streets of ferguson, the main drag here and neighborhoods as well. one of the things that happened last night is that you had a number of law enforcement resources that ended up being essentially tied up here protecting again the command center and there were not as many boots on the ground so to speak for lack of a better phrase. but there weren't as many folks -- law enforcement officers available to patrol the surrounding areas. we just heard again from the highway patrol that they are going to be commanding -- protecting the command center but what we don't know is how much -- i was told earlier, alex, that should things get out of hand in the neighborhood nearby, should things get out of hand once again on this sort of main drag, that the national guard will be able to respond there as well. i think a lot of what the national guard does tonight of course is going to depend on the

events of the evening. it's also important to note that this is a very unusual in that not just obviously the national guard being deployed but also the fact that the national guard is going to be under the command of the highway patrol. that is something that is also very unusual, if not unprecedented. >> in terms of the new sort of stipulations, the new rules around protesting, crowds are being told they can walk up and down the sidewalk but they can't stand con greg gate in one place. that's there been any back and force between those who would like to exercise their constitutional rights to gathering? >> reporter: yes, there has been some pushback as i think you're aware. we were -- our broadcast location earlier today, was where it has been for the past couple of days in front of that burned out gas station there.

we were told a few hours ago that we had to pick up and move as well as were these protesters. a number of the folks i talked to, all of these changes didn't do much to stop protesters and it forces them to change their plans. it's unclear why that change was made earlier and they were told by local police who said that they were acting under directive from the highway patrol that while they could -- they could march in this particular area down by this gas station and march there but they could not gather there. they could not peaceably assemble there. it's going to be very interesting to see how that plays out in a couple of hours. while the curfew has been lifted, what does that mean then

for these protests that we have seen start typically when the sun goes down. >> craig, hang with me. we want to come back later on the broadcast. joining me is the host of politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. it has been dramatic and every day brings new drama in the case of michael brown. we want to talk about the autopsy, the fact the parents had their own autopsy wconducte and released to the public and we still don't have an official from laus enforcement in ferguson, how much longer do you think they can wait? >> that's a question that has to be answered to them. it's amazing to me the family can get an independent autopsy. they still don't have one. you have no announcement at all about a grand jury and nothing about arresting a policeman

where there seems to be more than probable cause and you have a police chief on a day he's going to release the policeman's name put out a tape that he admits later has nothing to do with anything. they wonder why the people down there don't trust them. if you take all of this from the autopsy across the board, it doesn't take a genius to figure out why they have really had an atmosphere of distrust every single day that they were not acting in a way that is transparent and fair. they have sent that and that's the distrust i'm hearing. i've been there twice this week at the request of the family. that's what i keep hearing. how can we trust them? >> they say ron johnson tasked with overseeing this and member of the community and had a different and better attitude towards the community. at the same time ron johnson said publicly, he was not consulted before the police chief released this surveillance

video of michael brown. it does make one question -- how much power ron johnson has, how much they are actually delegating things. >> absolute lixt ron johnson was on "politics nation" with me friday night and had words with them with them because he didn't know. what is telling, we had literally thousands of people at the rally last night that national action network and national bar association had. we had ron johnson speak. he was -- there's a profile on him speaking on the daily news in new york when i got back. these people are not anti-police. the protesters are not anti-police. johnson was applauded given an ovation last night. they are against what's wrong. to just blanketly act they are anti-police, that's crazy. they are dealing with a series of situations that have to be questioned. and alex, the only way to not

have a police state is police can be questioned when you have people dead that were unarmed and a lot of questions. when you tell me i can't question that, now you're at a police state where you're saying, no matter what i do, you can't question me. that is a police state and intolerable. >> we're waiting president obama expected to speak on the events at ferguson and in iraq. we know attorney general eric holder has been ten ashs in his support and ordered a federal autopsy, which is historic. and launching the department of justice's own criminal investigation. what more would you like to see from the president and do you think his response thus far has been adequate? >> i've been involved in talking with the family and attorneys. a lot of people that have made analysis have not. i think that you've got to be very careful that the president and attorney general do what is right and all they can from a

