thank you very much for joining me tonight. our coverage continues now with chris hayes, who remains live in ferguson. more trouble. this is "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. before going to ferguson, missouri, tonight i'm obliged to deliver tragic news from abroad. tonight isis forces in syria and iraq released a video which it said shows james wright foley, an american journalist being beheaded. in the video, isis threatens the life of another captured american if president obama doesn't stop airstrikes in iraq. mr. foley was kidnapped at gun point on thanksgiving day 2012. he had not been heard from during his time in captivity. he traveled extensively in the middle east and north africa. he reported about conflicts in

iraq, afghanistan and libya where he was once held captive for 44 days. following that captivity in libya, foley said i believe that front line journalism is important. now to the tragic events going on now in the american heartland. we have pictures from ferguson from last night when violence erupted tenfold. what police call a criminal element is dominating the streets that were once filled with peaceful protesters. today there's been another deadly confrontation with police. this afternoon st. louis police were involved in a fatal shooting three miles away from ferguson and the protests there. according to the police, the suspect, a 23-year-old black male brandished a knife and advanced on officers saying, shoot me now. the police opened fire when the suspect ignored orders to stop and drop his weapon. tonight we return to ferguson itself where police are clashing with what they are calling a criminal element, as i said.

it's overwhelmed the city. these are some of the sights and sounds of last night's chaos. >> don't shoot. >> hands up. >> don't shoot. >> hands up. >> if you are not credentialed media, you need to disburse immediately. or you will be subject to arrest. do it now. >> you need to stand back or you will be subject to arrest. >> you want to make sure it gets inside your eyes. >> captain ron johnson told nbc's craig melvin police faced heavy gunfire last night from people hiding in bushes. he also said instigators were baiting police by yelling things like red rover, send your best

cop over. four officers were injured. two people were shot, not by police. s.w.a.t. teams were called to evacuate one of the victims. guns were confiscated. 78 people were arrested according to the arrest list. the list also included people from california, chicago, and new york. members of the media including craig melvin and chris hayes were pelted by rocks on live television. authorities are bracing for more violence. area schools have been closed for the week. police are urging protesters to stay home after dark. attorney general eric holder arrives in ferguson tomorrow. and the hill newspaper is reporting white house officials aren't ruling out a presidential visit as well to ferguson. nbc's craig melvin joins us thousand from ferguson. i have been watching your reporting all day including the very impressive ride with captain johnson.

tell us how it seems to be heading on this. it seems to be escalating each night. >> compared to last night, the crowd now considerably smaller last night. calmer. more organized. at one point we saw three or four very large groups marching together, but marching separately. we have seen for the most part one group marching together. chanting. very peaceful so far. as you indicated, it's been peaceful until the sun goes down. captain johnson saying that today one of the things they were really encouraging folks to do, stay at home at night. he asked them to do it so it's easier for law enforcement to differentiate between the peaceful protesters and the so-called criminal element. that's the language law enforcement continues to use here. his claim was -- what he said

was every night they see the peaceful protesters, folks you can see now live. they see the groups. those folks tend to go home. then a new group comes out at night. a larger group comes out at night. he made an interesting point, chris matthews. i thought about this yesterday. one of the big problems, the guys who were marching were wearing masks, ban danas. they can't stop you but it raises an important question. why do you need to protest wearing a mask? why are you hiding your face on the street if you are just peaceably assembling. as i talk, this is the protest i was just talking about. this is organized. a lot more organized. in two, three hours it remains

to be seen what it will look like. another interesting thing we covered. >> could you see the people throwing rocks at you and chris hayes last night? >> they taunted us for a bit first. chris, you know, they're young guys. they were angry at law enforcement. they were shouting things at law enforcement first. then they realized that we were on television live. all of the sudden they became angry with the media. tell the true story. tell the real story. we said, that's what we're here doing. often times in situations like this we get lumped if together. all journalists, all media is the same, we're to blame as well. captain johnson as well. i took him to task on it last night and this morning. he said, you know, you guys really at times are making the situation worse.

