back to you on this story for sure. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. good evening. >> good evening, ed. thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, a defining moment for our country. how do we as a nation look at nations around the world? how do we determine whether they are police states or whether they are fair to citizens? we judge them by how they hold those that are the officers of the state accountable. whether citizens are allowed to question and seek redress and find out if they are valid or if they are not. the michael brown case has brought it home to america. how do we deal with policing? in the last three weeks we have seen a woman pummelled unarmed on a freeway in los angeles.

we saw a man killed with an illegal choke hold by police in staten island. now michael brown. the world is watching us to see how we handle holding our police accountable. are we now in a country where you can't question police without being called names? we can't give up our right to raise questions. now to tonight's lead. michael brown's family is finally getting some answers about the young man's final moments. the family released the results of a private autopsy they commissioned today. just a short time ago president obama weighed in on the situation in ferguson, calling on the community to find some understanding. >> let me call once again for us to seek some understanding, rather than simply holler at each other.

let's seek to heal rather than to wound each other. as americans we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity laid bare by this moment. the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united american family. >> the nation needs to heal. but as we missouri forward there is still so much more we need to find out about the shooting of michael brown. today we heard from dr. michael baden, the former chief medical examiner for new york city who conducted the autopsy on behalf of michael brown's family. here's what he found. >> there are six bullets struck him. six bullets struck. two may have reentered. three bullets were recovered at the first autopsy. >> police officer darren wilson shot this young man at least six

times, including to the very top of his head. dr. baden said the autopsy showed the shots were fired some distance away. >> in this instance there is no gunshot residue on the skin surface. it could have been 30 feet away. would have been the same thing. >> we have so many questions about what led to the shoot ing. today a few more things became clear. the family believes this could lead to this officer's arrest. or he should be arrested, the family feels. they are not calling for a conviction. they are calling for an arrest based on probable cause. joining he now is leslie mcspadden, michael brown's

grandfather. thanks for being with us tonight. >> thanks, reverend al. always a pleasure. >> you know, this is such an emotional day with the release of the results of the autopsy. how does it feel to you as the grandfather getting that information? >> with me, it's vital. somewhere down the road we can find peace knowing that my grandson was shot six times, twice in the head and can the world, the country imagine that he screamed. i wish i could have been there to take some for him. >> what do you think of the fact that there hasn't been an arrest yet after the autopsy has come out? >> you know, it's 1,000% wrong. if you take the scenarios and turn them around, if i were to

go out there and brutally murder somebody and shoot them six times, just think would i be incarcerated? the answer is yes. >> do you have a message for those who are investigating this case? >> yes, i do. anyone of the investigators that's actually doing this case, one thing you need to remember. that's that this you're a grandfather. you may be a grandfather. if you do the right thing then justice will be coming for my fwra grandson. >> i want to play for you more of what the president said about his role here. here he was earlier today. >> it's hard for me to address a specific case. beyond making sure that it's

conducted in a way that's transparent, where there is accountability, where people can trust the process, hoping that as a consequence of a fair and just process you end up with a fair and just outcome. >> is it any comfort to you as the grandfather that the president of the united states is watching this case himself? >> yes, it is. it's very important. my president is the president of the whole free world. america is built on people coming together at times like this and now is the time for my president to step forward. also, reverend al, i want to say this to my president. i voted for you. >> thanks for being with us tonight. our prayers continue to be with

you and the family as we have talked to you and been there with you. just seeking justice. now let me bring in charlie dooley, the st. louis county executive. i want the thank you again for being here tonight. >> pleasure to be here. >> being the executive of the county, we heard from michael brown's grandfather. this family wants to know why hasn't there been an arrest. what can you tell them? >> well, again, i'm hopeful that the criminal investigation, that the fbi is doing at this time and eric holder coming in wednesday that will bring this to some kind of conclusion, that's my hope. i can't express the sadness about this situation, where we are as a country. this doesn't represent the st. louis metropolitan area. this is one area that impacts this entire country. >> now, dr. baden who did the

autopsy for the family talked today about how important it is to get information to the family. listen to this. >> the chief medical examiner of new york city for some 25 years. we had a number of these encounters. what we found in new york city was that the sooner the information goes out, the sooner the family is talked to, the family has a right to know how their loveded one died. this calms community and family concerns over cover-up or not getting told the truth. >> would the family have more confidence in the investigation if more information had been forthcoming? >> i agree. that's one of the missteps we had in the investigation. enough information was not provided to the family or to the public in an expeditious way.