federal level which is fair. without going overboard that would hurt the case of the family if in fact they are able to get an indictment. because what you don't need is for this policeman to say, it was political, the president made them do it. when i've talked to the people at the white house and i have, around this, i've said, do what is necessary by law. he ought to speak out and this is his third statement since this happened. he broke the vacation twice, making his third statement. do what you can but don't tip the scales until nine months down the road if we get a trial they can use you against us. you've got to be -- a lot of people talk and talk to get on television. then never been involved in a case. you do not want to look like this is political. at the same time though, i've noticed the larn gits of others that want to get where the president is. i'm looking for where's chris christie and jeb bush and hillary clinton, i'm still

waiting on them to come out and say we're in a national crisis and people don't want to lead the nation have not made a statement. many of them come from states that have issues themselves. why have we had a lot of critics about what's going on with the president. i want to see what's going on with the potential presidential candidates. >> your mention of the clintons is a given one. bill clinton was called the first black president. >> given that stat an island we're having a big march there around eric garner's case and senator from new york. i don't think that's out of whack. there's a number of cases in new jersey, governor christie and all of us know about trayvon in florida, jeb bush. it seems you can't have a different standard for different people of we challenged barack obama when he was a candidate on the sean bell case and he wasn't from new york. let's have one standard here. but also, let us not poison in any way have a bias setting on

what's going to happen with this case. the attorney general to do a autopsy is right. the president is right and should make statements and come out strong but it should not be to the degree that it would be an expense of these parents seeking justice for their son. >> to that end, the parents seeking justice, bob mckul loug, at this moment the prosecutor handling this case. a lot of folks say this is not the right guy to handle it. what would you like to see happen in terms of legal -- >> i think the federal government should come in. it should be a federal prosecution. martin luther king iii talked about mckul loug should step aside and i agreed with him. a lot of people talking, never involved in a case, to bring federal civil rights charges, you do not need race. if you establish the state used excessive force, that is a violation of civil rights and

you can go to federal court. we did it with -- those policemen are still in jail right now. so i have fought cases that we've won and lost, but i challenge anybody to say they've been involved in many as we have that won. i know the elements. and i'm telling you, this can go in the federal court with a federal investigation. >> let me ask you one more question. bringing the national guard in, was that -- is that the right -- there were various lawmakers saying that's the thing to do. the national guard is deployed. unknown number of national guardsmen and women in ferguson. some folks will say they are keeping peace. where do you stand? >> i think it creates an atmosphere of occupation of military forces. i think that it is -- it may lead to even more confrontation. and i'm very, very concerned when i hear how you limit

people's right to protest. again, are we in police state? we're already told shut up and don't question us, like an 18-year-old unarmed man dead, nothing to question. now we're going to have all of this concentration. lastly, where they come up with all of the resources, the same pemd that told us at the beginning of summer, no money to do jobs or training but they found a whole lot of money to do a whole lot of things around this. i'm not saying you don't protect property. you should protect property but also should have priorities that would help those kids. a lot of those kids do not come from that area and some of those people are for justice, some are not. some are exploiting the situation. i was there. and i've talked to some. i note difference. >> just to put a bow on this, one of the things that has disturbed me here, there is prominent african-american faces that appear in places like missouri in moments like this.

i think it's important to say this is not a black thing or white thing. this is an american issue. and in so far as there are new people being brought in, think what you're saying and i agree with this, this is about having a representative from the community that can talk to the community. it really doesn't sound like it matters what their skin color is, as long as there's a dialogue. >> one of the things i found interesting, alex, there's been a lot of people of all races in this protest from the community. at the rallies from the community, white and black. i think that is good. i think those of us that are from the outside. i came because of family invited me. they introduced me last night to make it clear. we should come in and support the local leadership like reverend leaders working with us. i don't think we should come in and dictate anything. they've got to live there when we're gone. but the people there need to know they do have national support and want to see

solutions, not just making noise but leading towards solving the problem. >> indeed and the president will be making the point it is a national issue in a few minutes. we'll take a quick break. thank you as always. >> don't forget to catch rev tonight and every night on "politics nation", 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, more on investigation michael brown's killing next on "now." it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you can do just that. with our visionary cloud infrastructure, global broadband network and custom communications solutions, your business is more reliable - secure - agile. and with responsive, dedicated support, we help you shine every day of the week. centurylink your link to what's next.