you're exacerbating the situation. i said, captain johnson, what do you mean? some of the young guys, all they want is to be put on television, be seen, this national platform. you stick cameras in their faces. i said, we are up against the same thing you are up against. it's difficult for us to discern who is a peaceful protester as you have labeled them and who is perhaps not a peaceful protester. he said tonight they are going to be a little stricter as well with some of the media, some of the journalists. it are remains to be seen what he haent by that. >> i would love your thoughts about captain johnson. what an impressive guy he is. thank you. craig melvin. >> you have to wonder if he'll run for office. >> he's the kind of leader we need sometimes, certainly now. thank you. val demmings from florida. let me go to val. what do you make of that -- get

the media cameras? reminds me of reading "bonnfire of the vanities." they want the trucks. it's an attractive thing to get on national television if you are voiceless 365 days a year and this is your chance to make a voice. >> i think captain johnson is absolutely right. he's right to refer to it as a criminal element. they seize an opportunity in a community vulnerable to wreak havoc. they are criminals not looking for justice. they are looking for opportunity. sometimes when the situation is ongoing as it is in ferguson, the media is sometimes as we say in the way. we also understand that the public deserves to have a right to have the story told, to hear what's going on. you just have to make accommodations.

one of the best things that could have happened to ferguson is have captain johnson. he gets an a plus in community oriented policing. if ferguson had somebody like him in the beginning who is not afraid of people in the community but someone who celebrates diversity, the police department may have looked different. this situation may not have occurred in the first place. the immediate i can't is part of the community as well. you have to make it work. >> let me go to mark about police officers. in certain communities i think the irish-american community is like being firefighters. they join police forces generation after generation. what could encourage police forces in ferguson where you have a large minority community in the area. they're white guys. >> one thing is a level playing field for people who are interested in pursuing a career in law enforcement.

let's be clear about something. people respond based on information they have seen on careers. if they have a negative experience it tends to push them away from exploring that as a possibility of employment in the future. the problem that municipalities, other agencies are having in finding qualified black candidates. it really is because of the situations that they themselves created. >> let me ask you this. in a black community in a place like ferguson, could you address that? you have seen it as a turn coat if you become a police officer. how bad is it to take a position like this where you are telling people what to do on the street. >> i think too often people assume that as a police officer -- and i'm speaking from practical experience. as a police officer, the black community will see you as a turn coat. that's never been my experience. you have certain individual who is have a negative impression of

police. they will see you as a turn coat or negative to the community. overwhelmingly, be aware black folks love the police, support the police, love law and order. there is not this innate dislike or distrust of police in it from birth. >> let me go back to val on the question. how do we improve the diversity of the police force. one of the knocks in ferguson is though there was a change in population democrat graphically there hasn't been a change in the police force. >> it's difficult to believe they can have a career when they don't see many people in their hometown doing that career. when i became a police officer in 1984 i didn't walk into the orlando police department looking for a job. the orlando police department came looking for me. my father wasn't a police officer. my grandfatherer wasn't a police officer like other caucasian brothers and sisters have. the police department came

looking for me. i think ferguson could benefit from getting some of the community leaders and going out in the communities and really actively recruiting african-american law enforcement officers. >> thank you so much. yes, mark? >> i was going to say that the issues going on in ferguson would not be lessened if you had more black police officers. there are systemic issues, historical issues occurring in the community. that's the problem there. the answer, the panacea isn't necessarily to increase black police forces in the community. it's to deal with the systemic problem. >> i don't think it could hurt. i know the problems are complicated. we'll get to all aspects. economics is at the heart of all this stuff. that sounds mar,ists but jobs and economics are the key to this american life we like to lead. thanks for joining us. coming up, the investigation

itself. attorney general eric holder heads to ferguson tomorrow morning, the same day a grand jury may begin hearing evidence in the case. plus the shooting death of michael brown shed light on the plight of young african-american men in this country. tonight we'll talk to joshua dubois of my brother's keeper, the group president obama started to give kids across the country a better shot at success. covering the chaos we'll talk to two reporters about the dangers they are facing personally on the streets of ferguson after dark including tonight. finally, let me finish with the heart of this whole thing in ferguson. this is "hardball," the place for politics. she's still the one for you. and cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. we continue to watch what's happening right now on the streets of ferguson, missouri. we have a breaking political story. texas governor rick perry has turned himself in after his indictment on two counts of alleged abuse of power. charges he says are without merit. he entered the courthouse in the last hour. he was booked and had his mug

shot taken. as he entered the courthouse the governor had this to say. >> i'm going to fight this injustice with every fiber of my being and we will prevail. [ cheers and applause ] and we'll prevail because we are standing for the rule of law. >> you heard it there. perry isn't letting the questionable charge slow him down. he'll visit new hampshire this weekend. we'll be right back.

