costs of fighting wildfires like this one in southern california. and keep the news out of ka lee coming. the red carpet awards that willy night in nbc. your host this year, the very talented seth meyers. that's going to do it for "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> i was under the impression. i thought bruce said he didn't want his music played at you're vents because he didn't believe in your politics. >> no, you're wrong about that. bruce has never asked me to do that. i saw bruce about a week and a half ago, and he had every opportunity to tell me not to. he didn't and he never has told me not to do it. >> i'm pretty sure -- >> i know him and you're wrong. you're now expressing your

politics. you're now expressing your politics and your objection, that's fine. don't put it in mr. springsteen's mouth. put it in yours. if you have an objection to it, you object. you have every right to object to it. i know bruce and i've spoken to bruce and you're wrong. speak your mind. be angry or not, it doesn't matter to me. i have a job to do and i'm going to do my job the best way i know how to do it. if you object to it, that's okay. >> the question -- >> i thought i heard what you have to say. we've got the idea. seriously, when you start off by mischaracterizing. >> i didn't make it up. >> i'm sure you're pretty sure. you have no place else to go with the story except to stick with the story you got. >> how about the story about the disabled. >> if you want to debate, run for governor and i'll debate you. i'm not debating you now.

>> that went on and on and on. i kept waiting for it -- >> he's back! >> good morning everyone. it's wednesday, august 20th. welcome to "morning joe." >> that's a good sign because donny is over there that's terrible, he's such a bully. i'm sitting there going he's doing really great. >> okay. onset, we have donny deutsch. >> you thought that was good? >> i thought that was great. >> we'll talk about that in a second. >> you know what i think is great, also. letting mika introduce people without interrupting her. we have a code on this show. >> we do? what's the code? >> don't interrupt. i didn't know about that code seven years in. msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. in washington, roll call's editor in chief christina bellantoni. good to have you on board as well this morning. also coming up, they did the mugshot of rick perry.

>> what a stupid -- >> speaking of governors. >> did he smile? >> he had a nice smile. >> look at him. he's a good looking guy. >> it's not exactly anything -- you know what? he looks good and has every reason to be happy right now. the democrats have over reached. >> from texas to virginia, bob mcdonnell on trial. we'll have report on that as well. >> that is -- that's a tough one. let me ask you about mr. springsteen and mr. christie. what did you think? >> i think the debate might have gone on a little long but i'm used to people going on long. >> maybe that's why i related to it. you kept asking questions and as a reporter, she decided she was going to get into a debate, she had her springsteen information wrong and she started moving on

to other questions, and he's right. if they want to hear the reporter, the reporter should hold a town hall meeting. they're there to hear chris christie. was that a reporter or constituent? >> i think it was a town hall -- it was a constituent. >> same with a constituent. sf they want to debate, the constituent can hold her own town hall meeting. i would much rather this happen than having him cowering in the corner going i'm sorry. >> there's somewhere in between. i'm not saying he should cower. he comes across as an obnoxious puj listic bully. i'm looking as a human being, he looks like an unappealing, nasty human being. >> no, he doesn't. he looks like a guy -- >> there's a way to push back and move on. we've seen thousands of politicians say that's unacceptable. next question. >> no disrespect to these two people who i know personally and like personally. but in the age of hillary

clinton and jeb bush, a lot of people want to see that. in an age where washington, d.c. is stuck in the mud and everybody has canned responses and nobody shows their real emotions and everything you say is market tested and poll driven, that breaks through, and that's why chris christie worked before, and i think that's why, if the investigations all go -- >> what i said from the get-go, he definitely broke away from the mold. he put himself out there in every way in a very honest way, a way that seemed extremely authentic. >> willie is in jersey -- >> the authentic aspect is what resonates with people. >> it's authentic, but obnoxious. >> i go out to the hamptons in

my $100 million mansion every week end, maybe it comes out that way. >> i thought you weren't going to -- >> it's your house. you have to pay it. >> he tortures me weekend and week out in the hamptons and he said i might be out there this weekend, can i come hang? >> we're doing this because sweet little lewis is getting married and having an engagement party. i'm going to stay at gatsby's mansion. is it mick that lives there? >> i'm like mick. i'll go there and watch you do all this profane stuff and sit there. then i go back -- >> he'll be in awe. >> i go back to the west end. >> you should see the green light. >> and joe will be dancing.

>> really quickly, you're a jersey boy. when they want to know what the kids are thinking on the streets of jersey, they ask willie geist. what do you think? >> it's an odd topic, whether or not bruce springsteen likes you. i don't think it's as unanimously good as you might think it is in new jersey. i've talked to people, they like the honesty, they like that kind of stuff. beneath that stuff, when they look at some of the other things he does, they doesn't always love it. the numbers are good for a guy who has been through a scandal, whether you think it's a big deal or not. i think what's important, if he has big aspirations is whether or not that plays outside of new jersey. >> we've got a lot of news to cover. isis continues to be a dark cloud that covers the middle east. i can't even show the front of

the "new york post." but "the daily news" has a shot of -- they are absolute savages. i don't know what they think they're proving, but all they're doing is, they're just setting themselves up to be killed, all of them. everybody that acts that way, it never ends well for them when you do that to the united states. it just doesn't. it's not jingoism. where is osama bin laden now? i hope he enjoyed his day in the son. where is saddam hussein right now? i hope he enjoyed it. it's not going to end well for isis. i will say this again thank you president obama for going against your base. this is a scourge that needs to be wiped out from the middle east. i say that with great trepidation after supporting the gulf war, great trepidation

after supporting the first gulf war, like about 70% of americans. that was, we found out later, an optional war. this fight against isis, there's nothing operational about it. they are a scourge that will continue to spread and find its way to america's doorstep. the reason i said we should get out of afghanistan four years ago is because the taliban didn't want to blow up buildings in the united states. these people, they want to kill us all, and if they stay in iraq and they stay -- get in control of an oil field and get money and get weapons, they will come to us and they will kill as many of us as quickly as they can. this is something the president can't ignore. i would like the republicans to salute them for stepping forward and doing what he's done over the past week or two. we can all go back and criticize what he's done -- i think democrats criticize what we republicans have done. and then we get nowhere.

>> going against the base is something that some pol politician haves a lot of fear about. so that's commendable for you to say. the big story here in the united states, attorney general eric holder will be in ferguson, missouri, in just a few hours, 11 days after the deadly shooting of an unarmed black teenager by police. tense moments overnight between police and demonstrators after calm for most of the day. peaceful protesters could be heard screaming "not tonight" as water and glass bottle ts were thrown at police. state highway patrol captain ron johnson is hopeful the violence may be declining. >> i think that was made by the clergy, the activists, volunteers, men and women of law enforcement partnered together to make a difference, but also those citizens took heed to what we talked about last night, not allowing criminals to mask themselves in a peaceful

protests. they protested early and went home early and allowed us to have a better look at those criminals and and staters roaming the streets for their own agenda. >> captain ron johnson. >> can you show the end of that clip again? i'm just going to say it. >> got to work around the clock because of this. >> you have one african-american police captain and i see white faces back there. >> only 3 out of 50 -- >> it shouldn't be about race. guess what? it's about race. this is about race. i don't know. >> that speaks to the problem that that community has. >> that's the problem in ferguson, exactly. >> let's go to ferguson. nbc news correspondent craig melvin has been on the ground for several days. it's good to see you. we hear a relatively good night

last night but we heard that before so we're leery of celebrating that. what is the mood on the ground and what you think now that you've been there for a couple days breaks this and brings the peace. >> that's a good question, willie. everyone seems to be in pretty much universal agreement that the one thing that would probably empty these streets fairly quickly is if there was some sort of indictments, charges brought against that officer. as you know, the grand jury convening about 9:00 this morning to start hearing some evidence, it was very interesting, as you just heard there, 47 arrests last night, no molotov cocktails, no shooting, no teargas used. there was pepper spray used. you can see that in one of the clips played there. but it was calmer. the crowd itself, i can tell you, was smaller last night than it had been. there also seemed to be a shift in police strategy. captain johnson told me earlier in the day that we might see this and we did, in fact, see it

last night. in previous nights you saw those officers in riot gear wearing helmets, shields out. shoulder to shoulder. sort of a very offensive position. last night you did not see that. you saw smaller groups of officers and they were mingling, so to speak, in some cases with these smaller groups of protesters as well that once again were being forced to make that lap around the main drag here in ferguson. we also saw those military-style vehicles. in previous nights, they had been right smack in the middle of the street again in sort of an offensive position. nonetheless, an intimidating position. last night those vehicles were not in the middle of the street. they were on the side as well. so there are a number of folks who have said -- said to me last night, that little things like that did, in fact, make a difference. of course, as you know, captain johnson urged the peaceful protesters not to come out last

night and do their protesting in the day. by all accounts it looks like a lot of those protesters did just that. >> all right. speaking with msnbc's tamron hall, ferguson mayor james knowles looked to downplay suggestions of racial tensions within the community. take a look. >> there's not a racial divide in the city of ferguson. >> according to who? is that your perspective or do you believe that's the perspective of african-americans in your city? >> that's the perspective of all residents in our city. >> there are people, with all due respect, there are people on air on any network, even if you don't watch this one, who disagree and live there. i'm asking, with all due respect, are you listening to them? >> absolutely. there's 22,000 residents in our community. this has affected about a half mile strip of street in our community. the rest of our community, the rest of the african-americans in our community are going through

out their daily lives, going to businesses, walking their dog. >> kind of like saying after 9/11, look at new york. new york is fine. what's wrong with new york. >> that's perfect. >> what are you talking about? nothing has happened in new york. it's a small strip of buildings at the island down there. the guy is clueless right there. >> he is absolutely clueless. for days people have been asking where is the political leadership in this town. they hadn't seen mayors or members of the city council. he comes out and he's clueless. you understand why folks in that community will pissed off right now. >> he looks like he just came back from vacation and has no idea what's going on. there's three out of 53 members of the police force, his police force, right? >> right. >> that are black. >> not only that, mika.

out of 53 in a city that's 70% african-american. >> how can you let that happen when you're hiring and trying to figure out a force that represents the community. >> i know how you let that happen. >> you don't think there's a problem. >> then to make matters worse, you say there's not a problem. >> you think because you say it that that means it's the rule of law because you are clueless and you're not self aware. >> i don't know if this guy knows, willie, even the egyptian government is chastising for what's going on in ferguson. if the generals in egypt are criticizing you for your human rights record. >> the ayatollah in iran is tweeting about ferguson, missouri. >> there are things that happened in the moments after this young man was killed that have traumatized that area of town, that whole town. he was left lying in the streets for hours. he was not covered up.

and there were children -- there were people so stunned at what they were seeing, they were videotaping it because they didn't know what else to do. they were traumatized that they saw this young man get gunned down and he laid there in the middle of the street, not surrounded, not covered. they didn't put -- they said they didn't want to tamper with the scene. my god, they certainly didn't tamper with the scene. they left the scene there for everyone to see to be traumatized for hours. >> it's the same thing in the trayvon case. the parents weren't even notified that he was in the morgue for a couple of days. again, the game we always play around this set is what if a republican president did this -- and in these cases you have to ask what if it was a white 18-year-old kid shot in the middle of a suburban neighborhood? it's the same questions i asked

every day during hurricane katrina. if this has happened in an exclusive suburb of dallas, texas, would the president be looking down from 30,000 feet or walking around shaking hands? it's the same thing here. if this happened in a white neighborhood. >> it continues to stress the black community in particular in these areas that are suddenly thrust into this reality again. for them it's every day. this is an everyday occurrence. this frustration has been going on for a long time. for the mayor to sit there and act like it isn't -- >> craig melvin, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," how a grand jury investigation into the death of choke hold victim eric garner play out in a staten island courtroom? we'll about to find out. plus -- we deal in the unique, the unusual, barely legal, and we always get the deal. this is barely legal pawn.