on your busiest day, you see the gray. try root touch up by nice 'n easy. just brush our permanent color matching creme right where you need it. then rinse. in 10 minutes, zap those grays and get on with your day. nice 'n easy root touch up.

one cannot truly understand america without understanding the historical experience of black people in this nation, simply put, to get to the heart

of this country, one must examine its racial soul. this nation has probably thought of itself as a ethnic melting pot in things racial, we have always been and we i believe continue to be in too many ways essentially a nation of cowards. >> shortly after being sworn in, eric holder used harsh language to describe america's relationship to race. since then holder has been at the vanguard of the administration's actions on civil rights and death of michael brown has proved no exception. today the ag briefed the president on ferguson as he has done every day since the 18-year-old was first shot and killed. holder announced due to extraordinary circumstances the justice department would take the rare step of conducting a federal autopsy on brown's body as part of its civil rights investigation. moments ago, eric holder exited a meeting with president obama who is in turn expected to speak any minute fou. joining me now is harvard law

school professor, charles ogletree and jonathan capehart. let me start with you, professor in terms of the broad contours of what has happened down in missouri. it really underscores a dynamic in this administration that seems unique and i would love to get your thoughts on this. wherein the federal government is increasingly the protector of minority rights, whether it's doma and gay marriage or voter suppression efforts or rights in minutes or criminal justice prosecution and the states are the ones that have been pitted in the position of taking away the rights of citizens or limiting them. how unprecedented is that to your mind? >> well, this is very precedented because it happened before in the 1950s when people were marching and trying to be treated fairly. you can talk to congressman john lewis and he'll tell you about the beatings of blacks by police and how it affected them going

across the bridge, a peaceful rally, nonviolent people. and it keeps happening again and again. we saw trav trayvon martin and black men being victims of shootings by law enforcement officers and need to stop it. the thing about it, alex, these law enforcement officers are now armed as if they are in vietnam, in afghanistan. this is not a war on the community. they can't do that. and look at the police force in ferguson, missouri. 53 people are on the police force, three of them are black. the community is almost 70% black. we're not asking for making the numbers work just because the numbers are unfair, but the reality is that this black crowd is looking at people saying, they are not from our community. they don't understand what we're going through. they are profiling me because i'm black. that has to stop and ferguson

has to stop across the country no question about it. >> let me ask a quick follow on that. given the dynamic that is not unprecedented, it is on a very singular issue that we have this repeated sort of tension between federal and state authorities and in specific countries, do you see any signs that that may change -- specific states? do you see any signs of that dynamic shifting any time soon? it feels like these sort of states rights movements if you will is as entrenched as it has been in the last half century? >> i think i'm an openty miss and would say i would hope there are signs that things are going to change but i don't think things are going to change. what's happening in ferguson, missouri is going to be happening around the country. the people are angry, an 18-year-old unarmed nonviolent african-american boy was shot and killed with his hands up. you know, asking for mercy,

asking for peace. he was shot in the back reported, 6 to 8 times. it makes no sense at all. the people are frustrated buzz they are not having meetings. the whole idea is having the curfew or something else. those things are interesting and it works in baltimore because it's a different focus. but right now you have this military police force in the town of ferguson, missouri and that's why we think these things are going to deep happening and people will keep getting arrested and showing up. i think even though civil rights leaders have been there, that's important that they are there. the reality is the community has taken it on itself. the mother has to bury an 18-year-old kid who was going to go to a trading school and just finishing high school, who was loved by people who know him very well. and now she's talking about a funeral, talking about what he's going to wear. never having children of his own and never being an adult.