what will bring peace to the streets of ferguson. >> justice. justice will bring peace, i believe. >> only if that results in the arrest or charges against officer wilson? is that what it's going to take? >> yes.

him being arrested, charged being filed and a prosecution. him being held accountable for what he did. >> that was a call for justice from the mother of michael brown this morning. leslie mcspadden says the violence in the streets of ferguson needs to stop. meanwhile the district attorney's office said a missouri grand jury will begin evidence in the case starting tomorrow. tomorrow the grand jury sits. prosecutors cautioned it may take months to decide whether there is a basis for charging officer darren wilson. in a dramatic move attorney general eric holder said he'll be in ferguson tomorrow to meet with fbi agents investigating the shooting as a potential civil rights matter. nbc news learned the federal autopsy has been completed as well. the third autopsy conducted on the body of makele brown. the washington post said two unnamed sources familiar with the investigation who said the state's autopsy showed michael brown had marijuana in his

system. nbc news has not verified the information. in fact, that disclosure outraged critics of the police. kendall coffee is a former prosecutor. jonathan capehart is an opinion writer the for the washington post and an msnbc contributor. kendall, what basis or what is the threshold that a prosecutor and d.a. needs to call a grand jury? is there one beyond his own belief that the matter deserves looking at? >> we are supposed to have some pred indication, some information. they have plenty of discretion in this. as you know, the fact that they are convening a grand jury is far from an indication that charges will be brought. it is in an investigative stage. once the grand jury process begins it essentially disappears under a curtain of secrecy. it could be harder than ever to get information from the inside of the investigation.

on the state and local side is what we may be living with could be selective leaks which doesn't necessarily add to public confidence. >> why does the d.a. resort to a grand jury. why don't they decide whether they have a case to make and not lay it on somebody else or a group of citizens who may not be familiar with the law. why doesn't he make the decision and have the guts to decide whether the officer should walk or face trial. >> as you recall that's what angela cory did. the especially prosecutor appointed in the case of george zimmerman. she said no grand jury. the office will make the call. in missouri the district attorney could do the same thing. there are procedural benefits to using a grand juriment you can get witnesses in there under threat of perjury to tell their side of the story. >> along with what the procedural benefits can be, you have the concern about secrecy from the public standpoint. at the end of the day there is

perhaps less accountability when a district attorney can say this is what the grand jury did. let the grand jury's voice be heard. i didn't make the final decision. >> here we go with the grand jury which we know will deal what the prosecuting attorney tells them to do. in the end the prosecutor is deciding what to do with the cover of a group of citizens, a grand jury go with them. >> right. the problem from the beginning has been kendall is talking about the veil of secrecy that will depend upon a grand jury proceeding. there's been a veil of secrecy already in this case. the st. louis county police department didn't release information. when they did it was information to besmirch the character -- >> or defend the police officer. they have never put out, as you say, a clear narrative of what they believe happened. >> right. >> we can think of it at least. >> you know, the narrative i believe exists.

in that police report on the theft of the convenience store the officer who wrote up the report said he was able to corroborate that michael brown was the same person from two detailed reports. one from the ferguson police department, one from the st. louis county police department. we should have -- the public should have ferguson police report 2014 12391 and st. louis county report 2014-43984. those are two reports we don't have in addition the first autopsy on michael brown. toxicology report on michael brown or toxicology report on officer darren wilson. >> let me go back to kendall. you know this. prosecutors work with police hand in glove. that's how you bring prosecutions. use police to get the information and beginning the case, make a decision. would they be the most likely people to sympathize with the officer in this case to see the