>> just a few days away from this year's emmy awards, we have this reminder of how brilliant the cast of "breaking bad" was. up next from vice presidential candidate to intellectual leader of the republican party, paul ryan is standing by. >> i thought that was me. >> no, joe, it's paul. >> you took my mantle. i trademark that. >> he still looks like a sweet young man. you know who doesn't look like a sweet young man? bill karins. >> pretty amazetion stuff in arizona. we got trenched. it only happens a couple times every year. the flooding was pretty epic. north of phoenix they picked up about four inches of rain in a short period of time. horses being rescued, running in the water, numerous accidents. and 17 was closed at one point.

when it rainses that water goes wherever it wants. that's over and done. the story now is the heat and humidity. the dew points measure how much moisture in the air. this is the most humid and hottest we've been across the country, especially in the southern half. heat warning in st. louis and heat advisories from memphis into southern illinois. how hot will it be? not record shattering, when you add the humidity into this, it will feel like 105 today in st. louis. that continues all week. that's the thing about this. this is going to be a long duration, definitely as we go throughout the weekend and even into next week. look at memphis, tennessee, near 100 all weekend long. the heat is with us and it figures it would arrive at the end of summer. as we go into next week, we could be watching something in the tropics heading for areas like the gulf of mexico. it's going to be a feeling of summer and the tropical season in the week ahead. we leave you with a nice, warm, beautiful shot of the capital in

washington, d.c. we'll have more coming up here on "morning joe."

you know what he said -- >> that's why i put this on. >> he said they were getting itchy. >> vernon jordan, seriously, every time i see him in the airport, he chases me down. and he's like, son, wear a tie. stop looking like that. >> he would know, joe. >> disgraceful. if i looked as good as vernon jordan every time i put on a coat and tie, i'd wear a coat and tie. >> i assumed when i saw that, that's what you put on when you got out of bed.

>> that's a faulty assumes. that's what i wore to bed. >> the night is still continuing. >> with us onset, not only the house budget chairman, but also the guy that puts out the list of the worst dressed man in america, congressman paul ryan. >> of wisconsin. out with "the way forward: renewing the american idea." good to see you. how are you doing? >> doing well. >> how is the family. >> sn. >> great. cross country practice began the other day. all three doing it. the young guy on nye knee, the first year of eligibility. >> who is fastest? >> oh, my daughter. a great hurdler, too. >> were you a runner? >> distance. slow, not fast. >> slow and steady gets it done. >> what were you? >> i was fast and short. on my football team i ran the

fastest, like eight yards. out of the gates -- i still surprise my son and his friends, i explode very quickly. after about eight yards, i have to smoke a cigarette. i'm joking kids. daddy doesn't smoke. paul, a lot to talk about here. i want to get to as much as we can. we certainly want to talk about the book. first let's talk about ferguson which sfeeds right into the book. we were having a conversation yesterday about the frustration of covering ferguson and everybody is covering what happened in the past week. these people have been left behind. they've been abandoned. let's try to pass this program, let's try to pass this program and we're not guilty anymore of the lives that they live. they're abandoned. >> isolated. >> i try not to inject my personal policy preferences on to a tragedy. i think just of respect for the brown family, the community,

it's important as policymakers to see look what's happening and do what i think should be done. i think it's important not to do that. having said all that, i talk about it in this book and i put out a plan a number of weeks ago, we have got to reengage with the poor in america. we are in the 50th anniversary on the war on poverty and poverty is winning. let's think about how to measure success instead of on input, how many dollars we spend, but helping people out of poverty. >> how do we engage when americans are hearing republicans saying let's cut this program, let's cut that program? >> one of the reasons i wrote this book, if you don't like the governing philosophy prevailing in washington, what would we do differently? i think the country is on the wrong track. a lot of people agree with me. not everybody. here is the kind of governing philosop philosophy, the community agenda and the solutions necessary for renewing the american idea which

is basically the condition of your birth doesn't determine the outcome of your life. >> my question is, does that require a slashing of spending for the type of programs that keep a lot of people that we're seeing on tv alive, the food on the table? >> the entire premise of that question presupposes that these programs are great. >> i don't presuppose that. but i know we can't tomorrow pass a budget that's going to cut aid off to the truly disadvantaged. >> you voted for welfare reform in 1996 that did more to reduce child poverty than any reform in the modern era. what i'm saying is let's rethink it like that, take the other welfare programs that have not been reformed and cuz tommize them to a person's individual specific needs so we can work on fighting poverty, soul to soul, eye to eye and back up a community. one of the problems i think of the war on poverty, we've had this federal government

intervention that has told the common taxpayer, this is government's responsibility, it's not ours. we've isolated people in our communities. i think we need to reengage that. let's reform the welfare program so that we're getting able-bodied people in the workforce. we talk about high tax rate. the highest arguably is the single mom making $20,000 to $40,000 who ends up making a decision going to work and faces these high marginal tax rates. there's a lot of room for reform. >> congressman, you know the cartoon version of you put out by critics and democrats, all you want to do is cut, cut, cut. you want to throw old people and poor people out on the street. how do you answer that in the context of this conversation? what would you do specifically besides cutting to help disadvantaged people? >> first i'd say read my book, not just a shameless plug. i talk about a different

governing philosophy to reconnect people with the american idea who don't think it's there for them in their communities. i've proposed a number of things here, rethinking the way we fight poverty and reintegrating civil society, communities with federal resources to focus on getting able bodied people to work and having a safety net that's resilient for those who can't help themselves. one of the problems in america, we're going bankrupt. we have a debt crisis on the horizon. that puts the safety net in jeopardy. the or problem is we're not having the economic growth and opportunity. a lot of reforms there. with specific focus on poverty, there are people in america who are doing amazing things over coming poverty, helping people do so. i talk about a lot of them in my book. i talk about an agenda that helps fwhak up so we can do more of those things. we need another.

>> we have to do lightning round. we brought christina in from washington. >> christina from "roll call?" >> she hates you. for 30 minutes, i'm going to trash him. >> the only reason i'm here. >> we told her to hold back. >> how do you expect the issue will be resolved with the border spending bill? you guys passed something before you left. it's going to be the first issue confronting you when you come back september 8th. you also have talk that there could be a supplemental request coming from the white house. could those two issues end up being merged? >> i think that's quite possible. as you know, the supplemental we carried in our budget was higher than what the administration asked for. i think there will be a reconciliation there. we're waiting to see what the senate will do on the border bill since the house acted to deal with the humanitarian crisis on the border. if there's an additional supplemental request from the white house on iraq, that's

something we'll have to deal with basically in a week or so. >> mike? >> to pick up on what you have in your book, let's take the landscape where the republicans take the senate in november. now you have the house and the senate. how do we govern with president obama 2015 to 2016? >> we should define ourselves with our actions and pass the policies we believe and show what we can do if we can get them into law. put some things on president obama's desk to have hick maim decisions. be prudent in trying to get the incremental gains to get things moving. like the budget deal patty murray and i did last year, do something like that again, to get modest down payments on our debt situation. candidly, i don't think we're going to fix these big problems with this president. get things done on an incremental basis and also show what we would do if we could. >> on an incremental basis and not impeaching the president.

>> that comes from wackos on the left. this is a -- >> hold on, hold on. here we go. we're going to get this on tape. should the president be impeached? >> no. >> we got it on tape. there we go. we got it on tape. i don't do that with everybody. i agree with you. they'll find one crackpot. out of 435 -- i was always a crackpot with what i had to say thank you, paul. >> sometime in washington in the fall, run around the wall, your kids against mine. i have runners. >> me and willie will do eight-yard sprints. >> the book is "the way forward." congressman paul ryan, thank you so much. up next, guaranteed skol ships -- >> you guys can't say oh, impeach -- he's the intellectual

leader of the party. >> very, very smart. smart young man. >> plus the right to target tourists. taking matters into their own hands? the morning papers are next. [ woman ] the cadillac summer collection is here. ♪ ♪

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the baltimore sun." the university of maryland announced a new program that will guarantee so-called lifetime scholarships to student athletes until they graduate. it means athletes will be able to finish their studies regardless of injuries or how they perform. >> that's a great idea. >> i think that's fantastic. the new program will go into effect this november. >> from the staten island advanced, grand jury will decide if charges should be filed in the choke hold death of eric garner. this next month the grand jury will review all evidence in the case and doesn't need a unanimous agreement to decide whether to indict. earlier this month the city examiner ruled the death a homicide caused by a choke hold

and compression of his chest during the arrest. "the washington post," top obama strategist is heading to silicon valley. david plouffe, presidential adviser is joining uber as senior vice president of policy and strategy. the car service is looking to use plouffe's campaign skills to gain entry into more cities, many of which have a powerful taxi lobby and strict regulations through which the company will have to maneuver. >> i thought he was going to be chief of staff? >> he's going into the private sector. the "new york post." dozens of costume characters in new york city's times square held a rally on tuesday. >> oh, good lord. >> to fight for the ability to collect tips from tourists. the rally comes as police -- stop -- police continue to crack down following reports of aggressive -- >> i'm sorry. >> it is kind of funny. >> numerous characters have also been arrested for alleged

assault -- >> harassment or groping. why don't we all say that's why they're laughing. you see people put on these dirty outfits and you think they're creeps. >> some of them are nice people. >> but when i saw all those -- i would never let my kids like in the middle of that. >> they're groping? >> it's a little hard, with due respect to take them seriously when minnie mouse is holding a press conference, shaking her fist at the cameras. charlottesville daily progress a stoner in unionville, new jersey, has been arrested for allegedly selling weed. his name, paul scott stoner. mr. stoner was growing marijuana and selling it to minors. >> you can't do that. >> charged with manufacturing weed and possession of a firearm. further charges are still pending. >> i didn't understand when you said stoner was arrested for selling weed. okay. still ahead, congress may be

in recess, but we now know how one of the senate's most respected members sends his downtime. >> senator mccain getting loose. >> that's not mccain. are you kidding me? ♪ i think she tried to kill us. no, it's only 15 calories.