never being a father with children that he's going to take out to places. it's a very serious thing. i think as much as we can say there's nothing like it. i think what we've seen is this is the beginning of any more struggles around ferguson, missouri, but around the country because people are not happy with what's happening in chicago and in new york and what's happening in new jersey, or what's happening in southern california. you look around the nation and everywhere we look at, crime, young black men dead before they reach the age of adulthood, it's tragic. >> jonathan, professor ogletree brings up the important thing to remember here, which is that a mother has to bury her son, a son who will never go on to have an adult life. and the moments we're awaiting the president, the moments where this president has been most forceful in the bully pulpit are the ones where he speaks to personal experience and to

feelings, whether those of being a father or black man in america, i think of course the trayvon martin comments he made, he's been criticized in the last week from some leaders in the african-american community for not coming out more forcefully. one would imagine the fact he is giving a statement today, the third since this began, i wonder what your expectations are as far as what we might hear from him? >> my expectations from the president on ferguson are i think decidedly limited. what's different between the ferguson incident and trayvon martin is that here in the ferguson incident we have law enforcement. we have a police officer who killed an unarmed person while on duty. and the last time the president waded into a racialized incident with a law enforcement official was when harvard law professor skip gates' was arrested by cambridge police at his own home

and the president was asked about it. and he waded into the conversation rather innocently and giving his opinion on the police and their actions. he's not going to make that mistake this time. and as you rightly pointed out, this will be the third time the president speaks on this. the previous two times he's been very careful to only talk about the need for healing and understanding but also delivering an implicit warning to those who are trying to capitalize on the pain and heart ache in ferguson to advance other pernicious ends. i'm talking about the looters and folks who are apparently going down to ferguson and wreaking havoc when there are people within the community who are pleading with everyone to not take away from the message of seeking justice for the killing of michael brown.

>> professor ogletree, let's talk about what jonathan brought up, the skip gates controversy that many folks will say, almost burned this president and made him much more reluctant to address the issue of race head on and be critical -- let's be fair of law enforcement. do you agree with that? do you think it set this presidency on a different pagt than the one it might otherwise have taken? >> let me give a context. i was skip gates' lawyer. what i said in the book, the presumption of guilt that gates was presumed guilty because he was black, it was helpful in one sense. a friend of mine, prominent professor at harvard, someone who had gone through all of the channels to become a professor, tenured professor at harvard university, very nice house and was profiled because he happened to be a black man. and it wasn't first time but it was a remarkable time to see an

aged black man in az 50s then have this happen to him and see what happens going forward. now what does it all mean? it means that the president obama can't give the same address before. he said this, the cambridge police acted stupidly. you can't say that about the police. because you can't indict the whole police department. they didn't do that. you have to focus on what's happening. and he's been very careful since then but i think he has to stand tall and make statements about people like trayvon martin. he did after george zimmerman was acquitted. he has to make statements about michael brown, needed to do that right now. if possible, he should go to the funeral. that would be very important and make sure he has a relationship like refrn end sharpton has with the family. now is the time for president obama to stand strong and stand up and let the world know, i am the national leader, george h.w. bush did it when rodney king was beat by police in california, many decades ago. now the president, the highest

ranking person in america has to stand -- >> i'm going to have to cut you off, the president is taking to the podium to make statements on the killing of michael brown. >> an update from my team on two separate issues that i've been following cloegsly are ongoing operation in iraq and the situation in ferguson, missouri. with respect to iraq, we continue to see important progress across different parts of our strategy to support the iraqi government. and combat the threat from the terrorist group isil. first, our military operations are effectively protecting our personnel and facilities in iraq. over the last 11 days, american air strikes have stopped the isil advance and pushed back the terrorists. meanwhile, we have urgently provided additional arms and assistance to iraqi forces, including kurdish and iraqi security forces fighting on front lines.

today with our support the iraqi and kurdish forces took a major step forward by recapturing the largest dam in iraq near the city of mosul, the dam fell under terrorist control earlier this month and directly tied to our objective of protecting americans in iraq. if that dam was breached, this could have proven kas strofic with floods that would have threatened the lives of thousands of civilians and endanger our embassy compound in baghdad. iraqi and kurdish forces took the lead on ground and performed with courage and determination. this operation demonstrates that they are capable of working together and taking the fight to isil. if they continue to do so, they'll have the strong support of the united states of america. second, we're building an international coalition to address the humanitarian crisis in northern iraq. even as we've worked to help many thousands of yazidis escape

