are digesting this information about the empty autopsy and how they will go about it. all they want is change with distrust and law enforcement and wanting to see charges. what will it take as far as a pivotal point for them to see change to happen here? >> to me that is a great question. the key is this balloon of tension will continue to fill until there charges. that is going to be the thing that releases at night. we were talking earlier to benjamin crump who is one of the family attorneys for mike brown's family. he had represented the family of trayvon martin. we saw so much of the outrage initially was at the scene of the crime they let george

zimmerman go and this was not being to be prosecute and he was not going to get a day in court because the police had said this is not a crime. that was what produced such anger and protests. what happened was when the charges came, some of the pressure was released. i can't see them releasing until then. that's what people are looking for. the feeling is that a crime was committed. how people feel here. the people feel that a murder was committed in the midst of their streets in broad daylight by law enforcement and walked around and the scene at the time, there were protests within an hour of the shooting and people were watching this happen. they were yelling at police officers who called for reinforcemen

reinforcements. until they feel like the law is treating that matter with a seriousness it deserves, until there changes brought against the officer in question who we know shot according to the empty autopsy and one in the top of the skull, until changes are brought, i don't see the tension diminishing. the expectation here is people witnessed a crime committed by police. that's how people feel. whether it was a crime or not, that is to be determined in a court of law. it is being determined by a prosecutor and unless and until there charges brought, i can't see the situation being less tense. >> the prosecutor is in question as well. >> that's a great point. the prosecutor in question is a guy by the name of bob mccull

ogh to step aside. let me tell you, one of the nights i was down there broadcasting on the show. we talked about his commends on thursday night. the day that the governor announced he would be relieving the local police and st. louis county police of the command or at least the oversight of the security response. that was unanimously hailed as a wise decision. after that happened, the one voice was the county prosecutor who will be prosecuting if this officer is prosecuted. he said that decision was a denegration of the good men and women of the ferguson police office. when i was talking about that, a man watched the show who lived a few blocks away and walked down to where we were broadcasting. i watched the show and i don't trust him. i have state senators who told

me that and the county executive and people on the county council and people i interviewed. it's hard to find someone in the african-american community in ferguson where there is anyone that feels that they trust they will give this case a fair shake. >> they from goldie taylor who wants to jump in. i'm sure you are feeling passion when it comes to this too. >> i am. chris is right about bob. he inherited that office and has not sewn seeds of trust throughout the kmund. i assume you will have a request for a speciprosecutor tomorrow morning. there will be african-american lawyers from around that region. you have to look at the prosecutor's history and how has he prosecuted other similar crimes and there is another case

that is in not so recent history where there was the death of a black man at the hands of a white police officer with no changes brought. i have the documentation on air with me tomorrow. at the end of the day, there is a very long and tough history. there was a primary challenge to bob by an african-american woman, a democrat and she was trounced because there was a low voter turn out. we are talking about a primary election within a mid-term at the local level. those turn out levels are almost always historically low. i think he sailed back into office and has no opposition this fall. there is no accountability between skmehim. it is up to his office and his discretion how strong of a case

they decide to put on before a grand jury. how much do they believe in this case? the people of st. louis county, everyone that chris is hearing from and everyone that i am hearing from, no one believes that bob mccollough to seek an indictment against this officer. >> the tensions have been brewing and deeply rooted when it comes to the prosecutor and the law enforcement. i want to bring you in because one of the interviews that struck me when you have been reporting is with that cab whoa gave us perspective and history. the insight that makes you understand why we are here at this hour. in a curfew in ferguson, missouri after this teenager was gunned down. fill us in on what you learned from that interview. it's fascinating. >> i ran into him out on the street. he is the guy whose second

generation st. louis county. his folks grew up here in what they call north county. he talked about the fact that this area got the suburban instrument and it was a place where a lot of folks inside the city limits moved in the 1960s post brown when the schools were desegregat desegregated. there was a lot of desegregation and they moveed from north st. louis into st. louis county. that was kind of irish catholic working class pro-life, prolabor democrat. it's a political profile that goes back to reagan democrats. you find them in the south suburbs on the southside of chicago, illinois. that's what the area was and in the last 10 or 20 years, a lot of folks are moving into north county from the city also who are african-american. you have seen these towns go

from being 20% or 30% african-american and transitions happen over 15 to 20 years. the establishment remains the same. it's the same folks who have heard there for two or three generations. that's why you have the strange racial disparity. you don't even have a school board that is all white. forget about the city council or the police, they are overseeing the school system that is more african-american than the town at large. it's about 80% african-american. in fact the school superintendent was african-american. he was just fired. throughout the county, this deep racial subtext. for instance, he just lot of a primary. not but a week and a half ago. the white candidate was endorsed