fear he might have had. under oath he'll say he had fear and the decision is being proportionate. doesn't he have his best chance with a prosecutor? >> with a state and local prosecutor, absolutely. this district attorney had immediate family members. his late father was killed in the line of duty and an uncle who were police officers. they are very, very close. they are going to empathize with the position of the police officer. by the way, this officer is going to become a cause. not just for the community. the police and law enforcement community in st. louis, but around the country. police are going to rally and support officer darren wilson. >> explain why. >> they can see themselves walking -- so many police officers are skeptical about politics when politicians get involved. they are going to see officer wilson as a victim of politics if he's prosecuted. and they see themselves walking in his shoes or boots in the same kind of dangers, the same

kind of quick decisions. very, very hard for a local prosecutor to want to make a prosecution here when there is so much police support presently and more to come for this police officer from the police community. >> the mother of the deceased, michael brown's mother is calling for justice meaning she's calling basically for action against the officer. >> mm-hmm. >> either arrest, maybe she wants conviction t. same thing with the trayvon martin case. >> right. >> you get to a point and it escalates in terms of what people want to see. justice is defined differently by the two sides system in the trayvon martin case, it became a big national cause. an unarmed teenaged kid was killed by a man who -- >> who had no right to have a gun pointing at that guy. >> and who had not been arrested the for 44 days. in this case you have what leslie mcspadden, michael brown's mother wants is for officer wilson to be held accountable somehow.

i think in some way at a minimum people need to see darren wilson either walking into a court of law, showing up at the grand jury proceeding so they see he's not just in hiding. >> well said. this death wasn't dismissed but will bother people is why the body lay there for five hours. >> right. >> it shows disregard for a human being. thank you, kendall and jonathan capehart. coming up, chris hayes joins us with the latest from ferguson. he was certainly in the action last night. i didn't want to be where he was, getting hit with rocks. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." my colleague msnbc's chris hayes continues to cover the protests in ferguson. he joins us now live. you have been in enemy fire, faced not just the lions but the rock throwers. what's your plan tonight? >> right now things seem calmer.

of course things have always seemed calm during daylight hours. the one difference i would say tonight from last night, at this hour last night you had a promenade happening. there were several hundred marchers in a circle told to keep going. now the street s are clear. there are people congregating in the parking lots. it's become such a different story after dark. i spent today walking around, talking to people. i happened upon a conversation i thought was interesting. it was three african-american leaders talking with the mayor of ferguson. a guy named james knowles the third. he makes 300 bucks a month. not like it's his full-time job. he was talking about plans to figure out alternatives to this cycle of escalation that we have seen now basically nine nights in a row with only a few different pauses. >> what don't we see on television that you can sense there?

is there part of the story missing that the television camera doesn't pick up? >> yeah, a few things. one is just -- you know, all the attention is on these few blocks of fergie son. there are people basically throughout north county that feel the same way but also living their lives. there is a sense of disruption that's intense. you can walk a few blocks. you're just in single-family homes with backyards and people barbecuing and something looking like author mall life is happen ing. not that far from here. the other thing that's so palpable here is anger. people are talking about whether the media, the role the media plays and the thing i keep saying to people is the protests of mike brown's death started while mike brown was laying on the street a few blocks from where i am now. i talked to a barbershop owner yesterday who said word got to them right after he was shot. within 30 minutes everyone left

to go down there. there were people in the moment mike brown was on the ground. police were calling for backup because there were people there screaming with anger. it hasn't gone anywhere. it hasn't gotten anywhere to go. people feel the situation is basically the same as it was an hour into mike brown being shot. >> what do you think of the arrival of eric holder will mean? >> i think holder will be helpful. there is a real wide chasm. almost everyone i have talked to is skeptical of local authorities, local prosecutor. really sees the department of justice as a backstop that they can trust. the department of justice, the fbi. they don't trust the feds. eric holder coming is significant. it will reassure people.

he broet wroet an open letter to the citizens of ferguson. that's a positive step. people feel there is a backstop. there is a sense of impudence here with the way north county works that feeling like there is somebody who had their back at the highest level of law enforcement, the attorney general, the highest law enforcement official in the country is soothing people. at the same time, you know, i don't know how this dissipates before charges are brought. whether charges should be brought as a legal matter is distinct from what the community i have talked to here wants to see happen. they are unanimous in wanting to see charges brought and don't feel -- as long as charges aren't brought will continue to feel jut isn't being done. >> fortunately with all seriousness, the mass of people don't make decisions about criminal justice in certain cases. it's up to the people with moral authority.