the siege of mt. sinjar hundreds have been displaced by the unbalance. and the united states will work together with the iraqi government and ulted kingdom and france and italy and australia, to get food and water to people in need and bring long-term relief to people who have been driven from their homes. third, we will continue to pursue a long-term strategy to turn the tide against isil by supporting the new iraqi government and working with key partners in the region and beyond. over the last week we saw historic progress as iraqis named a new prime minister designate haider al abadi and the outgoing prime minister maliki agreed to step down. this peaceful transition of power will mark a major milestone in iraq's political developments bumt the work is not done. dr. abadi needs to complete the work of forming a new broad

based, inclusive iraqi government. one that develops a national program to address the interests of all iraqis. without that progress, extremists like isil can continue to prey upon iraq's divisions. with that new government in place, iraqis will be able to unite the country against the threat from isil and be able to look forward to increased support, not just from the united states but from other countries in the region and around the world. let's remember, isil poses a threat to all iraqis and to the entire region. they claim to represent sunni grievances but they slaughter sunni men, women and children and plan to oppose foreign forces but they actively recruit foreign fighters to advance their hateful ideology. the iraqi people need to reject them and unite to begin to push them out of the lands they've occupied as we're seeing at

mosul dam. this will take time. there are going to be many challenges ahead. meanwhile there should be no doult that the united states military will continue to carry out the limited missions that i've authorized, protecting our personnel and facilities in iraq and both erbil and imagine dad baghdad and mount sinjar. my administration consulted closely with congress about our strategy in iraq and will do so in the weeks to come. we need to be united in our resolve. i also want to address the situation in ferguson, missouri. earlier this afternoon i spoke with governor nixon as well as senators roy blunt and claire mccaskill and made with attorney general eric holder. the justice department has opened an independent federal civil rights investigation into the death of michael brown. they are on the ground and along

with the fbi devoting substantial resources to that investigation. the attorney general himself will be traveling to ferguson on wednesday to meet with the fbi agents and doj personnel conducting the federal criminal investigation and he will receive an update from them on their progress. he will also be meeting with other leaders in the community whose support is so critical to bringing about peace and calm in ferguson. ronald davis, the director of the doj's community oriented policing organization, or kops, is traveling to ferguson to work with police officials on the ground. we had experts from the community service working in ferguson since the days after the shooting to foster conversations among local stake holders and reduce tensions among the community. let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there. we have all seen images of protesters and law enforcement in the streets.

it's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. it's also clear that a small minority of individuals are not. while i understand the passions and anger that arise over the death of michael brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns and even attacking the police, only serves to race tensions and stir chaos. it undermines rather than advancing justice. let me also be clear our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble and report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. there's no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. ours is a nation of laws. for the citizens to live under them and for the citizens who

enforce them. so to a community in ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other, let's seek to heal rather than to wound each other. as americans we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bear by this moment. the potential of a young man and sorrow of his parents and frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united american family. i've said this before, in too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. in too many communities, too many young men of color are left behind and seen only as objects of fear. through initiatives like my

brother's keeper, i'm personally committed to changing both perception and reality. and already we're making some significant progress as people of good will of all races are ready to chip in. but that requires that we build and not tear down. and that requires we listen and not just shout. that's how we're going to move forward together. by trying to unite each other and understand each other and not simply divide ourselves from one another. we're going to have to hold tight to those values in the days ahead. that's how we bring about justice and how we bring about peace. with that i've got a few questions i'm going to take. i'm going to start with jim. >> the incident in ferguson has led to a discussion whether it's proper to militaryize the police forces and i'm wonder whether you think that you see that as a

factor regarding the police response in ferguson and also do you agree with the decision by the governor to send in the national guard? >> well, i think one of the great things about the united states has been our ability to maintain a distinction between our military and domestic law enforcement. that helps preserve our civil liberties. that helps ensure that the military is accountable to civilian direction. and that has to be preserved. after 9/11 i think understandably a lot of folks saw local communities that were ill equipped for a potential catastrophic terrorist attack. and i think people in congress, people of goodwill decided we've got to make sure they get proper equipment to deal with threats that historically wouldn't arise