that's called transparency. it's not been forthcoming. that's one of the major problems. as soon as we know something we should make that available to the family and the public. they have a right to know that. >> they have a medical examination, an autopsy from the medical examiner. should that be releaseded? why hasn't that been put out to the family? >> i agree it should be released. if there are private individuals saying something from an official point of view, we should be saying something as well, as much as we can. at least give what you know and what you don't know, say what you don't know. >> now, there's been a lot of talk today about the national guard coming in. could you explain to us what their role exactly is going to be now that they have been brought in to ferguson? >> it's my understanding the national guard has nothing to do with the security of the

ferguson area. they have respect for the command post itself. where the command individual and the media are. they are there to secure that activity. that's all they are here for. >> so they are only there for the command post area, not the general community. and you, again -- >> that's correct. >> you again as county executive do agree the county should release to the family their medical examination. the family has its own private one and the federal government is doing one. can you understand why the family and a lot of people this the community -- i heard it everywhere i went. i have been there twice this week. why they are so skeptical when you don't have autopsies released from the medical examiner. you don't have anything official, but you release a tape of michael brown shoplifting, allegedly, that had nothing to do with the killing but the things you have that have something to do with the killing you haven't released.

don't you understand how suspect that looks to a lot of people? >> i do understand. the more information we can provide the public the better off we will be. why that information wasn't provided i cannot answer. has nothing to do with my office. if it was up to me we would have provided that information. one of the issues in the community is bob mcculloch. the african-american community have no confidence in his commitment to justice in this community and this event. his past history has indicated he's not trustworthy going forward. >> wow. >> i believe he needs to step aside and let a special prosecutor either from the state or federal government but not his office should not be in charge of this prosecution. >> so you're saying, as the st. louis county executive that you agree that mr. mcculloch, the

st. louis county prosecutor should not handle this case. >> that's correct. i believe he should step aside and let a special prosecutor come in to review this case. i think some of his comments have been inappropriate. his past history has shown us that the african-american community do not trust his judgment for these type of cases. >> that's powerful. thank you, charlie dooley. we'll talk throughout the case. >> thank you. >> thank you for your time tonight. coming up, should there be an arrest? now that the autopsy is out, the key question is -- is there probable cause to arrest the officer that killed michael brown? plus, big news tonight. attorney general eric holder is going to ferguson. what will happen next with the investigation? we'll look at the evidence. what we know and how much more we don't know. it's all ahead. please stay with us.

>> so a community in ferguson that's rightly hurting, looking for answers. let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. let's seek to heal rather than wound each other. vo: this is t. the summer of this. the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. where memories will be forged into the sand. and then hung on a wall for years to come.

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the michael brown investigation has been lighting up the social media community all weekend. darryl says regarding this tragedy, i have decided to ignore the negativity of the sick few and only embrace the

positivity of the enlightened many. i like that, darrell. linda says simply, the truth will come out. coming up, should there be an arrest? first we want to know what you think. please join in the conversation on our facebook page or tweet us @politics nation. so factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria? even if you're healthy and active. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed! phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. ♪