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serious problem in new york. 48% say cuomo is part of the problem. cuomo's ahead of republican rob affidavit reno, essentially the same as in may. it doesn't seem to have affected race. >> donny, no impact there? >> no. you may like or dislike andrew cuomo. he has done by most measures a very effective job in new york. he's not getting unseated. i think people are somewhat an northwest sized, government is a little corrupt. unless it's something interestingly enough like the christie bridge thing, where people can understand whether that happened or not. >> that's funny. here you have a guy that shut down an ethics commission compared to two lanes being shut down and you're like shutting down two lanes. >> joe --

>> can i finish. >> you are a funny -- >> it's the people's inability to understand the scandal. the bridge thing, oh, he closed down lanes. that same poll, if you asked people what are you talking about, they would have no idea. >> with your rich left wing friends. >> there are rich right wing people, too. a lot of hedge fund guys. >> mainly left wing. christina, it looks like andrew cuomo could do basically anything and still win this race. it's -- the governor's race, is it going to be fast governor's race that dannel malloy down seven points. >> this is what happens in a national tie because democrats are starting to really feel the pain in a lot of places, and "roll call" has a story that went up about illinois and governor pat quinn there, extremely unpopular. he only won three counties when

he won his race in 2010. now he's not even doing well in those. they're fearing that house democrats could be dragged down along with him. they're already in tight races. some of them are among the more vulnerable members of the house this year. in some of these marginal places, this could end up being a tie that takes people up and down the ticket. that's what we saw in 2010, that tide started to turn and swept in new state legislatures and governors. >> we'll look for that piece, christina bellantoni, thank you so much. we'll be checking out the top stories in "roll call" this morning, first thing after "morning joe." should super bowl half-time performers pay to play? if the nfl has its way, that will be happening. okay. "morning joe" will be right back. ups is a global company, but most of our employees live in the same communities that we serve.

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t "wall street journal" reports that the nfl is asking artists to pay to perform at this year's super bowl half-time show. the performers narrowed down to three, rihanna, katy perry and cold play. officials asked if they would be willing to give a portion of

their post super bowl tour income or some other financial contribution to the league in exchange for the half-time gig. donny, you said it makes sense. >> obviously if it's known that they pay, it takes away from -- having said that, any of these artists would pay because the reality of getting in front of a billion people, that audience, bruno mars last year exploded even more. it is the stage of the year. i don't think it will ever be public, but if they work out some behind the scenes -- >> do they usually get paid? >> no. but the exposure. it's the best exposure of the year. >> for the first time ever, a little leaguer has made the national cover of "sports illustrated." >> no way! >> s.i. cover girl, 13-year-old pitching sensation monet davis who plays for philadelphia's tan any dragons. >> girls play? >> she throws some heat. the eighth grader first grabbed national attention for throwing a shutout that sent her team to the world series. then she followed that up by becoming the first girl to throw

a shutout in world series history after a 4-0 win over nashville. also the sixth girl ever to record a hit at the little league world series. monet davis says her dream is to play basketball for the university of connecticut. >> how cool is that. >> we introduce add new segment, scarborough horoscope. his horoscope is keep your ideas simple today because the more complicated your plans get, the more likely you'll end in failure. you really don't need to do anything out of the ordinary at the moment. just be yourself. that's more than enough. that's today's scarborough horoscope. >> simple plans for a simple mind. >> be yourself. >> i don't know how that's different than what he does every day. >> that will be on every day at 6:52. coming up the top of the hour, protesters and police. we'll explore both sides of the standoff in ferguson, missouri and the issues raised because of

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welcome back to "morning joe." donny was hanging out with elite company over the weekend. hamptons for the apollo raising money for the apollo theater. >> big event. i've never seen a room like this, from jack nickel son, barbra streisand, christie and mccain, jamie foxx. it was ridiculous. bon jovi played and sting played and pharrell played. of course, there was mccain and christie dancing on stage. >> jamie foxx was on stage, called up governor christie. let's give some props here to senator john mccain doing the robot. the arizona center showed he can get down a little bit. >> oh, my goodness. i think it's fantastic. >> he dives in. let's give him credit for that. >> he shows up. >> jamie foxx said he was impressed by senator mccain's robot. >> good stuff. >> wow. if you're going to take vienna,

take vienna. he's taking vienna right there. >> fantastic. on monday night the team from rhode island at the little league world series was a little low after being eliminated. the manager david bell isle gave his teary-yeed team an inspirational speech they're sure to remember. >> everybody, heads up high. let's talk for a moment here. i got to see your eyes, guys. there's no disappointment in your effort in the whole tournament, the whole season. it's been an incredible journey. look at the score. 8-7. 12-10 in hits. came to the last out, we didn't quit. that's us. boys, that's us. the only reason why i'll probably end up shedding a tear is because this is the last time i'm going to end up coaching you guys. but i'm going to bring back with

me and the coaching staff and you guys will bring back something that no other team can provide but you guys, that's pride, pride. >> i love the smile. pride, we got each other. what a great message. >> i'm going to cry. all right. that was beautiful. the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. when i was a u.s. attorney privately to our staff, i hear a politician make some comments about a case they thought we were working on or whatever, i'd say i hate when these guys that don't know anything act like they know everything. now that i'm in public office, i don't want to be guilty of the same thing i used to criticize them for. until i know more, i'll give the police the benefit of the doubt here in new jersey and as for missouri, let's let those guys work it out an learn whatever

lessons we need to learn from what happened when we get all the facts. >> welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch, michael steele with us. >> an ominous view of new york city with the national in the background, look at that. >> we have political columnist for "time" magazine -- >> i would love a picture of that. >> joe klein joins us today. >> we're so blessed actually to be here every morning. jo klein, good to have you. in washington, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker and president of the benard center for women politics and public policy michelle bernard joins us as well. good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning. >> a lot to get to. attorney general eric holder will be in ferguson, missouri, in just a few hours. 11 days after the deadly shooting of an unarmed black teenager by police. there were tense moments again

overnight between police and demonstrators after palm for most of the day. peaceful protesters could be heard screaming "not tonight" as water and glass bottles were thrown at police. 47 people were arrested. state highway patrol captain ron johnson is hopeful the violence may be declining. >> i think that turning point was made by the clergy, the activists, the volunteers, the men and women of law enforcement who partnered together to make a difference. also those citizens took heed to what we talked about last night, not allowing criminals to mask themselves in a peaceful protests. they protested early and went home early and allowed a better visual, a look at those criminals and and staters roaming the streets for their own agenda. >> earlier in the day there was another police-involved shooting just two miles from ferguson. st. louis, police, shot and killed a man armed with a knife. just hours before his visit,

attorney general holder is making a pledge to the residents of ferguson in an open letter he vows there will be a full, fair and independent investigation meanwhile a funeral will be held for 18-year-old michael brown whose death earlier led to the widespread protests. mayor james knowles had a heated back and forth with msnbc's tamron hall over whether there is a racial divide in ferguson. >> there's not a racial divide in ferguson. >> is that your perspective or do you believe that's the perspective of african-americans in your community? >> that is a perspective of all residents in our city, absolutely. >> have you been watching the news? please w all due respect, there are people on air, on any net work even if you don't watch this one who disagree who live there. with all due respect, are you listening to them? >> absolutely. there's 22,000 residents in our

community. this has affected about a half-mile strip of street in our community. the rest of our community, the rest of the african-americans in our community are going about their daily lives, going to our businesses, walking their dog, going to our neighborhood watch meetings. >> that's like saying after 9/11, the upper side the restaurant is really good this time of year. >> put him on a milk car tochb. >> you understand why ferguson is having the problems it's having on the police force. it has 50 white officers and three african-americans and a mayor who says there's no racial problems in ferguson. >> are you kidding me? >> it's as if the community were cry logically frozen in the era before the voting rights act passed. this is a melanin-deprived government in a 60% black town.

the lack of political leadership throughout, including the governor jay nixon, has been just appalling. where has he been? why haven't there been town meeting there is to talk about this? >> leadership is such an x factor. you go down the list. i was talking to my former chief of staff during katrina. he said you know what? this is what happens when politics gets into checking the box. are they pro life or pro choice? are they for guns or against guns? then you get to the x factor of leadership. i talk about jeb because i saw him up close. i've never seen anyone take command more powerfully but also with a light touch when he needed it. bill clinton, obviously, a guy you kronkaled has the x factor of leadership in times of crisis. it's missing here. >> on all sides. >> all levels.

there isn't the quality of black leadership that the country used to have. >> let's go to peter baker here, your front page article in "the new york times" today. obviously a vacuum at local leadership. eric holder stepping in. fascinating piece on the differences between these two men, eric holder, a son of the civil rights movement. barack obama, obviously much more complicated background which doesn't connect him quite as viscerally as eric holder. talk about the two men who share the same vision but have different approaches and at the end of the day will have a big impact on what happens in ferguson. >> you do see these two men, the first african-american president, the first african-american attorney general. they share a vision but approach from different points of view. sometimes you hear disappointment on the part of

some of president obama's supporters, that he's not more outspoken on issues like this, that he's not as assertive as attorney general holder seems to be. the backgrounds, where they come from, what their personal experiences are, and the roles they play. president obama is not a very -- he's a reserved person to begin with. he wants to find a balance, be the president for all people. he doesn't want to influence a case that's very active. they make a distinction between this and his personal comments after the trayvon martin case which came after the courts had already acted. in this case he's holding back trying to calm a situation without inflaming it, whereas attorney general holder will be on the ground today in ferguson personally taking charge of the investigation there to some extent. >> michelle, it's donny. let's say you're the czar put in charge of turning this thing around and you have a playbook at this point going forward.