in local communities. some didn't have radios they could operate effectively in the midst of a disaster. some communities needed whether there was a chemical attack and they didn't have hazmat suits. having said that, i think it's probably useful for us to review how the funding has gone how local law enforcement used grant dollars to make sure that what they are purchasing is stuff they actually need. there's a big difference between our military and local law enforcement and we don't want the lines blurred. that would be contrary to our

positions and there will be bipartisan interest in reexamining some of those programs. with respect to the national guard, i think it's important to remember this was a state activated national guard so it's under the charge of the governor. this is not something that we initiated at the federal law. i spoke to jay nixon about this, expressed an interest in making sure that if in fact the national guard is used, it's used in a limited and appropriate way. he described the support role they are going to be providing to local law enforcement and i'll be watching over the next several days to assess whether in fact it's helping rather than hindering progress in ferguson. >> steve? >> how long do you think it will take to contain isil? >> well, i have been firm from

the start we are not reintroducing thousands of u.s. troops on ground to engage in could combat. we're not the iraqi military or iraqi air force. i'm the commander in chief of the united states armed forces. and iraq is going to have to ultimately provide for its own security. on the other hand we've got a national security interest in making sure our people are protected and making sure that a savage group that seems willing to slaughter people for no rhyme or reason other than they have not -- that a group like that is contained because ultimately it can pose a threat to us. my goal is number one, to make sure we've got a viable partner. and that's why we have so consistently emphasized the need

for a government formation process that is inclusive, that is credible and legitimate. and that can appeal to sunnis as well as shias and kurds. we've made significant progress on that front but we're not there yet. and i told my national security team today and i will say publicly, that we want to continue to communicate to politicians of all stripes in iraq, don't think that because we have engaged in air strikes to the people, that now is the time to let the foot off the gas and return to the same kind of dysfunction that has so weakened the country generally. dr. abadi has said the right things, i was impressed about his vision for an inclusive government but they've got to get this done. the wolf is at the door and in order for them to be credible with the iraqi people, they are

going to have to put behind some of the old practices and actually create a credible united government. when we see a credible iraqi government, we are then in the position to engage with planning, not just with the iraqi government but also with regional actors and folks beyond the middle east so that we can craft the kind of joint strategy, joint counterterrorism strategy that i discussed at west point and i discussed several years ago at the national defense college. our goal is to have effective partners on ground. if we have effective partners on the ground, mission creep is much less likely. typically what happens is when we start deciding that we're the ones who have to do it all ourselves and that -- because of the excellence of our military,

that can work for a time. we learned that in iraq. but it's not sustainable. it's not lasting. and so i've been very firm about this, precisely because our goal here has to be to be able to build up a structure not just in iraq but regionally that can be maintained. and that is not involving us effectively trying to govern or impose our military will on a country that is hostile to us. >> i don't think, steve, at this point i'm prepared to provide a blanket answer to that. a lot of it depends on how effectively the iraqi government comes together. i think that you will see if in fact that government formation process moves rapidly and kredably, that there will be a

lot of actors in the region around the world prepared to help. and a step up assistance, many of whom have been receipt ret sent over the past years because the presepgs was at least that baghdad was not being inclusive and it was going to be self-defeating to put more resources into it. i think you'll see a lot of folks step up. suddenly now iraq will have a variety of partners and with more folks unified around the effort, i think it's something that can be -- can be accomplished. it also means that there's the prospect of sunni tribes who are the primary residence of areas that isil now controls saying we've got a viable option. and we would rather work with a central government that appears to understand our grievances and prepared to meet them rather than to deal with individuals

who don't seem to have any values beyond death and destruction. i'm going to take the last question from somebody who after 41 years i understand has decided to retire. and ann compton, everybody here knows is not only the consu sume profession professional, i was proud to hug her grand baby recently and i suspect that might have something to do with her decision. but i want to say publicly, ann, we're going to miss you and very, very proud of the extraordinary career and work that you've done and we hope you're not a stranger around here. >> thank you very much. [ applause ]