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conducting the investigation. he'll receive an update from them on their progress. he'll meet with leaders in the community whose support is critical to bringing about peace and calm in ferguson. >> big news tonight from president obama. attorney general eric holder is headed to ferguson wednesday. this after the department of justice stepped up its investigation into michael brown's death over the weekend. ordering their own autopsy and sending some 40 fbi agents to ferguson to investigate the shooting. the attorney general's visit is good news for michael brown's family and those who have called for transparency in the investigation and have demanded to know is there enough evidence for probable cause to arrest officer darren wilson. for now that question is in the

hands of the man at the center of the investigation -- st. louis county prosecutor bob mcculloch. as the associated press reports there is mounting pressure for many him to step aside from some local residents and black st. louis area officials who believe he cannot be impartial. the associated press reports he could present evidence to a grand jury beginning wednesday. is there enough evidence for an arrest? and where does the investigation go from here? joining me thousand is missouri state senator jamilla nashid who wrote the prosecutor asking him to step down from the case last week. and anthony cook, a professor at georgetown law school. thank you both for being here. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> state senator, you don't have confidence in the local

prosecutor to do a fair investigation into michael brown's killing. i was just talking with the county executive who surprised me saying he doesn't have confidence. tell us why not. >> the community doesn't have confidence. i called on bob mcculloch to recuse himself, not because i don't like him. we have a history here in the st. louis area with him not being a friend to the accuser, the murderer. we had a situation that occurred ten years ago where you had two african-american men that was shot down 20 times -- shot 20 times while sitting in their car. and bob mcculloch came with a verdict that stated it was a justifiable homicide. those two guys were unarmed. we have a history with bob mcculloch.

we know he cannot be fair and impartial. we know at the end of the day he cannot be unbiased. his father was a police officer. his father was gunned down by an african-american man. he also has a serious history of siding with police officers. he said if he wouldn't be a police officer he would be an attorney. it's a strained relationship with the community. the community can't the trust him. that's why we are calling for him to take the high road. allow for the people to gain confidence in this investigation. because right now the people, they just don't have confidence that bob mcculloch will do the right hinge with the investigation. >> i have heard a lot of that. let me ask you another question. let me go to you on this, mr.

cook. today, the autopsy was released at a press conference by the independent pathologist and the attorneys for the family. we heard people this the community based on that question why officer wilson hasn't been arrested yet. listen to this. >> all of these gunshot wounds were survivable, except for the one on the top of the head that went through the brain. >> with that being said, and all of us here know what happened to michael, why hasn't the officer -- wilson been arrested? [ cheers and applause ] >> the outrage in the community is growing. is there enough evidence to arrest the officer on probable cause? >> i believe the outrage is

justified. mike brown was shot not one, two, four times, but six times. two times in the head. that's a fact. we also know that he was unarmed at the time. that's a fact. there was no evidence that's been presented yet of any kind of struggle or altercation. when i look at those facts i think there is probable cause to issue a warrant for arrest. it is reasonable to think this individual acted in a way that violates law. you could arrest him for reckless endangerment to life. you could arrest him for voluntary manslaughter. you could arrest him for murder in the second degree. i think all of those are

reasonable based on the facts before us now. >> senator, hearing that and hearing what's going on in the community including constituents in your district, is not that one of the underlying factors of a lot of remaining questions, tension, and distrust that there has not been on any grounds a move to arrest and prosecute this officer when clearly you have a man who's been killed. clearly he's the one who did it. clearly he was unarmed. there seems to be no reason that he's not facing a judge or someone to answer to. you don't need a conviction in order to make an arrest. you just need probable cause. then he has the right to a trial to defend himself and be innocent until proven guilty. >> that's correct. the community is outraged

because of the lack of transparency and the secrecy. they don't know why he was gunned down in the middle of the street? we are talking about the murder of a young innocent man who did nothing. he was unarmed. the only thing that he was accused of was walking in the middle of the streets, wanting to visit with his grandmother. he was shot down by the hands of one person that was supposed to protect and serve him. that's why people are angry. people are angry because they know that justice cannot be served with bob mcculloch taking the lead. that's why we have a petition and the petition is the petition for justice. we are asking people to sign that petition. we are looking to have 50,000 signatures so we can take those signatures to bob mcculloch and let him know that the public opinion is not in his favor when it comes to a fair investigation on behalf of the murder of

michael brown. >> state senator jamila nasheed and anthony cook, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> thanks for having me. let me go to chris hayes, my colleague who is on the phone from ferguson. chris? >> we are looking down west floreson. police have set up checkpoints north and south of us. just a few minutes ago, a big march came down ferguson street. it got to what's been the perimeter the last few nights. a place believed to be right by the mcdonald's. 15 cop cars went tearing towards it. a bunch of police got out of the cars. there were a bunch of protesters there. it looked like there might be a tense confrontation. police left those marchers. they let them come down. now the rules here today since this morning are basically you can walk, march.