i hope eric holder will lend this whole situation that you're in moral authority because it's clearly what you say people want to seement even if they disagree with the sense he was there fairly and honestly looking at the reality of the case. he can't reset the clock on the way things have been for years and decades. he can deal with the facts of one case. he can't make people happy with the judgment. he can only give them an honest one. chris, thank you for being out there. take care. >> thank you. >> up next, michael brown's shooting. his death has renews calls to do more to help young men of color in this country, obviously. president obama made it a priority. we are going to talk about what needs to be done to make sure the context here perhaps can change. that's coming up next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. it's one of the fastest growing crimes in america. there's a new victim of identity theft

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in too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. in too many communities, too many young men of color are left behind and seen as objects of fear. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama addressing the realities faced by young african-american men in this country, not just in ferguson. as he spoke about the situation in ferguson. today, washington post columnist eugene robinson amplified that sentiment with a calm on the state of african-american men in america. it reads in part the fire this time is about invisibility. we expect the police to keep unemployed poorly educated african-american men out of sight and out of mind.

when they suddenly take center stage, illuminated by the flash and flicker of molotov cocktails, we feign surprise. they are invisible but in ferguson and other pockets across the country millions grow up knowing the deck is stacked against them. the unrest in ferguson, missouri, is bringing into focus again the racial tensions that simmer in this country. joining me now is joshua dubois, president obama's spiritual adviser this his first term. sits on the advisory board of my brother's keeper to address the opportunity gaps by young men of color. also michael steele, my friend, former chairman of the republican national committee. the only chairman of the republican national committee i have as a friend. we don't have much time tonight. we're doing a lot. take a couple of minutes. then michael's thoughts and feelings. >> there is something despab stabilizing about being an african-american in this country

now. particularly being a black man knowing there is something intrinsic about who you are that makes people fear you, have malice toward you. maybe if the situation is in the wrong place, kill you. we are thinking of jordan davis, eric garner going back to emmitt till. the names and faces are running through our heads. we are realizing maybe we don't matter. maybe our lives don't matter. that makes people angry, fearful. it produce it is rage you are seeing now in ferguson. that's not justifying the rage. we have to understand where it comes from. black people are wondering, do our lives matter to oh this country? >> that's absolutely right. a lot of it hases to do with the fact that there is an attitude that's pervasive that we did the 1960s thing. we did the civil rights thing. we have marched, protested, passed laws. we have never dealt with the systemic root of racism. and the relationship, the pure

unadulterated relationship between white folks and black folks. why do they look at young black men in particular suspicious ly. why do black people feel invisible to the rest of america when the legacy and the story has been to build america. the examples we see of violence perpetrated by police or individuals in the case of trayvon martin is a reflection of us in a way that we haven't dealt with. loot of the systemic issues on race. we can talk immigration all day long. we can talk about what to do with this group and that group. at the end of the day it boils down to how white folks feel about black folks and how black folks react to that. >> what do you want white folks to do? it's time for bluntness. >> let's be honest about what we are dealing with here. be honest about the tension we all feel at times. just call it what it isment then

let's have are the national conversation. i'm not one of these folks who says to put it on the president's back, have him weigh in and give us moral authority here. this is community by community, individual by individual. the president can lend his voice as he's done at times. other leaders around the country can do the same. it's really communities like ferguson coming to grips with the reality that lives next door to them. >> i would say two things. one, push for specific policy changes that can help men and boys in these circumstances. changes to the way we operate the criminal justice system, the way we support this demographic. talk to black folks in your community that you know. ask folks what it feels like to process these thoughts. >> he looks in the neighborhood. he's never been out of the neighborhood. may never get out. he thinks, where am i going in this world? what do you say when the answer is there isn't a good industrial

job like there was for white generations before. there isn't a job to take the out of high school. >> i will say to him tap into your inherent creativity and strengths. he may be a poet and ek press it in terms of rap music. he's a brilliant creative type. >> where are's the money? >>he can move into music production. he may be an entrepreneur in a lot of ways. he can start a small business. he may be good with numbers. he can move into coding like the yes we code campaign. there are ways to channel the inherent talents of young men and boys. >> that's subjective. i want to get back to the issues we fight about. unless i have a national jobs program because we can't reindustrialize the country unless there are big decisions about bridges and highways. we'll spend money in capital funding and get people back to work. it isn't going to change. it's not going to happen. >> you're right. the private sector will be a player.