by none more than bob mccullough. he was in that primary and you have thisization if you have been in the context of urban politics, they tent to be very intensely fought along demographic lines particularly in areas where you have a mix of different people and different communities that want or feel different things or have complaints and the system finds ways to mediate all of those. that's not always what suburban politics look like. more and more they look like that across the country. they look like that in north county. what you think of as urban politics come to north county and there is still a time lapse feeling to the way that the politics function because the white establishment continues to be so entrenched and powerful. >> certainly fascinating when he

gave you that perspective. i'm curious. did you stumble upon him or hail him for a cab and -- >> she like a real character. she very well-known and he's the guy who has a big twitter following. he has a big bushy beard driving around in his cab. he converted in the early 1990s under the influence of hip hop. a fascinating guy. a lot of folks around him started pointing to his twitter handle saying you have to follow him if you want to see what's going on on the ground. he posted video a few nights ago. one of the things happening here, people out there are getting this image of ferguson, missouri. goldie will back me up here. ferguson is effectively a neighborhood more than a town really. all of the surroundings border

them and it's not like there is a big border when you are stepping out of ferguson. they are birds of a feather and he had a police officer stopping him saying you cannot come in. this is before curfew and this is old school rules where all these municipalities are on lockdown. they don't want people out in the streets and don't want trouble makers. the entire area is on a kind of lockdown right now. >> absolutely. as that is the case, 55 minutes in, almost an hour into this curfew, we are waiting if are a police briefing that should happen any moment now. we will bring it to you live as it happens. for now let's turn to our msnbc law enforcement analyst. jim, i know you had perspective you wanted to add with this independent autopsy. the reports that came out that shows that michael brown was

shot. he had six shots to the front of his body. >> right and goldie and chris, it has been released. i met dr. bob and i have been to his homicide seminars. he is a top flight medical examiner and a very nice guy. he comes down to the nashville area and talks to all the homicide detectives almost once a year on that circuit. we enjoy his lectures. looking at the autopsy report, the one thing i noticed. we talked about the shot to the top of the head and the shot to the eye is interesting. it went in the eye and went to the jaw and exited by the collarbone. the trajectory on the shot to the eye and the medical examiner will have to clear this up, but it looks to be a downward path.

a little bit. michael brown is 6'4". you have a projectile in the eye and out the jaw and the collarbone. the last fatal shot as we talked about and i think the doctor referred to it as well in his report it might very well have been the top of the head and one right before that, the in the eye. the four shots in the right arm. that's also consistent with what dorrian said. chris interviewed him on his show on an excellent interview when i think he got him on a first exclusive and brought out the details. dorian said when he was shot near the car, he saw blood on the right side of michael brown. one of the four shots likely was at the police cruiser and he turned to run and dorian and the other witness said they saw him

jerk. we know there was no shot from the back. some discussion of a grazing wound, but the autopsy said it's all from the front. it could have been michael brown just reacting to the gunfire. when you have a loud sound, he might have reacted and it didn't hit him and might have went past his ear and the witnesses felt he was hit by the round. it's not dispositive of what the witnesses said and the two shots to the head may indicate he was falling wounded or going down and surrendering in either case. six shots to the front and one would have happened at the cruiser and the other five happened 30 feet away at a distance of at least three feet. the significant data. >> i wanted to pull up the diagram. it is interesting that you can take away again from what you said from the bullet that is skimming the top of the head

that may indicate he was on his way down. he was falling down. interesting perspective on the shot to the eye. from the inner arm, could that point to maybe his posturing of holding his hands up? that is signature and becoming an iconic gesture with these protesters, hands up, don't shoot. is that consistent? >> these are questions we are just bringing up as analysts, but they would have to be answered by the doctor or if the government uses the armed forces institute of pathology, that's what we use on the fatality cases. they have these tremendous medical examiners. the fbi use them as well. i don't know if that's who they are using, but they are a top flight group. between the county examiner and if it's the armed forces institute, they will be able to tell what can be told from the

examination of michael brown. the investigation moves ahead once again and i do agree with goldie. we talk about it because we are in the press here, but sometimes this stuff is better if it wasn't out there. now it's out there and likely all over ferguson before we even talked about it. it's another thing the citizens will have to absorb and we hope it doesn't get more angst later tonight or tomorrow. >> you know this pathology who conducted the autopsy for the brown family. what can you tell us more about them? i was curious and i asked the brown family attorney how they went about in choosing or getting the pathology they said, he is known as the best around. they chose him and it's not like he sought them out. this family specifically went out and asked them to do it. tell us more about what you know. >> the doctor was the chief medica