you cannot stop here or congregate. there is now a march of people marching on the sidewalk. there is a fair amount of police presence and someone on a bullhorn instructing everyone they have to keep moving to stay there. it might be hard to cope them moving. people are now stopping and looking. a very tense situation. >> so they are actually preventing people from protesting there in ferguson? >> they are preventing people from stationary protesting. they are allowing mobile protesting. they are allowing you to walk. but they have been discouraging and outright banning people from just standing. you're seeing people -- you know, that's the police telling people to move. now you are seeing marchers under urging from their leaders to keep moving. they have announced the marches down to the q.t. and back. under the rules by the police on

the scene, ferguson police and state highway patrol. the situation that you can walk on west floreson. you can't stop. there are a lot fewer people here tonight. it's almost eerie. until the march came it was essentially just a ghost town. >> what is the mood of the people? it seems there is no anger, no threat. >> it's pretty chill. if you look down this is not people as far as one can tell, at least judging from the outside looking to start trouble. there are young children. i'm seeing a family with two kids including a young kid on dad's shoulder. there are people of all ages. this is a family theme. there are elders and young people as well. this is not folks who appear to be trying to provoke confrontation. they are walking down the street

now. they have been disbursed in a way. there was a tight orderly line of them as they approached that kind of perimeter area right there at the mcdonald's. as you can see people are walking. they are moving along which is the direction they have been given by local law enforcement. >> so they can walk. they just can't stand still and protest. this is very different in a democratic state. chris hayes, thank you for your reporting. please let us though if there are updates. we'll be right back. ...so you say men are superior drivers?

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nine days after the deadly shooting of michael brown, it comes down to the evidence. today, attorneys for brown's family said the private autopsy that the brown family commissioned is in line with eyewitness accounts of multiple shots. and hands in the air. it's what witness tiffany mitchell said on this network. >> after his body jerked he turned, faced him and put his hands up. that's when the police continued to shoot until he went down. >> hands up and the police continued to shoot. it's the same thing that eyewitness krenshaw said. >> he put his arms up to let them know he was compliant and unarmed. they shot him twice more. he fell to the ground and died. >> here is what dorian johnson, a friend of michael brown's who was with him during the shooting, what he told me on

"politics nation" last week. >> stopped to turn around with his hands in the air. started to tell the officer he was unarmed and he was not -- before he could get his last words out the officer fired several more shots and my friend went down in the fatal position. >> turn around with his hands in the air. we still don't have a complete picture of what happened that tragic day. two more autopsies are being conducted. and the police reports haven't been released. new information is starting to fill in the blanks. joining me now are prosecutor and legal analyst paul henderson and jim cavanaugh, msnbc analyst and retired atf agent. thank you both for joining me. >> thanks for having us. >> thanks, reverend al. >> paul, how critical is the autopsy being released today? >> well, the autopsy that's here today is helpful but not

conclusive. obviously any prosecutor are wants all of the evidence from the full investigation. but what's important to note from this autopsy is that it corroborates the narrative and doesn't rule out the stories that have been heard on this show. that's important. that's what people are paying attention to. so it's actually helpful. >> jim, how striking do you find the new autopsy report? do you find it in line with the witness's accounts as paul just said? >> reverend al, in every regard when you go through the witnesses step by step and you look at dr. baden analysis. i have met dr. bade n and been around him. i have been at his homicide seminars. i know him. you know, it's very good. consistent with the three witnesses you just showed. there is nothing really inconsistent. one of the shots could have been from the back. one at the police cruiser. those would be in the arm. and then as ms. crenshaw said

and dorian said and tiffany said when he turned with his hands up as compliant, nobody said he turned and charged the officer. he turned and crouched. he turned and ran toward the officer which some people are alleging. they all said he turned with his hands up and he was compliant. he's wounded at least two more times in the arm. and a shot to the top of the head or probably the shot to the eye first just above the eyebrow. then to the top of the apex of the headle. that would drop you in your tracks. those are fatal wounds. this is clearly excessive force. a warrant could be and should be obtained in my view rs within hours. the delay is unnecessary. >> you're saying, jim, that a warrant could be gotten on this. do you agree with that, paul? >> i think you could get a warrant for the arrest.