what happens to not put this behind us, but to take this and elevate it and put it on the right track? >> sf i were running this, one of the things i would do quite frankly is appeal to the president. i understand his role. he's in a very difficult situation. we know he's being briefed daily. he is intimately aware of what's happening. i think this is one of those times where we need leadership from the absolute very top of the nation. one of the best speeches i believe president obama ever gave was when he spoke with then senator obama right after the whole controversy with reverend wright. he talked about things happening in the black community and black people themselves being responsible for our lives. when we talk about the racial divide that we're seeing, i'll tell you, i have seen some of the nastiest hate mail i have ever seen in my entire life in dealing with public policy issues, and the divide is so clear.

we need someone like the president to come in and say, look, as a member of the african-american community, i understand what ills the community and what we need to do, ourselves as a community to take responsibility for our lives. however that doesn't mean that the government can be a co-conspirator in what looks like the execution of a young black men. the lives of black males are just as valuable and just as important as others. >> mukal, we talked earlier. it's so important we come together. i was wondering, the trayvon case. i caught a lot of you know what, a lot of crap for talking about how offensive it was things that went on down there: i see for the first time a break in the dam of republican silence. i'm not saying republicans are racist or insensitive. my party, though, usually shuts up when things like this happen.

rand paul come out and say there are two americas when it comes to justice. he's exactly right. you have erick erickson, another conservative guy, a good friend of mine saying, hey, guys, we really shouldn't wait for this to happen to a white kid before we get offended. let's get offended now. even ted cruz talked about the heavy handedness of it. that's to me a really good sign. if we're going to have a real conversation about race, we need both sides engaged in this. >> you do need both sides engaged and to take it out of the realm of the political. at the end of the day, this is how white america views black america and how black america responds to that. that's the conversation we're not having. we dance around it. we gloss over it and say we're in a post racial america because we have a black president in the white house, a black attorney general. at the end of the day, young black males are being arrested,

killed and harassed in their communities. >> as the economy suffers, it gets worse. >> combination of the criminal justice system, the economy, all these factors playing out in these communities. the problem is we're not addressing them. it builds up like any pressure system. it's important to hear rand paul on the right and folks on the left talk about this or begin to break this open. at the end of the day, if we don't deal with it, it festers -- >> i want to come from the left f from an unexpected point of view. obviously this is a tragedy. i want to liken this to a medical situation, where on a daily basis there are tens of thousands of operations going on in this country, life and death. sometimes there's malpractice, the doctor screws up. before we talk about black america, white america and this tremendous divide, isn't there just basically an ar rith mattic

certainty that out of hundreds of thousands of daily interactions between law enforcement and suspects, whatever you want to -- that this is going to -- >> donny, i know where you're going, donny. here is the deal. we have made great, great -- over the past 50, 60 years we've made great strides. but in this area, the criminal justice system. if your kid gets busted for weed, african-american kid gets busted for weed. your kid is off. the african-american, he could be in jail for five -- there is an uneven application of crime and punishment in america based on the color of skin. right wing bloggers, you can be pissed off with me if you want to, it's just numbers it really is. you can look numerically joe

klein at the numbers and black males, they're so much worse in the system. and this, even if we don't look at who has the money, to have the lawyers. >> you've got to look at reality, too. this is a very complicated situation. first of all, there are two competing stories about what actually happened. part of the problem we have in having a conversation about this in this country -- i've done a lot of reporting in neighborhoods like this when african-americans look in a situation, they see a metaphoric truth of 400 years of white people vamping on blacks. but that's not good enough you also have to look at the facts of the case. >> by the way, i said that. i'm not even talking about this case. i'm talking about in general, the criminal justice system --

>> in general, blacks represent 13% of the population and 50% of the people convicted for murder. 90% of blacks who are killed are killed by other blacks. this is a cultural problem in that community which may well have roots in all of the historic crap we've laid on t m them, but it las to be expressed with a certain amount of subtlety and complexity. >> joe, i just wanted to add quickly. when we talk about problems within the african-american community and talk about criminal justice, i think we have to talk about prescriptions, i think the most important prescription everyone needs to be having at the national level is education. african-americans and other people who find themselves ignored and living in low income neighborhoods are almost relegated to being a permanent underclass because your education is based on zip code. we all know that you escape

poverty with a good education. if you can't get a good education, we're going to continue to see what we're seeing in ferguson and we're going to continue to see some people in the commit community believe that black people are lesser. >> that's why a lot of us around this table, i will put politics into it, are offended when poor african-american children in harlem are not allowed to have the same choices on what school they want to go to as rich white people. >> that's right. >> by the way, when you stand -- i will say this. when you stand in the doorway of allowing a poor african-american child in harlem to be able to go to a good school for political purposes -- >> a charter school. >> a charter school. >> a public charter school, you are no better than george wallace standing in the door of the university of alabama and not letting african-americans go in -- >> the kids in the charter schools in harlem are scoring the same on aptitude tests as

the rich kids in westchester county. >> with all their tutors. >> exactly. >> joe klein, thank you so much. michelle bernard, thank you as well. peter stay with us. we have other stories to get to you on. still ahead on moenl "morning joe," the two sides of maureen mcdomd as told by the other maureen mcdonnell, bob mcdonnell's sister. they share the same name as his wife testifies in the couple's corruption trial. we have all the details. we'll also get the latest from alaska's important senate primary, the republican primary there. up next, #ferguson, how twitter played a major role in thrusting the missouri story into the national spotlight. "the new york times" david carr joins us with how social media is break news in a new and compelling way. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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u.s. intelligence officials are analyzing a video that appears to show islamic militants murdering an american journalist. it appears to show them be heading james foley. the militants say it is retaliation for u.s. air strikes against isis in iraq. they are threatening to to kill another journalist held captive there. >> peter baker, i goes most americans are waking up this morning and seeing the -- i'll say it, the sheer evil in isis, a lot of these militants. i think it's been fascinating what's been happening with the white house over the past several days. the president saying it's a

humanitarian mission and then we announce that we're going to help the kurds. then he announces he's going to bomb. it continues to grow. it continues to expand. is there an increasing understanding inside the white house of just how dangerous isis is, not only that region but to the world? >> well, i think if they didn't know before, certainly that video yesterday reinforced it. it was grisly. it's brutal. assuming it's verified by the intelligence agencies, it's a great tragedy for the family of james foley who only went there to record what was happening and tell people around the world. obviously this is a white house that doesn't want to find itself in mission creep. it doesn't want to get dragged back into a war that's not, in their view, america's. there a sense that isis representing a greater threat than we've seen in a while. with this new government in bagdad, designated prime minister abadie, their hope is they can work with the government in the way they

haven't been able to with maliki's government before, to counter the isis threat. you do see a little more robust action on the part of the americans beyond simply the immediate humanitarian crisis we were talking about in mount sinjar last week. >> peter baker, thank you very much. here with us now, david carr who wrote over the weekend about social media's role in the ferguson story. he wrote in part this, the web crackled with one story and one story only. it wasn't long before cable news made adjustments and a huge story, a militarized response to a mostly non-violent exercise in free speech took center stage. for that you can thank twitter which is often derided as a platform for realities, but has become much more than that in the age of always-on information. nothing good was happening in ferguson until it became a hash tag. >> david carr, thank you for being here. we always love having you on. we've heard stories going back to 2004 in ukraine, the orange

revolution, about how texting got people together and now we're hearing it happening, i guess iran 2009. what happened here in ferguson, when that hash tag got in front of ferguson, you say the bag things that were happening at least started to slow down a bit. >> i think part of the reason it was a big story on twitter is the people were trying to do their job, as we do, with cameras and crews who were getting pushed out. it fell on the people with phones in their hand to make it happen. it's a story -- it's a deep and complicated story, right? when you see people in militarized clothing pointing sniper rifles at american civilians, that's really all you sort of need to know about what's going on in terms of how big of a deal it is, right? that's why twitter was a good place for it. >> talk about how social media

in general has grown over the past -- for things like this, where it actually bends the arc of the story. >> i think what happens is, when you look at twitter, there's people represented on twitter that aren't represented in your average network audience. twitter index is in the black community in the way that mainstream television doesn't, so it offers a visibility and window into that community. the other thing is it has a bias toward media. we're all, of course, talking to each other and sending notes to each other. that thunder dome, that echo tends to making stories mushroom very, very quickly. >> there's always an underbelly with every technology. the way traditional media uses twitter almost defeats democratization of it.

you read "the post" they highlight six tweets. they may not be representative. there's an irony that there's still this basically hom mojization or certainly editing. >> we thought there would be a thousand flowers, but it's still the same oak trees standing there. i think a lot of other media tends to take a redakive approach to twitter. on wednesday night i know you and probably joe, mika, you just sat there and watched the waterfall come in. news is these days a list oftentimes. people talk about watching things on twitter because things were moving so quickly. a lot of it was carrying images. it was the best place to see what was going on. yes in the morning there was a distill asian of it and people have applied editorial practices

to it. but in realtime it was quite something to behold. >> and different emotions and points of view fell into that waterfall in a way that in the mainstream media sometimes you get more of a canned look. >> it's weird, isn't it, that some something 140 characters and it can have that much emotional content. >> david carr, thank you so much. >> i love david carr. >> you can read his latest peeft on new yorktimes.com. coming up, mark begich finally has an opponent to face off. >> is it that joe miller guy? >> we'll find out. if a picture is worth 1,000 words, you won't want to miss what we have to say about rick prry's mug shot. they did a mug got. we'll be right back. vo: this is the summer.