>> i suspect you may get cake at some point. >> let me ask you, this is an interesting time in your presidency. and one of the things that you have so emphasized in the last few months and last year or so is this reach out to brothers -- my brother's keeper and to a generation that doesn't feel it has much -- sending the attorney general to ferguson is a step. has anyone there asked you or have you considered going yourself? is there more you personally can do, not just for ferguson but for communities that might also feel that kind ever tension and see it erupt in the way it has in ferguson. >> ann, obviously, we've seen events in which there's a big gulf between community perceptions and law enforcement perceptions around the country. this is not something new. it's always tragic when it involves the death of someone so

young. i have to be very careful about not pre-judging these events before investigations are completed because although these are issues of local jurisdiction, the doj works for me and when they are conducting investigation i've got to make sure that i don't look like i'm putting my enthusiasm thumb on the scales one way or the other. it's hard for me to address a specific case beyond making sure that it's conducted in a way that is transparent and people can trust the process hoping that as a consequence of fair and just process you end up with a fair and just outcome. but as i think i've said in some

past occasions, part of the ongoing challenge of perfecting our union has involved dealing with communities that feel left behind. wloe as a consequence of histories find themselves isolated and without hope, without economic prospects. you have young men of color in many communities who are more likely to end up in jail or in the criminal justice system than they are in a good job or in college. part of my job to do without getting into conflicts is to get at root causes, that's a big

project. it's one that we've been trying to carry out now for a couple of centuries. and we've made extraordinary progress but we have not made enough progress. so the idea behind something like my brother's keeper is can we work with cities and communities and clergy and parents and young people themselves all across the country, school superintendents, businesses, corporations and can we find models that work that move the young men on a better track. part of the process is looking at the criminal justice system to make sure that it upholding the law and one of the things that we've looked at during the course of where we can go in the

course of investigating where we can make a difference is that there are patterns that start early. young african-american and hispanic boys tend to get suspended from school at much higher rates than other kids. even when they are in elementary school. they tend to have much more frequent interactions with the criminal justice system at an earlier age. sentencing may be different. you know, how trials are conducted may be different. and so one of things that we've done is to include department of justice in this conversation under the banner of my brother's keeper to see, where can we start working with local

communities to have more confidence in the criminal justice system. and i want to be clear about this because sometimes i think there's confusion around these issues and this dates back for decades. there are young black men that commit crime. and we can argue about why that happens because of the poverty they were born into and lack of opportunity or school systems that failed them or what have you. if they commit a crime, then they need to be prosecuted because every community has an interest in public safety. if you go into the african-american community or latino community, some of the folks who are most intent on making sure that the criminals are dealt with or people -- this

is not an argument that there isn't real crime out there and law enforcement doesn't have a difficult job. and you know, that they have to be honored and respected for the danger and difficulty of law enforcement. but what is also true is that given the history of this country, where we can make progress in building up more confidence, more trust, making sure that our criminal justice system is acutely aware of the possibilities of disparities in treatment, there are safeguards in place to avoid those disparities and where training and assistance is provided to local law enforcement who may just need more information in order to avoid potential disparity, all of the things can

make a difference. one of the things i was most proud of when i was in the state legislature, way back when i had no gray hair and none of you could pronounce my name, was i passed legislation requiring videotaping of confessions and passed legislation dealing with racial froe filing in illinois. we worked with local law enforcement and the args. was you could do a better job as a law enforcement official if you have built up credibility and trust. there are some basic things that can be done to promote that kind of trust. in some cases it was lack of information. we want to make sure we get that information to law enforcement. there are things that can be done to improve, but short term

we have to make sure that the cause of justice and fair administration of the law is being brought to bear in ferguson in order to do that, we've got to make sure that we are able to distinguish between peaceful protesters who may have some legitimate grievances and maybe longstanding grievances and those who are using this tragic death as an excuse to engage in criminal behavior and tossing molotov cocktails or looting stores. that is a small minority of folks and it may not even be residents of ferguson, but they are damaging the cause, not advancing it. all right, thank you very much. that was president obama speaking about the situation in