it's the ultimate prosecution that really matters. you know, really as a prosecutor i know any good prosecutor will want to have all of the evidence before they make a decision. you don't want to rush and make an arrest before you have all of the information although the information that's coming out and, you know, as we were talking about before, the order of those shots is going to be very helpful to know. we don't yet have the full autopsy that may answer some of the questions as to what order those shots may have come in in this case. >> is that what you want to know as a prosecutor -- the order of the shots? tell me what you would want to know as a prosecutor to proceed. >> i would want to know that. i would want the narratives from any eyewitnesses we have. i would also want to have the full forensics, full toxicology report, all of the information before i made a decisionment remember, there is a different standard between an arrest and prosecution. but as the prosecutor i would want to evaluate all of that information. that would be different from the

standard that could be used to make an arrest of this officer if, in fact, that's what's going to happen coming soon. it doesn't necessarily relieve him of the liability, the information coming out. in fact, it actually is more consistent with what the witnesses have told you right here on this show over the past few weeks. >> jim, as a law enforcement person, what would you want to know? what would you be looking for answers to? >> well, i don't disagree that you want as much evidence as you can get. you have to present proof beyond a reasonable doubt before a jury to get a conviction. i have worked with prosecutors, state and federal, for almost four decades. i know what they need. they know what they need. we all want it all. often times we make arrests based on probable cause. this far exceeds the standard for that. far exceeds the standard for probable cause. an arrest could be made. the investigation doesn't end. it still goes to a grand jury. there is still a process, an

investigative process. interviews don't have to end. investigative grand jury subpoenas end in indictment. this isn't a case that requires massive investigative subpoenas. there are not computer records, phone records and all that to be obtained. yes, you want to examine the witness statements. they should have the witness statements. the department of justice has them. the prosecutor has them. this is a matter of making a decision and doing the right thing at the right moment. this is a time leadership needs to come in. reverend al, i go back to the '60s. i call it the bobby kennedy moment. this is a time when bobby kennedy called floyd mann of the highway patrol in alabama and said, will you protect the freedom riders? if a warrant is obtained that doesn't preclude the things our guest is saying. he understands what i'm saying as well. >> let me ask you this, paul, as a prosecutor. >> yeah. >> a lot of what i have heard

around ferguson and st. louis county is the distrust is because there is so much secrecy. nothing put in front of the public, not even to the family. how do you feel about that as a prosecutor, that it seems like transparency is not there at all? >> i feel like there are a number of issues that buy into the lack of transparency. because there aren't conversations coming from law enforcement. one of the things that actually makes he hr optimistic and hopeful about the situation is that the federal government has stepped in and is conducting their own investigation as to what they think should happen in this case and they are reviewing all of the facts and evidence in this case. it certainly doesn't help that in light of all of the process going through we have this whole process where people who are peacefully protesting are being met with a militarized police force that's making them very

are uncomfortable. that does not help in these conversation where a legal standard is being reviewed and they are interpreting whether or not to both make an arrest and then whether or not a subsequent prosecution is going to take place with this officer, although it's look more likely, as we hear more and more evidence. people are really concerned about that. the story and the narrative that's being put out there is making this officer not look like he conducted himself very fairly with michael brown. that's a problem. >> we have to leave it there, paul. thank you, paul henderson and jim californvanaugh, for your t tonight. >> thank you for having us. coming up, the anger in ferguson, missouri, didn't happen overnight. how can the healing begin? and president obama gets personal talking about young black men and the justice system. stay with us. >> i feel every day for my son.