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♪ . >> 30 past the hour. political -- >> i didn't see that coming. news out of alaska, dan sullivan was declared the winner of the state's republican senate primary. the former state attorney general was considered the front-runner and backed by many establishment republicans. with more than 80% of precincts

reporting, sullivan had about 40% of the vote. >> there's that joe miller guy. joe miller, of course, was the guy that won the nomination back four years ago, murkowski beat him as an independent. he's probably piss ed off this morning, jim vandehei. talked about possibly running as an independent. do you think he's going to run as an independent and do unto the republican party as the republican party did unto him? >> they did everything they could do to put themselves in a position to win back the senate. it doesn't mean they'll win the senate. >> is this another tea party loss? would this be considered a tea party loss? why am i asking you. >> kasie hunt is here. >> so is this another -- would this be considered by the alaskan tea party as another loss for the tea party? >> in some ways, yes.

in some ways this has just become a very, very personal thing for joe miller. it's a little bit about the tea party and a lot about the fact that he felt completely abandoned by republicans who backed murkowski when he won the nomination. >> thhe personally knows karl re which is why his group has gone so much into him. he worked for condi rice at the state department. they got so into him because they were worried about a joe miller -- >> can you queue up the theme song for "the empire strikes." astounding what the republican establishment has done this year. i don't know what's going to happen in the senate, but in the republican party, they have owned this election cycle. >> just by not being stupid. they basically got engaged,

figure out who is the most electable candidate. spent money early, were really aggressive. >> you act as if just not being stupid is not a huge achievement for our republican party. we would be walking around in pajamas and slippers in renault. >> stupid in 2010 and got it right in 2012. the iowa camp explained that. the question i have about the fall, in this process, in this march of the empire striking back, joe, do you see that base staying with the party? have they come with the conclusion it is better to win with as opposed to win with principle? >> you understand this better than anyone because of the positions you've had. it's not like these guys are squishy moderates. they're really, really

conservative people. better at getting really conservative people that can be backed by the establishment. we're not talking about the rise of moderates. talking about the rise of super, duper -- >> two other stories. governor rick perry is speaking out after spending time at an austin courthouse where he was booked on a pair of felony corruption charges. >> i'm going to fight this injustice with every fiber of my being and we will prevail. the actions that i took were lawful, they were legal and they were proper. this indictment is fundamentally a political act that seeks to achieve at the courthouse what could not be achieved at the ballot box. >> i'll tell you what, unless there's something -- by the way, that is a good looking man. i'm serious. i could pay annie liebowitz to

take my picture and rick perry's courthouse shot is better than mine. >> on the cover of "time" magazine. >> it's great stuff. jim vandehei, unless i'm missing something, this is one of the greatest abuses of power on the national level i have seen. this is -- >> not on rick perry's part. >> not on rick perry's part. this office in austin, texas, that does this. they did it to tom delay and now doing it to rick perry. tom delay i don't know. that shag carpet is deep. i don't know what's in that shag carpet. but kay bailey hutchison, that was a scam. this rick perry indictment is a scam. as i said before, ronald reagan, according to the prosecutor in austin, texas, ronald reagan throwing the budget down and say

if you -- i will veto this bill. that's like a criminal offense. can i ask who is going to indict this guy who is indicting other people for political reasons? who is going to investigate this? this is a runaway beer truck in the austin prosecutor's office. it's disgraceful in my opinion. >> when you have "the new york times" editorial board going to the defense of rick perry, you know something is up. it makes perry bigger when i don't think he's a legitimate contender for 2016. he gets way too much coverage, more than he deserves. there's parts of his campaign last time around that were really laughable. >> i think he's a lot better this year than he was -- >> you already have republicans saying john mccain saying this indictment is going to help rick perry because it's going to motivate people who are angry because they think he's politically targeted.

>> the strategy is so interesting. they decided he's going to take this head on. >> mika, what's really troubling is the fact, we talked to paul ryan about impeachment. some republicans talk about impeaching barack obama, a small number, but they're stupid when they do. that's taking politics to a bad level. the next level would be, you know, this, where you're actually talking about putting somebody in jail for up to 99 years for not a veto, for a public veto threat. you talk about a kangaroo court in austin, texas, this is disgraceful. >> nobody enjoys a mugshot more than this guy, rick perry. when you take a look at that picture, keep in mind he really did enjoy it. right after the mugshot he went and got ice cream. not joking. >> good for him. good for him. listen, we have been around this

table, mika, and we have been tougher on rick perry around this table than probably anybody in american media. >> i'm guilty. very tough. >> the very mention of my name, there were news reports made his wife gasp. >> very upset with you. >> no, she's not. we're okay now. but this is a disgray. this comes from a guy that beat him up more than anybody else three years ago. i hope it helps him. >> all right. speaking of 2016, hillary clinton heads to iowa to speak at the annual state fry next month. >> what is a steak fry? do they fry their steaks? >> lots of butter. >> i'm sure it's delicious. >> i love butter and it's good for you, too. >> i'm sure if i went to a steak fry, i wouldn't have done so without serious damage. >> i don't grill a lot, there's a lot of butter. >> okay.

stop. the event is becoming a must-visit for democratic presidential hopefuls. hillary heads to the caucus state in a weaker position. derrick hits has the numbers in the mojo poling place. >> some political pundits continue to act as if hillary clinton is a lock as our next commander in chief should she decide to run, a look at the polls shows her image has significantly been damaged since leaving the state department. whether the change in numbers were different by comments that she and bill were dead broke after leaving the white house or that she's racked up millions in speaking fees or something in between. one thing is certain, every major national poll show america's views of hillary clinton heading in the wrong direction. the nbc "wall street journal" shows a net negative 24-point swing in voters' positive to negative view of her. with quinnipiac showing a similar swing of 22 points in the wrong direction. cnn, orc, 17 points and gallop,

14: of the likely 2016 presidential campaigns, hillary clinton's remains the most promisi promising. if there's one thing these trends remind us, there's no such thing as a sure thing in politics. guys, back to you. >> thank you, derrick. she could afford to lose 24 points. >> she cannot afford to lose another 24, that's correct. >> are you surprised at how badly she's managed the past three months during the book tour? >> i am and i'm not. i think the expectations were high that we'd see a different hillary. we're seeing the same hillary in the same hillary operation. i think when she broke with the president in that interview, it's going to hurt her. i think it plays to what everyone dislikes about the clintons, that everything is political, everything is calculation. she won't get the benefit of breaking with the president. she's always going to look cold and calculating. she'll have to wrestle with that when she's in iowa because she's undoubtedly running.

>> kasie hunt, thank you very much. jim stay with us. up next, can bob mcdonnell be saved? his sister maureen is making the case against his wife. >> family feud here. it's getting ugly. this is unbelievable what's going on in the courthouse. this family is tearing each other apart. >> all that and much more straight ahead on "morning joe."

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jim vandehei, it's crazy. >> a fantastic story. >> you say fantastic. >> in a sick way. like the harlequin romance noveling. >> leaning on his family to avoid conviction in a federal corruption trial. the governor's sister who shares the same name as his wife testified the former first lady could be manipulative, deceptive and a bully. she said in court, there are two sides to mauer lean. you're not sure which one you're going to get. which one will show up. the governor's sister also tried to help the couple's case by reenforcing their narrative, trying to demonstrate that the marriage was in such tatters, the couple couldn't have conspire for gifts and loans. she gave example of how the govern governor out of the loop on a

$50,000 check from donny williams. when she called her brother to discuss it, she said she could hear the first lady in the background angry that she called him about it. another witness testified the former first lady was so difficult, her staff once threatened to quit en masse, like all of them at once, leave. here with us from washington, columnist for "the washington post," bob mccartney who has been following the case since the beginning. >> bob, this is some ugly stuff, if you're having to watch day in and day out. it certainly does paint a picture, the testimony, the stories we've heard have to paint a picture of a husband with a wife that seemed to be completely out of control. >> what do you think is really going on here? >> i think maureen mcdonnell is a bit unstable, and i think -- >> a bit. >> a bit unstable, a bit

manipulative, a bit deceptive. she initiated most of this, most of the bad stuff that they're in trouble for, but i think that bob mcdonnell went along with a lot of it based on the evidence that we know by the end, and that's why he's in trouble. the strategy clearly of the defense is to demonize maureen mcdonnell, the first lady, using, in part, the testimony of maureen mcdonnell, the governor's sister and basically put it all on her and portrayed bob mcdonnell as innocent, honest guy trying to do the right thing and the wife was doing all this stuff behind his back. a fair amount of it was done behind his back, but we know for sure that he was involved in some of the negotiations over

the loans, and that certainly he knew about the vacations that he went on that johnny williams, the businessman, paid for. >> the parts he did know about, his wife being interested in leaving and having an affair with johnny williams. >> this is boys behaving badly. the governor of virginia behaving badly, johnny williams behaving badly. this is woman versus woman now. do you think johnny williams was adopting them because he wanted to? he was buying access. >> i don't see that the governor was an active participant? >> when he held up the row lex and smiled at the camera? this is from my husband that i got for my 40th birthday.

when the governor held up his rolex -- i don't know. let's get back to the case at hand here. bob, let me ask you, though, as we talk about this, let's talk about the watch, the daughter's wedding. the governor had to know that there were funds coming in from johnny williams. they were using this guy like an atm machine and there was no real deal on the back end to pay it back. >> the governor definitely knew about the $15,000 to pay for the catering for his daughter's wedding. now, the defense argument is that that was a gift to the kid -- a gift to the young happy couple and not to the governor. but the governor was very much involved with it. the checks actually went -- at least one of the checks went to maureen, maureen the first lady, not maureen the sister. there's some confusion about

whether he knew, bob mcdonnell knew that the money for the rolex came from johnny williams, senior. >> real quickly, a very important point to clear up. we said from the very beginning, it looks sleazy. it's legal in the state of virginia. as far as the federal charges go, does it have to be a quid pro quo that's proven? >> yes. you have to prove -- when bob mcdonnell took the money from johnny williams, that he had the intent to do something for him, to do something for johnny williams, and they did do stuff for johnny williams, senior. there's a question about whether they did more than they normally would have done for any businessman who was trying to promote his products in virginia. >> let me say, mika, that is a high, high bar ha the prosecutor has to meet. in there, i don't know how the prosecutor

will meet that. >> but that intent for pay back, because if they had a payment schedule to pay back those loans works that set the dynamic up properly to prove that the governor had intent to pay him back and was not going give some favor for the cash? >> again, this just blows my mind that anybody would do this, but as far as virginia law goes, they don't have to pay back. they have to prove that quid pro quo. you helped my daughter so in return i'm going to help you get your vitamins or whatever. and i just think it's getting murkier and murkier. it's going to be very hard for the prosecutor. at the end of the day, bob mcdonnell is broke because of it. we'll tell you about the time julia louis-dreyfus walked into a pawn shop to find the stars of "breaking bad." and things are getting hollyweird. that's ahead on "morning joe." t. and "minus" our expenses.