it has invested in places like harlem as we have seen. they have invested on u street in d.c. look how that corridor has taken off. it's gentry identified. as the money comes in, it pushes the established community out. so the reality for the young black male you're talking about is there is no upward mobility. i get pushed out of my community because no one sees me as vested or willing to invest in me in this community. that's a big part of the discussion. >> i don't think the future is with curfews and laws. it's got to be with opportunity. >> internships. >> it sounds marxist, but it's economic. it's jobs. unless a kid has a job in his future he will figure out something to do and it probably won't be poetry. it would be great if it was. and we always need good music. thank you, sir.

up next, back to ferguson to talk to two reporters about the dangers they are facing as they do their jobs covering the case. one says it is more violent than anything she's covered anywhere. this is "hardball," the place for politics. yeah! that little guy cleans, brightens and fights stains. so now i can focus on more pressing matters. wow! isn't it beautiful? your sweet peppers aren't next to your hot peppers. [ gasps ] [ sarah ] that's my tide. what's yours?

as we continue to monitor what's happening out there in ferguson, on the streets out there in missouri there is a big development in another case where an african-american man died while in police custody. the district attorney in

richmond new york, staten island, announced today he'll present evidence to a grand jury in the eric garner case. he's the african-american man who died last month after he was apparently placed in a choke hold by a police officer. we'll be right back after this.

we are back. the reporters covering the situation in ferguson are learning the only thing to expect when covering riots are the unexpected.

as paul farri wrote today the intensity of the situation is illustrated by the things reporters carry. not just notebooks and cameras but flak jackets, gas masks. other news organizations outfitted their employees with gas masks purchased at a chain hardware storement post photographers had an accessory familiar with war correspondents, a blue bulletproof vest emblazoned with the word "press." we turn to tremaine lee and amy k. nelson. we have two views out there. tremaine, give me a sense of the physical vulnerability there. do you feel endangered that you may have to wear a flak jacket tonight? >> no, no. i have never felt in danger. it's more a feeling that you can't expect what will happen next. there were a few moments when you get into the deeper hours of

the night where the bulk of protesters have long since gone and you are left with the concentrated group who may not be there. those are the moments that put you on edge. never fear. i have never feared for my life. just concerned you don't know what will happen. >> amy, your thinking? your feeling? >> it's the unpredictability. you could see where it's going. i don't have any protective gear. i'm not wearing anything out there. if there is gun fire and bullets flying that's the only thing where i'm trying to at least find out routes, trying to put myself in the best position possible not to get shot. again, it's putting all the stuff to chance a little bit. >> would you rather have more freedom of movement or more security personally if you had the trade it off now? it's for tonight. >> free dom of movement, every time. >> you're willing to take risks? >> yeah.

happening, we can't tell the stories we're supposed to tell. they say it's for our safety. i respect that to a degree. at the same time, it should in the end be our decision what kind of risks we personally want to take. >> you often, on one far end of the block and hear bangs and see smoke unfurling from the other end of the street. they're yelling at you, barking at you if you take a step in the street. that's kind of a problem. >> we're looking at the live pictures right now. trymaine, you first, then amy. give me a sense of what you think will come tonight. same question i asked chris hayes, what aren't we seeing with the pictures we're all getting on television? is there more of a story personally, anthropologically, sociologically, is there something more you can tell us about the community out there? >> i think we're on day 11 right now. one thing that's taken me, the protesters have been emboldened.