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so how did we get here? how did michael brown go from walking in the street to lying dead on the ground? the anger we are searing isn't a new thing. this didn't just happen overnight. to understand where it's coming from, you just have to look at some numbers. 63% of ferguson's population is black. yet blacks are disproportionately targeted by police. they account for 86% of police stops, 92 the% of police searches and nearly 93% of arrests. fergie son is far from are the only american city where we are seeing this kind of injustice. in new york city, police placed a man in a choke hold, killing him for peddling loose cigarettes. last month in california a highway patrol officer repeatedly punched an unarmed and homeless woman in the face. this isn't just about one case

of questionable behavior by a single officer. this is about a systemic and common problem in the american justice system. this is about how the state interacts with the citizens. joining me now is missouri state representative courtney alan curtis. his district includes about 60% of the town of ferguson. representative curtis, first of all, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> this isn't a new problem. there is a frustration in ferguson, isn't there? >> there is. it's actually county wide frustration. >> tell us what the root of the frustration is and why it has been allowed to linger so long. >> outside of this situation, there is possibly a general overpolicing or aggressive arrest and ticketing within the county in general because we have been hit hard by the

recession and such. cities are turning to aggressive ticketing and speed cameras and whatnot to boost revenues. that's a general frustration of many people outside of the unaddressed issues of the minority community as a whole, even when you look at things such as the school system. there is a real frustration out there. this is just a culmination of all of it. >> i want to play some sound from people p of ferguson. talking about the police in their community. listen to this, state rep. >> police stop to degrade and humiliate. that's what the charge is. not to help, protect and serve. my grandson has been a victim of the ferguson police. >> i can't drive down the street without them this close. they feel like they can get away with it. to me they are getting away with it. >> for the longest time the community has been overpoliced. statistics don't lie. you are targeting a population

of people who don't have anything to hide. we are regular working citizens like anybody else. >> this isn't just about numbers. this is about real people facing real injustices every day. >> that's true. we do face a number of injustices. i was stopped two weeks ago because of a possible taillight not working. then i was told the taillight was on and i was let go. these type of practices take place. it only leads to situations like this. outside of this we had a di vie sieve race which mr. mcculloch supported someone against the incumbent county executive which further raised tensions within the area. >> now talking about the recent race, part of the problem this the small community is not accurately reflected by the city government. not only is the police chief

white and the mayor, the city council is just 16% african-american. the police department just 6%. the school board, 0% -- not a single person on the school board is black. yet 80% of the students are black. how can this city claim to represent its citizens with these kind of numbers? >> there are other efforts going on. it's just been a challenge for other individuals in ferguson to reach out to the people that don't feel connected. there are efforts under way now to make more of an effort. but that's a little bit too late. we haven't had that particularly. these are issues county-wide because we have such a large county. it encompasses a lot of individuals. the minority percentage of that is pretty low. and the voter participation is low as well. >> missouri state rep courtney alan curtis, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, from president

obama to the protest around the country, why the shooting of michael brown is a defining moment for america. what if there was a credit card where the reward was that new car smell and the freedom of the open road? a card that gave you that "i'm 16 and just got my first car" feeling. presenting the buypower card from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com

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>> in too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. in too many communities, too many young men of color are left behind and seen only as objects of fear. >> more on that and how we can come together to change that next. throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov

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>> we are not anti-police. we don't think all police are bad. we are not anti-sitting down and solving the problem but there is a difference between calling for peace and calling for quiet. peace means that we have equal protection under the law. quiet means just shut up in silence. we are not going to shut up. we're going to come together and have a real peace in this country. >> just silencing voices that raise questions is not going to lead to peace. we'll only be here again. we need to really deal with the excesses on both sides. we need to really deal with transparency. yes, the looting is wrong. inexcusable.

so is it inexcusable. the data says we don't have equal protection under the law. so is it inexcusable if some police -- not all, not even most -- feel they are above being questioned. we must really have peace and come together to show the world who we are. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. calling in the guard. this is "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, all roads lead to ferguson. the missouri national guard is there. so is the group black lawyers for justice, and the nation of islam. attorney general eric holder is headed there wednesday. what will come of this national collision of emotion and demand? something better? a better chance at crimina