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this weekend, senator john mccain, we love him, he's been on the show a bunch of times, he attended a benefit concert in the hamptons. at one point he actually went on stage and did the robot. ♪

>> the robots were like oh, god, is that what we looked like? >> i think he was good. i'm impressed. >> so, thomas, you think this next piece of video is pretty amazing -- is a scam. >> it's a little too convenient. >> what do you mean? >> this is a motorcycle crash that happened in russia, all captured on film. >> it's terrible. it's horrible. >> you're going to see this car on the right, switches over lanes aggressively to the left. at that very moment, motorcycle crash. flips up and lands on top like a cat, right on the rooftop. that, and lands right on top and the camera is there to capture it. >> it is in russiana, right? >> it is in russia. >> oh, my god, that's amazing. >> does a flip over and lands on top. >> people didn't think putin could do it. >> it's vladimir putin. >> are you saying that this

didn't really happen, there's that green screen technology or are you saying this is an ak robot and they practiced thousands of times? >> was that a cross that flew on the screen on the left-hand side? what was that? watch on the left-hand side after the car comes over, watch on the left corner, a cross? >> what was it? >> i don't know, it's a mystery. another sighting. >> all right, coming up at the top of the hour, chris christie delivers a new jersey smackdown. >> oh, my god, did you see this? >> on one of his own constituents? >> angry man. >> he's not an angry man, he cares. he's passionate. he loves. maybe a little too much. plus eric holder heads to ferguson, missouri, as the federal government prepares to take on the crisis in that city. we go live to a very tense ferguson. all of that and much more when "morning joe" returns. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business.

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no justice, no peace. >> we want the world to see that st. louis knows how to take care of business. >> now community leaders are stepping in to try to persuade the most radicalized elements to leave the streets. >> this is our city. we take control of our community. >> what will bring peace to the streets of ferguson. >> justice. >> hands up. >> don't shoot. >> an army that has put the islamic state to flight.

today a sign they can be defeated. >> awful tragic news from overseas, it's about an american journalist named james foley. >> executed. beheaded by isis. >> terrorists go on to threaten the life of another american if president obama doesn't end u.s. air strikes in iraq. >> perry, perry, perry. >> i reported to the county authorities a few minutes ago. >> texas governor rick perry was fingerprinted, photographed and booked on two felony charges of abusing power. >> he made it clear he sees the charges against him as a political vendetta. >> i'm going to fight this injustice with every fiber of my being, and we will prevail. >> i thought i heard that bruce asked that none of his music was played at your events because he didn't believe in your politics. >> no, never did that. i know him and you're wrong. and i understand you're expressing your politics. don't put it in mr. springsteen's mouth, put it in yours. >> welcome back to "morning

joe." it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. back on set we have donny deutsch, michael steele and in washington christina bellantoni. they did the mug shot of rick perry. speaking of governors. >> did he smile? >> he takes a good mug shot. >> he had a nice smile. >> look at him. he's a didngood-looking guy. >> all right. >> let me ask you about mr. springsteen and mr. christie. what did you think? >> i think the debate might have gone on a little long but i'm used to people who go on long. it's no problem. >> maybe that's why i related to him so well. but she kept asking questions and as a reporter, she decided she was going to get into a debate. she had her springsteen information wrong. then she started moving on to other questions and he's right. if they want to hear the reporter, then the reporter should hold a town hall meeting

and we'll see how many people go to that town hall meeting. they're there to hear chris christ christie. was that a reporter or constituent? >> i think it was a constituent. >> same with the constituent. if they want a debate, the constituent can hold her own town hall meeting. >> yeah. >> listen, i would much rather this happen than have them cowering in the corner. >> but there's something in between. he just comes across as an obnoxious pugilistic bully. >> you know what he looks like -- >> there's a way to push back and move on. we've seen thousands of politicians say that's not acceptable, next question. >> i've got to say no disrespect to these two people who i know personally and like personally, but in the age of hillary clinton and jeb bush, a lot of people want to see this. in an age where washington,

d.c., is stuck in the mud and everybody has canned responses and nobody shows their real emotions and everything you say is market tested and poll driven, that breaks through. and that's why chris christie worked before and i think that's why if the investigations all go all right for him, i think that's -- >> i think that's why we liked him from the get-go is that he definitely broke away from the mold. kind of put a real -- and not all of it was pretty but he put himself out there in every way, in a very honest way, in a way that seemed authentic. >> willie is -- >> the authentic aspect is what resonates with people. >> but we want to get to the left wing, i'd go out to the hamptons in my $100 million mansion kind of guy, maybe that's not appealing. >> i thought you wanted to come

out? >> i am! >> it's your house, you've got to pat. i can ride in your wake. >> he tortures me wake in and week out about the hamptons. then hey, man, i'm going to be out there this weekend. >> you know why we're doing this because sweet little louis is getting married -- >> i'm going to stay at gatsby's mansion. but is it mick that lives in the side house? i'm like mick. i'll go there and watch you do all of this profane stuff and just sit there. and then i go back to my shack. >> you'll be in awe. >> you should see the green light. it's like a disco strobe. >> and joe will be dancing. >> techno music. >> going like this. >> it's not what gatsby looked like at the end of the buchanans. doc, you're a jersey boy.

when they want to know what kids are thinking on the streets of new jersey, they ask willie geist. what do you think? >> first of all, i think it's an odd topic to have a public debate about. whether or not bruce springsteen likes you. to pick that fight is weird. i don't think it's as unanimously good as you think it is in new jersey. if you talk to people, they like the honesty and that kind of stuff, but when they look at some of the other things he does, they don't always love it. but that said, his numbers are pretty good for a guy who's been through a scandal, whether you think it's a big deal or not. i think what's important is whether or not that plays outside new jersey. >> i can't even -- we've got a lot of news to cover. isis continues to just be a dark cloud that covers the middle east. i can't even show -- >> please don't. >> i can't even show the front of "the new york post," but "the daily news" has a shot of just

these -- they are absolute savages. i don't know what they think they're proving, but all they're doing is they're just -- they're just setting themselves up to be killed, all of them. i mean you know what, everybody that acts that way, it never ends well for them when you do that to the united states. it just doesn't. you can ask. where's osama bin laden right now? i hope he enjoyed his day in the sun. where's saddam hussein right now? i hope he enjoyed it. it never ends well. it's not going to end well for isis. and you know what, i will say this again, thank you, president obama, for going against your base. this is a scourge that needs to be wiped out of the middle east. i say that with great trepidation after supporting the first gulf war, like about 70% of americans. that was, we found out later, an

optional war. this, this fight against isis, there's nothing option a.m. about it. >> there's no option. >> because they are a scourge that will continue to spread and they will find their way to america's doorstep. the reason i said we should get out of afghanistan four years ago is because the taliban didn't want to blow up buildings in the united states. these people, they want to kill us all. and if they stay in iraq and they get in control of oil field and they get money and they get weapons, they will come to us and kill as many of us as quickly as they can. this is something that the president can't ignore and i would like the republicans to salute him for stepping forward and doing what he's done over the past week or two. we can all go back and criticize what he's done and then democrats can criticize what we republicans have done and we get nowhere. >> and i think going against the base is something that some politicians have a lot of fear about, and so that's commendable

for you to say. all right, the big story here in the united states, attorney general eric holder will be in ferguson, missouri, 11 days after the shooting of a black teenager. there were tense moments overnight after calm for most of the day. peaceful protesters could be heard screaming not tonight, as water and glass bottles were thrown at police. 47 people were arrested, but state highway patrol captain ron johnson is hopeful the violence may be declining. >> i think that turning point was made by the clergy, the activists, the volunteers and the men and women of law enforcement partner together to make a difference. but also those citizens who took heed to what we talked about last night, not allowing criminals to mass themselves in a peaceful protest. they protested early and went home early and allowed us a better visual look of those

criminals and agitators that are roaming the streets for their own agenda. >> can you say the end of that clip again. >> he's got to work around the clock. >> you've got one african-american, police captain, i see white faces back there. >> only three out of 53 officers. >> i know. i'm just saying now, again, it shouldn't be about race but guess what, it's about race. this is about race. i may be -- i just -- i don't know. >> but that speaks to the problem that that community has. >> the problem in ferguson, exactly. >> all right. let's go to ferguson. nbc news correspondent craig melvin has been on the ground for several days now. craig, good morning. it's good to see you. we hear, i guess, a relatively good night last night but we've heard that before so we're a little leery of celebrating that. what is the mood on the ground there and what do you think now that you've been there a couple of days breaks this and gets

people out of the streets and brings the peace? >> reporter: you know, that's a good question, willie. everyone seems to be in pretty much universal agreement that the one thing that would probably empty these streets fairly quickly is if there was some sort of indictment, some charges brought against that officer. of course as you know the grand jury convening at 9:00 this morning to start hearing some evidence. it was very interesting, as you just heard there. 47 arrests last night, no molotov cocktails, no shooting, no tear gas used. there was some pepper spray used. i think you could see that in one of the clips played there, but it was calmer. the crowd itself, i can tell you, was smaller last night than it had been. there was also -- there also seemed to be a shift in police strategy. captain johnson told me earlier in the day that we might see this and we did in fact see it last night. in previous nights you saw those officers in riot gear wearing helmets, shields out, shoulder

to shoulder, short of a very offensive position. last night you did not see that, you saw smaller groups of officers and they were mingering with these smaller groups of protesters that were being forced to make that lap around the main drag here in ferguson. we also saw those military-style vehicles. in previous nights they had been right smack in the middle of the street in sort of an offensive position. they would say a defensive position, but nonetheless an intimidating position. last night those vehicles were not in the middle of the street, they were on the side as well. so there are a number of folks who have said to me last night that little things like that did in fact make a difference. of course as you know captain johnson urged the peaceful protesters not to come out last night, to do their protesting in the day. and by all accounts it looks like a lot of those protesters did just that. >> all right. speaking with msnbc's tamron

hall, ferguson mayor james knowles looked to downplay suggestions of racial tension within the community. take a look. >> there is not a racial divide in the city of ferguson. >> according to who? is that your perspective or do you believe that is the perspective of african-americans in your community? >> that is the perspective of all residents in our city, absolutely. >> have you been watching the news? because there are people, sir, and please with all due respect, there are people on air on any network, even if you don't watch this one, who disagree who love there. so i'm asking, and again with all due respect, are you listening to them? >> absolutely. there's 22,000 residents in our community. this has affected about a half mile strip of street in our community. the rest of our community, the rest of the african-americans in our community are going about their daily lives, going to our businesses, walking their dog, going to our neighborhood watch meetings. >> that's kind of saying like 9/11 taking cameras to the upper