mind you, they've been tear gassed every single night, been barked at by police officers. the military-like police, came out with their s.w.a.t. team and armor. life here is getting difficult. they're blocking off the roads. there are checkpoints. though the crowd is smaller now, they're emboldened and loud and still marching. that's what the takeaway of the day is with the developments in the case and the step by step we're going to be following closely that the people are still out here, still chanting and still pushing. >> this is a blanket thing, but something i want to reiterate. the people here are amazing people and good people and very welcoming to all of us. and the only other thing i'd mention about tonight, chris, is that the one thing i haven't seen as much about, but i think is growing, is that, yes, there's a small sect of people who are here to purposefully cause mayhem and chaos and attack the police, and each day i've seen that group, that small group grow a little bit bigger. that's something to keep an eye

on. it seems that they are emboldened, too, in a different sort of way and they're here for very specific purpose. so whether or not that will actually translate, again, to violence tonight, obviously we hope not, but it has so far the past i guess four straight nights. >> trymaine, it seems like they're a dynamic there. my limited experience in the anti-war movement in the 6 '60s was you get excited when you're in one of those situations like the march on the pentagon and do get defiant. when the other side puts up a show of force, you respond. i wonder how that's going to go tonight as it escalates again. >> oh, oh, certainly. just the mere presence of these police officers that have pretty theoretically drawn a line in the sand and kind of, you know, testing people to see if they'll come, then add the other layer of that that there are clear racial undertones here. going back to the reason why we're here in the first place, a young man was shot and killed. so all those complicated layers make it more of a really fraught situation. >> okay, thanks so much. we'll be back to you again throughout the week.

trymaine lee and amy nelson. when we return, let me finish with the heart of the whole thing in ferguson. it's not just race. it's economics. we'll be right back after this. let me finish tonight where danger! price tag alert! oh. hey, guys. price tag alert! is this normal? well, progressive is a price tag free zone. we let you tell us what you want to pay, and we help you find options to fit your budget. where are they taking him? i don't know. this seems excessive! decontamination in progress. i don't want to tell you guys your job, but... policies without the price tags. now, that's progressive.

could help your business didavoid hours of delaynd test caused by slow internet from the phone company? that's enough time to record a memo. idea for sales giveaway. return a call. sign a contract. pick a tie. take a break with mr. duck. practice up for the business trip. fly to florida. win an award. close a deal. hire an intern. and still have time to spare. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed if we can't offer faster speeds - or save you money - we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight where i began 24 hours ago. economics. it's at the heart of this whole thing. you look at a situation like ferguson, missouri, the young people coming out of high school face a 50% unemployment rate. i doubt that even that figure represents the true reality of how many have simply given up finding a job.

and this is career plan we're talking about in ferguson in places like it. there is no plan. got it? and so we send police officers into the streets to keep the lid on. to keep the peace. keep the law obeyed where young people see no future, no future at all. they think about what this does to your attitude. you think about it. the dealing with the world. and think about what it does to the police officers getting out there each day facing this proportionate poverty, disproportionate hopelessness, disproportionate, being duty bound, honor bound to treat all citizens proportionately. as eric holder just warned in an article aimed at those arrests, "arrest patterns" he said "must not lead to disparate dream treatment under the laws." the hard facts are these, we can't continue doing what we're doing and expect different results. change of attitude among angry young people will only come when their conditions changes, lives look better, their hopes rise. if this president makes one change between now and leaves office, i wish it were to insist to the american people on the

price we'll continue to pay for the failure to put people to work in this country. that means what i just said, put people to work. there's much that needs doing in this country and no way in the world the private sector is going to do it. it's up to government to get people back to work. as ronald reagan of all people said back in his 1983 state of the union, "we who are in government must take the lead in putting people back to work." he said that. and the democrats in congress stood there and cheered and i was there. so it's the economy stupid. and as for the police, it's all part of that vicious cycle. no job, no hope, and the crime and the fear that hopelessness always ignites. so it's about jobs, but not only that, a change in attitude among police will only come when their superiors get the word out in the ranks as much as humanly possible they must address individuals with the presumption of innocence, the respect of full citizenship, and the dignity of shared humanity.

yes, this is hard, but yes, it is also necessary. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, live from ferguson, missouri, i'm chris hayes. yet another day in what is turning out to be the cruel summer of 2014. a whole lot of news that we are monitoring tonight. tonight, i am here in ferguson, and all it took last night in this same spot was a couple