ferguson and iraq. back with me jonathan capehart and peter baker and former executive director of the white house office of faith based and neighborhood partnerships joshua dubois. the president was treading very, very carefully in this press conference when asked about ferguson. at one point he said i have to be very careful about prejudging these events. it is a dynamic contrast between the hon echtty and emotional tener of his remarks after the trayvon martin trial and today where he was reserved and very careful to be i think in some ways protective of law enforcement in that press conference. how did you read it? >> i think that's right. the difference between this case and that case, that case had been adds jude indicated by that point. this case you don't have an investigation complete at this point. the justice department is involved. he does appoint the attorney general and in charge of the justice department to some extent and trying to be careful

to not put his foot firmly on any one side of the issue and careful to address the concerns both of the community that feels very disaffected by what's happened there to address there what he considers very legitimate grievances about the broader issues in their society as well as strongly saying that peaceful protests are not an excuse for others to take advantage of them to commit violence and criminality and it's a time to build, not tear down, listen not shout. he is sttrying to straddle a li to address a community that's torn apart right now. >> joshua, you understand the community outreach here and this is a community that is hurting. i wonder if you think the president's words were adequate given the hurt and frustration and the fact the majority of the comments were directed towards black men in the community and not at all towards the police department that some say have

had an unfair disproportionate and some ways perhaps unconstitutional response to this crisis. >> i agree the president's remarks were very balanced but i think something very important happened. the president of the united states acknowledged we have an unequal system of criminal justice in this country. that's a big deal, these patterns start early, we're locking up brown and black boys at rates unproportional, it's the president acknowledging that fact. he did speak to law enforcement, we have to get to structural issues -- >> let me interrupt you. that was in the context of systemic failure in the black community and he kept referring to his my brother's keeper nishty tif, it's about strengthening the black community to young black men are not victims of violence and can see brighter futures. i wonder whether there should have been stronger words directed to the law enforcement officers that killed michael

brown. >> yeah, i think the way the president directs his attention on law enforcement is to ensure there's a full and fair investigation. the reality is that he's sending the attorney general down there and starting a federal investigation. if he -- if it appears he's putting his thumb on the scale, that's going to delegitimatize the entire process here. that would be a problem for those seeking justice for michael brown. >> jonathan, you gave a forecast on the speech and thought the words would be limited. what's your assessment of the last 20 minutes? >> the president went little further than i thought he would. we cannot discount what the president said, what joshua just said and as peter acknowledged in his answer, the president is going to be very, very careful about what he says about this particular case and especially about law enforcement because we're at the beginning of the legal process here. and because he's the chief law enforcement officer of the united states, he cannot

possibly get involved in any kind of specific way in this specific case where it looks like he's putting his thumbs on the scale. it would be very detrimental to all of those people looking for justice in the killing of michael brown. that's why there's a difference between the strength and passion and the heartfelt nature of what the president said in that same room after the acquittal of george zimmerman and killing of trayvon martin. then you saw today. i belt you and guarantee you after we've gone through the entire process in this shooting and killing of michael brown, that we could possibly see a more heartfelt, more emphatic response from the president. but let's not get bogged down in showy grand shows of -- down with the people, that some people want the president to show. the big news out of that press conference for me and the

ferguson piece is that he's sending the attorney general down to ferguson, missouri, down to ferguson. that cannot be discounted. >> and peter, let's talk about that in the few seconds we have remaining, the fact that eric holder is going down to ferguson on wednesday would seem to be big news. eric holder is effectively the president's surrogate on civil rights issues. >> holder has been pressing the president to be more forthcoming on issues like racial profiling and sentencing disparity and been the main spokesman on issues like that where the president himself has been more cautious and sometimes disappointed. it's important that the attorney general is going there and intended to send a signal to a lot of the president's people that where he stands. >> jonathan, capehart thank you.

ed shultz picks up our coverage at the michael brown shooting next on msnbc. good evening, americans, welcome to the ed show live from new york. let's get to work. >> local ee leked officials called on me to put a curfew in place to guarantee peace. >> a group of protesters defying an overnight curfew. >> i don't believe that's fair. >> the missouri governor orders the national guard to ferguson. >> that's indicative it how we're being dealt with. >> they postponed the first day of school for a second time. >> after talking to eric holder, sending in 40 fbi acts. >> the unarmed teen shot at least six