east side or the upper west side. look at new york, new york is fine. what's wrong with new york? >> my god, that's perfect. yes. >> what are you talking about? it's just a small group of buildings down at the tip of the island. the guy is clueless right there. >> for days -- he is absolutely clueless. for days people have been asking where is the political leadership because they hadn't seen the mayor and heard members of the city council. he comes out on air and says that? not only is he clueless, he's not credible. you understand more fundamentally why folks in that community are pissed off right now because he's totally out of touch with what's going on. >> he looks like he just came back from vacation and has no idea what's going on. there's three out of 53 members of the police force, his police force, right, that are black. >> not only that, mika, out of 53 in a city that's 70% african-american. >> how do you let that happen when you're hiring and you're trying to figure out a force that really represents the community? >> i know how you let that

happen. you're racially insensitive and that creates a racial divide. >> and you don't think there's a problem. >> and then to make matters worse, you say there's not a problem. >> right. and you think because you say it that that means it's the rule of law because you are clueless. >> that's right. >> and you're not self aware. >> so i don't know if this guy knows, willie, but even the egyptian government is chastising him for what's going on in ferguson. if the generals in egypt are criticizing you, you have a problem. >> the ayatollah in iran are tweeting about ferguson, missouri. it's not a good position to be in. >> there are things that happened in the moments after this young man was killed that have traumatized that area of town, that whole town. he was left lying in the streets for hours. he was not covered up. and there were children -- there were people so stunned at what they were seeing, they were videotaping it because they didn't know what else to do and they were traumatized that they saw this young man get gunned

down and then he laid there in the middle of the street, not surrounded, not covered. they didn't put cars -- they said they didn't want to tamper with the scene? well, my god, they certainly didn't tamper with the scene. they left the scene there for everyone to see to be traumatized for hours. >> it's the same thing in the trayvon case. the parents weren't even notified that he was in the morgue for a couple of days. again, the game around this set is what if a republican president did this? in these cases, you just have to ask, what if it was a white 18-year-old kid shot in the middle of a suburban neighborhood. >> they would cover it up, they would surround it. >> it's the same questions i asked every day during hurricane katrina. you know, if this had happened in an exclusive suburb of dallas, texas, would the president be looking down from

30,000 feet or walking around shaking hands? it's the same thing here. it's like if this had happened in a white neighborhood. >> and it continues to stress the black community in particular in these areas that are suddenly thrust into this reality again. for them it's every day. this is an everyday occurrence. for the mayor to sit there and act like there's no problem, it's amazing. still ahead on "morning joe," the "breaking bad" boys reunite as we take a trip to hollyweird. plus pat o'brien will join us. >> pat o'brien is coming back. >> we will discuss the highs and lows of a remarkable career and how he overcame several stints in rehab. also, we'll have more with congressman paul ryan. up next, a scary scene in california when a car chase involving a buick sedan comes to a crashing halt. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> speaking of car wrecks, right? well, good morning, everyone.

we watched epic rains in arizona yesterday and now we move on to this heat wave. it's moving from the west coast to the middle of the nation and soon to the southeast. along with it, we talk about humidity, because that's what's really going to be oppressive as we go throughout the week. when you add that to the temperature, the heat index will feel like 100 to 110 in many areas of the country. when you have dew points in the 60s, a little uncomfortable. when it's in the 70s, it's oppressive. that's what we have from dallas all the way through atlanta and florida. already in the 80s. soon it will be into the 90s with that heat index going over 100. heat warning in effect for the st. louis area the next couple of days, possibly into the weekend. heat advisories all the way down through memphis. in memphis this weekend it will be very hot, near 99 degrees. so it's hot across the country. the cooler spots, the great lakes are still beautiful in the northeast. going into next week the first item to watch in the tropics for a while, we're going to be watching a tropical disturbance heading over the caribbean the next couple of days and a week

from now heading into the gulf of mexico. the million dollar question is will it develop? will we be dealing with a tropical storm or hurricane heading for the u.s.? it's all a possibility and we'll watch that closely in the days ahead. we leave you with a really nice shot of washington, d.c. some beams of sunlight coming down to the surface. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪hey! i found a happy space somewhere to call our own♪ ♪a happy little place and it all starts with you♪ ♪whoa-oh-oh-oh, all this goodness...♪ after-school snacking should be fun and nutritious which is why we put whole grains first in every general mills big g cereal what matters most should always come first general mills.

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take a look at the morning papers. "the arizona republic" heavy rains triggered massive flooding in phoenix.

over 5 inches of rain has fallen in areas north of the city, shutting down roads and highways, rising waters and crippling neighborhoods, washing through mobile homes, trapping rez dments cars. >> look at that. >> there's more rain on the way later this week. so far no life threatening injuries have been reported. this from "the sacramento bee." there's a wildfire burning near yosemite in california. so far the fire has scorched nearly 3300 acres and destroyed eight structures. officials are saying the blaze is 35% contained and more than 1,000 people have been cleared to get back to their homes. the fire began on monday, the 16th, miles from a park distance. "the guardian," a study says readers absorb less reading on ereaders such as a kindle or ipad. >> do you find that? >> i do. this is so interesting. according to research out of

norway, those reading a paperback retained more aspects of the story when tested on plot points and character comprehension. scientists say, i believe this, holding an actual book means the reader is able to chart their progress as they physically turn pages while holding an e-reader can be less gratifying. i think we were just working with my daughter yesterday on study skills and she finds that writing notes down as opposed to typing, and i do as well. i think the same applies to reading. you've got to hold the book. >> i've got a pretty good memory but as far as studying goes with things i didn't want to absorb, i just had to sit there and write it. i'd read it, i'd write it, i'd tear it apart. >> that makes sense. there's some less of a connection there. "the san francisco chronicle," surveillance footage emerged showing the terrifying moments when a car crashed in sausalito, yesterday. the driver was being pursued

following a domestic violence incident. while trying to elude police, he lost control of the car, hopped a car and crashed into a cafe where people were eating outside. the suspect attempted to flee on foot but was chased down and arrested. three people were treated for nonlife-threatening injuries. 50 years after lbj launched this nation's war on poverty and congre congressman paul ryan says poverty is winning now. more from our fascinating conversation with the wisconsin republican as he tries to set the way forward. that's his new book. plus the great pat o'brien is here and we'll get his take on our important hollyweird report. yes, pat will chime in on that. >> he's got a great book we are going to talk about. [ woman ] the cadillac summer collection is here. ♪ ♪

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30 past. congressman paul ryan is putting a face on his push to overhaul the nation's regulations and he says it's america's poor who can benefit the most from new policies. we spoke to the budget chairman just a short time ago on "morning joe." >> we've got a lot to talk about here and i want to get to as much as we can and certainly want to talk about the book. but first let's talk about ferguson, which actually feeds right into your book. we were having a conversation yesterday about the frustration of covering ferguson and everybody is just covering what happened the past week. we have got to look at what's

happened the past 50 years. these people have been left behind. they have been abandoned. people have -- let's just try to pass this program, let's just try to pass that program and we're not guilty anymore of the lives that they live. they are like abandoned. >> that's right. isolated. >> they're on an island. >> i try not to inject my personal policy preferences onto a tragedy. so i think just out of respect for the brown family, for the community, it's important as policy makers not to say look at what's happening, therefore, do what i think should be done. i think it's important out of respect not to do that. having said all of that, i talk about in this book and i put out a plan a number of weeks ago, we have got to re-engage with the poor in america. we are in the 50th anniversary on the war on poverty and poverty is winning. and so let's think about how to measure success instead of on inputs, how many dollars are we spending, but how are we getting people out of poverty. >> how do we engage when

americans hear the republicans say let's cut this program or let's cut that program. >> one of the reasons why i wrote this book, if you don't like the direction policy is heading right now, if you don't like the governing philosophy, what would we do differently? i think the country is on the wrong track. a lot of people agree with me. not everybody, but a lot do. so i wrote this to say here is the governing philosophy and the solutions for renewing the american idea which is basically the condition of your birth doesn't determine the outcome of your life. >> back to my question, does that require a slashing of spending for the type of programs that keep a lot of these people that we're seeing on tv alive? keep food on their kids' table? >> the entire premise of that question presupposes that these programs are all just great and it's just a matter of doing more of the same or not. >> no, i don't presuppose that but i also know that we can't just tomorrow pass a budget that's going to cut aid off -- >> no, that's right. >> for the disadvantaged. >> but you voted for a

bipartisan bill in 1996, welfare reform, that did more to reduce child poverty than any reform in the modern era. what i'm saying is let's rethink it like that. let's take the other welfare programs that have not been reformed and customize them to a person's individual specific needs so that we can work on fighting poverty, eye to eye, and back up the community. one of the problems in the war on poverty is we've had this federal government intervention that has told the common taxpayer this is government's responsibility, it's not yours, and we've isolated the poor. we've isolated people in our communities. i think we need to re-engage that. number one. number two, let's reform our welfare program so they're always pointed toward getting able-bodied people into the workforce. we talk about high tax rates in america. the highest arguably is the single mom making $20,000 to $40,000 who makes a decision to go to work and ends up losing more benefits than what she gets getting a paycheck and facing high marginal tax rates. so there's a lot of room for reform and clearly dialogue.

>> congressman, you know the cartoon version of you that's put out by your critics, by democrats, by many progressives that all you want to do is cut, cut, cut, you want to throw old people out on the street, you want to throw poor people out on the street. how do you answer that? what would you do specifically to help disadvantaged people. >> first of all, i'd say read my book. honestly i talk about a different type of governing philosophy and a different agenda to reconnect people with the american idea, especially those who have fallen away from it, who don't think it's there for them in their communities. what i proposed in a number of things are rethinking the way we fight poverty and reintegrating civil society, local communities and charities along with federal resources to get aid that's customized to focus on getting able-bodied people to work and having a safety net that's resilient for those who cannot help themselves. one of the problems we have in america is we are going bankrupt. we have a debt crisis that's on the horizon and that puts the safety net in jeopardy. other problem is we're not having the economic growth and

economic opportunity. we don't have the healthy economy we need to get people back to work so a lot of reforms there. but with specific focus on poverty, there are people in america who are doing amazing things overcoming poverty, helping people do so. i talk about a lot of them in my book but i also talk about an agenda that backs that up so we can do more of those things. >> part of our conversation this morning with congressman paul ryan. see the full discussion on our website, mojoe.msnbc.com. his book was called "the way forward." it's time for reques"busine before the bell" with brian sullivan. how are the markets looking, brian? >> they have been looking strong. a lot of viewers are not day traders but they might have a 401(k) or pension plan. things have been pretty doggone good. the s&p is less than half a percent off its all-time high. i tweeted this out yesterday,

joe. apple's market cap is nearly $600 billion. that is the value of every nfl, nhl, cable team combined six times over. >> mika, you think you may be going back to an iphone? you've tried to get away from it. do you think you may be going back? >> come back. >> i was one of the latest adapters and i'm a happy guy. >> you're happy? >> you moved from it? >> from a blackberry to it. >> you took a while. >> i'm a late adapter. >> when are you leaving the 8 track? >> i just want to make sure everything is okay. i let the other 200 million people graze first. >> i'm old school. >> by the way, speaking of old school and music, this is completely unrelated and unplanned, but did you know vinyl album sales are up like 600% over the last five years? people are going back to vinyl.

i use lps the ahome. the sound quality is much deeper. i know, joe, you're a musician. there's notes in there you forget you don't hear on mp3s. >> john heilemann, of course, is an audio file and listens to nothing but records. >> while walking down the street he listens to records. it's amazing. >> it's kind of crazy. >> i just picture him eating cheetos in his underwear just playing the lps. >> that's your problem. please don't thrust your problems on the rest of us, donny. so let's talk about really quickly snap chat. >> i snap chat with my daughter. please snap chat me, amelia. >> you say ads and news are coming? >> 30 million snap chat users, mostly teens, it disappears, but in november something called snap chat discovery will roll out which will put ads and news

in your feed. listen, mika, i know you've got teenagers, joe, you do too -- >> she's snap chatting with one right now. >> what about snap chat, who's in your child's dorm room? >> you've got to give the warning about snap chat, though. >> what's the warning, donny? >> there's ways you think you're sending something in picture that disappears. >> you can take a picture. >> so just be careful. >> you should have figured that out. the pictures are already out there. >> my attorney says you haven't heard the whole story yet. >> cease and desist. >> still ahead -- >> oh, boy. oh, boy. >> this guy is great. he's back. >> he's spelling it right! good god, i've never seen that happen. he once lived a lavish lifestyle high rolling with celebrities and politicians. we'll talk about what happened next, when pat o'brien joins us with his new memoir. "morning joe" we'll be right back. you owned your car for four years.

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joining us now, famed sports and entertainment broadcaster pat o'brien. also a former student of my father's. >> and he was a good teacher. >> oh, was he? some say he was a little scary. >> how smart do you have to be? >> what did you get? >> from him? >> i learned how to balance my checkbook. >> that's good. >> he didn't give you an "a," did he? >> no. it was more about theory with him. but when i went to school for advanced and national studies, your father was there, henry kissinger would come in and talk and we had this incredible group of professors. it's great. we used to smoke hash in the library and do our finals. wolf blitzer was my classmate. >> so let's talk about your incredible life. you go through the book, extraordinary, i mean

extraordinary arc from the dakotas to the center of hollywood and fame and stardom. and yet the last picture you show after showing pictures with mccartney and ringo and mick jagger, you lying on a carpet. you say it's a perfect metaphor for your life. your, quote, emotional suicide. >> that's what it was. i had a very big life, i still do and plan on still having one. but a very blessed life, especially from that side of the tracks. abe lincoln poor in south dakota. and to get out of there and come up through the ranks. but part of my alcoholism was that my life was so big, i started believing every lie i was telling myself, that i could drink like a normal person. who's drank with me here. you have, you have. >> do you remember drinking with me? i'm joking. >> please don't tell me. did something happen? >> no, nothing happened. >> i had a very big life. and the alcoholism kind of set in when i was 55.

and a disaster. but i'm fine now. i've done a lot -- when i was writing this book -- how do i address this panel. do i just say joe or mika? >> you just talk to whoever you want to talk to. >> mika, when i was writing this book -- >> that's the smart move. >> i couldn't believe how much i had done. this book should be called "i am freaking tired." we'll get to whatever you want to get to but the book has a lot of great sports stories. i worked a lot with harvey milk back in the day in the gay and lesbian movement, it was just called the homosexual movement back then, i think. and lots of stuff in there,ing through scandal and all kinds of things. >> alcoholism at 55, that sounds surprising because i think the theory is, oh, somebody has had a drinking problem, but at that stage of life to either acknowledge or become -- explain how at 55 versus 47. >> well, you're predetermined as an alcoholic, it's a disease, it's a brain disease and it's an allergy. i thought i was fine, but at 55,

and it had to do with where i was working too. i hated the people i was working with. i loathed the executive producer who was just a nightmare who would make me go stand next to my friends -- >> by the way, that's why mika and i are so sober. we love working. >> when heath ledger died, he was a friend of mine, go stand next to his coffin. but it was my fault. i was drinking too much. i was never drunk on the air. >> not that i can remember. i was drinking back then too. >> so this side of the table has had drinks with pat o'brien. >> some people can drink and some people can't and i'm one who can't. and now i've got -- there's an app for this. 50,954 without a drug or a drink. >> that's fantastic, right? the great thing about our time

intersecting, the thing about the b "the insider" is pat and lara were in new york and i was in l.a. most of the time you get this big roaring pitch from pat, like t.r., what have you got? then it would cut to me in l.a. pat and lara were in new york to give a more new york centric feel but so many people thought the world of pat o'brien, salt of the earth kind of guy. obviously there was tension behind the scenes with some of the higher-ups. it was a tough environment, certainly one for me coming from a news environment i wasn't prepared for. but mistakes happen. it's all about the recovery. in this book you talk about your recovery. why after the fourth rehab attempt were you able to get it right? >> what do you think about that, four rehabs. i used to make fun of people who were in two. the first one was at promises and it was after that -- whatever you call that scandal that i had which is so benign now. and creepy to talk about. but i will. the second one was at betty ford

where i got a nice suntan. a beautiful room. then i had the record at betty ford for relapsing and going back in and then i got sober at hazelton. when i got to hazelton, mika, i was almost dead. my last day of drinking, i drank 12 bottles of wine, 13 or 14, was found flat down on my beach near nantucket and was nearly dead. when i got there, they said to me you better listen this time because you're going to die. i was 130 -- 125 pounds, take 40 pounds off this body. i finally realized like dorothy in the wizard of oz, i could go home. robin williams was a friend that grabbed me and said welcome home, papa, you're in a safe place now. the safe place is in these rooms of recovery. you hear other stories and you get support from other people. >> i hope you stay safe.

>> i'm safe now, aren't i? >> you look great. >> stay that way. >> you look great. >> thank you for coming on. this book looks amazing. you get incredible stories about celebrities and that lifestyle, but i think a lot of people could be helped by this book as well. >> you need to come back more and just hang with us. >> the road to recovery is not perfect. >> it's also the number one health problem in the country. >> pat o'brien, stay with us because things are about to get weird, okay? not that they haven't already. >> really? >> hollyweird from paul rudd's makeover to cindy crawford's crusade and a "breaking bad" reunion. we'll be right back. and asked for less. there's a reason it's called an "all you can eat" buffet... and not a "have just a little" buffet. because what we all really want is more. now get our best ever pricing with the more everything plan. 1 gb of bonus data per month per line.

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it's time for a trip to hollyweird. louis. wait. what happened to louis? wait a minute. >> this is such a successful segment that i got rid of louis. >> oh, really? >> i just figured that was the way it works around here. >> if you look at your constitution, you're now in charge of hollyweird. >> so what are you going to say? >> let's take a trip to hollyweird. >> they have done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works every time. >> he's known for the loveable

and quirky comedy role. now paul rudd is said to become the latest hollywood star to get a tough guy superhero makeover. marvel released this picture of rudd as a super hero with the ability to shrink and increase his strength. he saves the world in july 2015. and celebrities have problems just like you and me, even celebrities who send them to posh malibu day school. here's a local parent voicing her concern. >> and the cock is still there. let's test it and it needs to be removed, let's remove the caulk. that doesn't seem like rocket science. >> cindy crawford is talking about the school's window caulking, which could contain dangerous chemicals. two of the biggest names in television -- >> death is so final as life, life is full of possibilities. >> now the two tv stars are on demand on stage joining forces for the 19th century comedy, "a

month in the country," a show that debuts in january. >> stalked, threatened and called taylor swift. >> speaking of the biggest names in tv, in this promo for next monday night's primetime emmy awards, ryan cranston is back in business. >> there it is. barely legal pawn. >> check out what happens when julia louis-dreyfus is a client. >> i'm here because i'm wondering if you might be interested in purchasing this. >> look at that. >> it's a best supporting actress in a comedy. >> supporting, it would be better if it was a leading, you know. >> hey hey, hey now, supporting is a huge honor. >> thank you. it is. >> cindy crawford -- >> what was that? >> watch out for that caulk. >> it was caulk. >> watch out for what?

>> the window caulking. >> caulking? >> billy bush, eat your heart out. i'm coming for you next. >> it's caulking. >> i'm really glad you didn't -- >> caulking. >> wait a second, so they were protesting the caulking in the windows. >> yes. >> because? >> well, she thought it should be tested. >> toxic caulk. >> dangerous chemicals. >> it's a dangerous conversation. >> why do you say hollyweird? something worries me about you washington -- >> we're new york now. >> i understand. when hollywood people come in here, you wear a tie, you get dressed up, you fawn -- not you -- >> no, i don't actually. >> people fawn all over them. >> look, do we look like fawners? we do not fawn over anybody. >> you're not fawners. >> he's not a fawner. >> i'm talking about chris matthews, my good friend. >> you can't name names. >> i love chris.

>> he loves that. >> no, i love chris. >> you know what, it's offensive that you call me like a washington insider. i'm all nantucket, baby, you know that. >> we are nantucket. that's our bumper sticker. >> we are nantucket. hey, this is an amazing book. we'll talk about it more and would love for you to do what you did at the beginning of this show where you would just come and stay with us for an hour. >> we'll be back. thank you so much, pat o'brien, great to see you. >> love pat o'brien. >> that does it for us here on "morning joe." craig melvin picks up coverage live from ferguson, missouri, after a short break. have a great day. i'm meteorologist bill karins. the heat and humidity is the story. we're watching temperatures soaring into the 90s. that's not the big deal. it's the humidity added to it. that gives you a heat index of

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44 hours ago i told you how organized and creasing levi lent incity ga instigators were inserting themselves and i asked that you come out and protest before the sun went down so they would not serve as shields for the law breakers in the night. tonight we saw a different dynamic. i believe there was a turning point made, and i think that turning point was made by the clergy, the activists, the volunteers and the men and women of law enforcement who partnered together to make a difference. we're making steps. they're not big giant steps, they're small steps. but those small steps will turn in